View Full Version : Compensation for Rollback
I think KK should give us compensation for the rollback on the database.
Compensation in the form of giving everyone X amount of levels to all stats.
There should be average taken of the amount of XP that players earn in an hour and for every hour of rollback there should be that much XP given to each player upon reentry.
Look at this for examples. I pay for cable TV, if my cable goes out due to the fault of my cable company or natural disaster. I am reimbursed for that time and most of the time then some. What is to say that a pay to play game should not do the same.
Anyone with me on this?
Dribble Joy
22-10-04, 00:41
Not gonna happen really.
I think KK should give us compensation for the rollback on the database.
Compensation in the form of giving everyone X amount of levels to all stats.
There should be average taken of the amount of XP that players earn in an hour and for every hour of rollback there should be that much XP given to each player upon reentry.
Look at this for examples. I pay for cable TV, if my cable goes out due to the fault of my cable company or natural disaster. I am reimbursed for that time and most of the time then some. What is to say that a pay to play game should not do the same.
Anyone with me on this?Umm... no? At best, I'd support KK giving me a free day of play. This is just too much. What about the people that ended up not playing during the rollback time? Free XP for them? Even if it *could* be done (which I doubt, at least easily), I'd still say no.
--Stryfe
yah but when a cable company goes out what about all those ppl that didnt watch TV or use the cable internet they get free stuff for something they werent even aware of.
so saying that its not good to give free xp to those that didnt use the service isnt a good arguement
I wouldn't object to an extra day's worth of play being added to my account, free money is always good. The rollback didn't affect me at all though, I was asleep or at work during all the troubles.
I wouldn't object to an extra day's worth of play being added to my account, free money is always good.A whole $0.50 USD (per account) though? That's what a free day of play equates to in terms of our monthly subscription fee.
thebee, I'm not saying the idea of compensation is a bad thing, I'm simply saying that the method you propose would not be in the best interest of the game, love it or hate it.
--Stryfe
i dont believe that a free day or money is good compensation. As it may appeal to those that didnt play for that time and maybe some of those that did. It for the most part wouldnt be good for those that may have taken time out of thier real lives, vaction day at work, hooky from school, and such to be given soemthing that they have to do all over again.
Time = Money
This is a given that all people accept and live by. However in a virtual word money really means nothing. The real currency in this virtual world is XP.
So it is true to say that
Time = XP
NO SORRY.
time = time
sometimes time can be more important than money but time is just time
and time can be used to earn money
but time = money is just a saying its not literal.....
i dont believe that a free day or money is good compensation. As it may appeal to those that didnt play for that time and maybe some of those that did. It for the most part wouldnt be good for those that may have taken time out of thier real lives, vaction day at work, hooky from school, and such to be given soemthing that they have to do all over again.
Time = Money
This is a given that all people accept and live by. However in a virtual word money really means nothing. The real currency in this virtual world is XP.
So it is true to say that
Time = XPBy the rules of substitution, I agree. :D
Next question though: How would you go about calculating that XP? And how would you go about applying it over probably 1000 player accounts, and probably at least 3000 characters?
--Stryfe
This thread crops up every role back
Not gonna happen really.
I concur ;)
Easily done
Take a look at the transaction logs. Most MMOs are made with a logging feature that tracks player login time,duration of play, player class, and amount of XP gained. These values are used to create reports about what players level how compared to each other and what is a mean or average norm for thier individual classes. Its also used to catch cheaters because of they see a spike for a player in XP that goes way about the even normal 'max' XP played on average power players they can look to see if the player is exploiting a bug.
so given that little bit of info its easy to fgiure out how much XP is gained in an hour cause the data is already there. then we go thru the database and do something like this....using the assumption that the db is SQL based....would work with anything else as well.
FreeXP = number of hours of roll back * average XP per hour
UPDATE tblPlayersXP SET INT=(INT+FreeXP), DEX=(DEX+FreeXP), STR=(STR+FreeXP), PSI=(PSI+FreeXP), CON=(CON+FreeXP)
You could also break it down to an average and do it on a per class basis so as not to give a ton of XP to a players stat that is not his main stat....i can post that formula and sql query as well.
NS_CHROME54
22-10-04, 01:09
not gonna happen
im not asking if its going to happen btw ....
im asking if it something you think you would like to have happen
___T-X____
22-10-04, 01:17
not a prayer mate
Not gonna happen really.
So true.
yes but KK NEEDS to do soemthing in the form of reimbursement though
QuantumDelta
22-10-04, 02:59
Well, it shows you've never played an MMORPG Before.
It wont happen, never will, not with any game.
OCCASIONALLY Some Games (And even KK in the past) has loot and xp levels raised server side for a small period after one of these, but otherwise, it never, ever happens and probably never will.
Actually I think some have offered more than upped loot rates when things were particularly bad - not like this weeks rollback but like last Saturn failure (I can't think of any other game that's done anything as pathetic or incompetant as that).
None have while I've played so I'm not sure on details though tbh.
Didn't SW:G give people free playtime shortly after the launch because it went so badly? I know someone did around that time.
IMO if there's an outage or rollback of more than 24 hours within a week the company should offer a day of free-play for every 24 hours (or part thereof) the fault covers. ie :
24 hours of downtime/rollback = a day free
2x12hour rollbacks within 7 days = a day free
25 hours = 2 days free
etc.
Of course no MMO will do this while none of the others do. As soon as one of the big ones decides to play fair they will all have to. This is one of those things I see as being a landmark the MMO market has yet to reach on it's road to being truly mass market.
what does ever having played an mmorpg before have anything to do with if you would like to have this happen. and you are actually wrong SWG like the previous post stated add free play time. Runescape gave out XP, RoD gave out cash(game cash), there are definitely instances of MMOs giving out to compensate for losses.
but the question to this thread is....
would you LIKE to see if happen
not
do you THINK it will happen.
superfresh
22-10-04, 07:06
Nevermind.
I really can't see why they shouldn't give compensation.
So some people who haven't actually lost anything, or lost very little from a rollback might gain something they don't actually deserve.
Big deal.
People quit over these fuck ups, many accounts could be saved with a little generosity and remorse for your mistakes.
Maybe it's because they don't want to actually admit they've fucked up.. who knows..
The logical thing for KK to do is to give us as much free gameing as they lost. 1 day roll back 1 day free, not much i know.. but latest Saturn rollback were a bit longer.. It's not about the money if it's just one day.. it's about right and wrong. However I do not belive this will happen. Why would a company decide something that will give them less profit? Sure.. people would stay happy and KK wouldn't loose as many players.. But when have they been known to plan ahead?
It's not about the money if it's just one day.. it's about right and wrong.
nail head hit and so on.....
StealthyAssassi
22-10-04, 11:56
I just dont understand why we on Terra have to put up with this shit all the time. I played Anarchy Online for 2 years - never had any problem.
Well, it shows you've never played an MMORPG Before.
It wont happen, never will, not with any game.
OCCASIONALLY Some Games (And even KK in the past) has loot and xp levels raised server side for a small period after one of these, but otherwise, it never, ever happens and probably never will.
OMG with these remarks QD omg!!!
So what if he hasnt ever played an mmorg?
So what if he had?
Does all that mean kk cant be an exception?
Anyway, apart from all those irrelevant comments, good service means compensating for lost time. And the easiest way is compensating thru cash. And this is the best way to prevent from another such incident, unless you all agree some can leave unpunished
right, i cant see KK giving up a free day of play or money credited cause thats not good for them....but a win/win situation is to give something that is free to KK and makes us happy. that would be anything ingame as currency...whether it be money, XP, free rares! :), or something.....providing an extra day to everyone might set KK back but XP is free to them and gold to us.
I think the problem is that noone at KK's office understands the word "compensation".
Someone buy them a zerman-enklish-zerman dictionary.
i think we can tell who has been here a while and those who have not.........
no offence to either party
i have been here since retail egan of nc1 and have seen whole character wipes,cab wipes,shut down servers and the basic response was 100k for your trouble due to lack of database tracking.
and atm i havent ben on a lot due to work so yeah gimme extra creds for game time i havent used :)
i think we can tell who has been here a while and those who have not.........
no offence to either party
im not taking offense, but what does this mean?
cause i have played NC1 since..wow this time 2 years ago.
do KK ever give us anything for anything that goes wrong?
NO!
MATE, JUST FOREGT IT.....THEY WONT GIVE SHIT TO U MATE.........
QuantumDelta
22-10-04, 22:58
Any compenstation they give, would be unfair.
If it weren't unfair, it would be open to exploitation by people, because the only fair way would be for people to report their losses.
--
Free Day?
I didn't play over the rollback period.
I lost nothing.
Free Day?
Lol, I gain time on you guys.
Another guy, who was leveling the whole period? - He got 2 MC5 CPUs completed.
Yet another person who was leveling the whole period didn't get anything.
Even if you give people an extra day, odds of events unrolling like that are insanely low.
KK can't do anything about a situation like this without either -- like I said on opening;
Leaving themselves open for exploitation, or;
unfairly and unevenly letting people have credit for a mistake that may not have effected them, therefore giving extra to those who lost nothing.
Any way you look at it they can't do shit :p
Which is why there isn't one mmorpg that does it.
Which is why there isn't one mmorpg that does it.
this comment right here is just you talking out of your ass. i named MMORPGs that DID do it. Go look it up if you dont believe me. now stay on topic.
Giving something to someone who didnt earn it is just a bonus(who cares if they didnt play.) giving something to someone that earned it is required.
Well - We lost what - 12 hours or so? I'd be inclined to ask for a free twelve hours to get back to where I was - that way, if I wanted to - I could do things differently which is a double bonus - I would'nt want a skill point prezzy, because then you get everyone not affected getting free levels - which means the affected are still at a disadvantage.
Rollbacks and sucking of ass are synonymous - but there's not really much you can do - I'd like it if KK came up with something though.
Any compenstation they give, would be unfair.
If it weren't unfair, it would be open to exploitation by people, because the only fair way would be for people to report their losses.
--
Free Day?
I didn't play over the rollback period.
I lost nothing.
Free Day?
Lol, I gain time on you guys.
Another guy, who was leveling the whole period? - He got 2 MC5 CPUs completed.
Yet another person who was leveling the whole period didn't get anything.
Even if you give people an extra day, odds of events unrolling like that are insanely low.
KK can't do anything about a situation like this without either -- like I said on opening;
Leaving themselves open for exploitation, or;
unfairly and unevenly letting people have credit for a mistake that may not have effected them, therefore giving extra to those who lost nothing.
Any way you look at it they can't do shit :p
Which is why there isn't one mmorpg that does it.
You really believe all that?
Permit me to question your Business background (if any).
Businesses dont work like how you just described. Recent examples: take a look how car companies compensate their clients when something is broken in their products. or pharmaceutical companies, or EVERY company that wants to built trust among their clients, no matter how big or how small.
Certainly its their choice to compensate or not. This is not an obligation. But this is what ceparates good service from bad service.
Furthermore don't speak on behalf of kk's. Unless you represent kk here...
You simply cant tell what kk is capable of doing. Compensating for time loss is not at all hard and you that didn't played will also get 12 hrs play. so what?
big deal. The guy you just described that lost his mc5 cpus actually did lost something. offcourse he can easily replace it again, so no big deal there as well.
QuantumDelta
24-10-04, 03:46
Others here are speaking on behalf of KK, as you put it anyway.
Jini;
Businesses, aren't MMORPG Developers.
MMORPG Devs aren't Businessmen.
MMORPG Devs are coders.
MMORPGs look at everything in an attempt to;
Stop exploitation of systems.
Stop unfairness between players.
Bee boy, maybe you should list some decent, mmorpgs.
Your top level code is pretty simple, since KK have kinda already said they don't have a tracking system for items, it's likely they also don't have a tracking system for xp.
Infact, the only thing I ever remember them saying they did get a tracking system for, was GM Commands, so they would be able to prove people were talking bollocks when they were whining about GMs doing things.
The point about free playtime QD is that it's based in the real-world. RL money is spent for the provision of a service, it's irrelevant what service. If that service fails it's "fair" it be dealt with at that level. Arguing about the in-game world just muddies the waters unnecessarily and gives the companies excuses to do nothing.
MMORPG Devs aren't Businessmen.KK's accountant(s) would disagree I hope
MMORPG Devs are coders.Some of them. The programmers that is - the rest are artists, secretaries, writers, DBAs, managers, etc. The management will decide policy not the programmers. You're previous post makes no sense at all.
QuantumDelta
24-10-04, 13:51
The point about free playtime QD is that it's based in the real-world. RL money is spent for the provision of a service, it's irrelevant what service. If that service fails it's "fair" it be dealt with at that level. Arguing about the in-game world just muddies the waters unnecessarily and gives the companies excuses to do nothing.
Still tends to be the line MMORPG companies take...
Whether that's just out of laziness or unwillingness to award free time for their faults/faults of their hardware, I don't know.
KK's accountant(s) would disagree I hope
Heh, I'd class people like MJS an accountants as businessmen.
Programmers as workforce, though as with any workforce they're still vital.
Some of them. The programmers that is - the rest are artists, secretaries, writers, DBAs, managers, etc. The management will decide policy not the programmers. You're previous post makes no sense at all.
Devs are what I tend to regard as the problem solvers, secretaries and managers are things I definately exclude from that group and associate more with the business side of things..
Storyline,
Coding,
Music,
Art (2d/3d/level design etc).
The people that actually put the game together directly, rather than indirectly like a manager/producer (Though I guess that does depend on the producer).
True, most managers are/were programmers/experts in their fields, themselves, but it's still hard to regard a middle/upper manager as a dev in my eyes;
Line managers, obviously, are just Lead "Insert field here" ....so in that respect yea, devs.
My slightly skewed look at the industry :p
You're quite right though the programmers don't tend to be the people making the decisions.
Design team/management team.
Since the management team would be the ones to consider customer service, you'd think in a normal company that they'd be more than willing to allow a resource like one day free, if it doesn't happen often, in an MMORPG one day isn't a huge amount, though again this is looking at it away from the ingame world part, which MMORPG Staff for some reason don't tend to do.
Experience from working with;
iRO Staff(closely).
[NDA Problem here :p - though people already know I'm testing it ...]
EvE Staff.
UO Staff (One long long time ago...).
And observation of KK, though KKs team tends to be a little more, mixed? due to it's size.
"Machines" designers too.
I miss when I had the time to beta test properly :|
Not gonna happen really.
what dj said :D
Still tends to be the line MMORPG companies take...
Whether that's just out of laziness or unwillingness to award free time for their faults/faults of their hardware, I don't know.
As I said earlier I think that will have to change in time as the industry matures.
AFAIK MJS is not a qualified accountant but he (or others like him) will make the decision on policy including compensation. The devs may be asked for input but they most certainly won't be making the decision.
Devs are what I tend to regard as the problem solvers, secretaries and managers are things I definately exclude from that group and associate more with the business side of things..
Storyline,
Coding,
Music,
Art (2d/3d/level design etc).
Dev = Developer. In business terms that's the whole company (as opposed to publishers and distributors). In employee terms it's a programmer (coder). KK for some reason I never understood give the "dev team" tag to almost everyone.
True, most managers are/were programmers/experts in their fields, themselves
Very rarely is that true. It's more common in games development than most other fields but still it's the exception and not the rule.
though again this is looking at it away from the ingame world part, which MMORPG Staff for some reason don't tend to do.
There's a good reason for that - if they explicitly apply value to ingame items they risk being found liable for their loss or destruction. It's much safer to draw a solid line in the sand and say that nothing in-game has value.
The service however does have a clear and stated value. Hence why I think that's what compensation can, should and ultimately will be based on.
QuantumDelta
24-10-04, 14:13
Well I definately agree on the last part, I think the rest is up to perception :p
Well I definately agree on the last part, I think the rest is up to perception :pNot really but this is going nowhere and I need to cook dinner.... :)
KRIMINAL99
24-10-04, 14:48
Umm... no? At best, I'd support KK giving me a free day of play. This is just too much. What about the people that ended up not playing during the rollback time? Free XP for them? Even if it *could* be done (which I doubt, at least easily), I'd still say no.
--Stryfe
Actually that WOULD make sense depending on your point of view on the service KK is providing. I can tell you right now that KK's view of their service doesn't justify this however.
If they believe that the service they are providing is to entertain you simply by giving you SOMETHING to play, then they probably feel that you were still entertained despite the fact the database was rolledback.
Even though in reality all that would have to happen for them to see that this is not the case is for them to have a month long rollback, or constant rollbacks, and see how pissed everyone got. To be honest though I can't describe what IS the service we are paying for off the top of my head.
Regarding mid level managers in programming - Isn't that were they put people whos skills are phased out within a year or so of getting a Computer Science degree due to changes in technology and who lack the overall knowledge and reasoning ability to understand the new stuff on their own?
I believe we are out of subject.
From all my experience so far in neocron all I can say is this:
There are some customers (like you and me) that believe they can actively take the role of kk/10tacel employees (btw, Jernau has pointed this out a lot of times big thanks Jernau :D). These people forget that this is a mistake and that they also pay for this service like everybody else and that for some of them I would like to question their motives.
We are the customers, we pay for this service so we demand this service to be of some quality. They are the company, they get paid for what they offer and they need to do this respecting business ethics. If their Quality Of Service is bad then they will lose customers.
Is there anyone here in this forum that doesnt want to get compensated when something like this happens? It goes as simple as that. All the rest of the comments are simply irrelevant and out of subject. And if you answer no in my question, then I will just simply say that you have other motivation to do so.
hear hear jini.
rightly said good man.
i think all those in denial of what they really want or think kk will give are just being stubburn for the sake of being so. Action is inspired by words and talk is inspired by action. So unless you voice what you want (ie: these forums) you will never get kk to do anything for you.
theyre should be some compensation for rollback. considering from what i heard theyre been more than 3 in the past weeks. most/some of yall just be chalkin it up as a lost and move on while others actually take heat to it. 3 rollbacks is really some bullshit, and even more fucked up is that it happened within one month. KK shoulda took theyre time and extended beta another 2 months while they fixed all the shit out. Anyways, I'm not gonna activate my accounts till all this shit gets settled and WoC is in game and working. I'm not in a hurry to deal with the gay ass looking char models and the way they run just yet
hear hear jini.
rightly said good man.
i think all those in denial of what they really want or think kk will give are just being stubburn for the sake of being so. Action is inspired by words and talk is inspired by action. So unless you voice what you want (ie: these forums) you will never get kk to do anything for you.
:lol:
Just too funny.
hear hear jini.
rightly said good man.
i think all those in denial of what they really want or think kk will give are just being stubburn for the sake of being so. Action is inspired by words and talk is inspired by action. So unless you voice what you want (ie: these forums) you will never get kk to do anything for you.
However, they do raise a voice and this is why companies dont care too much. They, unintentionally give the wrong messages and this is why we are in this kind of state right now. Business management is not an easy task at all.
They're not going to give you anything until item tracking's in, and even then I doubt it'll be done often. We pay for access to a persistent game world with a ToS that says. essentially, that anything can change at any time. A rollback is a change to the persistent world. You don't lose entertainment time from it, you just get to do things over. Maybe for the better, maybe for the worse.
In a nutshell, nuts to you if there's a rollback. By agreeing to the ToS, you agreed to this treatment.
hear hear jini.
rightly said good man.
i think all those in denial of what they really want or think kk will give are just being stubburn for the sake of being so. Action is inspired by words and talk is inspired by action. So unless you voice what you want (ie: these forums) you will never get kk to do anything for you.
Huh? O_o
Erm... That was self explanatory. Once again... :wtf:
That said - Just asking does not gaurantee action. Which some people seem to have no grasp of. People can Bitch/Whine/Threaten/Ask all they want - If it's not feasible - it's not feasible. If it's reasonable to compensate us - They'll compensate, if not they won't simple as.
But I hardly think that they're going to do anything for a bunch of whiners. So I suggest, as you said - Some kind of communique, BUT wouldn't you rather have some sort of mature, civilised dialogue, rather than "ONOES I R LOST 13 LEVELSES! J00 R PAY!"
Especially when the servers are maintained by an outside company - (IIRC) - then we should be pursuing that bunch of peoples.
I doubt any of that makes sense, but... well, it made sense in my head. :rolleyes:
I think KK should give us compensation for the rollback on the database.
Compensation in the form of giving everyone X amount of levels to all stats.
There should be average taken of the amount of XP that players earn in an hour and for every hour of rollback there should be that much XP given to each player upon reentry.
Look at this for examples. I pay for cable TV, if my cable goes out due to the fault of my cable company or natural disaster. I am reimbursed for that time and most of the time then some. What is to say that a pay to play game should not do the same.
Anyone with me on this?
What are you on ?
Guys on saturn lost 3 weeks of time, all KK could say was 'Oh Shit Look on our faces' and then something about not our entirely our fault.
Playing NC is like parking your car at a supermarket, you have no choice to park there , you even pay and display, and yet they accept no responabilty for loss or damage....
KK used to be a supermarket
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