View Full Version : Rifle pe
-=Dredduk=-
17-10-04, 09:35
Now i made a "low tech" rifle pe a while ago and hunted warbots to cap etc..
but now since im capped i want to pvp so i got out my pain easer and found someone to kill and i did my best to kill this person but i couldnt seem to hit him at all!
and with the low rof you get with pain easer by the time you shot 4 or 6 times your dead.. and not to mention i completly missed all except one shot.
So is it just me being a complete noob with pain easyer (im used to being pistol pe) or is it to do with the fact that i had low FPS and that the pain is a hard gun to hit anything with anyway?
anyone else have trouble with pain easyer?
I think it needs a slight dmg and rof boost as well or decrease the dmg by half and make it automatic....
Also can pes please get more lowtech rifles please... terminator and pe arent enough... not to mention i will probably never get my hands on a terminator because people want so much for them and tech rate drop for parts sucks. (i hunted 300 parts and didnt get one)
what you lot think?
I think you probably need a better setup. A well set up low-tech rifle PE can take more punishment than a tank.
Regarding the 'Easer, yes, it takes a while to get used to, especially coming from a pistol background like you. Also, it does seem underpowered, but I think that's more subjective than objective.
Lowtech PEs do need more weapons than just the Terminator and the Pain Easer. I vote we get a street rifle rare in there at around dex 98. Just call it "Poor Man's Silent Hunter." :D :p
--Stryfe
-=Dredduk=-
17-10-04, 09:47
I think you probably need a better setup. A well set up low-tech rifle PE can take more punishment than a tank.
Regarding the 'Easer, yes, it takes a while to get used to, especially coming from a pistol background like you. Also, it does seem underpowered, but I think that's more subjective than objective.
Lowtech PEs do need more weapons than just the Terminator and the Pain Easer. I vote we get a street rifle rare in there at around dex 98. Just call it "Poor Man's Silent Hunter." :D :p
--Stryfe
I hope your right and takes a while to get used to.
A new rare should be introduced like a automatic weapon.. since there is no automatic low tech rifle there should be.
Sniper rifles need to be made lowtech (even if it's just the non-rares), using a commando as a lowtech pe would be fun. The pe can do some damage, though you need to string your shots togther. DB someone, and 40s-50s will roll off per burst if not more.
I hope your right and takes a while to get used to.
A new rare should be introduced like a automatic weapon.. since there is no automatic low tech rifle there should be.
Theres the gatlin rifle but since everyone is obsessed with using rares no one uses it
PE's need more lowtech weapons full stop.
What? I'm supposed to jump from a freakin wasteland eagle, to a wyatt?
Sorry...
Anyhow yeah - Setup may be an issue - If you want a rifle PE - prepare to sacrifice intelligence on everything else he could have been - you may as well had rolled a spy - they get better results with rifles anyhow, and fairly close to a PE's resists if you spec well - the only thing they lose out on against a PE is the ability to spec strength really. Con is an issue - but spys have stealth and if you find yourself dead when you have your stealth, your speed and your resists, well, you shouldn't have been there in the first place.
-=Dredduk=-
17-10-04, 10:39
oh yeah!
i used that during lvling... i might get a 3-4 slotter made and use that see what its like on monks ;) and tanks maybe.
QuantumDelta
17-10-04, 11:54
PE's need more lowtech weapons full stop.
What? I'm supposed to jump from a freakin wasteland eagle, to a wyatt?
Sorry...
Anyhow yeah - Setup may be an issue - If you want a rifle PE - prepare to sacrifice intelligence on everything else he could have been - you may as well had rolled a spy - they get better results with rifles anyhow, and fairly close to a PE's resists if you spec well - the only thing they lose out on against a PE is the ability to spec strength really. Con is an issue - but spys have stealth and if you find yourself dead when you have your stealth, your speed and your resists, well, you shouldn't have been there in the first place.
You're supposed to either stick to the lowtech (TL63?) uzi because it does more damage than the eagle, or be a mid-high tech pe.
No other way to level as effectively as a mid-tech pe.
Dredduk, Neocron aiming is actually pretty hard, especially if you're in first person (because it's a piss take in third ...nubs...) ...
You will need to practise, or change to third and automatically pwn the universe.
Try aiming for peoples feet with a low RoF, low recoil Weapon like PE, so you slow them down.
And definately work on your CON/armor setup.
*Is intrigued....*
Well - Having visited teh smuggler dude for my weapons - the Only SMGs he packed were the unlabelled and teh Uziel - I gots meself a ryker revver, which is nice, and the aforemention eagle, but unsure of where the hell to buy my next piece of kit. Tried asking tangent peoples to see what the sell at 90 symp - no joy - and I'm sure as hell not going to do missions till my eyes bleed, just because I have a hunch, which is probably wrong...
Woe is me and all that shite.
i have a PE (Driver - Rifle - H-C)
i cannot down a Spy :(
but its too funny to kill WB's with assault bikes .. and trikes ..
Clive tombstone
19-10-04, 01:59
i have a PE (Driver - Rifle - H-C)
i cannot down a Spy :(
but its too funny to kill WB's with assault bikes .. and trikes ..
hehe its true, a PE's true power can come from assault trike^^ I know, I kill spies in 2 salvos of missle vollies^^ not that I Pk much anyways, My goal is making money, not enemies. But seriously, here (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=100454) and here (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=92009) are some ideas Ive posted for rifles (among other things)
honestly, the pain easer, to me, is more like a sniper rifle (considering i have a scope/laserpointer/ultima/phosy mod on it) I never really try to use it at close range, its just annoying.
there needs to be more lowtech rifle rares
IMO the PE does just fine dmg for its TL. When I hunt with the PE I do about 64 dmg per shot (no ammo mod) on a 100/100 mob. When I shoot that same mob with a fire FL (21 TLs higher) I only do like 72 dmg per shot. That doesnt sound very proportional to the TLs if you ask me.
Not to mention at least in my personal experience with both guns it is safe to say the FL misses WAY more than any PE.
So what was wrong with the PE again? :p
Clive tombstone
19-10-04, 06:16
first off, a PE with a FL is kinda... stupid. so im not supprised to see that small increase and lack of accurracy.
a PE does miss a lot, theres no doupting that.
second, what about "new" lowtechs for us PE boyz? :D
Jesterthegreat
19-10-04, 11:27
my PE will be lommed to rifle when i bother to do epics for PP / BT.
ill be using a PE, i have seen a mate usin a PE... lowtech PE resists are ebaten only by hyb's / PPU's (self buffed chars that is), and if you can aim well with a PE, and get a DB off first time, you shred through people with a PE.
Low tech rifle PE's are the sexiest. My first char was a PE first went T-C but then changed to Low Tech and have never gone back.
Alienfreak
19-10-04, 13:33
IMO the PE does just fine dmg for its TL. When I hunt with the PE I do about 64 dmg per shot (no ammo mod) on a 100/100 mob. When I shoot that same mob with a fire FL (21 TLs higher) I only do like 72 dmg per shot. That doesnt sound very proportional to the TLs if you ask me.
3*64 = 192
4*72 = 288
Only 90 more damage ...
[TgR]KILLER
19-10-04, 13:51
Lowtech rifle > all.. tho i agree with you a PE seems to miss more shots then something else its rare to hit 3 shots..
never was a big fan of a termi got one ofcourse but din't even pick it out of the gogo since the rof was nerfed.
have anyone else noticed that the char hit boxes are smaller now ? i cant seem to aim for shait with anything but an apu atm lol
.hack//sign
19-10-04, 14:21
[QUOTE=StryfeX
Lowtech PEs do need more weapons than just the Terminator and the Pain Easer. I vote we get a street rifle rare in there at around dex 98. Just call it "Poor Man's Silent Hunter." :D :p
--Stryfe[/QUOTE]
want this very much =p the steady RF-???? rifle is really good PvM wep though
im a longtime lowtech pe and i can deal alot of dmg(have termi and painy)it IMO it takes a while to get good with the pain easer(i cap it) but the termi is pretty easy to use :rolleyes:
Dribble Joy
19-10-04, 14:31
3*64 = 192
4*72 = 288
Only 90 more damage ...
Taken from the info windows?
You know that those dmg values mean jack shit right?
Anyway, the FL hits less than the PE and is like 20 dex lvls higher.
PE is a good weapon, people seem to forget it's only tl 93.
Re. sniper rifles.
They cannot be low tech, for a few reasons. The main one is that you cannot have a lowtech weapon (rare) higher in tl than a high tech weapon.
People keep asking for a tl 100+ rare gat rifle. If it was introduced why would ANYONE use the rog? It would be a waste of TC.
High tech means more dmg, but you have a trade off.
Thus the SH would have to be of the same TL as the PE or maybe less, which would make it a bit crap.
Speaking from experiance, if you cap the PE all you need is the skills to use it. 170 RoF PE is not something to be fucked with. Not having played for so long, I'm finding it hard to readjust. Once I get my epic chips, it may be time to go lowtech again. RoG is a decent weapon, but there's something wholy different when you cap the PE completely. Firing a burst every second is a beutiful thing :cool:
I've had my lowtech rifle PE for about a year now, but ive only just started playing him again coz he was stuck on saturn, and my low tech pistol PE will probly be going high tech soon lol. the PE does take a while to get used to, ive never 100% got a total hang of it. Back before i had ANY clue what i was doing (not really got much more now), he had 90 hack and the rest in WL, big mistake, you pretty much want all your Int in WL and some psi use.
and about resists, considered drugging for BR3 or Haz/Heat 1? BR3 gives a load more HPs to play with, and Haz and Heat free up some con points. Oh and speed, don't forget to keep you runspeed up, if you're easy to hit, it means you easier to hit with a CS :p
Dribble Joy
19-10-04, 14:55
On just about all setups I have played with (all but the kami ones I used), the BR3 has been supirior to the heat/haz1s. The overall con point gain is much higher.
On just about all setups I have played with (all but the kami ones I used), the BR3 has been supirior to the heat/haz1s. The overall con point gain is much higher.
I seem to get better results with haz1.
@Clive, I was comparing the two guns using my spy ;)
My point about the PE vs. FL is that you need 200+ r-c and 89 t-c to even be capped (rof/dmg), plus 21 more dex lvls, yet it does only 8 dmg more per shot and is less accurate.
I dont get how people could actually want a boost for the PE :confused: If you want high dmg then you will need to invest points into t-c and come up with a high dex imp/armor setup. If you dont want to spend all those points then be content with a LOW TL, LOW dmg weapon.
Like dribble, said. Stop wishing to get a high TL low-tech weapon. Why would anyone invest all those points in t-c if it did not gain them extra dmg?
Dribble Joy
20-10-04, 05:40
I seem to get better results with haz1.
It depends entirely on your base con points in the various skills.
With a ppr and full gamma bones, in order to get 120+ total xray armour, you should not need more than 50 base xray.
Most if not all of my setups (bar kamis) have included 50 or less base stats in fire/energy/xray.
When this is so, the heat/haz buffs become second to the BR3.
The additional 5 hlt from the BR3 gives overall more points than +5 to xray and poison combined.
Unless you have a truely bizarre setup.
Rifle pe
what you lot think?
Don't bother.
The only good Rifle PE today is an overdosed Rifle PE, that can't be in combat for more than 5 minutes.
Without stealth and RoG, we're shit.
*loms*
Without stealth, we're shit.
[Edited]
omg rofl?
[Edited]You don't even have a slightest clue when i started playing.
And yes, HIGHTECH PEs had the tendency to shoot once, STEALTH, shoot once, STEALTH, rince, repeat - AKA STEALTHWHORING. and you can't deny that.
[Edited]
Clive tombstone
20-10-04, 08:05
omg rofl?
[Edited]You don't even have a slightest clue when i started playing.
And yes, HIGHTECH PEs had the tendency to shoot once, STEALTH, shoot once, STEALTH, rince, repeat - AKA STEALTHWHORING. and you can't deny that.
[Edited]
sorry, but Dont spies do that? We dont complain about them do we? :rolleyes:
Yes spies do that too, but pes have much better defence than spies.
sorry, but Dont spies do that? We dont complain about them do we?
Yeah, but it is their living right as a spy and the weakest of all classes. The problem with stealthing PEs was that the burst with CS didn't do that much against a PE that it does against a Spy.
Sorry blackdove :lol: remind that there are people who have camped this forum before you were even born.
September 2002 > February 2003
I'm a rifle PE on terra now. I can hack tl100 natural, 125 with buffs/imps, 40 psi use to cap tl3 heal, and still easilly use a pain easer and RoG. I don't even use power armor or epic chips. I get 200% aiming +/- 10 for both the PE and RoG, yet I can still keep up with druggie tanks and other PEs who use PA. The Pain Easer is not a gun to be messed with. It is definately hard to use, but by all means it does NOT need a boost. It's tl93 for god's sake. It's perfectly good at its current tech level... even though a TPC is better in every way except runspeed nerf, stamina consumption and ammo/mag. The point is that you can still do a limited non-combat skill as a rifler and keep up with people using better setups, but it requires practice. The difference between a finely tweaked setup and a not so tweaked one isn't as huge as you may think. Skill is by far more important than setup, so if things aren't working for you don't blame your class or specialization, but instead go out and practice, get good with your class and weapons. After you do that and are still losing because you simply cannot do enough damage, it's time to change.
[...]Unless you have a truely bizarre setup.
Well... :S
People tend to forget that offense and defence are usually at opposite ends of the same scale, and that this is particulary the case with PEs. The more you stretch to reach and cap high tech weapons, the more your defense will suffer and that is a fact. Back when I used a SH and stealth 2 - no drugs - my defense was comparible with an undrugged spy.
my defense was comparible with an undrugged spy.
Which I think isn't that bad at all if you didn't count the buffs your PE has.
Yeah, but it is their living right as a spy and the weakest of all classes. The problem with stealthing PEs was that the burst with CS didn't do that much against a PE that it does against a Spy.
Sorry blackdove :lol: remind that there are people who have camped this forum before you were even born.
September 2002 > February 2003
Three months is not equal to a year, in which the limit (several of them actually) has been taken off. Learn how to compare. And that argument with a Spy vs. PE is a joke. It's not about defence at all. Only someone without a clue about PvP would put that assumption forward, considering the fact, you indeed have no idea what the hell I'm refering to. Not that I'm going to correct you though, because you should stay out of the discussion if you don't know youself.
I'm a rifle PE on terra now. I can hack tl100 natural, 125 with buffs/imps, 40 psi use to cap tl3 heal, and still easilly use a pain easer and RoG. I don't even use power armor or epic chips.
In a 1v1 against a PE using a Healing Light or an Executioner, you will lose. Against Tanks with good Con setups, you will lose. Against spies with obliterator, stealthbreakers and healing light's/silent hunters, you will lose.
(considering they do not suck tremendously -_- ......)
Don't bother with a Rifle PE setup if you don't have
SA
HL
PA-v40
0 to intelligence in everything aside WPL (rof)
Fuckload of the correct drugs.
A carefully designed con setup.
P.S. I've been a Rifle PE for two years. You _can not_ be competitive with the best players, if you're not something extraordinary yourself.
But, if you think you're the best as far as PvP skills go, by all means, give it a chance. Don't think you can beat some of the good people out there with the setup you have though.
[TgR]KILLER
20-10-04, 15:08
err BD as much as i like you thats total BS.. i never use or used drugs on killer never used tech always been lowtech and always dit good in pvp and duels its total bs you need drugs and tech weapons to be good. and why the hell you need EVERYTHING in wep ? i cap my PE and got psu. and just pa level 3 since i aint drugging to level 4.
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 15:12
1. low tech rifes PE's are deadly in the right hands...
2. spies can get equal or greater defence to PE's, should they choose to...
3. since DJ told me to try a br3 over trade when i was finding out the req's on haz 1 while leveling my PE in NC1, i have always used BR3 because its better for my setup.
4. forum join date means nothing... im thinking more and more that join date / post count should be hidden cos its just an excuse to call people noobs now :rolleyes:
5. low tech rifle PE doesnt need PA (in fact i would not use it by choice) and does not need an SA
6. specialisation (as it has been for a long time) is the key :( a 100 hack + 115 poker may be ok tech hunting... but vs a well setup pure combat char hes dogmeat.
in conclusion make your rile PE. make him well. make him pure combat (when capped) if you want to compete in high level PvP. dot believe everything everyone tells you. if you get a setup from someone else (its possible) dont stick to it 100%. change the stats to suit you, speed the char up, ave more psi use, do whatever.
if a PE PE isnt fun, your doing it wrong :p
KILLER']err BD as much as i like you thats total BS.. i never use or used drugs on killer never used tech always been lowtech and always dit good in pvp and duels its total bs you need drugs and tech weapons to be good. and why the hell you need EVERYTHING in wep ? i cap my PE and got psu. and just pa level 3 since i aint drugging to level 4.
Never seen you do battle Killer, but okay, if you say you can beat the people I've described above, kudos to you. Personally, I have never seen it with my own eyes. A good player with described setup above vs. the setup you have.......doubtful that you can win, because of several important factors. As I said, unless you're something special at PvPing yourself (considering the pure PvP where everyone would be equal, like dumbass FPS' today) you've really got no chance against good players with druggie setups.
-Also right, you need the PSU, but other than that (hck, imp) shouldn't be an area for a RPE PvP'er because of the ROF.
-=Dredduk=-
20-10-04, 15:38
Hmmm i really to sort my rifle pe out...
whats pe's con weaknet? poison ? x-ray or hasnt it got one?..
e.g spys is fire.
Teh BlackDove is full of words nothing more tbh.
I know few spies that could whoop any t-c Pes ass regardless of the weapon of choise. I wouldn't go to the whole Spy > Pe or Pe > Spy thing because it depends on so many things, when you spec your cons and choose your armors you are leaving your self open to some other type of damage. I have seen alot of great PEs kill tanks and spies and then fall to a not even capped monk with fire spell and that is the case on everything. You can go and be mr. houdini and pull a perfecr hard capped consetup from your ass but wait oh no, there can't be one since there is not enough points to do that.
So you can go and say ppl don't know shit, but make sure you are not one of them. You keep praising your tech weapon choise for PE but still you make point that playerskill is everything. Can't one with alot of skill kill t-c PE?
What the hell are you talking about? Quit yapping about spies. Nobody gives a shit. wtf?
Hmmm i really to sort my rifle pe out...
whats pe's con weaknet? poison ? x-ray or hasnt it got one?..
e.g spys is fire.
PE's are generally weakest in poison. Fire is something they're definitely strong against (Inquisition armor is just plain way better then Duranit, so they usually wear a large amount of inquisition armor). But they also get enough con to get good Energy resist, and XRay resist. The only real weakness from their con is poison, though it depends heavily on the PE.
e.g spys is fire.
How come? there are alot of great setups where you get pretty much nil the effect of energy, xray and fire, and toss in a por belt and you are pretty much in balance, it is more about what you spec on.
Spies have the advance of being covered from x-ray damage which clearly PEs don't have, but usually PEs can take alot more piercing and energy damage than spies, thanks to their armor. So look at your armor and decide what you are going to back up with resists.
___T-X____
20-10-04, 16:10
How useful is damage boost in a PE's quickbelt ? And after one cast in PvP how much extra % damage can you then do ?(or is it dependand on the Damage Boosts stats ?
Weaponlore does not effect RoF
as for dmg boost, i love it when other PEs use it on me. I carry anti drugs. Lots of anti drugs. Most of the time, though, when I see it used on other people, if the PE kicks ass already, this may allow him to kick multiple asses by dmg certain high value targets. But from most of the fights iv seen in nf with it, it's not worth it too much.
If you are hunting in a pack of PEs though, it's great.
Dargeshaad
20-10-04, 16:31
Weaponlore does not effect RoF
Weaponlore does effect RoF....just not alot
::edit::
My mistake, it doesn't effect RoF on Rifles, but it sure does on Pistols....go ahead test for yourself. I know I did
Weaponlore does effect RoF....just not alot
No it doesn't.
HC/Psi = YES.
Rifle / Pistol = NO
http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=69477&page=1&pp=15
for the lazy amongst us
Pistol Frequency: 0.5(50%) PC + 0.3(30%) DEX
Rifle Frequency: 0.5(50%) RC + 0.4(40%) DEX
Heavy Frequency: 0.5(50%) HC + 0.2(20%) WPL + 0.3(30%) STR
PSI Frequency: 0.4(40%) APU/PPU + 0.4(40%) PSU
And it is still true.
___T-X____
20-10-04, 16:51
Weaponlore does not effect RoF
as for dmg boost, i love it when other PEs use it on me. I carry anti drugs. Lots of anti drugs. Most of the time, though, when I see it used on other people, if the PE kicks ass already, this may allow him to kick multiple asses by dmg certain high value targets. But from most of the fights iv seen in nf with it, it's not worth it too much.
If you are hunting in a pack of PEs though, it's great.
In NF your expecting it though, and your fully buffed. If a PE does it to an unbuffed person not expecting it then whats it like ? Is it the extra 50% damage after one cast for 60 seconds ?
How useful is damage boost in a PE's quickbelt ? And after one cast in PvP how much extra % damage can you then do ?(or is it dependand on the Damage Boosts stats ?
I'm not sure if I remember correct but : 1.2x for first cast, 1.3x for 2nd "stack" and 1.4x for 3rd. This is on mobs, but I assume it works similar way in PvP.
The damage ratio's are easy to test on mobs if you want to see the real numbers.
I don't think dmg boost stacks on people the way it does on mobs. But I don't know for sure, never seen s PPU try more then once in a fight.
As for not seeing it coming, well.... even if the PE has plenty of PSI Use, theres still plenty of time to react. I carry drugs in my belt, so its a hotkey away. But even for others: I keep my cursor for my RPOS over my anti drugs, I really do. :) So just upen up and dose. But other people have their ways im sure.
Damage boost doesnt stack on players - only mobs.
Not sure of the percentage, but i remember hearing 150% at some point.
With a high ROF due to high PSU, a pe using db can be very effective, especially recasting between reloads.
It ends up becoming a battle of who can riverdance on the keyboard the quickest
It ends up becoming a battle of who can riverdance on the keyboard the quickest
Isn't it always ?
Ozambabbaz
20-10-04, 17:19
Isn't it always ?
monks?
I meant PvP. You gotta be quick. I related the coment to ASDW.
Ozambabbaz
20-10-04, 17:22
yea, just hadda blurt it =P i'll go away again
___T-X____
20-10-04, 17:29
Damage boost doesnt stack on players - only mobs.
Not sure of the percentage, but i remember hearing 150% at some point.
With a high ROF due to high PSU, a pe using db can be very effective, especially recasting between reloads.
It ends up becoming a battle of who can riverdance on the keyboard the quickest
What PSU are we talking 100 PSU ?
@ ty, i meant moving and switching between db/weapon/heal/shelter/deflector/antipoison/antistun/antidamage/stams as well as keeping your eye on your health/stam and shooting the target.
Apu's/tanks can just point n click, hit a few boosters, heal or meds occassionally :P
@tx, as much as possible - experiment and you will find solace in your quest :)
___T-X____
20-10-04, 17:38
@ ty, i meant moving and switching between db/weapon/heal/shelter/deflector/antipoison/antistun/antidamage/stams as well as keeping your eye on your health/stam and shooting the target.
Apu's/tanks can just point n click, hit a few boosters, heal or meds occassionally :P
@tx, as much as possible - experiment and you will find solace in your quest :)
Meet me half-way mate, i aint got a scooby-do,is a ton about right lol ^^?
Doc Holliday
20-10-04, 18:03
TX jus ask my bro when he gets home later. he uses db on wyatt but hes pistol. it works too if u get in first then go at em with everythin u have. one the subject of drugs vs non drugs set ups i used to be of the belief that u didnt NEED drugs and could win convinceingly often enough without and for a while it was true. how ever when ever i duelled i used to gauge the win or loss against hp left on the winner. with a tweaked set up a ppr added in and the right drug combination ( it aint hard to figure really ) i found the advantages far outweighed the disadvantages.
who ever said about the 100 hack etc for a rifle pe well tbh u would have to have some really good skills to win with a set up like that. i know someone who had something similar on uranus but he is a cut above when it comes to pvp anyway so i can imagine it does work. how ever its very rare. most people just dont have ENOUGH skill to push them over the point where they can play with in essence a shit char and still win.
thats my take on it all anyways. for the record i have played a rifle pe since jan 03 and im still changeing set ups to this day.
who ever said about the 100 hack etc for a rifle pe well tbh u would have to have some really good skills to win with a set up like that. i know someone who had something similar on uranus but he is a cut above when it comes to pvp anyway so i can imagine it does work. how ever its very rare. most people just dont have ENOUGH skill to push them over the point where they can play with in essence a shit char and still win.
thats my take on it all anyways. for the record i have played a rifle pe since jan 03 and im still changeing set ups to this day.
Thanks. ^.^ Actually if I used PA my setup wouldn't be anywhere as close to gimp as it is now... but I can't afford PA. *shrug* Oh, I've been playing PEs since.. nov 2002? Spent a lot of time with pain easers, liberators and judges and they're my favorite 3 weapons now. Practice really helps in NC... if anyone wants to duel or see my char setup, name is Azrael on Terra.(Oh, I heard someone was named that on uranus after I made the name.. I come from Pluto.. if you wanted that name again, PM me and I'll try to work something out with you and a GM to give back your name). CM clan, Skulls.
Jesterthegreat
20-10-04, 18:33
DB makes a difference alright... for example a PE with a HL will do 100 damage per hit to any tank he comes across if he DB's him.
im not sure whether DB stacks on players, but even if it does its not worth taking the time to DB multiple times to get a small increase. do it once, recast if it runs if you want.
the best PE strat i have seen is DB - gun the legs. if they live through DB they are legless :p
im not sure whether DB stacks on players, but even if it does its not worth taking the time to DB multiple times to get a small increase. do it once, recast if it runs if you want.
DB does not stack on players..well not in nc1 anyway
have not yet played nc2 but thanks to Argie D
u shall be Seing me on terra soon
btw TANGENT WOOO!!
[EDIT]- pain easer +DB > u
btw who thinks termi is better than PE?
i recon PE is better mainly cos i can hit mostly every shot with it..duno bout nc2 though heard PvP is very different
cba to drug as a PE
id rather stay as my SF-PPR-Moveon-DistanceCPU3 low tech PvPer
maybe if i got an SA i'd consider going SLASHER PE
Ozambabbaz
21-10-04, 01:10
u can still cap PE aiming with a hundred HCK, providing you;
got SA?
base setup on buffs?
eat NS?
and gimp ur DB RoF a wee bit
DB does work well better with energy based weapons after all, and everybody has access to a deflector spell AND theres + FOR/PRC on every single piece of armor known to Neocron, i don't use it every single time i fight, but it does help
there are alot of great setups where you get pretty much nil the effect of energy, xray and fire, and toss in a por belt and you are pretty much in balance
What the?? If you say PPR I will cry..
I wish my spy could 'nil' the effect of energy dmg and xray/fire. LOL. That would be very fun :)
Maybe some points should be invested into resist psi? :rolleyes:
I dont see why people would want a rifle PE over a pistol PE. I mean, if you really got a fetish for rifles, have fun, but pistols are about 10000x more practical. My PE can hack 125, has 75 psu and more than enough lore to cap the judge. I wish the wep lore helped my Judge's RoF.... :lol:
My 5 slot DB casts soooo fast, I only have to wait litterally 1/2 of a second after the cast before I move again. I cant tell you how many times the DB has played a key role in bringing down pesky PPUs.
I am sorry, but to me drugging ruins the fun. I strive to make my setup the best it can be without drugs (save for drugging to put on PA, and letting its bonus keep it on). My spy is the only exception. KK forces me to drug the spy :mad:
Now wheres my damn stealth so I will have a reason to play my PE again!!! :p
Meet me half-way mate, i aint got a scooby-do,is a ton about right lol ^^?
Sorry for the slowness of reply - not too well tbh.
Erm yeah 100ish will pretty much cap out a 120 freq DB (with 65+ in PPU)
Whats a DB? In my world, being a Tank it is always a Doom Beamer. But I doubt it is the same here.
Whats a DB? In my world, being a Tank it is always a Doom Beamer. But I doubt it is the same here.
Damage Boost :p
Damage Boost..
Doom Beamer = Doomie.
Moon Striker = Moonie.
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 11:41
Sorry for the slowness of reply - not too well tbh.
Erm yeah 100ish will pretty much cap out a 120 freq DB (with 65+ in PPU)
O_o
My PE has 100 psu, and gets nowhere near DB cap (52rpm?).
cap's 50 afaik and with 100 and 75 in ppu i get v close to it
probably 120/75 would 100% cap freq on it
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 12:36
74 ppu, 99 psu and I get about 39, and it's arti freq.
Nope, cap is 52/min, and with my pe, i get about the same (if not less) than DJ on frequency 100 base psu, hits 110 with drugs (night + red)... err my pistoler that is :rolleyes:
Jesterthegreat
21-10-04, 13:06
I dont see why people would want a rifle PE over a pistol PE. I mean, if you really got a fetish for rifles, have fun, but pistols are about 10000x more practical. My PE can hack 125, has 75 psu and more than enough lore to cap the judge. I wish the wep lore helped my Judge's RoF.... :lol:
thats like saying why be anyhitng but a PPU / APU / hyb. its all preferance
My 5 slot DB casts soooo fast, I only have to wait litterally 1/2 of a second after the cast before I move again. I cant tell you how many times the DB has played a key role in bringing down pesky PPUs. 2 melee PE's (me and someone) killed a *** PPU last night with DB + Face scratcher claw + LLB2 :lol:
I am sorry, but to me drugging ruins the fun. I strive to make my setup the best it can be without drugs (save for drugging to put on PA, and letting its bonus keep it on). My spy is the only exception. KK forces me to drug the spy :mad: again personal preferance. ill be drugging on my PE because i like to squeeze all the potential out of it
Now wheres my damn stealth so I will have a reason to play my PE again!!! :p
PE's /w stealth was lame
PE's now need skill and cant run away as easily
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 13:34
PE's /w stealth was lame
PE's now need skill and cant run away as easily
Same to be said of spies now.
The problem is the way stealth can be and IS abused.
Jesterthegreat
21-10-04, 13:37
Same to be said of spies now.
The problem is the way stealth can be and IS abused.
i agree that stealth is lame as it is (i personally use it on my droner as a last defence)
IMO add a 10 sec recast time or something, stop stealth whoring
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 13:42
My personal 'fix' for stealth, would be a 5 second timer between using the tool and the stealth effect starting.
Number subject to tweakage.
Jesterthegreat
21-10-04, 13:45
My personal 'fix' for stealth, would be a 5 second timer between using the tool and the stealth effect starting.
Number subject to tweakage.
that would make stealth 100% useless to me as a droner :p
no resists - stealth is my only defence
i would also say remove oblit / stealth 3 (not sure about 2) so the recast time makes more of an impact
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 13:49
Without a delay, stealth would still be the get out of jail free card that it is now.
Whoring is a problem, but the insta-invulnrablility that it provides is a much bigger one (as I see it).
With stealth as it is, you would never catch your droner, there would be no risk involved in the sub-class other than the loss of a few drones.
Jesterthegreat
21-10-04, 13:54
Without a delay, stealth would still be the get out of jail free card that it is now.
Whoring is a problem, but the insta-invulnrablility that it provides is a much bigger one (as I see it).
With stealth as it is, you would never catch your droner, there would be no risk involved in the sub-class other than the loss of a few drones.
liez...
it currently takes about a second to draw / use stealth... bear in mind i will have been alerted by taking damage already.
chances are im dead by the time i stealth (or have 10% health and no legs)
use time is certainly an option though
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 14:01
These things are never simple :p.
Without the delay, all combat spies (other than droners) can opt out of a fight whenever they like. They don't have to commit themselves to a fight like other classes do. Pistol spies can run off if a close encounter gets too hot, and snipers will never ever EVER get caught.
Stealth should not be a get out clause, it should (imo) be a recce/sneak tool.
Jesterthegreat
21-10-04, 14:03
These things are never simple :p.
well said. its a matter of balancing stealth for all spy subclases (not including things like melee :p)
or if its to be given back to PE's, balancing it for them too.
i personally wouldnt like to be the one to implement the balance, there are too many options and im sure people will work out a way to abuse any of them
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 14:05
The main part of balancing is to realise the role of an item and to go from there.
If you define the role of stealth as one thing and balance it as another, then you will allways run into a lot of problems.
Stealth should have a 80% chance to instagib the user.
Problem solved.
Jesterthegreat
21-10-04, 14:11
Stealth should have a 80% chance to instagib the user.
Problem solved.
Holy Lightning should have the same (unless you are Crahn and have the lord Crahns blessing of course)
___T-X____
21-10-04, 14:12
These things are never simple :p.
Without the delay, all combat spies (other than droners) can opt out of a fight whenever they like. They don't have to commit themselves to a fight like other classes do. Pistol spies can run off if a close encounter gets too hot, and snipers will never ever EVER get caught.
Stealth should not be a get out clause, it should (imo) be a recce/sneak tool.
And para should be a defensive tool. Hey ho....
Dont touch Stealth
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 14:15
Dont touch Stealth
On what grounds?
playing teh devil btw
again personal preferance. ill be drugging on my PE because i like to squeeze all the potential out of it
Drugs are good for NF or a hit and run in NC/DoY and nothing more. You dont see people on all sorts of drugs at an OP fight (usually) because they are simpley NOT practical if your going to be fighting for more than 5 minutes at one time. IMO, drugs are useless for anything but a duel or random pking.
I dont recall there being that much whining about PE stealth IN THE GAME. It only seemed to be a select few on the forums. And since KK believes that forum community = game community, the whiners got their way. What should have been done was take away anything higher than stealth 1 from PEs. As it is now I have no reason to play my PE except to duel or maybe pk some, but not solo. They cant hunt high lvl mobs, they are useless at op fights, and I would think twice before bringing my PE alone to MB for a pk fest.
Before I could bring my PE to all the op fights and actually serve a supportive/offensive purpose. I could go out alone and PK if I wanted to, and when I did pvp I was not paranoid about losing either my 5 slot heal/shelter/deflector/DB. It seems everytime I die on my PE I lose one of them.
My point is, since the removal of stealth tools from the PE, our class has no use outside of dueling. At least that is how I feel towards my PE.
-=Dredduk=-
21-10-04, 17:42
I agree on some points posted above...
pes should be able to use stealth 1 and no higher then that or bring in a weapon that is high in dmg so a pe will actually be useful for op fights.
On a side note just got myself a termi... and found it alot easier then pain easer and recenlty just killed 4 people with it in pepper park 3 so im starting to like rifle pe now.
Jesterthegreat
21-10-04, 17:46
Drugs are good for NF or a hit and run in NC/DoY and nothing more. You dont see people on all sorts of drugs at an OP fight (usually) because they are simpley NOT practical if your going to be fighting for more than 5 minutes at one time. IMO, drugs are useless for anything but a duel or random pking.
I dont recall there being that much whining about PE stealth IN THE GAME. It only seemed to be a select few on the forums. And since KK believes that forum community = game community, the whiners got their way. What should have been done was take away anything higher than stealth 1 from PEs. As it is now I have no reason to play my PE except to duel or maybe pk some, but not solo. They cant hunt high lvl mobs, they are useless at op fights, and I would think twice before bringing my PE alone to MB for a pk fest.
Before I could bring my PE to all the op fights and actually serve a supportive/offensive purpose. I could go out alone and PK if I wanted to, and when I did pvp I was not paranoid about losing either my 5 slot heal/shelter/deflector/DB. It seems everytime I die on my PE I lose one of them.
My point is, since the removal of stealth tools from the PE, our class has no use outside of dueling. At least that is how I feel towards my PE.
i know plenty of PE's who are useful outside of dueling.
you moan about whiners on the forum and thats exactle what "PE activists" are doing.
Dribble Joy
21-10-04, 18:04
Drugs are good for NF or a hit and run in NC/DoY and nothing more. You dont see people on all sorts of drugs at an OP fight (usually) because they are simpley NOT practical if your going to be fighting for more than 5 minutes at one time. IMO, drugs are useless for anything but a duel or random pking.
I and many others use drugs at OP fights.
I cannot use my judge without redflash, I don't like having ppu shields (as they will be invariably weaker than my own self casts) and ppus don't often carry heat3, and I need that instead of haz3. So I need my NS for my br3 and to cast blessed def with my PA on.
I dont recall there being that much whining about PE stealth IN THE GAME. It only seemed to be a select few on the forums. And since KK believes that forum community = game community, the whiners got their way.
We not allowed to whine then? Must we remain quiet and let KK magically observe people feelings?
People that have a concern about the game and feel strong enough about it come to forums to make themselves heard.
If the people who did like it said nothing and let 'the whiners' get thier way, then that is thier fault that stealth is as it is.
The forum is exactly that, a forum.
A discussion and contact area where the community can discus and a debate issues.
The forum is the intended outlet for the communities griefs, ideas and opinions.
Thus the forum commmunity = the game community.
If people choose not to read them and join in, then that is thier fault.
Anyway, there was plenty of hate for stealth in-game, problem was that is was also a lot of hypocracy too. People did not want give up thier stealth. Like apus giving up thier ppus and it WAS manifest on the forums. Plenty of people did not want to loose it, as it was 'the only way they could compete'. Anything to make thier life easier/blur the skill factor.
What should have been done was take away anything higher than stealth 1 from PEs.
Why?
What would that have done?
NOTHING.
The length of stealth has little to do with it's problems. The insta invulnrability that it affords is.
As it is now I have no reason to play my PE except to duel or maybe pk some, but not solo. They cant hunt high lvl mobs, they are useless at op fights, and I would think twice before bringing my PE alone to MB for a pk fest.
Before I could bring my PE to all the op fights and actually serve a supportive/offensive purpose. I could go out alone and PK if I wanted to, and when I did pvp I was not paranoid about losing either my 5 slot heal/shelter/deflector/DB. It seems everytime I die on my PE I lose one of them.
My point is, since the removal of stealth tools from the PE, our class has no use outside of dueling. At least that is how I feel towards my PE.
What was the use during stealth for PEs at OP fights? Or before it?
Could you really act any better defensively or offensively if you could stealth?
What real use was it to a PE? N00b buff and then stealth out again?
The problem with PEs is not with the PEs themselves.
Yet again it is the effect of PPUs on teams and the relationship between the classes that is the problem.
Fiddling with PEs in order to fix that will not work.
On a side note just got myself a termi... and found it alot easier then pain easer and recenlty just killed 4 people with it in pepper park 3 so im starting to like rifle pe now.
Did you happen to kill a melee tank (wearing PA) with the termi about a week ago? Some PE without PA and a termi got my melee tank. My head wasnt straight at the the time but it was still amazing. :D
you moan about whiners on the forum and thats exactle what "PE activists" are doing.
I dont recall ever personally starting a thread whining about NOT having stealth. There were like 2 PEs who used the stealth 2 and annoyed a few people. So they jump onto the forum (because they lack the ingame skill required to get a stealther) and bitch about PEs using stealth. For some reason (still) unknown to me, KK decides to nerf PEs even though there were issues 100000x more important at the time. Boggles my mind.
I don't like having ppu shields
You would rather have your blessed def. and tl25 shelter than a capped or near capped holy shelt/def? O_o I am not saying that drugging for OP fights hasnt been done. What I am saying, is that a majority dont do that because it is not practical.
My point about the community is that you cant argue the fact that a large % of ingame players never come to the forums. Forums arent and shouldnt be required to have your opinion voiced. Likewise they should not be the only thing in deciding the will of an ENTIRE community. The people who usually come to forums about balance issues are the whiners who post threads filled with nothing but anger because they got killed. To them, if they cant beat the person with whatever skill they have, then their opponent should automatically be nerfed. I seriously dont remember PE's using stealth being such 'big' concern with imbalance in the forum community. Ingame the cry to have stealth taken from PEs was even less. "Blurring the skill factor" as you said can go both ways remember. While using a stealth may require less defensive skill, getting that advantage taken away from the class allows their enemies to require less skill in killing them.
Why?
What would that have done?
NOTHING.
The length of stealth has little to do with it's problems. The insta invulnrability that it affords is.
?? So if all stealths lasted for 5 seconds they would still be as good as one that lasted for 5 minutes simply because you are invulnerable for 5 seconds. I dont think so....
Stealth 1 spies and PEs are cake to take down, especially if their legs are broken or they have a para on them. Anything above stealth 1 becomes extrememly difficult to counter, especially in open areas. A fast spy or PE could run a very long distance to find cover before the stealth is gone. That was the reason people got so off the wall mad at PEs using a stealth 2.
As for the use of PEs at op fights pre stealth. I cant tell you how many times I used my PE for recon. The only way I could do that was stealth. If I was seen in local it was no problem because I could escape. Now I would not dare do that. Large op force > stealthless PE. smart stealth PE > large op force. I would also stealth inside the Op and confuse the enemy all the time. TL3 heal them, kill snipers not paying attention. Get ammo from the gogu :p
Yet again it is the effect of PPUs on teams and the relationship between the classes that is the problem.
Fiddling with PEs in order to fix that will not work.
Agreed, but your not going to get KK to rework the ENTIRE game when all that needs tweaking is one class.
Doc Holliday
21-10-04, 19:24
Stealth should have a 80% chance to instagib the user.
Problem solved.
well u should have the ability to telefrag some mother fucker just by running in to them then :rolleyes:
-=Dredduk=-
22-10-04, 09:50
Did you happen to kill a melee tank (wearing PA) with the termi about a week ago? Some PE without PA and a termi got my melee tank. My head wasnt straight at the the time but it was still amazing. :D
I remember killing a melee tank... where abouts did you die.. what sector?
[...]You would rather have your blessed def. and tl25 shelter than a capped or near capped holy shelt/def?[...]
Selfbuffed PE-Shields are equal to foreignbuffed PPU-Shields.
stealth 1 back plz...
ppl ony whine about chars when they can be good...PE with stealth was actually usefull but i also think PE's now r kinda pointless unless duelling or tl 3 healing ppu's...or mega drugging for slashers etc. PE is suppost to be all round char..it can go H-C and be usefull, go MC and be useful good buffs etc i dont understand then why they cant use stealth?
Pe's can't use stealth becuase it was abused. However, that being said, there are quite a few spys who abuse stealth just as much (if not more) nowadays.
QuantumDelta
22-10-04, 22:51
Selfbuffed PE-Shields are equal to foreignbuffed PPU-Shields.
some people still think this is NC1 patch 169.
Edit;
Someone Asked;
No I wasn't arguing with Sigma, just, reinforcing his point.
-=Dredduk=-
22-10-04, 23:03
Another question:
Are hightech rifle pes good?
Another question:
Are hightech rifle pes good?
Only under heavy drugusage.
Large op force > stealthless PE. smart stealth PE > large op force.
Um.. that's a reason why stealth was removed. It made PEs overpowered. You said it yourself. OMG now your PE loses to a full team... that's how it should be. I have always had a PE as my main char, and as much as I loved stealth, it was very overpowered. As you said, a single stealthing PE could stall/delay an entire clan by herself, if she was smart. I've done it many times and I'm sure I'm not the only one...
Oh, remove foreign-cast shields! That'd help a lot with balancing.
Edit (Just saw this post)
Selfbuffed PE-Shields are equal to foreignbuffed PPU-Shields.
They actually aren't equal. Foreign capped Holy shields are better than self-cast shelter/blessed deflector, at PE % at least. You take like 5-10 less damage or something with holy shields. Not terribly huge, but noticable.
superfresh
23-10-04, 09:48
Thought Strongsad's & Dribble Joy's posts were well thought out....
I have a rifle PE that I made ages ago. For a very long time this was my favorite character to play. PEs are very independent and quick to level. But I used stealth 2 and to be honest I got in a lot of fights that ended up stalemates - either I was against another PE or spy that could stealth the same as I, or I was up against a higher level tank that I couldn't kill and aborted. APUs were easy since I could nail them a mile off and they don't tend to take well to bullets. :)
Point being, I felt cheap using stealth 2, but without any the PE rifler is kind of a mess. Better off being a spy. But it would be a shame if the PE was innately a pistol class - every other weapon class has at least two options (tank melee/HC, spy pistol/rifle/drone).
Maybe stealth ought to have a TC and RC req?
2 cents.
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