View Full Version : Some discipline for LEd players
Another of my threads that could be a Brainport issue as it is an idea, but on the other hand it is not about a new feature, but a modification, hence posting it here.
Out of my three characters, the last two (since NC2) are LEd. I am sure that more runners chose to keep their LE on as a result of the consequence-less pking. This have given the opportunity to many players to carry out what in other MMORPGs is called a killsteal.
Although I hate doing it myself, there are numerous LEd players who whould just appear all of a sudden and finish off the mob that you have been fighting yourself; if not kill it, then deliver as much damage to it as possible. The result is that you get less ncl and less XP when this happens.
My question that applies to players as much as KK peops is:
What if a non LEd runner can attack an LEd, but only be able to hurt the latter up to a heavy 80% of the LEd's HP? The LEd runner will have the right to defend himself by hitting back and cause damage to the former equal to a 20% of the non LEd's HP.
In this way, there are no deaths around (so LE is still valid), but the LEd player will have to retreat as he's now more vulnerable (having only 20% of HP left) to the mob they are fighting. Moreover, if the opposite happens (Non LEd player killsteals) then the LEd can attack first too but can only cause a mere 20% damage of the opponents HP.
To be honest I can't see why this could be wrong, as there is no way it can be exploited by any of the two sides. I know it is the nature of the stronger here but at least it is FAIR.
PS. No, I was never a bully back in school.... :angel:
I can see where your coming from with this idea, but, I personally don't think it'll solve anything. A near capped player losing 20% of his/her hp can recover that HP back in a matter of seconds.
However, just image a non-le'd player wanted to cause some grief. He goes up to le'd players, wipes out 80% of thier health (which depending on thier level, are gonna find it hardish to recover), and lets the mob finsh them off...
Like I said, good idea on paper, but it wont solve a thing
Chiefy
Exactly Chiefy. This is what I really mean; we do agree on that one.
The whole purpose is to discipline the LEd runners. This way you will be in a hurry to grow stronger yourself, so you can remove your LE and be able to go for glory. If you are just liching, then should be liable to face the consequences.
You can bully LEd players away from your target and force them to go and level somewhere else until they are strong enough to prove you wrong..
or kk can remove LE or disable it after lvl50 let's say.
EDIT: they=kk
The LE is really something that there can not be any half measures on - it's either in or it's out. You start allowing LE players to do 'some' PvP then your going to start having problems.
I can also see this being problematic to implement - Does this mean that 5 LE players can kill a non LE'd player? And that 2 non-LE'd players can kill 1 LE'd player?
If not, where / how would you define the stop and start points?
If so, then doesn't this just allow ganking by players who are not supposed to be involved in PvP?
Athon Solo
How do you get your mob outdamaged by an LE'ed player, theoretically a non LE'ed player should do more damage, unless your a total gimp?...
Exactly Chiefy. This is what I really mean; we do agree on that one.
The whole purpose is to discipline the LEd runners. This way you will be in a hurry to grow stronger yourself, so you can remove your LE and be able to go for glory. If you are just liching, then should be liable to face the consequences.
You can bully LEd players away from your target and force them to go and level somewhere else until they are strong enough to prove you wrong..
You've then got problems like how do you define leeching - There's a warbot in the middle of the zone and a non-LE'd rifleman is setting with the warbot on the clipping plane putting his rifle buff on or something. LE'd player comes along and sees the warbot, but the non-LE'd player can't see the LE'd player because he's beyond the clipping plane. The rifleman shoots the warbot at the same time as the LE'd player. Neither knew the other was there - are they leaching? Does the rifleman, if he now notices the LE'd player (weapon effect, missed shots, whatever), now have the right to take 80% of the LE'd players health?
Any time you even slightly ammend the rules on the LE your going to create a huge storm. IMO LE'd players should not be involved in combat what so ever if we are going to have them (IMO LE'd players cause too many problems such as spying, etc anyway)
Athon Solo
How do you get your mob outdamaged by an LE'ed player, theoretically a non LE'ed player should do more damage, unless your a total gimp?...
...Or you're just plain lower level, using a different type of weapon, etc.
Athon Solo
First of all, it is not how much damage is caused, but what HP is left. As soon as the LEd runner has 20% of HP left and the the non LEd 80% no further damage will be registered, no matter the ferocity of the attacks and the number of attackers. As simple as that.
Second, when the new generation (NC2) of LEd players grow to a 40ish 50ish rank, then you will see what I mean. Not only will they be able to nick a lot of XP points but also outpower the LEd ones (damage-wise)...
I put some thought behind this thread before I open it, though your input is really appreciated guys.
How do you get your mob outdamaged by an LE'ed player, theoretically a non LE'ed player should do more damage, unless your a total gimp?...
Not true spoon. I've seen players that are 2 star around recently that are still LE'd.
ArgieD Exactly Chiefy. This is what I really mean; we do agree on that one.
The whole purpose is to discipline the LEd runners. This way you will be in a hurry to grow stronger yourself, so you can remove your LE and be able to go for glory. If you are just liching, then should be liable to face the consequences.
You can bully LEd players away from your target and force them to go and level somewhere else until they are strong enough to prove you wrong..
It could work in theory, but I think as others have pointed out on this thread, it could be exploited. Some players would end up going around and griefing people with LE's in, which I don't think was the aim on this idea.
Chiefy
Well, kill steals today don't result in death you know. The player which got his kill stolen usually says 'FFS', he doesn't go all frenzy and start shooting at the stealer.
Well, kill steals today don't result in death you know. The player which got his kill stolen usually says 'FFS', he doesn't go all frenzy and start shooting at the stealer.
I made it clear that i am not talking about death. Just lowering the offender's HP that much that he/she will consider it twice before they killsteal... :)
You are aware that "kill theft" isn't a problem suffered purely by non-LE folks, right? During my time as a Law Enforcer user I almost constantly had non-LE people swiping "my" kills, even if they had no reason to do so (A three star person killing every Aggressor in sight? Understandable if they were on a mission, but after the fifteenth kill you do tend to wonder about their true intent....).
Besides, if you call kill theft a form of griefing then it's ridiculous how you can go on to suggest a "solution" like you already have.
I think this idea sounds more like a way to grief LE'ed players...
The only time I get KS'ed, is by vehicle teams doing uber damage to mobs and clearing out a zone in minutes(and not looting most of them)...
btw, KS'ing seems to be the norm in NC, maybe you should educate people in NC what KS'ing is.....
I think this idea sounds more like a way to grief LE'ed players...
Exactly!
Nothing worse than hiding behind the abuse of the LE advantages.
To LEd players: If you feel that a Non Led is KSing and you feel you can kick his butt, then you should be able to remove your LE and "do" him. It is your choice at the end of the day.
PS Mind you, 2/3 of my runners are still LEd. Should I wait until they become **/50-60 and then start pissing off everybody on sight? Even worse, imaging lots of people doing this 24/7!!!
What I was meaning to stress out is the 'FFS'. The anger ends with it! Theres no shooting what-so-ever. What your insinuating is that theres isn't nothing we'd rather do in the world than beat the crap out of the LEd player when he steals their kills? Were not that bad, the LEd steals my kill? The I steal his kill... and there ain't no one who can kill a mob faster than a MC tank, or stay out in the open bashing mobs than we can.
OMG Demon... you think I'm a maniac. A mad person :lol:
No I'm not. I say FFS myself; don't type it in local, I just think of it.
And you are right. My anger ends there, and this should be the case. I totally agree here, as this is only a computer game.
It is the prospect that we will end up having 5-6 LEd KSers in every leveling area of the game that drives me mad. Fair enough if you belong to the 9-14 year olds who have an eternity to level up (including the less busy early morning hours), but if you return from work and have 2-3 hours daily available, only to see that every place you go is heaving with LEd Ksers, then eventually lose interest.
It is fine at present to say occasionally a FFS, but I just feel that there will be lots of untouchable LEd **/50+ in 2-3 months from now...
I guess "Only time will tell" (quoted from the legendary Warren of X-Factor) :lol:
QuantumDelta
04-11-04, 14:45
Never gonna work.
And stop watching X-Factor.
Actually it was last year's POP IDOL. My fault.
Thing is this example works exactly the same in reverse
LE'd playing killing warbot, un LE'd player comes along and finishes it off safe in the knowledge that the LE'd player cant do anything about it
The problem here is kill stealing/leeching _NOT_ the LE chip......... personally I cant see what KK can/will do about it - some people will always play like an asshole!
I started LE char in NC2 ( other 3 from NC1 so no LE ) I kept le in not to steal kills or avoid PvP, in fact I like PvP and if some dudes half killed a mob then it's his i move on.
I like the element of looking over your shoulder always wondering if someone's gonna attack. Adds to the atmosphere :eek:
The reason I have it is Capped players ganking my lv 22 ass with there swirly :(
I would quite happily take my LE out if only players within a certain rank of mine could attack me then i would't have to worry about capped players with swirly's till I had a capped player with a swirly!
We would all have a fair chance in PvP. Other than seeing rank 60+ thinking 'O SHIT' and running to the sound of HL beam landing on yer head :(
No.
As stated above and elsewhere the LE has to be fully functional to work at all.
This would just open up hundreds of new griefing tactics both by and against LE users.
It is the prospect that we will end up having 5-6 LEd KSers in every leveling area of the game that drives me mad. Fair enough if you belong to the 9-14 year olds who have an eternity to level up (including the less busy early morning hours), but if you return from work and have 2-3 hours daily available, only to see that every place you go is heaving with LEd Ksers, then eventually lose interest.
Then you will REALLY hate this game when (if?) server fills up with new players... :rolleyes:
The way I see it, this game is nearly deserted... I can hunt warbots for 3 hours before I see single runner in the wastelands. Same goes for firemobs in the east.
Although I hate doing it myself, there are numerous LEd players who whould just appear all of a sudden and finish off the mob that you have been fighting yourself; if not kill it, then deliver as much damage to it as possible. The result is that you get less ncl and less XP when this happens.
Although I hate doing it myself, there are numerous non-LEd players who whould just appear all of a sudden and finish off the mob that you have been fighting yourself; if not kill it, then deliver as much damage to it as possible. The result is that you get less ncl and less XP when this happens.
...
It cuts both ways, this is by no means an LE-specific problem, and no, changing the LE to inflict damage is not an acceptable solution.
Not all of us with LEs have built cookie-cutter characters designed to defend against PKers. None of my characters are built for PvP or PKing. None of them will be able to defend themselves should they remove their LEs.
As for hunting, if I see a full health bar and no one else attacking, I'll go after a mob. If I do the most damage, I win. Simple. It's not my fault KK can't fix the clipping plane and I see no reason for players to penalize me for a problem that is squarely up to KK to fix.
superfresh
04-11-04, 16:02
No, outkilling mobs and so on is not an LE issue. It's really just a fact of life in NC. There are plenty of tucked away places to hunt. You just have to find them.
The issue I have is with what is appearing more and more like harrassment, say, hunting WB's with an LE, having other runners shelter and deflect what you are attacking, looting after you've hacked it, getting threatened with the "barrel and zone" thing, and then getting followed to a different location. I remember hunting WB's on a 31/25 spy, and getting this treatment from a capped PPU, APU, and Spy.
BTW whatever happened to roleplaying? These guys were FA. I thought FA was supposed to be intellectual and so on. Unless they were roleplaying FA's whose daddies didn't spank them enough...
Honestly I would just stay quiet and go about your business, and maybe try to find a good spot that few people go to. I've been hunting WB's in a zone where I've seen one other runner in the past two weeks.
The issue I have is with what is appearing more and more like harrassment, say, hunting WB's with an LEStop right there and take the LE comment out of your statement.
Get this through your collective heads: This is not an LE-specific problem. This is a problem due to people stealing hackable kills. KK has to fix the loot rights on hackable mobs such that they're not lootable by anyone but the max damage person for a period of 60 seconds, regardless of hacked or not. Right now, once an item is hacked, loot rights restrictions are completely removed.
Liebestoter
04-11-04, 18:21
How about we just get rid of LE's all together? :lol:
I'm sick of people talking crap from behind their LEs, saying "ill own u when im capped" then bringing their gimpy un-LE'd runners to come at me when I'm fighting.
Besides, having no LE encourages people to make friends, stick together and watch each other's asses.. at least in my opinion.
How about we just get rid of LE's all together? :lol:
I'm sick of people talking crap from behind their LEs, saying "ill own u when im capped" then bringing their gimpy un-LE'd runners to come at me when I'm fighting.
Besides, having no LE encourages people to make friends, stick together and watch each other's asses.. at least in my opinion.
Smack talking is not an LE problem either (they'd only do it from safezones instead) - Besides if you get offended by people calling you names.........we'll lets just say that life has a lot worse it can throw at you.....
-=Dredduk=-
04-11-04, 18:34
Your talking about led person stealing your kills!?!?
how about this then..
My nib spy rank 20 in aggies trying to do missions goes to kill a captain aggressor and has to hide heal/shoot/hide heal/shoot you get the drift... took me about 2mins trying to kill thia captain agressor...i get him to near half health...
guess what happens?
a near capped melee tanks comes in and kills him in one swing and kills all the rest of them! at that point im thinking "ffs" and another thing they do is they dont open the bodys... so the time another load of captain agressors spawn they have finished there mission and coming down with another one! and kill that when im half way through killing (which takes forever) and makes lvling for nibs crap.
Next time im gonna log my "allied alt after a warning to please not do it" and surprise them with a nice friendly holy lighting.
That really did piss me off and add 2 hours on to the time i could of lvled.
Liebestoter
04-11-04, 18:35
Smack talking is not an LE problem either (they'd only do it from safezones instead) - Besides if you get offended by people calling you names.........we'll lets just say that life has a lot worse it can throw at you.....
heh, I could care less, I just think since this is supposed to be a gritty cyberpunk world and at least semi realistic, if someone fronts you should be able to stomp their guts out. ;)
EDIT - besides, if they were talking shit from a safezone I'd just wait until they left, since there's like two safe zones now (thank god). If they wanna sit in TH and run off at the mouth, more power to them.
Why do you always have to shoot other players to make your opinion about XYZ clear? Ever tried talking to them?
As LE player you see a lot of grief towards you and there is a share of LE players "hiding" behind the LE to grief other players. Your idea, ArgieD, just opens up another way of griefing.
PS: LE doesn't hinder you to cap the damage of weapons / psi-modules. You can even reach 3 star with LE like every non-LE player (e.g. my droner gets into the high 80 as combat rank with a rare tech built Punisher and even caps the damage on it).
High Tower
04-11-04, 19:18
Stop right there and take the LE comment out of your statement.
Get this through your collective heads: This is not an LE-specific problem. This is a problem due to people stealing hackable kills. KK has to fix the loot rights on hackable mobs such that they're not lootable by anyone but the max damage person for a period of 60 seconds, regardless of hacked or not. Right now, once an item is hacked, loot rights restrictions are completely removed.
I agree i mean they have done this on non hackable mobs so why not add it to the hackable ones?
Liebestoter
04-11-04, 19:54
Why do you always have to shoot other players to make your opinion about XYZ clear? Ever tried talking to them?
As LE player you see a lot of grief towards you and there is a share of LE players "hiding" behind the LE to grief other players. Your idea, ArgieD, just opens up another way of griefing.
PS: LE doesn't hinder you to cap the damage of weapons / psi-modules. You can even reach 3 star with LE like every non-LE player (e.g. my droner gets into the high 80 as combat rank with a rare tech built Punisher and even caps the damage on it).
http://www.myimaginarylife.com/wayward/images/forums/violenceistheonlyanswer.jpg
There's my answer.
Violence is the only answer to this kind of stupidity. However, this is a bad example, because the person in question here is not an LE'd runner - he just always has a PPU stapled to his ass. But the idea remains - LE'd runners do lots of stupid stuff like follow people around during fights, feed info to their buddies, and make themselves generally obnoxious.
Which is why I let the gun do the speaking for me.
LE'd runners do lots of stupid stuff like follow people around during fights, feed info to their buddies, and make themselves generally obnoxious.
This has absolutely nothing to do with LEs. All of those things can also be done by using an alt in the relevant faction.
If someone wants to grief or just generally act like a tit there are far more ways to do it without an LE than with one, including all of the ones people in this thread want to claim only LEs do :lol: .
As for "trash-talk" 99.999999% of that is people yelling "I pwn you" and such like over TRADE - they clearly are NOT LE users.
Liebestoter
04-11-04, 20:07
Maybe so, but they use the LE'd alt to do this. I've seen it maybe 20+ times since moving from NC1 to NC2 - so at least once a day.
If they didn't have the LE, they'd be ded.
Freaky Fryd
04-11-04, 21:02
Nah...there are LE'd players that are designed purely for one purpose...
I have a character that I use for rare hunting, he's high level and LE'd, but his CON and other skills are setup purely for his purpose...not player combat.
I would lose against most players that would try to attack me...
If you ask most of the LEd droners why they are LEd it's because they are hunters not fighters, and so much the fun it is some peoples hobby to just kill non LEd droners when they encounter them.
With the new breed of assholes you can't really hunt anywhere without being in danger because there are some clowns running around killing anything they see just because they are bored. I think the LE restrictions should be lifted so much that you can poke it in any level (tho taking it out over level 30 is like lomming or something, losing exp equal to 10-20 lomm pills).
My main hobby today in NC is hunting, and ofcourse friends, I can't be assed to build perfect con setups for pvp on my all chars just because I might be attacked when I'm hunting. And you people are allways saying "if you don't want to PvP don't take the LE out" well if you remove the LE there are shitloads of players who are not going to leave the HQs or TH. And DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT LEd PLAYERS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT CAUSE GRIEF? oh come on, grow up lil timmy, if you take 100% LEd and 100% non-LEd maybe 10% of LEd players are those so called griefers when 70% of non-LEd players are griefers.
If a LEd player is stealing your kills, change the zone.
My solution to players who killsteal me continually is to follow them around and shelter/deflect every mob they fight and hope that the mob kills them.
If nothing else it'll at least slow them down considerably to the point they'll get pissed and scream about how they'll report you to every GM on the server and then call the president or communist dictator (depending on their country, though in USA i guess they're still the same, fu republicans! *cough... anyway..*)
After they threaten you repeatedly they'll eventually get frustrated and go elsewhere.
edit:
It's been said by so many players I can't count em all that this tactic isn't against any policies.. but if you feel it is.. that's fine.. have a GM tell me, so far I've gotten no official comments.
70% of non-LEd players are griefers.
Yes, but you can attack and fend off those non-LEd griefers. You can't do that to the LEd ones(directly).
superfresh
05-11-04, 11:48
Respectfully, are people asking for a solution to the fact that other players out-damage them?
The Wastelands are ENORMOUS. I walked a droner from DoY to the MB and it took over an hour, and in that time I saw as many 80/80+ firemobs and WB's in places I hadn't been as the popular hunting spots.
There is a simple solution to getting out-damaged. Work your way up to more damage or go elsewhere. Personally I don't attack anything that someone else is working on, but if someone does it's hardly something worth addressing here IMO.
People who are concerned about kill rates might want to stop clinging to the MB, F-08, CRP, and Grant... These are great spots for lower level runners who need teams but...
Hack/looting rights need to be made a priority. If I solo a WB and hack it I deserve what's inside, not some froot loop who happens to emerge from behind a tree at an opportune moment.
If a LEd player is stealing your kills, change the zone.
MaGnolia mate, without meaning to be "fundamentally against you", this is what I was referring to earlier on.
Imagine having a few LEd runners on every hunting spot.... Pure misery I guess, and unavoidably more runners will have to jump in this bandwagon of KSing....
To be perfectly honest, it would be justified (and safe) for LEd runners having to go farther away from the GRs rather the non-LEd ones. I can't accept that I (non-LEd) will be the one having to go away because of a KSer. I'm still convinced that there is nothing wrong with a partial damage of HP of LEd & non-LEd; It's not always black or white. LE DOES NOT have to be fully operating....
ArgieD, I don't mean that you have to go because you are non-LEd, I have nothing against non-LEd or LEd people, it's just to show some spine and be the better man. Don't get too worked up because of them.
Besides, I do alot of hunting and I can easily find places with no LEd players around, but then comes the another problem, other non-LEd players that have asshole so big that it creates a vacuumm and sucks all the intelligence out of their body. (but that is for another thread)
Besides, I do alot of hunting and I can easily find places with no LEd players around, but then comes the another problem, other non-LEd players that have asshole so big that it creates a vacuumm and sucks all the intelligence out of their body. (but that is for another thread)
Well, then I have no other option but:
1) asking you where these LEd-free hunting places are
2) bringing tons of mofo-drones with me to kick the ass out those holes you mentioned ;)
PS Though, it will have to be LOTS of drones due to those bloody bugs.. Boy, it hurts your pocket getting them ressed and csted :mad:
I often don't see a single person when I go out solo hunting, I stay out in the wastelands for hours and never see a soul. The game is huge, I don't know how it is compared to NC1 but maybe I just have that advantage of not knowing the old good spots so I go where I want to and end up finding new ones...
Imagine having a few LEd runners on every hunting spot.... Pure misery I guess, and unavoidably more runners will have to jump in this bandwagon of KSing....
So now you're saying it a conspiracy? That all the LEd players are somehow plotting against you? Funny thing - most LEs I meet while hunting are nothing like that. In fact most are happy to either team up or agree some way to split the zone/kills up. Other than in the overcamped noob grounds like J_01, I_06, F_08 and CRP I can't remember more than a couple of real KS problems - ie someone following people around being a dick. Even in those zones it wasn't always an LEd runner. I don't consider someone taking one kill and you message them and sort it out to be a real problem. I've had MANY more cases of griefers and asshats shooting hunters in the back while wounded or hacking because it's the only kill they can get.
I'm still convinced that there is nothing wrong with a partial damage of HP of LEd & non-LEd; It's not always black or white. LE DOES NOT have to be fully operating....
If you really can't see how easy that is to exploit there's something very wrong with you. The LE has enough downsides already without idiotic ideas like this.
Here's a solution which doesn't require any extra features, if you don't want to go elsewhere: Get some friends together and out-kill the people annoying you - they'll eventually get bored and go elsewhere themselves.
Athon Solo
THE_TICK!!!!
05-11-04, 21:33
I started LE char in NC2 ( other 3 from NC1 so no LE ) I kept le in not to steal kills or avoid PvP, in fact I like PvP and if some dudes half killed a mob then it's his i move on.
I like the element of looking over your shoulder always wondering if someone's gonna attack. Adds to the atmosphere :eek:
The reason I have it is Capped players ganking my lv 22 ass with there swirly :(
I would quite happily take my LE out if only players within a certain rank of mine could attack me then i would't have to worry about capped players with swirly's till I had a capped player with a swirly!
We would all have a fair chance in PvP. Other than seeing rank 60+ thinking 'O SHIT' and running to the sound of HL beam landing on yer head :(
most fun i ever had was gankin some gay ****** with my level 48 apu and his SWIRLY tank...hunted him all the time after that day...it was a great feeling..:P
There's never gonna be a way of dealing with problems like this except for getting an administrator to do something about it. Freedom is what makes this game good so you can't really start removing it.
or just bring back the LE - killing barrel :p
solved all my problems of those "twatters" stealing my warbies :lol:
or just bring back the LE - killing barrel :p
solved all my problems of those "twatters" stealing my warbies :lol:
....so you openly admit to using exploits to kill someone who had opted out of Player vs Player combat? That's just plain stupid.
he was waiting next to my warbie as i was killing it...then he started the hack right away... he was asking for it!
he was waiting next to my warbie as i was killing it...then he started the hack right away... he was asking for it!
You completely circumvented a mechanic that was designed solely to keep people from being involved in Player vs Player combat.
Whatever he was doing, and however you were provoked, are irrelevant; you still knowingly and willingly exploited the game mechanics to kill someone who had opted out of direct, "physical" confrontation with other players.
bah!
go and chew on a brick! i can't be arsed to explain this.
bah!
go and chew on a brick! i can't be arsed to explain this.
What is there to explain?
Yes, the Law Enforced Runner provoked you, but you used an exploit to get back at him. That wasn't called for, nor was it on the same level as a mere Warbot "theft".
so how was i supposed to fight my battle against him?
so how was i supposed to fight my battle against him?
You don't fight against Law Enforcer users; that's the whole point of having the damn thing installed in the first place.
If you feel someone is "stealing" your kills, then move on to another area. Or if they keep following you and going out of their way to do so, then report them for harassment. What you don't do is exploit the game code simply to get some poorly thought out revenge.
Also you'd have had first access rights, giving you a much easier hack for the first 30 seconds or so. LE or not they still have to wait their turn :)
i've seen LE'd ppl drive their hovertecs and park them in front of the UG entrance during op fights. kinda sux when you can't blow up the bike. :(
go and chew on a brick! i can't be arsed to explain this.There's nothing to explain. You exploited. It's an exploit that was posted in the announcements forum as against the rules. Regardless of the situation, killing LEs using an exploit is a bannable offense.
There are channels in place for complaints about in-game behavior. If you don't like what someone is doing, report it to KK.
Also you'd have had first access rights, giving you a much easier hack for the first 30 seconds or so.Once the hack is complete the looting rights expire. The next person to open the warbot gets the loot. It's also fairly easy to hack a Warbot with 100 skill.
Jesterthegreat
07-11-04, 12:15
Also you'd have had first access rights, giving you a much easier hack for the first 30 seconds or so. LE or not they still have to wait their turn :)
a WB can easily be hacked without loot rights.
if an LE user spec's enouh hack (which he can... he doesnt need 100% combat efficiancy) he can hack it first time even if he did no damage at all.
once he hacks it loot rights go to him, and the only way to stop him looting is trading him, closing trade and looting the WB :p (after he has opened it)
Best trick IMO is to not hack.
Most loot-thieves don't try to hack themselves they just hammer on the right-click to try and beat you into the WB after you've hacked it.
After you drop the bot run over, get out your hack tool and just stand there and see how long it takes before they figure it out.
This is also a good way to catch morons that gank people while hacking.
Jesterthegreat
07-11-04, 14:18
Best trick IMO is to not hack.
Most loot-thieves don't try to hack themselves they just hammer on the right-click to try and beat you into the WB after you've hacked it.
After you drop the bot run over, get out your hack tool and just stand there and see how long it takes before they figure it out.
This is also a good way to catch morons that gank people while hacking.
after you hack its only openable by you for like 30 secs...
:edit: the 30 secs is a guess tbh... but if you hack it you have loot rights on it
THE_TICK!!!!
07-11-04, 14:22
You completely circumvented a mechanic that was designed solely to keep people from being involved in Player vs Player combat.
I agree with this.
Whatever he was doing, and however you were provoked, are irrelevant; you still knowingly and willingly exploited the game mechanics to kill someone who had opted out of direct, "physical" confrontation with other players.
not neccesarily true...unfortunately you are stickin up for someone who is using the game mehanics..TO THERE PERSONAL Benifet( or however that is spelled) so in all reality they are exploiting as well...but i didn't hear you say anything about that..you say they opted out of pvp..but they are doing the one thing in the game that is SURE to cause a pvp responce :wtf:
Jesterthegreat
07-11-04, 14:24
I agree with this.
not neccesarily true...unfortunately you are stickin up for someone who is using the game mehanics..TO THERE PERSONAL Benifet( or however that is spelled) so in all reality they are exploiting as well...but i didn't hear you say anything about that..you say they opted out of pvp..but they are doing the one thing in the game that is SURE to cause a pvp responce :wtf:
whether the LE player exploited is debatable...
that the non-LE'd player exploited is fact.
after you hack its only openable by you for like 30 secs...
:edit: the 30 secs is a guess tbh... but if you hack it you have loot rights on itSince when?
Hacked mobs used to be anyone's after the hack.
In fact if that loophole is now closed then the solution is to do more damage and/or learn to hack quicker.
/edit @The_Tick - Two wrongs don't make a right. Both parties have the capability to file a support ticket.
Jesterthegreat
07-11-04, 14:29
Since when?
Hacked mobs used to be anyone's after the hack.
In fact if that loophole is now closed then the solution is to do more damage and/or learn to hack quicker.
i cant rmeember exactly when... but for a long time.
if you come out of hack to find the item in use then the hacker hacked it quicker
after you hack its only openable by you for like 30 secs...
Yeah. I don't know about all this "spam right click and you get to open it before the hacker gets to" stuff. I've tried this with a friend while we were hunting warbots. He would hack and I would spam right click in various ways. No way whatsoever let me into the Warbot. And I tried many many many times over the course of the night. It would go from saying "damn. locked." to the others have loot priviledges message after he hacked it, even with the best right click spamming and even if I did the most damage.
Yeah. I don't know about all this "spam right click and you get to open it before the hacker gets to" stuff. I've tried this with a friend while we were hunting warbots. He would hack and I would spam right click in various ways. No way whatsoever let me into the Warbot. And I tried many many many times over the course of the night. It would go from saying "damn. locked." to the others have loot priviledges message after he hacked it, even with the best right click spamming and even if I did the most damage.
Well, if that's been fixed then what exactly is the point of this thread?
Well, if that's been fixed then what exactly is the point of this thread?
Well, I dunno, maybe I just missed something. I don't log in just to do this to people, so I may have missed one of the ancient chinese secrets of loot stealing someone else's hack.
Jesterthegreat
07-11-04, 15:01
Well, I dunno, maybe I just missed something. I don't log in just to do this to people, so I may have missed one of the ancient chinese secrets of loot stealing someone else's hack.
the secret is: hack better / quicker...
i dont see any real point in this either. wait til the LE user hacks and a WB spawn by him, then s/d the WB and watch the spy almost die in hack, then die as he tries desperatly to fight / run :p
Well, if that's been fixed then what exactly is the point of this thread?
The point of this thread you....Jernau is not who's got the hacking rights over a warbot, but whether the LE should be fully applicable in all situations or some minimal damage could be implemented.
PS Nothing personal matey, but from a previous post of yours, within the same thread, I have just noticed that you must be highly irritating the least. What's the matter with you?
The point of this thread you....Jernau is not who's got the hacking rights over a warbot, but whether the LE should be fully applicable in all situations or some minimal damage could be implemented.
The problem with allowing damage is it's a big exploit magnet. Say you allow even 10% damage : that's enough for para or leg-shots to almost completely freeze you to the spot, the mob is still aggro on you and the other guy is free to shelter it so you can't kill it. Just one example, I can think of others and I'm sure there are more "inventive" people than I when it comes to these things.
The LE breaks fundamentally the minute you allow even the smallest loophole.
I'm not saying loot-stealing doesn't happen but IME it only happens in a few easily avoided places which are often busy anyway meaning less kills and more PKers. It's very easy to go elsewhere and avoid ALL of those problems. I've also had many more cases of being shot in the hack than of LEs stealing kills.
Making this out to be an LE issue is wrong. If the looting rules are faulty or can be improved then suggest how and I'm sure people will listen. Confusing that by making sweeping and innacurate statements about LE users is bound to cause upset and detract from any valid point you have.
PS Nothing personal matey, but from a previous post of yours, within the same thread, I have just noticed that you must be highly irritating the least. What's the matter with you?
Nothing serious that I know of. If I caused offence it wasn't intended.
Now that was a good post. You were not only constructive, but also objective (providing figures and reasons).
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