View Full Version : Patch 113 & 114 Notes & Discussion
- Some people had invisible items in their inventory after the character transfer. These should transform into Milky Rens now, please remove these Milky Rens from your inventory.
- Fixed Hacknet Software mods and re-added them to the software vendors.
- Adjusted Range on vehicle weapons, specifically Glider & Trike/Chaincraft MG.
- Adjusted Range on Anti Aircraft Launchers.
- Tweaked rewards for research and construction missions.
- Greatly increased the number of parts required to build the Rhino Tank.
- Due to a packaging mix-up, the Twilight Guardian Supply Manager has been selling apartment keys instead of Hovercarrier keys. He received the correct shipment now and no longer sells the apartment keys.
- Updated the emote trigger list.
- Fixed client going out-of-sync to server on certain dialogue scripts.
- Fixed some errors in gambling NPC dialogues.
- Fixed server-side bug with ALLIANCE chat.
Hotfix 114:
- Fixed the problems with the sympathy check in dialogues and the Rhino Tanks Blueprint.
uhm... memory leak? hacknet database bugs?
...
good thing is that alliance chat is finally working (well, hopefully)
[edit] missing backbones, hearts, eyes? ...
all looks good progress so far
wooooooooooooooooooo!
i noticed my client go out of sync when i was doing the crahn epic
hope the server is up soon, i got to work tonight :(
Bugs Gunny
15-10-04, 15:10
All good, still no fix on hacknet databases or the next epic though.
And i hope the rhino price has not changed into standard "KK tweaking", meaning factor 10
I love the upgraded range on the anti air launcher, now i'm glad i took one over from nc1.
Ozambabbaz
15-10-04, 15:11
nice quick patch, thx coder team'n'other guys :)
All good, still no fix on hacknet databases or the next epic though.
And i hope the rhino price has not changed into standard "KK tweaking", meaning factor 10
I love the upgraded range on the anti air launcher, now i'm glad i took one over from nc1.
We're still working on the Epics and HN DBs. Factor 10 is pretty much accurate :p It was way way too cheap. You still save over 50% when building one.
- Tweaked rewards for research and construction missions.
Those that means that researcher and constructer now can level via missions to cap their characters or do they still need to go droner or pistol rifle before? If the mission gives 1600 xp per item you make it will take ages to cap ;(
We're still working on the Epics and HN DBs. Factor 10 is pretty much accurate :p It was way way too cheap. You still save over 50% when building one.
why bother tweaking when you cant download them anyway? just turn the existing blueprints into milky-rens...
Bugs Gunny
15-10-04, 15:22
We're still working on the Epics and HN DBs. Factor 10 is pretty much accurate :p It was way way too cheap. You still save over 50% when building one.
You see, i know you guys :-)
Oh well, not like i need that many with a driver that repairs 163.
Still, it's good that you try to patch things faster instead of waiting a couple of weeks. I hope the next epic gets fixed in one of the next patches as i'm allready sticking "reveler of the month" posters above my bed.
Not to mention that i ask my gf if i can "fix" her for 19nc each night :-)
Another day another patch. Small one but I ain't complaining.
memory leak memory leak memory leak :p
Nice patch etc...
Where are these Research and Construction missions anyway, never found one yet?!
Another day another patch. Small one but I ain't complaining.
memory leak memory leak memory leak :p
I haven't goen below 400meg free since last patch.
Should of fixed the WOC TBH, it can't be a hard thing to do, its surely jsut a little error.
- Fixed server-side bug with ALLIANCE chat.
Now add Trade-DoY. Please. My tradeskiller needs to feed his family.
Now add Trade-DoY. Please. My tradeskiller needs to feed his family.
it'd be redundant to alliance channel though i agree - i'd rather like to have 2 separate nc-trade and doy-trade channels (procity+cm & anticity + cm only) - because right now alliance channels ignores City Mercs completely
it'd be redundant to alliance channel though i agree - i'd rather like to have 2 separate nc-trade and doy-trade channels (procity+cm & anticity + cm only) - because right now alliance channels ignores City Mercs completely
Yes, it would be redundant to alliance, but i'd like to trade without being spammed by people shouting for reinforcements at Grant Mine, and i'm sure the fighters there don't want to hear about my great offers (10% off no batteries included) while bleeding to death on the GR hill.
And i don't think CM should be able to trade on either of the trade channels, they have to chose sides in this great war the neutral bastards. They are not a trade faction after all.
Bugs Gunny
15-10-04, 15:49
Cm not traders?????
Our lives , our whole beings are meant for trade, we ARE the commodity up for trade.
Say that again and i'll let you taste a sample of our goods
We should be able to get into both faction channels, especialy the trade ones.
Either that or set up a special channel for bounties, mercenary offers, body guard duty etc.....
there already is TRADE-CANYON, and it simply needs renaming to TRADE-DOY
Another day another patch. Small one but I ain't complaining.
memory leak memory leak memory leak :p
Small Patches are good
Very good
Very very good....
I hope they keep them like this.
is not exactly working for me. Did I miss something I should know?
They are not a trade faction after all.
I would say that their current faction loyalties make them exactly that.
there already is TRADE-CANYON, and it simply needs renaming to TRADE-DOY
Not really. Trade-DoY should only be accessable if you are in the DoY factions. Trade-NC for NC factions of course.
I would say that their current faction loyalties make them exactly that.
Mercs trade in blood, not items.
___T-X____
15-10-04, 16:02
Patches are good.
Why is fixing NeXT Epic mission 6 proving to be such a problem though ?
Ozambabbaz
15-10-04, 16:04
can we get a patch 113 bug thread going plz?
is not exactly working for me. Did I miss something I should know?
Try going to 91 faction sympathy.
It might be a simple rounding error with some scripts being more fussy than others about exact values.
Ozambabbaz
15-10-04, 16:07
Try going to 91 faction sympathy.
It might be a simple rounding error with some scripts being more fussy than others about exact values.
BT FSM and RSM tested with 91 symp and 100 symp + epic done, to no avail
Dribble Joy
15-10-04, 16:08
Small Patches are good
Very good
Very very good....
I hope they keep them like this.
Indeed, I hope that they stick to simple patches, not the huge ones.
Like a patch of small changes (tweaks).
Or patches of single large changes (like drones/item tracking).
There seems to be a problem with the sympathy check in dialogue scripts (e.g. FSM), looking into it.
cant speak to faction traders....need more fs !!!!!!
not FSM he always says that to me :p . the normal traders in FA....bugged...
grrr.....
edit: damn it thanatos....couldnt wait another minute till i posted my message .... but glad you know about it.:lol:
Patches are good.
Why is fixing NeXT Epic mission 6 proving to be such a problem though ?
My thoughts as well...I bet half the terra server is N.E.X.T waiting for the damm epic to be fixed
I'm all for patches :D, nice work KK.
...And i hope the rhino price has not changed into standard "KK tweaking", meaning factor 10
....
even when - would be 350k - isnt much compared to the 1000000 before.
droners ...
...
...are being worked on...;) its nice of them to patch things they can in small bits now instead of us having to wait weeks for a patch that has a big change.
Regular Small patches fixing small bugs and tweak things with BIG bug fixing/content adding patches every so often imo are better than months without at patch that does alot.
What's the point of playing now?
- FSMs are no longer usable.
- HackNet databases are down.
- Epics are bugged.
- Level 2 non-brain imps are missing.
So now what, I level my alts until such time as things are fixed?
And what happened to no patches on Friday?
Dribble Joy
15-10-04, 17:13
patch 113 bug:
my tradeskiller (BT, 92 faction sympathy) is now getting the "you dont have enough sympathy, i cannot serve you" message when dealing with BT Faction Supply Manager.
Known issue.
§FS§Red Wing
15-10-04, 17:26
Not really. Trade-DoY should only be accessable if you are in the DoY factions. Trade-NC for NC factions of course..
That would seperate the trading community unneccessarily, should not be implemented imo.
KK seriously need a new testserver for patches.
KK seriously need a new testserver for patches.
Not if it's like the old one.
Not if it's like the old one.The old one never did any harm, even if it could have been managed better. Some of the bugs getting into these retail patches are so trivial that they would almost certainly have been spotted and fixed if there was a test server with a modest population. Give testers an incentive to test and they will.
The old one never did any harm, even if it could have been managed better. Some of the bugs getting into these retail patches are so trivial that they would almost certainly have been spotted and fixed if there was a test server with a modest population. Give testers and incentive to test and they will.
didnt do much good either.
very few people actually tested stuff that wasnt setup/pvp related
didnt do much good either.
very few people actually tested stuff that wasnt setup/pvp related
Give testers an incentive to test and they will.
Can't think of a clearer way to say it. The last testserver didn't work well because there was no reason for people to do real testing. I've no objection to people using the test server to test setups and PvP so long as they also put in some work at the sharp end and hunt for bugs. It's just a matter of giving people a reason to do so.
The old one never did any harm, even if it could have been managed better. Some of the bugs getting into these retail patches are so trivial that they would almost certainly have been spotted and fixed if there was a test server with a modest population. Give testers an incentive to test and they will.
IMO it did do harm :
- it consumed dev resources
- it consumed GM resources
- it leaked info
- it was abused
- it drained people off the real servers at times
- it produced bad data because of versioning issues
- it gave a false sense of security
I agree an external test server can be a very handy tool (maybe even essential) but unless it's done properly it's a waste of time. The old one was the antithesis of everything it needed to be.
As there is no bugthread, guess I'll need to post it here.
Barkeepers sell 9 different types of Milky rens, 5 of them have psi requirements. While the addition of Holy Milky Ren Sanctum isn't a bad idea, I guess it's not intended to happen.
Most likely 3 of the other Milky Rens are other removed items.
I agree an external test server can be a very handy tool (maybe even essential) but unless it's done properly it's a waste of time. The old one was the antithesis of everything it needed to be.
I wouldn't go that far, but yes there was a lot of room for improvement. These new patches are good and very welcome, but it would be nice if they worked first time more often.
Databases and FSMs are working again. Thank goodness.
Rhinos went from 45k to build to about 200k to build. Still 100k profit for selling keys at 300k each...
Dribble Joy
15-10-04, 18:21
Databases and FSMs are working again.
All the DBs? Even the NC ones?
Thanatos- Did this invisible item --> milky ren fix also fix the recycling bug? In that bug, it seems that recycling causes the original material to go invisible; it's still taking up weight in your backpack even though it isn't there.
Has that been addressed also? Or was this strictly a transfer-related fix?
BTW, KK if I log in and see any of my gear turned to Milky Ren I will become unhappy. =)
Darth Slayer
15-10-04, 19:55
Ahh still Bugger all drone fixes eh...... :mad:
Oh the all important alliance chat is working however, well I think I just can't be arsed to log in and see..... :rolleyes:
Scorpius.
All the DBs? Even the NC ones?CA and N.E.X.T. work. I don't know about the rest.
My thoughts as well...I bet half the terra server is N.E.X.T waiting for the damm epic to be fixed
yup *sigh*
:)
yup *sigh*
:)
still not working yet :(
At this point, the N.E.X.T. epic is probably turned off because there's a problem with the Reveler, they just don't want to tell us. The N.E.X.T. Epic involves no killing and is unchanged (minus a few moved NPCs) from the NC1 epic. I fail to see how a minor glitch in the final mission could be anything other than a delaying tactic to work a bug out of the Reveler.
At this point, the N.E.X.T. epic is probably turned off because there's a problem with the Reveler, they just don't want to tell us. The N.E.X.T. Epic involves no killing and is unchanged (minus a few moved NPCs) from the NC1 epic. I fail to see how a minor glitch in the final mission could be anything other than a delaying tactic to work a bug out of the Reveler.
The cynic in me thinks you're right. But the cynic also thinks KK wouldn't really care if the reveler was bugged or not (beyond adding it to the to-fix list). :p
The Reveler was also in NC1 though so that seems a bit odd.
Mindgibber
15-10-04, 22:09
yes i think the same as IceStorm, think the reveler is not ready yet, same with the DRE apartment, think they will make a new design (i hope) and that isnt ready yet, so they need time, so the epic missions dont work,
or BD epic reward, not ready, maybe new drug with new stats
to fix a epic npc doesnt take long ...
nobody2004
15-10-04, 22:25
yes i think the same as IceStorm, think the reveler is not ready yet, same with the DRE apartment, think they will make a new design (i hope) and that isnt ready yet, so they need time, so the epic missions dont work,
or BD epic reward, not ready, maybe new drug with new stats
to fix a epic npc doesnt take long ...
Remember we're still in early beta.
Give them some time to finalize the retails final features.
What ?
YOU'RE PAYING ?!?
Huh !
Actually I do too :( :( :(
Tsunami FSM works, but as of patch 112 he sells nothing useful. Just standard FSM stuff, mnpu parts, ts liscense, and tl90 cubes. Not that it was very useful having Holovests, but at least we had something ; p
Crimson Duelist
16-10-04, 01:50
i would really like to see all the databases fixed so that we can actually enjoy the game more by getting the items from those areas
I've found the Construction missions to generally be okay. However, with 209 CST, when running TL130-150 construction missions and failing (needing double the TL of an item to guarantee no fails needs nerfing. Rediculous), sometimes the datacube explodes (bad feature, really). The mission has to be canceled and restarted, because you're now missing the blueprint.
Oh, and even though I don't research myself (I have a friend who researches and I sometimes use his researcher when he's not on), I know that research needs some SERIOUS tweaking. The bouncing box is a lame, n00b fix, but I'd be willing to put up with it if researching was vastly improved. As it is you need absolutely rediculous skill to not fail a job. Researching takes insane amounts of lube, especially with the crazy fail frequency even with 200+ skill. Also, researching anything takes way too long. At a certain point with construction, items can be insta-built. With research there's ALWAYS a progress bar. Figure that one out :rolleyes:
Anyways: nerf fail rates, nerf lube requirements, fix researching. KTHXBYE. These problems are very unconducive to pure tradeskillers trying to run these missions, not to mention annoying in general.
are we ever going to be able to buy apartments in MB ? It's still not working.
As it is you need absolutely rediculous skill to not fail a job.x2 the TL of the item, same as construction.
x2 the TL of the item, same as construction.
Yes, which is unacceptable in both cases. Especially since there's less implants that add to research, like construction chips for construction. Besides, it's just silly in general. I have 214 CST and I still fail and destroy TL 130 items. :wtf:
I've been constructing for a year and half, I know the ins and outs of construction, but I don't have the energy to type it all out here right now. Suffice it to say, yes I know that you need twice the skill to not fail, and stuff doesn't fail too often when you have high enough skill, blueprints aren't destroyed very often, blah blah blah, etc. etc. But it's extremely irritating to lose cubes, lose blueprints, use zillions of tubes of lube when it does happen. Especially with high TL items using so much lube for both research and construction, and taking so much time, and needing such insanely high skills. It still needs mega tweaking.
:(
Yes, which is unacceptable in both cases. Especially since there's less implants that add to research, like construction chips for construction. Besides, it's just silly in general. I have 214 CST and I still fail and destroy TL 130 items. :wtf:
I've been constructing for a year and half, I know the ins and outs of construction, but I don't have the energy to type it all out here right now. Suffice it to say, yes I know that you need twice the skill to not fail, and stuff doesn't fail too often when you have high enough skill, blueprints aren't destroyed very often, blah blah blah, etc. etc. But it's extremely irritating to lose cubes, lose blueprints, use zillions of tubes of lube when it does happen. Especially with high TL items using so much lube for both research and construction, and taking so much time, and needing such insanely high skills. It still needs mega tweaking.
:(
Its still being tweaked, I'm working on adjusting the time, and skill needed to do the job, as well as going to expand the scripts to help with failures. There will be a new option after you start the mission to get another bp/part if you fail and destroy one.
On a Different Note. There is now an NPC in the NExT HQ that temporarily fixes the Epic bug. For it to work properly you should make sure you have not talked to the HR before talking to the Epic Fix npc. If you have, or if your not sure, please restart the client to make sure your not stuck in the "already in mission bug". I'm currently working on the same type of NPC for the DRE Epic.
Yes, which is unacceptable in both cases. Especially since there's less implants that add to research
There's a whole one extra brain imp for researchers once you fit actual CPUs into a character's head:
Advanced Nerves 3, SS, Hawkings, FA Epic CPU, Glove. That's +15+10+10+10+15 =+60 from imps/glove.
Construction? CST3, SS, Hawkings, FA Epic or CST2, Glove. That's +15+10+10+10+15 = +60 from imps/glove.
And if you're LEed? Res comes out on top - SS/FA Epic/Hawkings/Adv Nerves 3 vs SS/FA Epic/CST3.
Even if you throw out the Hawkings, that's a whole 5 point difference between the two (CST1 vs no replacement for the researcher).
But it's extremely irritating to lose cubes, lose blueprints, use zillions of tubes of lube when it does happen.Use a barterer. Get things for 1/2 off or less on top of lower Outpost pricing. I get Big Packs of Res substance for 3550 and Cst Grease for 3872. Cubes are 63 each. This is on a 113 barterer with 43 INT.
Especially with high TL items using so much lube for both research and construction, and taking so much time, and needing such insanely high skills.This is how people wanted it...
Its still being tweaked, I'm working on adjusting the time, and skill needed to do the job, as well as going to expand the scripts to help with failures. They're be a new option after you start the mission to get another bp/part if you fail and destroy one.
On a Different Note. There is now an NPC in the NExT HQ that temporarily fixes the Epic bug. For it to work properly you should make sure you have not talked to the HR before talking to the Epic Fix npc. If you have, or if your not sure, please restart the client to make sure your not stuck in the "already in mission bug". I'm currently working on the same type of NPC for the DRE Epic.
give this man a payrise from nothing -> something
There's a whole one extra brain imp for researchers once you fit actual CPUs into a character's head:
Advanced Nerves 3, SS, Hawkings, FA Epic CPU, Glove. That's +15+10+10+10+15 =+60 from imps/glove.
Construction? CST3, SS, Hawkings, FA Epic or CST2, Glove. That's +15+10+10+10+15 = +60 from imps/glove.
And if you're LEed? Res comes out on top - SS/FA Epic/Hawkings/Adv Nerves 3 vs SS/FA Epic/CST3.
Even if you throw out the Hawkings, that's a whole 5 point difference between the two (CST1 vs no replacement for the researcher).Use a barterer. Get things for 1/2 off or less on top of lower Outpost pricing. I get Big Packs of Res substance for 3550 and Cst Grease for 3872. Cubes are 63 each. This is on a 113 barterer with 43 INT.This is how people wanted it...
I'm talking about viability and lower characters. Not capped players with MC5 whore characters. Depending on level, that's minus the glove and definitely minus the Hawkings, and quite possibly the Epic (since they will either have to have done it, or had an alt do it, or have bought it).
People WANTED the insane lube consumption, time, and mega high skills and whatnot??!!! When was this? :mad: List these people so they can be taken out back and shot. :mad:
I'm talking about viability and lower characters. Not capped players with MC5 whore characters. Depending on level, that's minus the glove and definitely minus the Hawkings, and quite possibly the Epic (since they will either have to have done it, or had an alt do it, or have bought it).
People WANTED the insane lube consumption, time, and mega high skills and whatnot??!!! When was this? :mad: List these people so they can be taken out back and shot. :mad:
With Patch 113-114 the rewards were increased. Items from TL10 to TL110 give rewards based on a 100% pass rate. TL120 on a 90% rate, TL130 70%, TL140 50%, TL150 30%.
That means you get the normal base reward, plus a varying sub cost based on TL of item. The current Reward for the TL150 Research is 30,000cr thats a 4200cr base, and 10 BP's worth of Sub costs. The 30% is what I got with a 125INT, 250RES character. Sub costs are based off buying big packs with a 5INT 64BRT character, since thats an out of the box Spy Barter.
As for when people wanted it, they asked for a way to level tradeskillers. and as I siad, the missions are not in their final stages yet. If you don't want to do the TL120-150 missions, stick with the TL110 ones.
As for when people wanted it, they asked for a way to level tradeskillers. and as I siad, the missions are not in their final stages yet. If you don't want to do the TL120-150 missions, stick with the TL110 ones.
I don't mean when they wanted the missions, those are fine. I mean when was it that people wanted insane lube, time, and destroyed cubes for normal constructing and researching. :(
I'm still not being given anything to research on the CM missions. I've tried two characters and a variety of different missions.
give this man a payrise from nothing -> something
Agreed
With Patch 113-114 the rewards were increased. Items from TL10 to TL110 give rewards based on a 100% pass rate. TL120 on a 90% rate, TL130 70%, TL140 50%, TL150 30%.Great stuff Lupus, thanks :D
Edit: Sigh, I should never be enthusiastic, it always comes back to haunt me. As far as I can tell the missions rewards for TL10 to TL110 may be based on a 100% pass rate, but they're also based on a 0% reward rate. I spend as much on lube as I get back as reward, wtf is the point in that O_o
Edit of the edit:
I'm trying to get the 300k I need to change faction. Lets say for example I do TL90 res missions.
7573 per big lube pack
75/200s of that is 2840 (ie the amount used per mission).
Reward 4000, profit 1160.
Missions needed to change faction: 259!
Approx time per mission: 5 minutes
Total time to change faction assuming I had no life and play NC2 all the time: 21 hours.
This is as a TL200 resser with no combat skills.
Or on the otherhand I could go tank and spend twenty minutes in a cave :mad:
cornelius5
16-10-04, 14:16
please lupus remove the barter from your research mission equation.
i really enjoyed my mediocre drone/resser, if i have to lom anymore willpower away imma cry.
and yes the reward is sad without any barter points spec'd, especially if you
fail. 1 failure tranfers your profit to a loss , and broke to broker.
sad but true chumby, maybe we should switch to pro-doy where all the good aoe lvling spots are to feed the family
please lupus remove the barter from your research mission equation.
i really enjoyed my mediocre drone/resser, if i have to lom anymore willpower away imma cry.
and yes the reward is sad without any barter points spec'd, especially if you
fail. 1 failure tranfers your profit to a loss , and broke to broker.Remove the barter & up the rewards to something sensible.
1100 reward for doing 3x TL90 bps, or get a tip of 5k for doing a rare for someone. I'm not saying missions should reward as much as player trade, but really a discrepency of almost 14x is insane.
KK seriously need a new testserver for patches.
I'm sure KK have an internal test server. (Check out the loader)
I'm talking about viability and lower characters.Because the few points a CST1 or CST2 give are such a dealbreaker compared to the mid-game FA chip/Adv Nerves 3/SS/glove option.
Not capped players with MC5 whore characters.There are easier ways to get an MC5 CPU than actually going to MC5, I find, and I already said a Hawkings isn't necessary.
Depending on level, that's minus the glove and definitely minus the Hawkings,Glove's before the SS. It's even before the CST3/Adv nerves 3.
and quite possibly the Epic (since they will either have to have done it, or had an alt do it, or have bought it).PE. Two days. FA chip. Done. No PKing involved.
People WANTED the insane lube consumption, time, and mega high skills and whatnot??!!!They wanted to level using Research and Construction. Did everyone honestly think the substance and cubes required to do high-TL items would magically dissappear?
You said you had been doing Research and Construction for the past year and a half. Did you ever build drones? TriDe Fusion Cannons? Did you ever res stacks of E parts? Did you ever build Rhino keys? Apparently not if you're just now realizing how much substance and skill is needed for the end-game items.
You wanted to level doing tradeskills. You got your wish. I've been saying for over two years that NC is a combat-oriented game and that Tradeskills are a secondary profession, not a primary. I live by that statement. None of my tradeskill-heavy characters lack a combat profession and they've all capped using combat, not tradeskills. Now you see why.
nobody2004
16-10-04, 15:43
Its still being tweaked, I'm working on adjusting the time, and skill needed to do the job, as well as going to expand the scripts to help with failures. There will be a new option after you start the mission to get another bp/part if you fail and destroy one.
Mind having a look here http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=116440
for some facts on research missions ?
(I created a separate thread so we can (try) to limit it to it's specific topic: research missions (shouldn't have mentionned cst, but well, to late ...).
Because the few points a CST1 or CST2 give are such a dealbreaker compared to the mid-game FA chip/Adv Nerves 3/SS/glove option.
Nevermind. Just cba to get my point across.
There are easier ways to get an MC5 CPU than actually going to MC5, I find, and I already said a Hawkings isn't necessary.
Like paying 100 million NC? I don't have a single MC5 part, so trading won't due. Especially not trading normal techs, because asshats will probably want 50 techs for one single MC5 part.
Glove's before the SS. It's even before the CST3/Adv nerves 3.
As before, I give up on these points.
PE. Two days. FA chip. Done. No PKing involved.
Right, everyone has the time or opportunity to do that? New players even know that's possible?
They wanted to level using Research and Construction. Did everyone honestly think the substance and cubes required to do high-TL items would magically dissappear?
Leveling research and construction by missions is fine. That's not what I'm talking about, nor anything related to it. What it sounds like you guys were saying earlier, is that early retail NC1, people wanted tradeskilling to require lube, and massive time, and massive skill. That's what I'm talking about. If that's the case, then :mad: If there was a misunderstanding between our questions and responses to each other regarding this, my apologies.
You said you had been doing Research and Construction for the past year and a half. Did you ever build drones? TriDe Fusion Cannons? Did you ever res stacks of E parts? Did you ever build Rhino keys? Apparently not if you're just now realizing how much substance and skill is needed for the end-game items.
Yes I have, and I'm still quite aware of it. I've researched and built all those things til I was blue in the face (well not Rhinos, but AT Troop Carriers). I do realize how much skill and lube is necessary for end game items. Building high level items like that was a royal pain in the ass, and very time and money consuming. What I've meant to say is that these TL 130, 140, and 150 research and construct missions just make it painfully more aware. Especially since items of those TLs did not exist in game for tradeskillers to become familiar with, previously. The TL150 missions require somewhere around 80 lube per bp/cst. That's insane. Not to mention that double the skill of TL 130-150 items isn't possible, nor practical. Lupus has said he based the rewards on massive fail rates, but still....
You wanted to level doing tradeskills. You got your wish. I've been saying for over two years that NC is a combat-oriented game and that Tradeskills are a secondary profession, not a primary. I live by that statement. None of my tradeskill-heavy characters lack a combat profession and they've all capped using combat, not tradeskills. Now you see why.
I don't care one way or the other about capping using tradeskills. If people want it, fine. If they don't, fine. I prefer to level mine by combat, for various reasons. The research and construction missions for me always were, and still are, ways to level sympathy and soullight, and maybe cap skills on certain characters easily (tank int/psi, monk str, spy psi). I think that capping on tradeskilling is a tricky thing to try and implement, but it seems like this is a decent approach.
Ice, I'm sorry but if you think research is fine then you don't play the same game we do. Tradeskillers in general are a wreck and need an overhaul. Research is just the worst of the professions. The only group of people more gimped in Nc2 are Droners.
I've gone on this rant before, there are many fundamental flaws in research.
1) Slottage is semi random, but is dependant on a constructor's stats to some degree. A constructor is rewarded for good work not only with slots, but also with his name on the weapon. Research's only similar work is in identifying rare parts, except the part is decided when you loot it. It has nothing to do with the researcher at all. When you think of a good researcher, you think of one that doesn't fail/break your parts. Researchers are rewarded for not screwing up.
2) In general research is only a middle step in the process of building weapons. It is the constructor at the end that is rewarded for the process. The researcher is just an annoying step to get over with.
3) With regard to substance and rares, a researcher uses at least 4-6 times as much sub as a constructor. Researcher has to identify 6 parts while constructor builds the entire gun once. Research also has a higher skill requirement to reduce failure rate, thus the use of even more substance.
4) Above a fairly low point, research skill does not improve speed whereas construction does. With 255 research a booster3 will still take 6seconds to research.
5) Building 50 Holy Heals is engaging because each time there's a chance for slots. Researching 50 Holy Heals is boring/tedious because you're just producing a cube.
I'm sorry for going OT, but research is the pits.
nobody2004
17-10-04, 02:33
The only group of people more gimped in Nc2 are Droners.
Not to mention NEXT/droner/researchers like me :lol: :lol: :lol:
Have a look here: http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=116440&page=1&pp=15
for some facts on res/cst, including a VERY interesting post from Lupus including some cst vs res comparison.
Nevermind. Just cba to get my point across.You don't have one with respect to imps. There is very little difference between Research and Construction bonuses available from imps once one actually selects/installs the imps. I used to think research needed another CPU or two, but with the addition of the FA epic it's no longer an issue.
Like paying 100 million NC? I didn't play on Saturn and I didn't pay much for my DS, a decidedly harder to get MC5 than Hawkings. Be creative.
New players even know that's possible?There's a place in the manual where it states new players should be handed everything on a silver platter? I don't recall reading that anywhere...
What it sounds like you guys were saying earlier, is that early retail NC1, people wanted tradeskilling to require lube, and massive time, and massive skill.It doesn't require massive skills - my main is 135 research in NC, 170 at a friendly lab. That's plenty. He's also capped with 121 INT when doing research. The biggest "problem" with res/cst is that people forget Mainstats matter.
The lube/tool requirements were added as money sinks by KK and failed miserably.
The time requirement I'm convinced is due to Research having only one mainstat vs Construction which has two and I agree that time required should be reduced. I'd really like it if they used a multiplier to put it in line with Construction, but I doubt KK will. It's been busted since Beta, why fix it now?
Not to mention that double the skill of TL 130-150 items isn't possible, nor practical.It's both possible and practical. It's stupid for end-game, but if you really want those last ten INT levels without combat there's not much choice. If you're at 90 INT and are pure research without having clanned, well, one has to wonder why. At 90 INT, one can get up to 291 Research (165 base + 60 from imps/glove + 50 from Clan-owned Op + 16 from PPU support). Do I personally think it makes sense to use TL150 missions? No, but I also don't agree with pure tradeskill characters. Is it possible and practical to do them? Certaintly.
Ice, I'm sorry but if you think research is fine I never said that. I've argued the imp "problem" isn't one. I think the Research timers are not tuned correctly and should be put in line with Construction's timers.
Tradeskillers in general are a wreck and need an overhaul.Only if you think a character should have the option to be a pure tradeskiller. I have never shared that opinion. I'm all for Pistol Spies mowing down people who don't tip well.
Research is just the worst of the professions.One of them has to suck. Might as well be Research. :-)
Just notice something, my bro just got a new computer a bit better then mine 1ghz, 128memory, riva tnt 32.
We where going down together to jankins to level when there was some mobs and a stealth my brother could see a black circle under my body all the time and it was easy to follow me, I realy hope this is a bug that you can see your shade when you are in stealth mode couse if the "light" pass your body you shouldn't drop a shade like you do if you aren't stealth mode.
Hope this will get fixed in next patch couse I don't realy like to go raid DoY if somebody can follow me :mad:
Are Experimental Heart 1's supposed to be unresearchable/unbuildable after the last patch?
Only if you think a character should have the option to be a pure tradeskiller. I have never shared that opinion. I'm all for Pistol Spies mowing down people who don't tip well.
That's an interesting perspective. Do all your characters still use LE by any chance? I don't ask because I have any issues with LE users, it's just that if you are still an LE user then little issues like character setup are far less important.
For most people in NC there is no choice but to be specialised, whether it's in combat or tradeskilling. In a clan my researcher would be no use if he also used pistols - I have a pure combat tank and a pure psi use PPU for combat. My trader needs to use every last point for tradeskilling so he is as useful as possible to the clan.
Specialisation is the norm in neocron. Cookie cutter > all. There are no rewards for mixing combat skills and trade skills on the one char; you just end up nerfing both. I really wish it wasn't like that, but it is, and KK seem quite content to reduce variation to 1990's fps levels. Would you like to use the rocket launcher or the rocket launcher?
You wanted to level doing tradeskills. You got your wish. I've been saying for over two years that NC is a combat-oriented game and that Tradeskills are a secondary profession, not a primary. I live by that statement.
Clearly KK don't agree.
Specialisation is the norm in neocron. Cookie cutter > all. There are no rewards for mixing combat skills and trade skills on the one char; you just end up nerfing both. I really wish it wasn't like that, but it is, and KK seem quite content to reduce variation to 1990's fps levels. Would you like to use the rocket launcher or the rocket launcher?That may be so, but my brt/cst/res/pistol spy has been doing quite well. It is really tough sometimes to convince people to let me build for them, but once they relent, I always provide nice results. A dude last night wanted me to go to a factory, and that was only after he couldn't find anyone else to build for him, but I have no GRs out of NC city, so he let me build his TL83 laserblades anyway. He was rewarded with a 3 slotter in 5 builds.
Usually though, I don't directly build for people, I use my own time and money to run off batches of stuff I figure people might want and auction off the good ones, and sell the rest back to YO's or the shop. I can make 200k an hour doing this, even if I don't get anything a player would want. :)
Darth Slayer
17-10-04, 16:36
Since Patch 112 after 5-10 minutes I start to lag badly FPS goes to 1-2 and when I try to quit game crashes. Only in DOY sectors If I can get outside seems to run ok.
Scorpius.
That may be so, but my brt/cst/res/pistol spy
I was just looking at my resser spy wondering if I should try this, but I really can't see how it would work.
Right now I have 194 res, with imps and a glove, 35 cst with a glove and 101 implant with a glove. If I shuffled stuff around and ditched the implant I could get to 100 base cst, giving 135 with imps and glove, but would need to reduce my research to a barely useable 179. If I pushed cst to 150, really the minimum needed to build highish level stuff, I'd be left with a paltry 164 res. Throw in barter at level 50 and res becomes nerfed beyond use. Not sure what the stats are on the FA epic chip but I won't be getting one of them any time soon anyway.
I could probably make quite decent money with a 150/50/164 spy but I'd be bugger all use for actual tradeskilling, I'd just be a money farm. Have I missed something, or that really the best you can get?
It works if you forget all about rares and high level drones (which are possible but not really viable). As those make up most of the proftable player-to-player tradeskilling I've never seen the point myself.
You'd also have to go the combat-LOM-trade route to do it in a feasible timescale.
I leveled this guy tradeskilling, believe it or not. 82 int and 79 dex atm. 82 brt, 110 cst, 80 res. Imps and gloves make those 135 cst and 120 res. I will push brt and res higher as I get the last int levels. As for viablility, don't forget factories and labs. An FA chip will be added to this soon also. :)
btw I cap quality on all non rares, and you would have to chain me up to get me to build drones. :p
I leveled this guy tradeskilling, believe it or not. 82 int and 79 dex atm. 82 brt, 110 cst, 80 res. Imps and gloves make those 135 cst and 120 res. I will push brt and res higher as I get the last int levels. As for viablility, don't forget factories and labs. An FA chip will be added to this soon also. :)
btw I cap quality on all non rares, and you would have to chain me up to get me to build drones. :p
As I said - if you ignore drones and rares it's fine. For all non-rare RES and CST jobs the only downside is increased failure rates.
Personally I won't ever rely on OP bonuses though and I'm not too keen on relying on PPU-Buffs either (even though I have a PPU alt I could use).
I levelled my resser to 82 INT (IIRC) purely on research, not even missions. It took a LONG time (all before the INT gain boost too). I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else though. Even with a Hawkins, SS, RES glove and an FA Epic chip he can only just self-buff to 220 RES (100% rare-safe).
If the new RES missions ever start working I'll probably level him further on the TL150 ones.
WoC doesnt work ..
tried to take quest with my fully capped PE , got 2 mil , got ceres disk , completed epic
WoC doesnt work ..
tried to take quest with my fully capped PE , got 2 mil , got ceres disk , completed epic
out of interest, is it the epic of your current faction?
out of interest, is it the epic of your current faction?
yeah.
WoC doesnt work ..
tried to take quest with my fully capped PE , got 2 mil , got ceres disk , completed epic
What does the NPC say? and what Skill are you going for?
i talked to DEX npc and he said "Your Knowladge doesnt meet requirements to recieve great honor" or something like that.
my friend got same problem when he tried to take STR quest , hes a hardcapped tank with 2 mil and completed epic
i talked to DEX npc and he said "Your Knowladge doesnt meet requirements to recieve great honor" or something like that.
my friend got same problem when he tried to take STR quest , hes a hardcapped tank with 2 mil and completed epic
dito on fully capped monkeh
For some strange reason, after I downloaded the Patch 113&114 the Neocron 2 wont start up anymore. It shows those startup things like "10tackle studios" ect but after that I just get a black screen. I wont even hear the music. When Ctrl+Alt+Del are pressed it says "Program Not Responding".
Darn, and I dont have to study this week... This is just my luck...
For some strange reason, after I downloaded the Patch 113&114 the Neocron 2 wont start up anymore. It shows those startup things like "10tackle studios" ect but after that I just get a black screen. I wont even hear the music. When Ctrl+Alt+Del are pressed it says "Program Not Responding".
Darn, and I dont have to study this week... This is just my luck...
Probably you've already tried this, but from what I know a reboot can help with those kind of problems.
Failing that, try and close off any background programs you don't really need running while playing Neocron to see if that fixes it, then try it again while running the ones you don't actually need but like having active. ;)
Yup, I know those tricks. I did reboot, AdAware, SpyBot, Norton One Button Checkup and Virus Scan and the last thing I tried was defragging both HDs. I still have the problem.
Now Im going to boot the computer up again and if that doesnt work (Windows can be tricky about programs sometimes) then Im off to Warhammer 40k Dawn of War until next patch comes out :)
I had the same for about a day after the patch on one PC then it mysteriously started working again.
quickly skimming over your post i didnt see thatd youd done a file check for neocron, try that and see if it works, sorry if you did mention it as i said i only skimmed over the post.
I didnt say it but yes I checked the files. Nothing wrong with em. Its strange, I shut the computer down two days ago, and now when I patched it up I cant get to the login screen.
I also tryied DX7&9, same problem.
Anything else I should try? I dont think reinstall will help since I got this problem after the latest patch.
Anything else I should try? I dont think reinstall will help since I got this problem after the latest patch.Try it anyways, maybe a patch fucked itself trying to update files.
Now this is weird, I restarted the computer and the game didnt work so I checked the files again and nothing was found, still the game works now.
Is my computer fucked up or is there something weird in the patch :confused:
Darth Slayer
18-10-04, 22:06
Ok today my screen (not rpos) goes all strange jagged lines and all browns and greens. I have to quit the game and restart for it to be fixed. Only happened the once however. This was outside almost ran into 4 bloody HoverBombers whilst blinded this way.
Scorpius.
High Tower
19-10-04, 18:40
Can some one give me a download link for patch 114? I have tried doing it automatically from the launcher and its freezes with 10KB left and i have also tried the FTP site for nc and its still freezes. This didnt happen with the rest of the patches and not with anything else i download.
Could some one just give me a mirror or something like that.
thanks
Darth Slayer
19-10-04, 23:20
New one Soullight don't appear to be working properly. Getting alot of Allied neutral Pking in DOY center and the people doing it don't appaear ro be getting hit with SL loss. Also I killed a Hostile Faction Runner in FA sector today and my SL / Fac symps did'nt budge. It was like killing a mob but with out the payday. Unless you count his inq 1 trousers.
Scorpius.
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