View Full Version : MERGED - Plan file update #2
Holger Nathrath
17-08-04, 10:20
Plan File Thread (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=106657)
Plan File Update #1 (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=106943)
There are a few more things we’d like to comment on right now:
1. We consider you, the Neocron community, as something very special. Very few MMORPGs have such a strong and active community. We from the KK team would like to things remain that way and that will always be our goal.
2. The constant allegations that we would purposely lie to you are upsetting the whole team. We are not lying to you. On one hand, we are expected to release all information as soon as possible, while on the other hand we are being bashed each time something doesn’t go as planned. We are trying to follow a coherent strategy, but from time to time things just don’t work out as planned. We simply can’t make everyone happy all the time.
3. The Games Convention is one of the three most important industry fairs in the world and is the largest one in Europe. We are currently involved in accordingly intensive preparations to be able to optimally position our company and product. The whole team is working late into the night. This is the reason for the currently perceived slow flow of information and definitely not a sign of lack of interest on our part.
We have been following the discussions on the forums closely. I’d like to address some points right now, so you won’t have to wait a week for answers:
1. The release date for Neocron 2 is definitely end of September! Any other speculations are without foundation.
2. We are trying to meet your wishes as far as possible. In addition to the items in the quickbelt, all the items in the implant and armor windows will be transferred too. That way, the number of transferable items will be increased considerably.
3. All items gained from epic runs will be deleted and the status of all epics will be reset, so everyone will be able to play the runs again. That way everyone is treated the same way, as the keys for the Reveler Chaincraft and the warehouse can not be transferred for technical reasons.
4. We will use the server configuration mentioned in the plan file for the release of Neocron 2, but we know we might have to set up additional servers fairly quickly depending on the load on the initial servers. As there are a lot of complaints about the lack of a one slot international server, especially in the English community, we put that server on top of our list and will add it as soon as the load on the other servers allows it.
5. Concerning the character transfer: All characters will be transferred into a big database at an appointed date. During this transfer, all the possession of the characters will be removed, except for the items in the quickbelt, the worn armor and implants. Players will be able to either move these characters to the Neocron Classic server or upgrade them to Neocron 2. While the characters transferred to NC Classic remain in this database, characters upgraded to NC2 will be deleted from this database to prevent them from being loaded from that backup again. All other characters remain in the database and can be upgraded at a later time. So even if a player wants to do the upgrade to NC2 sometime after the release, his character data will represent the status of the appointed date. This is also the case if the character has been played on the Neocron Classic server in the meantime. We will announce the date for this transfer at the end of this month. As the current Neocron servers have to be merged into the Neocron Classic server, there is unfortunately no way around this. The monthly fees for Neocron Classic remain at the level of the current Neocron fees.
I am certain these statements create at least as many question as they answer. But we will all have to live with that. The next update on the situation will come after the Games Convention.
Well, this sounds a lot better than just the quickbelt.
Now, as for losing my reveler and all my epic chips, that still sucks.
I've also heard ingame rumours of there being a skill release too. i'll have to check into that.
I guess i'll just wait a week or so before i do the transfer as i've seen a lot of problems with database transfers in my life :-)
Let's see, things to do:
Gather my best rares in quickbelt.
Wear my best armor
TRANSFER
Go out hunting to get recycle tool.
Go out hunting to get cash.
Do the epics for reveler, pp and moveon, along with some new epics.
Find clannies to get a new bp database and start building rhino's to hunt with.
Kill people with rhino.
Ok, all checks done. I'm ready :-)
Some issues tho, when you say that the international 1 slot server will be
started up when/if server load allows it, that pretty much means if we would
have to wait and not play doy if we want to play there with our old
characters. That might be disheartening to some.
What I wonder most about is this tho; When I speak to old neocron players,
and I know a shitload both RL friends and guilds which Im still member of but
dont play NC atm, alot of them are intersted in trying BDOY, however all that
are interested, _ALL_, wants to play on a fresh server. I would suspect that
the same goes for most new players, and I have also talked to alot of people
ingame and many seem to be really hyped about playing on a fresh server to
experience the noob clanwars and whatnot again, I think that I would
personally prefer to start over fresh as well even tho I have 3 chars and all
the equipment I would ever need. Are there any plans for making a server
which there will be no means to transfer characters to?
Good to see an update on the wipe issue, thanks for the info.
Spikadelia
17-08-04, 10:34
Thanks for the continued flow of information.
Yeah you guys get in the neck in a way that astonishes me at times, good to see you're responding to the community intelligently which is more than can be said for a lot of the attitude that flows in the opposite direction.
So do MOVE ONs and PP Resistor chips get deleted as epics or remain if implanted? ;)
i know its going to sound strange but for all the epics that get destroyed could u work it into the story line and give us some item that represents it
i.e.
Wrecked Moveon, description = When DoY attacked with the EMP missiles it blew out all the specialy coded implants *blah blah blah*
MeWhiteWolf
17-08-04, 10:41
THANKYOU :)
item wipe info is VERY good.
i have 2 questions left:
I cannot take my vehicle, but can i take a BP and the parts?
and
Will u be able to retransfer chars to a different BDoy Server (for the plutonians)
p.s. lol @ u guys who were going to stay in NC Classic to keep ur stuff
Ch1n Th3 M4g
17-08-04, 10:41
happy about the imps and armour
sad about my pp and moveon
....
......
spose its off 2 pro city first then 8|
Thank you for the information. It's very much appreciated.
So do MOVE ONs and PP Resistor chips get deleted as epics or remain if implanted?
Good point :)
So even if a player wants to do the upgrade to NC2 sometime after the release, his character data will represent the status of the appointed date. The date of january, 2005 the first is abandonned ?
Ch1n Th3 M4g
17-08-04, 10:46
i dont wana be a bitch or a whiner
but we did though epics and some(BT) are hard and long :lol:
i think if ur char has a 'master' in the pp or bt epic then u should be able 2 keep em
seeing as it takes time and effort
plus
my pc spy would only have 2 chips on him :(
Richard Slade
17-08-04, 10:54
First of all we'll get new epics so don't think it's only move on and pp when we come home
second, ALL epics are to be wied, that must include implanted ones too (yes it does)
No.5 Reads like Nc classic and Nc2 are gonna get item wipes @ a set date before its merged into one big Db?
Will there be any point in having a Nc Classic server????? ahh Nc Classic will only run as long as everyones last payment lasts lol
MeWhiteWolf
17-08-04, 10:57
perhaps you could email the NC account's email addy and allow all (even the inactive) accounts to log in the day b4 "Backup Day" so we can all help ourselves - i was inactive at the time the LE rules were changed and am now stuck with a tradeskiller with no le and bugger all ability to defend...
Thanks!
I'm curious. When you say ALL implants will be carried across, does that include PP Biotech epic chips? Or do we loose them as part of the - ALL epic items will be deleted?
*see's the community unwrap its outstrectched fingers from kk's neck* thnx holgarth
grrr i gotta get my chars poked back up oO
Ch1n Th3 M4g
17-08-04, 11:06
DAMMIT :mad: :mad: :mad:
i well
more head space i spose
rather have pp/moveon
but wot u going 2 do :cool:
Listening to gavotte.mp3 at http://www.nathrath.com under the passion for cello... this is so sweet news :D
I like it :D
And as Ryuben said, would be great if the epic-wipe would have some kind of story behind it.
Thanks for update.
What I (and few more) would like to see is:
-The 1 slot International server straight from beginning of retail.
I do not see any other option. Because even if we could transfer characters from one server to another in NC2 (which i doubt very much), there would still be a problem. Let me explain...
I activate one account now, and level up 4 characters on International (4slot)
After xx months comes new International (1 slot) server.
I will have to transfer only one from the 4 characters I have leveled up. (this is most likely, since we cannot mix characters from different accounts even now.)
conclusion = I will loose the 3 characters. Also as I stated, the transfer between NC2 servers will surely be not supported, so ... I have to make a completely new character in International (1 slot) server. :wtf:
edit: I know that on transfer 2 accounts can not be mixed, but ...
Is it possible to mix from account X,
server 1, chracter a,b,c
and server 2 character d
into NC2 (4 slot) server Y ?
that sucks, high level people will have to much stuff and will be too overwhelming to noobs
What I wonder most about is this tho...alot of them are intersted in trying BDOY, however all that are interested, _ALL_, wants to play on a fresh server. I would suspect that the same goes for most new players, and I have also talked to alot of people ingame and many seem to be really hyped about playing on a fresh server to experience the noob clanwars and whatnot again, I think that I would personally prefer to start over fresh as well even tho I have 3 chars and all the equipment I would ever need. Are there any plans for making a server which there will be no means to transfer characters to?Agreed. I think that every NEW game should have at least one NEW server.
again am in two minds,
on one hand, the capped chars, fully equipped people will be fine, but as for the new people... they are gonna find it pretty difficult, the old guys will be out hunting, learning about the new features and stuff, and all the new blood ( :lol: ) will find it difficult to find any tradeskillers, stuff, and no vets will have any hand me down weapons to give out.
There are still going to be unhappy runners but thanks for the update.
We all agree its not an ideal situation we'll have to go through, but changes have to happen for the game to progress. Would you rather they didn't release NC2?
Thanks for the update. Even tho it wont stop all the whines!
Yeah it sucks that we spent time doing the epics and we gunna loose them, but we can do em again,(how many people say they r bored with nowt to do?!) Running round doing the epics will help u explore again.
I am so glad u r going to let us keep our implanted imps, and the armour is a massive bonus THANKS KK ;)
Richard Slade
17-08-04, 11:55
Here's a story about the epics for ya:
[add intro about how epics came] [add bridge about Nid being without cuz he's a mod]
So Nid got more and more angry as NC2 came closer and closer that he had been around for so long and never got to do an epic and as all chars were moved into the database he saw his chance. And he brought his hammer.
Slamming hammering and bashing away he crushed every little bit of epic trash there was... And he felt happy.
[Add romance with [Insert reature of choice] and Nid] [Add ending involving droms, Nid, Götter and an assload of "FREd the server hamster"]
There u have it.
Freeejumper
17-08-04, 11:58
so the pluto community has to wait for an 1 slot internationserver which will goup sometime maybe ... while the others are already able to play nc2 :( now i dont wanna transfer my chars to a 4 slot int. server cuz i know sometime a 1 slot int. server will come.
Richard Slade
17-08-04, 12:00
so the pluto community has to wait for an 1 slot internationserver which will goup sometime maybe ... while the others are already able to play nc2 :( now i dont wanna transfer my chars to a 4 slot int. server cuz i know sometime a 1 slot int. server will come.
Whatw if you can transfer from the 4 slot to the 1 slot then?
Freeejumper
17-08-04, 12:00
Is it possible to mix from account X,
server 1, chracter a,b,c
and server 2 character d
into NC2 (4 slot) server Y ?
yes it is :angel:
Thanx for letting us keep our imps and armour!! :)
Shame i will loose my 3 moveons, 3 proto resistors, 2 speed gats and my reveler but letting us keep the other stuff more than makes up for it
Thanks for the update. :)
but please stop listening to the whiners now.
[TgR]KILLER
17-08-04, 12:14
well this new info meens a few things.. for one i'll be cityside with 1 of my chars for sure to do the proto and biotech run.. damn even need 2 moveons gues 2 chars will have to start cityside lol.
also meens i gonna play on the 4 slot server for sure my setup just totaly aint working without ppr but without moveon its even more crap..
gg on taking armor and implants.. tho armor couldn't meen less to me.. but sucks for deleting all epic status.. i see loads of people who almost dit all epics available and they all gonna get screwed.. i gotta do at least 4 epics lol..
GambitFlame
17-08-04, 12:29
WINNAR!!
Love this news, maybe not the epics but its a small sacrifice :)
Now gotta replace the chips and epics in my qb with more uber stuff :D
Clownst0pper
17-08-04, 12:37
Works for me :)
[TgR]KILLER
17-08-04, 12:49
lol with this thing i know my QB setup.. pvp PE second all arti phos PE exp termi my phos termi and my 4 slot all arti uranium PE. :p
so thats 5 weapons.. hmm gues i'll take my 5 slot heal.. my s/d so thats 8 got 2 slots left then.. ow my 4 slot dmg boost.. and i'll replace the boost spells in NC2 then :p
its great news except..
It is now harder to change factions.. thats PP and Biotech, so in the first few weeks everyone and their mother will be in these factions?
[TgR]KILLER
17-08-04, 12:58
its great news except..
It is now harder to change factions.. thats PP and Biotech, so in the first few weeks everyone and their mother will be in these factions?
don't know.. think so.. i do know i'm getting my poker to get his bio symp up.. and my rerolled to my spy i was gonna make and get him to start as pp :p
pretty much all pvp setups nowadays use moveon and/or ppr.. i even need a moveon to use my boots :(
lol! Got to love Narthath's homepage and that "Gavotte.mp3" :D I mean, its very well played :angel:
Goddammit !!!
The math is still WRONG!!!
On one of my accounts I have 9 characters.
I am assuming the one international server is 4 slot.
Thats it, only four characters available for english speakers.
So, WTF happens to my other 5 characters ?
Are they deleted ?
Are they held in suspended animation until more english speaking slots become available ? Can we just move one & leave the rest on 'hold' until we see how the international situation pans out ?
Or do you have to place all your characters the first time you log in ?
& now anyone on holidays or just taking a Neocron break might lose everthing if they miss the item transfer cutoff date, also not all players read the forum, your gonna have to announce the date a bit better than here.
Im not been negative, these are issues, real ones, but i still feel like your making it up as you go along, & thats causing me some concern. :confused:
[TgR]KILLER
17-08-04, 13:07
drex.. read the post.. damnit your just flaming and not reading shit.. all you chars will be put in 1 database.. they will stay there till jan 05 i thought thana said ( its somewere in another thread ) till jan 05 you can move chars over to NC2 servers.. so you can play 4 chars now and wait if there will be a new server to put the others on..
what you want kk to do is put up 3 servers again.. like they are now.. and you'll get 3 servers again with 100 people on them.. i rather have a server were actualy player count reaches above 400 :rolleyes:
Dribble Joy
17-08-04, 13:12
Gonna be a pain getting my ppr and moveon but... nm.
I would like there to be something said about the other servers.
Otherwise, good stuff.
I know what faction I am gonna start in. I want my Reveler :D
...
So, WTF happens to my other 5 characters ?
Are they deleted ?
No, according to point 5 of the planfile.
Are they held in suspended animation until more english speaking slots become available ?
Yes, according to point 5 of the planfile.
Can we just move one & leave the rest on 'hold' until we see how the international situation pans out ?
Yes, according to point 5 of the planfile.
Or do you have to place all your characters the first time you log in ?
No, according to point 5 of the planfile.
& now anyone on holidays or just taking a Neocron break might lose everthing if they miss the item transfer cutoff date, also not all players read the forum, your gonna have to announce the date a bit better than here.
Proper announcement on the neocron homepage and on the game login page would be a solution for this.
Proper announcement on the neocron homepage and on the game login page would be a solution for this.
a mass mailing would be much better i think :)
Good responce to most of the issues the forum blew up over, I'm chuffed that armour and imps will go with the quickbelt too.
One thing I'd like to confirm.
I have 4 runners on Saturn, 1 on uranus and 1 on Pluto.
The way you say it will work is they will all end up on a storage database.
So could I move my 3 favourite Saturnites and my Uranus runner to the planned 4 runner international and leave my Pluto runner in storage till a 1 runner international server gets created?
If you say yes then alot of people will be able to play immediately but be happy that when other servers come online they will have space for their extra characters.
Thks for the update KK.
Regarding Epics items, that sucks a bit :( many people have setup based around specific implants :( why erase those imps ? and not transfer them. Same for the DRE + NEXT epic, if you can't transfer the item itself, just give a new key to the runner when he spawns in NC2 ?
Imps + armors + belt is a good news ! Thks for listening, you helped my PPU a lot into transfering to NC2 with that move :)
Vampire222
17-08-04, 13:36
I really hope i can take epic imps that are in my head and epic items (not keys) in my qb
Nice sneaky plan to remove epic chips :lol: :lol:
Let me guess this is to insure there are actully some people playing as pro city yeah guess my PE will have to move pro city for the pp chip and moveon
Richard Slade
17-08-04, 13:38
I really hope i can take epic imps that are in my head and epic items (not keys) in my qb
N-O
All epics are deleted,
start reading
Let me guess this is to insure there are actully some people playing as pro city yeah guess my PE will have to move pro city for the pp chip and moveon
What are you on about. Plenty of people will go Pro-City, else there wont even been anyone to fight against without taking uber SL hits probably. I'm going to stay Pro-City anyway.
At the end of the day, loosing Epic chips wouldnt be a terrible thing, at least it would give people something to do again.
right.....
I got one big question - why the **** were we not told about this before?
surely you must have known?
On my spy I knew 8 items I would take, and have 2 slots, so therefore I decided to do my BT epic last night, then got my PP symp up to do the PP epic. Just started it and was told not to bother.
All I can say is that its looking like EVERYONE is going to be shifting to PP and BT at the end of Sept.... Aside from me - last straw???
What are you on about. Plenty of people will go Pro-City, else there wont even been anyone to fight against without taking uber SL hits probably. I'm going to stay Pro-City anyway.
At the end of the day, loosing Epic chips wouldnt be a terrible thing, at least it would give people something to do again.
oh but it will be bad I'm gonna be so dead if seen running through plaza 1 matey while trying to complete BT and PP epic
so what is happening with epics then? are they going to be the same then?
also - my brother did his BT epic last night as he had a spare slot on belt.
Say you were part exchanging a car, and the company supplying the new car suddenly decided that it wasn't going to have the aircon???
Exactly - you would tell them where to stick it.
Richard Slade
17-08-04, 13:50
so what is happening with epics then? are they going to be the same then?
also - my brother did his BT epic last night as he had a spare slot on belt.
Say you were part exchanging a car, and the company supplying the new car suddenly decided that it wasn't going to have the aircon???
Exactly - you would tell them where to stick it.
And what happens when they realize, damn half of these cars ain't gonna work, should they recall all or track every damn non-working car down?
Yep, that's right.
KK I don't understand now why can't we keep our epic chips?
How are we gonna be able to switch from pro-city to anti-city with out getting nuked by DOY soldiers and other players once we complete the epics huh? :wtf:
I think this is very good news :)
And I agree completely with Rade, I would love starting on a completely fresh server. But I guess that's not going to happen..
Kudos for braving the ravaging bloodthirsty lot that make up this forum.
/me goes and gets PP and Bio symp up in preparation.
Killer, you'll need you 5 slot defl and shelter!
so what is happening with epics then? are they going to be the same then?
also - my brother did his BT epic last night as he had a spare slot on belt.
Say you were part exchanging a car, and the company supplying the new car suddenly decided that it wasn't going to have the aircon???
Exactly - you would tell them where to stick it.
MMORPGs arent cars, there are plenty of books that will give you a clue on
the issue.
Well, the thing is you make an epic whore in each account then.
So the epic whore can do your pro city epics for you and then delete it for something fun.
im happy :)
more slots to move more crap :)
if the epic items are going away, is there any way you can reset the faction sympathies to say.. 10?
being in the game as long as i have, i have changed factions quite a bit for the rewards. Needless to say, some of my sympathies, hell ok, all but my current sympathies are -99.
Thats what happens when you change factions a lot and do a lot of fighting. its a killer on your enemy faction symp, but its helluva good time. I hope you all consider this.
I cant complain now. This is a really good compromise. thanks
Good News :)
Although i have loads of QB slots now as i have no actual items, lol win :p
I also hope that your increasing presence over the last few days, Holger is kept up as its nice to get info from the dude at the top regularly :)
------------
EDIT/ Yes i agree with WebShock some people have really bad sympathies with the important epic run factions as they thought they werent gonna be needing to go there and as KK are creating a need to go there for somthing they have already done i believe faction sympathies should be set to those of a new character. (10 for allied, 0 for Neutral, Minus a few for Hostile which would go back up reasonably quick) in my eyes this would also work as a nice compensation for losing the epic items even though you you dont have to give it, it would settle more of the community.
But still nice update to the planfile :)
How will the database handle characters with the same name on different servers ?
Also, I guess there is no use in getting pp/bt symp now as they will prolly be reset when you choose your faction in nc2 ?
All i can say to those HC Tanks..
Ouch, you lose your PP,Moveon and Speed gatt :wtf: kinda harsh dont ya think..
*pats MC tank on the head*
eh well, on the bright side gives them something to do :p
How will the database handle characters with the same name on different servers ?
Also, I guess there is no use in getting pp/bt symp now as they will prolly be reset when you choose your faction in nc2 ?
the names are being whiped and you re-enter a name come NC2
All i can say to those HC Tanks..
Ouch, you lose your PP,Moveon and Speed gatt :wtf: kinda harsh dont ya think..
*pats MC tank on the head*
eh well, on the bright side gives them something to do :p
the names are being whiped and you re-enter a name come NC2
Hehe i enjoy doing epic runs anywhom gives me a chance to see if i can beat my record for completing the CM one :p
How are we gonna be able to switch from pro-city to anti-city with out getting nuked by DOY soldiers and other players once we complete the epics huh? :wtf:
Ever think that you were not supposed to switch between pro and anti-city so easy? There are some new items into the pool now with the new anti-city epics finally coming into play
I'm only going to play on a 1-2 slot server. Does that mean I cant play doy until the english one is up? :confused:
[TgR]KILLER
17-08-04, 14:31
im happy :)
more slots to move more crap :)
if the epic items are going away, is there any way you can reset the faction sympathies to say.. 10?
being in the game as long as i have, i have changed factions quite a bit for the rewards. Needless to say, some of my sympathies, hell ok, all but my current sympathies are -99.
uhm get them up yourself.. i pretty much had the same but over time it will go up. you want to live a criminal you pay for it.. i got several chars with 100 FS and alot of 50+ FS for other factions.. and fuck no i won't get all my FS trown back to 10 because you killed to much people.
Thanks KK
I liked the info..
ok couple of things regarding the epics, ok i can accept the wipe.
however, will they still be open for all to collect, like as normally im crahn, can i still use CM/TT/PP/BT on my tank? or can i only use the faction i am in.
now presuming that you can use all, whats the procedure for changeing from pro to anti and back again.
enigma_b17
17-08-04, 14:43
uh, so i get no resistor/moveon no speedgat on my tank, no laser rifle/pistol cannon on my spies, no reveler, nothing, all these get wiped?......
[edit] which means along with the money wipe, more time and effort to get them again? no thx
although im appreciative that there was an update, its just a sacrifice that i cant afford.
uh, so i get no resistor/moveon no speedgat on my tank, no laser rifle/pistol cannon on my spies, all these get wiped?......
yep all epic stuff will be wiped.
uh, so i get no resistor/moveon no speedgat on my tank, no laser rifle/pistol cannon on my spies, all these get wiped?......
All i can say to those HC Tanks..
Ouch, you lose your PP,Moveon and Speed gatt :wtf: kinda harsh dont ya think..
*pats MC tank on the head*
can noone read or? :rolleyes:
greendonkeyuk
17-08-04, 14:48
so ported chars get fac symps reset? they get to choose a new faction come doy? im tryin to make sense of all of this, i understand i need a whole new set of moveons and pprs but the rest of it is still a boggle.
The Ottoman
17-08-04, 14:50
I wouldn't mind if only pro-city runners can use pro-city epic items en anti-city only theirs. You can't have the best of all worlds.
Good info, and its good to hear that KK are listening to us. Seriously, posts like that can really help the community feel they are part of this game, not just a form of revenue. I'd also like to know about the epic items in DoY world, but I guess we'll know more as beta opens up. I actually wish that, like the CA epic, all items are only usable by their faction only, it adds a sense of identity, plus l'm guessing the new epic items might be more useful than PP or Moveon anyways.
Regarding the server, I know many of you want your 1 slot international server but I'd really like to see all of us on the one server. We're playing a mmorpg game here and to seem like an active world we should really be looking at 1000 players per server, especially when you consider that there are now two full cities. Will be good to have all the community members I've read over the years all together in one melting pot!
Oh, and if I can get anywhere near the beta, and near to the people that make decisions about combat balance in the new game, I'd reallly like the importance of rare items reduced so that people (read:new players) can compete realistically in combat from a much lower level. For me rares should only be for bragging rights and getting that 2% better damage, not an obligatory need for combat (read:3-slot Cursed Soul minimum). But thats for another thread ;)
Have fun at the Game Show KK, don't go chasing those show babes, they're too expensive.
Make it where if you have a procity faction imp or weapon you get nuked for being a traitor if you're anti-city :p
Wonder if and how the epics will be changed. I think it would be lame if you'd have to kill your city allies in Neocron 2 since it's gonna be sorta red vs blue.
[TgR]KILLER
17-08-04, 14:57
ow one question for kk to note to awnser after their GC..
i gues/hope this will be a yes.. but uhm..
you can move chars from different servers to one right ? cause nobody said you could.. and without anything said everything is unsure :p but i want to move my pluto char +3 others to the 4 slot int server ;)
The Ottoman
17-08-04, 14:59
Good info, and its good to hear that KK are listening to us. Seriously, posts like that can really help the community feel they are part of this game, not just a form of revenue. I'd also like to know about the epic items in DoY world, but I guess we'll know more as beta opens up. I actually wish that, like the CA epic, all items are only usable by their faction only, it adds a sense of identity, plus l'm guessing the new epic items might be more useful than PP or Moveon anyways.
Regarding the server, I know many of you want your 1 slot international server but I'd really like to see all of us on the one server. We're playing a mmorpg game here and to seem like an active world we should really be looking at 1000 players per server, especially when you consider that there are now two full cities. Will be good to have all the community members I've read over the years all together in one melting pot!
Oh, and if I can get anywhere near the beta, and near to the people that make decisions about combat balance in the new game, I'd reallly like the importance of rare items reduced so that people (read:new players) can compete realistically in combat from a much lower level. For me rares should only be for bragging rights and getting that 2% better damage, not an obligatory need for combat (read:3-slot Cursed Soul minimum). But thats for another thread ;)
Have fun at the Game Show KK, don't go chasing those show babes, they're too expensive.
I fully agree with your entire post.
bull shit absolutly bullshit
not only do i loose most items 2 an item wipe which i then started 2 like
i loose all my bloody epic times that i put in my belt like move on. now yr tellin me i have 2 change 2 a doifferent faction from anti city 2 pro city? u think thats gonna be easy now. then i have 2 do the biotech epic 6 times and the proto epic 4 times....yr bloody shitting me u just want pple 2 leave.
fuk this
Has there been any word on whether faction symp is going to be reset with NC2, or do we carry across our current values?
Dont Mess - dont be a idiot. Why in the world would they want people to leave fool - more people = more money
It would be cool to get a word on the SoulLight as well.
Will that be transfered as is, or will it be reset.
I basicly cant play nc2 for a while until they want to open a new server. Then finally when I can play I need to pay for two fucking accounts at 15 bucks a month to do two epics pro-city. We all know how fun doing the rez-the-person-in-the-desert epic is. :mad: kk should remove the diamond and next epics now and allow everyone to keep the rest :mad: :mad: :mad:
I basicly cant play nc2 for a while until they want to open a new server. Then finally when I can play I need to pay for two fucking accounts at 15 bucks a month to do two epics pro-city. We all know how fun doing the rez-the-person-in-the-desert epic is. :mad: kk should remove the diamond and next epics now and allow everyone to keep the rest :mad: :mad: :mad:
if the epic is still the same in Neocron 2 .. I think it might be a bit different in that you might just pay a spy to "fly" you there and drop you off ;)
Two steps forward and two steps back IMO.
You're wiping our cash and then making us run all the ERs again at an average cost per run of 200k (more if you change factions with research/recycle missions).
You let more items through but then delete some of the best and most combat-critical ones.
Dont' get me wrong I can see you are trying to make an effort and I'm sure the Epics thing was always intended but not communicted ( :rolleyes: ) but it once again highlights may of the problems within KK to me.
Let people take their gogus as well and it'd at least be an overall gain of one step forward ;).
No doubt the ass-hats are happy now though knowing which genreps to camp when everyone rushes off to do the PP and BT Epics.:rolleyes:
haha :\ i will loose like 10 pps and moveons each o0
anyways ill just transfer one account to the 4char server and keep 1-2 accounts in the datebase for the single char server...
thats possible? or when will they delete those? 3 months?
:lol:
this is funny! I've just completed my second BT epic :D then i said hurray i'm ready for DoY and logged off, go into the forum and read this...
bye bye 2 moveons 1 ppr chip 1 speed gat... :lol:
People are gonna be pissed as hell :D
oh well, i guess i can do them again... and again... and again... Bwahahahahaaha :D
2 sayings spring to mind
cant do right for doing wrong
cant please all of the people all of the time.
im guessing that as we get the epic master status reset then all FS/SL etc will be reset too?
1. We consider you, the Neocron community, as something very special. Very few MMORPGs have such a strong and active community. We from the KK team would like to things remain that way and that will always be our goal.No offense holger, and this probably cant be blamed at you, but KK has atrocious communication.
2. The constant allegations that we would purposely lie to you are upsetting the whole team. We are not lying to you. On one hand, we are expected to release all information as soon as possible, while on the other hand we are being bashed each time something doesn’t go as planned. We are trying to follow a coherent strategy, but from time to time things just don’t work out as planned. We simply can’t make everyone happy all the time.Holger, explain why, in 2 years, almost no deadline has ever been met, and when not met, given decent warning that itwill not be met?
How many times have we seen MJS post the same day as something was meant to happen, to give a - frankly, insultingly bad excuse for the delay?
3. The Games Convention is one of the three most important industry fairs in the world and is the largest one in Europe. We are currently involved in accordingly intensive preparations to be able to optimally position our company and product. The whole team is working late into the night. This is the reason for the currently perceived slow flow of information and definitely not a sign of lack of interest on our part.Fair enough, but couldnt someone have said so earlier?
1. The release date for Neocron 2 is definitely end of September! Any other speculations are without foundation.You said that Q1 2003, again Q3 2003, again Q1 2004, again april 2004, again June 2004, and MJS swore sept 1 2004 would be met.
2. We are trying to meet your wishes as far as possible. In addition to the items in the quickbelt, all the items in the implant and armor windows will be transferred too. That way, the number of transferable items will be increased considerably.A step forward, not enough imo.
3. All items gained from epic runs will be deleted and the status of all epics will be reset, so everyone will be able to play the runs again. That way everyone is treated the same way, as the keys for the Reveler Chaincraft and the warehouse can not be transferred for technical reasons.Pain in the ass, but if its so, its so.
Could you at least make changing factions free for the first month of retail?
4. We will use the server configuration mentioned in the plan file for the release of Neocron 2, but we know we might have to set up additional servers fairly quickly depending on the load on the initial servers. As there are a lot of complaints about the lack of a one slot international server, especially in the English community, we put that server on top of our list and will add it as soon as the load on the other servers allows it.Doesnt make much sense.
5. Concerning the character transfer: All characters will be transferred into a big database at an appointed date. During this transfer, all the possession of the characters will be removed, except for the items in the quickbelt, the worn armor and implants. Players will be able to either move these characters to the Neocron Classic server or upgrade them to Neocron 2. While the characters transferred to NC Classic remain in this database, characters upgraded to NC2 will be deleted from this database to prevent them from being loaded from that backup again. All other characters remain in the database and can be upgraded at a later time. So even if a player wants to do the upgrade to NC2 sometime after the release, his character data will represent the status of the appointed date. This is also the case if the character has been played on the Neocron Classic server in the meantime. We will announce the date for this transfer at the end of this month. As the current Neocron servers have to be merged into the Neocron Classic server, there is unfortunately no way around this. The monthly fees for Neocron Classic remain at the level of the current Neocron fees.Can you at least provide like a week free at the end of retail so people not wanting to reactivate before NC2 can log on, and arrange their implants and QB?
The Ottoman
17-08-04, 15:20
Hmmm, I better put some extra Minion Snake teeth in my quickbelt. Ancient Yucida Village is awfully close to the gates of Doy. :D
I wonder if my constructor can take along some bp's and his tradeskil tools in his belt?
Or is it just weapons?
enigma_b17
17-08-04, 15:29
Two steps forward and two steps back IMO.
You're wiping our cash and then making us run all the ERs again at an average cost per run of 200k (more if you change factions with research/recycle missions).
You let more items through but then delete some of the best and most combat-critical ones.
Dont' get me wrong I can see you are trying to make an effort and I'm sure the Epics thing was always intended but not communicted ( :rolleyes: ) but it once again highlights may of the problems within KK to me.
Let people take their gogus as well and it'd at least be an overall gain of one step forward ;).
No doubt the ass-hats are happy now though knowing which genreps to camp when everyone rushes off to do the PP and BT Epics.:rolleyes:
i agree completely again jernau, its just another kick in the teeth which put the last nail in the coffin of my NC accounts. I dont mean to give out to kk i can see your tryin but its just not something I can stand for, not that it will matter to ya with one person cancelling their accounts :p
The Ottoman
17-08-04, 15:32
I wonder if my constructor can take along some bp's and his tradeskil tools in his belt?
Or is it just weapons?
I think(i hope) it's items in general.
Somewhere it said items, I think on the german thread about the first planfile. I havent seen weapons only mentioned yet.
Ok, so that'll be a constructor with bp of rhino, his tools and some parts to build it
A researcher with bp's of all vehicles and his tools, my rhino tank to gun it and i'm back in business :-)
Thanks for the update. Good stuff.
bull shit absolutly bullshit
not only do i loose most items 2 an item wipe which i then started 2 like
i loose all my bloody epic times that i put in my belt like move on. now yr tellin me i have 2 change 2 a doifferent faction from anti city 2 pro city? u think thats gonna be easy now. then i have 2 do the biotech epic 6 times and the proto epic 4 times....yr bloody shitting me u just want pple 2 leave.
fuk this
thats the way it is tho i mean we dont have money as it is 2 change factions THEN our faction symps are gonna be messed if they wanna make it even then are the gonna reset the faction symps to 10 bar yr own faction which would be like 50
Just wondering with the epics... as I see it, at least the BT and TT epics MUST change right? I mean HQs being safe zones and all...
Dirk_Gently
17-08-04, 15:47
Now that sounds like a very good update to the planfile. A very positive set of additions to what we knew.
Well done KK. ;)
And to all of the people whining about having to "redo all of the epics"..........
IT'S AN RPG YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO STAY IN YOUR FACTION NOT EPIC WHORE THE WHOLE LOT. A very good change.
As i have no use for my cash, i'm gonna get some chars epic factions to be my epic whores.
Now that sounds like a very good update to the planfile. A very positive set of additions to what we knew.
Well done KK. ;)
And to all of the people whining about having to "redo all of the epics"..........
IT'S AN RPG YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO STAY IN YOUR FACTION NOT EPIC WHORE THE WHOLE LOT. A very good change.
you were also ment to be able to do all the epics to get a title
Please reconsider on the PPR/Moveon front at least, and ideally the other epics too. Many setups absolutely depend on Moveon/PPR, they're basically essentials for a Tank, Moveon is required if you don't want a Spy to drop dead in 3 shots from anything, and they go a long way towards helping PEs and hybrids too. If all epic items are wiped, then DoY will basically be a ghost town initially. Anyone who wants to PvP is going to have to go pro-city to get those epics done. Now think of the new players who are going to join and need some help. Any that choose procity will find themselves swamped with high level players who can help them. Any that choose anticity won't find much help at all.
EDIT: Also, we know from past experience that some people just can't help themselves when someone they don't like is around, and will shoot them even in the same faction. So I can see a lot of same or allied faction killing going on in the first week - not good.
@Jernau: If I remember right the plan is for all procity to be able to do all procity epics, and same for anticity, without having to move faction.
Praetorian
17-08-04, 16:11
3. All items gained from epic runs will be deleted and the status of all epics will be reset, so everyone will be able to play the runs again. That way everyone is treated the same way, as the keys for the Reveler Chaincraft and the warehouse can not be transferred for technical reasons.
4. We will use the server configuration mentioned in the plan file for the release of Neocron 2, but we know we might have to set up additional servers fairly quickly depending on the load on the initial servers. As there are a lot of complaints about the lack of a one slot international server, especially in the English community, we put that server on top of our list and will add it as soon as the load on the other servers allows it.
3. Goodbye 5 slot speedgat, 5 slot TT epic rifle... numerous MOVEONs and Resistor chips... hello no compensation... :rolleyes: Oh well it could be worse. Acceptable, as long as KK fix their 4th point!
4. I can pretty much guarantee you the load on the single international server will require it from day 1... So why dont you just do the smart thing and set up the 4th from the start? There is NO logic in "...and will add it as soon as the load on the other servers allows it."? Uhm? Come again? :wtf:
Otherwise thank you for keeping us informed KK, thats what we need...
Oh, and the fact that you get to keep implants and armor as well as 10 slots in the QB is excellent... Very excellent :D
will pro city epics change from what they are, as atm, say for Bio you have to gank TT, however aint all pro gonna be friendly when NC2 Comes like anti are all gonna be nice.
so will this change or will it be a case of just ganking a allie insteadof enemy
All items gained from epic runs will be deleted and the status of all epics will be reset, so everyone will be able to play the runs again. That way everyone is treated the same way, as the keys for the Reveler Chaincraft and the warehouse can not be transferred for technical reasons.
Well... I really don't mind doing some epics again.. but the question is here whether the people that have the chaincraft and warehouse would actually feel screwed?
The proposed solution is of course the most fair one.
But maybe we should ask the ones that would have their chaincrafts and warehouses removed, if they maybe think it's worth to sacrifice those two items for the sake of having the PP, moveon etc transferred?
I feel like it's starting to get out of hand however. Will the requests for more items actually stop after the epic items are transferred as well?
Honestly, Holger you are doing an awesome job so far I really hope this keeps up. :)
DigestiveBiscui
17-08-04, 16:40
thats turd tbh
no game is worth that :mad: have to do shit load of epics over and over again just to get it back
fucking hell KK - cant u do it the simple way? If the imp is in your head - u can keep it, therefore MOVE ON and PP are KEPT
dont know if this has been asked, didnt bother reading it. You said in due time after nc2 will be released then you will set up a 1 slot server. Do we have the option at least to transfer one of our chracters to that server or not?
Other than that KK, good improvement on maintaing a relationship with the playerbase albiet a small improvement.
Thanks for the news Holger. Definitely appreciate it. Thank you a lot for letting us keep our armor and implants, but I have to add, deleting epic items is a baaaaad idea. I need those chips for my setup, without them there is no way I my setup is viable. And I was REALLY hoping to start Black Dragon in DoY and instantly get into the action. Now I will have to change my faction to ProtoPharma in Neocron 1 to start Neocron 2 with. (Along with 95% of the people in this game). DoY will be deserted with every one trying to complete their epic. And yes the city will be in chaos from the known anti-city people like myself being in Neocron. It will be hell.
I'm for tranferring armor and implants because it saves me some trouble with Neocron 2. But my reasons for saying dont delete the epic items is 100% unselfish, its simply a really really really bad idea and I urge you to reconsider.
That's very nice news, but:
KK I don't understand now why can't we keep our epic chips?
How are we gonna be able to switch from pro-city to anti-city with out getting nuked by DOY soldiers and other players once we complete the epics huh? :wtf:
is a very good question.
DigestiveBiscui
17-08-04, 17:03
deleting epic items is a baaaaad idea.
bing bing bing
my accounts are already going
i cant be fucked to do epics over and over just because of KK's own stuipdity
i've watched people say over these 2 years that KK are fakes, liers, bastards and whatnot - and i never believed them, but when u think that once a FREE Add-on is now one u have to pay for - with a whipe of epics - and an increase in monthly fee's, i begin to see why they call KK what they do
...and the fucking carousel is on again.
They stated they wipe it because it is fair in regards to the next and dre epics.
Why are they stupid or enter-favourite-insult-word-here because they thought this was fair?
Can certain people give an argument without resorting to bashing and or/insulting?
Is it possible here or what?
You know what KK... Wipe it all. That way we filter the player base in a clean and Darwin optimal manner. Problem solved.
DigestiveBiscui
17-08-04, 17:10
You know what KK... Wipe it all. That way we filter the player base in a clean and Darwin optimal manner. Problem solved.
yes, i was happy with the first item wipe
thing i think your brain can't take is the fact that - after 2 years, i have to do 8 epics again
i couldnt give a fucking SHIT about a reavler or DRE app - fuck them, i got them but i dont care
what i care about are the 2 chips in my chars that make them unuseable until i get them again - which is a mock
Phunqe if you want to see valid arguments against a full epic item wipe, read my post. If youd like to see more Im sure I can provide them. And btw I have 2 DRE epics and 4 Next epics and in no way would I feel cheated at losing those 6, and only being able to keep my single PP chip and single MoveOn.
i've watched people say over these 2 years that KK are fakes, liers, bastards and whatnot - and i never believed them, but when u think that once a FREE Add-on is now one u have to pay for - with a whipe of epics - and an increase in monthly fee's, i begin to see why they call KK what they doWhile I agree with you that it a horrible idea to wipe epics, threatening to quit doesnt really help anything. If anything it just makes them more standoffish. They are reasonable people, valid arguments have been presented, let them have a chance to rethink the decision and if they still want to go through with wiping epic items then you can quit. :p
DigestiveBiscui
17-08-04, 17:12
Phunqe if you want to see valid arguments against a full epic item wipe, read my post. If youd like to see more Im sure I can provide them. And btw I have 2 DRE epics and 4 Next epics and in no way would I feel cheated at losing those 6, and only being able to keep my single PP chip and single MoveOn.
While I agree with you that it a horrible idea to wipe epics, threatening to quit doesnt really help anything. If anything it just makes them more standoffish. They are reasonable people, valid arguments have been presented, let them have a chance to rethink the decision and if they still want to go through with wiping epic items then you can quit. :p
jest - i've been here for 2 years, i dont *threaten* to quit, if i say i'm quitting i quit :)
jest - i've been here for 2 years, i dont *threaten* to quit, if i say i'm quitting i quit :)Thats what they all say. :p
Phunqe if you want to see valid arguments against a full epic item wipe, read my post. If youd like to see more Im sure I can provide them.
I thought my post was clear enough to as which persons I was actually reffering to.
I'll edit it for the sake of all well being in the world.
I thought my post was clear enough to as which persons I was actually reffering to.
I'll edit it for the sake of it.Ah my bad reread it, guess you were talking about the way people were arguing it, not the reasons. MY bad. :p
Seriously though wiping epics is like the worst decision possible lol. If they wiped everything else they should at least have let us keep our epics haha.
I'm sorry Jest... My blood pressure is somewhat agitated at this point :/
I'm sorry Jest... My blood pressure is somewhat agitated at this point :/ :(
Lol I was gonna send a PM to Holger about some stuff but hes disabled them. Gah. Hes a smart one he is. :p
MMORPGs arent cars, there are plenty of books that will give you a clue on
the issue.
i didn't mean it litterally FFS - i mean the concept of you buying something, i.e. DOY / NC2 and them changing the description / specification once you have already got ready to change over.
Dribble Joy
17-08-04, 17:20
An epic wipe would be ok if everyone only had one char, but then there are people with 10 chars on three accounts.
I dunno, I only need my moveon and ppr and then do my CM epic, and I will probably buy the chips like I did the ones I have atm.
That epic run thing is shit. I did the damn BT epic 8 times and the PP one 6 times. Not to mention i did all other epics at least once.
Just to lose my items now? Shit.
/edit
And i have to change factions on all my characters at least twice. What about my faction sympathy? I got -99 with most factions on most of my characters, will this get fixed? Or am i fucked now?
I got 4 characters that cant do shit without a moveon. Not funny.
I would rather transfer 10 items but keep my PP & Moveon then transfer
30 and loose those 2... but i guess it's just me :p
MeWhiteWolf
17-08-04, 17:33
EVERYONE LOSES THEIR EPIC REWARDS
that is a fair loss.
oooh but (insert imp) is required by most setups.
hmm yes BUT everyone lost it not just u, so U are not unbalanced.
everyone lost the bonuses, wow so now ur susceptible to a certain attack and ur worried that someone will take advantage, hmm so follow suit.
you now know what will be lost so modify ur setups and move on without it.
until you have regained it on the other side. along with all the people u kill when their back is turned....
Shadow Dancer
17-08-04, 17:35
Great stuff.
Make it a 2 slot international server though, :p.
First of all I don't think ppl will care if the epic apartment and car will get wiped, or indeed even the epic guns - as long as they can keep their chips. I suggest KK wipe everything that is not implanted, worn as armour or in the QB + the epic car and storage since they can't be moved. That way ppl get the options to keep whatever else they want. As long as KK are perfectly clear about what CANNOT be transferred due to technical reasons.
Quotes:
"In addition to the items in the quick belt, all the items in the implant and armour windows will be transferred too."
Conclusion: That means all kind of items in quick belt will be transferred, not just weapons.
"All items gained from epic runs will be deleted and the status of all epics will be reset [...]That way everyone is treated the same way, as the keys for the Reveler Chain craft and the warehouse can not be transferred for technical reasons."
Conclusion: All epic chips will be deleted including implanted ones.
Apartments and vehicle keys will also be wiped even if in the QB.
Anyone disagreeing?
" As there are a lot of complaints about the lack of a one slot international server, especially in the English community, we put that server on top of our list and will add it as soon as the load on the other servers allows it."
I take it they want there to be some ppl on the existing servers before starting new ones – fair enough ...
There are still a few fuzzy things though
According to mr. Nathrath's wording you would be free to mix all of your chars from all of your accounts into any existing and upcoming servers in NC2. I am a bit sceptic that this is actually true, as the amount of administration would be staggering.
I would like to have a little bit more info of how this is actually going to work.
1. Will I be able to mix existing Saturn, Uranus and Pluto chars from one account into a single server?
2. Will I be able to do this from different accounts?
3. Will I be able to have an account where some chars play classic NC and some play NC2?
4. Will the SL and / or sympathy scores be reset.
5. Will factions be reset or will the char keep the faction?
6. Will the characters names be reset (to avoid name collisions)?
7. Will I have to change my "world pay" accounts to pay for NC2 at all? Or when I make the transfer of one char? Or when I make the transfer of all chars?
Don't answer if you are only guessing – I want facts – not guesses.
:angel:
Okay ... i gotta admit it. It looks like KK is actually turning things around. Although they have always tried real hard, they have been pretty mediocre at most things since release and they pissed off a lot of people over time because of that. But over the last several months (significant patches), and even now (item transfer changes), they have made good progress toward listening to, and responding to, their customers. Support and communication problems are not "fixed" yet, but they *are* improving and that is good news.
As a senior management veteran of several software companies myself, i applaud their ability to weather a storm of protest, synthesize the pros and cons, and make reasonable decisions. It is extremely hard to make everyone happy, because often people have totally opposite desires - but KK is showing they are willing to accommodate player requests as best they can given their own needs and constraints. The transfer of armor and (most) implants is a good example. This doesn't mean everyone is happier of course ... people still have serious issues that they are anxious about ... but at least we have an honest-to-goodness *working* relationship between a company and its customers.
To those of you who are still pissed off about one thing or another: DON'T GIVE UP!!! Continue to push for changes - in a strong, but *mature*, manner.
To KK: Sometimes an unhappy decision is better accepted when people know the *why* behind it. For example, you will not allow Epic items (especially Epic implants) to be transferred ... perhaps if you post *why* you made that decision we might realize that you made the *right* decision even if we continue to be unhappy about it. Alternatively, once we know the Why, we might be able to help you see a means of resolving that in our favor as well.
Spook @ Pluto [who was within seconds of an uninstall yesterday but is now glad he waited]
Shadow Dancer
17-08-04, 17:46
Great stuff.
Make it a 2 slot international server though, :p. I doubt KK would though, since people are (use your word of choice :p) enough to pay for multiple accounts to play a 1 slot server.
EVERYONE LOSES THEIR EPIC REWARDS
that is a fair loss.
oooh but (insert imp) is required by most setups.
hmm yes BUT everyone lost it not just u, so U are not unbalanced.
everyone lost the bonuses, wow so now ur susceptible to a certain attack and ur worried that someone will take advantage, hmm so follow suit.
you now know what will be lost so modify ur setups and move on without it.
until you have regained it on the other side. along with all the people u kill when their back is turned....
Please think, and I mean think before you post.... My friend who plays mostly
monks will have to do 1 epic, the BT because his hybrid uses a moveon,
his PPU needs no epic imps, his APU needs no epic imps, his spy is a tradeskiller
... you guessed it, no epic imps...
I will have to do the PP and BT epic like 6 times each because all my tanks
and PEs use both of them.
@shad: as someone mentioned earlier, they should make a new server, period.
be it a 1 slot or 2 or 85, there needs to be a completly new server... i mean
NC2 is a new game, and what kind of a game launches without a new, fresh
server... it's not like it's an addon, right? it's so much more...
ok, so they say all epic items are deleted, but what happens if u have the ppr and moveon implanted..will they be gone with the transfer or still there?
ok, so they say all epic items are deleted, but what happens if u have the ppr and moveon implanted..will they be gone with the transfer or still there?
The item is deleted, no matter if it's in your head, in your inv, your QB or your
app... the item is deleted from the DB...
I am far happier with the wipe now that we get armor and implants as well.
My biggest remaining concern is whether or not we will be allowed to transfer our character from the international multi slot to a new one slot when one is out on-line. I need to know the answer to this question before I can upgrade to NC2 because I dont want to have to start again from scratch when the one slot server is finally up.
Shadow Dancer
17-08-04, 17:54
Please think, and I mean think before you post.... My friend who plays mostly
monks will have to do 1 epic, the BT because his hybrid uses a moveon,
his PPU needs no epic imps, his APU needs no epic imps, his spy is a tradeskiller
... you guessed it, no epic imps...
Crahn glove :p
@shad: as someone mentioned earlier, they should make a new server, period.
be it a 1 slot or 2 or 85, there needs to be a completly new server... i mean
NC2 is a new game, and what kind of a game launches without a new, fresh
server... it's not like it's an addon, right? it's so much more...
Meh. I don't think a new server is needed. It's not like there will be players with 85 rares apt of 5 slot rares and 20 mil in cash.
crappppppppppp
looks like my first thing to do in NC2 is the biotech/pp epic then
Original monk
17-08-04, 17:56
didnt read full thread ... yust the first post/anouncement
and i dunno what to say nomore, i dunno if i have to laugh or cry or whatever
i really dunno anymore
i even dunno if i have possibility to pay true one of em paymentsystems lol, guess i beter go check that first
not even an emoticon atm
yust dont know
crappppppppppp
looks like my first thing to do in NC2 is the biotech/pp epic then
everyone though the anti city side was gonna be crowded, guess were all gonna be pro city to start with :lol:
To KK: Sometimes an unhappy decision is better accepted when people know the *why* behind it. For example, you will not allow Epic items (especially Epic implants) to be transferred ... perhaps if you post *why* you made that decision we might realize that you made the *right* decision even if we continue to be unhappy about it. Alternatively, once we know the Why, we might be able to help you see a means of resolving that in our favor as well.
Spook @ Pluto [who was within seconds of an uninstall yesterday but is now glad he waited]
They do say why in the post. Its because they have to delete the reveler and DRE storage app keys when they do the wipe, so they are just going to delete all of them and reset the epic status so everyone can do them again.
Disturbed021
17-08-04, 17:58
Are epic items Faction specific in NC2? Meaning you cannot wear a BioTech MOVE-ON chip unless you are in BioTech?
If yes, then I'm all for a wipe of epics and epic items.
If not however, then I fail to see the point.
Only reason then would be because ppl cannot transfer their 2 epic items that are keys. O_o Thats it? You're going to wipe all epic items because 2 cannot be transferred? :eek:
Thank God you guys didn't use this logic when the Remote Repair tool was disabled, otherwise ALL tradeskill tools would have been disabled....you know, for fairness and all.
You may want to reconsider this one unless, like I said-they ARE faction specific in NC2.
everyone though the anti city side was gonna be crowded, guess were all gonna be pro city to start with :lol:
hmm, with the transfer u know how u can change ur name if u want? will we be able to change factions, too? if not i gotta switch to like biotech before nc2 cuz im crahn right now :(
coppertop,
Yes, i know. It was simply a way of gently suggesting they rethink the issues involved; guess i should have worded it differently. Anyway ... the fact that they need to zap the keys, does not seem to require that they also zap the Epic implants as well; i.e. no technical constraint that forces an all-or-nothing purge. KK probably decided to remove all Epics under some misguided notion of "completeness" or "fairness" ... when in fact most of us would probably be happy with just Epic key deletion even if that is not "fair" with everyone.
In the final analysis, everything in the software world is SMOP ... Simple Matter of Programming. What KK will or won't do to resolve things in our favor will boil down to how much effort they are willing to put into it.
Spook @ Pluto
coppertop,
Yes, i know. It was simply a way of gently suggesting they rethink the issues involved; guess i should have worded it differently. Anyway ... the fact that they need to zap the keys, does not seem to require that they also zap the Epic implants as well; i.e. no technical constraint that forces an all-or-nothing purge. KK probably decided to remove all Epics under some misguided notion of "completeness" or "fairness" ... when in fact most of us would probably be happy with just Epic key deletion even if that is not "fair" with everyone.
Spook @ Pluto
sex @ spook, and yes :D
- Primate
hmm, with the transfer u know how u can change ur name if u want? will we be able to change factions, too? if not i gotta switch to like biotech before nc2 cuz im crahn right now :(
Good luck if you are on Saturn. :mad:
Talking of factions - anyone else think the next announcement will be that Sympathies are getting reset as well?
Cypher_Psy
17-08-04, 18:17
Ok, question here then.....
Regarding the rare tradeskill gloves... Will I be able to save using one of my 10 slots by putting a tradeskill glove in the hand "implant" slot?
They are kind of implants but don't need to be poked...
Would like this answered before I find out the glove vanishes if left in that slot :p
Shadow Dancer
17-08-04, 18:18
KK please don't open up too many servers. :(
enigma_b17
17-08-04, 18:22
Good luck if you are on Saturn. :mad:
Talking of factions - anyone else think the next announcement will be that Sympathies are getting reset as well?
er well if theyr gettin rid of epics then theyd ave to reset sympathies its as simple as that. But it is of no concern anymore for me, and alot of other ppl
Everything else aside, I'm not hearing this shit about how it kills anyone to type out a coherent paragraph or two. I don't care what the hell you're doing or how hectic your life is. It DOES NOT take an entire week for someone to either type up the next part of a beta diary, or fire off a quick response to some important community issues, I don't care how messed up your keyboard is or how many fingers you're missing. So please, FFS, nobody spew that crap any more, PLEASE.
Dirk_Gently
17-08-04, 18:35
lol "My Tank needs epic items for his setup" is absolute crap. My Tank doesn't have MOVEON or PPR and is fine. You remember how people say that stealth killed the skills of players with PEs??? This is the Tank equivalent. Work out a new set up to make up for your lack of skill, it will keep you occupied for a while.
Be realistic guys, the epics are very easy with high level chars, the hour that it will take you to do an epic is hardly going to kill you. It's not as if you are going to have to spend weeks farming warbots for them.
lol "My Tank needs epic items for his setup" is absolute crap. My Tank doesn't have MOVEON or PPR and is fine. You remember how people say that stealth killed the skills of players with PEs??? This is the Tank equivalent. Work out a new set up to make up for your lack of skill, it will keep you occupied for a while.
Be realistic guys, the epics are very easy with high level chars, the hour that it will take you to do an epic is hardly going to kill you. It's not as if you are going to have to spend weeks farming warbots for them.Well since you are so uber why dont you just leave all your implants behind and play your character without a single one? Obviously since you dont lack skill at all you will be more than capable of doing it. No. Simply wont happen. My PE without my PP is gimp city. Its already hard enough not wearing Power Armor. Maybe with a Gentank its different, but any PE who doesnt have an epic implant in his head either 1) uses high level rares or 2) is a dumb ass. :lol:
er well if theyr gettin rid of epics then theyd ave to reset sympathies
Well then lets think that through....
- Need to level symps but recycling missions are out because you're broke and research missions likewise becuase no-one has any BPs.
- Killing guards is crap at the best of times but triply so if you need to move factions again in a hurry to another on the same side
- All the vets end up in the newbie sewers fighting over who kills the next spider/rat/aggie.
- Newbies not only can't level but get ganked (no LE) or abused (LE) because the vets are bored and pissed off that they have to do this crap yet again just to get back to where they were a week ago.
At least if sympathies went over some people would get themselves prepared now. There seem to be some very odd "technical difficulties" though so I just wonder if this is next.
its as simple as that. But it is of no concern anymore for me, and alot of other ppl
Aye, me too :( I'm still curious though.
Dirk_Gently
17-08-04, 18:48
Well since you are so uber why dont you just leave all your implants behind and play your character without a single one? Obviously since you dont lack skill at all you will be more than capable of doing it. No. Simply wont happen. My PE without my PP is gimp city. Its already hard enough not wearing Power Armor. Maybe with a Gentank its different, but any PE who doesnt have an epic implant in his head either 1) uses high level rares or 2) is a dumb ass. :lol:
Wasn't talking about PEs, but if you aren't wearing PA then it serves you right ;) You can take things too far in trying to get the "ultimate" set up.
I appreciate MOVEON is used by alot of Tanks but to be honest if you are that desperate for it then redo the epic. This isn't like taking your 5 slot CS off of you where it could take ages to get one back.
As regards Fac Symps. You should be able to reselect a Faction at DoY sign in, and then have standard noob symps. Would love kk to make it that once you have done one epic then you can't do the epic for any of their enemies. :D
as posted by me on the poll thread here it is in the offical thread:
Wow epic wipe that just sucks total ass.I get to do the epics lets see here 4 times for biotech and 4 times for proto and once for CM.All I can say is fuck that.
If the epic wipe is gonna happen I will just cancel my second account so I only have 2 do the bio proto and cm epics once.There is no way in hell im doing those epics that many times again.It sucked bad enough the first time.
Oh well that will give me a 2x SF 2xSA 1xMarine 1xHerc 1x Psi core and 1x ds spare since the characters that use them will be cancleed I'll just xfere that shit to the account Im keeping.Woot I r Being rich at the start of NC2 :D
Holger Nathrath and KK:
Dear Sir (etc.), we respectfully request that you [re]consider allowing Epic Implants to be transferred as part of the NC2 upgrade process; the transfer would instead be allowed with the condition that the Epic Implants must already be implanted or be contained in the Quick Belt. The fact that Epic Keys would still be deleted is acceptable to us, even though this might seem "unfair" in general (i.e. some people will have Epic items deleted and others will not). In this case it is more important to retain the Epic Implants than it is to achieve a goal of fairness per se.
If there is something that prevents doing this ... please discuss it with us, because we may be able to help you find a way.
Spook @ Pluto [i personally do not have any Epic Implants at all]
Would love kk to make it that once you have done one epic then you can't do the epic for any of their enemies. :D
Second worst idea I've heard on ERs since making the rewards Faction-only.
Dirk_Gently
17-08-04, 19:07
Second worst idea I've heard on ERs since making the rewards Faction-only.
Oh I'm sorry I'm trying to get people to RP, I forgot that wasn't allowed.
NC2 is about a war. In wars defectors are never fully trusted. It is bullshit that you can happily swan around doing epics for various factions.
Epics should be a reward for loyalty to a faction not just a reward for killing alot of rats.
When epics were first introduced, and later when they hinted at what the doy epics prizes might be, I said it was the dumbest thing ever, and I still think it is.
The simple fact is that Epic Prizes encourage faction hopping. They actualy punish those that are loyal to their faction. The Tsunami epic prize will be a rifle.. which means jack to a Tsunami Monk like me. My faction is basicly saying it doesn't care about me. Crahn on the other hand is waving a big ole carrot infront of our faces and saying "Hey, come on over here and join Crahn, you get a super glove if you do!" If I abandon my faction, I'm rewarded with equipment to make me better in pvp. If I stay true to my faction.. I'm left behind in pvp. It is a fact that with the start of doy the majority of monks will be crahn, the majority of tradeskillers will be fa, and most everyone else will be pp or bio.
Some think the answer to this is to make prizes faction only, so that you must stay in a faction to use it.. that will only make it worse. You can not have class/profession specific equipment be available to only one faction! Either the prizes should not be specific to certain classes/professions or every faction should have something available for every class/profession. My faction should REWARD me for staying!
NS_CHROME54
17-08-04, 19:11
well it sux that i lose my moveon, speedgat, and reveler, but i'm hella glad we keep armour, imps, and 10 other items :)
Car, I'm sure I remember reading that all pro-city can do all pro-city epics without switching faction and vice versa in NC2. Though I can't remember where I saw it.
Oh I'm sorry I'm trying to get people to RP, I forgot that wasn't allowed.
No you're trying to get them to RP the way you decree they must.
NC2 is about a war. In wars defectors are never fully trusted. It is bullshit that you can happily swan around doing epics for various factions.
Epics should be a reward for loyalty to a faction not just a reward for killing alot of rats.
In war there are neutrals, diplomats, spies, double-agents. In war people do anything and everything they can to gain an advantage.
Dirk_Gently
17-08-04, 19:22
No you're trying to get them to RP the way you decree they must.
Not really I am merely saying that it is illogical that factions would give out their highest awards to former enemies who have already proven that they are unreliable..
In war there are neutrals, diplomats, spies, double-agents. In war people do anything and everything they can to gain an advantage.
Yes but if you look back very,very few of those people are ever afforded the highest rewards; which is what the epic reward is supposed to be.
Edit: We are going very off topic here (my fault I know) so would say that even though I am PP I am for the epic wipe. Indeed at our faction meetings the major complaint was that people were epic whoring and fucking up our faction. The idea put forward then was that you should have to be in PP a set amount of time before you could do the epic (3 months I think was said).
Not really I am merely saying that it is illogical that factions would give out their highest awards to former enemies who have already proven that they are unreliable..
They're not, the faction rewards are their best.
Also, the whole point of the epic, and the 300k to transfer, is to prove you're worthy.
Besides, what about people getting the epics and selling them? You going to campaign against that too?
Disturbed021
17-08-04, 19:26
When epics were first introduced, and later when they hinted at what the doy epics prizes might be, I said it was the dumbest thing ever, and I still think it is.
The simple fact is that Epic Prizes encourage faction hopping. They actualy punish those that are loyal to their faction. The Tsunami epic prize will be a rifle.. which means jack to a Tsunami Monk like me. My faction is basicly saying it doesn't care about me. Crahn on the other hand is waving a big ole carrot infront of our faces and saying "Hey, come on over here and join Crahn, you get a super glove if you do!" If I abandon my faction, I'm rewarded with equipment to make me better in pvp. If I stay true to my faction.. I'm left behind in pvp. It is a fact that with the start of doy the majority of monks will be crahn, the majority of tradeskillers will be fa, and most everyone else will be pp or bio.
Some think the answer to this is to make prizes faction only, so that you must stay in a faction to use it.. that will only make it worse. You can not have class/profession specific equipment be available to only one faction! Either the prizes should not be specific to certain classes/professions or every faction should have something available for every class/profession. My faction should REWARD me for staying!
I disagree. I think it is worse that ppl hop factions just for the rewards than hop right back to another faction and still get to use the item.
Epic items are supposed to be rewards for being such a good little *insert faction here*, yet anyone can get their symp up, transfer to any faction, get the epic reward, go back to their original faction and use the item regardless of that faction (cept the CA armor).
Most ppl view the Epic items as rare items, not Faction Epic items. And from a RP perspective that just seems totally wrong.
Dirk_Gently
17-08-04, 19:27
Besides, what about people getting the epics and selling them? You going to campaign against that too?
Nope that's fair enough.
I'm just saying that it is utterly illogical that factions would be totally ok with you going off to one of their enemies after doing their epic.
Fine then make it that once you leave a fac you can't do the epics of any fo their allies.
if the epics items were fun rather than integral(ie pp or bio) then it be ok limiting them, however many people setups now rely on them
2. We are trying to meet your wishes as far as possible. In addition to the items in the quickbelt, all the items in the implant and armor windows will be transferred too. That way, the number of transferable items will be increased considerably.
3. All items gained from epic runs will be deleted and the status of all epics will be reset, so everyone will be able to play the runs again. That way everyone is treated the same way, as the keys for the Reveler Chaincraft and the warehouse can not be transferred for technical reasons
2. is brilliant (i cant put into words how relieving that is) news. but 3 as a PE is bad news, I am pretty dependant on the pp resistor, but hey i guess ill go move over to PP before the change and get stuck in right away. Still, would be very happy to hear i wasnt going to lose this
are we getting our faction symps reset ? :D plz cause i hate being 99.9% unable* to get to another faction cause of the horrendously overpowered guards and the SL. would not complain if you would announce that 'after NC2 launch we will look into having a run to set a players faction sympathy back to 10 (so he still has to do even more work to join that faction) at a significant cost in time and credits.
*thats its so difficult from some factions to other factions you have more chance of getting struck by lightning etc.
I think its fair if you work your ass off to prove to a faction you are 'sorry' you should be able to join them, after all, you'd be an asset as a weapon at least.
Still, for point 2, THANK YOU KK !!! :D
if the epics items were fun rather than integral(ie pp or bio) then it be ok limiting them, however many people setups now rely on themIn some ways I wish epics were dependant on what faction you were. Like you could only use a PP if you were PP. Because its not necessarily that the PP chip is that integral, its just integral because the other PEs have the chips. Id make a thread suggesting something like this but I have the feeling Id be flamed to hell.
Great update.
I now have most of the information I was expecting to have, except about the open beta ;)
In some ways I wish epics were dependant on what faction you were. Like you could only use a PP if you were PP. Because its not necessarily that the PP chip is that integral, its just integral because the other PEs have the chips. Id make a thread suggesting something like this but I have the feeling Id be flamed to hell.
I don't think it's just about that though. A PP resistor and Moveon can mean more to some classes than others. For example, a rifle PE can use a Distance Weapon CPU instead of Moveon and trade some defence for higher RoF on his PE. Whereas a Spy without a Moveon is a complete gimp if he wants to wear Inq armor.
I disagree. I think it is worse that ppl hop factions just for the rewards than hop right back to another faction and still get to use the item.
Epic items are supposed to be rewards for being such a good little *insert faction here*, yet anyone can get their symp up, transfer to any faction, get the epic reward, go back to their original faction and use the item regardless of that faction (cept the CA armor).
Most ppl view the Epic items as rare items, not Faction Epic items. And from a RP perspective that just seems totally wrong.
Having them be restricted by faction is ok only if every faction rewards every class/profession in some way. Maybe some give a lil better reward then others, but noone should be left out in the cold. I would be fine if the absolute best monk reward came from crahn only if my faction also gave me something. So from my standpoint, I'd rather have faction hoping then unbalanced faction only prizes. Or better yet just get rid of epic prizes entirely, make the reward not comething so class/faction specific.
Scikar: If that's true it would help, but the problem would still exist on a larger scale. Doy would be populated by Monks and Tradeskillers against Neocron with everyone else.
Disturbed021
17-08-04, 19:47
Or better yet just get rid of epic prizes entirely, make the reward not comething so class/faction specific.
Agreed. They would have to a lot of balancing in order to make Epic items Faction Specific. Maybe make all the Epic items as they are now just Item Runs, that way there would be no reason to delete them :p And make up something else for Faction items...
As I see it most people return to their original faction after doing the ERs they need for items so they were never disloyal to their true cause. During their time in other factions they were acting under cover (not supported in the game but that's what RP is for) and doing whatever was needed to get the items to make their true faction stronger.
As already stated ER items are not the "highest honour", they are issued to all faction members at a fairly low level (XP-wise). Epic Rewards are more akin to getting a gun after basic training than a VC for saving a burning orphanage.
As long as some ER items are so influential in PvP it would be insane to restrict their use to any one faction or even group of factions.
@Dirk - FYI - "Yes but if you look back very,very few of those people are ever afforded the highest rewards" is only true wrt the highest awards but far from true in terms of things equivalent to ER items. However that gets us into several topics that are forbidden on this board.
Wouldnt it be funny if KK TOLD people epic items wouldnt transfer, and no one left them in their head or QB... when in fact they actually would have transferred???
Wouldnt it be funny if KK TOLD people epic items wouldnt transfer, and no one left them in their head or QB... when in fact they actually would have transferred???
Sick, sick puppy.
Don't give them ideas.
3. All items gained from epic runs will be deleted and the status of all epics will be reset, so everyone will be able to play the runs again.
Um, but no, LE users cannot play the runs again as they couldn't play them in the first place. (except for the Next epic)
I'm not clanned and put a lot of work into getting the epic items I wanted for large amounts of money and or trading. Why is this being taken away?
Other then that I was happy to see you come on here and address some of the issues in a professional manner during this very busy time and would like to thank you.
Thank you Holger for taking the time to post.
BUT, just when I thought it couldn't get worse re: item wipes, KK puts out this gem of an idea:
'Hey, lets allow players to keep their imps and armor, but let's eliminate their epic imps and their epic weapons.'
So, my tank can't have his MOVEON or his favorite weapon, his 5slot uber Speedie that he's used since a mid-lvl tank and an item that never drops (her name is "Monique the Monk Slayer").
Was there any thought to the idea of HISTORY in this game? I mean, after all, it is an RPG.
Ok, so you're eliminating my collection of hard-earned dogtags over the past few years, ok, so you're taking my homes away from me, along with all the effort I put into farming rares (usually by myself b/c no one else is playing while I'm on), BUT DON'T TAKE MONIQUE away from me!!! Epic runs are part of a character's experience and past accomplishments can NOT be erased from your character's history in an RPG.
And for those that say "Faction Whoring" goes against RP, I strongly disagree. IRL as you get older, you will work for many different companies. For various reasons you will not stay with just one company for your entire career and YES, there are people IRL who work with a company just to use them to gain a specific thing (IRL = experience, name, etc. AND Ingame = items), then move on. This is an accepted practice in the businessworld because the companies do the same thing to you as an employee, anyone who disagrees with this from their personal experience IRL is VERY LUCKY indeed!
Thanks for the heads up, hopefully we'll continue getting decent bits of information and decent communication prior to and well after DoY retail.
Or better yet just get rid of epic prizes entirely, make the reward not comething so class/faction specific.
Ding ding ding. Win.
bull shit absolutly bullshit
I feel the pain. They should make all items 120/120 when they are transferred and reset the FS to 0 for all factions except your own. That way people can start working on moving faction if needs be.
Wouldnt it be funny if KK TOLD people epic items wouldnt transfer, and no one left them in their head or QB... when in fact they actually would have transferred???
You should send your CV into KK. :D
Thank you Holger for taking the time to post.
BUT, just when I thought it couldn't get worse re: item wipes, KK puts out this gem of an idea:
'Hey, lets allow players to keep their imps and armor, but let's eliminate their epic imps and their epic weapons.'
So, my tank can't have his MOVEON or his favorite weapon, his 5slot uber Speedie that he's used since a mid-lvl tank and an item that never drops (her name is "Monique the Monk Slayer").
Was there any thought to the idea of HISTORY in this game? I mean, after all, it is an RPG.
Ok, so you're eliminating my collection of hard-earned dogtags over the past few years, ok, so you're taking my homes away from me, along with all the effort I put into farming rares (usually by myself b/c no one else is playing while I'm on), BUT DON'T TAKE MONIQUE away from me!!! Epic runs are part of a character's experience and past accomplishments can NOT be erased from your character's history in an RPG.
And for those that say "Faction Whoring" goes against RP, I strongly disagree. IRL as you get older, you will work for many different companies. For various reasons you will not stay with just one company for your entire career and YES, there are people IRL who work with a company just to use them to gain a specific thing (IRL = experience, name, etc. AND Ingame = items), then move on. This is an accepted practice in the businessworld because the companies do the same thing to you as an employee, anyone who disagrees with this from their personal experience IRL is VERY LUCKY indeed!
It's not about that. It's about fairness, remember there is an entire community to consider. It wouldn't be fair to reset epic runs and let some people do it twice when others only get to do it once now would it?
I do appriciate your point, it is very valid. However I can totally see where Reakktor are coming from. Fairness is important.
It's not about that. It's about fairness, remember there is an entire community to consider. It wouldn't be fair to reset epic runs and let some people do it twice when others only get to do it once now would it?
I do appriciate your point, it is very valid. However I can totally see where Reakktor are coming from.Well, I doubt a person would do the epic twice and keep both items they receive... Especially since all of them except for the apartment will either be indestructable or repair back to 120%. No need for it, so it becomes a trade item... Which isn't bad in itself in my opinion.
Well, I hardly doubt a person would do the epic twice and keep both items they receive... Especially since all of them except for the apartment will either be indestructable or repair back to 120%. No need for it, so it becomes a trade item... Which isn't bad in itself in my opinion.
One person gets a single epic item, another gets two epic items. Unfair, period.
One person gets a single epic item, another gets two epic items. Unfair, period.
He has to work for both.
Both people could also opt to buy the items.
Why don't they just transfer Epic status, Faction sympathies and ER items if people put them in their heads/qbs?
One person gets a single epic item, another gets two epic items. Unfair, period.
There are lots of things ingame which are unfair, but that is the most asinine and trivial of the lot; the way I see it... one can compare it to vet rewards. Are there enough people playing to make it unbalanced? No, not really... Especially if publishing goes well.
Factor in the fact that 99% of those items received will go straight into the market...
End equation: It doesn't matter.
You can't force fairness and still have freedom.
Fairness has to come from a person's decisions and choices, an imposed fairness leads to people wanting ways to beat the system.
I believe it is fair that I earned my items in NC1, I should have them in NC2, rather than take my things and force me to have to start from scratch (like I did already, and now must do again).
Forcing fairness shows a lack of faith in humanity.
I for one, am for freedom. Fairness will follow suit.
Ref: EPIC Item wipe
This is fine if you play every day. It took me 4 months to get all my items and complete the pro-city epics. Addionally my Faction Sympathies have been screwed up due to running the Epics, there is no way I have the time to do them again.
People tend to forget that there are some people who play this game who have to balance NC with a family and job. I manage to spend 2 hours a week on this game, with a few periods when family goes on holiday without me. (No offence intended in any way to students/unemployed or those at school.)
This why I am really against such a harsh penallty for investing so much of my time into this game.
I really am sick to death of this fucking over by KK regarding the item wipe. I 'feel' conned into spending my time on the game. (Note that I said that I felt conned, and not actually conned.)
I would have survived with the 10 items plus the currently implanted items, but now I am seriously reconsidering computer games in general, esp., if the games providers are unwilling to provide a persistant 'universe'.
Well, looks like I missed the boat on this one (damn work for blocking this site). Here's my two pence.
As soon as KK said that the keys wouldn't be transferrable, I was 95% sure the epics would be wiped, and while its a pain, I agree with the idea. Heres why:
One rule for everyone: If KK really cant transfer the DRE and NEXT epics, and I mean really can't do it, its only fair that they all get wiped. Not everyone cares about the above epics, but the Storage Cell is a lot more usefull to a tradeskiller than a PP or Move On, and the Reveller is just as usefull to a driver as a Move On is.
Half the epics need wiping anyway: As we know, the epic statuses for the anti-city factions are going to be reset so they can do their epics.
Exploits: If there is (or was) an exploit to dupe items without running though the construction process, epic items are just a vulnerable to being duplicated as anything else.
Rebalancing the distribution: Ok, so everyone will have alts, and thats going to screw this idea up, but there isn't a lot you can do about this without some serious meta-game rules being applied. Based on the assumption that it wont be as easy to go procity > anticity (or visa versa, see below), all anti-city factions are going to have easy access to all epic items (they have the pro city ones already, if they want them). The same wont be true for pro-city runners.
Re-jig of the Epic process: First I think its likely that the epics will have changed to some degree - if nothing else, they are likely to reflect the new faction alignments. That alone should make them worth doing anyway. Secondly, I *assume* going procity to anticity (or the other way around) is not going to be as simple as it is now. In a Red vs Blue situation, changing cities might cost millions, or perhaps require 100 FS in the target faction.. there could, and should, be all kinds of hoops to jump through to change cities.
Thats about it for now. On the subject of resetting FS, I agree to a point - those with negative FS should get it reset to 0 or 10, but positive FS should be left alone. We dont want to encourage KK to tinker with our actual characters any more than they have to! :D
Ref: EPIC Item wipe
This is fine if you play every day. It took me 4 months to get all my items and complete the pro-city epics. Addionally my Faction Sympathies have been screwed up due to running the Epics, there is no way I have the time to do them again.
People tend to forget that there are some people who play this game who have to balance NC with a family and job. I manage to spend 2 hours a week on this game, with a few periods when family goes on holiday without me. (No offence intended in any way to students/unemployed or those at school.)
This why I am really against such a harsh penallty for investing so much of my time into this game.
I really am sick to death of this fucking over by KK regarding the item wipe. I 'feel' conned into spending my time on the game. (Note that I said that I felt conned, and not actually conned.)
I would have survived with the 10 items plus the currently implanted items, but now I am seriously reconsidering computer games in general, esp., if the games providers are unwilling to provide a persistant 'universe'.
My new hero!
Ditto to what HE said.
1) It will screw over the LE users. People saying "Just buy them", bare in mind they are going to get ripped off in the cash department.
2) It will be great for camping epic areas for definate kills. :D As everyone and their mother will be redoing the epics.
hegemonic,
You raise some interesting philosophical points [yes this is a semi-digression from the main thread].
Unfortunately, history has repeatedly proven that those who have “faith in humanity” are merely being naïve. This is because there is a sizeable percentage in any given population, of most any culture, who do not care about “fairness”. They actively take advantage of others whenever and however it suits them. Which is why legal systems were invented … to provide a basis and rationale for how to deal with people who prey upon others. So a degree of fairness often *does* need to be enforced to help ensure there is indeed at least that much of it. Hence there is an eternal struggle to provide people with as much freedom as possible, yet restrain and punish those who go against the accepted ethics and morals of the land.
As a simple example, taking your views (“I for one, am for freedom. Fairness will follow suit”) to an admitted extreme: are you really willing to have all laws against stealing and theft removed from the law books? Meaning, it is only fair for you to retain the things that you own, and not fair for others to take them away … so since you have faith in humanity no one is going to steal that stuff and you don’t need the enforced fairness of theft laws to help protect you … right? Similarly, are you willing to have your Go-Gu and apartment Cabinets accessable to everyone because you are confident no one will steal from you ... because that would be unfair and you have faith people will want to be fair?
Another example is the minimum wage laws in this country. Employers were taking advantage of unskilled and low-skilled labor by paying them a mere pittance that was grossly unfair. That practice was rampant throughout the entire country, and no amount of faith in humanity was changing it. So the government put into law certain rules regarding wages to help ensure reasonable payment. Would you have those laws removed from the books and do you believe that companies would still pay fair wages today?
The inherent goodness in people is a wonderful notion, but is in truth a myth. One of the tough lessons a young adult needs to learn as he/she ventures into the world is that - contrary to storybooks - life is not at all "fair" ... nor does everyone care about "fair" ... and that fairness has to be continually striven for (and even enforced) to keep it from being lost.
Spook @ Pluto
oh well atleast this settles my account problems... my tanks and pes will die and my monks will move on :(
I feel sorry for my main and oldest tank deacon.. he was one of the 10 first chars created on pluto.. too bad he cant continue in nc2...
but I REALLY HATE THE EPICS.. done 2 of em bought the rest of my 8-10 epic cpus....
Monkocron here I come! now wtf should i do with 2 ppus 3 apus :confused:
RATTLECAGE
17-08-04, 21:35
hmmm, lemme get this straight. we get to keep the armor we can buy in shoppes but we loose the hard earned epics which you cant buy in shoppes.um wtf is wrong here,so your saying all that time acquiring those epics where a waste of time .sounds like like it's dicking time again. i feel like a female porno star and kk is the male star cause you know what they keep doing to me.hey kk go easy on me. let us keep the epics and screw the armor.
Ye Whats That for BoolS! I wanna keep my Moveon and Resister!!!!!
Change the plan!!! :mad: :mad:
hegemonic,
You raise some interesting philosophical points [yes this is a semi-digression from the main thread].
Spook @ Pluto
:)
PM'd.
Damn limit on 4000.... I'm replying now... check next page. :)
Promethius
17-08-04, 21:53
hmmm, lemme get this straight. we get to keep the armor we can buy in shoppes but we loose the hard earned epics which you cant buy in shoppes.um wtf is wrong here,so your saying all that time acquiring those epics where a waste of time .sounds like like it's dicking time again. i feel like a female porno star and kk is the male star cause you know what they keep doing to me.hey kk go easy on me. let us keep the epics and screw the armor.
Hell yea. I couldn't give a rats ass about armor. Its the epics i want to keep and save myself 3 hours by doing an epic. Also i remember hearing a lil while ago that we WOULD be keeping our epics. Unless they make the current epic chips buyable in a store and make new epic items for factions, we should be allowed to keep them.
-Prom
Think of all those people who have completed the Anti-City epics? It would be much worse to introduce new game features that most people can't actually get! THERE IS A NEW FEATURE OF COURSE KK HAVE TO START THE EPICS OVER AGAIN! Doh! Added to fairness added to stop whining = I win you loose kthnxbye.
Think of all those people who have completed the Anti-City epics? It would be much worse to introduce new game features (new epics) that most people can't actually get! THERE IS A NEW FEATURE OF COURSE KK HAVE TO START THE EPICS OVER AGAIN! Doh!Last time I checked, one doesn't have to be a faction master (or even a member of the faction) to use their epic items, so faction sympathies can get reset without effecting the use of faction items.
I think a person who completed the old Epic shouldn't be forced to endure the new one. If they want to? Great, another epic item for the market - it certainly doesn't hurt anyone.
Think of all those people who have completed the Anti-City epics? It would be much worse to introduce new game features that most people can't actually get! THERE IS A NEW FEATURE OF COURSE KK HAVE TO START THE EPICS OVER AGAIN! Doh! Added to fairness added to stop whining = I win you loose kthnxbye.\
So, they can reset epics. But they dont have to remove the damn epic implants!
Don't do like your the win, cus your in beta!! Nibish F!
Epics are shit easy anyway.
Go to A1, talk to random guy and get a peice of cheese. Go to H12, kill some newbie NPC and take his hat. Go back to Faction and give the hat and cheese to complete epic. #2: Spam trade for 5 minuits untill some newbie offers to die for credits. #3: Grab a baseball bat and go to the sewers and play baseball under Shadow Dancers appartment. #4: do something else thats incredibly easy...
est']Nibish F!
Love the way you call me a Nibish F to avoid getting a ban, you F.A. (fallen angel of course! What else?) By the way, I'm not a nib, and I r teh sex.
If this is all happening becuase of the NEXT and DRE epics then that's even more insane.
The DRE is total crap IMO. Even if you disagree now and can cope with it's several large drawbacks compared to the current apps then forget it - NC2 allows you to buy more storage and put it in an appartment that's in a non-crap part af town, has a GR and that doesn't look like hobo's use it as a toilet. Maybe it could even give KK a chance to provide DRE with an ER reward that makes sense in terms of the faction and the ER.
The Reveler is pretty much the only vehicle I use but I could live without one easily. It's mainly used to help newbies around these days anyway and between the marketing and distribution, the community, this upgrade process and the crazy price-tag that's not going to be an issue in NC2. I could happily buy one a month or two into the game or get it myself once things calm down.
Well you do the epic's for me!
And im not FA but BD
Think of all those people who have completed the Anti-City epics? It would be much worse to introduce new game features that most people can't actually get! THERE IS A NEW FEATURE OF COURSE KK HAVE TO START THE EPICS OVER AGAIN! Doh! Added to fairness added to stop whining = I win you loose kthnxbye.
What the hell are you on about?
The temporary epics were always known and understood to be temporary - hence the name. :rolleyes:
est']Well you do the epic's for me!
Okay, and I will charge 200k with the perfect econamy that occurs in Neocron 2. ;)
Epics are shit easy anyway.
Go to A1, talk to random guy and get a peice of cheese. Go to H12, kill some newbie NPC and take his hat. Go back to Faction and give the hat and cheese to complete epic. #2: Spam trade for 5 minuits untill some newbie offers to die for credits. #3: Grab a baseball bat and go to the sewers and play baseball under Shadow Dancers appartment. #4: do something else thats incredibly easy...It's a time drain that not everyone can accomplish with ease. I can't force my playstyle on you - nor you me. But when a person has a very limited playing window, I think it unfair to expect them to rise to the same expectations as a person who can devote hours upon hours. Especially after literally robbing them of their accomplishments.
Most of those that have left aren't "OMG NIBBISH KIDDIES< LOL", they're the people who gained and literally survived through limited playtime. Things like this are inconsiderate to those people to say the least.
Can't transfer apartments? Fine. Scour, check to see who presently owns an epic apartment; make a list.
Wipe, transfer characters, spawn epic apartment keys - distribute to list. Same can be said about the NEXT epic.
Courtesy (>)(<)(=) Brutality.
IDEAL: Reset all Anti-City epics. Carry faction epic status over along with faction items.
REALITY: The ideal will probabally take months of programming to implament, months of bugs left unfixed to appease the forum whiners.
IDEAL: Reset all Anti-City epics. Carry faction epic status over along with faction items.
REALITY: The ideal will probabally take months of programming to implament, months of bugs left unfixed to appease the forum whiners.
I would much rather have a courteous and responsive staff than a new game. Appeasing people, and addressing their complaints is a first step. Thinking ahead to possible problems that certain features may cause, and acting to fix them pre-emptively is the second step. Creating an atmosphere where growth is experienced by both players and the company is the third step.
At which point you come to a landing - a better building point for a new set of steps.
IDEAL: Reset all Anti-City epics. Carry faction epic status over along with faction items.
Yep - that's what they should do. A character's faction achievements are a part of him in the same way his stats are. They are also both just numbers and flags in a database.
REALITY: The ideal will probabally take months of programming to implament, months of bugs left unfixed to appease the forum whiners.
That's your theory based on neither experience nor education. It's wrong, biased and misleading.
That's your theory based on neither experience nor education. It's wrong, biased and misleading.
Well, if I'm wrong, Kk will implament your idea. :) (hopefully)
I'm posting this here because PMs only allow 4000 characters.... This is not OT but is a bit deeper than game mechanics, for that I will not apologize.
Unfortunately, history has repeatedly proven that those who have “faith in humanity” are merely being naïve. This is because there is a sizeable percentage in any given population, of most any culture, who do not care about “fairness”. They actively take advantage of others whenever and however it suits them. Which is why legal systems were invented … to provide a basis and rationale for how to deal with people who prey upon others. So a degree of fairness often *does* need to be enforced to help ensure there is indeed at least that much of it. Hence there is an eternal struggle to provide people with as much freedom as possible, yet restrain and punish those who go against the accepted ethics and morals of the land.
Agreed but my statements were in regards to fairness in terms of NC2 regarding item wipes. I don't find it naive to have faith in humanity although 28 years of hard-knocks have tried to tell me otherwise.
I believe in the kharmic realization that everything balances itself out. This does not presuppose me to be the "victim" of others. I must take pro-active measures to ensure that my freedoms are not trampled upon.
As a simple example, taking your views (“I for one, am for freedom. Fairness will follow suit”) to an admitted extreme: are you really willing to have all laws against stealing and theft removed from the law books?
I'm not speaking here in the broader sense of public and enforced policy because that would mean anarchy. I'm speaking of ideals that I follow in pursuit of fairness. Why then should freedom be awarded only to me because I am a fair person? In contrast, why should I be limited in my freedoms because we assume others to not be capable of fairness? That is prejudging guilt before proof. To place things on a case-by-case basis is much too time consuming and allows even more possibility (and inevitability) of corruption and abuse.
Meaning, it is only fair for you to retain the things that you own, and not fair for others to take them away … so since you have faith in humanity no one is going to steal that stuff and you don’t need the enforced fairness of theft laws to help protect you … right? Similarly, are you willing to have your Go-Gu and apartment Cabinets accessable to everyone because you are confident no one will steal from you ... because that would be unfair and you have faith people will want to be fair?
I never claimed absolute faith in humanity, nor did I claim absolute anything. The problems that arise in philosophical discussions is that often, ideas are taken to the far extreme and to the point of absurdity, much like your example of the Gogu here.
Have you ever heard the expression; "Locks are created to keep honest men honest."? If a thief wants my items, he WILL find a way to deprive me of them. All I can do is protect myself the best I can and hope for the best. I do not invite calamity but at the same time, I do not live my life in fear of it.
Another example is the minimum wage laws in this country. Employers were taking advantage of unskilled and low-skilled labor by paying them a mere pittance that was grossly unfair. That practice was rampant throughout the entire country, and no amount of faith in humanity was changing it. So the government put into law certain rules regarding wages to help ensure reasonable payment. Would you have those laws removed from the books and do you believe that companies would still pay fair wages today?
Laws are made in the interest of the general public to stave off revolution. Leave it be long enough, and you WILL see an uprising to change it. You won't see it left alone because revolutions and uprisings kill the financial markets and cause the politicians to lose money, so it's in the "haves" best interest to appease the "have nots". Hence, labor laws.
The inherent goodness in people is a wonderful notion, but is in truth a myth. One of the tough lessons a young adult needs to learn as he/she ventures into the world is that - contrary to storybooks - life is not at all "fair" ... nor does everyone care about "fair" ... and that fairness has to be continually striven for (and even enforced) to keep it from being lost.
We are capable of the greatest evil, but we are also capable of the greatest good. This is the nature of duality in mankind. Fairness is created by participants involved, not by some umbrella policy. A forced fairness just breeds contempt.
Have we not seen the barrage of contempt and revolution here on the forum from the forced fairness that is proposed?
Freedom, Equality, Honor, Integrity, Friendship
__bigs__
=SSC=
It's not about that. It's about fairness, remember there is an entire community to consider. It wouldn't be fair to reset epic runs and let some people do it twice when others only get to do it once now would it?
I do appriciate your point, it is very valid. However I can totally see where Reakktor are coming from. Fairness is important.
Don't reset the epics in the first place and there's no problem with fairness.
Well, if I'm wrong, Kk will implament your idea. :) (hopefully)If only it were that simple.
My point is that there is no valid technical reason why (in theory at least) KK can't transfer every last poison gland from NC1 to NC2.
That's not to say they don't have other reasons but if they (or anyone else) blamed it on "technical difficulties" my BS-meter goes mental.
The only way there can be technical problems is if the implementation is flawed - in which case it should be fixed now before more problems appear post-launch.
Don't reset the epics in the first place and there's no problem with fairness.
Yes, but that way several people wearing Cypher helmets won't be able to do the new faction epics, reducing NC2's content.
Ideal [mentioned earlier] > Epic Wipe > Epic Reset/Items Carried Over > No Epic Reset/Items Carried Over.
Shadow Dancer
17-08-04, 22:31
Yes, but that way several people wearing Cypher helmets won't be able to do the new faction epics, reducing NC2's content.
They could reset anti-city epics.
Yes, but that way several people wearing Cypher helmets won't be able to do the new faction epics, reducing NC2's content.
I don't follow that at all. The temporary epics were always going to be wiped - no one is going to complain about that.
I don't follow that at all. The temporary epics were always going to be wiped - no one is going to complain about that.
Exactly, I think we were all led to beleive that only the anti-city epics would be subject to change. The only reason that they were added into the game alongside the pro-city missions was because faction master status because a neccesity for starting clans.
Yes, but that way several people wearing Cypher helmets won't be able to do the new faction epics, reducing NC2's content.
They could easily wipe the anti-city flags and not effect anything else. As for Cypher helmets, it has always been assumed (from I recall a post a long time ago) that the items giving as anti-city epic items will be sold freely in DOY as they aren't that great to begin with.
the items giving as anti-city epic items will be sold freely in DOY as they aren't that great to begin with.
Exactly. In fact the DOY Raygun was sold slotted in HEW for months at the start of retail.
I say give proto and bio tech a new reward for epic.Let all the chips pass to NC2 as a Vet reward.
With similar chips put in to make then not needed for top setups.It will gives us some thing for beta testing NC for NC2 :p
Vet reward
Only companies that care about their customers do things like that ;).
Promethius
17-08-04, 23:56
Only companies that care about their customers do things like that ;).
lmao, That means no PPR and moveon for us vets.
-Prom
One the issue of no one character server when NC2 starts...
I'm assuming that you have to transfer all your chars at the point where you upgrade to NC2. Would it be possible to create a holding database for characters that are unassigned, and can be assigned to a server (such as the one character server) at a latter date ?
I just don't want o be be in a state of waiting to play NC2 until the 1 char international server come online (however long that may be).
oh bloody hell i DO NOT believe this!
i got up at 8:00AM today to do the PP epic and and BT epic, its now 11:20PM
and ive finally completed BOTH epics. i logged off, to come to some more news that made me sink......im now depressed.....AHHHHH!
surely if the implants were in our heads it'll be ok.....right?
KK PLEASE TEST THIS! I SHALL NOT SLEEP UNTIL I GET AN OFFICIAL REPORT STATING THAT UVE TESTED THIS AND IT WORKS.....
OH THE PAIN......THE PAIN!!! :( :( :( :( :( :mad: :( :( :( :( :(
Shadow Dancer
18-08-04, 00:30
One the issue of no one character server when NC2 starts...
I'm assuming that you have to transfer all your chars at the point where you upgrade to NC2. Would it be possible to create a holding database for characters that are unassigned, and can be assigned to a server (such as the one character server) at a latter date ?
I just don't want o be be in a state of waiting to play NC2 until the 1 char international server come online (however long that may be).
5. Concerning the character transfer: All characters will be transferred into a big database at an appointed date. During this transfer, all the possession of the characters will be removed, except for the items in the quickbelt, the worn armor and implants. Players will be able to either move these characters to the Neocron Classic server or upgrade them to Neocron 2. While the characters transferred to NC Classic remain in this database, characters upgraded to NC2 will be deleted from this database to prevent them from being loaded from that backup again. All other characters remain in the database and can be upgraded at a later time. So even if a player wants to do the upgrade to NC2 sometime after the release, his character data will represent the status of the appointed date. This is also the case if the character has been played on the Neocron Classic server in the meantime. We will announce the date for this transfer at the end of this month. As the current Neocron servers have to be merged into the Neocron Classic server, there is unfortunately no way around this. The monthly fees for Neocron Classic remain at the level of the current Neocron fees.
Hehe :p
ok i didnt go through all the pages, so i hope this hasn't already been posted.
how about an update on the payment method? thats really all i want to know now, the only thing that might keep me from playing. so how about an update on that? Please :D
Well got to page 9 and all seemed the same so no way reading the rest (apoligies if topics answered).
First thxs KK, hearing words from the horses mouth comforts me that u aware of our exsitance.
Second gah cool for imps and armour being transfered.. but the epic wipe has proberly just put my main char (Cerbitank) out of action... goodbye PP, MOVEON,3 slott Speed gat.... hmm crap.
Third most my chars screwed their faction symphyies cause after doing epics i stayed loyal to my choosen faction, If im in a faction its only their symphyies i was concerned about. Please god reset them.
Forth i heard a rumor when transfering chars you pick which faction they go in... is this true? If so im putting 2 chars in PP, 1 char in BT, 1 char in CM, and maybe another char to do CA straight away to get new clan key.
Fifth is a good'n, the CA epic looks good and fitting for a CA member of where u can show ur proud of your faction. Thing is would i fight in it? FUCK NO the resists absolutly suxs, Epics and fact u required to be of that faction to wear it should meet standards of other epics. I will walk around in it about plaza (only cause atm its a non safe zone) but if i fight i would wear Camo. Camo has the advantage of bonuses like STR and HC/Melee but atleast make Epic PA have the same resists. It would make things look nicer as there will be a difference, and more sense of RP. Even help anti city spot us (if u looking on that side of things) and our own members/faction not shoot before they check name/faction text. ATM the way it stands i would only wear it around my appt before i go to slip as i have my night-cap :lol:
Sixth the amount of people in BT and PP to start with will be emense! Do the epic.. lol there will be a que at each epic guy for weeks.
these arnt flames but opinions.
Only companies that care about their customers do things like that ;).
yeah right look at EA they dont like their customers, they stole money off my card and said they never did,are just plain rude to you if you e-mail them with a problem and the vet rewards on ultima sucked a hotdog :lol: so just because they give vet rewards dont mean they care about the players
trigger hurt
18-08-04, 00:47
I am certain these statements create at least as many question as they answer. But we will all have to live with that. The next update on the situation will come after the Games Convention.
Not for me.
I can deal with the loss of epic items. Unfortunatly, the ones I do have now become useless, making it even more difficult for me to regain them because I have changed to a hostile faction and I hope that switching factions is being made alot more difficult. Either way, I have to live with that decision as it isnt right for me to keep my epic chips and guns while someone else loses and entire apartment.
As for the quickbelt/armor/implants...thank you. The community, whether they will express it or not, really does appreciate that. Since you are removing epic items anyway, it frees up another 3 slots in my quickbelt or implant slots, so I can now carry over something else I wanted to take over, instead of the other stuff.
I hope that your interaction with the community is a sign that, in the future, you will be a much more vocal ceo than Martin. Martin spoke when absolutly needed, but sometimes, the community wants to see that you guys are paying attention to what we desire. It doesn't have to be done, the majority of us will stick around, but we want to know you will consider it.
Thanks.
hegemonic,
Thank you for thought-provoking responses instead of the more traditional STFU or U SUXXOR that is more typical of these forums. ;)
I never claimed absolute faith in humanity, nor did I claim absolute anything.
Hmmm, sorry, i guess i errored, but these statements seemed to imply just that: "Forcing fairness shows a lack of faith in humanity." and "I for one, am for freedom. Fairness will follow suit". Both seem to be straightforward and absolute in their declarations. The first, that you have faith that humanity will provide fairness; and the second, that with freedom will come fairness.
Agreed but my statements were in regards to fairness in terms of NC2 regarding item wipes.
Again, the face value of your written words seemed to indicate you were making all-encompassing statements, your philosophical outlook on life in general as it were, and not game specific - views which you then did indeed apply to the game to make a specific point.
I don't find it naive to have faith in humanity although 28 years of hard-knocks have tried to tell me otherwise.
Whereas 52 years for me have proven that one would be unwise to have faith in humanity as a whole, whereas trust and confidence can be placed in individuals, and collections of people, where such trust and confidence has been earned or otherwise garnered. A person need only read the histories of this world and its peoples' ongoing inhumanity to themselves and others to realize that putting any faith in humanity as a whole for any purpose is sadly misplaced.
I believe in the kharmic realization that everything balances itself out.
That being so, then we have exchanged some interesting personal views ... but further discussion may be unlikely to lead to anything conclusive ... other than we have differing opinions.
I must take pro-active measures to ensure that my freedoms are not trampled upon.
But is that not what enforced fairness actually is? That being, the mutual consensus and codification of pro-active measures by you and like-minded individuals who band together to ensure you are not trampled upon? As oppose to individual, uncoordinated, measures?
You can't force fairness and still have freedom.
This is true, to the extent that you cannot have full-unconstrained freedom when ensuring fairness. When done wisely the tradeoffs are worthwhile.
why should I be limited in my freedoms because we assume others to not be capable of fairness? That is prejudging guilt before proof.
In any given population there is an extremely high probability that there are some who are unwilling to be fair to others: school yard bullies, vindictive neighbors, con men, purse snatchers, street thugs, and so on. As an analog, it is a known major problem in mmorpg games in general that griefers will be a certain percentage of the player population; every online game maker ends up having to decide whether to program specific measures against them or not. People who do not care about fairness exist, why pretend otherwise?
Fairness is created by participants involved, not by some umbrella policy
But an umbrella policy *is* the fairness (or a means of ensuring the fairness) created by those self-same participants; or created by representatives on behalf of other like-minded people. With regard to NC, the Devs who implement fairness enforcement represent the rest of us who desire fairness.
I think we are miscommunicating on certain remaining points that i raised in response to your original post, since i am having difficulty relating your other responses to the essence of my own remarks. But then i guess that's the shortfall of forum postings versus dynamic verbal debate. Either that, or i am being a bit dim at the moment. In any event, i am going to try again on a couple of key areas.
Forcing fairness shows a lack of faith in humanity.
A corollary to your statement is: fairness will occur, even if not enforced, because humanity will eventually cause it to happen. Which, quite frankly, i feel is not true, and has been proven to be so over the entire history of the human race - the occurrence of fairness is sporadic at best, and almost invariably has had to be codified and enforced. With regard to mmorpgs, there are indeed many who will play fair without fairness needing to be enforced by programming - perhaps even the majority - but there will also be those who will do their best to take unfair advantage no matter the circumstances.
I for one, am for freedom. Fairness will follow suit.
If you mean that Fairness follows as a result of having / achieving / ensuring Freedom, then I simply disagree ... just as one cannot rely upon humanity to bring fairness into the world, neither has any degree of freedom for the individual ever brought fairness in its wake. Where fairness has occurred, it has been primarily the result of a people collectively enforcing it with laws, not as the natural order of things. With regard to mmorpgs ... fairness typically requires specific programming on the part of game makers to enforce it ... because otherwise the basic freedoms granted to players would result in unfair abuses against the game's limitations and against other players. The people who exploited deficiencies in NC1 to gain extra items they should not have gotten, or to defeat other people unfairly during Op fights, are perfect examples.
Okay, that's enough on this side topic from me. [the few forum members who even noticed these postings all sigh with relief at this point] You have the gist of my own beliefs; now, if not before. Thank you for the exchange. Should you decide to make any final commentary [those same few forum members hurl invective in my direction] i will receive it with interest.
Spook @ Pluto
Whoa, when did this thread turn philosophical? Not that I mind, that was a very good read, MegaCorp. Now I just gotta search some 20 pages to find where that started. :o
ya dont wipe epic items, i dont care about anything else but dont wipe them. 3/4's the server is gonna be bt or pp. I dont even know why it was suggested 0_o
At least I can take my entire glove collection and the bulk of my rare CPU collection now, along with level 3 imps, etc. That's nicer than having to choose between weapons or equipment. Shame my PE will lose his MOVEON, but hopefully I'll get another few in short order. :-)
Platurnus, here I come!
NS_CHROME54
18-08-04, 06:02
Platurnus, here I come!
;)
yeah i it really sux, i depend on a speedgat for leveling, having 3 slots and all ammo mods, i also depend on my moveon quite a bit (tho i don't give a rats ass about a pp chip). it really sux to have to lose those, for the moveon especially because there's no heavycombat eye. i can substitute a speedgat with a rav or cs to some extent, but they just aren't as good for closed quarters leveling (chaos caves, swamp caves, el farid). also losing the speedgat means i can only carry 1 good weapon at a time without fear of losing it.
yeah i it really sux, i depend on a speedgat for levelingMy problem is that if I choose to do the epics, I can't put my LE back in without significant effort. I may see if I can drug up to do the epics, then LoM/GR a lot to get my LEs back in. I think I can get 50 or so mainstat points from drugs, so that may be doable.
Maybe. I may just wait and buy the epic items outright like I did last time. We'll see.
lol heres one i just thought which has made me chuckle, if we all BT and PP who will there be to kill for the epic runner kill missions? :P
Anyone moving over from Pluto will have 3 or more account slots free. Right now I'll have nine or more open when I move. That's, like, 60 runners to kill, right there. :-)
Imagine that, two 4 slot speedgats lost..... I'm never buying epics again :-)
that sucks, high level people will have to much stuff and will be too overwhelming to noobs
thats because ur a n00b ? u would say that
im not happy about lossing alot of my rares and hardly being able to take many items or money i worked hard for them to just wipe it all
i think i will sell my accounts on ebay and go play doom 3 its a far better game online then neocack
MeWhiteWolf
18-08-04, 11:39
sell em on ebay?
why not right here what u want 4 em?
there are those of us who's thoughts of leaving have been stopped by this news and the sudden returning interest in the community from KK.
perhaps we or even a noob may be interested...
enigma_b17
18-08-04, 12:43
sell em on ebay?
why not right here what u want 4 em?
bcause kk dont authorise the selling of accounts on these forums :P
Anyone moving over from Pluto will have 3 or more account slots free. Right now I'll have nine or more open when I move. That's, like, 60 runners to kill, right there. :-)
60 :confused:
@Spoek: I feel my IQ rising just from reading that post :) Very nice, and I do
agree, fairness needs to be enforced to a certain extent.
jerrymaguire
18-08-04, 19:18
I have not read all the replies to update no.2. I just want to say that I appalud the info we have been given. It answers alot, and raises little.
WELL DONE :)
In order to amend a past post: I don't think that KK lied to us. I retract the statement in an earlier thread where I said KK lied to us. It was an emotional knee-jerk reaction and I apologise profusly.
I am still unhappy about loosing all my epic items. I hope that our faction sympathies will be reset when the char is placed in the NC2 server. (Read this as a question...;)
Will I be able to transfer the Dildo of Mavern from NC to NC2?
Will I be able to transfer the Dildo of Mavern from NC to NC2?
That's just too tempting to respond to. :p
Crackitakk
19-08-04, 04:53
Ah, im so glad im completely useless without moveon, pfff
not trying to complain or anything...i mite actually lom to rifle and be like a rifle kamikazi spy! that sounds good!
Hmm ....
Epic items point of view ...
Since I have done what was termed the Official epics, all 7 of them, got master status in all the home grown NC based factions. Some items I use (MOVEON, PP, Rev) some I used to as leveling (Laser Cannon) and some i have never even been in (DRE Hole In Ground).
KK never always made promises of PALADIN, had they ever hinted that it was an effort wasted, I would have not done half of them.
So No I am not happy working my but, spending time on something that will be lost. Let guys take there weapons / chips with them. Even if they are not available in DOY, that way the could be rare items .... Like Kami's and Spirit Mods......
Another Question, whats the faction setup ... is it City Vs Non City or does BD still have firends with TT, while Enemy to TG ... Me wonders ....
And my last question...
Enters DOY and Clasic, Since I have 8 Chars (4 Saturn, 4 uranus) they go to this database, I only want to play Classic, does that mean I transfer 4 chars from this databse to classic... or how does this work, wwith 8 chars ...
So now I got the chars on classic and do some hunting and stuff ... how does the transfer there go ... I will get a few things on classic, do the new items on classic go with me to DOY or is it a quick belt thingy again .... Say i do the epic on classic, does this mean I have to do loose my toy again if going from classic to NC ?
People that decide to play classic are gonna lose everything anyway.
I can't imagine someone choosing to transfer their stuff to a server that will be lost in say a year or so. Can't imagine KK doing much for that server when they have to work on NC2 and it's servers and ballancing etc...
People that decide to play classic are gonna lose everything anyway.
I can't imagine someone choosing to transfer their stuff to a server that will be lost in say a year or so. Can't imagine KK doing much for that server when they have to work on NC2 and it's servers and ballancing etc...
Except for the fact that
1) Some Friends are in South Africa, where internet connection revlove around 64K ISDN or 56K modems or a lot of cash for something better ... No way they gonna be getting NC2 on the shelves, mail order take for ever (even from KK,) since postal service sucks...
2) Wait for feedback from NC2 comunity
3) Find out whats happening with extra servers.
4) If NC2 is not what they said it would be we can play something else ... I hear MMORPG Scrabble is cool, buy houses and kep them :)
Since I can transfer to NC2 at anytime ... these are valid reasons... Not everyone is going to make the jump on day 1, and we will hold back for these reasons
I'm gonna be waiting for a couple of days, untill i can get some info on voicecoms or forum what it's like.
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