View Full Version : Good Guys and Bad guys in neocron
this is kind of a off shoot from another thread that was talking about early retail memories whathave you.
and a point i made was that theres no good guys and bad guys, someone said pretty much everyone is a bad guy.
i remember a time when you pretty much knew who was good and who was bad.
like early days on saturn, you knew clans like HATE, Blood Brothers(once they moved to TG anyway) were bad guys.
you would get someone pking at MB, someone shouts pkers, then before you knew it the good guys arrive, ready to fight the evil TG or BD killer.
but it seems now that noone cares, someone gets killed and people are like ya and what go sort it yourself.
now its like who is the good guys? you have CA who i suppose should be concidered the good, however they dont seem to do that, they dont have the experience of possibly numbers to head out and fight these guys where they are, in fact they are more likely to leave.
hell my tank i killed 5 CAs at once, so that shows the level of ability of that faction(and i know thats not all of CA cos they have good runners like Scikar for one)however thats just to illustrate a point.
do we need a return to the good guy bad guy style.
and more to the point what do we concider makes the diffrence between the good and bad in neocron
that would work but the time ur talking about people were spread over the factions more or less evenly, later on it started to get a heavy Anti city bias
Now its 7/10 anti city
if i was 3/10 u think i would go defend some thing that i will get insulted for doing??
Remember being part of a CA clan and if we defended MB we got abuse for being care bears and not letting people pk :rolleyes:
As in Real Life the Good Guys are the side your on and the Bad Guys are your enemy, it's all about point of view.
I guess i'll be one of the neutral guys as i'm in CM.
But in the end you kinda seem to get everyone against you when you get paid to fight.
Dribble Joy
17-08-04, 13:19
I have nearly allways ignored pkers that are neutral unless they are killing other CM runners, unless someone pays me that is.
Define good and bad as genty said
its all PoV
your side Good, other side BAD
i.e. ur PKing at mb enjoying ur self, are u there for bad ??? or are u ridding the world of these evil noobs ??
evil = you go out with the intention of killing someone else
Good = you doing your usual stuff and defend yourself and others.
One thing I always found very funny, storyline the CA should be worst assholes, but ingame its usually the anticity factions that are the worst.
hell my tank i killed 5 CAs at once, so that shows the level of ability of that faction(and i know thats not all of CA cos they have good runners like Scikar for one)however thats just to illustrate a point.
It is not only the ability. If someone shoots me from behind i reach for a smoke and let myself be "killed". No need to fight. What for? In my opinion many people, like myself, are simply tired of meaningless fights.
There is no Bad guys cos real bad guys RP type would kill everyone no alliances no friends just go to MB with no imps or weapons just a rhino and kill everyone that leaves the MB
There is no Bad guys cos real bad guys RP type would kill everyone no alliances no friends just go to MB with no imps or weapons just a rhino and kill everyone that leaves the MBthats not bad guy thats just mindless killing.
yes BvG is point of view.
however there was a time when someone went pking, the "good" be it CS/CA/CM would go fight the pkers regardless
now its just killing whoever regardless
Lately it's just been too quiet in neocron.
Almost all my clannies have gone off to play another game, till doy comes out.
I'm sure every faction is gonna get reorganised come doy, with new people flooding in etc.
its not point of view really well a lil but we all know TG supposed to be eveil terrorists and bd evil gangsters etc
i think the real problem is most are now anti city and the fact peops are boored
lemme give u an example
say that once the bad guys raided legs say mb so the good guys came to the rescuse was fun for both, sooo the bad guys did it again alil later,, again the good guys came.. then it happened again and again and again to the point of it happening several times a day for a very long ass time it gets booring and eventually u just dont care
this is why i wanna keep raids on NC city and DOY city it self to a minimum
and make it a rare occation so that when it acctually happened defenders will enjoy it and it will be a blast
its not point of view really well a lil but we all know TG supposed to be eveil terrorists and bd evil gangsters etc
i think the real problem is most are now anti city and the fact peops are boored
lemme give u an example
say that once the bad guys raided legs say mb so the good guys came to the rescuse was fun for both, sooo the bad guys did it again alil later,, again the good guys came.. then it happened again and again and again to the point of it happening several times a day for a very long ass time it gets booring and eventually u just dont care
this is why i wanna keep raids on NC city and DOY city it self to a minimum
and make it a rare occation so that when it acctually happened defenders will enjoy it and it will be a blastya you do have a point there, i know when i was Cartel when we raided MB after a while the Mercs wouldnt come back.
it was even worse at TG, after the first round of killing they would disapear from face of the game.
i wouldnt mind playing the good guy again, thou i stay with my clan for the time so i guess we will have to see ifNC2 brings a change for the better in regards to this.
tho unless something radical happens in the mentality of the players then i cant see much change.
once upon a time(although the mercs are ment to be neutral)i concidered mercs on the side of good, now they are just as bad as anyone.
its just like its a free for all in game now and anyone is a target
tho unless something radical happens in the mentality of the players then i cant see much change
lots of n00bs and a fun game will hopefully make players have fun again and not be uba bored
From a pk oriented point of view (pk oriented I mean the player that plays for the pvp / peekaay only, no rp etc.) it would make more sense nowadays to play a procity faction. If you favor pvp over anything you should always take the faction with the least people in it which will render you with lots of enemies to kill all day long.
The Ottoman
17-08-04, 14:34
I liked the times when the evil TG would raid CA headquarters. The good CA runners would come and fight them. That was actually fun.
At first everyone thought clans like NDA were "good". Now I think that most of the pro-city clans are just as bad as anti-city.
It all depends on what side you are on.
Beeing a good guy is extremely hard, one of my ex-clan members said to me one day that i'm making a suicide commando clan (and quit NC :( ). It's hard simply because in no time it will be you against 99% of the server, as everyone pk at a time, and every clan will always try to help their own member, even if they dont agree with his actions.
Another down side of it is that *most* people will try to use you to their advantage, knowing you are bound to obey some set of the rules. It happened all the time.
It's a really hard job.
At first everyone thought clans like NDA were "good". Now I think that most of the pro-city clans are just as bad as anti-city.
It all depends on what side you are on.
actually i disagree on that.
now i was crahn most of early retail, now there was a TG clans called blood brothers and MiG, they were allied to me, did me no harm, in fact i was allied with MiG however didnt change the fact i still viewd them as bad guys.
i agree it used to be fun when TG raided the NCPD, remember a few guys(some sadly not in CA anymore) all going to fight the evil terrorists.
although you can say CA are evil ment to be dictator, and its all point of view stuff.
but in a sence they are ment to be the good guys.
its like although pretty much from start to date FA have been enemy i never concidered them bad guys(in fact concider my crahn faction more bad than them)
It's a really hard job. yar i agree, when iwas merc, hell of a lot of raids going on, but i loved fighting it.
CMA used to enforce a no pking in the MB rule, now that was hard, however i concidered it fair(even when i would later break it as crahn)FA kills TT, CM comes kills FA, CM becomes bad guy just for doing there job
CMA used to enforce a no pking in the MB rule, now that was hard, however i concidered it fair(even when i would later break it as crahn)FA kills TT, CM comes kills FA, CM becomes bad guy just for doing there job
Yeah, that's basically how it works, and everytime you kill some bad guy, his friends start to attack you, so u have to kill his friends, then his clan, then his faction etc etc. In the end is only you against everyone on the server...
And in fact, its pretty unthankful job, because there are lot more people who will hate your clan than those who will be thankfull for saving their lives...
Aye, i tried to be a NCPD cop once .......
Even the Pro-city people were acting like thughs trying to get me down in the cellars to gank me.
Interesting point. I think that roleplay itself, and hence, good and bad guys, has blurred as time has gone by. People that were once 'good' (as in helpful, no pk etc etc) changed when they got capped and bored.
I think that Ezza has a point in saying the early days (at least on Saturn), contained mostly good (depending on your definition) guys in pro city (CA, TT) against the 'evil' TG / Crahn. I know for example that in my CA faction there were no random pkers, and if there was one we all knew about it and actively tried to stop him.
At first everyone thought clans like NDA were "good". Now I think that most of the pro-city clans are just as bad as anti-city
well its also time and boredom that made the city clans be *bad*
peops make city pk clans that kill everyone including city peops cuz they bored
the faction thing is really fucked up
If you talk about an RP point of view, I think no faction is black or white, they are all grey (some darker gray than others, of course).
Who said pro-city were supposed to be good guys?? The CA enforces a strict law, they protect a dictatorship, I wouldn't call them "good guys". Biotech, Protopharma and others are corporations who only care about profit, they do experiments on mutants, and all, not exactly good either.
If you talk about a PK point of view, there is not really a difference between factions (talking about Venus). Well there might be slightly more PKs in anti-city factions, and more "good guys" or carebears in pro-city factions... but anyway, why should the CA protect people against PKs? Why would they protect a Tsunami or BD? Each faction should take care of its people and its neighborhood... Although it would be nice if the CA were respected and could enforce the law once in a while (yes, they are weak on Venus too)
At first everyone thought clans like NDA were "good". Now I think that most of the pro-city clans are just as bad as anti-city.
It all depends on what side you are on.NDA really were good guys in early retail. They were basically protectors of newbs against pkers. But then the SL changes happened, and there werent as many pkers to fight against, so they started doing op wars and such and basically became as bad as anyone. They would pk low level enemy people just as much as every one else. When I rerolled to a PE the first person to pk me was in NDA. :lol:
Personally I almost wish I could switch sides and be a good guy just because Neocron needs them so bad. But my character is about as BD as they come, I dont think I could leave BD even if I wanted tom which I dont. :p
greendonkeyuk
17-08-04, 17:20
well if the proposed server merges go through then i guess all you saturn peeps will be lumped in with the uranus peeps and i doubt highly whether everyone is gonna want to end up in the same faction/cityloyalty so there will be plenty of opportunity to be the "good" guys or the "bad" guys dependant on as genty eloquently put, your pov.
I think it will be fun to play again even if we dont get all the 1000s of noobs coming, at least coz we will have new friends to kill and enemies to yell at.... :D
well if the proposed server merges go through then i guess all you saturn peeps will be lumped in with the uranus peeps and i doubt highly whether everyone is gonna want to end up in the same faction/cityloyalty so there will be plenty of opportunity to be the "good" guys or the "bad" guys dependant on as genty eloquently put, your pov.
I think it will be fun to play again even if we dont get all the 1000s of noobs coming, at least coz we will have new friends to kill and enemies to yell at.... :D
personally im happy to play with new people from other servers, just as longas they dont interfere with my current faction rivalries
Dribble Joy
17-08-04, 17:35
personally im happy to play with new people from other servers, just as longas they dont interfere with my current faction rivalries
Problem is that different faction rivalries being lumped together would be bad when people suddenly find themselves attacked by thier supposed allies and their supposed enemies complaining when you attack them.
FA and TG are at war on uranus, CM and DRE are at war on pluto.
Problem is that different faction rivalries being lumped together would be bad when people suddenly find themselves attacked by thier supposed allies and their supposed enemies complaining when you attack them.
FA and TG are at war on uranus, CM and DRE are at war on pluto.
its ok this is a in house crahn thing between 2 clans ;)
theres a small pp clan on jupiter that just stand by their grounds, but by doing so they get kos by chran, CA and some other allied faction... not to mention some egghead on jupiter's pp "counsil" made a nap with next faction... comeon theyre enemy faction.
IF and this a BIG IF
KK put some effort in clanwars... Imagine being able to shoot your enemies without regarding what stupid faction theyre in...
Aziraphale
17-08-04, 17:56
its not point of view really well a lil but we all know TG supposed to be eveil terrorists and bd evil gangsters etc
Twilight Guardian are not suposed to be 'Evil terrorists', they are a group which disagrees with Reeza's dictatorship and are fighting to bring him down. Freedom Fighters is a more accurate term really, however most of the players in NC only join TG because it means they can kill lots of people without suffering SL penalties.
There are two different definitions of good/bad.
From the faction standpoint, it's like Genty said. You can't talk about one side being good and one side being evil. It's been said many times that TG is evil in this thread, but that's just not the case. If you spent time in the canyon you'd find out that they consider themselves freedom fighters. They want to knock out reeza and free the people of Neocron. To them, CA is a fascist dictatorship. Nc vs Doy is not good vs bad, it's red vs blue.
The only real good/bad we've had is in atittude. When populations were higher we had a large variety of pvp types. Some only fight capped (or close) players, some fight anyone they see, some specificly target the weak. Some fight for the fun of it, some fight to win. Some fight with morals/guidelines, some throw everything but the kitchen sink at ya.
With this you can roughly divide the pvpr's into good and bad. The bad guys regularly raided the sewers, going on noob killing sprees. The good guys would show up and fight off the bad guys. Back then I was in a biotech clan that helped NDA. I remember patrolling the sewers, going from one zone to another incase any baddies showed up.
Then the community shot itself in the foot. From every corner there were demands to reduce pk'ing and noob ganking. So kk went ahead and shackled the bad guys. Really made their lives difficult. Not suprisingly the bad guys started quitting en masse. Further reductions in pvp, like belt drops, continued drive the bad guys away. Aswell as bans for shady dealings, they were bad guys afterall. With most of the bad guys gone or bored with no easy pvp outlet, we turned on each other. The good guys split up, switched factions, and started fighting each other. For a long while most of us maintained pretty good relations with each other, clans often had friendly fights with each other.
But what started happening now was human nature. When you fight someone for a long time, things are bound to happen to erode your relationship. Members being ganked, less moral members acting shady, zerging, ninja hacking, shady tactics, etc. Things will pile up until you really do begin to dislike your enemy. At that point it's nolonger a fun fight, you're out to get them.
Now things much worse then the previous bad guys start happening. Now you have no clearly defined good or bad. You have personal vendettas and grudges built up. It just went downhill from there. We havn't had much new blood in ages. So its the same people fighting the same people, as the population slowly dwindles.
In short, if you want good guys, you need bad guys. In order to have bad guys you hafta face the possiblity of noob ganking, gr ganking, and alll the lame pvp that makes one "Bad." With people like that around, it's easy to polarize the population. Those that really dislike that behavior will band together to fight them.
I guess i'll be one of the neutral guys as i'm in CM.
But in the end you kinda seem to get everyone against you when you get paid to fight.
Arn't CM good guys now?
MjukisDjur
17-08-04, 19:42
Mjukisdjur = good guy :P
RP-wise? TG is good in my eyes, seeking oust the dictator Lioon Reza and replace NC's government with a democracy to let the people rule themselves. ProtoPharm might also be considered good, but then like most of the pro-city factions they're really a corporation aimed at making money. So that basically counts out all of procity. CA are basically Reza's secret police, technically acting on his word rather than morals and laws, they're not really looking to serve justice - that's what TG are trying to do. Black Dragon are thugs and gangsters, Tsunami are more refined but still pimps and run shady clubs - hardly the typical goodies. CM and FA aren't good or bad, just neutral, though FA are allied with TG and help them out they're more interested in just protecting themselves from Tangent than helping out the citizens of Neocron. Crahn are power hungry gits who want to take NC back under their control like the old days.
So in a good to bad ranking, personally I'd say:
TG
Protopharm
FA
CM
Next
Diamond
BioTech
Tangent
Tsunami
CA
Crahn
BD
So nyer to all you "TG are evil" folk. :p
On a gameplay-wise look though, I don't think there really are bad guys in any particular faction any more. You get some clans who act like assholes more than others, but they aren't really faction related. The old days of real evil people are long gone, mostly because the community whined about them. Having evil players like HATE is partly good and partly a bad thing, just depending on how focussed they are. I didn't like the fact that HATE were TG but didn't live up to any TG ideals (and even fought everyone else in TG). I would have liked to see them moved to Anarchy Breed though and basically made hostile to everyone. So they wouldn't have been able to go into the city or any faction HQs very easily, but their desire to kill everybody could be integrated into the game. Then you have the good guys who protect people from them and hunt them down etc. which creates content and fun for everyone.
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