View Full Version : KK wtf...
tomparadox
14-08-04, 18:58
what the hell is up with this new price of 15$ a month? this is bull, i meen we already half to pay for the damn acc upgrades witch we wernt suposed to half to do, then your going to whipe almost all of the damn items and money, all this after delaying the game like 3 or 4 times? then tell us we half to pay 15$ a month insted of 10? WTF?
Underground
14-08-04, 19:03
Bend over..........
3rd account tomolak ? :p
It's for better servers apparently. Read the plan file.
tomparadox
14-08-04, 19:06
It's for better servers apparently.
so? screw there better servers, they probly still suck.
so? screw there better servers, they probly still suck.
Total ignorance.
sanityislost
14-08-04, 19:08
im chilled with the price uppage.....just wana get the game now lol
SiL ..:..
benjie some people cant afford price hikes, just because you can doesnt mean everyone can and hes probably right if KK fail to keep proper maintenance on their new servers like they did on the old ones.
Shadow Dancer
14-08-04, 19:10
i've paid for some single player games in the past that were 50$. 1 month of NC gives me much more playtime than any single player game has ever given me in a month, with the exception of Baldur's Gate 2. You're complaining about a measly 15$ a month?
benjie some people cant afford price hikes, just because you can doesnt mean everyone can and hes probably right if KK fail to keep proper maintenance on their new servers like they did on the old ones.
Neocron used to be dirt cheap, and now KK are asking a normal price. What is there to complain about? Just be happy it was cheap for as long as it was.
He's probabally wrong. Better servers=better servers.
Personal i have nothing against it. I Just hope they fix the lags and so one now they have more money to buy better hardware.
3rd account tomolak ? :p
what?
who?
Just be happy it was cheap for as long as it was.
hahahah Just be happy we kept paying cash into KK pocket while be told constantly that BDOY would be here soon and it would be free and it would turn lead into gold. Just be happy they didn't decide to ass fuck us earlier for more cash. Just be happy they are charging 5 bucks more for some slightly upgraded server hardware (and as everyone knows, hardware is basically free) and a crapppy DB with known stability issues. Just be happy they will continue to take our money and not both to get a full time database administrator.
just be happy, KK is awesome.
This moderate price increase is due to the much improved server technology among other things.
Other things...
hahahah Just be happy we kept paying cash into KK pocket while be told constantly that BDOY would be here soon and it would be free and it would turn lead into gold. Just be happy they didn't decide to ass fuck us earlier for more cash. Just be happy they are charging 5 bucks more for some slightly upgraded server hardware (and as everyone knows, hardware is basically free) and a crapppy DB with known stability issues. Just be happy they will continue to take our money and not both to get a full time database administrator.
just be happy, KK is awesome.
You don't have to play Neocron you know. Besides there are reasons why DoY took as long as it did (CDV, publisher, company alliances, development), and there are reasons why it's costing us money (more content, announced publisher demands).
tomparadox
14-08-04, 19:34
hahahah Just be happy we kept paying cash into KK pocket while be told constantly that BDOY would be here soon and it would be free and it would turn lead into gold. Just be happy they didn't decide to ass fuck us earlier for more cash. Just be happy they are charging 5 bucks more for some slightly upgraded server hardware (and as everyone knows, hardware is basically free) and a crapppy DB with known stability issues. Just be happy they will continue to take our money and not both to get a full time database administrator.
just be happy, KK is awesome.
i agree, benjie give it up. I and a lot of other people are sick of this bull shit. constant lies all the time.
You don't have to play Neocron you know. Besides there are reasons why DoY took as long as it did (CDV, publisher, company alliances, development), and there are reasons why it's costing us money (more content, announced publisher demands).
No, KK needs us, without the customer KK is nuthing because they whont get money. Reasons? more content? a new city, some upgraded gfx witch i have yet to see a screen shot of, and hacknet? more guns and some other crap like cap raise? comeone and you honestly think thats worth all this other bullshit wev had to put up with?
I dont have anything against the new price if Neocron 2 will have:
No crashes (or at least minimal, in minimal I dont mean one crash every 4th hour)/long synchs.
Alot more players.
More server stability and less servers.
More content.
tomparadox
14-08-04, 19:35
I dont have anything against the new price if Neocron 2 will have:
No crashes (or at least minimal, in minimal I dont mean one crash every 4th hour)/long synchs.
Alot more players.
More server stability and less servers.
More content.
some of us cant pull money out of our ass like a magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat...
i agree, benjie give it up. I and a lot of other people are sick of this bull shit. constant lies all the time.
No, KK needs us, without the customer KK is nuthing because they whont get money. Reasons? more content? a new city, some upgraded gfx witch i have yet to see a screen shot of, and hacknet? more guns and some other crap like cap raise? comeone and you honestly think thats worth all this other bullshit wev had to put up with?
Pissed at them? Why give them any money then? In fact, why don't you just leave now if you want to flaunt that attitude.
some of us cant pull money out of our ass like a magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat...
Yeah, there is a little bit Sony in Reakktor isnt it? ;)
Underground
14-08-04, 19:37
some of us cant pull money out of our ass like a magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat...
Are you going to play neocron2 ? Yes/No
If Yes, STFU!
if No, kthanxbai, dont mind the door on the way out k ?
so? screw there better servers, they probly still suck.
lol biatching is the root of all evil
or at least really annoying
Both you who think this all and who doesn't think it sucks, suck.
Why are both of you fighting eachother? Why the fuck aren't you working together on better suggestions?
Jesus, go ask your mommy to feed you, childish punks.
benjie give it up. I and a lot of other people are sick of this bull shit. constant lies all the time.
*Gives up*
If you want to believe that Reakktor are lying to you, and that CDV are not asshole publishers who destroy all games in there path, that DoY is exactly the same product as Neocron 2 even though DoY was origionaly going to be a four zone city, and Neocron II has a brand spanking new engine which hardly ever fatals and gives players optimal fps and better graphics. If you want to deniy that 10tacel are better at fianance than both you and the whole of Reakktor combined, and if you want to deniy that Big Ben, who published DaoC are any better than CDV, then go ahead. LIES! ALL LIES!!!!
Ooh somebody should put that in there siggy!
Actually, as a matter of fact, if any one can prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that KK are liars/screwing us over etc without justification, WITHOUT resorting to this delay bullshit, I'll change my name to one decided by that person.
tomparadox
14-08-04, 19:43
*Gives up*
If you want to believe that Reakktor are lying to you, and that CDV are not asshole publishers who destroy all games in there path, that DoY is exactly the same product as Neocron 2 even though DoY was origionaly going to be a four zone city, and Neocron II has a brand spanking new engine which hardly ever fatals and gives players optimal fps and better graphics. If you want to deniy that 10tacel are better at fianance than both you and the whole of Reakktor combined, and if you want to deniy that Big Ben, who published DaoC are any better than CDV, then go ahead. LIES! ALL LIES!!!!
were the hell did i say CDV dident suck? they did suck, when did i say the engine wasent good? when did i say its a bad thing that theres a new engine that hardly fatles? i said iv never seen a pic of the new gfx yet.
Think of it this way, KK knew CDV sucked so why the hell did they promise free account upgrades before they knew the publisher they would be useing would agree? thats one reason that screwed them over with alot of people is because they promised something before they knew for sure they could give it.
I wil deside wether i stay or not depending on the open beta...
u know thing im tired of is peops on this forum acting like children and biathcing all the time and flaming not so much they have ideas and wast this or that more the way they come off OMG LIESLIES KK GRRRR if some of these would try to make valid points or whatnot peops (i included) might not think they where total morons :)
Aziraphale
14-08-04, 19:47
*Gives up*
If you want to believe that Reakktor are lying to you, and that CDV are not asshole publishers who destroy all games in there path, that DoY is exactly the same product as Neocron 2 even though DoY was origionaly going to be a four zone city, and Neocron II has a brand spanking new engine which hardly ever fatals and gives players optimal fps and better graphics. If you want to deniy that 10tacel are better at fianance than both you and the whole of Reakktor combined, and if you want to deniy that Big Ben, who published DaoC are any better than CDV, then go ahead. LIES! ALL LIES!!!!
Ooh somebody should put that in there siggy!
I would if it weren't so darn big =/
Think of it this way, KK knew CDV sucked so why the hell did they promise free account upgrades before they knew the publisher they would be useing would agree?
Because signing a publishing deal requires effort on both sides. While it was origionally Reakktors goal to freely give away Neocron 2 as a kind of christmas present, Big Ben requested that they charge for it as part of the signing agreement and add more content to the game.
I would if it weren't so darn big =/
If you want to believe that Reakktor are lying to you, and that CDV are not an asshole publishing company who destroy all games in there path, that DoY is exactly the same product as Neocron II even though DoY was originally going to be a four zone city, and Neocron II has a brand spanking new engine which hardly ever fatals and gives players optimal fps and better graphics. If you want to deny that 10tacel are better at finance than both you and the whole of Reakktor combined, and if you want to deny that Big Ben, who published DaoC are any better than CDV, then go ahead. LIES! ALL LIES!!!!
All i have to say is they better fucking deliver...
It's simple really.
Actions speak louder than words.
All i have to say is they better fucking deliver...
No problem there then, Amazon or Game will send it by first class, next day delivery guaranteed!
No problem there then, Amazon or Game will send it by first class, next day delivery guaranteed!
ROFL:p
The fact is that there are people on minimum wage or are unemployed or are full-time students who play this game so money is tight for them and the price increase along with the upgrade fee is a good bit out of their pockets, if I was arsed upgrading the money wouldnt bother me that much but I can see it from other peoples perspective which alot of people on this forums either cannot do or refuse to do.
All i have to say is they better fucking deliver
yupyup
i remeber nc back a year ago when there was lots of peops and it was SO DAMN FUN
i hope and belive KK will make it that way again only better :)
./prays
The fact is that there are people on minimum wage or are unemployed or are full-time students who play this game so money is tight for them and the price increase along with the upgrade fee is a good bit out of their pockets, if I was arsed upgrading the money wouldnt bother me that much but I can see it from other peoples perspective which alot of people on this forums either cannot do or refuse to do.
IIRC, you get one month free and an open beta. If you think it's worth the dough, bake the bread. Otherwise, leave the bakery. :cool:
The fact is that there are people on minimum wage or are unemployed or are full-time students who play this game
Then they should sort their priorities out. PC gaming is not a cheap hobby. One graphics card will set you back about 10 months worth of neocron play time.
My wage isn't outstanding, but I still manage to pay for 5 accounts (planning on 2 to begin with for NC2). If I couldn't afford to pay I wouldn't be paying...it's not like KK have some duty to provide NC2 at a price that screws themselves over.
Total ignorance.Pot ,meet kettle.
No problem there then, Amazon or Game will send it by first class, next day delivery guaranteed!No they won't.
Vid Gamer - what makes you think they asked him to write that nonsense?
Vid Gamer - what makes you think they asked him to write that nonsense?
They dont need to ask him, hes programmed himself to do it automatically.
Any more personal attacks and this thread is gone.
N
Shadow Dancer
14-08-04, 21:02
[ edited ]
Its more likely the new publisher is pushing for the price upping, not KK.
Its more likely the new publisher is pushing for the price upping, not KK.
This is correct, I read it in the announcment sticky ages ago when they first told us.
Pot ,meet kettle.
Hardly. I do know what I am talking about, you know.
[OT]Scrap Brain (http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/sega/master/Sonic_ScrapBrain.mid)
This is correct, I read it in the announcment sticky ages ago when they first told us.
This is speculation. It may well have a gem of truth to it but you have no way to know and should not pretend you do.
Hardly. I do know what I am talking about, you know.
I don't think you do and I'll quote this as evidence :
DoY was origionaly going to be a four zone city
I don't think you do and I'll quote this as evidence :
Dome of York was originally going to be a single city, much smaller than Neocron, certainly much smaller than it is now. I am correct in that statement.
What I said about big Ben was also not speculation. It was announced that the publishers wanted to charge for BDoY.
I could spend a while digging up quotes, but I really don't give a shit. You can pretend that your right if you want to. Whatever makes you happy.
Dome of York was originally going to be a single city, much smaller than Neocron, certainly much smaller than it is now. I am correct in that statement.
I could spend a while digging up quotes, but I really don't give a shit. You can pretend that your right if you want to.Actually they never said how big it would be - they did say something along the lines of "several wasteland sectors, new dungeons and a city comparable to NC". I would quote it exactly but the forum archive stops long after that date which in itself speaks volumes.
In fact as many things that have been promised would be in DoY are now absent as are now present. Many of it's biggest selling points we were promised would be here before the expansion.
Actually they never said how big it would be - they did say something along the lines of "several wasteland sectors, new dungeons and a city comparable to NC". I would quote it exactly but the forum archive stops long after that date which in itself speaks volumes.
In fact as many things that have been promised would be in DoY are now absent as are now present. Many of it's biggest selling points we were promised would be here before the expansion.
Bleh. Things come as they come. Your mostly right, even though they did announce that DoY would be much smaller. I honestly don't see how people can become so stressed that the turn of events ended up as they did. There are several unfortunate broken promises (not lies), and everything has a legit reason for the change. Tekktonics is a gimped engine, and Reakktor were a gimped company prior to Neocron, therefore there never will be the level of compitence Sony can provide in Neocron, and I just accept that because it can't be any other way. Finance is a real issue that we don't have to worry about, kk are made up of a small amount of programmers and mappers, and to be totally honest compared to masters like John Cormack and the Valve guys, I don't think there amazingly skillfull. I just think that they love Neocron and do the best that they can given there massive limitations. I refuse to bitch, whine, flame, diss, and spit at them for that. At the end of the day, concept and gameplay wise Neocron kicks a lot of ass. Yeah it sucks that Reakktor arn't Sony/Microsoft/ID/Blizzard, but what are you going to do about it? Whine and piss on the forums untill you get banned and start pulling your hair out? Create useless threads questioning ideals that can never be reached? Those won't achieve anything. The only thing you can do is accept that what happens happens, and if it sucks it's unfortunate. Remember that nobody enjoys screwing you over, and there is always a legit reason for everything that happens, be it finiance and manpower (otherwise known as lazyness on these forums) or hardware and company limitations.
Shadow Dancer
14-08-04, 22:33
It was announced that the publishers wanted to charge for BDoY.
Yes, charge for BDOY not increase the monthly fee.
Remember that nobody enjoys screwing you over, and there is always a legit reason for everything that happens.
You might want to re-think that as you go through life.
You might want to re-think that as you go through life.
I've been independant for three years, I was homeless for almost a month and I lived in a drug house for over half a year. I know! I was refering to Reakktor. They arn't secretly working out ways to screw you over, unfortunate things happen in buisness.
Yes, charge for BDOY not increase the monthly fee.
Choose.
Unexpensive old fashioned subscription free along with unreliable old fashioned servers.
Modern servers along with a modern price.
BDoY was never going to be "much" smaller thatn NC. Not even when it was first mentioned during beta.
KK have both failed to meet promises and lied. If you can't see that then you are blind, illiterate or dim. As for the reasons why, that's up to individuals as to whether they agree or not. In some cases I do and in some I don't - the reason no-one listens to you Benjie is that you accept them all without question.
NC2 still uses the Tektonic engine, they have just optimised it for DX9. I have no idea what you mean by "Reakktor were a gimped company prior to Neocron".
If you are happy to pay SoE type money why don't you expect SoE QoS?
"concept and gameplay wise Neocron kicks a lot of ass" - on this part I agree but that doesn't grant the company carte blanche to fuck over it's customers.
As far as "whining and bitching" - KK clearly do respond to exactly that, so why do you think people do it? Personally I wish they would engage in pro-active dialogue with their customers and it's their inability to do this that causes most of their problems. More fool them, it's not like this hasn't been obvious since retail.
Shadow Dancer
14-08-04, 22:37
You might want to re-think that as you go through life.
Amen!
Choose.
Unexpensive old fashioned subscription free along with unreliable old fashioned servers.
Modern servers along with a modern price.
I'm not talking about whether it's ok or not, I'm saying that you're mistaken about publishers being the ones who wanted an upped monthly fee a while back.
some of us cant pull money out of our ass like a magician pulls a rabbit out of his hat...
And not everyone gets to buy a plasma TV when it comes out, however...
If you can't spare a couple extra bucks then you should probably rethink spending money on a game because your financial situation is seriously grim.
Some suggestions?
1) Stop buying drugs/alcohol/cigarettes
2) Stop eating out or getting fast food
3) Stop spending money on tons of useless crap unless you can afford it
Choose.
Unexpensive old fashioned subscription free along with unreliable old fashioned servers.
Modern servers along with a modern price.
Please show me the KK accounts that prove those are the only options and that no compromise exists.
From a business POV I would say if this really is KK's only choice then they are in extreme financial distress.
3) Stop spending money on tons of useless crap unless you can afford it
IE Neocron. :p
Richard Slade
14-08-04, 22:46
Let's do a quick checkup here:
I got about $500 in every month
With this I got an apartment and all that comes with that (water, telephone, food, internet and so on)
I also got a cat and I smoke...
Still I manage and feel quite spoiled since I always have an assload of money over at the end of the month
I don't play cuz of the cost, but cuz I love the game, even at $20 I'd play.
KK have both failed to meet promises and lied.
KK have been subject to all kinds of forces both external and internal since the concept of the DOY addon was first announced. It was originally just a few maps of another city (described as being smaller than NC) but NC2 is far more than that whether you choose to accept it or not. Yes they have made statements that for one reason or another never came to pass, but to say that they knew them to be false when they were made is faintly ridiculous. Could they have predicted the 10tacle partnership? Could they have predicted their publishing arrangements? Calling KK liars is a cheap, throwaway remark that I would not expect from you.
N
A deception is a lie.
A deliberate ommision is a lie.
Do you deny KK ever did either of those?
TheGreatMilenko
14-08-04, 22:51
KK have been subject to all kinds of forces both external and internal since the concept of the DOY addon was first announced. It was originally just a few maps of another city (described as being smaller than NC) but NC2 is far more than that whether you choose to accept it or not. Yes they have made statements that for one reason or another never came to pass, but to say that they knew them to be false when they were made is faintly ridiculous. Could they have predicted the 10tacle partnership? Could they have predicted their publishing arrangements? Calling KK liars is a cheap, throwaway remark that I would not expect from you.
N
well they havent given us answers to anything or heared a response to bugs being fixed except the stupid mail that it will be fixed next patch (which it never does)
they are a poor company that treats customers like shit
A deception is a lie.
A deliberate ommision is a lie.
Do you deny KK ever did either of those?
Can you prove it? NO. SHUT
THE
HELL
UP.
Nid or anyone, please close this melting pot of the ignorant. I'm sorry for anyone that made a valid contribution, I'm also sorry that benj is getting slated for being the messanger.
Peace.
A deception is a lie.
A deliberate ommision is a lie.
Do you deny KK ever did either of those?
To be a lie the originator has to be aware that it is a lie at the time the statement is made - therefore making an omission would not be a lie.
Provide proof of your above two examples please.
Yes on many counts.
Most recently - "no character wipe" followed by weeks of silence as we ask repeatedly what exactly that means.
/edit - Want more? How about numerous critical dates where delays were only announced on the last day, last minute or even several days after deadlines had past. If they aren't lies of ommision then they are the most incompetant company on the planet.
A deliberate ommision is a lie. Shall I accuse you of lying or shall I just say that this statement is untrue? ;) KK may or may not choose to withhold information for a variety of perfectly good reasons (e.g. they may affect ongoing negotiations with partners or publishers). A lie is a false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood. Do I deny that KK have deliberately presented false information? Absolutely.
N
Yes on many counts.
Most recently - "no character wipe" followed by weeks of silence as we ask repeatedly what exactly that means.
Quotes please, I'd like evidence. Also maybe niddy can't answer some of those questions, where he to do so, and end p being wrong, he could lose his job for spreading false info.
Why ruin other people just because your precious game is delayed? Get a new hobby. I'd love to get some idea of your age mate, because you're acting like a kid.
Just drop it already.
Mighty Max
14-08-04, 23:04
Personally I wish they would engage in pro-active dialogue with their customers and it's their inability to do this that causes most of their problems.
Infact i think the reason is burried beneath there. More then that. I believe that if KK wouldnt ever talk to you beside simply informing you AFTER anything was changed by some official words, would only have IGN to handle some kind of forum, ppl wouldnt moan that much.
Why do i think that?
- The info you are given before is always at the risk to be changed nomatter who sias it or why it is said.
- Discussing things with ppl rather then only stating "That is how it is now" will always meet someone who thinks he knws better, he starts to shout out and find others thinking it, even if it would be pure BS
- Customers discussing on the official board allways tend to scoop up their feelings to more power, may it be their expectations raise only by their discussion between them, or their moans. Nothing of both is a good thing
- After it is discussed thousands of time noone knows who really told that one detail. By default it is the company then.
You know why many say in other games they wouldnt tell lies that much ? I can tell ya, because they dont inform you on anything, but when it is to late. They dont allow you to do anything, except it is approved from above.
Infact i feel that some ppl cant different between weakness and beeing open for ideas and changes.
Yes on many counts.
Most recently - "no character wipe" followed by weeks of silence as we ask repeatedly what exactly that means.
/edit - Want more? How about numerous critical dates where delays were only announced on the last day, last minute or even several days after deadlines had past. If they aren't lies of ommision then they are the most incompetant company on the planet.
They're called compilation problems, other more important commitments, bugs, crashes hardware problems, Binding agreements with publishers, and much more. Are you honestly going to attack every company that didn't meet a deadline? Prepare to take on 2/3rds of the industry.
Gevrik Halfdead
14-08-04, 23:04
Yes on many counts.
Most recently - "no character wipe" followed by weeks of silence as we ask repeatedly what exactly that means.
/edit - Want more? How about numerous critical dates where delays were only announced on the last day, last minute or even several days after deadlines had past. If they aren't lies of ommision then they are the most incompetant company on the planet.
Try to run your own one and make it better, then you have the right to talk, in the meantime, look up the definition of 'lie' in the dictionary please.
/closed
Shall I accuse you of lying or shall I just say that this statement is untrue? ;) KK may or may not choose to withhold information for a variety of perfectly good reasons (e.g. they may affect ongoing negotiations with partners or publishers). A lie is a false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood. Do I deny that KK have deliberately presented false information? Absolutely.
N
It's accurate in a UK court of law.
Do you believe a silence deliberately designed to decieve is not a deception?
You are being more naive than I would have ever thought you if you think KK have behaved acceptably throughout the time you have known them.
Neocron used to be dirt cheap, and now KK are asking a normal price. What is there to complain about? Just be happy it was cheap for as long as it was.
He's probabally wrong. Better servers=better servers.
excuse me but paying per month for a game is cirtainly wrong!
and even asking for cash to even buy the game program itself is out of order!
dont even say that this was cheap!
Quotes please, I'd like evidence. Also maybe niddy can't answer some of those questions, where he to do so, and end p being wrong, he could lose his job for spreading false info.
Why ruin other people just because your precious game is delayed? Get a new hobby. I'd love to get some idea of your age mate, because you're acting like a kid.
Just drop it already.
I'm 29 and have spent most of my adult life working for a living. I have dealt with almost every size and type of company you could mention all over the world and KK are one of the most disorganised and/or disrespectful I've ever seen.
FYI - The delay doesn't bother me. I only quoted an example as you asked for one.
Ozambabbaz
14-08-04, 23:11
where's the 50% fee increase posted officially? i think i missed it
Are you honestly going to attack every company that didn't meet a deadline? Prepare to take on 2/3rds of the industry.
No and if you bother to look back at the many previous cases of KK missing deadlines you'll find I didn't explode like so many others did.
As I said above - the delay doesn't bother me, in fact I expected it.
why dont u all just shut up and either quit or wait for doy GOD a bigger bunch of whinors and biatchors i have never seen
I'm 29 and have spent most of my adult life working for a living. I have dealt with almost every size and type of company you could mention all over the world and KK are one of the most disorganised and/or disrespectful I've ever seen.
FYI - The delay doesn't bother me. I only quoted an example as you asked for one.
There was no quote though, just a statement from you. Gimme a quote.
As for the Bold - yeah, spank the student.
But i ask you this - if KKs demeanour is really that bad, why are you still here?
It's accurate in a UK court of law.
Do you believe a silence deliberately designed to decieve is not a deception?
You are being more naive than I would have ever thought you if you think KK have behaved acceptably throughout the time you have known them.
The bold bit is slanderous - In a UK court of law I believe. ;)
Richard Slade
14-08-04, 23:18
I'm 29 and have spent most of my adult life working for a living. I have dealt with almost every size and type of company you could mention all over the world and KK are one of the most disorganised and/or disrespectful I've ever seen.
lol, you haven't seen much, I can tell you that.
Either that, or you're being very ignorant to the fact that some things are held behind closed doors,
it's not like you have the right to demand the recipe for Coke just because you drink it... Or maybe i' wrong?
Shadow Dancer
14-08-04, 23:18
Most recently - "no character wipe" followed by weeks of silence as we ask repeatedly what exactly that means.
But there is no character wipe.
Casius, no one if forcing you to click the thread. :)
QuantumDelta
14-08-04, 23:19
Erm.
Nobby;
Please, I know you're young, but try to see things a little more sensibly.
You do not have to pay that cash, if you do not wish to be here.
That cash, has most likely prevented you from buying several other games.
I've been here since a month or two before my sign up date on the forum IIRC.
--
Know what?
I've probably spent less on other games than Neocron.
Before you misunderstand what I mean by this:
Neocron, has kept me entertained, and kept my attention to a high degree for several months, thus, my interest in other games had dwindled massively.
Although I have spent a fairly substantial amount of subscription on Neocron.
I would probably have spent more, on other games, had I not been playing Neocron.
Do you understand?
This is the only sane concept on which you can subscribe to an MMORPG when you look at it financially.
--
If you want to look at it another way:
Why do you 'rent' films? -- Because that's what you do here.
Rent Neocron.
Near enough.
Why do you pay subscription costs to magazines?
Because it's cheaper than buying them individually.
Why do you pay monthly subscriptions to your ISP?
Because they are providing you a service.
Surely you can understand how neocron fits into these?
Same as many other MMORPGs.
There is nothing wrong in pay to play. You pay 50e to buy doom 3 and you dont have to pay for it every month, but it wont change a bit. Or you can buy NC, pay 12e/month for it and it will change every month you pay for it. Plus you will have other ppl to play with.
So quit whining, you dont have to play NC2 if you cant afford it, or you can get a job and play it.
[ edited ]
lol tks for showing my point
i really hope this forums wont be this way when nc2 comes, it will scare away all the potential n00bies
There was no quote though, just a statement from you. Gimme a quote.
You need a quote for the no character wipe thing - sure I'll go look. It's hardly like it didn't start off this whole debate a month ago though :rolleyes:
But i ask you this - if KKs demeanour is really that bad, why are you still here?
I'll be gone when my subs run out.
The bold bit is slanderous - In a UK court of law I believe. ;)
No. Slander is spoken defamation. Withholding information is illegal in the UK under many circumstances, most clearly when you are standing in a court - hence my comment.
You need a quote for the no character wipe thing - sure I'll go look. It's hardly like it didn't start off this whole debate a month ago though :rolleyes:
I'll be gone when my subs run out.
No. Slander is spoken defamation. Withholding information is illegal in the UK under many circumstances, most clearly when you are standing in a court - hence my comment.
1st quote - thank you - thats all i asked for.
2nd - shame you won't stay for open beta but your loss.
3rd - Go ask Marks and spencer for thier payroll will ya?
@jernau
The whole itemwhipe thinky started when KK said they wont wipe the chars. They did not lie, its your fecking stupid "item wipe" posts that made you think KK actually said something about wiping the items. As long as I remember they have not "lied" to us a single time, they have said that "we are trying to bring the DoY out in September 2003" but they have never said that "DoY WILL BE out in September 2003", you get my point?
ok mate look sorry just a bit pissed off because of the item wipe.
QuantumDelta
14-08-04, 23:32
3rd - Go ask Marks and spencer for thier payroll will ya?
Funny you should say that.
I actually have the power to do that o_O
Though I wouldn't have the right to share it with you.
Funny you should say that.
I actually have the power to do that o_O
Though I wouldn't have the right to share it with you.
:lol:
It's accurate in a UK court of law.
Do you believe a silence deliberately designed to decieve is not a deception?
You are being more naive than I would have ever thought you if you think KK have behaved acceptably throughout the time you have known them.
lol I don't believe they are perfect by any stretch. ;) I'm just refuting the accusation that they have deliberately set out to deceive. On the subject of silence, during those silences decisions are being made, argued and remade - this latest plan file is a perfect case in point.
N
ok mate look sorry just a bit pissed off because of the item wipe.
I understand that :) BTW hows the Uranus construction clubs? Have you found any?
its your fecking stupid "item wipe" posts that made you think KK actually said something about wiping the items.
Please enlighten me as to what you are referring.
As long as I remember they have not "lied" to us a single time, they have said that "we are trying to bring the DoY out in September 2003" but they have never said that "DoY WILL BE out in September 2003", you get my point?
DoY was first set for late 2002/early 2003 - I'm sure someone has the right month but I can't recall exactly.
As I keep saying the dates themselves are irrelevant to me, especially now.
@Spermy - I fail to see any connection to M&S other than management competance levels.
QuantumDelta
14-08-04, 23:40
though I know that it's not a real foundation to his argument;
He was mentioning in terms of M&S would tell you to eff off :p
Actually, KK specifically stated that DOY would be released on September 1st and this release date has not been met. Does that mean that KK knew when they made that statement that they would miss that date (i.e. lied)? Nope.
N
though I know that it's not a real foundation to his argument;
He was mentioning in terms of M&S would tell you to eff off :p
Indeed but as it's a bad analogy I responded as best I could ;).
Please enlighten me as to what you are referring.
Im referring to those 30 topics of itemwhipe hype. It all started when some bright guy thought "Hey, they only said that they wont whipe the chars, then they are whiping the items and money!1!!"
Indeed but as it's a bad analogy I responded as best I could ;).
I suppose so, what I meant was they are witholding info too.
Actually, KK specifically stated that DOY would be released on September 1st and this release date has not been met. Does that mean that KK knew when they made that statement that they would miss that date (i.e. lied)? Nope.
NNot at the time they made it.
However when they made the comment about character retention I am sure they knew more than they let on and that they deliberately worded that announcement (still looking spermy - you could help Nid ;)) to make people renew subscriptions as long as possible knowing that complete disclosure would cause the upset it has.
/edit - @endar : Ah OK, I thought you meant thread I personally had started. Are you surprised then that people were concerned. We were after all proved right weren't we.
I've been independant for three years, I was homeless for almost a month and I lived in a drug house for over half a year. I know! I was refering to Reakktor.
hahahaha
tomparadox
14-08-04, 23:56
Can you prove it? NO. SHUT
THE
HELL
UP.
Nid or anyone, please close this melting pot of the ignorant. I'm sorry for anyone that made a valid contribution, I'm also sorry that benj is getting slated for being the messanger.
Peace.
U aint all that and a bag of chips, untill you are dont tell people to shut up, or tell someone to close my thred because they whont.
Actually, KK specifically stated that DOY would be released on September 1st and this release date has not been met. Does that mean that KK knew when they made that statement that they would miss that date (i.e. lied)? Nope.
N
Heres one of my points, they dident know they would miss it, nor did they know they would hit it, so why the hell did they say "would be released" - that makes it sound like they are saying it *will* be relesed september first, then everyone will think its comeing out sept 1st. Why dident they say sometime in the month of september or the following month.? then people cant hit you with the "You missed the relese date" stuff...
Vampire222
14-08-04, 23:57
Agree with nidhogg, and don't really care "when" anymore, aslong as it's high quality at release.. rather see a perfect doy in a few months, than one thats been overhasted... back to the original subject, why do people really have that much problems paying $5 (or 5 euro, whatever it is) more a month, that is, if that assures us that the doy servers will run smoothly, and that kk actively adds and improves... hell id even pay 10 a month more for that
However when they made the comment about character retention I am sure they knew more than they let on and that they deliberately worded that announcement (still looking spermy - you could help Nid ;)) to make people renew subscriptions as long as possible knowing that complete disclosure would cause the upset it has.
As I hinted earlier, no, they didn't know. In fact the news in the plan file was in flux right up until release. You say they did it to dupe people into renewing their subscription but, seriously, when most people renew in 3 or 6 month chunks, how many people do you really think we're talking about here? It's negligible and certainly not something that's going to have a big impact with DOY just around the corner.
N
tomparadox
15-08-04, 00:02
Agree with nidhogg, and don't really care "when" anymore, aslong as it's high quality at release.. rather see a perfect doy in a few months, than one thats been overhasted... back to the original subject, why do people really have that much problems paying $5 (or 5 euro, whatever it is) more a month, that is, if that assures us that the doy servers will run smoothly, and that kk actively adds and improves... hell id even pay 10 a month more for that
I cant pull money out of my ass kthx. I dont have a big problem with it, my problem is im sick of hearing how mutch more this will end up costing, first the account upgrade thing now costing money, then the item whipe witch is makeing all the time iv spent colecting items a wast of time, then now they are saying we half to pay *more* money for it. you do the math, that will start to piss people off if you keep adding more money onto the price of it. it starts to feel like all that useless bullshit they try to throw on your phone bill - theyll keep throwing till a lot of people start to bitch...
Richard Slade
15-08-04, 00:07
I cant pull money out of my ass kthx. I dont have a big problem with it, my problem is im sick of hearing how mutch more this will end up costing, first the account upgrade thing now costing money, then the item whipe witch is makeing all the time iv spent colecting items a wast of time, then now they are saying we half to pay *more* money for it. you do the math, that will start to piss people off if you keep adding more money onto the price of it. it starts to feel like all that useless bullshit they try to throw on your phone bill - theyll keep throwing till a lot of people start to bitch...
Hey, wanna know something fun?
You're still paying less than most other games
And HEY! EVERYTHING costs money so why the big frown on this,
try making a budget instead,
as said I manage my WHOLE life at $500 without a problem and still I'm still more or less able to pull bucksa outta my buttocksa..
kthxbye
Most MMO's are $15 a month now anyway, but the difference between Neocron and other MMO's is that other MMO's warrant the $15 a month while Neocron does not.
NC2 better be above exceptional for me to pay $15 a month for it.
As I hinted earlier, no, they didn't know. In fact the news in the plan file was in flux right up until release. You say they did it to dupe people into renewing their subscription but, seriously, when most people renew in 3 or 6 month chunks, how many people do you really think we're talking about here? It's negligible and certainly not something that's going to have a big impact with DOY just around the corner.
N
Well part of my frustration is becuase two of my three account renewals fell in that period.
I would guess a fair number of people who started on day one of retail fell in the same category.
I stand by what I said - if it's not deception it's incompetance. A large part of this community saw straight through the initial announcement as we have with many before it and yet KK maintained silence until they decided to prove their critics right. This is not good business practice.
Most MMO's are $15 a month now anyway, but the difference between Neocron and other MMO's is that other MMO's warrant the $15 a month while Neocron does not.
NC2 better be above exceptional for me to pay $15 a month for it.
*gets a cookie for hitting the nail on the head* :D
hahahah Just be happy we kept paying cash into KK pocket while be told constantly that BDOY would be here soon and it would be free and it would turn lead into gold. Just be happy they didn't decide to ass fuck us earlier for more cash. Just be happy they are charging 5 bucks more for some slightly upgraded server hardware (and as everyone knows, hardware is basically free) and a crapppy DB with known stability issues. Just be happy they will continue to take our money and not both to get a full time database administrator.
just be happy, KK is awesome.
Damn, your grammar is almost as bad as the threadstarters.
Damn, your grammar is almost as bad as the threadstarters.
And that makes his post less valid?
Richard Slade
15-08-04, 00:23
And that makes his post less valid?
no but less likely to be read if he writes much..
no but less likely to be read if he writes much..
QUIT STALKING ME!!!!!
they deliberately worded that announcement
You can accuse KK of many things, but deliberately worded announcements is not one of them :D
tomparadox
15-08-04, 00:24
Hey, wanna know something fun?
You're still paying less than most other games
And HEY! EVERYTHING costs money so why the big frown on this,
try making a budget instead,
as said I manage my WHOLE life at $500 without a problem and still I'm still more or less able to pull bucksa outta my buttocksa..
kthxbye
oh dont tell me you have problems because if thats it mine way out weighs yours. i aint ganna tell you what my problem is cus its non of your busness quite frankly.
Btw, i also pay for eve acc, and 2 NC accs.
Damn, your grammar is almost as bad as the threadstarters.
congrats youv won the "stupidest fucking post" awared. Dude dont post something pointless, my grammer sucks, i have said it lots of times - live with it.
Most MMO's are $15 a month now anyway, but the difference between Neocron and other MMO's is that other MMO's warrant the $15 a month while Neocron does not.
NC2 better be above exceptional for me to pay $15 a month for it.
Yes, i agree.
Richard Slade
15-08-04, 00:24
But you do like it retr0n, I know you do
Well to be honest... I'm going to bed cos I'm tired. I have problems to sort out myself to whoever posted about thier problems, Like REAL LIFE ! ONOS problems, Like getting my university debt paid of in 4 weeks.
Ciao.
Richard Slade
15-08-04, 00:29
Well to be honest... I'm going to bed cos I'm tired. I have problems to sort out myself to whoever posted about thier problems, Like REAL LIFE ! ONOS problems, Like getting my university debt paid of in 4 weeks.
Ciao.
Nn Spermy,
I'm considering moving my body 90 degrees to
(bed/puter combo roxx)
so later ya'll
(is this counted for as a leaving post?
Nn Spermy,
I'm considering moving my body 90 degrees to
(bed/puter combo roxx)
so later ya'll
(is this counted for as a leaving post?
Yes, yes it is, and your banned.
Nid I said 3 weeks ago sept 1 would definitely be missed, as soon as i heard beta was being delayed for a week i 100% knew doy would be at least 4 weeks late
are you telling me kk didnt know then?
bollox
All i have to say is they better fucking deliver...
Damn right.
Ill wait to see it all with my own eyes, but I think even i'd feel like this if NCII dont deliver the goods.
However when they made the comment about character retention I am sure they knew more than they let on and that they deliberately worded that announcementAny adult living in the real world would have instantly noticed the ambiguity of the character transfer statements and known that something was up.
Any adult who heard rumors about a database with item tracking put two and two together a loooong time ago and realized that NC2 would have little to no support for item transfers. Stats are easy to write down on a piece of paper. Items? Each item needs a uniqute ID, each item needs to be bound to the player, etc. All that is resource intensive.
Each player today will have to wait for Open Beta to see if this newfangled database is worth the loss of our items. If it is, they stay. If it isn't, they leave.
I don't fault KK for being ambigious about the issue (as they are on several other fronts). If they say one thing and don't deliver, they're screwed. If they say nothing, they're screwed. The difference is that if they don't say it, they can't be held accountable for it. That and I think they take a perverse pleasure in pushing the player community's buttons. :-)
More money = better service more staff better game
now plz STFU all other games have had to do this to expand stop whining
Neocron used to be dirt cheap, and now KK are asking a normal price. What is there to complain about? Just be happy it was cheap for as long as it was.
He's probably wrong. Better servers=better servers.
Benjie, watch out.
Just because you managed to slipin to the beta test, it doesnt mean you have to support all of KKs plans. At least if you do, do it more discretely. Your posts are increasingly polarizing... People here express their feelings about this. Its there feelings, they cant be wrong or right...
I wouldnt mind but I cant pay 30 bucks a month. I'm going to get rid of my 2nd account... and so is everyone else in my clan. That means kk is actually going to lose money :\ I wouldnt really care otherwise.
Its there feelings, they cant be wrong or right...
Indeed.
So they need to be shown, that their view is not the only possible. That not everyone has to agree on their opinion.
In the end it even helps the most critics too.
ight I think I've got an idea as to why it's just qbs. DATA ENTRY!
Right My clan has hundreds of rare parts scattered throughout NC. K?
Now imagine having to first find them all on the server - as adata entry fella, and then enter them. It would take forever no?
I think it's mostly down to how long the transfer will take, do you wanna take forever and miss out on 2 weeks or so of game time, or just about 1 minute to enter whats on you QB. Anyone whose ever done a stock take of thier inventory and then entered it into data base will know it takes HOURS! sometimes DAYS!
@ jini But as far as I know, before beta, benj was quite neutral in most things aye? Maybe he's just really impressed.
More money = better service more staff better game
now plz STFU all other games have had to do this to expand stop whiningName one that went from being just about the cheapest on the market to the most expensive.
@Icestorm - I agree it was obvious but can't see how item tracking has any bearing on it. I don't think they'll be using bits of paper to transfer the DB, so there's no difference moving 10 items or 100.
@Jini - It'll be a batch-job. They won't use manual data entry. The time is not an issue. Oh and he's always been like this unfortunately.
ight I think I've got an idea as to why it's just qbs. DATA ENTRY!
Possibly, but I could knock up a script to transfer data between databases very quickly. Depending on the complexity and the database design(s) it would take anything from a few minutes to a couple of days, but once you can transfer one player you can transfer x players.
Unless KK have some wierd system that I don't know about, in which case I imagine they're pointing at me and laughing about now :o
Name one that went from being just about the cheapest on the market to the most expensive.
It may be the most expensive, but that's a relative not an absolute scale. Even as the most expensive it's still dirt cheap relative to other things your money could buy. £8 for a month of play. I spent £12.50 on a pizza last night. £175 got me a new gfx card. My bus ride to work is £1.60 return daily. Doom3 costs £35 and lasts about 5 hours. I refuse to believe you're so hard up for cash that £3 (or $5) extra a month is going to break your bank account. If you enjoy NC2 then it's worth the money, if you don't enjoy NC2 no one is forcing you to pay.
Name one that went from being just about the cheapest on the market to the most expensive.
@Icestorm - I agree it was obvious but can't see how item tracking has any bearing on it. I don't think they'll be using bits of paper to transfer the DB, so there's no difference moving 10 items or 100.
*Points to comment above*
Just my take on it. I was trying to catalogue just the stuff in my clanny yesterday... not fun.
BTW sorry for being standoffish mate. Was all wined up. Also when I see things very clearly, but people have other ideas, it just pisses me off when they have thier own ideas. No ones
ever really going to agree on anything, ast least till we see it ourselves Aye?
EDIT
@ CHUMBLES
http://www.ncraredb.tricin.net/index.php
I used this for rares, and access for my other items. Fields where Item name , owner (in the case of indivdual player items) ID TAG, Condition (xx/xx) Number Charges (if any otherwise N/A- also included rounds alredy in weapons.)
I'm sure if status was reset tho, a few of these fields wuldn't matter. Still, it took me a long time.
I'm sure if status was reset tho, a few of these fields wuldn't matter. Still, it took me a long time.
It took you a long time because you entered it manually. If I recall right that DB has a backup 'dump to file' option. It would be a simple matter to then modify that backup to enter it automatically into another database.
KK will have programs or scripts to transfer the data from the NC to the NC2 database, they won't be typing in each item as they go.
It may be the most expensive, but that's a relative not an absolute scale. Even as the most expensive it's still dirt cheap relative to other things your money could buy. £8 for a month of play. I spent £12.50 on a pizza last night. £175 got me a new gfx card. My bus ride to work is £1.60 return daily. Doom3 costs £35 and lasts about 5 hours. I refuse to believe you're so hard up for cash that £3 (or $5) extra a month is going to break your bank account. If you enjoy NC2 then it's worth the money, if you don't enjoy NC2 no one is forcing you to pay.
Apples and oranges.
I have no doubt at all I would have loved NC2 if KK hadn't done it this way. As it is though this is the last half dozen nails in this game's coffin as far as I'm concened.
It took you a long time because you entered it manually. If I recall right that DB has a backup 'dump to file' option. It would be a simple matter to then modify that backup to enter it automatically into another database.
KK will have programs or scripts to transfer the data from the NC to the NC2 database, they won't be typing in each item as they go.
Aye I see. Well i suppose that makesa sense, the only thing i can see bugging up is if we have multiple appts if we ewanted full transfer, we'd have to define which cabs in which appt, and then they'd have to find them to run that (MACRO?) dump to file. Hmmm.
@KK - WOULD BE NICE IF YOU COULD POSSIBLY EXPLAIN THE TRANSFER METHOD - MAYBE A FEW OF US COULD HELP Y'ALL TWEAK IT A BIT!
Actually, as a matter of fact, if any one can prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that KK are liars/screwing us over etc without justification, WITHOUT resorting to this delay bullshit, I'll change my name to one decided by that person.
Well why bother with any other reasons?. The delays and change from free to $20 per account are the biggest and best examples.
If I have to I can think of a few others. Some of which seem to have slipped past un-noticed.
One example would be back when KK announced they were going to release a trial version of the game on the internet. At about the same time they released the current epic missions in to the game. They apologised for the lack of the anti-city epics but announced that said epics were going to be added at the time of the trial release. Needless to say the trial came and went and close to a year later we are still waiting for the anti-city epics.
Hmm let me think again. Martin himself posted on the forums that he played NC all the time and it never fataled. I guess he had some advanced prototype PC with some super advanced AI on board designed specifically to prevent fatals :lol:
Well why bother with any other reasons?. The delays and change from free to $20 per account are the biggest and best examples.
If I have to I can think of a few others. Some of which seem to have slipped past un-noticed.
One example would be back when KK announced they were going to release a trial version of the game on the internet. At about the same time they released the current epic missions in to the game. They apologised for the lack of the anti-city epics but announced that said epics were going to be added at the time of the trial release. Needless to say the trial came and went and close to a year later we are still waiting for the anti-city epics.
Hmm let me think again. Martin himself posted on the forums that he played NC all the time and it never fataled. I guess he had some advanced prototype PC with some super advanced AI on board designed specifically to prevent fatals :lol:
OKAY 1) What name dude?
2) How can I do it.
:lol:
Clownst0pper
15-08-04, 13:33
Whats your problem? Its still stupidly cheap. £8 a month, and you cant afford that?
You need to reconsider playing games, and mmorpg's full stop.
Apples and oranges.
No, £ and $ :p
I really genuinely wholeheartedly and honestly think you're acting like a child. $5 is not a lot of money. In fact, it's a tiny amont of money. You're writing off the entire game on the basis of KK finally charging a reasonable, but still fairly modest, amount for the service they provide.
I have no doubt at all I would have loved NC2 if KK hadn't done it this way.
What a ridiculous suggestion. Whether you love NC2 or not will have nothing to do with how much they charge you to play it. As I said before, if you don't like it don't play it, but please stop acting like the wounded soldier. You'd think KK had asked you to cough up a lung, not sacrifce a sandwich and a packet of crisps each month for 30 days of sexeh gaming.
As it is though this is the last half dozen nails in this game's coffin as far as I'm concened.
If that was the case you wouldn't still be here carping on about it.
No, £ and $ :p
I really genuinely wholeheartedly and honestly think you're acting like a child. $5 is not a lot of money. In fact, it's a tiny amont of money. You're writing off the entire game on the basis of KK finally charging a reasonable, but still fairly modest, amount for the service they provide.As I have said many many times it's not the actual money that matters it's the shitty treatment of their customers that it is a symptom of. If you can't see that then I doubt I can explain to you why some people expect more, especially after so many years of supporting them against overwhelming odds.
If you want to look at it from a fiscal POV then you need to compare to other games not other expenditures if you want it to mean anything. Can you honestly say KK as a company do a better job than every other MMORPG developer out there? IMO that's the only reason to pay them more money, even 1 cent more.
What a ridiculous suggestion. Whether you love NC2 or not will have nothing to do with how much they charge you to play it. As I said before, if you don't like it don't play it, but please stop acting like the wounded soldier. You'd think KK had asked you to cough up a lung, not sacrifce a sandwich and a packet of crisps each month for 30 days of sexeh gaming.Why are you obsessed with the money? To me that's the least of the many insults in that plan file.
If that was the case you wouldn't still be here carping on about it.The last of my subs run out in December. Until then I have as much right to be here as you do. My departure is more about the company than the game. The game is still great, it's just not worth having to deal with KK to play it anymore.
One example would be back when KK announced they were going to release a trial version of the game on the internet. At about the same time they released the current epic missions in to the game. They apologised for the lack of the anti-city epics but announced that said epics were going to be added at the time of the trial release. Needless to say the trial came and went and close to a year later we are still waiting for the anti-city epics.
Er.. wrong. They said the anti-city epics would come with DoY, because, surprise surprise, seeing as they're all allied to DoY, you have to go to DoY at some point in the epic.
after so many years of supporting them against overwhelming odds.
You haven't been supporting them, you've been paying on a monthly basis to receive a service on a monthly basis.
If you want to look at it from a fiscal POV then you need to compare to other games not other expenditures if you want it to mean anything.
I totally disagree. You have to look at it and compare it to other things you could spend your money on. NC and NC2 are good value for money to me because they provide a lot of enjoyment at a low price. On the otherhand even if SWG was free forever I'd still not play it because I think it's rubbish. It's down to each persons personal preference and circumstances.
Can you honestly say KK as a company do a better job than every other MMORPG developer out there? IMO that's the only reason to pay them more money, even 1 cent more.
No. At times KK are appaling. Some of their design decisions defy understanding. Their customer service varies between excellent and disgraceful. But, and this is a rather huge but, they have created a game I enjoy playing, despite the faults. I wouldn't pay 1 cent, let alone 1 cent more, for a game I didn't enjoy. I would probably pay twice as much for NC2 if I continued to enjoy it.
Why are you obsessed with the money? To me that's the least of the many insults in that plan file.
I'm not particularly, it was just the subject at hand and you kept mentioning it :p
Nothing else in the plan file bothers me much. The partial item wipe scores a good balance between reseting the economy and salvaging effort put into the game. The marketing is all aimed at Germany because it was a plan file about the marketing aimed at Germany.
I'm content. Although I do have helluva toothache. NC2 is going to rock, and I'll be there in the front line when it comes out.
As I have said many many times it's not the actual money that matters it's the shitty treatment of their customers that it is a symptom of. If you can't see that then I doubt I can explain to you why some people expect more, especially after so many years of supporting them against overwhelming odds..Exactly.
Me? I can care less about cool new graphics, care less about new modes of play, can seriously care less about a whole new city. Items? Not my problem at all.
If we continue to be deceived through outright falsehoods or deliberate omissions of information (I see nothing which states "We reserve the right to change things in the game without notice prior to or after the change. Maybe I'm just blind), if the customer service department continues to be... Shit... If the team continues it's lack of communication; if the game continues to be expoitable... Then we'll have exactly the same issues we have now. Hell, lets get realistic. If the game was exploitable now, and this is being made by the same people... What're the chances of it not being exploitable? Would be nice if it wasn't at all, but chances are pretty decent that it will be. Only time will tell I suppose.
What're the two big things that made people leave over the past year?
1) Crappy Customer service
2) Nothing to do aside from "FYTE & B KOOL, LOLOLOLOL"
Both of which could have been remedied seeing as it was certainly complained about enough here on these forums...
But it wasn't.
There is no proof that Reakktor will, with the DoY release, become a loving and attentive company. It is highly doubtable it will happen, and probability points out they'll most likely pull the same shit afterwards.
That is what I worry, and complain about - I don't feel the neccesity of paying extra per month for the same level of crap. Nothing has been stated about it, and I doubt anything will be stated about it. I would love to be proven wrong though.
You haven't been supporting them, you've been paying on a monthly basis to receive a service on a monthly basis.
I've been, and probably will continue supporting them, as well as pay them monthly. I get nothing, nor do I look for anything other than courtesy. (http://neocron.dirtynuke.net/)
Some of us have done a lot more than just pay our subs. Even if that weren't the case that's enough - the biggest part of that service is retaining the things we have earnt in-game.
I'm not going to repeat myself anymore about why I don't care about irrelevant comparisons.
No. At times KK are appaling. Some of their design decisions defy understanding. Their customer service varies between excellent and disgraceful. But, and this is a rather huge but, they have created a game I enjoy playing, despite the faults. I wouldn't pay 1 cent, let alone 1 cent more, for a game I didn't enjoy. I would probably pay twice as much for NC2 if I continued to enjoy it.
The problem is that the company and the game are inextricably intertwined (largely becuase they are a small company) and the game is now soured by the company too much for me. Different people have different thresholds - many had lower tolerance and left months ago, some have a higher tolerance and will leave in the future.
To me it's a bad sign for any RPG when people quit before they get bored - it means something is horribly wrong somewhere. This game loses very few people to boredom.
I only mentioned money because others did :p . I do think it's relevant though, just not as much as other things and only as an indicator.
Nothing else in the plan file bothers me much. The partial item wipe scores a good balance between reseting the economy and salvaging effort put into the game. The marketing is all aimed at Germany because it was a plan file about the marketing aimed at Germany.
I'm content. Although I do have helluva toothache. NC2 is going to rock, and I'll be there in the front line when it comes out.
The German thing was obvious months ago and I support it. I don't think there will be "rest of the world" in the forseeable future though. I do think it could have been handled better though and that KK didn't think fully about the consequences.
The wipe is a big problem to me.
The customer is always right. KK needs us more than we need them imho, so they need to pull their collective finger out and stop bulllshitting us.
The customer is always right. KK needs us more than we need them imho, so they need to pull their collective finger out and stop bulllshitting us.
I work in customer services (proudly dammit!) and I can assure you that the customer is not always right. The customer is uneducated, ill-informed, reactionary, arrogant, witless, egotistic, intolerant and very often just plain dead wrong. And they make sweeping generalisations.
Richard Slade
15-08-04, 14:56
I work in customer services (proudly dammit!) and I can assure you that the customer is not always right. The customer is uneducated, ill-informed, reactionary, arrogant, witless, egotistic, intolerant and very often just plain dead wrong. And they make sweeping generalisations.
Right on for that.
The big mass has never been a bright bunch (Democracy, no, no discussion about that here)
And I do belive that KK don't really need YOU in particular, as there are many many more around that will be satisfied just for the fact that that they have patience
I work in customer services
No wonder you're so bitter :lol: :lol:
:angel:
Ultimately though, the customer is the one paying the bills, so you try not to piss them off.
I work in customer services (proudly dammit!) and I can assure you that the customer is not always right. The customer is uneducated, ill-informed, reactionary, arrogant, witless, egotistic, intolerant and very often just plain dead wrong. And they make sweeping generalisations.
And that gives you the right to completely ignore customers? Let's not pretend that everyone with a bad KK CSR experience was a whiny bastard.
And that gives you the right to completely ignore customers? Let's not pretend that everyone with a bad KK CSR experience was a whiny bastard.
However, does seem to be the way mate, just My opinion though.
And that gives you the right to completely ignore customers? Let's not pretend that everyone with a bad KK CSR experience was a whiny bastard.
I was being a little tongue in cheek. KKs CR is ok, it's not great but it's not all that bad either. Mail helpdesk and you'll get a fairly quick response.
Their PR is another matter entirely :)
However, does seem to be the way mate, just My opinion though.
Says the guy around for 1 month.
Says the guy around for 1 month.
Why not criticise his spelling while you're at it?
N
Richard Slade
15-08-04, 15:11
Why not criticise his spelling while you're at it?
N
And maybe choice of name?
Or his sig, or that he ain't got no ava...
*sigh*
However, does seem to be the way mate, just My opinion though.My friend loses an apartment full of material... Not hacked or anything... Has the key, able to change the password... Able to access the apartment but enters the room in endless sync.
No response to the first or second mail. Third mail, gets a response... Starts a discussion, is in essence told 'can't help you, sorry'. Gets his apartment back, though this time without all the stuff in it. This was roughly a year ago.
Yes, he deserved that hassel. Yessirreee.
Several months ago, a similar thing happens. Someone I know has an apartment, has the key... But supposedly the apartment no longer exists.
Gets a response on the second mail, is asked if he shared his password; states 'yes' because he and his brother share the two accounts between them... Is then told that it's not their [KK's] problem because password safety would've prevented the loss.
Yes, someone having someone elses password makes apartments vanish even though the player in question still has the key!
[ edited ]
Edit- Comparing value of opinion to value of Yanni CD = bad.
http://dirtynuke.net/images/home_logo.jpg
[ edited ]
Why don't you respond to me. Eh?
:(
Why don't you respond to me. Eh?
:(
Because you actually made a valid point.
[ edited ]
At least I can come up with an argument, all you can do is call everyone mate and then whine while sucking up to KK
At least I can come up with an argument, all you can do is call everyone mate and then whine while sucking up to KK
In your 1,632 posts I've yet to see you come up with an argument, valid or otherwise.
Weeeelll
Says the guy around for 1 month
or
stop trolling nid hes generalising while only being around a month, its a perfectly valid point, and the fact it goes against your KK brown nosing view doesnt change that.
or maybe this little gem.
At least I can come up with an argument, all you can do is call everyone mate and then whine while sucking up to KK
O_o
I had an identical experience myself as well. Some 1, 1.5 yr b4 one of my chars, lost its starter (!) apartment. After contacting support, and after a tedious process of say maybe 4 days, I don't remember, i finally got back my apartment with nothing in it!!! (I was told the incredible: "we cant give you back yr stuff, sorry")
It was my starter apartment and the whole process lasted really a lot. the fun thing is, that after all this, they did a server rollback in Uranus, and my apartment was lost again :):):)
I never again bothered to contact them. this char still has no starter apartment!
This is not good support service.
About this wipe thing:
I have paying and sustained 3 different accounts. I have accumulated stuff from all this time of playing. I have not exploited, nor stealed this stuff. This is mine. I expect to upgrade with whatever I have earned so far. nothing less nothing more. I dont care if this procedure is difficult or easy. For what I can tell if its difficult, I can give access to kk employees to my stuff, take a pencil and paper and start writing. It's not my game, nor my company. They should find this solution to the problem, not I. If not they will lose 3 more accounts. in a couple of days, I will cancel all my accounts. This will be indicated by changing the tiltle under my name.
Weeeelll
or
or maybe this little gem.
O_o
"Shut the fuck up, you miserable fucking tosspot. Oh boo hoo the game I like playing is changing, booo hoo I don't like being at the same level as everyone else. Where has my ego gone?
Aye - I've been on the forums one month, long enough to see how fickle you lot are."
"I think it's mostly down to how long the transfer will take, do you wanna take forever and miss out on 2 weeks or so of game time, or just about 1 minute to enter whats on you QB. Anyone whose ever done a stock take of thier inventory and then entered it into data base will know it takes HOURS! sometimes DAYS!"
I like this one especially, its the most uninformed ive seen in months
"BTW sorry for being standoffish mate. Was all wined up. Also when I see things very clearly, but people have other ideas, it just pisses me off when they have thier own ideas."
this ones nice too
"Can you prove it? NO. SHUT
THE
HELL
UP."
"Why ruin other people just because your precious game is delayed? Get a new hobby. I'd love to get some idea of your age mate, because you're acting like a kid. "
pot....kettle....black....
" Are you honestly going to attack every company that didn't meet a deadline?"
kk never meet a deadline, something youd know if you were around longer
"Pissed at them? Why give them any money then? In fact, why don't you just leave now if you want to flaunt that attitude."
"Actually, as a matter of fact, if any one can prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that KK are liars/screwing us over etc without justification, WITHOUT resorting to this delay bullshit, I'll change my name to one decided by that person."
shows how new you are
K fine. I'll refrain from posting my opinion due to the fact that I'm new, doesn't matter if they makes sense or not eh?
Bye.
K fine. I'll refrain from posting my opinion due to the fact that I'm new, doesn't matter if they makes sense or not eh?
Bye.
its fine to post your opinion if your new, its not fine to post it as fact and then attack anyone who disagrees
u know thing im tired of is peops on this forum acting like children and biathcing all the time and flaming not so much they have ideas and wast this or that more the way they come off OMG LIESLIES KK GRRRR if some of these would try to make valid points or whatnot peops (i included) might not think they where total morons :)
maybe just maybe of KK gave the paying comunity more information and what they plan to do then ppl would stop jumping to conclusions until that happens ppl won't stop bitching end of story...
At least I can come up with an argument, all you can do is call everyone mate and then whine while sucking up to KK
all u do is biatch lol try to make a point once in a while and peops might listen
maybe just maybe of KK gave the paying comunity more information and what they plan to do then ppl would stop jumping to conclusions until that happens ppl won't stop bitching end of story...
u know i wish that was true
KK is a lil tight lipped thats for sure
but even when they give us info peops biatch and moan and whine
say there is a thread with 9 good things and 1 bad. peops will all focus on the bad thing and flame away
u knwo sometimes i think half the guys on this forum pay only to be able to whine
like this item whipe thing i mean really economy is fucked up now to the point where a newcomer would have no chance and everyone seems to biatch and whine about it
would u rather keep all stuff and then make life hard for newbie to the point of them quitting in a week ?
i for one rather keep 10 of my best items and see new peops in this game
tomparadox
15-08-04, 16:22
will you people get back on topic and stop flameing eatch other Oo...
More money = better service more staff better game
now plz STFU all other games have had to do this to expand stop whining no plz you stfu Oo. What other games? SWG witch started out at 15$ a month? ( that games not even worth 1 penny per month IMHO ). all the other games iv seen or played so far have started at 15$ a month Oo. But most of the games iv seen so far, exept SWG, are worth the 15$ a month.
Maby we should all wait till beta of NC2 to see if its worth 15$ a month completly?
Next flame or troll on this thread marks its closure.
N
I understand that :) BTW hows the Uranus construction clubs? Have you found any?
KK are not going to update neocron until neocron 2 comes out...so you can just say bye bye to that!
Elroy Jetson
15-08-04, 16:33
CoH and Lineage II are both 15 a month. less if you pay in 3 or 6 month chunks. But in the 2 months i played CoH i has was disconnected from the map server ONCE!! Never another interuption in game play, Also lag was almost non exsistant. THAT was worth 15 bucks. I honestly don't think KK can even come close to offering stability like that. new hardware or not.
economy is fucked up now to the point where a newcomer would have no chance
Utter and total bollocks.
Utter and total bollocks.
Utter and total ignorance. Newbies require cash handouts to survive, otherwise they have zero point one chance.
Utter and total ignorance. Newbies require cash handouts to survive, otherwise they have zero chance.Fact - the economy is working fine
Fact - it's easier for noobs to get items on the servers now (meaning before the plan file) than it ever was before
Fact - Post wipe the vets will have enough on their plates without helping noobs
Result - on the slim chance anyone new arrives on the International server they will be ignored and/or ganked but certainly not helped as they are now.
Please come back when you know something about this game Benjie.
Utter and total ignorance. Newbies require cash handouts to survive, otherwise they have zero point one chance.
Do you actually play NC benjie?
ive started new chars on saturn and pluto in the last 6 months, with noone to help me, on saturn i had 3 spies and a tank, barter, resser, constr, did everything myself, built everything myself, doing fine.
Utter and total ignorance. Newbies require cash handouts to survive, otherwise they have zero point one chance.
Exactly.
I wish people would stop with the "I've been here since beta so I understand the game, I'm always right and you're always wrong." or "How can they let people like THAT into the beta, when they don't understand the game?"
No-one except the makers understand the game, period.
It's humane to be wrong, but being wrong once doesn't mean you're always wrong... same goes for being right.
People who do something repeatedly over a long period of time often go numb and ignorant, that's why it's always important to get the views of at least one person who is relatively new to the matter at hand.
Newbies don't require cash handouts because of the economy. They require cash handouts because of how things were planned out by KK.
Lowest TL weapon costs minimum around 1.5k. It's crap quality, meaning that if they actually want to do well, they have to make them.
Then they have to buy BP's.
They have to get the item BP'd, pay the researcher.
Then they have to buy the weapon parts (which are and have always been very costly for low money peoples.)
Then they have to get it constructed, pay the constructor.
Then they can buy optional mods.
Bring it to a constructor, pay for modding.
Altogether, that can add up to alot of money... Money which is hard to come by if you're confused and hunting spiders...
Mix all that with the fact that most new players get a new weapon every 3-6 stat levels.
Exactly.
:wtf: What he said is total drivel. NC is a doddle for noobs now and noobs are far more supported by the community than they ever have been. Most people bend over backwards to help them because we all wish more people played.
I agree new people looking at the game in new ways is important but I can't see how that applies to Benjie.
As for "No-one except the makers understand the game, period." - that's only true in terms of the actual code and coders. Many times it has been shown that some players know far more about this game than some members of KK management, GMs and suport staff.
Newbies don't require cash handouts because of the economy. They require cash handouts because of things were planned out by KK.
Lowest TL weapon costs minimum around 1.5k. It's crap quality, meaning that if they actually want to do well, they have to make them.
Then they have to buy BP's.
They have to get the item BP'd, pay the researcher.
Then they have to buy the weapon parts (which are and have always been very costly for low money peoples.)
Then they have to get it constructed, pay the constructor.
Then they can buy optional mods.
Bring it to a constructor, pay for modding.
Altogether, that can add up to alot of money... Money which is hard to come by if you're confused and hunting spiders...
Mix all that with the fact that most new players get a new weapon every 3-6 stat levels.
While that's true, i usually find myself only changing weapons every 8-10 levels, and for newbies, quality and slots really dont matter
it seems to be vets rerolling who are the most interested in high slot newbie weapons and having one of every tl
Do you actually play NC benjie?
No. However I have seen several screenshots and read about it on these forums. This is the basis on which I post.
ive started new chars on saturn and pluto in the last 6 months, with noone to help me, on saturn i had 3 spies and a tank, barter, resser, constr, did everything myself, built everything myself, doing fine.
It took three tradeskill to do just fine? Thats proof enough!
While that's true, i usually find myself only changing weapons every 8-10 levels, and for newbies, quality and slots really dont matter
it seems to be vets rerolling who are the most interested in high slot newbie weapons and having one of every tlQuality does matter for most, I know it did for me.
Granted, I didn't aim for a 5 slot outstanding 'whatever'. I just wanted something better than poor 'whatever'.
Back when I was a nib, getting weapons made drained my cash hardcore. And don't even get me started on imps.
:lol:
It took three tradeskill to do just fine? Thats proof enough!
Thats on saturn because I dont trust many people there not to be fuckwits, on pluto I have a PE that I levelled up without help because I actually trust the tradeskillers there not to steal everything.
Thats on saturn because I dont trust many people there not to be fuckwits, on pluto I have a PE that I levelled up without help because I actually trust the tradeskillers there not to steal everything.
Pluto can be quite generous. Tradeskillers offering there services for free=Handout. =/ Several of us also give newbie players cash to give them a leg up in the inflated econamy. I give them this in the firm belief that they genuinly need it, this belief stems from personal experiences in the game. For example, my first character trying to buy two newbie weapons with his small amount of self-earned cash, and the tradeskillers demanding much more than I could possibly afford, and several people on trade informing me that this was the standard price on saturn. This was before the inflation on pluto cought up.
tomparadox
15-08-04, 17:14
It took three tradeskill to do just fine? Thats proof enough!
iv done it, without my own trade skillers. nOObs dont need money, because money is piss easy to make in this game. Take a melee tank, rank <<< go to TH lvl 2 core and jest kill those, hack the back room kill all of those and leav. Keep doing that over and over and youll make a lot of money and get a lot of lvls.
For n00bs, kill aggie mobs sell the bones. for real low lvl n00bs, kill plaints and sell the drugs they drop...
Tell me how that isent easy?
When i made my first melee tank i never used money from my other chars and i never needed to barrow money exept for a couple times because my armor broke, or i needed to get something for the clan...
I agree it was obvious but can't see how item tracking has any bearing on it. I don't think they'll be using bits of paper to transfer the DB, so there's no difference moving 10 items or 100.It's not 10 or 100. It's billions of discrete items that have to be moved from the existing database to the new database. My main character alone has several thousand items, and I'm not anywhere near the top of the item collector list. On top of that, there's the problem of what to do with all those who have apts in enemy territory - the old TG vs NC argument. And what about people with starters in Tsunami? What if those starters turn into three cabinet starters? There's also the snapshot issue - when do they take the "snapshot" of your character in NC in order to port it to the new database?
KK's got one, maybe two people who can do the conversion. While I hoped their conversion system could handle more than 10 items, I wasn't expecting ALL my apartments to transfer through due to sheer workload. CoDi's only human...
What he said is total drivel. NC is a doddle for noobs now and noobs are far more supported by the community than they ever have been. Most people bend over backwards to help them because we all wish more people played.
i think its been to long since u was a n00bie and not a noobi meaning gets a new char and lvling it up in 7 days(u know there is a diff between starting a new char and knowing all there is to know in this game and a real n00bie not knowing anything) i mean a real n00b as in not having a clue as to whats going on seeing stuff gets sold for outrageous prices lvling in the sewers and not earning crap getting pked every hour cuz players that are capped have all the stuff they need and all the money they need are bored and kills n00bies for fun
seeing lowbie weapons get sold for godamn outrageous prices while u have 5K and feel proud urself getting scammed by tradeskillers (have to use em cuz he dont have one themselves this applies only to multi slot servers however) i think i would quit if i was a n00bie in nc today
to many peops are bitter and angry and make the n00bies suffer
maybee if we gave the boored high lvl players sum to do n00bs could actually lvl in peace and go in their own pace not ours
@Icestorm - My point (as I'm sure you well know) is that scale is largely irrelevant. Sure, there are issues but they are all solvable. This is being done for a reason but it's nothing to do with data management.
@Solling - I've helped dozens, if not hundreds, of new players through the early stages of this game. I am very well aware of the issues and I have seen how much easier it is now than in the past. I have several appartments just used to store items I give out to newbies - those apts will be lost along with the libraries of items my tradeskillers use to make anything I don't have in stock and the cash I hand out.
After the wipe how many capped players will rush out to get BPs of lowbie pistols do you think?
If you want to help the newbies you don't start by destroying their support infrastructure.
Newbies don't require cash handouts because of the economy. They require cash handouts because of how things were planned out by KK.
Lowest TL weapon costs minimum around 1.5k. It's crap quality, meaning that if they actually want to do well, they have to make them.
Then they have to buy BP's.
They have to get the item BP'd, pay the researcher.
Then they have to buy the weapon parts (which are and have always been very costly for low money peoples.)
Then they have to get it constructed, pay the constructor.
Then they can buy optional mods.
Bring it to a constructor, pay for modding.
Altogether, that can add up to alot of money... Money which is hard to come by if you're confused and hunting spiders...
Mix all that with the fact that most new players get a new weapon every 3-6 stat levels.
Okay i'ma break my no postiness for a sec. You can start of killing spiders and crap in the sewers yes. 3 Complete cleanouts takes me 30 mins and gives me 5000 Nc.
I go buy my low tech weapon, 2 K around about. I get it ressed, but wait! No tip thx! tis low level. - And that is a fact, almost any resser on uranus, wouldn't dream of scamming a nib. If they do, that's pretty freaking low.
Okies so I spent about 500 NC on the BPs. I need more money for WPs, No problem. 20 mins later I have 3k, I buy my weapon parts, ands then move on to get it consted, still for free cos I'm a nib. or maybe tip what I can. Ppl are pretty fair.
Now I have a shiny weapon, I kill things faster, 1 Cleanout takes me about 5 mins, and I'm leveling and making more money.
Same process, just rinse and repeat, only now, I can afford to tip, next weapons up, so I team in the aggy's and sell the enforcements to pay for it.
and so on and so forth. I've never once run out of money in NC.
@Solling - I've helped dozens, if not hundreds, of new players through the early stages of this game. I am very well aware of the issues and I have seen how much easier it is now than in the past. I have several appartments just used to store items I give out to newbies - those apts will be lost along with the libraries of items my tradeskillers use to make anything I don't have in stock and the cash I hand out
u might as one of the only guys others dont
fact is more guys wanna kill n00bis then help em
so lets keep the bad guys occupied lvling and getting new loot
When pluto started there was all newbies and no high lvl players and no broken economy and guess what it was GREAT it was not easy but it was not hard either it was just right and more importantly it was FUN
u try that with the old economy
If you want to help the newbies you don't start by destroying their support infrastructure
the best way to help n00bs is to leave em alone i would say they dont need handouts but they dont need all the horrible crap they get from all capped all rares all rich peops either
another example i remeber back in the old days when pvp could be done with TPCs VERY fun no one had rares
i also rembeer when i got my first rare twas a libby and WOW i felt so happy that day i worked hard for it and it felt good
i dont wanna ruin the noobie experience by giving em all the good stuff telling em lvl in aggies then mb/storage 8/ then chaos caves
best days of nc was when u was a noobie and everything was new and fun
why ruin that experience for them
there was pkers with rare weapons and almost impossible to kill but they where few and far apart without a economy fix they will be everywhere
Okay i'ma break my no postiness for a sec. You can start of killing spiders and crap in the sewers yes. 3 Complete cleanouts takes me 30 mins and gives me 5000 Nc.
I go buy my low tech weapon, 2 K around about. I get it ressed, but wait! No tip thx! tis low level. - And that is a fact, almost any resser on uranus, wouldn't dream of scamming a nib. If they do, that's pretty freaking low.
Okies so I spent about 500 NC on the BPs. I need more money for WPs, No problem. 20 mins later I have 3k, I buy my weapon parts, ands then move on to get it consted, still for free cos I'm a nib. or maybe tip what I can. Ppl are pretty fair.
Now I have a shiny weapon, I kill things faster, 1 Cleanout takes me about 5 mins, and I'm leveling and making more money.
Same process, just rinse and repeat, only now, I can afford to tip, next weapons up, so I team in the aggy's and sell the enforcements to pay for it.
and so on and so forth. I've never once run out of money in NC.
Because you know how the system works.
When I first joined I bought weapons that sounded good, yet I couldn't use.
I bought implants instead of relying on drops. I did alot of things that aren't financially smart. But being a new player... Mistakes like that are bound to be made.
I agree, no handouts are needed for a smart player, and those that are needed aren't due to the economy.
Because you know how the system works.
When I first joined I bought weapons that sounded good, yet I couldn't use.
I bought implants instead of relying on drops. I did alot of things that aren't financially smart. But being a new player... Mistakes like that are bound to be made.
I agree, no handouts are needed for a smart player, and those that are needed aren't due to the economy.
Well, No not entirely, I've only been playing a total of 8 months, so i will fold to that.
It's just coming up with a balanced econmy I suppose, something that people won't be able to exploit.
Gotta say, NC has always been full of people a mix of people that will help you and people that just PK anything red, or in many cases even yellow.
When I first started on pluto when the game went retail I leveled and hunted on my own for ages at the start. I started as a TS runner so I got ganked a lot by High level TG tanks with CS in pepperpark ( at that time TG was PK happy in pluto and if I remember rightly NDA was just being pulled together for the first time in response to TG's frequent attacks). Anyway, I hunted and explored for quite a while on my own, but it wasnt until I joined my first clan and got together with some people that allready knew there way around NC that I finally began to get to grips with the game.
Thanks to the manual and lack of in-game info I had no clue about imps, weapons and rares until people started to help me out.
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 22:50
My say on the subject.
KK have LIED (or failed to give is information, both is the same for me) over and over and over again. They have lied about DoY (it being an expansion). They have lied about the free nature of DoY. They have lied about the cost of the expansion. They have lied about item wipes - char wipes.
They made commitments and they broke them. This is a lie to me. I do not care AT ALL under what circumstances the commitments had to be broken, if KK couldnt stick up to them, they shouldnt have made them in the first place.
Charging for NC2 the same amount that SoE charges for SWG is surely naive on their behalf. Will they offer SoE-like amount of content? Probably not. Will they offer SWG (or even worst, EQ2) like graphics? No way. Will they offer stable servers? With no rollbacks?(and dont mention the initial hickups with SWG, EVERY GAME HAS THEM).That remains to be seen. But still new servers alone do not justify the cost increase (stable servers are a requirement for a MMORPG, NOT an advantage).
Also wtf is all this shiteh about a DX 9.0 supporting engine? When i read DX 9.0 i expect FARCRY level gfx. I expect to see Pixel Shaders, Gouraud Shading and shitloads of polygons. I really really doubt that ANY version of Tektoniks could achieve that kind of gfx. Most probably the "new" game engine (which isnt new at all if you think about it) will only fix the issues with the game not taking ANY advantage of 3d accelerators.
I wouldnt have any problem at all to pay extra for NC2. But as it was said before "it better fucking deliver" (and no, i dont mean "deliver to my home" as this probably aint going to happen-read the new plan file :) ). And let me have HUGE doubts as far as delivering is concerned...
Best post in this thread yet shodan http://neocron.jafc.de/images/icons/icon14.gif
Jesterthegreat
15-08-04, 23:01
Neocron used to be dirt cheap, and now KK are asking a normal price. What is there to complain about? Just be happy it was cheap for as long as it was.
He's probabally wrong. Better servers=better servers.
yup... NC is currently the cheapest MMORPG i know of (other than shitty free ones :P)
the price will (hopefully) allow better servers / maintainance.
at least try it before you bitch and moan o_O
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 23:06
Best post in this thread yet shodan http://neocron.jafc.de/images/icons/icon14.gif
Hehehe im on a diet and ive got one hell of a temper lately.
Jesterthegreat
15-08-04, 23:10
Hehehe im on a diet and ive got one hell of a temper lately.
you havent played it...
you dont know the spec of the servers...
the price is average for a MMORPG...
i realise KK has had a huge communication problem, and has gone back on its word more than once :p but i dont see a massive problem with paying what any other MMORPG asks, at least until i have tried the game to my satisfaction
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 23:14
you havent played it...
Ive got more than 10 years of gaming experience. I can read between the lines of a company's propaganda. And i am a fanboi of no company.
you dont know the spec of the servers...
Read what ive written...I said that the quality of the new servers remains to be seen...But we should have had high spec stable servers IN THE FIRST PLACE. I dont consider the fact that KK will provide me with something that i should have been provided with months ago, enough of a reason to increase the subscription costs
the price is average for a MMORPG...
The price is average, the current techincal status of the game is below average...
i realise KK has had a huge communication problem, and has gone back on its word more than once :p but i dont see a massive problem with paying what any other MMORPG asks, at least until i have tried the game to my satisfaction
The other MMORPGs ask the same amount but deliver (damn this must be the key verb to this thread) far more ;)
...i expect FARCRY level gfx...You gotta be kidding me. I have seen both FARCRY and Doom3 in person on high end PCs now, and FARCRY makes Doom3 look 16 bit. That could change when PCs capable of running Doom3 properly are available, but saying NC2 should look like FARCRY is completely ridiculous.
Jesterthegreat
15-08-04, 23:20
Ive got more than 10 years of gaming experience. I can read between the lines of a company's propaganda. And i am a fanboi of no company.
i have played for more than that and am no fanboi either... whats tyhat got to do with the quality of NC2? O_o
Read what ive written...I said that the quality of the new servers remains to be seen...But we should have had high spec stable servers IN THE FIRST PLACE. I dont consider the fact that KK will provide me with something that i should have been provided with months ago, enough of a reason to increase the subscription costs
i agree the current servers suck... however there is a small player base (fucked advertising didnt help) and we pay far less than any other MMORPG company get to buy / maintain servers
The price is average, the current techincal status of the game is below average...
you mean the current game? that is not what they are charging more for. they are charging more for NC2
The other MMORPGs ask the same amount but deliver (damn this must be the key verb to this thread) far more ;)you have no idea (and nor do i) what NC2 will be delivering
:edit: were any of your comments on NC2? O_o
You played games before and know what kk is thinking :rolleyes:
NC1's servers arent good enough
the status of NC1 is not good enough
they dont deliver enough with NC1
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 23:22
You gotta be kidding me. I have seen both FARCRY and Doom3 in person on high end PCs now, and FARCRY makes Doom3 look 16 bit. That could change when PCs capable of running Doom3 properly are available, but saying NC2 should look like FARCRY is completely ridiculous.
Ok, maybe farcry and doom 3 are excagerations (sp) but i sure dont want my game to look like quake 2, cause thats what NC looks like atm (and i really doubt it will look much better soon). Also consider the type of GFX that EQ2 is going to have...
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 23:27
i have played for more than that and am no fanboi either... whats tyhat got to do with the quality of NC2? O_o
Most pro-KK people judge NC2 on the fancy stuff that KK has announced like "All new GFX engine" and "Massive New City" etc etc. Now if i go look at the back of my current NC box ill see loads of stuff that isnt in game. What makes you think that the current KK statements are true?
i agree the current servers suck... however there is a small player base (fucked advertising didnt help) and we pay far less than any other MMORPG company get to buy / maintain servers
Remember that low server pops also mean that there is need for fewer-less strong servers. Soe has a large player base who pay more but they also have to maintain servers that could probably host in total about half a million people if they had to.
you mean the current game? that is not what they are charging more for. they are charging more for NC2
you have no idea (and nor do i) what NC2 will be delivering
I agree, because contrary to other games the only stuff we have seen from NC 2 (unless ive missed something) are some screenshots which boast the same engine-models (Which will be changed soon (tm)).
Ok, maybe farcry and doom 3 are excagerations (sp) but i sure dont want my game to look like quake 2, cause thats what NC looks like atm (and i really doubt it will look much better soon). Also consider the type of GFX that EQ2 is going to have...Yeah, I'll give you that. Quake 2 and NC1 are roughly equivalent in terms of graphic features. NC1 has much better textures however. I seem to recall a statement that NC2 will use pixel shaders, but it was quite a while ago...
Jesterthegreat
15-08-04, 23:31
Most pro-KK people judge NC2 on the fancy stuff that KK has announced like "All new GFX engine" and "Massive New City" etc etc. Now if i go look at the back of my current NC box ill see loads of stuff that isnt in game. What makes you think that the current KK statements are true? having played since beta 3 i am well aware that KK has promised more than it has delivered... however moaning does nothing (i know... many many people tried it)
Remember that low server pops also mean that there is need for fewer-less strong servers. Soe has a large player base who pay more but they also have to maintain servers that could probably host in total about half a million people if they had to.
so... are you saying that since NC currently has a low pop they should use worse servers and charge less... wonderful.. cant wait til loads of people join and the servers cant handle it, we can all just blame you for suggesting lower quality servers though eh?
you mean the current game? that is not what they are charging more for. they are charging more for NC2
answer missing?
I agree, because contrary to other games the only stuff we have seen from NC 2 (unless ive missed something) are some screenshots which boast the same engine-models (Which will be changed soon (tm)).
so instead of waiting for them to release info, lets pretend we know whats happening and say the price is to high!
I'm slightly annoyed by the fact that the money we pay for our accounts is supposed to be going into patches and good servers. KK haven't really provided that for a long time and have use the excuse "Our resources are going into doy". We all thought "yeah fair enough because its like getting lots of patches in one go". And now they make us pay for it. Where has the money that we have paid for our accounts going? :confused:
Where has the money that we have paid for our accounts going? :confused:
Into running the service you've been choosing to pay for, and covering staff and development costs for NC2 I suppose.
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 23:38
having played since beta 3 i am well aware that KK has promised more than it has delivered... however moaning does nothing (i know... many many people tried it)
Maybe (just maybe, very remote chance, but well, maybe) KK will get their act together after being subjected to all this moaning. Furthermore its my right as a paying customer to moan.
so... are you saying that since NC currently has a low pop they should use worse servers and charge less... wonderful.. cant wait til loads of people join and the servers cant handle it, we can all just blame you for suggesting lower quality servers though eh?
I was talking about the current server situation. But even after DoY, do you really expect NC to have such a huge client influx that they will need SoE like servers? To me it seems that the "new server situation" is just an excuse to increase the monthly fee.
so instead of waiting for them to release info, lets pretend we know whats happening and say the price is to high!
I really doubt that they will release info, because there is probably no astonishing info to release (like all new screenshots with the NEW engine etc).
Dargeshaad
15-08-04, 23:39
I'm slightly annoyed by the fact that the money we pay for our accounts is supposed to be going into patches and good servers. KK haven't really provided that for a long time and have use the excuse "Our resources are going into doy". We all thought "yeah fair enough because its like getting lots of patches in one go". And now they make us pay for it. Where has the money that we have paid for our accounts going? :confused:
The hamsters need food you know....
Into running the service you've been choosing to pay for, and covering staff and development costs for NC2 I suppose.
Why do they need us to pay for NC2 aswell then? Wouldn't the subscription that we pay for NC2 cover that?
The hamsters need food you know....
Yeah FREddy the hamster
Why do they need us to pay for NC2 aswell then? Wouldn't the subscription that we pay for NC2 cover that?
Possibly, I've no idea what KK's finances are like. I guess the NC2 price covers the same stuff as any other game release; marketing, distribution, media, staff costs, and puts a bit of money in the bank to cover development of future titles.
u might as one of the only guys others dont
fact is more guys wanna kill n00bis then help em
so lets keep the bad guys occupied lvling and getting new lootI think you're being a tad pessimistic. Even Saturn is generally nice to noobs IME and if they keep their LE in they can't get ganked - which I always make sure they do.
When pluto started there was all newbies and no high lvl players and no broken economy and guess what it was GREAT it was not easy but it was not hard either it was just right and more importantly it was FUN
u try that with the old economyI don't see how the economy is "broken" and I think Saturn was GREAT till people started throwing their kit in the gutter.
TPC combat hasn't really existed since beta, ie since rares were introduced. Rares appeared on the retail servers in about a week. Pluto was awash with duped CSs in about a month.
i dont wanna ruin the noobie experience by giving em all the good stuff telling em lvl in aggies then mb/storage 8/ then chaos caves
best days of nc was when u was a noobie and everything was new and fun
why ruin that experience for themI can't speak for anyone else but I tend to take newbs to places they probably wouldn't find till long after they serve no purpose, like the PP Maze, which most players seem to first visit at about rank 60 and never use. Giving them a tour of PP and INDA is a great way to show them how cool the game is. If they just follow the startup emails and kill spiders they get bored and leave IME.
there was pkers with rare weapons and almost impossible to kill but they where few and far apart without a economy fix they will be everywhereThey were only rare for about a month or two as they hunted for their rares - in NC2 they are starting out with their rares so it'll happen as soon as they get bored, ie a week or two.
Jesterthegreat
15-08-04, 23:45
Maybe (just maybe, very remote chance, but well, maybe) KK will get their act together after being subjected to all this moaning. Furthermore its my right as a paying customer to moan.
we can only hope
I was talking about the current server situation. But even after DoY, do you really expect NC to have such a huge client influx that they will need SoE like servers? To me it seems that the "new server situation" is just an excuse to increase the monthly fee.
the current servers tend to fuck up with what... 500 players? i would certainly hope we get enough players to top 500 on a server. Neocron was ReaKKtor's first MMORPG, they arent quite as famous an Sony...
I really doubt that they will release info, because there is probably no astonishing info to release (like all new screenshots with the NEW engine etc).
personally i will wait and see if they do...
and unless the new info is really bad i will be getting NC2 and at least giving it my trial period.
whats the point in deciding wether the money / effort / game is worth it until its out and i have played it?
Possibly, I've no idea what KK's finances are like. I guess the NC2 price covers the same stuff as any other game release; marketing, distribution, media, staff costs, and puts a bit of money in the bank to cover development of future titles.
The fact that we have to buy NC2 suggests that its been marketed as a brand new game and that would mean that the subscription money that we have paid for NC1 hasn't been used to benefit NC1 which is what we were paying for.
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 23:49
we can only hope
Word
the current servers tend to fuck up with what... 500 players? i would certainly hope we get enough players to top 500 on a server. Neocron was ReaKKtor's first MMORPG, they arent quite as famous an Sony...
There are free rpg games (like MU Online) with far larger pop counts that run far stabler...so i really doubt its about the game subscription not being enough
personally i will wait and see if they do...
Me too. But moaning a bit so as to keep them on the run isnt bad..
and unless the new info is really bad i will be getting NC2 and at least giving it my trial period. Ill be trialing during open beta as well.
Jesterthegreat
15-08-04, 23:49
The fact that we have to buy NC2 suggests that its been marketed as a brand new game and that would mean that the subscription money that we have paid for NC1 hasn't been used to benefit NC1 which is what we were paying for.
or maybe... just maybe the fact that a free add on offered no money to the new publishers was an issue...
why spend loads advertising a game that you will get no money back from?
i suspect it was something the publishers requested during the deals. tbh as long as NC2 gets advertising and gets new players... it will be worth it
:edit @shod i dont wanna argue with you... all i will say is please dont base your purchase desision on a beta test. dont see a beta with bugs in and decide that you sdont want the game! no matter how late i the beta it is, its still a beta
The fact that we have to buy NC2 suggests that its been marketed as a brand new game and that would mean that the subscription money that we have paid for NC1 hasn't been used to benefit NC1 which is what we were paying for.
NC2 is being marketed as a new game, yes. Your monthly subscription fee didn't pay for 'benefits to NC1', or anything else for that matter. It paid for access to Neocron, nothing more or less. What KK choose to do with that money is entirely up to them, just like it's entirely up to you whether you continue to pay.
For my part I'm happy. Everything I've seen or heard about NC2 leaves me thinking it's going to be very good, and well worth the wait. Just like I thought Neocron was very good and well worth my monthly payment (even with parashock and a Trike made from cardboard).
Jesterthegreat
15-08-04, 23:53
For my part I'm happy. Everything I've seen or heard about NC2 leaves me thinking it's going to be very good, and well worth the wait. Just like I thought Neocron was very good and well worth my monthly payment (even with parashock and a Trike made from cardboard).
ditto
im just waitin for open beta now :D
or maybe... just maybe the fact that a free add on offered no money to the new publishers was an issue...
why spend loads advertising a game that you will get no money back from?
i suspect it was something the publishers requested during the deals. tbh as long as NC2 gets advertising and gets new players... it will be worth it
What advertising? You mean 1 little booklet in some german magazine and some web ads(hey, CDV did that as well, seen plenty of NC1 flash ads on gaming sites)
What advertising? You mean 1 little booklet in some german magazine and some web ads(hey, CDV did that as well, seen plenty of NC1 flash ads on gaming sites)
Here's where my KK fanboi status wavers...
I'd like to see more advertising. I'd also like a firm release date. I guess the release date has to come first, but I do feel they're cutting this awfully fine.
On the otherhand, open beta very soon, and it would seem sensible to leave mass advertising until a few weeks into open beta so any horrible bugs the closed beta team have missed can be fixed.
KKeep the faith as they say...I'm sure 10tacel and Big Ben know what to do, even if KK don't :)
shodanjr_gr
15-08-04, 23:58
NC2 is being marketed as a new game, yes. Your monthly subscription fee didn't pay for 'benefits to NC1', or anything else for that matter. It paid for access to Neocron, nothing more or less. What KK choose to do with that money is entirely up to them, just like it's entirely up to you whether you continue to pay.
Let me just remind you that KK has said countless of times that they werent fixing current bugs-issues cause all their resources were being spent on DoY ;)
Jesterthegreat
16-08-04, 00:01
What advertising? You mean 1 little booklet in some german magazine and some web ads(hey, CDV did that as well, seen plenty of NC1 flash ads on gaming sites)
your right... this game that has a few hundred beta testers has not been fully advertised?!?!?!?!?!!
how about we wait til release is imminent before moaning about the amount of advertising?
if theres none of it ill be the first to be pissed, and ill prolly come on here tro point out the error of KK's ways, but in the beta stages im not too bothered
Let me just remind you that KK has said countless of times that they werent fixing current bugs-issues cause all their resources were being spent on DoY ;)
That doesn't imply they wouldn't charge for DoY when it arrived.
They seem to be getting their act together lately, and listening more. Hell the new CEO is reading this very thread right now. *waves*
/me on my best behavior :angel:
or maybe... just maybe the fact that a free add on offered no money to the new publishers was an issue...
Isn't MJS working for 10tacle now?
BTW personally I've got nothing against the way the money has been spent since I'm going to DoY but for someone who isn't because they thought it would be free it would be very frustating
EDIT:
Let me just remind you that KK has said countless of times that they werent fixing current bugs-issues cause all their resources were being spent on DoY
And the DoY that we were promised would come free as a "big patch" for NC1
Jesterthegreat
16-08-04, 00:03
They seem to be getting their act together lately, and listening more. Hell the new CEO is reading this very thread right now. *waves*
/me on my best behavior :angel:
onoz!
i lied! i am a fanboi! i love you!
ps,,, im still awaiting the lead GM position MJS promissed me... sort it out for me mister new CEO? :lol:
your right... this game that has a few hundred beta testers has not been fully advertised?!?!?!?!?!!
how about we wait til release is imminent before moaning about the amount of advertising?
if theres none of it ill be the first to be pissed, and ill prolly come on here tro point out the error of KK's ways, but in the beta stages im not too bothered4 days ago, there were 3 weeks until retail, and no advertising.
Look at other succesful mmorpg's and you will see that advertising starts before retail, because product awareness is key.
for someone who isn't because they thought it would be free it would be very frustating
*mutters something about counting chickens before they hatch*
I suppose it would be. If I worked for KK I'd have to be diplomatic and stuff here...but I don't. Boohoo to them, get over it! :p
shodanjr_gr
16-08-04, 00:06
your right... this game that has a few hundred beta testers has not been fully advertised?!?!?!?!?!!
how about we wait til release is imminent before moaning about the amount of advertising?
if theres none of it ill be the first to be pissed, and ill prolly come on here tro point out the error of KK's ways, but in the beta stages im not too bothered
Ive seen games being advertised like 3 or 4 months before release. And i am talking about full page magasine ads. The whole mag-web site preview gimmik/hype creation procedure is a wholy different issue that KK doesnt seem to bother about. If the game is going to be released on September 23rd (or whatever), commecing the advertising on the same date doesnt seem like a good corporate policy to me.
Ive seen games being advertised like 3 or 4 months before release.
The problem with that from Neocron's perspective is if you advertise really heavily now, before the open beta is available, people will come and try Neocron 1.
NC1 is good enough, but it's starting to age a little, and the player population has stagnated too much. It's not a great newbie experience.
If they wait til open beta then people will try NC2, which is what they want. If they don't start advertising then I'll be a little bit pissed off, cos that's their golden opportunity to get people interested.
shodanjr_gr
16-08-04, 00:12
The problem with that from Neocron's perspective is if you advertise really heavily now, before the open beta is available, people will come and try Neocron 1.
NC1 is good enough, but it's starting to age a little, and the player population has stagnated too much. It's not a great newbie experience.
If they wait til open beta then people will try NC2, which is what they want. If they don't start advertising then I'll be a little bit pissed off, cos that's their golden opportunity to get people interested.
Then shut NC 1 down for a couple of months. Let KK devote their whole resources to the new game so that it will be as good as it can get (given the current time frames left). But waiting even for open beta to start so as to commence advertising doesnt seem to good either (it will be like 20 days to retail launch?).
The problem with that from Neocron's perspective is if you advertise really heavily now, before the open beta is available, people will come and try Neocron 1.
NC1 is good enough, but it's starting to age a little, and the player population has stagnated too much. It's not a great newbie experience.
If they wait til open beta then people will try NC2, which is what they want. If they don't start advertising then I'll be a little bit pissed off, cos that's their golden opportunity to get people interested.Sorry chumble, but thats just wrong.
You are advertising neocron 2, not neocron 1.
Lineage did it, EQ2 IS doing it, AC2 did it.
shodanjr_gr
16-08-04, 00:16
Sorry chumble, but thats just wrong.
You are advertising neocron 2, not neocron 1.
Lineage did it, EQ2 IS doing it, AC2 did it.
He has a point actually. All the products you refer had an "ancestor" that was actually good to play for the majority of the player base. Furthermore the games had a quite large plaerbase and a company to back em up.
Now people coming to try NC1 and finding saturn at 50 people, wont be sticking around for NC2...
Jesterthegreat
16-08-04, 00:18
10tacle already showed us this with the 10 page special in the PC Games
only 10 pages? :rolleyes:
There will also be several big previews in the upcoming editions of the most important game magazines in the German speaking areas.
only free demo's? lets give away the entire game? it will make for better advertising! :rolleyes:
i dunno about you but i will leave it to them to decide how yto advertise
On the otherhand, open beta very soon, and it would seem sensible to leave mass advertising until a few weeks into open beta so any horrible bugs the closed beta team have missed can be fixed.
The open beta won't be about taking in new bug-reports. It'll be a PR excercise and maybe tidying up a few loose ends from closed beta.
Three weeks from release is too late to start a new test-and-report cycle.
Then again, this is KK....:rolleyes:
He has a point actually. All the products you refer had an "ancestor" that was actually good to play for the majority of the player base. Furthermore the games had a quite large plaerbase and a company to back em up.
Now people coming to try NC1 and finding saturn at 50 people, wont be sticking around for NC2...
Yup :(
In an ideal world NC1 would be a good hook to get people into NC2, but given the low player counts, stagnant gameplay and often very hostile (to KK) forums, I don't think anyone coming to NC1 now is going to get a great impression.
Better to wait until people are drooling over open beta :D
The open beta won't be about taking in new bug-reports. It'll be a PR excercise and maybe tidying up a few loose ends from closed beta.
Well all the better. If open beta is good PR from day 1 then everyone wins.
Jesterthegreat
16-08-04, 00:19
The open beta won't be about taking in new bug-reports. It'll be a PR excercise and maybe tidying up a few loose ends from closed beta.
Three weeks from release is too late to start a new test-and-report cycle.
Then again, this is KK....:rolleyes:
and a server stress test
If the price hike is too much - learn to suck some dick. Take a shot in the mouth once a month from some truck driver and you're got your subscription.
That, or work another fuckin' hour?
He has a point actually. All the products you refer had an "ancestor" that was actually good to play for the majority of the player base. Furthermore the games had a quite large plaerbase and a company to back em up.
Now people coming to try NC1 and finding saturn at 50 people, wont be sticking around for NC2...I hated lineage 1, EQ 1 and AC1 :)
l2 was ok, AC2 was ok but empty(like nc:)), EQ2 im looking forward to
Take a shot in the mouth once a month from some truck driver
8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|
I agree with the sentiment, but I might have phrased it a little differently :lol:
and a server stress test
Several months too late for that.
shodanjr_gr
16-08-04, 14:39
Several months too late for that.
What he said...i dont consider 20 days of Open Beta do be enough of a stress test (iirc other games get more than a month of open beta. And their closed beta tests are comprised from more than a few hundred testers....i.e. a few thousands).
Gevrik Halfdead
16-08-04, 14:49
Can't believe this thread is still open. ;)
I gave up hoping it would come out on a certain date months ago I just want it to actully come out don't care when really but I know its not long now :)
What he said...i dont consider 20 days of Open Beta do be enough of a stress test (iirc other games get more than a month of open beta. And their closed beta tests are comprised from more than a few hundred testers....i.e. a few thousands).
Aye, but 2 things - They're trying to still meet you at least halfway with a reasonable deadline, thus using open beta and making the beta phase short, but intensive.
2) I don't think we have thousands of NC players. or people remotely interested. We shall havew to see come open beta.
tomparadox
16-08-04, 15:15
What he said...i dont consider 20 days of Open Beta do be enough of a stress test (iirc other games get more than a month of open beta. And their closed beta tests are comprised from more than a few hundred testers....i.e. a few thousands).
yea i agree, but i dont think KK could get a couple thousand without takeing the entire active community and then some, but they still should have picked more people :/
Closed betas are better with fewer people to allow quicker communication and more direct links to the devs and to keep people's minds on the job - too many people and it just becomes a live server with bugs.
Open betas come in two flavours. 1) PR excercises that aren't testing much if anything and are just there to provide a free trial with a clear "unfininished" notice on it. 2) load tests to tweak server config and game balance. As the server and balance issues should be well understood from NC1 we can assume this falls into type 1.
The only complaint I have with the way the NC2 beta is being run is the length of the closed beta which should have been given at least three months and more like six if major decisions are still being made after it has started (as I believe they are).
Closed betas are better with fewer people to allow quicker communication and more direct links to the devs and to keep people's minds on the job - too many people and it just becomes a live server with bugs.
Open betas come in two flavours. 1) PR excercises that aren't testing much if anything and are just there to provide a free trial with a clear "unfininished" notice on it. 2) load tests to tweak server config and game balance. As the server and balance issues should be well understood from NC1 we can assume this falls into type 1.
The only complaint I have with the way the NC2 beta is being run is the length of the closed beta which should have been given at least three months and more like six if major decisions are still being made after it has started (as I believe they are).
Aye, I fully agree here, a longer beta would probably root out all those bugs.
But with people clamouring for the release of NC2 it's a difficult choice to make as to whether to extend beta testing or not.
As the server and balance issues should be well understood from NC1 we can assume this falls into type 1.
The server architecture for NC2 is different to NC1, both in terms of hardware and the separation of server functions; it's going to need some load testing. Remember the small matter of the item tracking server? ;)
N
The server architecture for NC2 is different to NC1, both in terms of hardware and the separation of server functions; it's going to need some load testing. Remember the small matter of the item tracking server? ;)
N
True but most of that can be done using automated stress testing I would expect. I was more thinking of things like load-balancing the world servers to handle population imbalances and testing the combat engine under load. These are things that are hard to test without real players.
I'm sure there is some live load-testing to do but it won't be anything like as much as for a completely new system. For example, open betas often see class-balance issues cropping up which weren't obvious with lower populations. KK should know their strengths and weaknesses in that area inside and out by now.
My opinion is, if the price needs to be $15 then make it $15. But that doesnt make it suck any less. I have 3 accounts and $45 a month is going to blow. Thats $540 a year and just thinking about that price makes me want to die. Not to mention the cost of upgrading. Just please for the love of all that is good in the world, make a 2 slot international server and let us merge accounts. Nuff said.
My opinion is, if the price needs to be $15 then make it $15. But that doesnt make it suck any less. I have 3 accounts and $45 a month is going to blow. Thats $540 a year and just thinking about that price makes me want to die. Not to mention the cost of upgrading. Just please for the love of all that is good in the world, make a 2 slot international server and let us merge accounts. Nuff said.
All I can say is OUCH. Must be around 490 - 500 atm tho... way dude, thats a hefty chunk!
Make no mistake, even in today's MMO market, $15 a month is rather steep, especially considering multiple accounts are very very common among the rabid NC fans.
As for me, I really have nothing else to say until the open beta. That's when I decide if it was all for nothing, and KK loses about 10 accounts from me and my friends, or I decide to port my characters over and have a go at it. It's sink or swim now, and everyone knows it. Either the game sucks and you quit, or it's cool and you stay, no matter what other issues there might be. Of course with the draconian NDA on the closed beta, and the fact that they outright lied again about the release date, we're already leaning towards canceling, as I'm sure many others are.
See you in the dome, or see you in hell.
Doesn't matter what they do in the other unanswered areas, I can only afford one account and will be dropping the other one.
And before someone quotes me and adds shit like "oh man if you can't afford 2 accounts then you need to re-think your finances and huff huff huff, yadda this and bleh you suck you l00zAr™ yanka yank yank crap" :p
Some folks just can't do it because of real life situations, yes that extra 15 bucs a month may have to go towards something more important for the time being.
Whether or not the game is even going to be worth the extra money is another issue altogether.
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