View Full Version : One Lone voice "The Real Neocron 2"
V. Brett Walker
08-08-04, 04:36
As I sit ever so still in front of my keyboard, I wonder if I should write this or leave it alone. Sometimes it is important to simply remain quiet and allow the winds of change to make thier way, through your life. Other times, I feel it's best to say "What the fuck" and speak my mind as only I can. Many of you will no doubt be pissed at what I'm about to say, and to you I offer no apology. I'm not trying to stir up anything that hasn't beed screwed up beforehand. So let me get on with it. Before I start, let me say that this will be a rather long post.
I know many of you get pissed when players post long threads, but oh well, if you get tired of reading click on to something else, I can assure you, you won't in the lease bit hurt my feelings.
I once loved this game! Loved it so much that I found myself sleeping to it's music soundtrack at times. I've been in this games since the early stages of beta 2. I've been around a long time and seen a lot of stuff go wrong over the years. This newest adventure or Neocron 2 almost makes me laugh. Theres talks of money and item wipes and polls galore. I'd first like to address some issues, that have long since been ignored. For as long as I can remember, this game has had so many bugs, I can hardly count. Now, I don't program and never claimed to but what I see here, is a lack of understanding on both the players side, and KK's.
The idea of this game being named Neocron 2 is a joke. Furthermore, how can you call it "Beyond Dome of York" when theres no Dome to begin with? Sticking some bullshit number 2 on a game to attract new players, is a mistake. This game has so many problems as it stands, that it would take a team of programmers months, to sort it out. Where would I begin you ask?
Well, thanks for asking.
Servers: Here is one of many problems from the door. I have no idea what the fuck is going on across that pond of Atlantic, but I'd bet my new computer that ReaKKtor could hold more then 500 people on any server for more then 30 minutes, if thier life depended on it. So lets cut the bullshit about attracting more players. We the Neocron community, are small always has been, always will be. This is NOT Everquest, SWG or any other huge big budget company with tens of thousands of players. We are tiny people, very small in numbers but not in spirit or in soul. We love our game, love it well. But this is NOT what we deserve. We need to have servers that fit our small demands and run correctly despite it's small load. Pssstt....hey DEVS...would it kill you to let us know when the servers are down? A simple post, nothing fancy. For the love of God man, wake your asses up!
PVP: Hey look, I don't PK. I've never PKed a person in over 3 years. Why? Well, thanks again for asking. I don't PK because I don't care to. It's not that I'm soft or anything like that. It's just that for me, I've have tons of fun doing what I do and enjoying the game with my real life friends. But before you start
bitching about that, let me say this. We can all live in the same game. PKers and Carebears. Listen to this. The real DOY thats "Neocron--Dome of York" would have new servers added. Any of you heard of "Holts- The Planets?"
We make a server called Mars, the bringer of War. This server will have no safe zones....NONE! You can get ganked while getting poked. Then all the PVP players can go there and ******** each other 24/7.
We also add other servers. I'm thinking one called "Earth". On Earth, theres no PVP at all. Instead, the monsters become the main attraction. Now listed up KK, this is where you get your ass in gear. We change the ranking of every mob in the game. Warbots get changed from ***80/85 to ***250/250 Grims go from ***110/110 to ***350/350 The point in all this is to have players team with each other and head out on mass hunting trips. I know many of you think I've lost my mind and perhaps your not too far off, but again, I'd bet my new computer, there would be more players on Earth then Mars.
If this is too much to imagine KK, then consider this. Add another box for implants. In this one box, a player can either put a LE chip in, or not. No other implant can go there. Think about it. Don't get me wrong players, I respect the fact that many want to PVP and theres nothing wrong with that. But understand that there are many more who perfer not to be bothered with such things. In the real NC DOY, this would be adressed.
Vehicles: Oh please, what the world of Neocron needs, is not another vehicle of any kind. Hell, you can't even use the shit we got now. There should be parking garages at ever OP and Factory. I mean it, what's the point? What good does it do to lose your vehicle in transit, unable to get it back until you get to TH or MB or NC? What a waste.
Genreps: Another joke. Factions locking them down so that players have to walk from NC to Tescom? Get the fuck out of here! In the real NC: DOY there would be genreps placed just outside of OPs for players who choose not to be bothered with some faction frenzy. These players can come and go about thier business, leaving faction warriors to what they do.
60 second pass: I like this one, hell it just came to me, I swear. This would allow owners of appartments in PP 60 seconds to pass without getting ganked. Some players have not idea that PP is a war zone, until their in the game. Ever tried dodging bullets on the way home from work? The pass will cost about 200nc and allow a buff of sort around you, shielding you for 60 seconds.
Okay, you may or may not agree or even like any of the ideas mentioned, and thats okay with me. But the real point of this conversation is not so much to waste you time reading it, but to point out that theres a lot wrong with the game. so much should have been done in the last two years of retail. Where are the raids from TG? It was done once and crashed the server. Why is the balance of psimonks still an issure after 2 years? Why does a simple runned down city added in the desert, cause players to think that all will be corrected in Neocron? Why are there some many things missing from this game? Where are the ***star spiders? Why the fuck are the underground cities always closed? Why can't MC5 chips be dropped in other places of the Neocron world, so we all don't look like a bunch of asses, chasing one commander. What became of those cool hairy spiders from beta, damnit people so much is missing from this game! Two years of retail and we're back in beta..what a joke. Do you need me to come over there? catch a plane, take some time off from my casino job and show you how to run your shit?
What the hell has happened where it cost you 20 million credits for a fucking implant that drops upon death? 5 million or more for a slotted cursed soul?
Get the fuck out of here! Where the hell is the RPG in NC? Why not remove the skill points in the game and make it a planetside cyberworld then. ReaKKtor I love your game, but you have failed to bring it to the next level of performance. My advice to you is, get your shit together. You've got a lot of die hard players here that care an aweful lot about what you've created, stop jerking them off. Don't worry about Necorn 2 reakktor, get the first one working right. Then, and only then can we sit back and look towards the future, having sealed solid our past. Until then, this is a real joke. Hints of item and money wipes, that will no doubt show up again in two years. Heres a tip:
Don't fix the solution, fix the problem.
thanks for listening
Van Brett Walker
aka
VBW
aka
Ms.Walker
aka
Taylor T Walker
ex-machina
08-08-04, 04:57
But the real point of this conversation is not so much to waste you time reading it, but to point out that theres a lot wrong with the game.
Maybe true, but with you in charge there would be a hell of a lot more wrong with the game.
So, to put my response in ever-so-simple terms:
No.
erm is this supposed to be a rant? Everyone knows whats wrong with the game......
I love it just the way it is....
Just fix teh bugs :).. oh and add some content :)
Gen reps - fine maybe add more 3rd party
Vehicles - great , did u try vehicles in 2002?
PK - Keep ur Le in or shut the fuck ip already.... ur playing a MMO ur suppsoed to interact and gank the fuck out of ppl thats y NC rules..
Economy is screwed but it wil be fixed with the partial item wipe and cash wipe.
they need to implement the bounty system imo, that was my main supposed draw :D
I, once again, had a long reply typed out, pretty much agreeing with you.
You're pretty right about everything, but as you can already see by the responses, nobody here really cares.
Maybe someday KK will get off their duffs and fix this broken thing. It coulda been great, but we see who they want to keep around. And no, neocron 2 :lol: won't fix it, either.
sometimes I smash my keyboard randomly and after hitting reply. Other times I'm serious and take my time to post.
First off, very well written, has some nice thoughts behind it.
Second (and last) I doubt much will come from your post, but I respect your effort behind your post/rant.
Mr Friendly
08-08-04, 07:22
We change the ranking of every mob in the game. Warbots get changed from ***80/85 to ***250/250 Grims go from ***110/110 to ***350/350 The point in all this is to have players team with each other and head out on mass hunting trips.
1st problem is that would then give hella XP for just a WB & especially fire mobs...unless they reworked the xp system with ranks, which THEN would screw xp of mobs with normal ranks such as the aggies in the 20s 20/20
other probs i dont feel like pointing out cuz its 1:30 am @_@ & no im not one of those that have been offended. ur just another guy whos questioning things about the game that dont make sense. like one guy a few weeks ago that was arguing why a psi spell hits the person & makes em get knocked down forsay a hill or slanted slop from just casting it on ANOTHER person. etc
some things u just accept, especiallly since its a game man @_@ just play it & pretend it isnt real life or tryin to resemble it in any way.
^if ur post wasnt "exactly" bout that, o/w sry, didnt feel like readin past the 1st paragraph :)
Why does a simple runned down city added in the desert, cause players to think that all will be corrected in Neocron?
Plan file (http://www.neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NeoContent&file=index&pageID=190)
Have you bothered reading that at all?
Amen brother!
GREAT ideas, and you raise a lot of good issues, I hope KK takes notice of this and a few of the other laundry list posts out there, if they did half of this, they'd fix SO MUCH.
Amen
5 stars
Plus rep
Cookies
Rhubarb
Wee crabs
<3
Nice post. That's how I'd complain if I didn't enjoy ranting and raving so much.
Not sure I agree with all your ideas, but you do sum up most of the problems incase KK have missed them (sometimes I wonder...).
I think BDoY will be better than you give it credit for, but I'm not on the beta so I'm just going on faith. Neocron was great for two years until the feature creep caught up with itself. Now everything is out of balance. A reset (not an item wipe, just a gameplay rebirth) in BDoY could give two years more.
Love the LE idea, that would fix the goddamn newbie PKing. I love the GR idea too, wtf is the point of activating GRs in the wasteland when you can never use those?
Dont know what you mean by the "fix the vehicles" thing since it works fine with me. Sure it would be great if there are garages around the wasteland, even a few more would make a big difference.
But then again, I dont know if you are beta testing the "NC2" but if you are not, how can you know that some of those things have already being fixed? Yea sure Neocron doesnt feel "completely finished" game but thats a thing we all know right? Besides I dont know a single MMORPG that would be "completely finished", there are always things to be fixed.
I also agree that there should be more different kinds of mobs out there, and I think there should be less places like Launcher Pits or Aggies, and you should lower the xp needet for higher lvls. KK could also add more levels to the game with NC2 so you wouldnt spend 1 day to get a STR lvl at higher ranks. They could also add a feature that gives you much more CR and XP when you kill a MUCH higher lvl mob than your char is. That would make the hunting MUCH more interesting. Imagine that if you would hunt Mutant Soldiers at rank 3/4 you would get like 5x the xp you would normally get. It wouldnt unbalance the game (at lower lvls) since it would take more time and be much more dangerous to hunt high rank mobs at low lvl. It just would make the game lil bit more interesting.
Also KK should fix the money issue, yea all you guys whine about your hard earned 20mils. Well I belive that if all that money would go *poof* the NC world would be a better place to live. Yea I know, "I dont have to time to get that back!!1!!1!", well why do you need 20mils anyway? And I can tell that it will be much more fun to start a completely new char with only the 1200cr you get from MC5 and your starting equipment. How do I know that? Because when I reactivated my account 3 weeks ago I deleted my old chars. Yes I lost many good weapons and many good implants and like 10mil of cash but im happy that I did it. I have enjoyed NC much more now than I did before I canceled my account.
KK should add some viable ways to get cash, like increase the money you get from the jobs (alot). And add more jobs where you dont have to kill mobs. That would add more to RPing community aswell.
Well only thing I want to say that your ideas are good, but you prolly have no idea if those things are already fixed in NC2. Maybe the KK have listened what we have to say, and fixed those things in NC2 since we are the people who pay to play this game.
Dirk_Gently
08-08-04, 11:13
.... ur playing a MMO ur suppsoed to interact and gank the fuck out of ppl thats y NC rules..
No you are playing a MMORPG you are supposed to gank the fuck out of people WITHIN THE STORYLINE.
I disagree with at least 25% of the things you posted here Brett. I normally wouldn't mind, but you making demands here! If you added phrases like "I think that..", "do you think.." or "in my opinion..", rather than refering to things as "jokes" and making demands, I wouldn't be so annoyed with your post. I'm sorry.
Economy is screwed but it wil be fixed with the partial item wipe and cash wipe.AFAIK KK haven't yet signed the games' death warrant. O_o
The Ottoman
08-08-04, 11:54
I must say I pretty much feel the same way Brett Walker does. I don't think he's giving KK any ideas. He's just sharing his feelings and opinion. Only a few posts in 2 years shows that he's not a whiner so he's got a right to make a long post the way he did.
How have I experienced the game sofar? What has been reality for me? In my entire NC carreer I only pked three people. The first one was in PP. I was on the CA epic mission where you had to kill a TG. So I see this TG pe. My adrenaline goes skyhigh. I take out my Hew Liquid rifle and blast the guy to hell. To my suprise he went down very fast. Not hard because he was rank xx/20 something. I felt bad about it. Ofcourse this part of the mission wasn't succesfull.
The second was at Gaba. Word came a pker was around. So I sweep the area, see a tsunami spy, blast him with my CS in thousand pieces only to find out this was an innocent guy doing a bit of hunting.
Third was a 40 something red tank in the aggie cellars who was pking noobs and lowlevels. One of my clannies got killed by him. So naturally I give him with my CS what he deserved.
In all the OP fights I killed two runners. I must admitt I wasn't in that much OP wars so that might explain it.
I don't count the epic kills cause I payed those people for killing them.
It turned out that I was basically playing this game PvM. These are the facts. I sure would have liked to have more PvP but it just turned out otherwise. I really don't regret that cause I had and still have fun the way I play.
I also second his idea for higher level mobs and the LE idea. Though luck for those that play the game just for ganking players. People should have the choice. You should even have clans with only LE players. Diversity on all levels is the magic word.
Spikadelia
08-08-04, 13:28
I just love your work ;)
***** stars + 1 more voice
greendonkeyuk
08-08-04, 14:24
i think this guy makes some valid points.
i totally agree with walker, 5 stars !
Syntax-Error
08-08-04, 15:04
i love how all the "pkers" pick out the one point and say its all bad just cos he dosnt like getting "ganked". lol gota love the community
I dont agree with some of the ideas. such as the GR. this is after all a RPG and so it wouldnt make sence. i like it now. they just need to fix vehicals ( since whats the point when you can run faster than most of them )
The LE idea. good! but i think you should still be ressable/healable by a none LE player. but not visa vesa. as thats the main reason i remove my LE early is cos otherwise you can forget any heal/buff/ress support. and why should a player have to gimp himself just to avoid getting bullied by higher level players? if a capped monk dosnt wana PvP why the fuck should he. dont punish him for it for fuck sake!
I few things are amusingly inaccurate but I don't care enough to point them out and correct them. Just another whine thread with more words in that usual.
No one cares, get over it.
Dirk_Gently
08-08-04, 16:44
For:
I don't care enough to point them out .
Read:
I played CS for a week and got the tits ripped off me as I have no skills so I want to be in a game that lets me bully people who can't fight back.
trigger hurt
08-08-04, 16:44
I few things are amusingly inaccurate but I don't care enough to point them out and correct them. Just another whine thread with more words in that usual.
No one cares, get over it.
You know, you attitude sucks. every post you make, our eyes are assaulted by your sig telling us to kkeep the faith, and here you are, dumping shit on someone because he loves the game but wants to see it fixed. You are a hypocrite.
I bet I can safely bet that a large chunk of the people who have left in the last 5 or 6 months have left because of people who have attitudes like you and me. Difference is, I'm trying a different route. Gonna try giving positive feedback for a change and stop with the negative shit. You on the other hand, seem to be continuing down the path.
Wake up man. People leave this game because the community is shitty to them. Of course, some leave because there are bugs in the game, but I bet, if you asked just 10 people who have left in the past few months why they left, most of them will make references to asshole pk'rs, jackasses on forums and ingame and an intolerance to people abusing them simply because they can.
No you are playing a MMORPG you are supposed to gank the fuck out of people WITHIN THE STORYLINE.
There hasn't been a storyline since bout febuary 2003.
Storyline = events and on going slightly
Random ganking = constantly except at events :)
I disagree with a lot of what he said, maybe its just me and typing a long post doesn't qualify for being brainy :)
Dirk_Gently
08-08-04, 17:03
Storyline = events and on going slightly
True however the one coherent part of the storyline is the Faction system (granted it isn't perfect but it's there) and people don't stick to it.
I agree with Genty ; )
A lot of your problems are because you are trying to play this as a non pvp mmorpg, which you simply can't do. Frankly that's just as bad as the cs kiddies who play this as a purely pvp mmorpg. Neither of you are right. Neither Earth nor Mars as you named the nonpvp/pvp servers would work out. To put it simply, Neocron does not have enough pvp to satisfy Mars, nor does it have enough content to satisfy Earth.
What Neocron does have is an interesting mix of Mars/Earth, that's were it stands out. If you want pvp oriented mmorpg go to Planetside. If you want non pvp oriented mmorpg go to any number of other mmorpgs like Everquest.
I like neocron because it supports a wide range of playstyles. Sometimes I feel pvp oriented and can go have fun with clanmates taking an Op. Othertimes I don't feel like fighting people so I grab some other clanmates and go hunting.
Agree with almost everything. I've even tried suggesting the LE-only implant slot so we're not gimped up for implants if we just want to PvM. But that idea was ignored by the primarily PvP community that doesn't care, and neither will they care about your long rant. A shame really, but it's the thing I've come to expect from this community. So I am bitter and bored and can see less and less of the game that Neocron could be. The Neocron that had so much potential, the game that became my FIRST pay-to-play purchase (Never wanted to play any of the other games, didn't feel they were worth my money).
But now I'm just bitter and if KK fuck up DoY like they probably will, odds are myself and quite a few more people like me will quit and become bitter opponents of Neocron...
I dont agree with all of what you have mentioned, however I say each to there own.
However the problems that I have with neocron is the lack of bugs and the time it takes for a bug to be fixed or the lack of fixing the bug and just disabling something to get around the problem.
However recently the thing that has made me decide not to buy NC-BDoY is the lack of communication with kk. I have cancelled all of my accounts again and dont plan on coming back not because of the game but of the company that is creating it. I love the game, its got the best pvp system out there. I am sure that neocron 2 when/if it comes out it will be good and will bring in some people.
However I cant allow myself to support a game even if I like it when the people that are running it dont care about there player base. We have been mislead more times than I can remember.
Well thats all I wanted to say.
For:
I don't care enough to point them out.
Read:
I played CS for a week and got the tits ripped off me as I have no skills so I want to be in a game that lets me bully people who can't fight back.
say what? You have an interesting interpretation of words.
You know, you attitude sucks. every post you make, our eyes are assaulted by your sig telling us to kkeep the faith, and here you are, dumping shit on someone because he loves the game but wants to see it fixed. You are a hypocrite.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to point this out, i know my attitude sucks, it never used to be like this but it has evolved to what the rest of the communities attitude is like. However, mine differs slightly, I am negative towards most of the community while most of the community is negative towards KK. Do I give a shit? Nope, because I enjoy casting my views on people, however twisted or increasingly insaine they may be. The reaction is so fun.
I bet I can safely bet that a large chunk of the people who have left in the last 5 or 6 months have left because of people who have attitudes like you and me. Difference is, I'm trying a different route. Gonna try giving positive feedback for a change and stop with the negative shit. You on the other hand, seem to be continuing down the path.
Aye, they do, however my attitude has only been like that to past few months, I am not accountable for the many that left a long time before that. Paths are fun to walk down, especially crazy paving!
Wake up man. People leave this game because the community is shitty to them. Of course, some leave because there are bugs in the game, but I bet, if you asked just 10 people who have left in the past few months why they left, most of them will make references to asshole pk'rs, jackasses on forums and ingame and an intolerance to people abusing them simply because they can.
I know, I don't disagree with you, your telling me nothing new here. However I bet you can't find anyone who left due to any of my ingame actions. It's not like I am highly abusive on the forums either. People join and leave every game, shit happens, nothing I do is gonna change that.
Nice post dude, some good points...
I really don't know what I'm doing. Like others, Neocron was my first pay-to-play, none of the others were worth my money. Now, though, I'm losing faith..
Serious unprofessionalism.
I really don't know if I 'm going to renew my accounts.They close in 2 weeks.
I WILL buy Beyond the Dome of York (i like THAT name better :p), however, probably not on September 1st, eventually, when I feel like it, maybe lol
Lots of other games out there, I've barely logged into Neocron in a few days..
It's a shame, really..Neocron had a lot of promise, it should've OWNED the competition..maybe with a better company, it might have.
I seriously doubt NC2 will be any better, sure, some new content, a new city, new vehicules..it'll keep the veterans busy for a week or two I'd imagine, before they realize that they are bored again.
GG KK
Nice try
I also agree that there should be more different kinds of mobs out there, and I think there should be less places like Launcher Pits or Aggies, and you should lower the xp needet for higher lvls. KK could also add more levels to the game with NC2 so you wouldnt spend 1 day to get a STR lvl at higher ranks.
No, that would completely mess up the very delicate balance that already exists in the game.
Also KK should fix the money issue, yea all you guys whine about your hard earned 20mils. Well I belive that if all that money would go *poof* the NC world would be a better place to live. Yea I know, "I dont have to time to get that back!!1!!1!", well why do you need 20mils anyway? And I can tell that it will be much more fun to start a completely new char with only the 1200cr you get from MC5 and your starting equipment. How do I know that? Because when I reactivated my account 3 weeks ago I deleted my old chars. Yes I lost many good weapons and many good implants and like 10mil of cash but im happy that I did it. I have enjoyed NC much more now than I did before I canceled my account.
I've done that too, and started from scratch. But that in no way means everyone's hard earned money should be lost. This is a post apocalyptic world! Money is power! Why the hell do all the players need to be equally poor? This is not a communist world. There are those who are rich and those who are poor. Why should I lose millions and millions of credits simply because YOU are not as rich as I am? (YOU is not directed at the poster but anyone who wants a money wipe because they think the prices are bad). Fact is, the market in NC is quite free... If the price is high, then that means that someone can afford it. If someone will pay 10 million for an item, then that item is WORTH 10 million credits. If no one could buy it, then it would surely come down in price. That's what economics and the basic driving force - supply and demand, are all about!
KK should add some viable ways to get cash, like increase the money you get from the jobs (alot). And add more jobs where you dont have to kill mobs. That would add more to RPing community aswell.
Agree with that one definitely. I think they should add some more complex jobs, maybe like mini-epics that would give the person plenty of cash as payment for exposing them to danger. (That would be things involving going into enemy territory and what not. Missions are faction based, so you can always make sure you are not sending the person to friendly territory and then pay them 50k for that or what not.)
Well only thing I want to say that your ideas are good, but you prolly have no idea if those things are already fixed in NC2. Maybe the KK have listened what we have to say, and fixed those things in NC2 since we are the people who pay to play this game.
Yeah right. And I'm Santa Claus. If KK listened to us at all, then there wouldn't be all this quiet and lies and BS that has been going on for years now. There is no way they are not aware of how upset the community is about the lack of ANY information with the release date being this close. And yet they choose to ignore us. (Yes, they are IGNORING us. If there were issues why they couldn't give us the info and they cared enough to talk to us, we'd at least have been told "Sorry, but the information you are asking about cannot be divulged at this time". The fact that even such a thing was never said means we are being completely ignored.)
I still don't see why people think DoY will be the savior of Neocron. It's a friggin patch, there is almost nothing new added. Did you read the info that was released? They updated the engine by recompiling it using DX9SDK, they made a few tiny tweaks here and there to support higher resolution textures. I doubt any major bugs were fixed and most likely more major bugs will be introduced. There are hardly any new features introduced either. So basically all we get is the same old Neocron with slightly better textures, a few more vehicles and a bunch of extra zones to account for DoY and it's internal areas. (Yes, I still think they should have honored their promise and made the damn thing free. They've been teasing us with it for over a year and a half now! Diverting money from the game we CURRENTLY play and pay for and using DoY as an excuse not to support the current game. And now they want to charge us for DoY. This totally sucks.)
Dirk_Gently
08-08-04, 20:22
I'm Santa Claus.[ edited ]
GambitFlame
08-08-04, 20:32
If this is too much to imagine KK, then consider this. Add another box for implants. In this one box, a player can either put a LE chip in, or not. No other implant can go there. Think about it. Don't get me wrong players, I respect the fact that many want to PVP and theres nothing wrong with that. But understand that there are many more who perfer not to be bothered with such things. In the real NC DOY, this would be adressed.
Nice post and i really realy like this idea, its so people who choose not to PVP dont get the malus of only having 3 slots for stat enhancing implants. I think its a great idea :)
Totally...
I understand that this game is heavily based on Pvp, however, in many other games, it is an option..
+1 brainslots for the PvM'ers..!
We don't need more ways to make money - we need more ways to spend it.
wrt the LE - something needs to be done but I prefer an out-of-game toggle to an in-game implant. In-game systems never make RP sense, especially now KK are turning the game RvB. This is one of the oldest debates on here though so hit "search" if you want a longer debate.
The game needs much thought, I sincerely hope that some was given for the BDoY release... But we won't know until it comes really.
I love threads like this, especially the polite well-written ones. Why? Because there's never a response to them, and that speaks more than a paragraph or two ever could.
Enter stage right...
Alright for one...just leave the LE in. I don't really think it's that hard. I started a pistol spy with a couple friends (one a PPU and the other a tank) and we are all about 65/55 and we still have our LEs in. I really don't see the point to complain and in my opinion its stupid to take it out if you are worried about PK.
Do you really think it makes financial sense to work on an antiquated game engine where fixing the bugs would be a Herculean task where on the other hand you have an engine thats nearly completed that COULD fix the bugs?
Once again IMO that's a really dumb suggestion and I don't think you'd run KK very well.
And again we see the "oh its not a new game its an expansion" junk. There are ways of defining what is and is not an expansion and im pretty sure the plan files posted earlier sums it up.
You seem to make alot of assumptions about the future of the game... NC2 might solve the above problems and it might not. I can't tell and niether can you.
steweygrrr
08-08-04, 23:01
I agree with Genty ; )
A lot of your problems are because you are trying to play this as a non pvp mmorpg, which you simply can't do. Frankly that's just as bad as the cs kiddies who play this as a purely pvp mmorpg. Neither of you are right. Neither Earth nor Mars as you named the nonpvp/pvp servers would work out. To put it simply, Neocron does not have enough pvp to satisfy Mars, nor does it have enough content to satisfy Earth.
What Neocron does have is an interesting mix of Mars/Earth, that's were it stands out. If you want pvp oriented mmorpg go to Planetside. If you want non pvp oriented mmorpg go to any number of other mmorpgs like Everquest.
I like neocron because it supports a wide range of playstyles. Sometimes I feel pvp oriented and can go have fun with clanmates taking an Op. Othertimes I don't feel like fighting people so I grab some other clanmates and go hunting.
Couldnt have said it better meself Carinth.
We make a server called Mars, the bringer of War. This server will have no safe zones....NONE! You can get ganked while getting poked. Then all the PVP players can go there and ******** each other 24/7.
We also add other servers. I'm thinking one called "Earth". On Earth, theres no PVP at all. Instead, the monsters become the main attraction. Now listed up KK, this is where you get your ass in gear. We change the ranking of every mob in the game. Warbots get changed from ***80/85 to ***250/250 Grims go from ***110/110 to ***350/350 The point in all this is to have players team with each other and head out on mass hunting trips. I know many of you think I've lost my mind and perhaps your not too far off, but again, I'd bet my new computer, there would be more players on Earth then Mars.
Everyone who usually takes their LEs out would probably be the ones who go to mars and those who usually leave it in would go to Earth. Now I'm no expert but I'm pretty damn sure theres more people with their LEs out.
Everyone who usually takes their LEs out would probably be the ones who go to mars and those who usually leave it in would go to Earth. Now I'm no expert but I'm pretty damn sure theres more people with their LEs out.
Not true - many people remove their LE to join clans (the only way to get a shared appartment and bank account or a communal chat channel) or to use the last brain-slot without necessarily wanting full-on non-consentual PvP.
Alright for one...just leave the LE in. I don't really think it's that hard. I started a pistol spy with a couple friends (one a PPU and the other a tank) and we are all about 65/55 and we still have our LEs in. I really don't see the point to complain and in my opinion its stupid to take it out if you are worried about PK.
:rolleyes: Gee, now let's see... How many people have ready access to an LE'd PPU? Try to start a new spy with LE in and go around looking for someone LE'd to level with or tempt your fate and go out on your own. If you can make it to /55 then in any reasonable amount of time, THEN you can tell us that you don't see a problem there...
Why are there so many hypocrits on this board?
Do you really think it makes financial sense to work on an antiquated game engine where fixing the bugs would be a Herculean task where on the other hand you have an engine thats nearly completed that COULD fix the bugs?
Once again IMO that's a really dumb suggestion and I don't think you'd run KK very well.
Um... Where exactly did you get the notion that they have a nearly completed [new] engine exactly? All they did was take the old engine and recompiled it with the DX9 libraries. If they were making a brand new engine, I'd give them kudos and all, but it's the SAME DAMN ANTIQUATED ENGINE! It just got a little plastic surgery to make it look younger. But botox injections can only do so much you know...
And again we see the "oh its not a new game its an expansion" junk. There are ways of defining what is and is not an expansion and im pretty sure the plan files posted earlier sums it up.
You seem to make alot of assumptions about the future of the game... NC2 might solve the above problems and it might not. I can't tell and niether can you.
Yes, the plan file released barely qualifies DoY as an expansion. Go check out what a typical PAID FOR expansion in a normal MMO is like... The content they have STILL qualifies as a patch and should come free. I mean look what kind of things a typical patch for a typical MMO includes.
Everyone who usually takes their LEs out would probably be the ones who go to mars and those who usually leave it in would go to Earth. Now I'm no expert but I'm pretty damn sure theres more people with their LEs out.
I took my LE out for only 2 reasons. Can't level on my own at all without a PPU thanks to KK making PPUs so important even for PvM by making mobs nastier (And no, I do not like playing PEs who can level very well solo). The other reason is because I really wanted to use that brain slot for something important. 120/120 mobs are tough enough as is on their own, considering they were balanced for capped players with PPU support. Now I am supposed to gimp myself and use drugs because I simply don't like people shooting me in the back? I think that's unreasonable.
So no, you're wrong. The current LE vs. non-LE player population is absolutely not an indicator of how many people would play on a non-PvP server.
Dirk_Gently
09-08-04, 02:53
So no, you're wrong. The current LE vs. non-LE player population is absolutely not an indicator of how many people would play on a non-PvP server.
I wouldn't play on a totally non PVP server but I would play on one where there were set areas for PvP or where the punishments for random ganking were fairly hefty. I'd like that.
:rolleyes: Gee, now let's see... How many people have ready access to an LE'd PPU? Try to start a new spy with LE in and go around looking for someone LE'd to level with or tempt your fate and go out on your own. If you can make it to /55 then in any reasonable amount of time, THEN you can tell us that you don't see a problem there...
Why are there so many hypocrits on this board?
I don't see how that has anything to do with hypocrisy. There isn't a problem there. I did it. If you have friends it's a simple 3 step proccess.
You go up to a friend...
Step 1: Do you want to make a new character and help me level?
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit!
Do you know HOW MANY people I see below the level to wear a LE and they simply don't? Your statement does not seem to hold water.
Um... Where exactly did you get the notion that they have a nearly completed [new] engine exactly? All they did was take the old engine and recompiled it with the DX9 libraries. If they were making a brand new engine, I'd give them kudos and all, but it's the SAME DAMN ANTIQUATED ENGINE! It just got a little plastic surgery to make it look younger. But botox injections can only do so much you know...
Yes, the plan file released barely qualifies DoY as an expansion. Go check out what a typical PAID FOR expansion in a normal MMO is like... The content they have STILL qualifies as a patch and should come free. I mean look what kind of things a typical patch for a typical MMO includes.
Ok lets compare:
SWG - Jump to Lightspeed
-----------
-15 spaceships
-10 space sectors
-four all-new professions
-100-plus space-centered missions
-two new species
Everquest : Planes of Power
-----------
"This expansion will focus mainly on providing content to the highest levels of the game, allowing players to become even more powerful. We plan to add twenty zones to the existing world in this expansion."
-Up to 18 new planar zones
-new quests and challenges
-Two planar cities
-A central storyline links the content from every zone into one compelling quest
-Further character progression making players even more powerful
Final Fantasy 11
-----------
New zones (about 40)
New NPCs
New monsters
Alright now lets stack that to Neocron....
-3D engine that allows for DX9
-40 New zones
-Reworked faction system (which I might add is half the game/story)
-Cyberspace and hacknet
-Player built vendors
-More ambience for wastelands
-New character models
-Customizable apartments
-New monsters
-New vehicles
-More sex!
-New GUI
-Reworked StockX
-WoC Skills
-Miscellaneous stuff
Now lets compare prices!
Everquest expansions averaged about $20-30 US dollars.
Jump to Lightspeed : $30
FFXI CoP : $30
Ahh lets see now given what Neocron has listed for current owners is (E)19.95.
So lets convert that to US Dollars...thats about $24 now we take off one month of free play time. So thats uhh...$10. (provided by http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html)
Net price : $14.
Doing math : Priceless.
I don't see how that has anything to do with hypocrisy. There isn't a problem there. I did it. If you have friends it's a simple 3 step proccess.
You go up to a friend...
Step 1: Do you want to make a new character and help me level?
Step 2:
Step 3: Profit!
Do you know HOW MANY people I see below the level to wear a LE and they simply don't? Your statement does not seem to hold water.
Well, all my friends have long since left. All the RL friends I brought into this game have quit it and are very bitter about it. All the in-game friends I made over the last 2 years have also left. The people who are still there, I don't like and don't care enough to even talk to most of them. There's just no point in most cases. So again, how is my statement invalid?
Ok lets compare:
SWG - Jump to Lightspeed
-----------
-15 spaceships
-10 space sectors
-four all-new professions
-100-plus space-centered missions
-two new species
Everquest : Planes of Power
-----------
"This expansion will focus mainly on providing content to the highest levels of the game, allowing players to become even more powerful. We plan to add twenty zones to the existing world in this expansion."
-Up to 18 new planar zones
-new quests and challenges
-Two planar cities
-A central storyline links the content from every zone into one compelling quest
-Further character progression making players even more powerful
Final Fantasy 11
-----------
New zones (about 40)
New NPCs
New monsters
Alright now lets stack that to Neocron....
-3D engine that allows for DX9
-40 New zones
-Reworked faction system (which I might add is half the game/story)
-Cyberspace and hacknet
-Player built vendors
-More ambience for wastelands
-New character models
-Customizable apartments
-New monsters
-New vehicles
-More sex!
-New GUI
-Reworked StockX
-WoC Skills
-Miscellaneous stuff
Yes, let's compare. Have you been to any of those MMOs? Have you seen the size of those zones? It's not about quantity, it's about quality, and the fact is that all the new zones added to NC (all 40 or what not of them) can fit in about 1/2 a zone in FFXI for instance.
Engine? Um... Gee, recompile an ancient piece of crap engine with new libraries and all of a sudden you get something better? NOPE! Doesn't work that way. Actually improving the engine would require a LOT of work. More than KK could ever perform in any reasonable span of time nor will it be cost effective. So no, the new engine is just an old engine compiled with DX9 libs. That's ALL!
Reworked faction system - Don't know anything about it. So can't say if it's good or bad, but I am skeptical.
Cyberspace and hacknet - I am actually happy that we're FINALLY getting it. Hope it works as it's supposed to as well... (I have nightmares about it being bugged for months and KK telling us they are busy with something else).
Player built vendors - Every other MMO has had that implemented AGES ago. This is like being happy you finally have running water when you're not living in a 3rd world country. We asked for it for AGES. So I don't consider this as a bonus at all, but as an "It's about bloody time!" issue.
More ambience for wastelands - Yeah... Would be nice if they weren't simply adding some scenery to the desolate deserts that are the wastelands of Neocron. Any other MMO I've ever seen or tried has had actual good scenery, so this once again is NOT some added bonus, this should have been there 2 years ago along with many other things (such as vendoors for instance).
New character models - Nice, but yet again, many games released BEFORE NC have had this feature. But I will admit it is nice to have, so won't badmouth it too much.
Customizable apartments - YAY! This one I actually like a lot. It's a great thing to have. PLEASE PLEASE let it not be bugged to all hell when it is out and be relatively easy to use (So you don't have to rearrange things for hours just to get things to look right instead of them being crooked, out of place, not quite where you wanted them to etc...)
New monsters - Um... Let's see... Neocron has about what? 30 distinct monsters? (Fine a few more, but they are simply renamed scaled versions of the same mob. Don't see much difference between a Doomreaper and a Grim Reaper.) Now any other game? I have yet to see one that had less than 100. Neocron has like 30! And that includes the roaches and spiders! Yet again, the diversity that should have been there when NC first came out! (And don't even get me started on the lack of diversity in weapons and armors and many many other things).
New vehicles - That's kinda cool. But overall not a very big deal considering how bad the game engine is and how many vehicles you'll end up using and losing due to bugs.... So I don't see this as helping anything at all.
More sex! - Sorry, I'm not an immature pimply-faced teenager. I find all the "sex" BS offensive. (No, not the Pepper Park district. The fact that "sex" has replaced "Hello" for the majority of the idiots in the game). I honestly wish there was LESS sex. Or better yet, remove the emote completely and filter out lines containing this word!
New GUI - *shrugs* Didn't have any problems with the current one. So it's not worth the money spent on DoY... Just eyecandy. (Though other MMOs have changed their GUIs with expansions, so I don't know).
Reworked StockX - If it actually works and allows people to make (or lose) money and lots of it, then kudos on this one. But again, I am skeptical. So doesn't impress me.
WoC Skills - Yeah? So? All MMOs add some more high-end content in expansions. And sometimes just in patches too...
Miscellaneous stuff - And this one is different from a patch HOW? Not to mention that other MMOs usually have a lot more of this one in both patches and expansions than Neocron does.
Now lets compare prices!
Everquest expansions averaged about $20-30 US dollars.
Jump to Lightspeed : $30
FFXI CoP : $30
Ahh lets see now given what Neocron has listed for current owners is (E)19.95.
So lets convert that to US Dollars...thats about $24 now we take off one month of free play time. So thats uhh...$10. (provided by http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html)
Net price : $14.
Doing math : Priceless.
Yes, let's do math then... 2 years of paying $10/hr... Let's say $5 of that goes towards ongoing costs (server maintenance, hardware repairs and bandwidth. I'm being overly generous here). And the other $5 going to pay for patches, support, new content... Basically to pay the salaries of KK employees so they'd actually WORK on the game... Now 2 years = 24 months * $5 = $120...
Why am I saying this? Because KK's response any time we asked why Neocron wasn't being maintained properly was because their resources are diverted to making DoY (back then a FREE expansion) which will kick ass and make it all worth while and fix all the problems.
So let's sum this up, $120 + $14 = $134.... The most expensive expansion EVER IMO.
Like you said: Doing math : Priceless.
Promethius
09-08-04, 04:49
Maybe true, but with you in charge there would be a hell of a lot more wrong with the game.
So, to put my response in ever-so-simple terms:
No.
roger.
-Prom
Doing math : Priceless.
doing math : boring and hard :p
ex-machina
09-08-04, 05:18
Well, all my friends have long since left. All the RL friends I brought into this game have quit it and are very bitter about it. All the in-game friends I made over the last 2 years have also left. The people who are still there, I don't like and don't care enough to even talk to most of them. There's just no point in most cases. So again, how is my statement invalid?
Engine? Um... Gee, recompile an ancient piece of crap engine with new libraries and all of a sudden you get something better? NOPE! <snip>
Reworked faction system - Don't know anything about it. So can't say if it's good or bad, but I am skeptical.
Cyberspace and hacknet - I am actually happy that we're FINALLY getting it. Hope it works as it's supposed to as well... (I have nightmares about it being bugged for months and KK telling us they are busy with something else).
Player built vendors - Every other MMO has had that implemented AGES ago. <snip>
More ambience for wastelands - Yeah... Would be nice if they weren't simply adding some scenery to the desolate deserts that are the wastelands of Neocron. <snip>
New character models - Nice, but yet again, many games released BEFORE NC have had this feature. <snip>
Customizable apartments - YAY! This one I actually like a lot. <snip>
New monsters - Um... Let's see... Neocron has about what? 30 distinct monsters? <snip>
New vehicles - <snip>
More sex! - Sorry, <snip>
New GUI - *shrugs* <snip>
Reworked StockX - <snip>
WoC Skills - <snip>
Miscellaneous stuff - <snip>
Yes, let's do math then... <snip>
Why am I saying this? <snip>
Like you said: Doing math : Priceless.
So that's, what, one positive? I have a question Lareolan - all of your real life friends have left, all of your in-game friends have left, and the people left over you don't want to play with and you hate all but one feature on the BDoY list, why the fuck are you still here ranting on the message board to anyone who'll listen? All those other MMO's have done this before Neocron? First off, last time I checked it wasn't a race. Second - go play them and fill their message board with poorly thought-out critisism - god knows you will eventually, you're clearly impossible to please.
Oh, how I'd hate to be your partner.
More sex! - Sorry, I'm not an immature pimply-faced teenager. I find all the "sex" BS offensive. (No, not the Pepper Park district. The fact that "sex" has replaced "Hello" for the majority of the idiots in the game). I honestly wish there was LESS sex. Or better yet, remove the emote completely and filter out lines containing this word!
That's not valid then - the "more sex" being referred to is new models and animations for the strippers, the sex emote isn't changing at all. You have to remember this is a game aimed at adults. Sure, "immature pimply-faced teenagers" form a large part of the more annoying aspect of the game, but why adult players like you and I should have to suffer for their immaturity, I don't know. I like the sex emote, it still makes me smile. It isn't getting changed, afaik, and it has no reason to - so I don't know why you feel that's worthy of detraction in your attack on BDoY.
Ive played in all of those MMOs save Everquest.
Just because you asked for something and it wasn't implemented does not change the fact that it is now being implemented. You are really basing it on what you expected there to be and what there is going to be...
Alot of your skepticism stems from problems with the current state of the game. I understand where you are coming from because ive been in the same pot. I took a break for a year and came back. Now if KK can't pull this off and make a functioning game then i'll go elsewhere, but I will reserve my judgement until then.
And this one is different from a patch HOW? Not to mention that other MMOs usually have a lot more of this one in both patches and expansions than Neocron does.
Because it is in addition to everything else above, which in my opinion is alot more than what the other current MMOs offer.
Yes, let's do math then... 2 years of paying $10/hr... Let's say $5 of that goes towards ongoing costs (server maintenance, hardware repairs and bandwidth. I'm being overly generous here). And the other $5 going to pay for patches, support, new content... Basically to pay the salaries of KK employees so they'd actually WORK on the game... Now 2 years = 24 months * $5 = $120...
Why am I saying this? Because KK's response any time we asked why Neocron wasn't being maintained properly was because their resources are diverted to making DoY (back then a FREE expansion) which will kick ass and make it all worth while and fix all the problems.
So let's sum this up, $120 + $14 = $134.... The most expensive expansion EVER IMO.
Yea and that's why SWG, FFXI, etc are $15 and above. They have you pay EXTRA for more characters and you can't freely interchange between servers.
What do you expect with the MMO with the cheapest rate? I have had fun playing the game despite the bugs.
Staying is a decision you made not the fault of KK despite that it has taken them so long to make DoY and change it into a "new game", but if I remember what they were going to add back then to what they will now I am absolutely glad they took thier time.
Like you said: Doing math : Priceless.
For everything else there is cheese.
So that's, what, one positive? I have a question Lareolan - all of your real life friends have left, all of your in-game friends have left, and the people left over you don't want to play with and you hate all but one feature on the BDoY list, why the fuck are you still here ranting on the message board to anyone who'll listen? All those other MMO's have done this before Neocron? First off, last time I checked it wasn't a race. Second - go play them and fill their message board with poorly thought-out critisism - god knows you will eventually, you're clearly impossible to please.
I am possible to please. It is because I love what Neocron COULD be, that I am so critical when I see KK going in what I consider to be the wrong way. And I am STILL hoping that in time, KK will unleash the true RP potential of Neocron and I will be able to invite all my friends back in without feeling ashamed (I am terribly ashamed I invited those people in at the moment). Yes, my rants are not well thought out, because they are all typed out in the heat of the moment. But I have very strong feelings about this game and I think that if I huff and puff enough maybe some of it will get through and make KK take a step in the right direction. Even if it is just in the customer support area.
That's not valid then - the "more sex" being referred to is new models and animations for the strippers, the sex emote isn't changing at all. You have to remember this is a game aimed at adults. Sure, "immature pimply-faced teenagers" form a large part of the more annoying aspect of the game, but why adult players like you and I should have to suffer for their immaturity, I don't know. I like the sex emote, it still makes me smile. It isn't getting changed, afaik, and it has no reason to - so I don't know why you feel that's worthy of detraction in your attack on BDoY.
Pardon me, I misunderstood this one. But my point is still valid, the fact that the "sex" emote is just annoying and encourages morons to spam. (Yet another thing all MMO's I've seen have taken care of, all except Neocron).
Richard Slade
09-08-04, 05:38
Allow me to say: Monthly cost pwnz ALL arguments.
Edit: And the sex emote is something that makes NC NC, simple as that
No talking down on the sexing cuz I bet everyone here, that has friends,
has had asome type of fun with the sexing
You know, you attitude sucks. every post you make, our eyes are assaulted by your sig telling us to kkeep the faith, and here you are, dumping shit on someone because he loves the game but wants to see it fixed. You are a hypocrite.
I bet I can safely bet that a large chunk of the people who have left in the last 5 or 6 months have left because of people who have attitudes like you and me. Difference is, I'm trying a different route. Gonna try giving positive feedback for a change and stop with the negative shit. You on the other hand, seem to be continuing down the path.
Wake up man. People leave this game because the community is shitty to them. Of course, some leave because there are bugs in the game, but I bet, if you asked just 10 people who have left in the past few months why they left, most of them will make references to asshole pk'rs, jackasses on forums and ingame and an intolerance to people abusing them simply because they can.I know you and I have had our differences in the past, but I want to say that you deserve some + rep for that post. Of course since some people have been abusing it and it has been revoked, I can't do that. So you'll just have to settle for this post. :p
I really think that Brett has some valid points. It remains to be seen what exactly happens with NC2 though.
--Stryfe
Allow me to say: Monthly cost pwnz ALL arguments.
Edit: And the sex emote is something that makes NC NC, simple as that
No talking down on the sexing cuz I bet everyone here, that has friends,
has had asome type of fun with the sexing
I have not ever used sex" nor have any of my friends, so you lost your bet right off the bat there. I also speak in proper sentences both here and in the game. I use basic punctuation, capitalization and I have never used "pwn" or any such. At best I use "LOL" (or "ROFL") and "BRB" on occasion.
So you lost the bet, what do I win? :D
Richard Slade
09-08-04, 05:51
I have not ever used sex" nor have any of my friends, so you lost your bet right off the bat there. I also speak in proper sentences both here and in the game. I use basic punctuation, capitalization and I have never used "pwn" or any such. At best I use "LOL" (or "ROFL") and "BRB" on occasion.
So you lost the bet, what do I win? :D
Alts doesn't count dude, sorry.
I also spell correctly, when I'm not at the puter with the assy keyboard.
However I've sexed quite much during the last two years, and pwned and everything else.
Why?
Cuz I can and it's fun to do.
dryball
dark_reaper
09-08-04, 09:44
Good Post, i give it a *****
Here is two things i would like to add.
Noob Ganking. I do not believe it reqardless of faction. They cannot defend thier selves. If you want to gank someone go play CS, that is what i do. I am not a n00b but i think it is just wrong. I know some of you that do believe it. Go pick on some one your own size or look for size, or you might end up with a player stronger than you are and get ganked your self. Only time you should well not gank a n00b is when the noob is trying to kill you. Then kill him.
My other problem is Allied killings. Lately I have been running into that on Pluto by multiple reports. We already have several KOS. When allied people kill each other it should be dealt with by the factions. If an allied member kills you the faction should kick you or take away lots of FS.
People that loves ganking other people just for fun. Go play Counterstrike. That is what it is there for. Neocron is an MMORPG, the key words RPG. You role play. Not running around ganking every one you see. You should only gank enemys, at your own rank or above, or people that can defend them selves, it is worthless ganking defensless people, it is completely worthless.
I rest my case.
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