View Full Version : Remove HC weapon pull animation
I find when trying to fight anything i pull my cs and after 5 seconds of pulling it of his back i can finally aim properly, then after unloading a clip i start to reload in a fight it can be better to reload put your weapon away to speed things up bad side is sometimes this jams or maybe you put your weapon away to heal. As you pull again its another 5 seconds before you can aim properly again a severe disadvantage . As it goes HC is a hard enough class to play with out this aiming is a pain in the ass and this just complicates it more .
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 12:46
It's like that because people used to stack weapons on their belts and hit reload, then flick to the next weapon, fire it all off, then hit reload flick back, etc.
It was done so you can't exploit the faster reload time.
As for aiming .... Try Lib PE, against good pvpers.
Ive tried a libby on my PE the recticle shuts really fast you dont got a heavy ass cannon weighing you down so there is faster aiming easier to keep a lock. Also if the pe has a bad aim it could probably rely on the fact it can heal and shelter itself and survive for longer than it normally would. Now a tank with a shit aim would basicly be dead straight away you either unload what you got or you dont because you heal after a fight not during it .
Also that exploit sound pointless were the hell do you put your stams or buff or anti-shocks also if you unload all 3 weapons then what you load them all one at a time Stuff normally takes more than 3 clips to kill because alot of shots dont hit. Who the hell carrys 3 rares around on them you would be nearly guarenteed to drop one and in NC2 you can't afford that why because most people are poor and dont have 10 apartments full of replacement rares.
It's linked to rate of fire stat, I think, and very noticeable with low frequency weapons.
The same `issue` is present with sniper rifles.
i.e. 24 shots per sec RoF = 2.5 secs between shots
Therefore you have 2.5 seconds of `dead time` between drawing the weapon and being able to get off your first shot.
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 13:13
It's linked to rate of fire stat, I think, and very noticeable with low frequency weapons.
The same `issue` is present with sniper rifles.
i.e. 24 shots per sec RoF = 2.5 secs between shots
Therefore you have 2.5 seconds of `dead time` between drawing the weapon and being able to get off your first shot.
It's not so much linked to RoF as it is Reload time (same thing in some contexts...)
Darkener, CSs and other likened weapons have .....peripheral aiming advantages, especially in third person.
There are ......tricks, you can do with them that just can't be done with the liberator.
Using Liberators RoF to probably even 65% of it's full potential (rather than the bug abusing pros from early NC1) is difficult at best.
Unless you litterally wanna walk around going *click mouse button to fire burst, click mouse button to fire burst.*
Which of course....isn't the way to get optimum results from Lib, unlike CS, where it's much easier to just hold the button down (perhaps, not the best way, though, considering the RoF, you can actually get away with click, click.)
These are a few of the basic differences between CS and Lib.
There are more like swing lock, and range, but meh.
Yeah were as MR no aimin melee tank and apu rips out what they got and tear a chunk outta you or start to at least. Most fights are dependent on the first few moves you take . So its 2.5 seconds and how ever else longer it takes me to get a lock on target before i can finally shot .
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 13:18
Just anticipate it ...don't leave it holstered as soon as you see them draw, move and start drawing.
If you're moving, especially say...diagonally at them with variation, credit to them for hitting you in that "2.5" seconds...
It's not so much linked to RoF as it is Reload time (same thing in some contexts...)
Darkener, CSs and other likened weapons have .....peripheral aiming advantages, especially in third person.
There are ......tricks, you can do with them that just can't be done with the liberator.
Using Liberators RoF to probably even 65% of it's full potential (rather than the bug abusing pros from early NC1) is difficult at best.
Unless you litterally wanna walk around going *click mouse button to fire burst, click mouse button to fire burst.*
Which of course....isn't the way to get optimum results from Lib, unlike CS, where it's much easier to just hold the button down (perhaps, not the best way, though, considering the RoF, you can actually get away with click, click.)
These are a few of the basic differences between CS and Lib.
There are more like swing lock, and range, but meh.
Hmmm ive played a HC tank for two years now let me see . Most HC tanks make the decision on what aiming they want after being in 1st peron for 5 seconds because of how big the cs is or any cannon. The only advantage to 1st player mode is you can break people legs then kill them easy when they are broken. Were as 3rd person is better aimin all round you can see around you what coming at you but one of the most annoying things that happens is if you lag a bit or aim slips off for a sec when you fire and all your shots hit the ground extremely annoying . Not nearly as annoying as sitting to wait for my weapon so i can aim. Also if you ever miss a stam and hit an empty slot during a critical moment in a fight were 2.5 seconds could be make or break this is a serios pain in the ass
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 13:28
Sigh.
It's simple then;
blame the people abusing the reload.
Was that really the reason they did it . It was hardly ever used on saturn no one wanted to lose a spare CS or Rav the werent easy to replace . As for ops CS does as much damage as a fly does when it hits a car when flying around on anything with a heal and shelter .
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 13:42
Was that really the reason they did it . It was hardly ever used on saturn no one wanted to lose a spare CS or Rav the werent easy to replace . As for ops CS does as much damage as a fly does when it hits a car when flying around on anything with a heal and shelter .
Says the Tank to the PE o_O
You sir obviosly havent seen a Melee pe one of the most annoying things to kill in the game. At op fights the kill apu's faster than ppu's can heal them , when its a 1 v1 you would want to carry a dev. Some of them are spected with tank armour but have a shelter/deflector and better heal. Even with a dev trying to aim at it as it runs around you 500 times is a pain in the ass. Your best bet is to hit it in the legs and hope they break and before he heals you destroy his legs again then you unleash the dev and stack him with some poison .
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 13:57
If a melee PE kills a PPU backed apu, it's as simple as;
the apu was stupid.
infact, if a melee user kills anyone except a HC Tank and maybe Rifle PE (runspeed), it's a rather silly victim I'm afraid.
If you do just one thing, a melee PE or Tank is rendered useless, this was the reasoning behind their attack power being brought up much higher -_-
I would rather KK fix that bug and readjust the strength of MC, but nevermind...
If a melee PE kills a PPU backed apu, it's as simple as;
the apu was stupid.
infact, if a melee user kills anyone except a HC Tank and maybe Rifle PE (runspeed), it's a rather silly victim I'm afraid.
If you do just one thing, a melee PE or Tank is rendered useless, this was the reasoning behind their attack power being brought up much higher -_-
I would rather KK fix that bug and readjust the strength of MC, but nevermind...
Stay far enough away from them? ;) So that client-side it looks like your hitting the person, with damage numbers rolling off and everything, but server-side the victim is too far and they aren't being hit?
Ayup, sort that. This "melee is overpowered" crap really annoys me.
If a melee PE kills a PPU backed apu, it's as simple as;
the apu was stupid.
infact, if a melee user kills anyone except a HC Tank and maybe Rifle PE (runspeed), it's a rather silly victim I'm afraid.
If you do just one thing, a melee PE or Tank is rendered useless, this was the reasoning behind their attack power being brought up much higher -_-
I would rather KK fix that bug and readjust the strength of MC, but nevermind...
Well you obviosly didnt get many melee PE's on pluto. My prime example of how godly the Melee PE's can be are Cut throat and Cannings when he had his melee pe on saturn. I bet ya they could take down a apu backed ppu ive seen it time and time again during op fights ect. POT knocks the crap out the apu's, pistol pe's who think they are all bad ass , tanks , melee tanks and so on. The melee pe is of course in the hand of a confident Pvp'r and not a nib who wouldnt have a clue what con ment let alone what a setup was .
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 14:13
Stay far enough away from them? ;) So that client-side it looks like your hitting the person, with damage numbers rolling off and everything, but server-side the victim is too far and they aren't being hit?
Ayup, sort that. This "melee is overpowered" crap really annoys me.
Ain't it the truth?
The only people who get killed by melee chars are those too dumb to move, or those who can't move because they have broken legs, parad, or HC / RC weaponry.
--
That said, Para a MC Tank, even with the weaker paras...they're uselss from that point on.
--
FYI, I've never had an MC Char since they changed the damage level of them.
Ask Cannings how his MC PE faired against APUs that knew if they ran away from him, he would hit them maybe 25% of the time at best.
Oddly enough unless para'd, or significantly lower level, none of my chars have ever, ever, died to an mc char (exception: QD was fighting a grim chaser at the start of ....oh wait he was parad...nevermind).
Stay far enough away from them? ;) So that client-side it looks like your hitting the person, with damage numbers rolling off and everything, but server-side the victim is too far and they aren't being hit?
Ayup, sort that. This "melee is overpowered" crap really annoys me.
The only problem with that theory is it doesn't work. It's just as easy for the melee tank to appear miles away while dealing you damage. It only takes mediocre skill to overcome the lag affects.
I'm inclined to agree that the melee tank isn't really overpowered though, they just appear so cos of the shit netcode.
Dont remove it.
I think it looks quite cool anyway... adds to the roleplay/atmosphere issue, and it doesnt look like your pulling it from your ass like it used to.
The only problem with that theory is it doesn't work. It's just as easy for the melee tank to appear miles away while dealing you damage. It only takes mediocre skill to overcome the lag affects.
Dunno, just what I've heard around.
I'm inclined to agree that the melee tank isn't really overpowered though, they just appear so cos of the shit netcode.
Yeah, seriously. And the only people I can remember complaining to me personally about how melee is overpowered, never fought a melee character to any extent outside of Pepper Park. Meaning, they couldn't abuse the terrible net code to avoid the melee range since Pepper Park was/is such close quarters combat that you can't get too far from your target (pp1/p3 zone line).
I love my melee tank and I've always been one, ever since I rolled my first tank in march or so of '03. I hate H-C, and it just doesn't make mini-me stand at attention the way it seems to for other people. I'd hate for my melee tank to be re-nerfed because people haven't gotten nearly as intelligent or creative with stopping a melee user as they have with stopping a PPU :(
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 14:32
Sorin;
You're right, and basically chumble is right, it's just the opposite way around from the way he worded it.
From his text I get the impression he meant the way you did though :p
Jesterthegreat
17-10-04, 16:10
It was done so you can't exploit the faster reload time.
exactly what i was going to say.
stops people abusing the crappy game mechanics (draw weapon = faster than reload) to get an unfair advantage.
1.) Remove Speedmalus while having a weapon drawn. (Be it Rifle or HC)
2.) Up CS to TL 115, Downgrade Doom Beamer to TL 105.
3.) Add HC-Eyes.
4.) Give Tanks ***
5.) Profit!
Tbh...
Sorin;
You're right, and basically chumble is right, it's just the opposite way around from the way he worded it.
From his text I get the impression he meant the way you did though :p
No I meant exactly what I said. It is possible for a melee tank to use the netcode to deal damage while appearing to be far away, just like it is possible to run away from a melee tank while still appearing to be close. It's basically two ends of the same thing; ie the piece of string (and two cans) used to transfer data between client and server.
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 16:58
No I meant exactly what I said. It is possible for a melee tank to use the netcode to deal damage while appearing to be far away, just like it is possible to run away from a melee tank while still appearing to be close. It's basically two ends of the same thing; ie the piece of string (and two cans) used to transfer data between client and server.
Fair enough.
Sigma;
Don't start that again :p
Though since all balance is right outta the window anyway and has been for months and HC tanks have been as underpowered as PEs for a while I suppose stupidly overpowering them up to APU+PPU Level wouldn't really do much more harm....
Cliffraiser
17-10-04, 18:37
It's like that because people used to stack weapons on their belts and hit reload, then flick to the next weapon, fire it all off, then hit reload flick back, etc.
It was done so you can't exploit the faster reload time.
As for aiming .... Try Lib PE, against good pvpers.
how is carrying multiple weapons so you can keep contant firing an exploit??
i know i did it all the time :o
how is carrying multiple weapons so you can keep contant firing an exploit??
i know i did it all the time :o
omg sploiter :p
and tbh imo what the sigma says is teh win
Ain't it the truth?
The only people who get killed by melee chars are those too dumb to move, or those who can't move because they have broken legs, parad, or HC / RC weaponry.
--
That said, Para a MC Tank, even with the weaker paras...they're uselss from that point on.
--
FYI, I've never had an MC Char since they changed the damage level of them.
Ask Cannings how his MC PE faired against APUs that knew if they ran away from him, he would hit them maybe 25% of the time at best.
Oddly enough unless para'd, or significantly lower level, none of my chars have ever, ever, died to an mc char (exception: QD was fighting a grim chaser at the start of ....oh wait he was parad...nevermind).
Hmm you carry a PPU around with you often certainly sounds like it in a 1 v 1 duel a libby pe versus a POT melee stands now chance . The armour he drugs to get on are same as a tank except he has the healing ability of a PE.
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 19:56
Hmm you carry a PPU around with you often certainly sounds like it in a 1 v 1 duel a libby pe versus a POT melee stands now chance . The armour he drugs to get on are same as a tank except he has the healing ability of a PE.
lol, even in op wars, QD(PE) rarely takes PPU buffs, it's a strange exception to a rule to see me around with a PPU, and that's normally, a coincidental thing if it happens, on my tank that's occasionally another story...since he benefits more from a PPU.
On my PPU ....uhm, yea.
--
On my Pistol PE, I simply stay out of the MC PEs Reach, and don't duel a MC Character outside of the wastes or larger NF Decks.
Especially watching for them warping around poles, because people seem to love to do that to me :/
[...]Though since all balance is right outta the window anyway and has been for months and HC tanks have been as underpowered as PEs for a while I suppose stupidly overpowering them up to APU+PPU Level wouldn't really do much more harm....
o.O
O.o
o.o
What sigma said but also . Hc tanks should be made as same strenght as the MC tank if anything it doesnt have to be as powerful as appu or an apu but it can be as strong as melee. Tanks were like built as soldiers they fought the ceres wars but from what they are now in game you wouldnt think it.
Can't really add anything creative to this other then I am the Tera Melee PE :lol:
//Edit//
Oh and yes... that pullout animation is stupid and is only for effect I believe. I think it was put in place to make the game look a little cooler but unlike the casting animation it just ended up taking more precious time in battle.
Oddly enough unless para'd, or significantly lower level, none of my chars have ever, ever, died to an mc char (exception: QD was fighting a grim chaser at the start of ....oh wait he was parad...nevermind).
NF.. 2 years ago..
u, ph34r and Bounty were there.
Bountys MC tank killed u. (i was sitting next to Bounty irl)
his tank = Painstalker
he didnt use parashocks. he was lvl 36.
nuff said?
Darth Slayer
18-10-04, 11:30
You can draw your cannon faster in first person then u can in third.
Scorpius.
NF.. 2 years ago..
u, ph34r and Bounty were there.
Bountys MC tank killed u. (i was sitting next to Bounty irl)
his tank = Painstalker
he didnt use parashocks. he was lvl 36.
nuff said?
Hehe, nice memory Kopaka.
Darth Slayer
18-10-04, 22:02
NF.. 2 years ago..
u, ph34r and Bounty were there.
Bountys MC tank killed u. (i was sitting next to Bounty irl)
his tank = Painstalker
he didnt use parashocks. he was lvl 36.
nuff said?
NF has well for me anyways been different to normal PVP. People I can normally Kill outside NF get me inside and vice a versa. It's also been widely regarded as bugged. So I really don't rate NF at all. Now fight night is different... :)
Ahh Bounty and Ph34r theres two old timers I would'nt mind seeing again.
Scorpius.
QuantumDelta
18-10-04, 22:34
NF.. 2 years ago..
u, ph34r and Bounty were there.
Bountys MC tank killed u. (i was sitting next to Bounty irl)
his tank = Painstalker
he didnt use parashocks. he was lvl 36.
nuff said?
Oh Yeah!
That time when I just.... stood there.
And like....healed.
For like....5 minutes......
Laughing...... :p
Voted no, sorry dude.
The tanks in NC1 who would chase you down with 4 Tangent Speed Gats in their belts, that would never drop because they were epic items, and just switched through them and never stopped to reload, always bugged me :p Nothing like 160 continuous rounds of gatlin ammo :rolleyes:
Voted no, sorry dude.
The tanks in NC1 who would chase you down with 4 Tangent Speed Gats in their belts, that would never drop because they were epic items, and just switched through them and never stopped to reload, always bugged me :p Nothing like 160 continuous rounds of gatlin ammo :rolleyes:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHahhahahahahahahahahaha
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
L33t QB-Setup tbh!
4 TSG and 6 Staminaboosters.
:lol:
Jesterthegreat
19-10-04, 01:53
What sigma said but also . Hc tanks should be made as same strenght as the MC tank if anything it doesnt have to be as powerful as appu or an apu but it can be as strong as melee. Tanks were like built as soldiers they fought the ceres wars but from what they are now in game you wouldnt think it.
melee is not overpowered... i couldntname a melee char that i couldnt beat in NC1. some may have beaten me... but they werent a class that would always win (IE overpowered)
andim talking on my HC tank btw
hmm maybe but i rember in NC melee thanks were alot stronger than HC after the patch the fact that nearly every tank is one verifys that for me. Melee can run faster have no reload,could range a CS and dont really have to aim. The stam loss on melee is nearly the same on a HC tank.
Jesterthegreat
19-10-04, 02:16
hmm maybe but i rember in NC melee thanks were alot stronger than HC after the patch the fact that nearly every tank is one verifys that for me. Melee can run faster have no reload,could range a CS and dont really have to aim. The stam loss on melee is nearly the same on a HC tank.
melee hit rate is piss poor. no aimtime is right, but people just dont hit well at all.
i have faily consistantly beaten melee PE's and tanks on my 90 base str tank. there isnt one i had real trouble with (meaning died more than 25% of the time). this isnt an ego boost, there are definatly people i cant beat, but none of them are melee :p
melee hit rate is piss poor. no aimtime is right, but people just dont hit well at all.
i have faily consistantly beaten melee PE's and tanks on my 90 base str tank. there isnt one i had real trouble with (meaning died more than 25% of the time). this isnt an ego boost, there are definatly people i cant beat, but none of them are melee :p
Yeah and i know why that is only tanks melee before that patch were any good at it but there is a noticeable difference in the tanks that changed to melee
Jesterthegreat
19-10-04, 02:29
Yeah and i know why that is only tanks melee before that patch were any good at it but there is a noticeable difference in the tanks that changed to melee
agreed, but i can (could before i lost epics / spells) reliably beat old melee tanks too
Darth Slayer
19-10-04, 11:12
I'm with Jester here, HC tank using the right weapon and there is only one weapon here for them to use will BEAT a Melee tank 100 % of the time.
The other night at an Op fight I was attacked by a fully buffed Melee tank with PPU support (Gods knows where my PPU went) and he ran away first...... :D Then died just outside the Op. Then I died but meh thats another story...... :lol:
Scorpius.
Jesterthegreat
19-10-04, 11:34
melee is overpowered if you stand still and let yourself get hit... but then what isnt?
move around, run backwards, dodge... you know, the things you should do in all fights. i treat a mele tank almost the same as any other apponant... i just dodge hime and shoot him :p
Yeah, of course you are right!
If I look at it that way then APUs aren't dangerous either, nor are Spies or PE!
If I don't get hit, that is...
:wtf:
Seriously, they WILL hit you sooner or later, and the amount of damage they do when they hit IS more then they should do, period.
I never had problems with melee either, but your argumentation is flawed.
Just because I (or you) don't have any problems with them doesn't mean that there are no problems.
Darth Slayer
19-10-04, 23:21
Yeah, of course you are right!
If I look at it that way then APUs aren't dangerous either, nor are Spies or PE!
If I don't get hit, that is...
:wtf:
Seriously, they WILL hit you sooner or later, and the amount of damage they do when they hit IS more then they should do, period.
I never had problems with melee either, but your argumentation is flawed.
Just because I (or you) don't have any problems with them doesn't mean that there are no problems.
Can't argue with that.
Scorpius.
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 01:25
Yeah, of course you are right!
If I look at it that way then APUs aren't dangerous either, nor are Spies or PE!
If I don't get hit, that is...
:wtf:
Seriously, they WILL hit you sooner or later, and the amount of damage they do when they hit IS more then they should do, period.
I never had problems with melee either, but your argumentation is flawed.
Just because I (or you) don't have any problems with them doesn't mean that there are no problems.
so they should balance it on standing still and clicking instead of real ingame situations eh?
that removes runspeed from the equasion then... and thats a balancing feature in NC (different speeds with different weapons). are we not counting the fact that every class bar PPU has a deflector to lower the damage too (lets face it... DG is shit, PoB is good)?
monks are still much more important in any PvP situation... non-melee tanks are blowing it out of proportion... its bullshit. like PE's who claim they are nerfed and useless... its bullshit. like PPU's who say theres nothing wrong with para... its bullshit
so they should balance it on standing still and clicking instead of real ingame situations eh?
that removes runspeed from the equasion then... and thats a balancing feature in NC (different speeds with different weapons). are we not counting the fact that every class bar PPU has a deflector to lower the damage too (lets face it... DG is shit, PoB is good)?
monks are still much more important in any PvP situation... non-melee tanks are blowing it out of proportion... its bullshit. like PE's who claim they are nerfed and useless... its bullshit. like PPU's who say theres nothing wrong with para... its bullshit
You didn't got my point.
Let's keep it simple.
2 Players, equal skill, perfect circumstances, then it should be HC = MC.
But let's face it, atm in a duel it's MC > HC, period.
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 01:55
But let's face it, atm in a duel it's MC > HC, period.
not in the duels i do...
why as a 90 str tank do i not have trouble with capped melee tanks, but they are so freakishly overpowered?
and im not inflating my ego, i know plenty of people who could beat me (including HC tanks so i dont claim to be best in my class either :p)
not in the duels i do...
why as a 90 str tank do i not have trouble with capped melee tanks, but they are so freakishly overpowered?
and im not inflating my ego, i know plenty of people who could beat me (including HC tanks so i dont claim to be best in my class either :p)
You are not getting my point at all.
not in the duels i do...
why as a 90 str tank do i not have trouble with capped melee tanks, but they are so freakishly overpowered?
and im not inflating my ego, i know plenty of people who could beat me (including HC tanks so i dont claim to be best in my class either :p)
2 Players, equal skill, perfect circumstances, then it should be HC = MC.
Just because you beat something doesn't make it balanced, you get the 2 best pvpers to fight imo the melee would win 8-9/10
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 02:11
Just because you beat something doesn't make it balanced, you get the 2 best pvpers to fight imo the melee would win 8-9/10
i disagree. im hardly the best pvper... are you saying every melee tank i have come across and fought have been worse than me? thats a whole lot of coincidences tbh.
and my point wasnt that im great... i actually forgot to write this bit...
if i dont have problems with 0 poison resist...i bet at least half the people moaning about melee dont spec any poison. its the whole dev thing again. "i have no poison resist and the dev kills me! omfg! nerf it!"
i disagree. im hardly the best pvper... are you saying every melee tank i have come across and fought have been worse than me? thats a whole lot of coincidences tbh.
and my point wasnt that im great... i actually forgot to write this bit...
if i dont have problems with 0 poison resist...i bet at least half the people moaning about melee dont spec any poison. its the whole dev thing again. "i have no poison resist and the dev kills me! omfg! nerf it!"
If you killed them melee people then you are better than them, or they suck at one of the easier classes to play. If you were melee you would have killed the same amount of melee tanks as you have as hc, but I would place a large amount that you would have done it easier. Mainly because aiming/movement as a melee is easier. Plus since you don't need to spec as much athletics you can have better resists (at least from my experiances)
I have poison resist in most of my chars, and most of the duels I have had as hc v hc which I have won/lost that have been very tight when it turns to melee v hc I got battered. Hence why my opinion is as it is.
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 02:39
If you killed them melee people then you are better than them, or they suck at one of the easier classes to play. If you were melee you would have killed the same amount of melee tanks as you have as hc, but I would place a large amount that you would have done it easier. Mainly because aiming/movement as a melee is easier. Plus since you don't need to spec as much athletics you can have better resists (at least from my experiances)
I have poison resist in most of my chars, and most of the duels I have had as hc v hc which I have won/lost that have been very tight when it turns to melee v hc I got battered. Hence why my opinion is as it is.
i just treatit like a different fighting style. people with melee will be right in my face. dodge more, run backwards more. its not hard to stay out of their range (yes... range! the disadvantage of way shorter range than other weapons... even Wyatt earps :p)
if i fight an APU i dont treat it like a normal fight. vs a holy lightning i dont take time to heal mid fight... its just a bad move vs APU's.
if i fight a melee i dont move like a normal fight. i move back more and keep them in front of me.
try experimenting on changing your own fighting style when you fight melee users. and before anyone says "i shouldnt have to change" then MC should be removed at the same time as PPUs, snipers, droners, APUs and hybs. all of these require a slightly different combat style.
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 02:55
melee is overpowered if you stand still and let yourself get hit... but then what isnt?
move around, run backwards, dodge... you know, the things you should do in all fights. i treat a mele tank almost the same as any other apponant... i just dodge hime and shoot him :p
unfortunatly jester the people who want the melee nerf dont want to move and dodge they just want to point shoot and win always :lol: :lol: :lol:
its true I can beat a equal skilled melee tank in NF and outside(my pal is equally skilled to me) 4-6/10 and im a pe
now unless your telling me that my uranium moded libby is better then a CS I think your nutty
and where is the evidence that MC > HC??????
give me proof equal skill= MC> HC?
and I dont want your testimony of getting owned we all have those
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 02:59
unfortunatly jester the people who want the melee nerf dont want to move and dodge they just want to point shoot and win always :lol: :lol: :lol:
its true I can beat a equal skilled melee tank in NF and outside(my pal is equally skilled to me) 4-6/10 and im a pe
now unless your telling me that my uranium moded libby is better then a CS I think your nutty
and where is the evidence that MC > HC??????
give me proof equal skill= MC> HC?
and I dont want your testimony of getting owned we all have those
well i dont agree with your posts often... but i agree. tanks arent "mobile turrets", they have 100 con and 70 dex... thats alot of runspeed. a beast will increase that and give you 25 more HC.
oh and why not get a nice para made? my 5 slot TL 1 para helps in the trickiest of fights... gives that little edge :D
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:02
well i dont agree with your posts often... but i agree. tanks arent "mobile turrets", they have 100 con and 70 dex... thats alot of runspeed. a beast will increase that and give you 25 more HC.
oh and why not get a nice para made? my 5 slot TL 1 para helps in the trickiest of fights... gives that little edge :D
well im glad you agree and your definatly right
tanks are not mobile turrets, 70 dex is how much unbuffed agl????
and parashock >melee tanks
but in the long run alot of complaining i see(yes I complain too) is because they dont know how to counter them
I used to whine about ppus but now I can kill em easy.
Go to NF with a clan for a night and practice ooorr if you hate NF go to a op bring a clan ppu and fight(ppu not buff ocorse
and ppu rez
You people are born with brains and the ability to improvise
use it
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:04
well im glad you agree and your definatly right
tanks are not mobile turrets, 70 dex is how much unbuffed agl????
and parashock >melee tanks
but in the long run alot of complaining i see(yes I complain too) is because they dont know how to counter them
I used to whine about ppus but now I can kill em easy.
Go to NF with a clan for a night and practice ooorr if you hate NF go to a op bring a clan ppu and fight(ppu not buff ocorse
and ppu rez
You people are born with brains and the ability to improvise
use it
theres alot of complaining because alot of the time KK takes noticed.
things like the dev (maybe a little too powerful) get berfed to hell cos no one has any poison resist and people start using a poison ammo mod.
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:05
theres alot of complaining because alot of the time KK takes noticed.
things like the dev (maybe a little too powerful) get berfed to hell cos no one has any poison resist and people start using a poison ammo mod.
then put points into poison DUH its there for a fucking reason :lol:
PUT POINTS IN IF YOU DONT LIKKE IT!
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:07
then put points into poison DUH its there for a fucking reason :lol:
PUT POINTS IN IF YOU DONT LIKKE IT!
i agree... but dev was nerfed months ago now (maybe even a year? i lose track)
melee will likely be next. before the boost it was "boost melee!" "give melee some love!" etc... when it means you have to learn how to fight vs melee no one wants it anymore :confused:
oh and btw guys - i have no melee tank, i have a melee PE but he will go rifle when i can afford it
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:12
i agree... but dev was nerfed months ago now (maybe even a year? i lose track)
melee will likely be next. before the boost it was "boost melee!" "give melee some love!" etc... when it means you have to learn how to fight vs melee no one wants it anymore :confused:
oh and btw guys - i have no melee tank, i have a melee PE but he will go rifle when i can afford it
I think I fought some back when it was crazy but I dunno. I remeber getting purely owned by a dev.
ok lets go into the hypothetical shall we?
one day Item X is added to class Y
the resist to the item uses oh say PSI resist
A and B are the recations
A: player C is killed by player D using item X and just goes to forum and whines and think fixes the shrinking of his Epenis(god I love that term) and whines till its nerfed
B: player E gets killed by player D later that day and he gets a clanny with it and goes spends Z time finding its weaknessess(everything has a weakness) then when the sequence hapenese again(no nerf for player C)
Player C is owned again and goes cryin to the forum
player E kills player D and is all happy and is looked up to by nibs as uber god like. I know there where some of these people back when i started
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:14
all you have to do is use common sense...
wargas is a poison mod.
melee does poison, melee has short range.
spec poison and move backwards while dodging. this will greatly improve your chances vs both weapons.
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:16
all you have to do is use common sense...
wargas is a poison mod.
melee does poison, melee has short range.
spec poison and move backwards while dodging. this will greatly improve your chances vs both weapons.
melee does poison!?
god I gotta fight melee tanks more :(
I=nib
and if you dispise putting points into a resist(for god knows why) get a fucking drug(do they still have the old resist drugs from NC1?)
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 03:20
melee does poison!?
god I gotta fight melee tanks more :(
I=nib
and if you dispise putting points into a resist(for god knows why) get a fucking drug(do they still have the old resist drugs from NC1?)
its debatable as to whether the old resist drugs had any effect...
however low tech melee (and low tech rare drones) do poison damage.
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 03:23
its debatable as to whether the old resist drugs had any effect...
however low tech melee (and low tech rare drones) do poison damage.
thanks for that info my resists may be changing a bit
[...]its not hard to stay out of their range [...]
The netcode won't always make that possible.
[...]oh and why not get a nice para made? my 5 slot TL 1 para helps in the trickiest of fights... gives that little edge :D
It won't help if he shocks you, too.
And a MC-Tank is fast even with his weapon drawn...
Melee was almost fine preboost, but it went over the top postboost.
And before anyone even starts, I got 2 HC-Tanks and I have no problem what so ever fighting MC-Tanks, BUT if someone with skill equal to mine is playing a MC-Tank, then I'll lose 65-75% of the time.
unfortunatly jester the people who want the melee nerf dont want to move and dodge they just want to point shoot and win always :lol: :lol: :lol:
its true I can beat a equal skilled melee tank in NF and outside(my pal is equally skilled to me) 4-6/10 and im a pe
now unless your telling me that my uranium moded libby is better then a CS I think your nutty
and where is the evidence that MC > HC??????
give me proof equal skill= MC> HC?
and I dont want your testimony of getting owned we all have those
How about i log my nib melee tank with out a setup and i duel you ill show you what over powered is . The fact that most tanks are melee proves how over powered they are just some of you nibs are afraid with a HC boost or making the skill equal you might have to lom again. Most times you have died to me if it wasnt for the melee boost you would have died soon think how many tanks were melee before the last patch.
As for you jester i honestly dont know . Maybe its your uberness you just can't see how overpowered they are. I can beat most melee but i know that they are over powered there is no doubt . Melee is looked on as a skill less class to be for no aiming gankage you be a melee tank plain and simple.
Oh and Phobos agree 100% with everything you have said .
lol.. hey hc dudes.. mind thinking of this.
preboost meleetanks were useless. anything with s/d on em kicked our asses.
And now when MC tank beats the crap out of you with around 50/50 chance you whine about it.
So cut the BS about melee being overpowered. If u dare to say that, i dare to say REMOVE THE CS:s ABILITY TO KNOCK PPLS FEET. perioid.
HC tank with aiming skills has the equal chance beating MC tank.
But after boosting MC - yes there has been huge invading to this chart of the game.
MC tank isn't big damage dealer, it's huge damage taker.
Edit: Voted Yes. The animation sniffs donkey balls.
lol.. hey hc dudes.. mind thinking of this.
preboost meleetanks were useless. anything with s/d on em kicked our asses.
And now when MC tank beats the crap out of you with around 50/50 chance you whine about it.
Ah, so everything with a PPU kicked a MC-Tanks ass.
OMG! How unfair!
:wtf:
Funny how you say Melee was useless before the boost, but still I know some MC-Tanks who were good before the boost.
Just one simple question, if MC isn't better then HC, then why was everyone and there dog LoMing to MC? And why do I see more MC then HC-Tanks?
The damage over time a melee tank does in comparison to a HC is daft.
And they can hit a lot - Most of it is due to the rare stunner they have.
Stun 3 swipes stun 3 swipes.... It is very damaging, and anyone with a low latency conn, high fps and a decent amount of skill can rip others up something rotten - especially in a gank situation where they run up and start swiping.
Due to the speed they often 'appear' next to their enemy and have damaged them.
Only way to destroy a melee as a hc tank is to run backwards constantly facing them and firing at their legs to cripple.
To be honest, melee is fine if they would remove the rare stunner, or boost the HC tank's stunner, as at present its rubbish.
Darth Slayer
20-10-04, 11:46
Devourer is still a nice weapon at close ranges. H'mmm guess which class of Tank has to fight you at a close range.
Anyways which drones do poison damage, because thats a new one for me ?
Scorpius.
Melee was fine before the boost, you speak to anyone who actively played one and they will tell you the same. Somehow a rumour went around saying it was shit so everyone avoided it. They didn't actually need to boost it at all, but they did, all they need to do imo is undo it.
i was melee before the boost, it was fine, i could kill people nps, ok you were never gonna solo a ppu, but neither can HC against ppus who know there shit.
i also for a little while was melee after the patch.
when i can happily raid a place and kill about 15 people with no effort i know somethings wrong.
wouldnt of been able to do that as a HC tank.
i mean the run speed diffrence for a start. you got a HC tank and a melee tank against a apu whos the easiest to hit the melee who runs at full blast, or the snail like HC.
and them the melee guy can take most apus out in 3 or 4 swipes i found.
and the stuff like well if a melee tank gets spotted from a mile away hes going down. ya same for most classes, and lets face it how many fights are at range. not many
i was melee before the boost, it was fine, i could kill people nps, ok you were never gonna solo a ppu[...]
I killed Eleds PPU preboost. :S
I killed Eleds PPU preboost. :S
fair enough then.
theres another point then, that melee was fine before hand
Asurmen Spec Op
20-10-04, 14:18
How about i log my nib melee tank with out a setup and i duel you ill show you what over powered is . The fact that most tanks are melee proves how over powered they are just some of you nibs are afraid with a HC boost or making the skill equal you might have to lom again. Most times you have died to me if it wasnt for the melee boost you would have died soon think how many tanks were melee before the last patch.
As for you jester i honestly dont know . Maybe its your uberness you just can't see how overpowered they are. I can beat most melee but i know that they are over powered there is no doubt . Melee is looked on as a skill less class to be for no aiming gankage you be a melee tank plain and simple.
Oh and Phobos agree 100% with everything you have said .
let me guess you want to duel me in a close confined area so your range isnt a problem?
let me guess you want to duel me in a close confined area so your range isnt a problem?
Let me guess you start duels 200m away from each other...
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 15:26
ok buckets of posts since last night :p
firstly who the hell are you to decide who is equal skill sigma? say i fight you as a HC tank and win exactly 50% of the times... then i log a MC tank. am i equal skill? maybe i suck with melee... does that make me less skilled?
in a game where so many different factors come into effect in combat i would really, honestly like to know how you know that 2 equal skilled people (one a MC tank and one a HC tank) would equal a dead HC tank... if you simply base it on combat results (as you did when i said i had beaten MC tanks) then i will simply say that the MC tanks that beat you arent overpowered... they are better than you (and the *you* isnt you in particular... its just a universal *you* :p)
@dark - whether MC is a skilless class isnt up for debate. i know idiots in all classes. dont get me started on the entire monk class with no aim....
as for my "uberness", no. there are plenty of people who can beat me, there are plenty of people i can beat. i would say im good at PvP, but i would hardly say im the best or im one of the best.
oh and out of curiosity has anyone ever thought that people are lomming to melee because a bunch of idiots tell everyone its overpowered? or maybe because they used to be melee tanks, found it fun, but couldnt compete in PvP well... but now they have a chance? maybe some people havent tried melee? maybe some people want a tech / money hunter (no ammo needed... just reps. and with the tech hunting they could have spare melee weapons all ver tyhe place)
Only way to destroy a melee as a hc tank is to run backwards constantly facing them and firing at their legs to cripple. from my personal experiance... BULLSHIT. i fight them slightly different to how i fight others. i do move back more than normal, but im not just running backwards.
@Darth Slayer - as i said in a prev post... rare low techs (why do you think people bitch about raptors being overpowered? thats right... they spec no poison! same reason dev was overpowered. same reason melee is overpowered.
and them the melee guy can take most apus out in 3 or 4 swipes i found. as apposed to a HC tank using a speedie? cos that does nothing :rolleyes:
[...]firstly who the hell are you to decide who is equal skill sigma?
I never said I am.
as apposed to a HC tank using a speedie? cos that does nothing :rolleyes:
Believe it or not, but atm it does nothing, well almost.
It seems that something got changed with the TSG, because I'm not doing the damage to players I used to do.
QuantumDelta
22-10-04, 02:36
I never said I am.
Believe it or not, but atm it does nothing, well almost.
It seems that something got changed with the TSG, because I'm not doing the damage to players I used to do.
That happened to all the Epic Items.
Their damage was alligned to TL, with all the other weapons.
@Darth Slayer - as i said in a prev post... rare low techs (why do you think people bitch about raptors being overpowered? thats right... they spec no poison! same reason dev was overpowered. same reason melee is overpowered.
:rolleyes:
AMEN! If they don't have resists, they should get ripped.
when the patch came out i took 3 shadow ppus and 3 shadow apus down in one fight, just having crommy covering my ass. Why? No poison/force resist = death.
And since they are skilled fighters, they wouldn't have dropped like flies with some poison resist.. and we were laughing like "omgrofltotalownage" on our coms :lol:
AMEN! If they don't have resists, they should get ripped.
when the patch came out i took 3 shadow ppus and 3 shadow apus down in one fight, just having crommy covering my ass. Why? No poison/force resist = death.
And since they are skilled fighters, they wouldn't have dropped like flies with some poison resist.. and we were laughing like "omgrofltotalownage" on our coms :lol:
You know its over-powered wannabe . One of the few melee i dont view as newbs and we have had this argument before . You know that most people are melee because its over-powered :P. Thats why they mutliplied like rabbits over night .
Yea, we've had this conversation and i agree that when melee got boosted loads of ppl went that way because it's "easier". And why i say "easier" it because it's more or less just point and click. But to master meleeing it needs more than just point and click.And by mastering i don't mean using shockers. I personally try to avoid using it. Well.. depends on what mood i am. If it's just to kill s1,i shock, but if it's going to be fair 1 on 1 duel, i'd rather not to shock. Like good old Pepper Park fights, i never shocked before s1 shocked me.
There is really big difference between characters with good con setup with loads of poison/force specd and chars without em. Like apu with good force and poison (+Holy def) takes only around 20-30 damage from a hit. Which is quite equal to tanks. I wouldn't say that it's overpowered, it was more or less about that ppl hadn't really specd force/poison.
So basicly the damage output isn't that high, it's about getting many succesful hits in row, and when the ROF is high it seems like you take loads of damage in short time -> overpowered.
You know.. the first duel i had in NC2 i sucked badly. Mostly because i find the new targetting boxes to be quite odd, but there was some serious lack of practice too. I've to say that i've neverbeen in such condition i was when we fought Shadows/-pro- a lot.. it was really good practice for all of us - and we all kinda miss those times.
Edit: As stubborn as i am i'm going to continue talking for meleeing,not being overpowered, but i'm willing to admit that it got very strong after the boost, which made it look like "bandwagon". Ppl just have the tendency of going the "easy way". :) After the patch we started calling the afterboost MCtanks "Wannabe Wannabees" :)
and btw: it's Johnny Silverhand these days.. but ppl still have the habit of calling me Wannabe :) ( I just like the name Johnny more :) )
It's like that because people used to stack weapons on their belts and hit reload, then flick to the next weapon, fire it all off, then hit reload flick back, etc.
It was done so you can't exploit the faster reload time.
As for aiming .... Try Lib PE, against good pvpers.
I thought this was a feature! Seriously. I prefer to the old reloading method.
i think i prefered the old melee tanks, before the boost your didn't loose stamina s quick, i admit melee tanks needed a boost because of the shit dmg they delt, but maybe they specced it a little too much (speaking as a melee tank) i would prefer to have the lower dmg and higher stamina back than the higher dmg and faster stamina consumption :lol:
<puts his inq 4 armour on>
Didn't they change the amount of damage melee dealt at the same time they changed the type of damage it dealt? If so, that might be part of the reason for crying "omg omg omg nerf nerf overpowered overpowered!!!111"
Maybe if they had changed one, or the other, or changed them one at a time, it wouldn't be so bad. Because they it could have been tested with good feedback. But changing them at the same time wasn't exactly the best approach.
Of course, I could be misremembering.
Didn't they change the amount of damage melee dealt at the same time they changed the type of damage it dealt? If so, that might be part of the reason for crying "omg omg omg nerf nerf overpowered overpowered!!!111"
Maybe if they had changed one, or the other, or changed them one at a time, it wouldn't be so bad. Because they it could have been tested with good feedback. But changing them at the same time wasn't exactly the best approach.
Of course, I could be misremembering.
No, you are remembering correct.
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