View Full Version : 90 Symp & Clan Symp
Freaky Fryd
01-10-04, 12:03
- Finally got my Biotech sympathy up to 90
- Saw my Faction Supply Manager
- Bought a clan key
- Registered it
- Invited someone with 49 Biotech sympathy
- Now says 73 (90) for Biotech Sympathy for me
- Faction Supply Manager won't talk to me
Has anyone else encountered this?
Is it intentional to have everyone in clan averaging 90+ faction sympathy in order to let any clan member deal with the Faction Supply Manager?
I noticed this in Open Beta, from the first character transfer test. One of my characters had 100 FS and the clan's FS dropped down to 73. Several people reported it as a bug, but whether KK see it as a bug is another mater.
JustIn_Case
01-10-04, 13:41
Kind of a cool idea!
Its up to the Clan leader to keep his memebers in line ;)
But i think FS 90+ is to high, especially if it comes down to an
average value.
DigestiveBiscui
01-10-04, 13:44
yea - this was a very annoying bug from beta
imo - make it personal symp not clan symp that the FSM notices
Kreb Slyvian
01-10-04, 13:58
This same bug was in NC1. It affected which missions you could accept. Mission acceptance was based on clan sympathy, not personal sympathy.
Kreb
Well... faction sympathies are supposed to be of utmost importance in NC2.
I think it quite good. If you're in a clan you should keep you symp up. If not, it's up to the clan council to either get you in shape or kick you out (since they effectively cannot retrieve stuff if you have bad symp for a longer period of time).
But sure, it implies all members are active etc etc and other stuff...
well suppose it would aid same faction killings from happening
Dribble Joy
01-10-04, 14:49
The clan symp is an average of all the individual symps in the clan, whether you should use it or you personal symp for the FSM... I dunno..
Freaky Fryd
02-10-04, 12:30
Well, I guess this answers it:
http://www.psycholights.com/neocron/factionsupplymanager.jpg
Too bad it's not what I wanted to hear...
:lol:
Yeah I got exactly the same, clan symp of 73 and my symp was 100.
Easy to fix though, I made my clan mates do more missions to get 90 symp :D
hmm another instance of KK having no idea about how the game is played. We had to get the whip out to get our clans sym to 60 on pluto. 90 is not really that easy to get and maintain....
Also its just another instance of pointless mechanics, if you can leave the clan and buy the stuff and rejoin then what is the point of disallowing it in the first place ? or do you lose sym by leaving a clan. Even so its just adding arse factor to the game - its not interesting arse factor either.
Praetorian
02-10-04, 13:14
Ok, normally i wouldnt fly off the handle... BUT THIS IS RETARDED... :mad:
The workaround is so easy, everyone and their dog will make an alt outside clan to buy what they need... :wtf:
Sure this is going to help alot... especially if you kill someone from your faction in self defense... Tradeskill clans, good luck!
Ozambabbaz
02-10-04, 13:20
it sure is
being in a clan, i get mission spam en mass
not to mention as it's "early retail" theres traitors in each and every faction because of people _need_ the epic items for end-game pvp setups.
that leaves an option of creating a hostile n00b-char to kill for symp. brilliant and enthralling gameplay or flawed game design? u be the judge
theres traitors in each and every faction because of people _need_ the epic items for end-game pvp setups
"And that is why you fail."
No matter what people say, this is why faction items need to have a faction requirement. YES the current items would cause everyone to join one faction or another, or one class to join one faction or another. I'm not proposing that the current system and items have faction requirements thrown on them, I'm suggesting that the items that were chosen for faction epics are a poor choice, as everyone wants to own practically all the epics.
Instead, your epic should be something you honor and pride that makes you closer to your faction. But when everyone needs a Biotech or Protopharm epic in their head and another faction's epic weapon in their hand... it kinda defeats the purpose of "epic missions". The epic is supposed to be the reward for your ultimate loyalty to the faction. Yet instead epics have turned everyone into traitors.
OMG this is fucking shit sorry but I'm not lvling faction symp to 90 on all my alts that are in my clan. And its so easy to fuck up and lose a shite load of symp I did like 9 hours of missions yesterday :mad: It takes the piss the mob spawns in doy are shit do a launcher mission and it can take up to 10 mins to complete it!!
I need a BT runner for fucking harden backbone for my nib tank and they lickly to charge 50k for that POS, I need a proto runner to buy anti shocks from which are vital!! for pvp day to day I need about 40 of them bitchs. At least make a central trading spot with every shop every faction supply point yeah ? o_O
/EDIT I don't think I can be arsed to do the epics again and again and lvl chars just for that purpose! I don't like lvling but its got to be done but having to shout for a runner with 90 symp evey 1 hour with no one giving a shit cos they can't be arsed to help you. Getting tired of this tbh all I want to do is pvp not months of crap
Jesterthegreat
02-10-04, 15:38
should be based on personal symps IMO (and in others by the looks of it)
Erm.... ok.
What if, for example, there was an interesting and fun way of raising Faction Sympathies? Maybe then it'd work? Not now when you have to do hours of missions. From what I've heard (not in game yet) it seems that timeseeks = t3h win! :rolleyes:
Aye it sure was fun running backwards and forwards for 9 hours through the same frecking room looking for launcher cyclops. Are these anti shocks and other drugs blueprintable ? anti shocks should be sold along with stam boosters.
/EDIT I know the answer Player shops but thats not done yet it better be top priority KK chop chop we want or player run market place
I've played this game for about two years now, give or take a wee bit. It took me 3 hours to get my symps to 90. Not a bad ratio.
Foosty then joined the clan, dropping my clan symp to 72, but cos his also raised to 72 he was able to do harder missions right away, so I sat feeding him blueprints while he ran around doing research missions. Took an hour and a half or so.
Now not everyone is lucky enough to have a resser on hand, but everyone has access to a resser somewhere, sometime, even if you have to pay. So basically you're sorted whatever your situation. If you're a combat type you can make easy money and buy the bps you need for the missions, if you're a tradeskiller you can make the stuff yourself.
A couple of hours work invested in game played for years...it's not like you need to cough up a lung.
@ Little Terror - if you just want to PvP what the fook are you doing playing an MMORPG O_o
Little Terror - if you just want to PvP what the fook are you doing playing an MMORPG
Too PvP and kill other people ?
Don't give me the go play quake bullshit plz...
For me its not just the extra hours that you'd have to do, but whilst your doing that time its a) not fun and b) seems to be showing the way in which NC is going... boring timesinks.
For me its not just the extra hours that you'd have to do, but whilst your doing that time its a) not fun and b) seems to be showing the way in which NC is going... boring timesinks.
Its exactly that :( I want to spend about 2 hours a day hunting for parts, tradeskilling and lvling but at the min it takes longer much longer and its boring. Maybe it will get better once everyone is settled in and player shops are there to supply with everything having a price a bit like eve-online is
Too PvP and kill other people ?
Don't give me the go play quake bullshit plz...
I don't need to, you just owned yourself far better than I could :p
I don't need to, you just owned yourself far better than I could :p
No this game is far better it takes setup skill its a big world with a story thats why I play it. not just for the pvp but mostly for it
OMG this is fucking shit sorry but I'm not lvling faction symp to 90 on all my alts that are in my clan. And its so easy to fuck up and lose a shite load of symp I did like 9 hours of missions yesterday :mad: It takes the piss the mob spawns in doy are shit do a launcher mission and it can take up to 10 mins to complete it!!
Maybe that's why it's in place, everyone has to run the treadmill again for the all important Faction Symp.
More time your have to do something the more time you play = more money at the higher monthly fee, not to mention alt accounts and upgrade charges for each account.
Great decision for more income by 10T/KK, but bad gameplay mechanics. :(
My clanned alt Researcher and Constructor's are not set up to run around doing missions in non-safe zones nor can I get them to TH without getting ganked.
I fear NC2 will be another niche game just like NC1 because almost everything is just too time consuming and tedious. (even more so now)
Add horrible customer support and the new price hike and well it doesn't seem like a recipe for success.
My biggest concern is how often they are backing up now.
People like myself are spending many many hours getting Faction Symp, trading, getting money, and getting sorted once again.
Went to sleep last night worrying if it all was going to be rolled back.
Jesterthegreat
02-10-04, 17:39
Too PvP and kill other people ?
Don't give me the go play quake bullshit plz...
well said... i only play NC to PvP. i PvPd in NC1, in DAoC, in UO... these were all MMORPG's last time i looked
This is yet another good idea ruined by bad implentation and/or forgetting to fix required mechanism for it to work. The idea of forcing clans to stay in their faction's favor is good. Killing allied/neutrals not only hits your sl but also fucks up everyone in the clan's symp. But KK forgot that missions are way unbalanced and buggy. They seriously need to streamline the mission process and make 100% sure you can do the missions given to you *and* you have all the necessary missions available. There should be various tradeskiller missions, ppu missions, transport missions, combat missions, maybe even some pvp missions? As for locations, I should not be able to take a combat mission unless the mobs I'm supposed to kill are within a zone or two. It's stupid to be sitting in DOY and get options like Raptor for my missions. We shouldn't hafta spend half our time cycling through the missions just to find the apropriate one!
Then there's yet another problem, how easy it is to lose sympathy. The same as with sl, it's hard to raise and super easy to lose it all. Because research missions were not available and because I'm a ppu, I had to go the despicable route of making a noob char in enemy faction myself and killing him over and over again. What I learned was that I get maybe 1/2 a faction point per kill, but for the hostile factions I was lose 5-10 per kill. How stupid is that? By the time I managed to get up to 90 symp it was down to 1/3 a faction point per kill and my hostile faction symps had hit -100 a while ago. I tried wandering around nc looking for npcs I could kill, and each one would give a massive negative hostile symp hit and minor friendly symp boost.
Please think out systems/changes like this before you put them in... If the existing mechanisms that will be required for this new system to work are broken/not working right then you should not put in the new system!
Jesterthegreat
02-10-04, 18:02
are delivery missions gone then?
and i seem to remember someone saying CM have PVP missionns that you dont lose SL for... would be nice to see that sort of thing for all factions
Then there's yet another problem, how easy it is to lose sympathy....By the time I managed to get up to 90 symp it was down to 1/3 a faction point per kill and my hostile faction symps had hit -100 a while ago.What's the problem with that? You kill an enemy, they get really pissed at you, as you would expect, but your own faction is just mildly please because that's what they expect you to do.
Also remember the new symp system is more linked, so if you do a mission for your own faction you get symp, but also lose symp with hostiles. It's not possible to have high symp with NC & DoY unless you're CM, which is entirely as it should be.
Jesterthegreat
02-10-04, 18:08
What's the problem with that? You kill an enemy, they get really pissed at you, as you would expect, but your own faction is just mildly please because that's what they expect you to do.
Also remember the new symp system is more linked, so if you do a mission for your own faction you get symp, but also lose symp with hostiles. It's no possible to have high symp with NC & DoY unless you're CM, which is entirely as it should be.
thing is its not even kill an enemy... its do any amount of damage. have you never had a stray CS blob or whatever hit an ally and lost loads of symp/SL because of it?
What's the problem with that? You kill an enemy, they get really pissed at you, as you would expect, but your own faction is just mildly please because that's what they expect you to do.
Also remember the new symp system is more linked, so if you do a mission for your own faction you get symp, but also lose symp with hostiles. It's not possible to have high symp with NC & DoY unless you're CM, which is entirely as it should be.
The problem is that if sympathy is going to be this important, it should not be so easy to lose and hard to gain. Are we really expected to kill 60 some enemies to get our symp up to 90? When all it would take is 5 bad kills to completely erase that work? It's just like soul light, spending hours doing missions can be erased by a single kill. That's a problem...
An entire 60 enemies? Or the equivalent 3 hrs of missions?
Not sure sure which game you're playing where symp is hard to gain, I had mine at 100 without any noob-ganking within 24hrs of getting into nc2.
The mission system certainly needs to be overhauled, but the mission rewards are just fine when you find one that works :)
I'm not quite sure that you'r getting what we mean chumble... 3hrs of missions may not be alot to you, nor may 2hours or whatever. But to alot of people, that IS alot of time, it may be all the time they have for one or even two nights of playing.
Personally, I know that along with other things if I were to play NC2 I would have around 2-3 hrs a night to play with, so I don't want to come home from school then have to get my sympathies up for three hours before I can even do anything, then have some dickshit in my clan kill an ally and have the clan average drop under 90. Or if I hit an ally by accident and they get killed, I lose fuck knows how much FS and SL, both of which I'll now have to spend valuable time in getting back up.
I'm not quite sure that you'r getting what we mean chumble... 3hrs of missions may not be alot to you, nor may 2hours or whatever. But to alot of people, that IS alot of time, it may be all the time they have for one or even two nights of playing.
There is no way I can possibly stress the sarcasm enough here:
Two days! Oh noz!
Just try to imagine the total and utter contempt, combined with sarcasm dripping so thickly you'd need a chainsaw to cut through it.
Two days! To get access to everything your faction has to offer? And you think this is bad? Are you quite mad? How long have you been playing this game? Did you have a capped char with all items and a total grasp of the PvP system in one day? Surely not two days to be master of everything!
It's a bad enough joke that an Epic can be done in a day, when it should take weeks or even months, but to moan that it takes (oh noz oh noz!! so unfair!!) three whole hours to get your symp sorted...did I mention OH NOZ OH NOZ OH NOZ!!!!
This post brought to you by the words 'can of beer' and the number 6.
Yes, two days of paying to do boring shit. Woo fucking hoo.
If you really want to know I've played since start of retail, so I know what the fuck I'm talking about. And no I didn't cap in a day, I spent over 12 months leveling my main char... you know why? Because I actually enjoyed the experience of finding new places and new mobs to kill. Shooting the same mob for two days worth of my playing time is not enjoyable. Especially when if I hit someone by accident I lose that time.
Its not the time that I'm against. Its how FUCKING BORING that time is. And also the fact that I'm paying to be bored. Yeah, I could just sit looking at my desk for free and still be bored.
And yes, the $10 or however much it is is important for me, because I don't have a huge amount of money as I'm a student, and not even 18 yet, which means that any job I can get which fits in with my work gives me fuck all pay.
So fuck you, and your "OH NOES" bullshit.
So don't do quick-kill missions if you find them boring. Do proper missions, or don't do missions at all and get your symp from PvP kills. Or just don't get symp at all and buy the stuff you need.
Even taking it slowly it would only take a couple of weeks to cap symp. I really don't see the problem here. Nothing is handed to you on a silver platter in an mmorpg, you always have to work for your stuff, and there's always a treadmill of some sort.
Personally I actually quite enjoy doing research missions, especially now when I really have to hunt to find the source item to BP. On the otherhand I can't say I'm all that fond of caving, so I'll make a deal: we'll go to KK together and ask them to remove the sympathy system and remove all of those boring leveling areas. In fact let's just get them to cap everyone and save all that messing around, then we can just PvP all day, that would be way more exciting.
Jesterthegreat
03-10-04, 12:53
There is no way I can possibly stress the sarcasm enough here:
Two days! Oh noz!
Just try to imagine the total and utter contempt, combined with sarcasm dripping so thickly you'd need a chainsaw to cut through it.
Two days! To get access to everything your faction has to offer? And you think this is bad? Are you quite mad? How long have you been playing this game? Did you have a capped char with all items and a total grasp of the PvP system in one day? Surely not two days to be master of everything!
It's a bad enough joke that an Epic can be done in a day, when it should take weeks or even months, but to moan that it takes (oh noz oh noz!! so unfair!!) three whole hours to get your symp sorted...did I mention OH NOZ OH NOZ OH NOZ!!!!
This post brought to you by the words 'can of beer' and the number 6.
which is all good til one stray bullet loses you loads of symp again... and as long as its based on clan symp if anyone in the clan fucks up the entire clan suffers for it. all this will do is encourage people to keep 1 char at 90 symp unclanned, or have an unclanned tradeskiller account
I'm with Judge on this one I spent months and months capping my main char and getting the weapons and epics done. I would only play about 3 - 4 hours at a time but once capped and rdy I was playing up to 10 hours a day not all at once though. But now with so much to fuck around with I'm starting to play a little bit less each day that can only mean I'm losing interest in the game. I think it will be a very long time befor you see me running around pvping cos befor that I got to do alot of shit which takes me months .
I'm not one of these freaks that caps a character in 2 days or stores over 4000 rare parts I have about 3 characters to cap :( and epics for them all.
/EDIT another thing I'm a lonely runner ingame now :( no clan = no team lvling finding a ppu who want to lvl is hard so I lvl solo most of the time
Vampire222
03-10-04, 13:38
My suggestion: Change the system so the personal symph instead of the clan symph counts....
My suggestion: Change the system so the personal symph instead of the clan symph counts....
Bingo!
Actually, fix the bug that's causing it to be the way it is now, because this decision is even too silly to not be a bug, even for KK.
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