View Full Version : What are monks good for!!!
KillingMackRoo
11-09-04, 20:26
Since im coming back & i've always been a monk, yea even from the first time i ever logged in... imo yes neo sux, the gfx design sux, the textures etc nowhere near as good as something like ryzoam, note imo...
the sl's terrible, & the two second combat for newbs, yes newbs wanna pvp too... & for capped chars ok 3 seconds, unless you got a ppu healing you constantly which then boils down to who runs out of ammo or psi boosters 1st...
oh yea! AND the two seconds a monk lasts against a pain easer without a ppu, yes they're supposed to have ppu's but the ppu's buff's works even better on a pe with their better resists... yea monks've better armor but doesnt explain their paper mache' texture when confronted with a pe, cs etc..
yea spies are jus as bad but ive got a sneaky feeling everyone dumps their spy & runs for their pe tank for pvp or an op... So if pe's are better with a ppu with their higher resists, what are monks good for? note ive covered the monks armor... ie resist force...
Serious follow ups pls... i've seen a lot of apu's what the hell do you guys do if you see a guy with a pain easer, or even worse a tank with a pain easer lol .... :D
Ozambabbaz
11-09-04, 20:39
apus are still overpowered with the no reticle, no runspeed impedement, great armor and locational dmg on the HL, u just gotta lvl and praccy.
and do something bout ur resists =D
we spec resist force and wear armour
Not sure how to help with that one, can just about manage against PE's (if i see them coming) just tanks and goddamn Devourers get me everytime :p probably my screwed up CON though.
Best apu defence ive figured so far - use walls to your advantage (shoot thru em :D ) or use a spell you can run cast & keep moving. Since they need to lock on to hit & we dont, it works kinda well.
monks are good for being shoved up tanks bums and making them run with a waddle, but giving them super human powers in return
or somthing
played well, all of the classes in NC are a force to be recconed with.
For my money the APU is still probably the highest damage-dealer out there, especially now that Anti-poison sanc. and catharsis sanc. have been removed, they have high-end poision weapons, which no other class has. they also have the ability to run and gun, making them a force in close-combat. and a monk's resists can be pretty good, especially if you spec some Force Resist.
PPUs are damn indestructable, especially now that they took out Spirit mods, there is no good way to kill them really, and they can parashock.
lol yeah the old PPU problem, im starting to think there really isnt a viable solution to em. Keep em as they are - people moan they cant take em down solo, lower their buffs/heals & so on, people moan that certain cave runs are now impossible.
*shrugs* Loose the holy para - jobs a good'en i think. (Well maybe........)
poison seems pretty underpowered atm
[edit] I think HL may have gotten a lil boost in NC2....oh yeah and noob PvP lasts alot longer than high lvl pvp so i really dunno wtf you on about there
-=Dredduk=-
11-09-04, 23:32
poison seems pretty underpowered atm
[edit] I think HL may have gotten a lil boost in NC2....oh yeah and noob PvP lasts alot longer than high lvl pvp so i really dunno wtf you on about there
ahah yeah i like it when rank 30s fight last about 4 mins whic his alot longer then high lvl fights (2 hits= zone for most people)
maybe all the dmg of players/mobs everything.... should be lowered so fights last alot longer. :eek: O_o :rolleyes:
NO!
I like the fast pace of NC combat... in some games, PvP fights can last hours as people dance around and kite each other, in NC it's fast and furious...
If I wanted to play chess I'd play chess, if I wanted to stare at paint drying I would do so, I play an PFS for the fast action.
BTW, poison absolutely RULES OP fights though, because they aren't close to a zoneline usually, or if they are, then you take them out of the fight for a while, usually if you drive 3 or 4 people for the UG to zone away their stacks, then you can tip the tide of battle.
Hmm what to do with Psi monks???
1) Remove them from tanks arses.
2) You Do NOT Talk about... oops, wrong thread...
3) Ask if they know what you're thinking right now.
4) Remove them from tanks arses
5) Remove them from tanks arses
6) Remove them from tanks arses
etc.
Dirk_Gently
12-09-04, 02:05
What are monks good for????
Firewood?
Freeejumper
12-09-04, 03:32
What are monks good for????
Firewood?
they are good for nerfs :)
I'm just new to the apu but imo put your armour on and which ever is the highest number in resist spec all others to match it and put the rest in athletics. Run around like a total nutcase with a ppu healing you and make sure you have all intel points into PSI use so you easly run cast monks are not hard there too damn easy. Almost killed a lvl 60 tank with a 1 hour old hybrid thats no joke the monks aim is like so easy i hit every time
Jesterthegreat
12-09-04, 15:27
is this really a post to say monks arent important enough? :eek:
I killed a rank 62 CS tank with red SL running about pp3 yesterday in nc2 with my rank 42/43 no PA halo energy halo using APU 1 v 1 :lol: Monks are fine and they are good for pk'ing and making money.
Dirk_Gently
12-09-04, 19:00
I just really hate the way that Monks have been implemented in Neocron.
They don't fit at all with the post-apoc/cyberpunk/futuristic feel because they don't use "psionics" they use "magic".
poison seems pretty underpowered atm
hmm well actually i gitta disagree there atm i can do liek 10 stacks on a ppu and holy heal wont outheal it its kinda kewl atm
BUT one thing does make it underpowered is the fact u use poison and peops run to the nearest zoneline and poof goes the poison
hmm well actually i gitta disagree there atm i can do liek 10 stacks on a ppu and holy heal wont outheal it its kinda kewl atm
BUT one thing does make it underpowered is the fact u use poison and peops run to the nearest zoneline and poof goes the poison
No it does'nt work that way. If you stack 25 poison's on someone, start to get shot and about to die and zone away the poison becomes in effective because _you_ zoned, not the victim.
Clownst0pper
12-09-04, 19:17
Monks are good for nothing when theres 2 raptors about.
End of.
Monks are good for nothing when theres 2 raptors about.
End of.
No class is good for anything when drones are about because drones = overpowered bullshit.
Clownst0pper
12-09-04, 19:40
No class is good for anything when drones are about because drones = overpowered bullshit.
At tristar today, me and an OP team made up of entirely monks.
Anyway, good plan to the opposition, they had 3 raptors and a PPU dmg boosting all our players.
Needless to say it was all over in a matter of seconds seen as a holy heal you cant out heal one when dmg boosted, never mind 3 on one dmg boosted apu.
After that, I got miffed, logged my droner, the fight was soon ours. :rolleyes:
oh yea! AND the two seconds a monk lasts against a pain easer without a ppu, yes they're supposed to have ppu's but the ppu's buff's works even better on a pe with their better resists... yea monks've better armor but doesnt explain their paper mache' texture when confronted with a pe, cs etc..
yea spies are jus as bad but ive got a sneaky feeling everyone dumps their spy & runs for their pe tank for pvp or an op... So if pe's are better with a ppu with their higher resists, what are monks good for? note ive covered the monks armor... ie resist force...
Do you understand the concept of self-cast and foreign-cast shields?
Ok... PEs without buffs vs apu without buffs, apu has better defense (except in resist force/prc). PEs can self-cast shelter and blessed deflector, pushing their defense much higher than an APU. Tests and number crunching have shown that foreign-cast holy shelter and holy deflector is BARELY better than a self-cast shelter/blessed deflector, therefore PPU shields on a PE is basically pointless. The only advantage is long buffs, but everyone gains from long buffs. On the other hand, an APU does not have it's own shields, so when given foreign-cast holy shields it gains at least equal defense to a PE. Now that might seem all nice and fine, except the way classes are balanced does not take into effect PPUs at all. PEs have the lowest offense in the game (besides PPUs) but one of the highest defense, about equal to a tank, but PEs can also hack/poke/cst/res/etc. APUs have the highest offense in the game and the lowest defense. With PPU buffs, PEs stay the same, low damage high defense. APUs become very high damage, high defense. That is why APUs are much better with PPUs than a PE.
And spies worse than PEs in an op war? Have you been sitting in a hole in the ground for the last.. um..6 months? Rifle spies turn the tide of OP wars. They're enough to make a much weaker team win if the other side does not have a sniper of their own. Spirit mod totally destroys PPUs (which are the other important factor in op wars) with just a little coordination. So.. no, no one runs to their PE for op wars. If they have a choice, they run FROM their PE. Occasionally they'll play a PE for skirmishes or for fun, but everyone knows that PE is by far the worst combat class in an OP war or setting.
So in conclusion... NO, monks do not need to be buffed up. If anything, they need to be nerfed... at least PPUs. All shields as self-cast only would be a step in the right direction.. :rolleyes: Oh and against a paineaser, an APU just kills the PE before the PE kills the APU. Not that hard. They actually kill eachother at about the same speed.
Edit: Oops, you have been sitting in a hole for 6 months.. playing Ryzom. Matis = win!! Dagger = win in pvp!
At tristar today, me and an OP team made up of entirely monks.
Anyway, good plan to the opposition, they had 3 raptors and a PPU dmg boosting all our players.
Needless to say it was all over in a matter of seconds seen as a holy heal you cant out heal one when dmg boosted, never mind 3 on one dmg boosted apu.
After that, I got miffed, logged my droner, the fight was soon ours. :rolleyes:
3 Droners, 2 Tanks, 2 PPUs, 1 APU and 1 SpiritSniper.
And about the fight being yours after you logged your droner, your team lost.
KillingMackRoo
12-09-04, 22:03
Unbuffed pe vs unbuffed monk, pe wins unless the monk runs round like his monkeys on crack. Sick of the scenario, sure i can handle a freakin tank with a cs unbuffed, as soon as a pe might as well head for the nearest zone, this with a moveon, everything in resist force, & pa, & specced for x-ray & fire resists, capped everything with int 96... might as well spec for insane run speed like most of the pk'ing whore...
The secondary buffs im aware of,
lol im not the one who's been in some hole playing some game online for the last 6 months :D
tried the ryzom open beta sexy graphics, crap everything else, who wants a static fighting sequence neway,
as for pe's being low dmge lol xplains the majority of players in an op fight were pe's when i was around, sniping spies usually get chased down by a moonie wielder, come my nex op but i dbt things've changed much.
Pity kami chips gettin can, wldnt mind -100 nrg in me resists hehe :D
without atleast one good apu.. Opwars are tipped over.. ;)
cos there is no-longer any cause to kill a ppu, unless you got a noob-buffer and a spirit mod spy on coms..
im talking about good ppu's
i'd say apu's are good for many things.. let's see here...
1. Killing people
2. Killing people
3. Killing people
4. Killing people
you get the idea.
i think ppu's and para needs a boost tbh
Dribble Joy
13-09-04, 00:43
Unbuffed pe vs unbuffed monk, pe wins
You are on crack my friend.
PE + no buffs = totally and utterly unviable.
Tanks, PEs, APUs and spies (without shelter) are pretty much balanced.
There are some (frankly minor) issue to do with dmg and defence differention between the classes, but other than that it isn't too bad.
The problem is PPUs, foreign shields unbalance the balance we see between the classes, and the heals make them far, far, far too influential on PvP combat.
Unfortunately; in NC, bonus = necessity.
Take two sides in an OP fight, equally matched, add a monk with a holy (hell, even a blessed) blessed heal to one side and the situation is totally fucked.
Not just in favour of the ppu supported side, they are virtually garunteed sucssess.
It carries on untill the only real deciding factor is who has the most PPUs.
(remember that here skill is irrelevant, this is theoretical, where skill level is at the highest possible).
Go back to beta, remove all the PPU spells above tl 40, make all monks a hybrid or a pure (add rez as a WoC skill).
What are monks good for? Well if they're Crahn then they're ok... but if not then the only thing they're good for is target practice....
I suppose other DoY factions monks are.... 'ok'....
Unbuffed pe vs unbuffed monk, pe wins unless the monk runs round like his monkeys on crack. Sick of the scenario, sure i can handle a freakin tank with a cs unbuffed, as soon as a pe might as well head for the nearest zone, this with a moveon, everything in resist force, & pa, & specced for x-ray & fire resists, capped everything with int 96... might as well spec for insane run speed like most of the pk'ing whore...
LoL, who've you been fighting? You're probably hitting 1/2 the time with a holy lightning, the easiest weapon to hit in the game, while the PE is hitting you like 80-90% of the time with one of the hardest... IF you can't hit a PE as much as he's hitting you, there's a serious imbalance in skill in favor of the PE. It's an even fight if PE is using SELF BUFFS and APU is unbuffed, but if they're both unbuffed, no class should have a problem killing a PE. You could easilly do it with nrg halo.
Edit: I just reread your post.. It seems from your first and last sentence in that paragraph that you don't believe in moving while you fight, or at least not moving fast. I'm guessing you sacrifice a lot of runspeed for defense, and you wear PA which also reduces run speed. That would explain why a PE with a PE is beating you.. you're hardly moving so the PE can indeed hit with all his shots while you're having trouble hitting the PE who is moving a lot. Speed is at least as important as armor/con setup, if not more so. Speed can make people miss anywhere from 10-90% of their shots, depending how good they are. But if you hardly move, or don't have at the very least 70/70 runspeed, even a crappy player will hit you 80-90% of the time. Sorry, you can't base balance off of being bad at PVP while the people you play against are at least average.
lol im not the one who's been in some hole playing some game online for the last 6 months :D
LoL. It was a figure of speech... but I guess you didn't understand that. Being in a hole in the ground means you're "out of the loop". If you don't understand that... it means you're not familiar with the current situation and events in the given context. Anyone would know it wasn't meant literally.
tried the ryzom open beta sexy graphics, crap everything else, who wants a static fighting sequence neway,
I agree. I played it for a week and gave up (powerleveling is worse in ryzom than in NC as in.. it's easier to level there somehow.). It's actually not that good graphics... Lineage2 among other games have better graphics.
as for pe's being low dmge lol xplains the majority of players in an op fight were pe's when i was around, sniping spies usually get chased down by a moonie wielder, come my nex op but i dbt things've changed much.
Pity kami chips gettin can, wldnt mind -100 nrg in me resists hehe :D
When were you around again? Beginning of retail? That's about the only time PEs were viable in op fights, with their overpowered liberators. They were semi-viable with stealth.. but all they could do is harass you, run away and.. harass you more. Oh and hack, but spies do that better. If a sniper spy gets even remotely in range of a moonie wielding tank, he deserves to die.
And monk kami chip gives -200 energy, not -100 energy.
Mr Friendly
13-09-04, 06:16
apus are still overpowered with the no reticle, no runspeed impedement, great armor and locational dmg on the HL, u just gotta lvl and praccy.
and do something bout ur resists =D
wow ur sad, still think apus are overpowered @_@
Yeah, APUs aren't overpowered 1v1. Holy light is random, so it could take 10 hits to kill a PE to the head, it could take 5. Also, if you MISS with HL (fizzle), you have to wait at least half a second (an eternity in pvp) before you can fire again, unlike guns which can fire regardless if you hit or miss. Locational damage is actually worse than non-locational. APUs would be more overpowered if they did consistant damage regardless of how much HP you have.
But uh, yeah, no reticle is kinda lame, their armor is great but they have low con.. and they aren't the only class without runspeed impediment.
Monks are thoroughly broken imo. They've been broken ever since monks became the guinea pigs for specialization. They're like the old clunker you try to deck out with a new engine and new wheels. You keep patching it up and trying to make it look good, but on the inside it's still the same old piece of junk you should have retired in favor of a brand new car. Monks need to be redone from the ground up..
The APU is supposed to be only half a class, and should not be considered on their own. Talking about an apu fighting a pe is silly, the apu would die unless they got the jump on the pe. The same as a spy should not expect to go toe to toe with a tank. Due to other problems tho, that's exactly the situation we have. So apu's are often alone and it's unreasonable to expect them to always be with a ppu. The problem is if you strengthen the solo apu, you skyrocket the team apu. Anything you can do alone is magnified with a ppu supporting you. apu/ppu teams are the best in most situations.
The PPU has exactly the same problem, except the ppu can work with nearly any class (apu is only good with a ppu, maybe a pe). Yet ppu's are often on their own... and thus we have things like soul cluster and parashock which give ppu's an offense. So ppu's can wreak havoc solo if they want too...
PPU's and APU's have so many problems because they can't figure out what their role is. Is the apu offensive support? Is the apu just another damage dealer? Is the ppu defensive support? Is the ppu supposed to be the Tank? Is the ppu supposed to be medic? Is the apu supposed to be the anti ppu weapon? Are they supposed to be capable of solo play? or team exclusively? The last time we had any idea what kk intended for the classes was a long outdated listing of each's role. Even at the time it was released we got a good laugh at it because it was so far off.
In my opinion.. we should start over. I was really hoping they'd do something like that for doy.. at least showed some thought about balancing the classes.
Jesterthegreat
13-09-04, 12:23
You are on crack my friend.
PE + no buffs = totally and utterly unviable.
Tanks, PEs, APUs and spies (without shelter) are pretty much balanced.
There are some (frankly minor) issue to do with dmg and defence differention between the classes, but other than that it isn't too bad.
The problem is PPUs, foreign shields unbalance the balance we see between the classes, and the heals make them far, far, far too influential on PvP combat.
Unfortunately; in NC, bonus = necessity.
Take two sides in an OP fight, equally matched, add a monk with a holy (hell, even a blessed) blessed heal to one side and the situation is totally fucked.
Not just in favour of the ppu supported side, they are virtually garunteed sucssess.
It carries on untill the only real deciding factor is who has the most PPUs.
(remember that here skill is irrelevant, this is theoretical, where skill level is at the highest possible).
Go back to beta, remove all the PPU spells above tl 40, make all monks a hybrid or a pure (add rez as a WoC skill).
what he said...
the majority of a PE's defence comes from his selfcast s/d. a HL rips through an unbuffed PE, well i assume it does as i can kill an unbuffed PE in 1 clip of a CS... as apposed to a buffed PE who takes loads :p
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