View Full Version : epic reset is goint to kill RP ...
I think we are going to see hundreds of Protopharm and Biotech runners, just for the implants, and this will REALLY slow down the process of recreating clans and community...
it's IMO even worse than ressetting the implants, with reset implants we would have had to hunt a bit to find those on grims or WB, now we'll have to change factions to do the epics, it's going to cost a lot of time .. and maybe money.
NC2 first months will be hundreds and hundreds of BT and PP runners .... wow. now that's not the best solution :(
what do you think ?
and cm for speed gat and cs for crahn gauntlet and fa for tradeskill chip and bd for the drug thingy oh wait they'll be going to lots of different factions for different epic rewards wow
yes i focused on PP and BT because it's the most common but you are right, some will do more than one or two epics ... = even more time before we'll see a real RP community :rolleyes:
i don't get what u are suggesting? that no one does any epics ever so that they have time to rp?
Yeah, there should be more epic in NC2, hopefully good enough to make other players choose other factions instead of going BT or PP.
keeping the epic items would have been better ...
we would immediatlly have focused on creating the clans & faction ....
well i mean basicly i wanna arrive in NC2 with a character fully usable ......... it has moveon and proto imps on :(((
if i could just have thoses two, i'd be happy ;)
how can u keep the epics when the people that have done anti city epics and got the "standard" reward for them can't redo it?
epic status reset, but keep the epic items... i think that would be the best solution.
so that know we dont HAVE to do the epic for the moveon & proto for exemple, but we do epics if we WANT, cause we already got a fully usable character.
you see what i mean ? :)
The epic system as it is today has allways been an RP killer people did the faction hop before. It is only now with the wipe that it get more attention as it will cause a massive migration to the most intresting factions like BT, PP, CM, Crahn ...
I cannot say i'm pleased with the fact that this is happening. I know it can't be too hard to transfer our "Epic Status" over to the new servers (not as much as the Epic Reward Items).
What they should do, is transfer your "Epic Status" over to the new servers (e.g. CityAdmin-Not Completed, BioTech-Completed, NeXT-Completed, etc..) and for every "completed" on the epic status list for your character, you would get the epic reward for that faction.
So, you get to carry over your Implants, Armor, as well as your 10 quickbelt slots. But also when you first login for the first time, the game reads the databases, and see's you have completed certian epic runs, and then the game will give you the epic reward items for whichever faction(s) you have completed the epic runs for.
May sound a bit confusing, but a good overall idea.
So, you get to carry over your Implants, Armor, as well as your 10 quickbelt slots. But also when you first login for the first time, the game reads the databases, and see's you have completed certian epic runs, and then the game will give you the epic reward items for whichever faction(s) you have completed the epic runs for.
May sound a bit confusing, but a good overall idea.
And what do you do with the temp epic of the anti city faction. They are flagged as completed aswell.
And what do you do with the temp epic of the anti city faction. They are flagged as completed aswell.
If they are flagged as completed, even though I wasn't the "same" epic run, I still say give it to them. I mean, they still completed an Epic Quest for that faction, they still deserve their epic reward.
Then again, its kinda a two-sided thing with the temporary epics.
Just because anti-city epic status has to be reset doesn't mean epic items that people already own have to be wiped. That's just stupid - I bet most of the anticity players have their own PPRs and Moveons anyway so it's not relevant.
I'm going to be the odd one out here and venture that just because RIGHT NOW people have made all their setups to require multiple epic items that isn't a good reason not to revamp them
The whole: I made my setup really inflexible because I figured out your system. YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR SYSTEM! is bad logic in my opinion.
Epic items should be unique to a given faction, not a requirement to be a good PvPer in a given class.
Its fine, you make it sound like its and epic adventure to do an eipic jeez they only take like 2 hours :P
I think the new plan has thought a lot more about the player base 2day.
It will mean work in a differnt way but its a lot betterthan losing a lot more, epics are fun.. no really they are.
I'm going to be the odd one out here and venture that just because RIGHT NOW people have made all their setups to require multiple epic items that isn't a good reason not to revamp them
The whole: I made my setup really inflexible because I figured out your system. YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR SYSTEM! is bad logic in my opinion.
Epic items should be unique to a given faction, not a requirement to be a good PvPer in a given class.
I know where you're coming from. Thing is, firstly, I don't think the loss to each class from the epic chips is balanced. E.g. my Tank for example is going to lose about 20 armor points from each resist with the loss of PPR (since my setup aims for flip points) and 100 HP from the loss of the Moveon. My PE isn't going to lose nearly so much, so class balance becomes more upset.
Second, it means most people across the board will have weaker defence. But look at it more closely. Which class uses PPR/Moveon the least of all? I'll give you a clue. All Tanks use both. Most PE setups use at least one. A Spy that doesn't die in 3 hits requires Moveon. Defensive hybrid setups use them. Even some APUs use Moveon for the resist force. But how many PPUs use them, and need them? Result - even more disparity between the PPU and other classes.
speculating about the balance of NC2 is really kind of pointless, because there's going to be SO MUCH new stuff added (from what I've heard) that the item balance will be really different from what it is now.
I agree it's going to mess up balance a little, but anything that makes people actually have to start re-thinking their setups a little instead of indoctrinating "A spy needs an SA, an SF a MOVEON and a Ballistic" into every new player that comes into the game. When I joined my clan, I was given a set of everything I would need when I had I capped to make an optimal character, everyone that joined when I did was... there were at least 4 spes that were all cookie-cutter copies of each other.
That kind of mentality needs to be changed, and making epics what they are supposed to be: Faction rewards not nessisary items, is a step in the right direction.
Honestly I know a lot of people are resisting these changes, because it's different from what they're used to, but it shows, IMHO that KK finally got their head out of their ass and figured out how to go about improving gameplay and balance with more than just stop-gap nerf patches.
Fair enough, but IMO a shift in the purpose of epics like that would need to be accompanied by some other changes - Inq armor req lowered for example to enable spies to wear it.
tomparadox
18-08-04, 06:32
i think the epic whipe sucks.... hes right, everyone is going to go BT/crahn/PP or CM for the damn chips/glove and speed gat...
And what do you do with the temp epic of the anti city faction. They are flagged as completed aswell.
Look just because KK was not compentent enough to get all the epics in at the time they put the epics in the game is no reason to make the playbase take it in the ass.
tomparadox
18-08-04, 06:36
Look just because KK was not compentent enough to get all the epics in at the time they put the epics in the game is no reason to make the playbase take it in the ass.
Erm, from my understanding KK dident get the rest in because of the story line...
Erm, from my understanding KK dident get the rest in because of the story line...
lol you buy that crap. I have some things to sell you.
tomparadox
18-08-04, 06:50
ol you buy that crap. I have some things to sell you.
not realy =p, i dident feel like finding a quote...
if you wanna know my acual opinion, i couldent give a shit eather way. i think the item whipe is stupid, but i dont care wether they whipe them or not, because non of my chars need an epic.
yeah Tom I have some great... um... alluvially advantaged... land in Florida for you. ;)
And some of these great fillet knives, cut tin cans like nothing :p
I only read a few posts including Candaman's and I must say I agree with him in general, in addition to the fact that PP Resistor Chip and Moveon chips are very specific..
Lots of builds can work without them.
Lots of builds don't require them to work fully, or even properly.
Those builds that DO require them, will most likely have to attach themselves to BT & PP.
Anyways, I'll be more than happy with my epic glove until my RP will 'make' me go for all the epics (whenever that is... O.o)
Edit: Read some more of the thread...
I am one of those tinkerers that do figure out stuff in 'the system' and make builds to maximize potential thus. I have made multiple builds....but I knew this would happen. I don't care, I'll rebuild again and again.
I have better experience now than I did long ago, and that experience enables me to say those epic chips are, specific builds aside, leveling tools at most.
Fuck yeah I'd love to implant-fuck myself with a moveon for the exp, but uh...I think I'll stick with my RP. :p
Look just because KK was not compentent enough to get all the epics in at the time they put the epics in the game is no reason to make the playbase take it in the ass.How are you going to speak to an NPC in DoY if DoY doesn't exist?
EDIT: Btw Tom your sig is too wide, IIRC the rule is not to extend the screen on 1024 resolution, I'm on 1152 and it still extends the screen, also the left pic doesn't work.
I'm going to be one of the few that refuse to faction hop. I'll stay Tsunami even tho my faction doesn't give a crap about me. I'll be hoping I can either buy a Crahn Glove from someone or I can knock one of those bastards out in a dark corner and steal it.
a b s t r x
19-08-04, 09:25
*stands on one foot*
hop, hop, hopperoo.
i'll be one of the many people whoring the BT and PP epics for the rewards, because the other options available to me are too time-consuming and expensive (in-game), i.e. trading for it, pk'ing for it. i don't have enough free time for it to be buying a moveon for every character.
still, i believe that wiping the epics is going to be of minor concern when we finally get to play NC2. newcomers will start with even less than what we've got. instead of treating NC2 like an expansion pack, i'm trying to look at it like a whole new game.
we just get a headstart :)
They'll just have to implement the theft of faction rewards (epic items) and we'll have the rp from the very beginning ;)
Funny thing is tho, all those hundreds of runners joining BT and PP for the epic items will miss out on exploring all the new stuff with DoY ;)
That may be the case, but to each their own.
This is a case of all epics being 'new'. People will find out info on the tradeskill chip soon enough, for example. Besides, you don't need all 10-12 (I forgot how many factions there are, eheh) epics or be a paladin to rock at pvp anyway.
I know the game is kinda forcing people to side with factions if they require an epic, but honestly how worthwhile is it being in a faction you don't necessarily want to be in? If you don't care, power to ye, but I still think there are better things than the epics in general.
i didnt read the whole thread so if some1 posted it already > sry
but the solution would be that the items should be bind to the fraction
so only proto can use resistor and bio moveone etc...
Agent FunHead
19-08-04, 19:25
i dont care any about the epic resets they are too easy to get anyways.
Just roll a melee tank and level him with ppu support for a day, then do epic, then reroll char and start over.
and the situation with the epics wont be any different to when they first came out anyways. "i'll be back in clan in 2 days guys gotta go get a couple epics"
ffs this thread makes epics out to be epic.
and cm for speed gat and cs for crahn gauntlet and fa for tradeskill chip and bd for the drug thingy oh wait they'll be going to lots of different factions for different epic rewards wow
Ew. I agree with Cannings. :wtf:
But yeah - Epics will give everyone reason to explore or trade. It will be fine, there are bigger things to moan about :rolleyes:
i didnt read the whole thread so if some1 posted it already > sry
but the solution would be that the items should be bind to the fraction
so only proto can use resistor and bio moveone etc...
You should read : ) We've already gone over that. The rewards for certain faction's epics are way to important for certain classes/professions. For example every monk will be dependant on Crahn for the glove. This is not balanced in any way, shape, or form.
Until they either make epic prizes not so important for specific classes/professions or give every faction apropriate prizes for every class/profession, then making the prizes faction only just makes the situation worse.
Imagine having to fight a Crahn Clan when 90% of the server's Monks are in that faction. Not only will your non Crahn Clan have very few if any Monks, but they won't be aswell equipped as Crahn Monks. The same goes for other classes/factions but its not so clear cut. The majority of tanks will be either Biotech or City Merc or maybe Twilight Guardian(I forget exactly what the prize was, I think it was Tank related tho). Tradeskillers will mostly be Fallen Angels for the tradeskiller chip, PE's and Spies will either be BT/PP or TT/Tsunami for rifles. Can you say Crahn Domination?
i dont care any about the epic resets they are too easy to get anyways.
Just roll a melee tank and level him with ppu support for a day, then do epic, then reroll char and start over.
and the situation with the epics wont be any different to when they first came out anyways. "i'll be back in clan in 2 days guys gotta go get a couple epics"
ffs this thread makes epics out to be epic.
Supposedly it's going to be much tougher to change factions and extremely difficult to change between nc and doy.
Agent FunHead
19-08-04, 19:43
too tough to roll a char? wtf
I think we are going to see hundreds of Protopharm and Biotech runners, just for the implants, and this will REALLY slow down the process of recreating clans and community...
Well the first few months will be spent getting the clans back on their feet, and exploring the new areas of DoY. Some people need a PP/Move-on for their setup, and will be either sent "on assignment" to obtain one. Ok communications will be tricky between the members with the clan/faction channel, but not being in a clan doesn't mean you are not a member.
Anyone who goes on a epic, gets the backing of the whole clan to help them, we work together as a team, to get the job done quickly.
it's IMO even worse than ressetting the implants, with reset implants we would have had to hunt a bit to find those on grims or WB, now we'll have to change factions to do the epics, it's going to cost a lot of time .. and maybe money.
NC2 first months will be hundreds and hundreds of BT and PP runners .... wow. now that's not the best solution :(
what do you think ?
I've got to re-do the epics, which I'll do, when I got the time. Also you need to have epic status to open a clan key, so all the major clan leads will do doing epics on the first day!
Yes there will be lots of BT/PP runners, but as I see it lots of cash for us FA peeps for epic kills. :p
But as to your title, no it wont kill the RP.
I feel bad for all the people that are going to go BT or PP then realize 1: With the new Faction guard rules it's going to be harder to switch back and 2: The faction reward for their anti-DoY former faction is far better for them than the MOVEON... :lol:
But you guys have no clue if there even are MOVEON or PP resistor in NC2... They will do new epic runs, why not new epic rewards. Maybe thats the reason why they wont allow you to bring your ubah epic item setup over to NC2?
Here's my (Quick) RP reasons for doing the epics. (In order)
1. Tangent - I had to show my loyality to the clan and the faction. This was when I joined GTL in Tangent (Yes I didn't start in Fallen Angels!)
2. When we moved to Fallen Angels to start Phoenix, I went and visited NExT to obtain offical recognition for construction of vehicles.
3. Fallen Angels - quite simply to prove I am a free mind.
As for doing the CM,CA,DRE,PP epics I did those in 3 days. My excuse was quite simply visiting friends. Just before I made my way back from BT to FA, I made a quick visit to TT HQ to remind the Director of operators - don't mess with the Angels. :D
My RP reasons were that I need the implants so I wouldnt suck in PvP. Wait... thats not a very good reason. Its because I was really confused and searching for answers in the other factions. And with DoY I will get really confused again, and I'll look for answers again in the same places I was looking before. And because I dont want to suck in PvP. Wait... Oh yah, now I remember, there are no legimate roleplaying reasons to go faction hoping, so for those of us who enjoy remaining true to our character...oh well. Do the epics again and dont try to pretend you are visiting friends in enemy factions who want to kill you. *coughs* Brammers. *coughs*. :p
yet another terrible decision KK,
deleting epics is not a good idea there are going to be hundreds and hundreds of biotech runners for movon seeing as its in setups for every single class, and this is going to make moveon extremely valuable to begin and therefor "messing" up the economy once again......
KK this is not even a slightly good idea, people are going to flock to BT, then PP, Then FA, Then maybe CM, Then crahn then back to there own faction.... sound like a good idea KK? i didnt think so... so before doing anything think about it 1st and try not to upset ur gaming communty and think about the consiquenses on op wars and role play
gg KK gg
yet another terrible decision KK
Don't listen to him KK, you're doing the right thing. I have 11 Moveons, and 8 Protos, not even counting the rest of the epic items. And this is on Pluto - no 4-Slot epic running. The economy is unbalanced - just make the rest of the faction items worthwhile and this will encourage more player trade.
YaY for Epic Item Removal!
And YaY for Reputation System being revoked so people can't be asshats over my opinion!
Endar has a reasonably good point...
Lol FN :p
Carinth, even though I myself drool for the glove...
Chran Sect is storyline-wise where the majority of the monks are supposed to be, right? Really, correct me if I'm wrong; it's been ages since I looked at the story.
However, the bonus imo isn't all THAT required. People who want a harder challenge will most likely be a monk that won't go for the glove. Yes, it helps, but not that much.
Yes, it will make a lot of monks go over (return to?) the Sect, but I seriously doubt the count increase will be that many.
From a personal point of view, I think it'll be a good thing. Psi monks in general aren't exactly looked up on well. It's usually they're looked down upon? So why shouldn't they be more likely to be DoY-aligned than NC-aligned?
Lucas Anderson
20-08-04, 03:32
Just so you all know, BioTech welcomes all new runners :)
==
OOC, now if I could just make it so that once people get the epic item they stay, maybe put some 'evil' requirements on move on, such as faction=BT? hehe, anyways continue your debate, I like reading :lol:
OOC, now if I could just make it so that once people get the epic item they stay, maybe put some 'evil' requirements on move on, such as faction=BT? hehe, anyways continue your debate, I like reading :lol:
I don't think it would be fair to limit the Moveon to BioTech only. However, considering BioTech's concern in the area of runners earning Moveons and then promptly disappearing, I would imagine the techs would perhaps try a new chip which also provides a nice boost, but is also fitted with a BioTech only security system. ;)
They could erase that status for all temporary epics.
Then have an NPC in for the first few weeks you could go talk to, one in each faction HQ (for improved safety) who would give you epic items for every faction you were a master in.
I have to say im not as angry as i thought i would be, probably because of my relif at the item wipe because i worked my ass off, mainly with my faction symps to get thru currently, 9 epics, (again that whole 'work down the drain' feeling)
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