View Full Version : Should KK Implement the clan war system
DigestiveBiscui
13-10-04, 14:59
It's been talked about a lot, and once i posted it on the beta forum but nid closed it because it wasn't allowed :p. Anyway, should KK implement a clan war system, where basically, if you put a clan on KOS then u get no SL hit for killing them.
Now, obviously some clan will just KOS every other clan on the server therefore getting no SL, but to stop that, the clan you are putting on your war list must accept to this and then put you on theres - get it?
so, this a good idea or not? - i for oen say yes, because it helps us mercs out :p
As both sides need to accept the war for it to work I see no problem with it really.
It might also mean people finally get over seeing a single clan as a whole faction... Though I guess that's too much to hope.
I like the idea but the only person who would be allowed to add clans to kos
list would be the founder of the clan or it could be abused.
Like a low lvl guy want to gank some specific ppl and he add their clans to
kos list just to be able to kill them without SL loss.If the clanleader do it
then it is ok and whole clan would be at war.
I like the idea but the only person who would be allowed to add clans to kos
list would be the founder of the clan or it could be abused.
Like a low lvl guy want to gank some specific ppl and he add their clans to
kos list just to be able to kill them without SL loss.If the clanleader do it
then it is ok and whole clan would be at war.
That's already the case, only rank 14 and 15 can declare wars already, the big change suggested here is that it does more than simple add it to a fancy looking list.
Jesterthegreat
13-10-04, 15:06
yes. clan wars is a must.
and i dont think both sides nee to accept, i think as long as both clans are aware of it its ok.
if there was 2 boxes in citycom "waring" and "waring you" you would see someone waring you and discuss or take action
I agree :p, but i doubt the other clans will put one on their 'enemy list', because if they are a weak clan for example. And i think everyone agree with you, because people are getting pretty tired of when you lose SL :/, other doesn't care if they lose, some does...
DigestiveBiscui
13-10-04, 15:11
Like i said, some kind of rule has to be put into play so clans can't just kos everyone
therefore, both sides agreeing is one of the very few ways it would work :s
Major Havoc
13-10-04, 15:11
yes. clan wars is a must.
and i dont think both sides nee to accept, i think as long as both clans are aware of it its ok.
if there was 2 boxes in citycom "waring" and "waring you" you would see someone waring you and discuss or take action
No, as young Bicceh has already said, if a simple Declaration of War is all that is required, a clan could declare war on every other clan then kill their members with no SL hit; but a system is definitely needed, what with CM being Neutral to all Factions other than TG, how can they take a paid job against CA when it will affect their SL and FS?
Bugs Gunny
13-10-04, 15:14
Heheehe, right now i just foresee long times of being afk in my appartement to get my sl back up :-)
Jesterthegreat
13-10-04, 15:15
No, as young Bicceh has already said, if a simple Declaration of War is all that is required, a clan could declare war on every other clan then kill their members with no SL hit; but a system is definitely needed, what with CM being Neutral to all Factions other than TG, how can they take a paid job against CA when it will affect their SL and FS?
while they could indeed kill anyone without losing SL, anyone could return the favour.
if its by mutual permission only it can easily be ignored.
if i wanted to piss of clan X i would constantly attack them, causing them to defend themelsves and lose SL. i would refuse their offer of a clan war and attack them again. is this griefing? KOSing a clan? is it my fault i lose and they lose SLK for killing me?
Jesterthegreat
13-10-04, 15:19
to put it another way...
clan X has a symp gimp account which has a low SL runner to gain SL.
clan X refuses clan war invites because they can easily gain back SL / symp.
clan y keeps losing SL and symp fighting clan x, and with the "mutual agreement" clan war system there is nothing they can do about it.
ps man my edit rates are dropping...
why do i keep reposting? O_o
Bugs Gunny
13-10-04, 15:37
Ahhh, reminds me of the days i had a -59 sl melee tank on my second account :-)
City merc question is a toughy.
Maybe you could put a bounty on the clan - that way - any CM that kills a member of that clan recieves a No SL hit - and money (a set amount) from the employing clans account. - All you would have to do is add an extra box in the clan section of citycom.
That way - The actual clan the set the bount keeps it's hands clean.
I don't think there'es a way to make bounty show up when a CM looks at someone - so There would need to be a bounty section on the ingame forums or something - or you could just message a merc. - Or spam it on trade.
Works pretty well - if no one is to know of your bounty - you'd have to set up a networ of contacts - very shady and very RP.
Dribble Joy
13-10-04, 15:48
Clan wars have technically been in game for ages, but they don't work.
As said above, they need tobe received and agreed by the other party before they take affect.
Dribble Joy
13-10-04, 15:50
City merc question is a toughy.
Maybe you could put a bounty on the clan - that way - any CM that kills a member of that clan recieves a No SL hit - and money (a set amount) from the employing clans account. - All you would have to do is add an extra box in the clan section of citycom.
It should work, but it WOULD be exploited like mad.
People would just join CM with thier mains, use another char in an apt in a clan as the client and then put a bounty on every single clan out there, then go an a free for all gank fest.
Jesterthegreat
13-10-04, 15:54
It should work, but it WOULD be exploited like mad.
People would just join CM with thier mains, use another char in an apt in a clan as the client and then put a bounty on every single clan out there, then go an a free for all gank fest.
as will mutual agreement.
say Skullz wanted to war VENOM and wanted it official to not lose SL. well we dont want that. we have spent our NC life killing whoever we want, we can manage regaining SL just fine. this means that even with the new clanwar system inplace you stil llsoe SL killing us...
hypothetical situation of course, i got no prob with skullz
i'd put all major TG clans on it so we can gank them at will.
theres too many zerging nib clans in tg making tg look bad i want them to leave tg so tg can do what tg are supposed todo be professional freedom fighters not zerging lamers.
Dribble Joy
13-10-04, 16:17
The problem (as I see it) is the SL system, the whole thing is so daft. SL should be scrapped and everything based on faction symp.
As faction symp is and should be increasingly more important in NC then clan wars being not acepted would cause many more problems.
Gah, my brain aint working right atm, that was a mess. Got in at 7am this morning.
yes.... as hinch implies it will be used by lame clans that only wanna gank green without loosing sl
Jesterthegreat
13-10-04, 18:09
yes.... as hinch implies it will be used by lame clans that only wanna gank green without loosing sl
and if its consential only it will be abused by clans who dont care about losing SL (by not allowing the other side to war them)
there will always be problems
The situation were a clan will purposeful refuse op wars will happen much less then the situation were a clan will declare war on everyone just so they dont get sl hits. Plus at the very worst, you'll be in the same situation as now. If some jerk is killing you but refuses clan war, then just suffer a sl hit. No change from how it is now. The only way really to fix this is to actualy have an inteligent sl system..
The problem though, with a clan war system, is that it allows and even encourages the placement of clans above faction. I think this is why KK abandoned the implimentation of it. If you give clans the means to get around SL penalties, then there's nothing to encourage them to stay along faction lines. As it is, fighting allies/neutrals is looked down on because of how annoying it is to recover SL after a fight. Reducing the faction's importance infavor of clans is a step backwards.
Now maybe Clan Wars could stop SL loss.. but still give you Faction Sympathy changes? Sympathy is much more important in NC2 and having it be modified by your fighting would be a pretty good deterrant. A TG Clan that kills other TG clans will quickly find itself an enemy of TG. This leads to the interesting prospect of holding Clan's accountable for their Symp. For a time Clan Symp was used to decide if you could talk to your FSM. While this was extreme and I'm glad they changed it back... the idea is sound.
The average would need to be tallied differently, it should not be possible for one member to drasticly effect the average. But multiple people should have a noticable effect. The FSM deal was dumb because one member with say 10 symp would ruin everyone's symp by a good 30 or 40 points. So assuming a working clan sympathy system, there are some interesting possiblities. If your clan is killing fellow faction members, they won't be welcome at home anymore. Faction guards would attack them! On Venus this was handled by the GM's. A particularly infamous Tg clan was forcefuly kicked from their faction due to rampant ally/neutral killing. That kind of stuff is great, having repercussions for your actions is a good thing.
Jesterthegreat
13-10-04, 18:41
The situation were a clan will purposeful refuse op wars will happen much less then the situation were a clan will declare war on everyone just so they dont get sl hits. Plus at the very worst, you'll be in the same situation as now. If some jerk is killing you but refuses clan war, then just suffer a sl hit. No change from how it is now. The only way really to fix this is to actualy have an inteligent sl system.. possibly so, but who are we to decide whats worse?
The problem though, with a clan war system, is that it allows and even encourages the placement of clans above faction. I think this is why KK abandoned the implimentation of it. If you give clans the means to get around SL penalties, then there's nothing to encourage them to stay along faction lines. As it is, fighting allies/neutrals is looked down on because of how annoying it is to recover SL after a fight. Reducing the faction's importance infavor of clans is a step backwards.
agreed to an extent. anything that makes clan more important than faction is bad. however with people like the mercs being unable to fight without SL loss (except warzones), who would hire them for anything other than op wars? and lets be honest Terra now has all the Ego's from all the servers on it. no one wants to publically ask for help from another clan in an OP war.
Now maybe Clan Wars could stop SL loss.. but still give you Faction Sympathy changes? Sympathy is much more important in NC2 and having it be modified by your fighting would be a pretty good deterrant. A TG Clan that kills other TG clans will quickly find itself an enemy of TG. This leads to the interesting prospect of holding Clan's accountable for their Symp. For a time Clan Symp was used to decide if you could talk to your FSM. While this was extreme and I'm glad they changed it back... the idea is sound.
i think faction guards should react to faction symp... if this was the case then clan wars still losing faction symp would be good. there would be a real penilty (both from FSM's and from faction guards), but it would not make it a non-viable option (IE red SL - dropping lots of items, no safeslot etc etc)
The average would need to be tallied differently, it should not be possible for one member to drasticly effect the average. But multiple people should have a noticable effect. The FSM deal was dumb because one member with say 10 symp would ruin everyone's symp by a good 30 or 40 points. So assuming a working clan sympathy system, there are some interesting possiblities. If your clan is killing fellow faction members, they won't be welcome at home anymore. Faction guards would attack them! On Venus this was handled by the GM's. A particularly infamous Tg clan was forcefuly kicked from their faction due to rampant ally/neutral killing. That kind of stuff is great, having repercussions for your actions is a good thing.
arent FSM's based on runner symp now, not clan? im sure that came in a few patches ago.
but basically you have just said what i said t omy last point :) if fact symp efects important things (IE FSM / guards) people will be hesitant about killing allies, even if they are at war.
DigestiveBiscui
14-10-04, 01:26
god jest i got confused with the amount of quotes in that 1 post :p
Jesterthegreat
14-10-04, 01:27
god jest i got confused with the amount of quotes in that 1 post :p
haha... not as confused as you would be scrolling up many times to find what i was replying to :p
I like the idea of not being able to declare whoever u want as enemy......but it sucks when an ally or neutral decides they wanna be at war with you...
leaves you with SL hit or a dropped belt :(
DigestiveBiscui
14-10-04, 01:29
haha... not as confused as you would be scrolling up many times to find what i was replying to :p
hence why i didn't bother :p
Jesterthegreat
14-10-04, 01:33
hence why i didn't bother :p
shortened:
clan wars shouldnt remove all penalties.
make FSM (already is) and guard reactions based on faction symp
make clan wars sto SL loss, but leave faction symp loss.
this way warring allies wont kill your SL (keep item drop rules to normal safe slot etc), but you will be punished for it
DigestiveBiscui
14-10-04, 14:37
see, now THAT i can understand :)
as lore stated it would be abused but also we're not really fused about loosing sl over ganking greens anyway (couple of missions and some overnight afk fixes that) it'd just speed matters up
DigestiveBiscui
14-10-04, 14:52
as lore stated it would be abused but also we're not really fused about loosing sl over ganking greens anyway (couple of missions and some overnight afk fixes that) it'd just speed matters up
and when u have every faction but TG as an SL hit - then it matters :p
it could work, if they do it right
biccie the problem is theyre in my faction
oO
tbh this system should already been introduced month ago eh...
Anyways, i should work like that:
If Clan A sends War request to Clan B,
and CLan B accepts you get no SL/Symp penalty in any zone.
Even green faction friends should turn red then.
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that back when they added the 'clan war' option to NC1 via a patch, they stated in the patch notes at the time that while they had added it to the game it was not actually working yet. I would hope they could get it implemented soon. It would certainly have saved people a LOT of grief back in NC1, what with all the green on green clan wars that were going on. Damn it is confusing as hell when your fighting against 2 clans and one of them is green to you.
DigestiveBiscui
15-10-04, 01:18
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that back when they added the 'clan war' option to NC1 via a patch, they stated in the patch notes at the time that while they had added it to the game it was not actually working yet. I would hope they could get it implemented soon. It would certainly have saved people a LOT of grief back in NC1, what with all the green on green clan wars that were going on. Damn it is confusing as hell when your fighting against 2 clans and one of them is green to you.
yea, and they implemented the clan wars how long ago :rolleyes:
I vote yes, granted itīs only clan leader that can accept the war.
and that both parts have to accept the war.
only clan leader can propose war and only clan leader can accept war.
and again only clan leader can propose a nap or peace treaty, and again only clan leader can accept nap or peace treaty..
so in short, my yes is only if itīs restricted to clan leader only.
Jesterthegreat
15-10-04, 13:48
so in short, my yes is only if itīs restricted to clan leader only.
and mutual agreemet...
biccie the problem is theyre in my faction
oO
what makes it your faction?
if you didnt want to end up with zerging nibblets all over the place you should of moved faction, TG was always gonna be a big faction.
been tg since day 1 not about to change
been tg since day 1 not about to change
what about all those guys that have been Tg long time also.
bahh bet you would happily gank a lil TG noob just cos he was in your faction, you evil Tg you
yeah your right i would and all those other guys didnt start as tg in nc1 their clan came to tg at a later date :)
well as long as you dont send em to the city you can gank gank gank all day long
dont care where they go as long as it out of tg :)
One word: YES!
since there will be more or less faction allies/neutrals killing, imo there should be way to kill them without losing SL.
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