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Shinto
05-10-04, 00:55
edit: advance apoligies didnt realise id typed so much, thanks for reading whole post if you do :)

since NC started, apart from the speed nerf in patch 160(?) tanks havnt really changed much.

im just wondering what other people think of HCs now, what they would like changing or would they want anything changing?

ive seen tanks for from reverance to meh, i remember lot of old tanks, but new ones i dont recall so much, tanks have seemingly lost that hero(or villan) quality they once had.

1:i want a few things for tanks, *** is of course one of them, i think all classes should be able to obtain this, and as it is, tanks are the only class who cant remotly reach it, yet once upon a time they could.

i know people will go well why would you want to have that as you get less XP blah blah, i think once you get the cap you dont do THAT much hunting, and even with a rank of 76+ you can still get those much needed techs of *** mobs( i know cos i do it on my hybrid with rank 90+), its a status, and shows you are high level using the top end rares of your class, and i think we should get this.

2:also tanks to cap there weapons even remotly(damage/freq/aiming)they have to basically throw everything in HC.

i throw lot less in to rifle on my spy yet get 70+ rank, however spies also use weapon lore, which tanks dont really use.

instead tanks are pretty much all HC for there weapon stats, how about keeping that, but not needing as much to get the high end on the weapons.

i mean on my tank i have(when im capped, GG kk for rollback)herc/marine/moveon/bez3/hardback and PA4 plus taking beast im getting over 230 HC, i cap all but aiming iirc and i think im close on that.

however no other class throws so much into there skill for so little gain.

i think this should be adjusted so that tanks can invest more in those other skills in there str subskill(but not to the point were they are able to have capped melee also).

3:one thing i though of also was runspeed, now HC tanks got the runspeed nerf as mentioned up top long time ago, tho now you see melee tanks, similar amount of damage, no aim needed, use of freezer and runs like the wind.
maybe tanks should get a slight(not asking for total)run speed nerf, always feel like a slow moving duck(not exactly a sitting duck :p )against monks expesically, tho im not 100% if this is good idea or not, other classes would proberbly complain, thoughts on that one?

4:coloured PA back(see my previous post in this forum)

5:one thing i wanted tanks to have was a TL115 DIRECT damage weapon, i originally proposed for doombeamer to be made direct, however some people disagreed on this.

so my thoughs was, CS is THE tank weapon, its the tank weapon that people want, how about upping it to TL115 in line with DG and perhaps dropping doom beamer to 105 where CS is now.

just a though.

ill leave it there for now see what you guys post on this.

hey maybe if we get some good ideas for tanks and can agree on stuff i might try getting KKs attention as ive been posting for tanks to get stuff long time

aditional: before anyone says that ceres skills may help the tank with above points we would have to wait and see for that

MaGn0lia
05-10-04, 08:19
There are very very good points, my tank is the oldest char I have and he is still not capped, very much because I haven't played with it that much. There is nothing to achieve there, nothing to look forward, a tank is a tank, you can't try different setups nor different weapons and such, it's just the same chips the same weapons and so on.

I'm not saying that tanks are not fun to play, but I think tanks should get something innovative (it's about time too), I haven't tought it so much as of late, so I can't really chip in some good things.

But one thing I have allways tought is the huge size of the gatlin rifles, and the idea struck me, why not have a rifle type that needs like str and r-c, or something.

It would rock so much, and maybe there could be some more things like the gat rifle, like a gatlin plasma and railgun, I don't know, watch judge dredd, that is where this game has been ripped anyway tbh. And play some more cyberpunk :eek:

But remember, not that tank hell that was back in the beta4 and storm lasers :D

[TgR]HusK
05-10-04, 21:15
Agreed here, Been a tank most of my gametime, but thats more or less out of refusal to change - and because of RP reasons...

I think the speed drain when drawing a hc gun should be decreased slightly.
I think the CS needs a TL upgrade
I think a total cap should become possible (its really impossible to cap ALL stats, atleast one of em keeps going up till the last point I managed to get for HC/WEP somehow)

I think a pistol tank should become more viable - just make sure they don't outweight the hc tanks, also I think melee should get a nerf till they are around the same quality of gunning as HC is - this making it possible for the tank player to choose melee, heavy combat or pistols - just by detirming their play style, not because one of them is best.

And I agree they need something cool, the difficult thing as always is making sure its not breaking the overal balance, but they really need some loving to make them a more intresting character to play.

How about... thinking of something opposing the stealth tool... some glasses for the helmet slot that allow the tank to track stealthed players, but make normal not stealthed players a bit hard to see at the same time.
Ideal for hunting stealthers, but in danger of getting killed by that not stealthed person you just missed.

One problem keeps remaining... for all characters, for all play styles.
Local List. I think Local should get more limited allowing for hide and seak.
Either it should get increased so much that there is no telling where the person is hiding, OR it should get decreased so much that the person hiding should be really near! (in other words, either 50-75% of a zone or just 5 meters away)

What you guys think about these suggestions?

polarbear
06-10-04, 08:59
i think once you get the cap you dont do THAT much hunting, and even with a rank of 76+ you can still get those much needed techs of *** mobs

well.. i agree, it would be nice to have that rank for the style factor - BUT with WoC i prefer the exp :p



i mean on my tank i have(when im capped, GG kk for rollback)herc/marine/moveon/bez3/hardback and PA4 plus taking beast im getting over 230 HC, i cap all but aiming iirc and i think im close on that.


try herc/marine/moveon/meele3/hardback and PA 3 (maybe + beast).. maybe you`ll be able to fullcap ur CS...

4 fun i gave my tank [100< wpl + 245 hc] which equals full cap of cs but not full cap of the Doombeamer which is a pain in the ass!



so my thoughs was, CS is THE tank weapon, its the tank weapon that people want, how about upping it to TL115 in line with DG and perhaps dropping doom beamer to 105 where CS is now.

once upon a time the doombeamer was THE tank weapon!
with db I was able to more dmg to a mob than an apu -but kk didn`t like it...

mfg n0DaY // pOlarbear - TANKEH 4ever!

notneo
06-10-04, 09:18
i remember when tanks were the uber fighting force,now there just cannon fodder

polarbear
06-10-04, 09:55
i remember when tanks were the uber fighting force,now there just cannon fodder

i won`t bet on that! i think the cs got a little bit stronger.
anyway..in my eyes the tank has quite a good balancing between
resi + hlt + dmg output

i think the runspeed is quite ok if you think about how heavy the cannon is supposed to be. You may feel that ur pretty slow.. but watch the other HC-tanks - they run pretty fast around u (probably without having more athl / agl than u have). U just FEEL that you ARE so damn slow! but u really aren`t...but may be a bit...hmm... no!.... i think its fine!

IF YOU COMPARE HC TANKS TO APUS:
apus got a high dmg outpust but a relative low ammount of hlt + resi so they have to be a little faster.

IF YOU COMPARE HC TANKS TO MC TANKS:
mc tanks have to hit more often than a hc-tank to do the same ammount of damage ( at least that`s what i think). So i guess it`s their right to be faster.

!!!NOTE 1: when a ppu comes into action - BALANCING is almost useless!!!
:( ...but back to topic!

mfg n0DaY // pOlarbear - Tankeh 4eVer

Shinto
06-10-04, 12:30
well.. i agree, it would be nice to have that rank for the style factor - BUT with WoC i prefer the exp
well with a rank of 76 say, since for WoC you have to fight 127/127 mobs, which is a diffrence of 51 ranks which means they are red rank to you so you still get the good xp from them.

i mean im not asking for tanks to get 100 ranks, just 76-85 kinda ranks would be cool.

i gotta few pics around of when tanks had 3 stars and some from test server when they allowed overcapping and tanks could get 3 stars there.

i just dont understand why KK wont give tanks stuff like this.

@ Husk: they all look cool stuff, i remember the libby tanks early retail, they were cool, would it not make libby PEs redundent in the current play style of neocron tho?

notneo: ya once tanks were the ultimate pk machines, it wasnt xx with ppu support, it was a good single tank, and they were able to go do killings onthere own.

many a time i remember WithSlitWrists pking solo at the MB, ahh happy days.

but now the glory days of the tank are behind.

i wonder if anyone from Kk would reply to me if i bugged them about tanks :)

Bugs Gunny
06-10-04, 12:44
The days of HC tanks are over.

Melee tanks now rule the world.

Shinto
06-10-04, 14:50
The days of HC tanks are over.

Melee tanks now rule the world.
say that kind of thing again and ill slap you :p

Bugs Gunny
06-10-04, 15:13
HC tanks are the neanderthals of Neocron :-)

Melee tanks are now the überhumans.

And i know, i'm a HC tank :-)

tiikeri
07-10-04, 02:49
Adding my opinions too (like s1 would really care)


IF YOU COMPARE HC TANKS TO MC TANKS:
mc tanks have to hit more often than a hc-tank to do the same ammount of damage ( at least that`s what i think). So i guess it`s their right to be faster.

Agree 100% HC tanks get range and damage, melees get speed and resists(and the nice netcode...</sarcasm>. I think it's quite balanced atm. I have dueled quite a lot against good HC tanks and more or less they have ended 50/50. And i consider myself as good meleetank. Then ppl also whine about the HC tanks reticle. Yes, i hate the reticle, but if you master it you own. And to be uber on melee tank you gotta move like one greased mofo, but while running around ur enemy really fast, it also screws your own aiming.

+ There has been loads of whine about shockers, yes they might slow you down really badly, but not as bad when you get your feet knocked with CS.
So 50/50 there too. Scenario #1: HC tank sees meleetank running towards him, pulls out CS and makes succesful hit and breaks meleetanks feet. HC tank wins. Scenario #2: You failed to hit meleetanks feet, he runs to you and gets you shocked while having 1/2 / 2/3 health left after you hit few times with your CS. Even now HC tank has about 50/50 change to win the fight. I call it a draw with HC vs MC tanks.
Scenario #3: Meleetank sneaks you up behind corner, he doesn't even have to shock you to win. Close combateer should win ranged fighter in close combat. - Oh really..

. Pistoltanks.. well .. gimps are gimps. Tanks should be based on Strenght, not Dexterity. So.. imo cookiecutter setups don't really need improvement.

And yes. Tanks need higher CR. 58/ and ** isn't enough. Ppl wants 76+/ ***. Can s 1 remember what that some GM had with his "overcapped"-skills? it was around 6x/ right?

Coloured PA:s ... yes, yes, YES,YES,YES,YESYESYES!!!!111oneoneelevenhundredeleven - The possibility to use outfitter to determinate your PAs colour needs implementing ASAP.

K.. that's about it.. prolly forgot tenmillion things i could have wrote here, but nobody likes to ready my stuff anyways.

also small addition. I have been MC-tank my whole short NC-career.

Sigma
07-10-04, 03:24
As long as a Pistol-Spy does the same Amount of damage as my HC-Tank, I think the speedmalus should be removed.

Xeno LARD
07-10-04, 10:57
HC tanks are waaaay better than melee even though i havent played my tank as much as id like i still think some of the originalchanges proposed could be implimented. obviously the best setup you can get (IMO) is Herc Marine MOVEON Resistor

i like the idea of making cs tl 115 .... it'll do more damage ... but it'll be harder to cap .... which will directly nerf a lot of tanks ... so be careful

Shinto
07-10-04, 12:36
HC tanks are waaaay better than melee even though i havent played my tank as much as id like i still think some of the originalchanges proposed could be implimented. obviously the best setup you can get (IMO) is Herc Marine MOVEON Resistor

i like the idea of making cs tl 115 .... it'll do more damage ... but it'll be harder to cap .... which will directly nerf a lot of tanks ... so be carefuli disagree on HC being way better.

i lommed to melee a few months ago(again) just to test new melee power, and i was owning more than i ever did with HC it was just so easy and i didnt even have a shocker.
however i liked HC so went back.

i can still kill people but it was always easier as melee. just my opinion on that.

at Wannabe:it was a pic i posted on the forum about the NC1 party thing and Carb with his over capped GM char with a fully art doombeamer got 69 combat rank.

lol i can get higher than that on my 1/2 assed spy

as for the CS, sure it would nerf some tanks, but only cos they dont have the str to use it properly or the HC to cap it, if they cant use it they always have thte ravager which is a great weapon.

edit:http://ezzaneocron.20megsfree.com/images/carbdoom.jpg
seems thats as high as a tank can go, i know quite a while ago with over capped skills tanks could reach ranks of 80-95

tiikeri
08-10-04, 00:07
Oh yeah, that was it :) couldn't just remember where it was.
But 255 WPL, and 255 HC gets you up to 69/ ... kinda poor if i may say.

Capt. Rik
08-10-04, 12:35
I agree with pretty much all that has been said here. My tank is my main guy. Been HC pretty much all the way. Tried MC and hated it.

An interesting addition, this is a tank hybrid Clownstopper made up. You can cap the CS/Rav and cap Thunderbolt/PoB.

Sigma
09-10-04, 02:05
[...]i know quite a while ago with over capped skills tanks could reach ranks of 80-95

Early Retail Tanks had a CBR of 90/xx with a Doombeamer and Fullcap, no overcapping needed. :(

Eraser SG
09-10-04, 18:46
@Capt. Rik:

Nice setup, just show me how you are going to get 2 herc cpus into one tank-head and i'll buy it :)

(Although you will lack the extra-itch in pvp while fighting this way, and you will be doomed into Pistol/Rifle-PE-Style Drug-Eating for almost anything).

Lisa
09-10-04, 19:43
No, sorry not TL-115 for the CS. Not more than TL-110. I want to be able to use it without a PA-3, if I like to and I don't have a Hercules and don't need one at the moment.

The Ravager is no alternative. Ravager point&click infight sucks. I hate it. Ravager is meant to be long range and I don't want to ******** a weapon like that.

Lisa
09-10-04, 21:42
Ok, I forgot the backbone bonus (+5 str), so I think I could live with CS = TL-115. Sorry :angel:

Shinto
09-10-04, 22:04
you can get 115 without PA not that hard you might have to change setup a bit.

but hey concidering i wear PA4 no big deal.

and ravager is a good altarnative, as ive been hunting a fair bit ive had to use my ravager for most PvP and despite my system problems(thats for another thread)i still kill with it

also theres a TL110 plasma wave in the CA database tho dont know what its like not got my hands on one yet

Capt. Rik
09-10-04, 23:27
@Capt. Rik:

Nice setup, just show me how you are going to get 2 herc cpus into one tank-head and i'll buy it :)

(Although you will lack the extra-itch in pvp while fighting this way, and you will be doomed into Pistol/Rifle-PE-Style Drug-Eating for almost anything).

Yeah, sorry. Clownstopper explained that - one of the Hercs should bea Marine - it's only 1 less STR :D

El Jimben
10-10-04, 22:25
Clownstopper's setup is good but how many of us wanna PvP with CS/RAV & POB/BOC/Thunderbolt. I think it's good enough to be moslty H-C but with a few lvls in M-C + lvl3 eye + moveon + PPR + Marine + Herc, u can still use Thunderbolt and pwn ppl. I have Advanced Movement Controller 3 in atm and my resists are still all above soft cap & if I only have enough M-C for the shocker I don't suffer much on H-C weapons without the Herc. I don't have the skills emulator so I can't post my current setup, can some1 post me the link so I can get it?

Spoon
16-10-04, 00:16
I wish KK would unnerf the range of the PlasmaWaves and Lasercannons......

And what's with the Doom Beamer nerf, TL 110 now...wtf?

Did they up the TL of any other HC weapons to 115?

Where's the compensation for that nerf?

Conner MacManus
16-10-04, 07:40
Good morning Spoon! I hope you slept well!

These are just some thought on raising TL of the CS. . . . . .


btw CAs Special Forces Plasma Wave is tl 110 and kicks ass, only drawback, it has construtioncapps at 81%, cause it is not a Rare. You need either a Ultima or 4+ slots to get a good one.
oh and it is City Admin ONLY :p

Sigma
16-10-04, 08:00
1.) Remove Speedmalus while having a weapon drawn. (Be it Rifle or HC)

2.) Up CS to TL 115, Downgrade Doom Beamer to TL 105.

3.) Add HC-Eyes.

4.) Profit!

Capt. Rik
16-10-04, 09:59
1.) Remove Speedmalus while having a weapon drawn. (Be it Rifle or HC)

2.) Up CS to TL 115, Downgrade Doom Beamer to TL 105.

3.) Add HC-Eyes.

4.) Profit!

5) Give tanks ***

Darkener
17-10-04, 14:07
The days of HC tanks are over.

Melee tanks now rule the world.
The Day of the nib will never arrive not as long as i play a HC tank . Yes melee is over powered but shit tanks play them. They lomed as soon as melee hit and dont have any of the skills or the idea how to play them . I will admit there are some good ones out there and these guys have always been melee and know who they are and are unbelieve able players. Anyone who lomed after the patch that over powered melee still have alot to learn.

As for what you were saying Ezza i agree 100%. I like the Idea on the CS, one change could be made to this idea and that is instead of changin its rank we get a plasma cannon as part of the WOC. Who the fuck wants another shitty raygun cannon. I never use my Doombeamer in op situations, i take it out now and again to kill a few fire mobs for money . HC eye would also be good it would go well with the WOC hc chip.

A change in the HC pa could be another thing to, like we arent slow enough already with a cannon pulled you - 25 from ath from wearing the PA. The more viable option would be to make it like the Melee PA.

tiikeri
17-10-04, 16:30
I have always been melee tank, and i will always be :) even if they get nerfed to hell.

polarbear
21-10-04, 13:18
2.) Up CS to TL 115, Downgrade Doom Beamer to TL 105.



why dont u just leave it as it is and make the doombeamer shoot like the other ray wpns?
...you know what a 'RAY' is? of course it is NOT a FUUCKin`nrg-ball!!!

the db would be much more worth using!


MfG n0DaY // pOlarbear - Tankeh since Sept. `02

Shinto
21-10-04, 15:10
why dont u just leave it as it is and make the doombeamer shoot like the other ray wpns?
...you know what a 'RAY' is? of course it is NOT a FUUCKin`nrg-ball!!!

the db would be much more worth using!


MfG n0DaY // pOlarbear - Tankeh since Sept. `02well a thread was posted in the past asking for doombeamer made to the beam type rather than ball, but number of people were against it

Liebestoter
26-10-04, 16:06
Melee needs balancing.

With a 31/38 melee, I have killed in one on one fights..

A 58 APU.
A 59 APU.
A 64 Rifle Spy.
A 63 Rifle Spy.
A 57 HC tank.


And a bunch of others not worth mentioning.

A properly configured and played melee tank can..

- swing faster, thus inflicting more damage per second than a melee tank.
- completely outmaneuver his opponent, thus avoiding large amounts of damage.
- strategically utilize cover to close the gap between him and his opponent in a matter of seconds if engaged from a distance.

In addition to this, he never has to reload.

Whereas, once their weapons are drawn HC tanks are pretty much immobile. Sure, they hurt, but we gotta reload. Even with capped aiming the CS still goes all over the place.

I'd like to see some variety in tank setups as well, perhaps rifle tanks and a new cannon type or two. Honestly, most high end tanks are clones. :\