To clan or not to clan.....

[SypH]

.....and to remove or not remove my LE.

I'm in a bit of a quandary here and I could use the advice of the more experienced members of the NC community.

I've been playing NC for just over a year now, and in all that time I have only ever had 2 characters without an LE for a reasonable length of time (I'm not counting my resser since she never leaves plaza). Whats more I havent been in a clan in about 10 months either. There's 2 reason for this and they both kind of mix together.

1. I dont know that many people in game. Infact there are only 2 people ingame left that I regularly talk to, and that actually know me. So I've pretty much nobody to practise PvP skills with on any of my characters, which makes me not want to risk PvP since I am pretty much untrained in it.

2. All but one of my characters are LE'd and that tends to get me ignored by pretty much everyone that isnt LE'd. I spent alot of time solo leveling my LE'd HC tank to 95 base str and 80 base con (and capping his other skills), then there is my up and coming MC tank that is wearing PA1 after 2 days of existance and mostly solo leveling in El Farid and my new project my apu who for the most part also levels alone, and apart from the 2 people that I regularly talk to, high leveled LE users that arent tradeskillers are few and far between. That leaves me spending alot of time hunting alone, which kind of defeats the purpose of a MMO really.


Problem is I'm in a catch 22 situation. I am missing out from certain aspects of the game that I would really like to partake in (op wars, epics, PvP battles, actually hunting for an MC5 chip rather than gathering a crap load of stuff to trade for one, DoY tunnels, PPU's!), but since I am pretty much unknown in the game, even if I took out my LE I'll still be missing out on most of that.

With NC2 fast approaching, and currently in the being in the middle of deciding which side of the fence to go to (Half my alts are in different factions having been swapped back and forth so many times I cant even remember which faction they are now. My HC tank has changed faction about 5 times this week alone.) I thought it was time to deicde the future of my characters in the game. But again I am stuck with my problems. Why bother if all it's going to change is that I'll get pwnt by players as well as mobs=/

Anyone care to offer some words of wisdom to this veteran of newbdom?

[Dirk_Gently]

Wait and see how NC2 pans out. If there are a load of new areas you may want an LEd character so you can safely go and explore them.

With the merging of servers I think the new servers are going to be pretty lethal however hopefully increased population will mean active clans in all Factions. If this happens then join a clan who like to NF and get some big PvP practice in NF done; it's really the best way to learn to PvP.

I'd definitely leave at least one LEd character to go explore with ;)

[SorkZmok]

Clans are great fun.
And not all clans are out for pvp. Its not like you take out your LE and everyone will attack you. Even most (or some, depends on your faction...) enemies wont attack you if you dont pull out your gun at them.

How bout you just take one char, take out his LE and join a clan?

I still know the people from my first clan, we still play together. We became friends and even when we arent playing, we hang around on our ventrilo server. :)

Its fun, just try it. Pvp isnt that bad. You might drop something but hey, as long as you keep your gun in slot 1, theres nothing you couldnt replace. And you will meet many new people.

[ZzarGladius]

When I first started playing Neocron, I had no interest in joining a clan. Maybe founding one that me and a few friends could be in, but that was about it. Later, I ended up joining one because I was grateful that one of it's members had helped stop a pker from killing me.

From that point on, I never looked back. I have loved being in clan.

I still hunt 95% solo, but keep clan chat on because sometimes people say the funniest stuff. I am not that great in PvP, but when I do come to try to help defend ops, the clan is always encouraging. It is a good situation, even though I tend to be a mostly solo player.

[Nvidia]

In order to become the best, you must be owned.

The simple fact is, NO ONE has become good at PvP without getting their ass handed to them on a silver platter more than a few times. You just gotta bite the bullet and be willing to 'suck' (for lack of better wording) for maybe a week, maybe a month (depending on your skill).

This might sound harsh, but I'm just being honest with you. I've been playing since December of 2002, and I've only recently reached a point where I consider myself a skilled PvPer. It's taken me lots of practice, believe me.

My computer is the only thing holding me back, and I can finally consider myself to do a DAMN good job for what I have to work with.

Some starting tips for you:

* Standing still won't win you any fights . Most people I fight that are new to PvP have no clue how to 'dance'. Dance basically means how you move. Everyone has their own style, but most people move slowly and in predictable patterns. This'll get you owned pretty fast. DON'T STOP MOVING!

* The speed of your computer. Kind of a sad tip, but it's true. If you take two evenly-skilled players (one with a 1.4 Athlon and one with a Pentium IV 3.2 with Hyperthreading) the second one will win every time.

* The state of your equipment. Might not seem noticable at first, but I promise you that you'll live longer with higher-quality buffs (3-5 slot spells). The heal is probably the most important spell to have MAXED out, but deflector and shelter spells are also VERY important to have maxed as well.

* Knowing your weapon. If you don't know how to handle the weapon you're using (inside and out), you're not going to do very good with it.

-What kind of range do you get on it? If you can take your oponents out from a distance, or at least hurt them a great deal before they get to you, this can instantly put the fight heavily in your favor.

-What enemy are you fighting? For example, if you're going to fight a monk, don't use a fire-modded Ray of Last Hope, when that monk almost already has capped energy resist, and if wearing a heavy fire belt, can almost totally negate any damage from that weapon. You're better off using a pierce/xray weapon on them.

*Your Resist Setup. This is the biggest part of keeping you alive long enough to win in PvP. With a shitty con setup, you cannot compete with any skilled player on any server. This is something that is completely trial-and-error, and custom-made to each player's style. Some people (such as myself) enjoy lower resists with a good boost in speed, while most prefer a con setup that turns you into a fucking god, but you have a gimped speed. For a beginner, I would recommend figuring out a balance between the two, and branching off in a different direction once you become more familiar with PvP. One thing you shouldn't do though is COME ONTO THE FORUMS ASKING FOR A COMPLETE CON SETUP. Most people get REALLY pissed at you for asking for things like that, because your con setup is what makes your character you - it reflects your playing style.

Those are really the basics for a new person when it comes to PvP. Just practice, get owned, practice, get owned, and repeat that process as many times as necessary. :) Just know ahead of time that you WILL get frustrated. It's part of the learning process. But eventually, you'll be owning people, and people will be asking you for tips on how to PvP correctly. ;)

Good luck man, and if you have a character on Pluto, I'd be more than willing to show you the ropes of PvP. I'm in a VERY strong, active clan that has everyone using voice comms. A bunch of very friendly guys, and I'm sure everyone would help get you setup with the best equipment possible.

Thanks for reading, hope some of this helps you.

[EDIT] If you want to shoot the shit with some guys in my clan and me for a couple hours, get some great advice on PvP, just send me a DM, and I'll let you know the Ventrilo Server Information. It's always great to hear and talk with new voices. :)

[winnoc]

I'm sure any clan will take you if you have a good tradeskiller and a fighter.
Tradeskillers are wanted by everyone, and so are ppu's.

[MrChumble]

Being in a clan is a mixed bag. If you join a good clan then they'll most likely help you out with weapons and equipment, so losing stuff in PvP is less of a hassle. Also there's more likely to be tradeskillers on hand willing to do bulk jobs for you, so it's easier to get well made stuff. Also there's the community side of it; most clans have some very nice people in them, and these days voice comms is common so you can get some nice banter going (or just listen in if you're a shy type, the "I don't have a mic" excuse can be used as needed :)). Lastly you get to engage in the OP war scene, which should be quite fun in NC2.

However...you'll get PKed more, randomly, by fuckwits. You'll have to put up with more abuse in DM. If you really really can't cope with brain dead morons spouting abuse at you then a clan might not be the way to go. You'll be less of an individual. Many people see clan tag first, player name second. You'll find people hold grudges against you for unfathomable reasons; clan membership + tension of OP war seems to bring out the worst in people. You'll be less free to do what you want; if you're in a clan then sometimes the clans interests must come first. If there's an OP war going on and you want to level...well it depends on the clan, but if it was mine...tough shit, get to that OP war :p

On balance I'd say being in a clan is better than not being in a clan but, unless you're a 14 year old cs kiddie with an ego problem, avoid any clan that thinks they're gods gift to PvP. They've generally missed the point of being a clan and will fall apart in a few months. Find a clan with a really nice, active leader, and if the clan happens to be good at OP warring as well then all the better.

[rubaduckythug]

Nvidia, pretty much summed it all up....... ;)



EDIT: Nvidias post should be a sticky in the n00bie section as a tutorial or guide to starting out pvping :p

[Xylaz]

Nvidia, my hero, gimme some tips to pvp correctly !!! :p

[garyu69]

Remember if you are fighting someone who has a PPU and you have one too, make sure you get in between your target and their PPU. A missed buff or heal on them could mean winning :D

[mishkin]

It's so much more fun being in a clan... you'll get to know so many new people :) If you don't care that much about roleplaying, try getting a voice-com set up ;)

[ezza]

oh and when you do get good, keep fighting, dont do what i did and stop for a long period of time, you become even suckier than before :(

[Melkior]

what server/faction are you? if you are on uranus/City mercs send me a DM/mail and i can give you a bit of help, i'm not gonna say im the best(or even particularly good) but i try =-P hell, even if you arent in the mercs if you wanna go a couple of rounds in NF get in touch =-P

[mazzaker]

The main problem to what it boils down to seems to be the "not knowing loads of people part". If you knew a couple of nice people, the question of joining or founding a clan would probably not arise at all, you would just do it.
There are many different types of clans really, the hard-core PvP players, who are all linked by voice-chat and mainly do op-fights/fights, the clans who do a bit of fighting and some other stuff, some are RP-only, some Trade-only.
I have been playing in many, many clans over the years and what I can say is this: Rip out your LE, join a clan, you will have fun. You will meet loads of nice people, you will meet some idiots as well, since they happen to be everywhere, too, but it is definately worth while. My trader has been clanless for months, but still without LE. The uncertainty of survival does add a certain something, even if you are running around with a hundred rareparts.
Clans will also help you develop PvP skills - if you have not been in a clan, you simply have no skill, period. Clans also tend to help you with other stuff, leveling is a lot faster, and it is usually a lot of fun to just log on and know someone you know will be there.

[Akuji]

oh and when you do get good, keep fighting, dont do what i did and stop for a long period of time, you become even suckier than before :(

Best tip ever, i stopped and i suck now.

By the same token don't burn yourself out by doing it too much ;)

[Dirk_Gently]

* Standing still won't win you any fights . Most people I fight that are new to PvP have no clue how to 'dance'. Dance basically means how you move. Everyone has their own style, but most people move slowly and in predictable patterns. This'll get you owned pretty fast. DON'T STOP MOVING!

I was kinda hoping kk may remove that crap from NC2. It is pretty ridiculous that my tank can run around with big heavy Ravager on his shoulder and still be accurate......and my spies with their Gatling Rifles; the poor lambs look like they struggle to lift them. Pistols and Melee fair enough but rifles and Heavy??? They should be significantly boosted in terms of damage but their aim when moving should be shot to hell.

[SypH]

Thanks for the tips Nvidia. I know full well that if I want to get good I have to get beat. I experienced this early in the game on my APU. Just as I started to get the hang of PvP and started killing rather than getting killed, the clan I was in broke up and dipersed. I never really found another bunch of people to hang with after that and kind of lost interest for a while=/ I dont expect to become a PvP god, just to have a decent time at it.

As for the LE I guess I'm just going to leave them in until NC2 arrives at least. With Saturns politics as they are you risk getting ganked by pretty much everyone=P

/edit and I've changed faction yet again=/ I've gone from Proto>TG>Proto>BD>Proto>Bio>Proto>Crahn....I'll probably have changed about 5 times again by this time next week :o

[Brammers]

I didn't join a clan until about 3 or 4 months into the game, and then when I did, I got to say it was one of the best things I ever did. I learnt lots of tips from other players, and also become friends with them. Some of them are on the wrong side now, but I still help them.

I was lucky to join a small but a very good clan, which happens to be the clan I'm leading now. A tip look around and learn about the clans if you can.

As for LE's I'm guessing you are not on Pluto, but the times I've had unclanned non-LE characters I've had no major issues at all being killed by Allied or Neutral players.

Go-one, take your LE out, and join a clan! :)

[Xizor]

Wait till NC2, Camp in NF. After some practise you will start beating people (if you have the right equipment which I assume since you've played for some time now.) When you start beating people, people will invite you to their clan. If they are nice, do it :)
Also. When you practise in NF a lot of people will give you tips along the way.

[Shadow Dancer]

They should be significantly boosted in terms of damage but their aim when moving should be shot to hell.


Yup, i agree.

[SypH]

Wait till NC2, Camp in NF. way. I'm probably gonna go with that for now. Just have to decide if I'll be NF'ing in the city or the dome?:p

[Clownst0pper]

oh and when you do get good, keep fighting, dont do what i did and stop for a long period of time, you become even suckier than before :(

Pain in the arse with 4 characters at OP level.

I cant play koro for shit now, and doubt ill get back into him for a long time! :(

Have to say, get a clan, take out your LE, get on there teamspeak channel, and youll be pvping in no time, with a PPU up your arse.

Practice makes perfect, and clan friends are the best.

<3 Phoenix