View Full Version : Silent Hunter - Can you fix it pls
___T-X____
01-11-04, 17:28
Why doesnt it fire when I press fire, its makes all these mechanical noises, tries zooming in and out in 3rd person - which it cant do, so it halves your movement reflexes, gives you an unzoomed tunnel-vision which blanks your health out aswell - and all this is still happening after tapping the button for 5-10 seconds while its not fired....whats wrong with it ?
Plus its no better in 1st person.
Can you fix it so that when you press fire, it just fires.
Its unreliable to the point that its not worth using currently - which surely cant be the idea behind a rifle thats supposed to be used when youve finally got that 'clear & available' shot.
Thx for reading.
Darth Slayer
01-11-04, 17:33
Don't think it's just the SH all sniper rifles are bugged. I've got throu 1 clips of ammo shooting a Launcher clop. Damage numbers rolling of it but no damage at all being registered. Bug seems to come and go.
Scorpius.
Yes, it's fucked up. The zoom is on the same button as fire, you just hold it down longer. Noone understands why this was done when the sniper rifles got new models and ammo.
Not user friendly at all, please find another way of zooming.
i cant see why you cant just use the numpad like normal...
Oh.. one extra thing; you can't use your SH as soon as it's drawn, you have to wait a bit before it can fire. Might be a balancing thing, but together with zomm being on the same button as fire it can get a bit "interesting" when you are trying desperatly to shoot.
Yeah i dont use sniper rifles because the fact whats the point due to clipping? lol and because i really dont like the aiming system for them.
Hmm....out of interest heres a little suggestion for it....
How about make the sniper rifles 'Halo Style' (im using Halo as its the only game i know that does this) but why not have to press the num pad to zoom into normal zoom level and then press it again (when using sniper rifles) to zoom into the max zoomage of them.
Im aware that doesnt make much scence and the english is shite, lol but you get the idea?
The whole implementation of sniper rifles has been screwed from day one.
The damage was messed up when they were first introduced with Patch #179 back in April 2003 - it was damage over time, like poison or fire spells.
As part of what would seem to be a relatively simple thing to fix in May 2003 with Patch #181 they changed the ammo type to 7.62mm. As a welcome bonus they also changed the icon/model from Street Rifle to what we have now.
However- not content with merely fixing the problems and leaving us happy - someone in their infinite wisdom decided it would be fun to fuck them right back up again, but in new and amusing ways :- the single damage calculation per firing cycle [fucks up because of locational runner damage cap] - *awful* fire and scope control method.
To quote myself back then :-
The SH has numerous problems :-
RoF is way too low ... 24/min at absolute cap ... and we all know how gimped you'd have to be to achieve that - something like 205 RC.
It's 2km or whatever stated range is utterly pointless due to the 500m clipping plane.
Ridiculous scope/fire controls. It's the only weapon in the game where you can't just click to fire a second shot again - you have to mentally time 2.6 seconds, or it does the Spy equivalent of a Monk "fizzle". And the zoom control on the fire key too ? *boggles* The mind that came up with this freak show system and thought it would be useful is a truly scary one.
Only 3 shots per clip. When the absolute minimum is 4 shots for a kill this is incredibly annoying.
Heavy damage potential not utilised. Due to the damage dealt being in some manner proportional to the targets health you are effectively wasting the extra damage not calculated.
The max damage per hit seems to a little over 150.
150 on an unarmoured APU, 150 on a spy, 150 on an armoured tank, 150 on a PE. Damageboost doesn't matter a damn - most you will see is that slightly over 150 number.
Then there's also the blacked out reticle surround etc. It's annoying, but I guess I can sort of see the point to that one.
also
was there ever a reason given for the changing of the way sniper rifle scope and firing control works ?
It's not in keeping with any other weapon in the game and is massively aggravating as it is now.
The only reason I can think of is to reduce rate of fire ... but since they cap at 24 anyway I never really saw how that was an issue.
Never got an answer, unsurprisingly :rolleyes:
Later posts refined and quantified the nature of the locational cap problem further.
Then in December 2003 Patch#193 arrived.
Ammo pack size went from 12 to 16 for 4 shots per clip.
This was at least a small step in the right direction but the overall effect in reality turned out to be tiny.
Haven't got the exact number to hand because the old Test Server patch threads have been archived away somewhere non searchable but it was around 6% dmg per minute after all the factors were calculated in.
Patch #195 landed February 2004
Despite all the past threads and posts and calculations and proofs and suggestions about why this would be the worst and most pointless way to address things ... the dmg per shot was increased.
Made a minor (but still *very* inadequate) difference to mobs ... made *ZERO* difference to PvP.
I won't even start on the Spirit Mod fiasco other than to say "I told you so" to certain people when that idea first came up on the forum almost 7 months prior to their creation :p
(sorry - couldn't help myself)
So - there you have the history of the sorry tale of sniper rifles :D
The `delay` in first firing is due to the overall low rate of fire stat ... 24/min max = 2.5 seconds per shot.
You get a similar effect with some of the low RoF tank weapons.
For what it's worth - the zoom toggle on the 1st sniper rifle control method was on right mouse button rather than keypad. It worked absolutely fine - to this day I can still think of no sane reason why it was munged into the current hamfisted state.
Well said, lol
/me wants Rifle week, hell no infact just 'Sniper Rifle Week' just to get them GOOD
/me wants Rifle week, hell no infact just 'Sniper Rifle Week' just to get them GOOD
Sniper week would be nice. Snipers have lots of problems, like the problems with Silent Hunter as describes above, but also problems with not being a real snipers when the clipping range is so short that a tank kan snipe right back at you with a laser cannon if detected and problems with game updating characters position making characters far away (like those a sniper tries to kill) sometimes not be visable and sometimes jump around all over the place.
Another thing that would be nice would be a sniper PA (lots of cammo), not that it would do any real good since noone have vegetation turned on but snipers would at least look more like snipers. If tanks that doesn't really need it since they are close range fighters have cammo so should snipers.
Let me demonstrate:
TANK
http://medlem.spray.se/sniperteam/skjutning.grg.jpg
SNIPER
http://medlem.spray.se/sniperteam/sniper.7.jpg http://medlem.spray.se/sniperteam/sniper.buisness_end1.jpg
Its droner week now, and the drones have hellova more problems that you and your sniper rifles have ever had :p
I like sniping and I like the scope zoom thingy, I like the damage the guns do (tho those could always do more damage if you ask from me :rolleyes:) and I like the RoF. Sniper rifle aint something that you shoot like a shotgun or something.
Ok off to burn so stuuuf.
Right-click-to-zoom would be lovely.
___T-X____
01-11-04, 22:19
Some great points from Kurai and others which really somes up how I feel about being a 'sniper' - I agree with a simple temporary fix to move it Number-Pad Scope, Increase its Damage by 25%, and for it to give somekind of injury, ie : radiation, burning, etc.
Its probably right not show the health bar or any indication thats your being attacking while try to snipe - but surely that should come with a Damage output reward. Whether or not you agree with the DMG increase I'd rather just see it fixed.
I dont see that as a permanent fix just a step in the right direction.
Its a shame for me choosing a snipers-setup and playing it as it gives the sense of the snipers in Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan, but without the satisfaction of ever getting the kill.
lol you all suck, it isn't that hard to use as it is now :rolleyes:
I'd love to have the ammo actually display "4" instead of "16." The blackness surrounding the screen is also annoying, have it zoom like the scope ammo mod does (no black border, numpad, and HUD remains.) Nerf the damage slightly, but increase the ROF. It will be hard to balance but would be rather interesting. Increase the mag size to 5 rounds. The best example I can think of is the bolt animation and pause in between shots on the Counter-Strike AWP. (I hate Counter-Strike, though.) Another nice idea would be to have the reticle move around semi-randomly, realistically. Make the rank of mobs and players display at any range. Remove the plasticy "mechanical" noise. Make the scope fade in from black, but not too slowly. Make it possible to walk faster, but increase the camera bobbing and throw the reticle all over the place. Make the cone of fire increase drastically after each shot, and give it an interesting recoil effect.
Oh, and give it a firing sound other than the shotgun's. I don't like hearing the pump sound after each shot.
argh, i hate the random xhair movement thing, tis why i dont play much AA
The problem with fixing snipers is that most things have to do with with how the engine works; short clipping range and character position updates at distance.
One thing that would help snipers would be to give runners the ability to lie down, i'm sure there must be some suport for it in the engine. Perhaps the combination lieing down and having a heavily comuflaged sniper "PA" could give som additional bonus making a sniper hard to spot, removing them from local or something.
Militaryman
02-11-04, 03:28
A few thoughts i've had for fixing sniper's..
1) While using the scope on a sniper rifle, use a different pvp damage cap.
Right now as it is, it takes 4 shots to kill someone, In a sniper's line of work anything more then 1 shot and they would be dead. (pretty much the way it is now..)
I can see close range and moving while not using the scope of the rifle, using a lower damage cap so it wont be so overpowered.. But at 2,000m It's really not asking THAT much.
You could raise it so that It caps at 80% of the target's health. Hell maybe make it so that you can kill people in 1 shot.
2) Sniper Camo PA. I would love it to have a special action of laying you down and making you partially invisible to at least blend you in with your surroundings somewhat. Right now with the way the landscape works, it's pretty much impossible for me to stay hidden from anyone.
I would love a prone state 2,000m away from a city and pick people off as they leave to hunt.
3) Change of Ammo, Max Clip, and Modification Allowance.
Right now I think that using 4 bullets per shot is annoying, especially when it's a physical rifle. I can understand a laser rifle using a bit extra energy as in 4 packs of ammo for 3 shot, or something.. but 1 bullet should always equal 1 shot.. Ammo could easily be changed to a higher caliber, more armor piercing version. That way you can set ammo cap of the rifle's to something reasonable, Hell it could be possible to allow 1 shot per load, if you raised the damage cap to allow 1 shot hits. I dont care about having a low rate of fire as long as you make the 1 shot worth it.
The Max clip of the Sniper Rifle's is debatable. Personally I would love to see a 1 shot bolt action standard on rifles. But allow them to modify the loading mechanisim to allow semi-automatic fire. Perhaps up to 3, 6, or even 10 shots. (all ranging in price and rareness.)
As for modifications, I would really love to see modifications for the scope itself. Modifications for heat vision, night vision, extra range, anything that is more sniper like. I would love for it to show you the targets in the area by heat to make aiming a bit easier.
4) Rifle inconveniances.. Right now it's very annoying for it not to show the vital stats of the player while looking through the scope. You cant see the chat at all either. I know you should have to concentrate but that should not interfere with your communications or knowledge of if you've been shot or not..
5) Comparing to other professions.. Right now Sniper damage is on par with APU damage, however with one major difference. Right now Sniper Rifles have an absolute cap of 24/m Which is great for a sniper rifle, however APUs have caps of 120/m+ which enables them to shoot them off at rates of 1 second per shot, if not more.. While still being able to do the same damage per shot as a Sniper Rifle. I dont agree with this. ;)
Tanks have the ability to use shocking weapons in both melee and heavy combat. This seriously screws up the enemy's ability to run away to the point it guarantee's them a victory if they catch an opponent they can kill by themselves. When a Sniper shoots someone they only lose 25% health at the most, and have full capacity to run away. I think a removal of the sniper damage cap (when looking through the scope) should be raised.
6) Balancing issues for Snipers... The ability of doing so much damage while looking through that scope and having so many options should come to a disadvantage.. The disadvantage would be the high price of the high caliber ammo (for non-recycling charactors). Also you would be totally unaware on what's happening around you. I think that looking through the scope should only be possible when laying prone or kneeling at a window inside of a city.. Exiting the scope should take a small amount of time to accomplish, say 2-5 seconds. This way when you are caught they will have a window of opertunity where you have no reaction at all.
You could perhaps give a damage boost to players that are shooting at a prone individual.
7) Things I would love to see in... besides the above changes I would love to see that when you kill someone their dog-tag would show up in your inventory. Right now it is very inconveniant to run down to where you kill someone just to loot their tag. I feel that doing this would promote more assassination missions from people, to where you can bring back their dog-tag in proof of the kill. (would be especially more difficult if you finally made it possible for us to fire at the distance it says we can)
Love the ideas, Militaryman.
give the rifle some love sirs
and maybe the first love while we are at it.
you missed 1 thing - no more curvy bullet crap, make it nigh-instant hit a la the pain easer.
you missed 1 thing - no more curvy bullet crap, make it nigh-instant hit a la the pain easer.
It's funny to watch that big yellow fireball of a bullet fly through the air at half the speed of smell.
___T-X____
02-11-04, 12:35
Nice ideas Military Man.
Although im shooting myself in the foot here (pardon the pun), make the Rifle Dex 125, so its out of reach to anyone but pure Dex spies.
While we're on the subject of silent hunters ...
I WANT MY 4th SLOT BACK
:-/ its modded with a spirit mod, obviously theres no ammo for it and its not used anymore. and as a result my 4th slot is a complete waste of fucking space.... please fix this KK
I always had this problem with sniper rifles..
I had also started a thread mentioning both problems (clicking noise and damage being displayed but not registered).
Fortunately, there is a way -that works- that fixes only one of them; the damage bug.
As soon as you realise that the mob's health does not decrease despite the damage shown, simply change the weapon you use, then shoot at the mob once. Then back to the sniper rifle. Damage is now registered.
If you don't have a backup weapon a single punch will do. The sniper rifle damage bug mostly occurs when a spell is used prior to the sniper rifle is fired (although it can happen all of a sudden).
Remember: just don't panic, change weapon, use it once and back to the rifle (I only hope you 're not up against a warbot or something of similar calibre) :wtf:
StealthyAssassi
02-11-04, 13:54
Im not sure I remember correctly, but I think the engine doesnt even show if you kneel down at great distances. You will be seen as if you were standing.
Im not sure I remember correctly, but I think the engine doesnt even show if you kneel down at great distances. You will be seen as if you were standing.It does draw you as a "shadow" which always looks the same, but it turns into a midget if you crouch.
with the way updates go one shot kills or even 2 shot kills would be totally lame. You could get into cover and be hidden but to the other person you might still actually be visable and hittable. BLAM you're dead. But then again the whole percent thing of health sucks also. I don't think it's an easy soloution as one wrong adjustment and the sniper rifle would be totally overpowered and then you'd have all the bandwagon people jumping ship to overpowered snipers ala flavor of the month/week.
I've never tried a sniper rifle . .are you saying that you hold down the fire button and then it zooms? andthen you release and it fires? If so that reminds me of Descent 3.
I've never tried a sniper rifle . .are you saying that you hold down the fire button and then it zooms? andthen you release and it fires? If so that reminds me of Descent 3.
Actually you keep the fire button pressed until the rifle zooms in to the wished level. Nothing happens when you release. You just find yourself fighting in scoped view. After you carry out your business, you need to press the fired button down until it zooms out again.
Unfortunately, if you have to reload while scoped, the scope will disappear returning you for a few seconds to the normal view, then back to the scoped view at once. This causes you sometimes to lose focus and, as a result, mobs are now closer to you, bearing the relevant consequences.
I don't think many people like this feature much, but I do have to admit that it is nice to the eye, when you see the damage registered per shot, along with the dramatic decrease of the target's HP.
Sniper Camo PA. I would love it to have a special action of laying you down and making you partially invisible to at least blend you in with your surroundings somewhat. Right now with the way the landscape works, it's pretty much impossible for me to stay hidden from anyone.
Perhaps snipers and droners could share some kind of camouflage item? They both have the same problem of staying hidden to be able to do their job.
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