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View Full Version : The hacknet implementation



MrChumble
06-10-04, 21:38
I'm not quite sure what to make of hacknet. I've no idea where KK plan to take it (if anywhere) so there doesn't seem much point ranting about it.

I have some pretty specific issues with the current implementation, which I'd love KK to comment on (not that I expect them to :rolleyes:).

Firstly, is it meant to be possible to level inside hacknet? At the moment it seems ridiculously hard to do so. You need 30 int to use the basic attack software, so that implies your character will have spent considerable time leveling with a tradition combat skill already. My spy for example leveled with pistols, gimping himself awfully along the way to plow points into hack and hightech combat. However once into hacknet, it's not possible to level there, even if you LoM to pure hack.
The level 20 mobs give significantly less money and exp than the aggies my pistol-gimp can already take out...and they're also significantly more lethal, drop no loot, and have a much slower spawn rate.
The level 40 mobs kill me in two shots, and can fire a lot further than me. The only hope I have of killing one (and I stress one, if there's two there's no chance) is to run up to it and hold the fire button down, basically just praying that my spell doesn't misfire on the first half dozen casts.

Which brings me neatly to the combat system. As far as I can tell this consists of exactly what I described above. You approach the mob, you hold the button down, one of you dies first. As the spells misfire so often it's not even 100% certain you'll beat a 20/20 mob, despite being able to kill them in one hit.
I haven't tried any PvP yet, but as falling off = instant death I can't see this being much different. I sure won't be trying to circle strafe on a walkway that I can barely fit onto.

There's no mobs between level 20 and 40 (that I can find), you need to seriously gimp your real-world combat setup just to use the hacknet stuff - and really need to be pure hacknet to use it properly - yet there doesn't seem to be any return for your investment. I can't see a single advantage to leveling in hacknet over the real world, and there are many many disadvantages. Fundamentally, what's the point? Why have mobs there at all?

The last issues are more cosmetic/logical. Why is there up and down in hacknet? Why don't implants work? It's your brain 'in' hacknet after all, surely imps should be more effective not redundant. What exactly does the leg damage represent in a virtual world? Why does a head shot take off 75% of my health pool? How is it possible to 'fall off' hacknet?

Then there's the bugs. The spell cast thing - no idea if that's a bug or a feature, but either way it's insanely annoying. The health bug you get from all mobs seems to be magnified in hacknet...take a headshot that peels of 75% of your health, so you turn around and leg it, only to have your head magically repair and your legs fall off. Also the damage taken from the hacknet mobs is random in the extreme; a level 20/20 can do anything from 10 to 200+ damage in one hit.

As I said before I've no idea if the current state of hacknet is something KK are happy with, or whether they consider it a very early work in progress. Should I just accept that it's not finished and level in a conventional way, or should I be campaigning to get things changed/fixed?

Really I've no idea where things stand and would love some input from KK on this.

joran420
06-10-04, 21:51
i was getting loads of XP for hitting mobs with software in beta....and i didnt even kill most of teh mobs just got teh XP from hitting them....

MrChumble
06-10-04, 21:56
i was getting loads of XP for hitting mobs with software in beta....and i didnt even kill most of teh mobs just got teh XP from hitting them....
They've used their sledgehammer approach to balancing on the mobs since then :(

tomparadox
06-10-04, 22:03
I'm not quite sure what to make of hacknet. I've no idea where KK plan to take it (if anywhere) so there doesn't seem much point ranting about it.

I have some pretty specific issues with the current implementation, which I'd love KK to comment on (not that I expect them to :rolleyes:).

Firstly, is it meant to be possible to level inside hacknet? At the moment it seems ridiculously hard to do so. You need 30 int to use the basic attack software, so that implies your character will have spent considerable time leveling with a tradition combat skill already. My spy for example leveled with pistols, gimping himself awfully along the way to plow points into hack and hightech combat. However once into hacknet, it's not possible to level there, even if you LoM to pure hack.
The level 20 mobs give significantly less money and exp than the aggies my pistol-gimp can already take out...and they're also significantly more lethal, drop no loot, and have a much slower spawn rate.
The level 40 mobs kill me in two shots, and can fire a lot further than me. The only hope I have of killing one (and I stress one, if there's two there's no chance) is to run up to it and hold the fire button down, basically just praying that my spell doesn't misfire on the first half dozen casts.

Which brings me neatly to the combat system. As far as I can tell this consists of exactly what I described above. You approach the mob, you hold the button down, one of you dies first. As the spells misfire so often it's not even 100% certain you'll beat a 20/20 mob, despite being able to kill them in one hit.
I haven't tried any PvP yet, but as falling off = instant death I can't see this being much different. I sure won't be trying to circle strafe on a walkway that I can barely fit onto.

There's no mobs between level 20 and 40 (that I can find), you need to seriously gimp your real-world combat setup just to use the hacknet stuff - and really need to be pure hacknet to use it properly - yet there doesn't seem to be any return for your investment. I can't see a single advantage to leveling in hacknet over the real world, and there are many many disadvantages. Fundamentally, what's the point? Why have mobs there at all?

The last issues are more cosmetic/logical. Why is there up and down in hacknet? Why don't implants work? It's your brain 'in' hacknet after all, surely imps should be more effective not redundant. What exactly does the leg damage represent in a virtual world? Why does a head shot take off 75% of my health pool? How is it possible to 'fall off' hacknet?

Then there's the bugs. The spell cast thing - no idea if that's a bug or a feature, but either way it's insanely annoying. The health bug you get from all mobs seems to be magnified in hacknet...take a headshot that peels of 75% of your health, so you turn around and leg it, only to have your head magically repair and your legs fall off. Also the damage taken from the hacknet mobs is random in the extreme; a level 20/20 can do anything from 10 to 200+ damage in one hit.

As I said before I've no idea if the current state of hacknet is something KK are happy with, or whether they consider it a very early work in progress. Should I just accept that it's not finished and level in a conventional way, or should I be campaigning to get things changed/fixed?

Really I've no idea where things stand and would love some input from KK on this.
i agree.

but 20/20 mobs do 200 DMG sometimes O_o, is that after the patch? cus last night i was soloing 2 60/60 mobs at a time and not haveing a problem ( now i hear there hard as hell but i havent gone on yet ).

i agree on the fall dmg, the fall dmg is bullshit in hacknet. oh and to add to it the mobs do force which pushes you back and makes it hard to cast cus you gota keep moving forward or youll fall off the side..

i dunno why imps dont work, thats just dumb IMO...
[QUOTE i was getting loads of XP for hitting mobs with software in beta....and i didnt even kill most of teh mobs just got teh XP from hitting them....[/QUOTE]
kk fucked the XP, my spy, with the software was rank 20/5#, dont have money for better hacknet shit yet, and was killing 60/60 ** hacknet mobs only to get 1k CR and 6k XP, i get more damn XP killing a WB Oo...

Jaenus
06-10-04, 22:03
The level 40 mobs kill me in two shots, and can fire a lot further than me.
If you mean the Infected Storage mobs then either they're bugged or they're supposed to hit a lot harder than other hacknet mobs. It's almost as if the defence software doesn't work in there.

As for misfires I only get that when they go out of range - which being able to float freely about the place they do quite often.

From what I've seen there are mobs at rank 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120 and a fabled one I've never seen myself thats 127. It's a very steep curve but at the highest levels there are things to level off, you just can't power level.

joran420
06-10-04, 22:05
rofl @ 127 one

teh Ping of Death

we all know that one all to well

MrChumble
06-10-04, 22:06
I've only done PvM into the infected storage areas, I assumed we were meant to level there :D

msdong
06-10-04, 22:26
and dont forget to have different mobs. everything look the same but the numbers on the mob.

i wonder how anyone make it after the patch without V.3 soft to reach an uplink.

PvP is just instant kill because when u see the guy in your local you death. the moving is just to fast for the local to update.

Birkoff
06-10-04, 22:48
NONONO only the 20/20 mobs needa NERF.

40/40/ 60/60 80/80 100/100 are perfect.
The 120/120 is WELL over powered... but it should be :) its a ping of death :) (it is killable)

im pure hack and nearly pure TC and i can kill 60/60 mobs with ease with capped lvl 2 software.

All they have to do is implement stealing itesm in hacknet form HQs :)

§FS§Red Wing
06-10-04, 22:54
All turretlike mobs are overpowered, even a nearly capped spy optimized for HackNet can't get past a 100/100 turret...only run that is, don't even think about fighting. Those 60/60 in the data storages are also way off.

tomparadox
06-10-04, 23:25
and a fabled one I've never seen myself thats 127. i saw it, it was siting ontop of a firewall, i was like O_O. was green to me and dident shoot me, was on the way to NC from CM DNS thing...


edit, heres a screenie of the 127/127 mob.


http://forum.neocron.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6081&stc=1

MrChumble
06-10-04, 23:59
Well after quite a lot of further play, I have to say things aren't nearly as bad as I thought.

I got into a team with another guy, and we spent a very lucrative two hours or so running through the nc travel areas taking down the mobs between us. The 60/60 tcmp packets are pretty tough, but not too bad, nothing at all like as hard as the stuff in the infected storages. I'd even go as far as to say they're maybe a little too weak, but only a little bit KK, no need to get out the nerf bat. Can I just stress that again, a little bit weak. I do hate to go on but you know what KK are like with such things :D

Anyway the exp was good, I did ok with my gimpy half hack half pistol setup, and the other guy was ripping them pretty damn hard with his pure hack setup.

A much happier wumble is now heading off to bed, 12 int levels the richer. By god if there's a rollback there's gonna be hell to pay ;)