View Full Version : Weapon salvos - Changes?
Okay - I don't know why this is so... but I've always wondered why weapons are only set to fire a slavo of shots rather than automatic fire...
It's so irritating to fire at something from a distance and know one will hit, and then waste all the other shots in that salvo.
Guess I'm wondering will it be a switch to regular rates of fire in NC2?
IRL single shot and salvos is the "regular" way to fight. Full auto doesnt work
other than for suppressive fire IE machine guns, or on vehicles etc. If you
arent fighting at stupidly close range that is, oh wait all fights in NC are at
stupidly close range.
IRL single shot and salvos is the "regular" way to fight. Full auto doesnt work
other than for suppressive fire IE machine guns, or on vehicles etc. If you
arent fighting at stupidly close range that is, oh wait all fights in NC are at
stupidly close range.
My main beef is standing in front of a grimmy and not being able to empty a clip into it, If i could release a clip all in burst it would be a hell of a lot easier - but I suppose that would make it a little too easy to take em down.
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 17:43
IRL single shot and salvos is the "regular" way to fight. Full auto doesnt work
other than for suppressive fire IE machine guns, or on vehicles etc. If you
arent fighting at stupidly close range that is, oh wait all fights in NC are at
stupidly close range.
Anything other than the final bound/FIBUA is done on single shot. It's a waste of ammo otherwise, and you won't hit a thing.
Recoil of auto matic fire even of a light weapon is enough to totally fuck you aiming up, ranged bursts are only used as supressive fire over an area.
NC fights are also done in open ground.. which IRL is quite possibly the stupidest thing ever.
Not behind cover = you dead.
Anything other than the final bound/FIBUA is done on single shot. It's a waste of ammo otherwise, and you won't hit a thing.
Recoil of auto matic fire even of a light weapon is enough to totally fuck you aiming up, ranged bursts are only used as supressive fire over an area.
NC fights are also done in open ground.. which IRL is quite possibly the stupidest thing ever.
Not behind cover = you dead.
I know I know, I did army service :D
Shooting full auto is frickin fun but doesnt achieve anything but having
officers screaming at you, which also can be fun depending on the mood. We
trained doubletap shots alot tho, from ranges 10-50meters or so, worked
wonders. 3 shot bursts and doubletaps are sorta identical anyway.
And yes, NC combat is about as unrealistic as it gets, which is why I have
been promoting a reduction in runspead and increase in weapon damage -
that way suppresive fire, cover and tactics will actually come into play, just
like they have in many other "realistic" fps/mmofps games.
Full auto was ditched during beta to help with lag issues.
Shadow Dancer
30-08-04, 18:13
When I played unreal tournnament, everyone was moving stupidly fast.
When I played unreal tournnament, everyone was moving stupidly fast.
Yeah, and thats not one of the games Im talking about, more like CS,
planetside, DoD, BF, etc.
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 18:26
I know I know, I did army service :D
Shooting full auto is frickin fun but doesnt achieve anything but having
officers screaming at you, which also can be fun depending on the mood. We
trained doubletap shots alot tho, from ranges 10-50meters or so, worked
wonders. 3 shot bursts and doubletaps are sorta identical anyway.
I've only done the really basic stuff. (Officer training Corps)
Brits tend to do stuff at longer ranges, (all SA80s come with a x4 sight) though FIBUA is great fun, and fucking loud.
Double tap and/or three round burst isn't used really, unless you are in a supressing role, and if you are, you're more likely to be using an LSW, minimi or GPMG.
(GPMG live on full auto is teh win, need shoulders like a weight lifter though)
I've only done the really basic stuff. (Officer training Corps)
Brits tend to do stuff at longer ranges, (all SA80s come with a x4 sight) though FIBUA is great fun, and fucking loud.
Double tap and/or three round burst isn't used really, unless you are in a supressing role, and if you are, you're more likely to be using an LSW, minimi or GPMG.
(GPMG live on full auto is teh win, need shoulders like a weight lifter though)
Was going to go RAF before college - broken arm put paid to that though...
Pity though 92 95 94 and 98 an the tests was going to go El tech - they were desperately short in 2000, really wanted to go Ord Tech tho fun fun fun
I thought they were removing gimpies entirely in favour of lighter weapons?
Full auto was ditched during beta to help with lag issues.
thats what i thought
And yes, NC combat is about as unrealistic as it gets, which is why I have
been promoting a reduction in runspead and increase in weapon damage -
that way suppresive fire, cover and tactics will actually come into play, just
like they have in many other "realistic" fps/mmofps games.
I agree with this, however, there will need to be a major rework in how vehicles "protect" their occupants or those taking cover behind them. Otherwise, the team inside the op will have a stupidly huge advantage of cover. I agree there should be an advantage, but as of now a team attacking the OP would have no cover, just them in an open field coming at you.
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 19:28
I thought they were removing gimpies entirely in favour of lighter weapons?
They were.
There was something of a drive to phase out the gimpies and bring in the LSWs more.
What they found was they were suddenly lacking long range fire support.
An LSW is only capable as an individual weapon up to 600m, and as a section/supressive weapon up to 800m.
A gimpie can be used up to 900m direct (afaik) and as an indirect (yes indirect) fire up to over 2 km.
They have also brought in the FN minimi (para version) (http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg17-e.htm), which looks like.. a mini gimpie, it fires standard 5.56mm rounds, can be loaded via belt/box or a normal 30 rnd clip.
The army now uses all three depending on the situation.
LSW is a section level weapon and is used to supress small targets like an individual trench in a section/platoon attack at close range.
The minimi can be used at longer ranges, at a higher rate of fire (750+ rpm), but is still manouverable.
The gimpie is as said a long range midium/heavy support piece.
Double tap and/or three round burst isn't used really, unless you are in a supressing role, and if you are, you're more likely to be using an LSW, minimi or GPMG.
(GPMG live on full auto is teh win, need shoulders like a weight lifter though)
uhm actually, I was trained to always double tap with my service pistol.
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 19:39
I dunno about pistols, never been trained on them.
I meant rifles, double tap/three rnd burst for supressive fire, single shot for aimed firing.
But tbh I am an army niblet.
I dunno about pistols, never been trained on them.
I meant rifles, double tap/three rnd burst for supressive fire, single shot for aimed firing.
But tbh I am an army niblet.
I was taught to doubletap with the assaultrifles as well if it was within 50m,
anything above that is single fire tho... doubletap for pistols sorta goes
without saying :D
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 19:46
I've only done basic training, if I were to be an infantry soldier they would send me off to the special inf training centre in wales to learn how to do it properly.
I know how to do NSPs on the british 9mm browning, but nothing more, never fired one (though my dad did, put his other hand on top of the one holding it, took a massive chunk out the back of his hand as the slide came back, daft buggar).
the speed gatlin cannon was full auto when it was first introduced....but got nerfed not long after to a burst weapon
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 20:18
Why can't they make the gat weapons single shot but with the current 370 rpm?
Or was that the whle reason they got turned to burst?
Gats actually haven't changed. What has is the FPS dependant part of the RoF. It actually still fires just as fast, just before the FPS dependant stuff was removed it would seem to be firing much faster when your FPS was higher (another thing we noticed in ND when gats seemed to fire really slow at OP wars but much faster in PvM. Now they're the same).
Mumblyfish
30-08-04, 21:08
And yes, NC combat is about as unrealistic as it gets, which is why I have been promoting a reduction in runspead and increase in weapon damage - that way suppresive fire, cover and tactics will actually come into play, just like they have in many other "realistic" fps/mmofps games.
God-arsing-damnit no, no, NO! This isn't a realistic FPS! Realistic FPS games get shit boring after a while. Gameplay in NC is fast and adrenaline-pumping. If anything, boost runspeed and stamina, and decrease weapon damage. Keep the plasma flying, keep the scenery blurring around me, and keep sucking up bullets like candy. That's the Neocron I pay for. Not Shitty Urban Warfare Simulator 2k4™.
I was taught to doubletap with the assaultrifles as well if it was within 50m,
anything above that is single fire tho... doubletap for pistols sorta goes
without saying :D
I was trained to use the 3 round burst setting in close range, unless my squad was told to conserve ammunition.
I only did standard infinatry training, then was promoted and sent out for my MOS training.I've never been in combat but should do most of my work with a higher precision rifle (I was issued a Barret .50). Unfortunatly I'm only National Guard, and NG sharpshooters are almost never called (we're far less trained than an army sniper or marines) unless we're stuck as a regular infantry.
It was neat to finally get out of maryland though when I went for training.
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 22:12
(I was issued a Barret .50).
Bastard (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn54-e.htm).
Those things are evil, weigh a ton.
In afganistan a Canadian sniper team hit a man sized target (after 7 spotter rounds :p) from 2.2 km.
You would be using the three round burst setting because the m16 doesn't have full auto (afaik, the yanks I have talked to didn't have it on thiers) unlike the SA80 (single shot or full auto).
Bastard (http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn54-e.htm).
Those things are evil, weigh a ton.
In afganistan a Canadian sniper team hit a man sized target (after 7 spotter rounds :p) from 2.2 km.
You would be using the three round burst setting because the m16 doesn't have full auto (afaik, the yanks I have talked to didn't have it on thiers) unlike the SA80 (single shot or full auto).
Mine didn't have full, just the safety single and burst.
And yes, the barret .50 is a big, heavy and violent gun. I respect it very much after being trained to use it to shoot out engines at very long range.
heard about that shot too, very nice one.
Jesterthegreat
30-08-04, 22:29
Anything other than the final bound/FIBUA is done on single shot. It's a waste of ammo otherwise, and you won't hit a thing.
Recoil of auto matic fire even of a light weapon is enough to totally fuck you aiming up, ranged bursts are only used as supressive fire over an area.
NC fights are also done in open ground.. which IRL is quite possibly the stupidest thing ever.
Not behind cover = you dead.
Rambo manages it...
it appears Rambo > army :p
hell the A-Team can use weapons on full auto (admittedly they never kill a single person) :p
IRL single shot and salvos is the "regular" way to fight. Full auto doesnt work
other than for suppressive fire IE machine guns, or on vehicles etc. If you
arent fighting at stupidly close range that is, oh wait all fights in NC are at
stupidly close range.
IRL it is rare to find a submachinegun or Assault Rifle that actually has true autofire... that's usually the domain of light machineguns and support weapons, the reason being ordinary infantry have the tendancy to waste ammo when given the option to 'spray and pray'
God-arsing-damnit no, no, NO! This isn't a realistic FPS! Realistic FPS games get shit boring after a while. Gameplay in NC is fast and adrenaline-pumping. If anything, boost runspeed and stamina, and decrease weapon damage. Keep the plasma flying, keep the scenery blurring around me, and keep sucking up bullets like candy. That's the Neocron I pay for. Not Shitty Urban Warfare Simulator 2k4™.
Sorry, I think its boring as fuck to run in circles around eachother for 2 mins
shooting eachother 2489438953789 times before someone drops. Cover,
being killed after a few hits, covering fire, tactics in terms of troop
movement, all those excellent gameplay features are completely lost in NC.
Lemme paint ya a picture:
This is combat in say, planetside:
http://w1.708.telia.com/~u70804208/real%20combat.JPG
And this is combat in neocron (blue are obviously winning, they have more PPUS):
http://w1.708.telia.com/~u70804208/neocron%20combat.JPG
Now yield to my undisputable evidence.
AW!!! what a pwetty picture! :angel:
IRL it is rare to find a submachinegun or Assault Rifle that actually has true autofire... that's usually the domain of light machineguns and support weapons, the reason being ordinary infantry have the tendancy to waste ammo when given the option to 'spray and pray'
Well, the assault rifle used in sweden is a modified license built FN FNC, called
AK-5. For some reason it only has single fire and full auto. Same with the
older swedish assault rifle AK-4 which is basicly a H&K G3. Was fun to play
with anyway.
Dribble Joy
30-08-04, 22:48
Bringing in 'realistic' combat into NC would be cool, the only thing I would miss would be the deuls, they would last about 2 secs.
The SA80 is an assault rifle and has full auto, which is very usefull in extreme close combat (FIBUA mainly), it was designed in preparation for a potential war with the USSR and use in urban and defensive conditions.
Bringing in 'realistic' combat into NC would be cool, the only thing I would miss would be the deuls, they would last about 2 secs.
Cant say Id miss em, I hate em actually. Just duel so much since otherwise
there wouldnt be enuff fighting.
Much agreed Rade, what I (dis)affectionately call the NC tango is what turns me off the most about NC PvP, I might not mind doing it so much if the only viable tactic wasn't to get right up in there face no matter what weapon you use.... even the sniper rifle is just as effective at close range as long, then WFT is the point in rifles, for PvP, rifles are mostly useless IMHO they're stats aren't like a rifle, they're like a pistol with lower shot rate and more damage, oh sure for mobs the range is great, but PvP is so one-sided it's not even fun...
Also, IRL, the M-16 had the full-auto taken off, because of the tendancy to empty the clip under duress. Same with a lot of other common military weapons. The ones that are full-auto are usually issued to people that have enough training (IE the full-auto commando varient the US SFs use, or a MP-5) to know how to effectively use auto...
I would like to see some full-auto's added, butthe burst-fires kept... like adding a continuous-stream laser or a support weapon or LMG for autofire.
Much agreed Rade, what I (dis)affectionately call the NC tango is what turns me off the most about NC PvP, I might not mind doing it so much if the only viable tactic wasn't to get right up in there face no matter what weapon you use.... even the sniper rifle is just as effective at close range as long, then WFT is the point in rifles, for PvP, rifles are mostly useless IMHO they're stats aren't like a rifle, they're like a pistol with lower shot rate and more damage, oh sure for mobs the range is great, but PvP is so one-sided it's not even fun...
Too true, I feel for everyone who has tried to fight as a sniper in NC, or that
thinks cannons and stuff will be used for heavy suppressive fire at medium
range.. pfft.
I have 2 RL friends that played NC for about 6 months starting at launch,
both likes the idea, and likes the new features promised in bdoy, yet
everytime I bug them about starting again all I get from them is "are they
doing anything about the circle running?".
Not too mention how vehicles are being pushed in the corner since its faster
to run to places than to drive there :(
Shadow Dancer
30-08-04, 22:58
I've come to the conclusion wade is right. Speed should be reduced in NC. I also think all weapon ranges should be drasticly reduced. So that a rifler wouldn't HAVE to be in TG shooting at a target in TH to feel like he's finally taking advantage of his range. But I also think the local list should be removed then. You know, so people can actually hide and stuff. :rolleyes:
I've come to the conclusion wade is right. Speed should be reduced in NC. I also think all weapon ranges should be drasticly reduced. So that a rifler wouldn't HAVEto be in TG shooting at a target in TH to feel like he's finally taking advantage of his range. But I also think the local list should be removed then. You know, so people can actually hide and stuff. :rolleyes:
Im always right, it took you this long to notice?
Shadow Dancer
30-08-04, 23:01
Im always right, it took you this long to notice?
There's still alot I disagree with you about.
:p
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