View Full Version : Why arent hybrids made "compotent"
Clownst0pper
09-09-04, 20:56
As it stands, hybrids are two ways.
The blessed hybrid : Brilliant defence and healing abilitys, can damage boost, and use "anti" spells. They can use level 2 primary buffs, and can also ressurect, however, there damage output is minimal due to holy energy halo being a TL 55ish weapon, and psi attack 2 doing very little dmg to those who can shelter
The APU biased hybrid : Better Offence as they can use Holy Lighting, however, they loose a large ROF amount on there holy lighting due to less apu. They can also damage boost, however, they are limited to a TL 3 heal, heal sanctum, and PE based shields, blessed deflector and standard tl 25 shelter.
Now, within all of this, it is only because of a sheer lack of implants in comparison to combat classes that hybrids are so limited and unaccepted.
Of course they had to be nerfed, however, I honestly believe KK havnt found the right line.
And I actually find it frustrating that you suffer so much in one way as you benefit in another.
DMG over Defence once again.
And all it does is bring me to a modern day PE.
You go lowtech PE your offensive sucks, but your defence is amazing
You go hightech PE your offensive rocks, but your defence sucks.
This is how I see hybrids now, and to be honest, we really need to find middle ground for the hybrid. As it stands, they sit uncomfortably in the middle, and I have tried for hours.
The only thing I can see that will help is to introduce small + hybrid implants, and a crahn glove.
Until then, there just..shite :(
Sorry for this shitty reply but I need to go out...
Go PE. Sorted.
Dargeshaad
09-09-04, 21:04
Shite in what way? I find my hybrid very powerfull, maybe my hybrid isn't top of the line for OP fights but that's just a tradeoff I have to suffer (not like people take PEs to OP fights either). I do agree on the points of adding more implants though, but that's more in the line of eye/spine implants adding MST or PSI (so I can use PA 3 without drugs damnit!)
Dirk_Gently
09-09-04, 22:51
Get rid of Monks.
Problem solved.
Get rid of Monks.
Problem solved.
!!!!!
jerrymaguire
09-09-04, 23:06
Why should there be a middle ground for hybrids????
The monk class should swing one way or the other. Each type, apu and ppu, have their roles to play, so choose one and stick to it if u wanna pvp. Hybrids are good enough for leveling solo, but for pvp, they should be no better than a PE in respect of offence/defence.
I say "no hybrid implants".
But
Introduce implants that are just for mst and psi power. Not all monks imps need to have either apu or ppu bonus'.
if you really want to sort there defense and damage make hybrid only spells. but that wont happen so w/e
Real life is all about trade offs...
I'll use the example of airplanes, because there are REALLY obvious tradeoffs there.
More payload requires more powerful engines and more lift... which reduces manuverability (because you change wing shape and more load means more airframe stress so you can't turn as quickly without overstressing), so you have to choose payload or speed.
then you have that tradeoff set, you need to decide what to do with your payload... do you want more armor or more missiles/bombs? protection or offense.
then you have to select what kind of weapon (IE guns VS rockets ect.)
using that analogy a PPU favored hybred is like a HIND-D gunship... loads of armor, but not as many guns and not as fast, an APU is like a super cobra... minimal armor but fast, and loaded for bear...
the tradeoff you pick is based on your playing style... I like a mostly APU with just enough PPU to use moderate defenses (and heal up between mobs), because I tend to be a very agressive player and charge into the fight and I want to drop them quickly and move onto the next.
I have a friend (screen name is RyumoKR) that plays with a mostly PPU hybred because he tends to be more defensive and likes to do group support, but he has enough APU in him to use an energy Halo to take out annoying small mobs without wasting a cluster or having to para them to death.
you've got to pick your tradeoff based on your style.
Hind-D > Super Cobra
A Hind is capable of the same/nearly the same payload as a Supercobra
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Blessed hybrids are tougher than PE's, but lower damage. APU hybrids put out more damage than PE's, but aren't quite as tough. Do you mean you want hybrids to be tougher AND deal more damage than PE's? You said yourself, you have to trade off. Either damage or defence. It makes sence that monk hybrids are basically psi using PE's, since PE's themselves are more or less tank/spy hybrids.
Well ive seen PPU based hybrids taking down whole groups of people and ive seen APU based hybrids aking 9 damage from a CS burst, runcasting HL and using holy anti-shield at nearly capped frequency.
Hybrids are overpowered. Just remove em.
Hind-D > Super Cobra
A Hind is capable of the same/nearly the same payload as a Supercobra
than a super-cobra.... not exactly
the super variant has missile racks and rocket pods nearly doubling hte payload and it's FAR more manuverable...
one good HEAT missile and a hind is toast.
One good heat and a cobra is toast. :-P (what's a heat missile?)
Mi-24D "Hind-D" Payload = 5,510 lb (2,500 kg)
AH-1W "Super Cobra" Payload = 4,550 lb (2,064 kg)
They both carry 20mm machine guns just below the nose. They both have 4 rocket/missile rack hardpoints, two per wing. The Hind is a lot heavier because it also serves as a troop transport while the Super Cobra is a pure gunship.
I derive strange amounts of pleasure from doing research and proving people wrong. Probably cause of my genes.. my parents are both lawyers. :p
Edit: Anyway, the point is... bad example, good ideas Seraphian.
ah yes, but try hitting the cobra... given the faster top speed, better lateral movement, low IR profile and 36" front nose profile :p
we can geek back and forth all day with obscure military trivia or we can acknowledge that it was a metaphore and therefore not nessisarily relevant to the fact that there IS a tradeoff between offense and defense quite often in this world and thus it is not practicle to have 'perfectly balanced' hybrids :p
I didn't contest any of your other points, only that the Hind has equal or more firepower than a Cobra, whereas you stated the opposite. :p
Anyway.. I think hybrids are fine as it is, but tone down ppu based hybrids. It's like fighting a ppu... that can shoot back. You'll inevitably lose, you can't kill them but they can kill you slowly. APU based hybrids and blessed hybrids aren't nearly as broken. I've seen PEs take down above average blessed hybrids.
ah, the meat of the matter.
Yeah, you're right... a hind has more raw firepower... but speed and agility have always been my style.
And you're right about the PPU hybreds, in part... the only thing that really sucks is getting parad, energy beamed, damageboosted, energy beamed, parad......
The trade-offs are usually.. speed, offense, defense and cost. So you could make a high offense high defense class possible.. if for example money was worth something, psi boosters expensive and psi pool so small you'd need to chug one every few seconds. Because Monks have low amounts of free space, they'd end up unable to continue fighting after only a few minutes. You'd just have to balance it so they don't WIN in those few minutes against huge odds.
hm... cost balancing... interesting idea... maybe we should make a brainport about it.....
speed/agility for defense tradeoff should be made more of IMHO too...
right ok so you want a ppu and apu all in one so you can be all uber and killing entire clans with ease sorry but its not going to happen
Original monk
10-09-04, 09:03
right ok so you want a ppu and apu all in one so you can be all uber and killing entire clans with ease sorry but its not going to happen
and the people on these forums will make sure of that
think about mayour hybridnerf again, yeah hybrids will never be close to what they use to be, there reputation will take care of that
still i wouldnt mind making regular firehalo 120 and holy poisonhalo 122 apu request, if im still around by then
Richard Slade
10-09-04, 09:06
My biggest question is,
why aren't hybrids made of chocolate?
Original monk
10-09-04, 10:07
My biggest question is,
why aren't hybrids made of chocolate?
because fire-apoc would melt em ? i dunno
Hybrids are fine and its possible to get a good hybrid (come uranus and fight smurf1 which i know his setup :angel: ) they need nothing changing or they _will_ be overpowered yet again.
If you cba to spend time getting a good setup then maybe you should'nt be hybrid but believe me they are'nt weak.
hybrids aren't underpowered at all. They're anywhere from balanced to overpowered in the case of PPU based ones. LilT, I'm talking about a different direction for balance, not overpowering. The way you stated your post it's like saying all PEs who want a boost want to be able to kill PPUs easilly and never ever die unless they really suck. The new direction is cost/attrition balance. Imagine (as a rough example) a Monk that used holy light and blessed buffs, both capped. That might sound evil, but what if the monk could only fight for 2 minutes before it was completely unable to do anything besides run away to a gogu? It'd be overpowered for a skirmish, but in a open fight, you could wear down the monk by just trying to stay alive, then moving in for the kill later?
hybrids aren't underpowered at all. They're anywhere from balanced to overpowered in the case of PPU based ones. LilT, I'm talking about a different direction for balance, not overpowering. The way you stated your post it's like saying all PEs who want a boost want to be able to kill PPUs easilly and never ever die unless they really suck. The new direction is cost/attrition balance. Imagine (as a rough example) a Monk that used holy light and blessed buffs, both capped. That might sound evil, but what if the monk could only fight for 2 minutes before it was completely unable to do anything besides run away to a gogu? It'd be overpowered for a skirmish, but in a open fight, you could wear down the monk by just trying to stay alive, then moving in for the kill later?
Name 1 class, except PPUs and spies with stealth ,who is capable of surviving against a capped Holy Lightning for 2 mins.
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