View Full Version : TL 130+ pokes help or not?
Bugs Gunny
19-10-04, 09:57
Ok, this is an issue that many people are discussing.
Say you get your char poked up with tl130 or higher pokes, will you lose less imps when you die than when you got poked by a tl 84 poker.
Also if you get all imps poked at tl 115+ and say a headbone at tl 50 does the bone fall out first?
i always thought the the imps that fall out are random. if you look at it this way. times i have died i have managed to not drop one head imp out and thats happened a few times say like my chest or leg . then there has been times where ds psi core have come out too . think its just like slots it just too random to say what tl is good .
Jesterthegreat
19-10-04, 11:31
random
Bugs Gunny
19-10-04, 11:37
So, what would be an appropriate way to test this?
One poker tl 130
One poker tl 50
one bitch with standard bones (5 implants)
1)Kill him 50 times repoke at tl 130
See how many imps fall out (1 20%, 2 40%, 3 40% 4 20%) example
2)kill him 50 times repoke at tl 50
Same thing
3)kill him 50 times, two imps,headbone tl 50, chest poked at tl 130
See what % each imp fals out.
That would mean you need a couple of sets of bones, a repairer, two pokers, killer and killbitch.
Anyone up for a test?
random. i allways get 120+ pokes and drop brainimps and backbone and stuff all the time.
Don't think it has anything to do with the poke TL.
But one thing I'd like to know is that usually imps don't drop from imp slots to qb, but psi glove does, infact I have dropped it quite several times, so why is this?
Classic.
Who makes this shit up?
Don't think it has anything to do with the poke TL.
But one thing I'd like to know is that usually imps don't drop from imp slots to qb, but psi glove does, infact I have dropped it quite several times, so why is this?
Here is the idea, Take all your armour, quick belt and out in Inv, go to yos .. The top 10 most expensive items are what will drop from your belt ....
Also anything implanted does not drop staright in belt, it just loose items in QB, Inv, Processor and armour ....
As for Poking thing, yes go for it, Get to kill some guy 500 times, and then you can come tell us its random.
KK cant even track a rare item, now we expect them to track who poked what and when ?
What i do notice is, if you fall and die, you dont loose many imps, when killed and killed by high level mobs, you do ... So killing rank may be a factor more than who poked what
There was a theory that the amount of damage done past the kill point affects it.
ie if you have 20 health and take 100 damage you have 80 surplus that knocks imps out.
I never tested it but it's possible. Certainly more likely than the poker theory.
Bugs Gunny
19-10-04, 13:42
The most expensive item in quickbelt drops????
BULLSHIT
Then how come APU's drop boosters or medpacks so often?
It's 90% the last item you took out of someone's belt, and very often the last thing you picked up, but there seems to be some sort of timer expiration on it.
I used to hack many belts and each time i got killed when i had recently hacked a belt that was what i lost.
The thing i'm sure about allready with imps falling out is, if you get MEGAkilled, meaning 5 high level mobs blasting you with something that takes you two hits to die from, you drop many imps. If you get killed by a player or lower level mob you drop one, sometimes more.
The most expensive item in quickbelt drops????
BULLSHIT
Then how come APU's drop boosters or medpacks so often?
It's based on resale price at a Yos allbuyer. Imps, keys, tools, "junk", chems and quickslot aren't included.
Gloves count as armour and some tools count as weapons (or have in the past).
It's possible that KK changed something at some point or that it's bugged but I've never seen it break these rules.
Bugs Gunny
19-10-04, 13:54
Jeranu if you're sure about this....
Make your alt drop a 5 slot tl3 heal in a belt. Then hack it on an alt wearing PA, 3 rare weapons in quickbelt etc... I'll kill you within 2 minutes and i get to keep the 5 slot heal if it's in your belt.
I've had this happen too many times to be unsure of this.
I'm sure most spies and belthackers know how this goes. You hack a belt, get dropped and lose the thing you hacked.
Jeranu if you're sure about this....
Make your alt drop a 5 slot tl3 heal in a belt. Then hack it on an alt wearing PA, 3 rare weapons in quickbelt etc... I'll kill you within 2 minutes and i get to keep the 5 slot heal if it's in your belt.
I've had this happen too many times to be unsure of this.
I'm sure most spies and belthackers know how this goes. You hack a belt, get dropped and lose the thing you hacked.I've had hackers for over two years including all the main characters I've played and I've not noticed that.
The only trend I've ever noticed is that Tanks seem to lose their trousers a lot. I have a nagging suspicion this is deliberate but other than that the official version seems right to me.
angelsenior
19-10-04, 14:01
As far as i noticed in NC1, the imps that drop out more easily are usually the ones with bad condition, the lower the condition, the easier they fall out.
Redd Harvest
19-10-04, 14:06
There was a theory that the amount of damage done past the kill point affects it.
ie if you have 20 health and take 100 damage you have 80 surplus that knocks imps out.
I never tested it but it's possible. Certainly more likely than the poker theory.
Yeah, I'm glad somone mentioned this. This is what I've always believed to be the case. It seems random as to what goes, but you seem to lose more imps randomly if you get the living snot kicked out of you. Let it be known that a serious beatdown is a 'four imper'.
The most expensive item in quickbelt drops????
BULLSHIT
Then how come APU's drop boosters or medpacks so often?
It's 90% the last item you took out of someone's belt, and very often the last thing you picked up, but there seems to be some sort of timer expiration on it.
I used to hack many belts and each time i got killed when i had recently hacked a belt that was what i lost.
The thing i'm sure about allready with imps falling out is, if you get MEGAkilled, meaning 5 high level mobs blasting you with something that takes you two hits to die from, you drop many imps. If you get killed by a player or lower level mob you drop one, sometimes more.
Imagine I am a APU , I Die what would I have to drop
1) Carry 1 spell in slot 1 so its safe
2) I have PA / Vest, Trousers, Boots, helm and belt ...
3) Medis and Psi boosters
4) Drugs
So armour accounts for 50% of my potential loss, rest made of psi boosters and medi's... So now why would an APU drop a medi / drug or psi booster. there is a 50% chance ...
How Come PPU does not ever drop psi boosters ?
Don't the same rules apply for both ? Mebbe your the one who needs to rethink this ...
Ok so whay do you often drop the last thing you hack ?
Since its already in a belt, its already got a certain value. If you hack a Medi, would you know if you dropped it ? If you hack a PA, you notice you dropped it very quickly, but remember that the PA is of value, so falls in your top 10 expensive list.
Mebbe out of this list, there may be some sort chance of dropping last item, but since it does not always happen, its not a hard rule and a rule of probabablity ....
Think about it, you know it make sense
ah, urban legends, I love how gossips spread.
handfull of facts:
- psi glove counts as armour (try to research it)
- remote imp tool and remote rep tool count as weapon
- epic chips (at least MOVEON) does not have the nondrop flag, if you have them in inv, they can be dropped.
- Truth shall be found at Yo's
Maybe I'm a complete moron, but the imps that Ron Solo (I heard him say he has 151 IMP so he can poke 115 while lomming) pokes in for me rarely seem to fall out... It could just be down to coincidence, but usually loads of the same coincidence adds up to something else...
I've also noticed that the harder you get hit, the more you lose.
I'm not going to argue the point either way as I have no clue for sure, but this has been my experience.
Poke skill affects how much damage the imps take when they fall out not % chance of them dropping
yes your 10 most expensive items are randomized(price figured by cost to yos) one of those 10 will always drop
QuantumDelta
19-10-04, 22:21
#RAND
I can't believe this thread has so much poor misguided information in it.
Having a higher poke skill only does ONE thing: the construction time is shorter.
High TL imps that take a long time to implant will go in slightly faster from a TL 130 poker than from a TL 115 poker. Sorry guys, that's the only benefit to raising your implant skill above the TL of what you wish to implant.
TL of the poker does not affect it, neather does the amount of damage dealt.
Its completely RANDOM.
Funny stuff to read anyway :lol:
The lower your SL the more imps will fall out
This stuff is great : D Part of the fun of Neocron is how difficult it is to create a formula or simple explination for the game's behavior. Slottage is always the best example of this, even now after we've had it explained to us by kk several times, we still don't entirely accept their explination.
Alright, so the rumours about pokin are:
Skill decreases chance of imp dropping
Skill decreases implant damage on removal
Skill decreases implant time to pop in an imp
In my experience none of these are true. My imps drop entirely randomly and I always use the same poker. Some times its head imps, Sometimes its head imp + heart/eye/spine, other's it's just a bone. The few times I do use another poker, I don't ever see any difference in the damage or imp time.
For belt drops, the game picks your 10 most valuable items in belt/inventory/armor and then randomly picks one of those to drop. That is how it works, without a doubt. Everyone but PPU's, Hybrids, and PE's to some extent carry very few high value items. That's why they drop crap most of the time, that crap is actualy in their top10. This will never happen on a ppu, because the ppu could filll up a top20 list with his spells.
However I personaly believe that there are modifiers to the random function. I seriously think that it checks what class/profession you are and gives preference to certain items.
The only trend I've ever noticed is that Tanks seem to lose their trousers a lot. I have a nagging suspicion this is deliberate but other than that the official version seems right to me.
That is correct, boots and trousers.
As for the poking, I always poke myself and there are some strange things going on from time to time, like sometimes I don't loose any imps, often i lose only 1.
I'm a PPU, getting less damage than others so maybe there is something about that damage thing.
Actually, I have a different theory. The longer you stay dead, the more implants you lose. Seriously, try it.
Example:
If you lie around waiting for a rez, when suddenly the PPU gets massacred, GRing will likely pop out the max of 4 imps. But if your on a PKing spree in plaza and get wasted by a copbot (unlikely :p) ang GR instantly, you are only gonna pop 1 or 2.
Doesn't always follow, but 9/10 this is true.
As far as i noticed in NC1, the imps that drop out more easily are usually the ones with bad condition, the lower the condition, the easier they fall out.
I disagree.. my DS is on 1% and ive tapped out to my apt at-least for times since NC 2 and its not popped out yet *prays* :lol:
Having a higher poke skill only does ONE thing: the construction time is shorter.
...
Skill decreases implant time to pop in an imp
In my experience none of these are true...
This information was given to me directly by a friend who is a gm and reconfirmed by a dev team member year ago.
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 01:43
Actually, I have a different theory. The longer you stay dead, the more implants you lose. Seriously, try it.
Example:
If you lie around waiting for a rez, when suddenly the PPU gets massacred, GRing will likely pop out the max of 4 imps. But if your on a PKing spree in plaza and get wasted by a copbot (unlikely :p) ang GR instantly, you are only gonna pop 1 or 2.
Doesn't always follow, but 9/10 this is true.
i died in CRP this morning... stayed logged in and alt tabbed to the forums, fed the cats, had breakfast, fed the kittens (fed seperatly or they steal the cats food... little fuckers :p), got the post, went back on forums, alt tabbed to NC.
at least 3 hours had passed.
my skull fell out, thats all :p
Its gotta be random no way to define it.. you just gotta be lucky to not pop ya main 2 imps at the same time.. nothing worse eh?
:p
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 02:42
i died in CRP this morning... stayed logged in and alt tabbed to the forums, fed the cats, had breakfast, fed the kittens (fed seperatly or they steal the cats food... little fuckers :p), got the post, went back on forums, alt tabbed to NC.
at least 3 hours had passed.
my skull fell out, thats all :p
YOUR SKULL FELL OUT!????!?!?!!???
so your brain is now floating in a blob of flesh and skin?
couldnt resist :)
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 02:43
post count +1
indeed...
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 02:57
post count +1 I > U
definatly ;)
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:00
definatly ;)
your agreeing that im greater than you?
ok...
but nyways, skill has no effect on what drops / how much drops
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:03
your agreeing that im greater than you?
ok...
but nyways, skill has no effect on what drops / how much drops
yes and snap I forgot to post about the thread my bad
from my experiences the only think high poke does is make them go in fast(wich I like cuz SF takes for fecking ever :mad:
but some of these rumors are good im just waiting for the if you poke at exactly 0:00 game time the imp will never fall out or something like that
edit: and your prolly greater thne me I dunno never fought ya
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:05
if you poke at exactly 0:00 game time the imp will never fall out
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:06
if you poke at exactly 0:00 game time the imp will never fall out
damnit I knew youd say it :)
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:08
damnit I knew youd say it :)
then you must have wanted me to or you wouldnt have said it first :p
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:12
then you must have wanted me to or you wouldnt have said it first :p
stop messing with my miiinnnnndnddddddddddd
/emote explode
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:15
stop messing with my miiinnnnndnddddddddddd
/emote explode
ok its 2:15 am anyways... gnight :p
Bugs Gunny
20-10-04, 10:01
Checked the belt drop rule again yesterday.
I was carying a stamina booster, tl 90 hacktool, three v 0.3 built softwares one with a slot on it.
Died in NC subway due to melee and hc tank (i'm a pure hacker without armor, my imps have all falen out and i feel no need to repoke them till i go pistoling again).
Came back and in my belt was the stamina booster.
So there goes your theory on value at yo's.
Tonight i'll do the belthack thing a few times.
Btw.... a pure hacker with a stealthtool and 3 tl30 hacktools in his belt is great fun for roaming around the wastelands, gathering all the belts he finds.
Original monk
20-10-04, 10:10
Classic.
Who makes this shit up?
aslong as people buy it there will be theory's like this :D
Checked the belt drop rule again yesterday.
I was carying a stamina booster, tl 90 hacktool, three v 0.3 built softwares one with a slot on it.
Died in NC subway due to melee and hc tank (i'm a pure hacker without armor, my imps have all falen out and i feel no need to repoke them till i go pistoling again).
Came back and in my belt was the stamina booster.
So there goes your theory on value at yo's.
Tonight i'll do the belthack thing a few times.
Btw.... a pure hacker with a stealthtool and 3 tl30 hacktools in his belt is great fun for roaming around the wastelands, gathering all the belts he finds.You were carrying only five items - of course the booster was in the top ten. :rolleyes:
It looks like the system works as advertised but you don't understand it to me.
i know for a fact that veh comp parts can drop in belts, ive hacked quite a few from people who had, errrr... "accidents" while fire mob hunting.
so if you had 10 vc10's in you inv along with 1 stam booster and nothing else (inc armour) you would NEVER drop the stam booster
thats how you protect your precious stams :lol:
Bugs Gunny
20-10-04, 14:18
Jernau, enlighten me then :-)
If you cary five items you drop a stamina booster? while the others are worth a lot more?
Jernau, enlighten me then :-)
If you cary five items you drop a stamina booster? while the others are worth a lot more?It's random from the top ten (with the exceptions mentioned above).
So - it lists your top ten items and then picks one of those at random.
If you have 10 valid items or less all are equally likely to drop.
Only if you have more than 10 will the lowest value items be safe.
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 15:03
It's random from the top ten (with the exceptions mentioned above).
So - it lists your top ten items and then picks one of those at random.
If you have 10 valid items or less all are equally likely to drop.
Only if you have more than 10 will the lowest value items be safe.
how many times has this been explained? :D
anyways yeah thats the info that was last released and is still the system today afaik (i havent tested it tbh, but it seems to hold true)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.