Judge Vs ROLH

[giga191]

I have recently started using a ROLH instead of a judge on my PE and I found that even though I get around the same % dmg on each of the weapons the ROLH does far less dmg. Why is this? :confused:

[Richard Slade]

I have recently started using a ROLH instead of a judge on my PE and I found that even though I get around the same % dmg on each of the weapons the ROLH does far less dmg. Why is this? :confused:
1)Range
2)RoF
3)What yer shooting at

[giga191]

1)Range
2)RoF
3)What yer shooting at
Close up I do about 18 dmg with the ROLH and 40 with the judge per shot (to a tank)

[Richard Slade]

Close up I do about 18 dmg with the ROLH and 40 with the judge per shot (to a tank)
Try half a zone away
Also, what has the tank specced in con, what armor does he have,
and you should count dmg over 10seconds and not per shot

[Nidhogg]

Moved to Comm Talk.

N

[Mumblyfish]

Close up I do about 18 dmg with the ROLH and 40 with the judge per shot (to a tank)
ROLH is a nice weapon if you like hugging. You really do have to run right up to your enemy (as in run through them, etc) to get optimal damage. But it shouldn't matter because you should have a shiteload of agility and athletics. Also, ROLH is by far the (ugh... I hate to say this) better weapon because YOU CAN'T MISS. You can be halfway across the fuckin' continent, pointing the gun at the sky, while spazzing out on rollerblades... and you'll STILL hit. The judge tends to do more damage a shot, but the ROLH doesn't miss and the damage stacks very quickly.

In summary, forget what I said and sell the ROLH to Yo's. Ugh...

[Benjie]

Judge is easier to hit with than a Cursed Soul. Cursed Soul does more damage.

Etc Etc.

I like it that way. I means if you've got skill then you have a gun that gives you a real advantage. Seperates the skillb@nz0rzer@rz from the n00bazn0rzererzuzuz.

[-REMUS-]

Me and tostino can get 100% accuracy on judge, its easy to aim. However ROLH is just plain shit.

[Benjie]

Me and tostino can get 100% accuracy on judge, its easy to aim. However ROLH is just plain shit.
You and Tostino have got skill though remus. Imagine the Judge in the hands of cRazy or someone else who is skillfully 'challenged'.

[Mumblyfish]

Imagine the Judge in the hands of cRazy or someone else who is skillfully 'challenged'.
My ears hurt...

[Rade]

RoLH was nerfed somewhat recently, it is now a pile of shit.


Would be nice to see KK balance something that needs balancing and doing it
properly for once. Then again, it was good that all those pistol PEs and spies
got nerfed, they dominated the op wars so bad it was silly :rolleyes:

[Shadow Dancer]

Judge is pretty good.


ROLH sucks. It's been over nerfed.

[Clownst0pper]

Judge is amazing.

There is NO one I dont rip down with it, with capped 184/min frequancy its practically auto fire, with a clip size of 40..well, speaks for itself.

Sooo much better than a slasher or exe, and has nice aim.

Ive started to use it, and it fucking rocks!

[Dribble Joy]

RoLH is still a good weapon.

The 18 dmg to 40 dmg comparison seems.. iffy.
I would say that the tank in question has wildly differing xray and fire armour resist totals, do it again with a subject that has equal fire/xray resists or use a judge and RoLH with the same ammo mod.
If you do that, I am quite confident that ther RoLH dmg value will be higher than the judge one.

The RoLH also has more potential.
Capping rof on it is nigh impossible without a kami and/or extreme gimpage, so the overall dmg you can do with it will increase as you become more and more offensively orientated.
The judge however, while hard to fully cap (185rpm) can easly reach high rof with reletive ease, meaning your maximum offensive capacity has a lower cieling than with the RoLH.

Obviously the judge is 8 tls lower than the RoLH and allows better defensive setups.
I would like to see the RoLH get a boost, not back to it's original level, but not like it is now.
I would also say that most of the other PE weapons need boosting, the libby needs an aiming fix (and a dmg redution if this is sorted), the juge needs a teeny dmg boost, the BoH the same probably.
Tanks > PEs, PEs have to drug like whores and resort to 'dishonourable' methods like DBing and heal stacking in order to compete.
I would like to see a PE boost rather than a tank nerf, and possibly remove DB from the PE item list, I dunno.
Heal and heal sanc stacking needs to go though.


Judge is amazing.

There is NO one I dont rip down with it, with capped 184/min frequancy its practically auto fire, with a clip size of 40..well, speaks for itself.

Sooo much better than a slasher or exe, and has nice aim.

Ive started to use it, and it fucking rocks!
Cap is 185 rpm actually :p.
I wouldn't go as far as you have said there, a properly used exec or slasher is much better than a judge.
And if you are going to go all the way to cap judge rpm, you are so offensively biased, you might as well go for a slower firing higher dex weapon )(imo).

[Clownst0pper]

RoLH is still a good weapon.

The 18 dmg to 40 dmg comparison seems.. iffy.
I would say that the tank in question has wildly differing xray and fire armour resist totals, do it again with a subject that has equal fire/xray resists or use a judge and RoLH with the same ammo mod.
If you do that, I am quite confident that ther RoLH dmg value will be higher than the judge one.

The RoLH also has more potential.
Capping rof on it is nigh impossible without a kami and/or extreme gimpage, so the overall dmg you can do with it will increase as you become more and more offensively orientated.
The judge however, while hard to fully cap (185rpm) can easly reach high rof with reletive ease, meaning your maximum offensive capacity has a lower cieling than with the RoLH.

Obviously the judge is 8 tls lower than the RoLH and allows better defensive setups.
I would like to see the RoLH get a boost, not back to it's original level, but not like it is now.
I would also say that most of the other PE weapons need boosting, the libby needs an aiming fix (and a dmg redution if this is sorted), the juge needs a teeny dmg boost, the BoH the same probably.
Tanks > PEs, PEs have to drug like whores and resort to 'dishonourable' methods like DBing and heal stacking in order to compete.
I would like to see a PE boost rather than a tank nerf, and possibly remove DB from the PE item list, I dunno.
Heal and heal sanc stacking needs to go though.

Boost the judge? EEK 8|

[Dribble Joy]

What setup do you have btw?
Capping judge rof is going to need 195 PC at dex 100, high 180s with exec/slasher dex.
I am kami so I can do it, if you're not kami.. I am concerned.

[Clownst0pper]

What setup do you have btw?
Capping judge rof is going to need 195 PC at dex 100, high 180s with exec/slasher dex.
I am kami so I can do it, if you're not kami.. I am concerned.

LOL my pistol spy you dope :D

He has.......184 Pistol Combat, and fully caps the ROF on a judge.

but saying that, I had 180 pistol combat on my old PE ikari, and he had nice ROF 170+ ish.

[Dribble Joy]

Heh, I know little of spies, but I would have said that a slasher or an exec would be better for one.

I am kami, SA, kami, ppr and moveon.
195 pc, 123 agl.

[Richard Slade]

I wanna be kami too!

[Dribble Joy]

I wanna be kami too!
You can't :p.

Besides, unless you want to suck totally, you really need to know what you are doing (which is why my kami setup is shit).

[Clownst0pper]

Heh, I know little of spies, but I would have said that a slasher or an exec would be better for one.

I am kami, SA, kami, ppr and moveon.
195 pc, 123 agl.

Mm, my spy has... SA/SF/moveon/Distance 3, he has...184 pistol, 105 hightech, 133 agility.

Needing to lower his hightech to 95, and take some agility out.

But the principle is the same, i was originally using slasher for a long time, its a lovely weapon, but there is no doubt that the judge is better.

Its just a lovely weapon, has to be seen as two days ago I wiped out just about an entire crahn clan with it.

[Dribble Joy]

Mm, my spy has... SA/SF/moveon/Distance 3, he has...184 pistol, 105 hightech, 133 agility.

Needing to lower his hightech to 95, and take some agility out.
Hmm you have probably about 100 hp more than me and 30 more in each resist as well :(.
Oh and not 40 atl.

[Clownst0pper]

Hmm you have probably about 100 hp more than me and 30 more in each resist as well :(.
Oh and not 40 atl.

Kaolin has....380 BH, 40 athletics, 30 endurance, 127 fire (armour + con), 135 energy (belt + con), 157 xray (bones PA), zero poison.

so pretty much PE resists- aye

[Dribble Joy]

I have 450 hp, 40 ath, 110 fire/xray/energy.

[Clownst0pper]

I have 450 hp, 40 ath, 110 fire/xray/energy.

Id have more HP, but I have to take a beast, which takes off quite a large chunk.

With a melee buff that I use + a heat three I get about 460.

at the end of the day though dribble, if im loosing I can stealth off, every other PE is a sitting duck. ;)

[Dribble Joy]

Spies > PEs, it's a known fact :p.

[Clownst0pper]

Spies > PEs, it's a known fact :p.

Its a known fact.

I laugh at PE's now, as you no, no matter how good there setup is, you can wear them down, bit by bit until they die.

Unlike a spy who has an escape ability.

And lets face it, lowtech dmg is laughable, even from paineasers, and hightech PE's have no defence.

Its a shame really :(

[Dribble Joy]

Heh, a few misguided item additions and the game's balance falls apart.
High lvl PPU spells
Spy PA
Spirit mods
Stealth
Shame we can't just get rid of them.

[Mumblyfish]

Heh, a few misguided item additions and the game's balance falls apart.
High lvl PPU spells
All except tank PA
Spirit mods
Stealth
Mental Steadiness
Tech Weapons (as in built from techs, I refuse to call them rares... bastards...)
Shame we can't just get rid of them.
This fix brought to you by...

http://www.bettymills.com/store/images/product/CCLO0727.JPG

[Shadow Dancer]

Heh, a few misguided item additions and the game's balance falls apart.
High lvl PPU spells
Spy PA
Spirit mods
Stealth
Shame we can't just get rid of them.



How does spy PA screw up gmae balance?

[Dribble Joy]

Ok, maybe not screw up totally.
But spy defence is too high, the difference between PEs and spies in terms of defence/offence is nothing like it used to be. You could blame PEPA and mc5s as well.
PEs are using to high a tl weapons and spy defence is too high, the distinction between the classes is being lost.

[Shadow Dancer]

PEs are using to high a tl weapons and spy defence is too high, the distinction between the classes is being lost.



I agree DJ. I wish a little more thought was put into the classes when they were made. Let's see what WOC has in store for all the classes. :P

[-=BlackBeard=-]

I have recently started using a ROLH instead of a judge on my PE and I found that even though I get around the same % dmg on each of the weapons the ROLH does far less dmg. Why is this? :confused:

it was overpowerd so they nerfed it

[Dribble Joy]

I think lupus has something planned too re. the PE - spy thing.

My view has allways been that spies should have apu similar defence and rediculous offence, with PEs as they are (up to BoH-RoLH level).
The problem is that you have to put the weapons you reserve for spies in the 120+ dex range with a large TL gap beyond from about 105 (or slap a totally ikky spy only req on them).

[-Demon-]

My spy does have the defence/offense you mention i'e not much...NOT every spy sets themselves up for inq2 ya know...much better to cap all of my rifles etc.

Same old moaners, seem to forget that pes shot themsevles in the foot with stealth abuse too much and got used to a overpowered weapon as well in the ROLH.

Spy overpowered defences? rofl...you have shelter/def and db without any effort. Toe to toe a PE would beat me most of the time purely because I am a spy who has chosen to not use str imps and drugs etc...so you want to somehow nerf anyone who has shown a bit of brians and setup a full combat spy.
I don't see a problem with creative minds like that, I say fair play but I dont follow the same ideals and would rather hack and do spy things :)

You can blame alot of things...but the only real and valid hit pe defense has taken is the removal of stealth and really they didnt need it.

PEs can drug up the same for other items as well as spies or anyone else, PEs are never going to be a distinctive class as thats the point in the class in the first place you can go up so far in the trees of different chars but never achieve the full tree.

[maver!ck]

it was overpowerd so they nerfed it
When? Which patch?

I did not play for quite some time. I can't remember that I ever lost against a CS tank before on my RoLH PE, but I did in no time a few days ago.

[r0ti0n]

when you see a spy take 20 HL hits self buffed.. thats when you know something is wrong.. 8|

[Dribble Joy]

PEs are never going to be a distinctive class as thats the point in the class.
I CUT YOU!! I CUT YOU IN YOUR BALLSACKS!!

Ahem, anyway it's not hard to spec for inq, a moveon and a beast (spies can't use inq2 btw) and if you can cap a judge fully with 180 agl/atl an get PE defence and stealth an hacking and insane psu and anough WEP then... use a spy.


Spy overpowered defences? rofl...you have shelter/def and db without any effort.
Which is pretty much exactly what a spy can get. The effective difference between a normal tl3 def and a blessed def is not as much as you would think, and spies can get close to/the same force/piercing as a PE.

Toe to toe a PE would beat me most of the time purely because I am a spy who has chosen to not use str imps and drugs etc...
Your fault, if you don't want to get as much out of a setup that's your decision.

so you want to somehow nerf anyone who has shown a bit of brians and setup a full combat spy.
It's not a nerf, read what I wrote.
It's about class distinction.
Spies would recive a very large offence boost at the loss of their potential defence, PEs would be restricted in how far up the TL tree they can go.
It's about play style, as is stands PEs are desperately trying to be spies when they should not be.

PEs weren't the only ones that got stealth 'nerfed', the tool is inherently flawed in it's aplication, spies are doing exactly what PEs did with it before.
As long as it can be used as a 'get out of jail free card' then it will be used an abused to hell and back.
A delay timer before it kicks in could be one way of solving it.

[alig]

ROLH is underpowered. Judge is overpowered maybe but judge is underated. My judge pe pwnz and i made her ROLH for a short space of time and payed for it because ROLH simply isnt good, it might have autoaim as people put it but so does judge and you have worse resists, less agl, have to take more drugs. Infact the only judge pe on uranus that i knew about was dribble joy then me:p

[Rade]

The problem is, compared to other classes the RoLH using PEs and spies were
got overpowered - this should prove that its not the RoLH thats
overpowered, its the other pistols that are underpowered. Especially since in
OP wars its not like everyone was crying "OMG WE ARE HACKED, WE DONT
HAVE ENOUGH ROLH PES WE CANT GO". RoLH was fine, many other pistols
was not.



**edit: As for RoLH autoaim I dont really understand what people are getting
at, you still have to point that reticle at the opponent, just with any
weapon, and if its somewhat open usually one of the beams misses. Is
it "magic aim" the fact that when the reticle is closed you will almost never
miss a beam, while for example judge still sends plasma flying occationally?
While nice it doesnt really make the gun that much more ubar.

[Dargeshaad]

I was under the impression the amount of misses with a weapon was tied to how closed the reticle is and how many shots are in a burst. IE. weapons like BOH almost never misses because it only use 1 shot per burst while weapons like CS/FL/Libby usually miss with 1 or 2 shots since it has 4 shots per burst. I believe RoLH is actually a 2 shot beam gun whereas the Judge has 3 shots per burst, so technically it's not odd that the judge misses with more shots than the RoLH fx. With that being said I usually use the best of both worlds, CS/FL for initial dmg to ~50% hp and Rav/HL for the last

[Rade]

I was under the impression the amount of misses with a weapon was tied to how closed the reticle is and how many shots are in a burst. IE. weapons like BOH almost never misses because it only use 1 shot per burst while weapons like CS/FL/Libby usually miss with 1 or 2 shots since it has 4 shots per burst. I believe RoLH is actually a 2 shot beam gun whereas the Judge has 3 shots per burst, so technically it's not odd that the judge misses with more shots than the RoLH fx. With that being said I usually use the best of both worlds, CS/FL for initial dmg to ~50% hp and Rav/HL for the last


Ehm, no. Different types of weapons have different inherent chances of
missing a shots depending on the reticle. BoH and Judge (1 shot and 2 shots
per trigger push respectively) both has a higher chance of missing than RoLH
(2 shots). BoH will miss completely every once in a while with its only beam
with reticle completely closed. RoLH will almost never miss any of its beams
with reticle fully closed, with it open however one beam usually misses. Judge
firing two shots misses statistcly about as much as BoH, but since it fires
two shots it appears to miss more since itd have to miss 1 shot out of 2
twice as often as BoH to have the same aiming.

[Gohei]

Interesting... Maybe teh 5 slotted Judge on saturn is actually worth someting now :lol:

[Clownst0pper]

when you see a spy take 20 HL hits self buffed.. thats when you know something is wrong.. 8|

Well mine outheals fire apocs, and can take 20 HL's with a heat 3 and self shelter :D

Love it :p

[Xizor]

Don't underestimate the Exe. If you can hit with it, it owns anything. (Not that I can do that, but there once was this guy called Fang..)

[Mumblyfish]

(spies can't use inq2 btw)
Oh no, my spy can't exist! My whole life has been a lie!

Inquisition/Duranium2 armour (along with the good boots) is easily obtainable for a spy. And I like it that way :D

[Shadow Dancer]

Well mine outheals fire apocs, and can take 20 HL's with a heat 3 and self shelter :D

Love it :p



Seriously. some of them take way too many HLs. It's fecking annoying.

[Tostino]

I dont see why my PE only takes like 8-10 HL's and he has like 145 energy and he takes 18-20 FA with 119 fire :confused:

[Shadow Dancer]

I dont see why my PE only takes like 8-10 HL's and he has like 145 energy and he takes 18-20 FA with 119 fire :confused:



Because FA is a piece of crap.

[Tostino]

Ok but still why do i take so much dmg form HL??

[Shadow Dancer]

Ok but still why do i take so much dmg form HL??


Kuz HL ownz.

[Clownst0pper]

Kuz HL ownz.

Cos HL is random, sometimes my spy takes 25, sometimes he takes 85..its all too do with luck. :)

[Shadow Dancer]

Cos HL is random, sometimes my spy takes 25, sometimes he takes 85..its all too do with luck. :)


It's not just luck. HL is a high damage weapon in general.

[Phlith]

hc kami spy who caps speed gat > u, can use inq3, possibly 4 but i'm too lazy to check the tg vendors.

my rifle spy uses inq2...tbh