View Full Version : PPU Reworking For the better of NC
Promethius
07-08-04, 23:25
Its no knew news that this game directly evolves around PPUs, as in for Lvling, Pking, and OP waring.
I personally would like to see the game to not depend as MUCH on the role of the PPU. So ultimatly I'm suggesting a sufficient nerf of there shelters and there heals. (aiming towards a 15% nerf)
Antiflamesheild: PPUs will still be the strongest defensive class, They STILL will be at every OP war, and still a necessity for adaquet lvling. I'm also not making this thread because I myself can't kill a PPU or any other ignorant reason. Like I've stated I believe this game would be more enjoyable If the role of the PPu was weakened.
I'm not saying a PPU should be brought down alot easier or anything like that. Just a minor nerf to self buffs and to foriegn casted buffs.
Also another Idea is that a Heal should be treated as foriegn casted aswell , there for a PPU could heal themself alot better than others but it shouldn't be 50% nerf for foriegn casted like current shelters. (Tho i see many disagreeing with this for if a tl3 heal foreign casted on a PPU will be even more effective)
If a PPUs shelters and Heals were weakened, it would heighten the roles of other characters, more specifically Tanks. With there AoE doing more dmg to enemys than just a 20 dmg (which a sanctum can heal in about 1 tick). Possibly we might see more PEs at OPs if they could atleast cause dmg to a sheltered character.
Overall I see Neocron being more enjoyable for the majority if the role of the PPU was lessened and others heightened.
Edit: If your going to Vote Plz post your thoughts
-Prom
PPU now is balanced for PvM
if it gets nerfed to balance PvP then PvM would be extra hard.
Its realy hard to do the tunnels even with 2 ppus atm.. and if you nerf the heals / buffs etc then it might be impposible.
I think they need to be left as they are atm but I also think that there is something needed to be done to them.
as everybody knows, KK got a bad method with dealing with things so its better for things to be left as they are.
If you read a thread on this page about an Op War, Clan A defeated Clan B whislt Clan B had more PPU's and a Spy in Clan A killed 3 PPU's apparently with SH/HL. So whats the problem with PPU's at the moment?
Jesterthegreat
07-08-04, 23:56
PPU's should never be a neccessity.
make them a bonus, but not a neccessity.
btw - i have a ** PPU on pluto, im not some PPU hater... but i just dont think a PPU should make a fight. last night i was in PP1 (I'm a HC tank) and another HC tank mate of mine came down. we were havin a laugh (shootin each other cos no one else came in) when we found out there were people out there. 1 APU and 2 PPU's... after the first 10 seconds fighting a capped PPU buffed APU with 2 capped PPU's we decided it wasnt worth damageing our guns and wasting ammo. yes we could have killed him, with effort... but PPU's just suck all the fun out of the game.
the PPU's weren't a bonus... they made the APU almost invinsable, and made us weak and slow... we all know how powerfull a holy para is.
anyway, i would agree with heal foreign cast (and maybe s/d more than it is now too) but i would also say that higher TL spells should over-ride lower TL buffs.
If you read a thread on this page about an Op War, Clan A defeated Clan B whislt Clan B had more PPU's and a Spy in Clan A killed 3 PPU's apparently with SH/HL. So whats the problem with PPU's at the moment?
The thing is people always resort to ppus when they get owned.
like lets take a 1 on 1 fight at CRP.... you go and PK a Tank... the Tank either GRs and come back to own you with a ppu or wait for a rezz for 1033948452 hours and when he is rezzed he would be like " oMfG I WaNa 0wNz0r dAt nIb !!!11"
true that, but if ppu's are overly nerfed people will complain lots, seriously. There was a patch, 160 I think that introduced a bug so armour didnt work, and everyone (except me, I loved it :D) complained, nerf the "PPU Armour" and people will complain.
I think a good idea would be to have s/d buffs not work in PvP but still work fine in PvM. so a PPU main job in PvP is to keep a person healed.
or maybe another idea which was posted by another player which was that heals stops whenever you are attacked by another player.
Do you people Coutinue to find so many things to cry aboput if every one thinks thing how they are in the game are so bad its simple just quit playing
Jesterthegreat
08-08-04, 00:26
Do you people Coutinue to find so many things to cry aboput if every one thinks thing how they are in the game are so bad its simple just quit playing
people who whine about whining are as pathetic as people who hate "trendies" cos all their mates hate them...
PvM has been made balanced towards PPUs, not the other way around. If
PPUs were made less important itd be possible to level somewhat fast
without them, some encounters like MC5 could be made slightly easier again.
Im all for this in every way, always has been.
Promethius
08-08-04, 00:29
Do you people Coutinue to find so many things to cry aboput if every one thinks thing how they are in the game are so bad its simple just quit playing
This is the negative posting I'm trying to avoid on thsi thread. If you took the time to read my post its not about crying or bitching or 'whathaveyou' you can think of. Its about the ROLE of PPUs and how I think it should be weakened. I never said make them useless or anything of that sort. making sheilds protect less equals other class's can Dmg other sheltered class's INCLUDING PPUs. Its not directly AIMed at PPUs ....well it might be but its not about PPUs are to strong so NERF NERF NERF.
Also someone questioned on the PvM effect on PPUs.....there has been tweaks in the past according to PPU tweaks since there damn role effects everything... mostlike if this was to hit the mobs would need a small nerf aswell according with the PPU tweak.
Post whetehr u agree or disagree jsut dont whine.....we have enough of that as it is on the thread.
-Prom
Shadow Dancer
08-08-04, 00:30
I vote yes, but only if it's the first step in tweaking the importance of PPUs.
Jesterthegreat
08-08-04, 00:31
people think its balanced PvM cos they are used to PPU's. i level loads without PPU's. my tank WB hunted, fire mob hunted, even chaos caved completely alone. these were (at the time) some of the hardest mobs.
now days i see people moan if there isn't a PPU at MB bunker. that shows how required we think PPU's are
Shadow Dancer
08-08-04, 00:35
people think its balanced PvM cos they are used to PPU's. i level loads without PPU's. my tank WB hunted, fire mob hunted, even chaos caved completely alone. these were (at the time) some of the hardest mobs.
now days i see people moan if there isn't a PPU at MB bunker. that shows how required we think PPU's are
AMEN jester. The community has been far too spoiled on ppus.
I can level my apu just fine without a ppu. It's simply just faster with a PPU, but by no means necassary.
Blah. Only the "special" high-powered mobs need to be toned down, i.e. mc5, doy tunnels.
I've rarely used a PPU to level, I dont find them needed to "speed up" leveling, when I started the game, PPU's didnt exist, at the start of Retail for months after probably only a few people bothered with being a PPU, these days people become "dependant" on PPU's, or at least they think they are, PPU's are only required at Op wars and for highest level areas. But it is a "team game" which means your supposed to require a support class to compete at the highest level.
As it stands now, Spies can happily drop PPU's, which is in fact a bad thing, and needs to be looked at, in fact all anti buffs should be looked at.
Promethius
08-08-04, 00:42
I vote yes, but only if it's the first step in tweaking the importance of PPUs.
I in no means said my tweaks for the PPU are near perfect but I believe its a step in the right direction. I'm open to suggestions all i hope is that KK is to.
My spy has levelled to xx/48 without ever employing a PPU. As it is now, I hunt warbots with him, alone. And that's the way I like it. :)
My spy has levelled to xx/48 without ever employing a PPU. As it is now, I hunt warbots with him, alone. And that's the way I like it. :)
damn straight, its the wussy people that have a PPU up their arse that make people wrongly think a PPU is a requirement, personally I think they should just remove the people who bitch about PPU's :p
oh, and have a shave <3
oh, and have a shave <3Not again! :lol:
I wish I had a picture of the time I shaved my head completely bald with a shaving razor. I have a lumpy skull. o_O
Jesterthegreat
08-08-04, 00:48
My spy has levelled to xx/48 without ever employing a PPU. As it is now, I hunt warbots with him, alone. And that's the way I like it. :)
haha my 39/33 APU solo's WB's :)
haha my 39/33 APU solo's WB's :)My pluto monk was doing warbots with a regular energy halo. :p
Thats another thing, PPUs are detrimental to the fun in leveling. Yeah, you
heard me. Before PPUs leveling was an adventure, you were using covers and
whatnot getting the fear fighting a doomie with your shitty gear. Nowadays
you kneel, aim at the monster and hold down the trigger until its dead. Most
of the time you can watch tv while leveling.
Wrong. Just wrong.
My pluto monk was doing warbots with a regular energy halo. :p
my PE was takin down warbots with an Archer Companion, I WIN! :D only got like 400 exp for it though :( never take down a warbot at /24 or whatever it was O_o
/edit @ above - Rade SEX! thats peoples personal choice, if they want to get rid of the fun of just killing a doomie with only 2 health left thats upto them, me, I can solo and mob toe to toe upto 89/89 without needin to take cover these days O_o
The only place a PPU is needed is in areas that team combat is required.
Jesterthegreat
08-08-04, 00:52
My pluto monk was doing warbots with a regular energy halo. :p
same... although i use psi attack 2 now
SUCH good dmg for the mana it uses
Promethius
08-08-04, 00:58
TBH its not a matter or not if PPUs need to be tweaked but HOW. Although some will always disagree, not sure who but someone said it best. "PPus should be a bonus not a necessity"
There are some other things that need to be tweaked relating this topic. Mainly regarding spy / PE usage with shelters. Not exactly sure atm wat would be good for them but currently IMHO spys even with drugs shouldn't have a better defense than a tank does. Just to refresh some peoples memories Spy + inq setup + self buff shelter = a better defense than a tanks no matter wat he does solo. (though many dont mention it because spys drop rather easily due to low HP / there inevitable weakness against Poison, but either way you cut it I dont think Spys by themselves should have a better defense than a tanks)
-Prom
As it stands now, Spies can happily drop PPU's, which is in fact a bad thing, and needs to be looked at, in fact all anti buffs should be looked at.
Why is that a bad thing? Yes I dropped 3 of em last night with SH/HL..only because :
1. They didn't stop the rez they where doing
2. Had no one covering them with heals/shelter
3. They didn't even move after being damaged.
4. They attempted rezing first a spy, I killed the ppu, another ppu comes up starts his rez on the dead ppu *bang* down he goes, the third ppu steps up to receive the same treatment a few moments later.
Anti buffs are I think fine as they are, as both apus and spies to a degree are paper out in the open and to try and kill a fast ppu is hard.
@Prom I dont drug nor wear inq or use shelter.
people think its balanced PvM cos they are used to PPU's. i level loads without PPU's. my tank WB hunted, fire mob hunted, even chaos caved completely alone. these were (at the time) some of the hardest mobs.
now days i see people moan if there isn't a PPU at MB bunker. that shows how required we think PPU's are
I totally agree..it's pretty rare I need (or want) a PPU with me..Why share my XP and cash? If I'm careful, well, I'll be okay..
Obviously, there are certain places that were intended for team play, like Mc5..by all means, bring the PPU..
But, depending on a PPU to save your ass is lame.
I tend to stop hanging out with people who say : ``Oh no, I'll DIE if I go there without a PPU!!!``
God forbid.
I'd say that dying is a normal part of the experience when you are trying to take down a 120/120 fire mob.
Make it so that the PPU's have a harder time self-buffing..it'll force people to think for themselves when they see their security blankets dropping like flies in Chaos...
Although that's a fun idea, i think we're probably better off leaving things as they are, unfortunately..if KK tries to nerf the PPU, they'll just screw it up, and the class will become useless (like the PE:p)
Personally, I'm in agreement with the train of thought that all classes should have some type of inherent healing ability. It's not like a TL 3 heal is gonna make an APU unstoppable..
And if you can't PvP without a PPU up your ass: You suck.
Promethius
08-08-04, 01:11
Why is that a bad thing? Yes I dropped 3 of em last night with SH/HL..only because :
1. They didn't stop the rez they where doing
2. Had no one covering them with heals/shelter
3. They didn't even move after being damaged.
4. They attempted rezing first a spy, I killed the ppu, another ppu comes up starts his rez on the dead ppu *bang* down he goes, the third ppu steps up to receive the same treatment a few moments later.
Anti buffs are I think fine as they are, as both apus and spies to a degree are paper out in the open and to try and kill a fast ppu is hard.
@Prom I dont drug nor wear inq or use shelter.
Well I'm wrong then. But to my knowledge a sheltering Spy has a stronger defense than a tank. (i.e one shot with a CS to a tank would do roughly lets say 100. But to a sheltered spy it would do 80) The numbers are not acurate but I myself have a pure combat spy who used a shelter and I HAD a better protection than my tank had. (and plz dont respond: "cs isn't a good testing weapon, did u do all your calcs right, etc. I've been testing con and such things since the beginning of retail, so where as if a doctor says something about a medical condition you can compare that to me about con :angel: )
P.S. If anyone disagrees I'll be GLAD to prove this on saturn just send me a PM.
-Prom
Quit with the nerf PPu threads allready. In case no one has noticed, NC op wars are all about Teamwork. PPU's kind of guarantee team work and fit in perfectly with the whole idea as a good op war team needs a mix of char types to work best.
Outside of op wars, if you kill someone and they come back with a PPU, iether leave, get ur own PPU or go fight people that dont require PPU's with them. Believe it or not there are a lot of them around.
Ohh, and generally I have noticed that the people that complain about PPU's turning up at Pk-fests are usually the ones that were winning in the first place. If they had been in the losing position, it has been my experience that they are also the first ones to go of shouting for a PPU to come help em out.
Stop trying to get PPU's nerfed when there is a far simpler solution. If so many of you hate PPU's ruining your PvP fights STOP, I REPEAT STOP asking PPU's to come along. Get on chat channels and find the apparently large amount of players that feel the same about PPU's and go fight it out.
In closing, its rarely the PPU thats shouting Please, ohhhh please let me come with you when you PK. Its all the PKers that shout please ohh please come help us win. I have a question for you all. Who would you blame for every lost fight if there were no PPU's?.
Quit with the nerf PPu threads allready. In case no one has noticed, NC op wars are all about Teamwork. PPU's kind of guarantee team work and fit in perfectly with the whole idea as a good op war team needs a mix of char types to work best.
Outside of op wars, if you kill someone and they come back with a PPU, iether leave, get ur own PPU or go fight people that dont require PPU's with them. Believe it or not there are a lot of them around.
Ohh, and generally I have noticed that the people that complain about PPU's turning up at Pk-fests are usually the ones that were winning in the first place. If they had been in the losing position, it has been my experience that they are also the first ones to go of shouting for a PPU to come help em out.
Stop trying to get PPU's nerfed when there is a far simpler solution. If so many of you hate PPU's ruining your PvP fights STOP, I REPEAT STOP asking PPU's to come along. Get on chat channels and find the apparently large amount of players that feel the same about PPU's and go fight it out.
In closing, its rarely the PPU thats shouting Please, ohhhh please let me come with you when you PK. Its all the PKers that shout please ohh please come help us win. I have a question for you all. Who would you blame for every lost fight if there were no PPU's?.
Oh yeah, if our side dont bring the PPUs then the OP wars will be so much
more fun. Wtf are you toking on.
As long as PPUs are a problem people will discuss ways of getting them toned
down. As it stands now its not about "a mix of char types" as you put it, its
PPUs and something else. Thats not teamwork its retarded.
Shadow Dancer
08-08-04, 01:59
Oh yeah, if our side dont bring the PPUs then the OP wars will be so much
more fun. Wtf are you toking on.
As long as PPUs are a problem people will discuss ways of getting them toned
down. As it stands now its not about "a mix of char types" as you put it, its
PPUs and something else. Thats not teamwork its retarded.
Spot on Rade.
If one side decides not to bring ppus and the other side does, they're screwed. So coppertop's post is somewhat unrealistic.
And you're right, teamwork my ass. To KK right now team = ppu.
Why do you need apus? They can antibuff. What does it do? Remove shelter. What does spirit mod do? Remove shelter. Notice how everything about "teamwork" more or less revolves around the PPU and his buffs.
And leveling/pvm is far too easy with a PPU like you said.
Shadow Dancer
08-08-04, 02:00
DEX BASED FIRST AID.
Another good solution. Part of the solution to PPUs revolves around giving better support ability to other classes.
Mr Friendly
08-08-04, 02:07
ermm...less than a month prior to BDoY u want kk to make a change.... @_@
just leave everything, all weapons, all classes, everything alone till u see the new things in BDoY. THEN u can post if u want things changed (even though ur opinion wont matter) :eek:
ermm...less than a month prior to BDoY u want kk to make a change.... @_@
just leave everything, all weapons, all classes, everything alone till u see the new things in BDoY. THEN u can post if u want things changed (even though ur opinion wont matter) :eek:
Hahahahahah
Yeah thats right, ALL OF THE SUDDEN we want something changed. I realise
that the fact that some people thinks something is wrong with PPUs must be
a complete shocker to you.
Dribble Joy
08-08-04, 03:21
PPU's should never be a neccessity.
make them a bonus, but not a neccessity.
Bonus = neccessity.
Even a player with nothing but a blessed heal could drastically affect an OP fight where there were no PPUs.
Add holy heals, anti shelter and shields and it is simply a magnified case of the same thing.
Why do people have ppus? Why are ppus in the game?
Supposedly as support characters, the intentions may have been good, but it's all gone wrong.
Heals beyond that of the tl3 and the lvl1 heals render the side with the least number of suppord chars obsolite, then the sheilds unbalance the classes.
Self cast shields is the first step to balance, but the over reliance on PPUs remains.
I say go back to beta, remove all PPU spells above tl40, bring in self cast shields and make everyone a hybrid or a pure apu.
Promethius
08-08-04, 03:38
Quit with the nerf PPu threads allready. In case no one has noticed, NC op wars are all about Teamwork. PPU's kind of guarantee team work and fit in perfectly with the whole idea as a good op war team needs a mix of char types to work best.
Outside of op wars, if you kill someone and they come back with a PPU, iether leave, get ur own PPU or go fight people that dont require PPU's with them. Believe it or not there are a lot of them around.
Ohh, and generally I have noticed that the people that complain about PPU's turning up at Pk-fests are usually the ones that were winning in the first place. If they had been in the losing position, it has been my experience that they are also the first ones to go of shouting for a PPU to come help em out.
Stop trying to get PPU's nerfed when there is a far simpler solution. If so many of you hate PPU's ruining your PvP fights STOP, I REPEAT STOP asking PPU's to come along. Get on chat channels and find the apparently large amount of players that feel the same about PPU's and go fight it out.
In closing, its rarely the PPU thats shouting Please, ohhhh please let me come with you when you PK. Its all the PKers that shout please ohh please come help us win. I have a question for you all. Who would you blame for every lost fight if there were no PPU's?.
Another OMG I'm a PPU this Kinda looks like a nerf Sheild REFUSE TO READ SHEILD ACTIVATED!!!!
Dont bother posting if you dont read the other posts first.
Prom
Promethius
08-08-04, 03:39
Bonus = neccessity.
Even a player with nothing but a blessed heal could drastically affect an OP fight where there were no PPUs.
Add holy heals, anti shelter and shields and it is simply a magnified case of the same thing.
Why do people have ppus? Why are ppus in the game?
Supposedly as support characters, the intentions may have been good, but it's all gone wrong.
Heals beyond that of the tl3 and the lvl1 heals render the side with the least number of suppord chars obsolite, then the sheilds unbalance the classes.
Self cast shields is the first step to balance, but the over reliance on PPUs remains.
I say go back to beta, remove all PPU spells above tl40, bring in self cast shields and make everyone a hybrid or a pure apu.
Now only if you worked for kk....
ermm...less than a month prior to BDoY u want kk to make a change.... @_@
just leave everything, all weapons, all classes, everything alone till u see the new things in BDoY. THEN u can post if u want things changed (even though ur opinion wont matter) :eek:
lol i already feel sorry for you. Your one of those types Doy WILL SAVE US yes it will!!! :angel: Fluffy cloud thinkers. The same rules will still apply in NC as they will in NC2 but with more content / items. I.e. PPus will still be rediculous and everywhere and the skill that once attracted many players will forever be lost.
Why did all the freezers get nerfed a long time ago (atleast one reason) Because it took away from the skill of fighting. It was all about who could shock who first then Game over.
Instead of that we have a more elevated skill reducer/killer. Its now all about who has the most PPUs. Honestly I'm loosing interest in NC with the way current things are happening and a large portion is my msot favored part. PvP. I'm not sure why everyones afraid of change. its wat caused alot of players to leave, yes. But it can be wat causes a Huge population to come back. Maybe we would see some of the senior players play again that once loved this game as much as crack.
Basicaly I just want PPUs reworked, In an ideal world GONE but that will never happen. I've seen many sad occasions with PPUs at OPs and peppar, etc. 1 Pe with 2 PPUs vs a bunch of people. Theres a thin line between Support character and absolutely necessary character. I find it sad nowadays that a clans skill at OP fighting depends on the ammount of PPus they have.
The way i see it is:
1 PPU + apu + melee tank vs. tank , tank , tank , apu, spy, pe.
Honestly whos going to win?
-Prom
Oh yeah, if our side dont bring the PPUs then the OP wars will be so much
more fun. Wtf are you toking on.
Read my post again please. PPU's are required for op wars in much the same way as you HAVE to bring a minimum of 3 hackers to an op war. Op wars are all about TEAM WORK and if you cant get your team together then I am sorry, but you need to look for some more active members, or consider making the sacrifice yourself and creating a PPU as I did (Hell, at the time my clan had zero PPU's and they had just changed the hack system to require 3 hackers, so I made him an op hacking PPU to cover both requirements). PPU's do not spoil op wars, they make them fun as hell. Without PPU's you could never have an epic op war that lasts for 2 hours, let alone 10 minutes.
What I was talking about was PPU's in random Pk situations such as PP or raids. It strikes me that people keep missing the point with PPU's. Just as a question, has anyone ever tried attacking an op without 3 hackers?. If so, why are there no whines about removing the hack system so that clans that dont have 3 hackers available can also compete in op wars?.
Another OMG I'm a PPU this Kinda looks like a nerf Sheild REFUSE TO READ SHEILD ACTIVATED!!!!
Dont bother posting if you dont read the other posts first.
Prom
I wasnt responding to your post in particular. Maybe you should read the rest of the posts in this thread. Many of them are Nerf the PPU type posts. Why is it that so many people against PPU's think we should only hear one side of the argument. I take it there cant be two sides to it?
Hmm, my challenge to all those that consider it wrong that PPU's are a must have for op wars.
Next time you decide to attack an op, try it without the required 3 hackers and see how far u get. Oops, damn, oooh crap.....emmm people get on to KK I dont want to op war any more because we HAVE to have 3 hackers.
:lol:
On second thought, here is a second challenge. Attack the ops of a clan that has loads of tanks and APU's with a team of hacking spies. Oops, damn, crap.....emm people get on to KK, I cant take this any more, there forcing us to have 3 hackers AND a team of warriors.
Ohh by way of a 3rd challenge, Next time your op gets hacked, try rushing of to the op with ONLY PPU's in the team and see if you can defeat the hostile clan and Hold on to your op. Oops, damn, crap....emm people get on to KK. We cant possibly hold on to our ops if KK are going to force us to have attackers in our team. Damn man, I dont want to be an attacker.
As long as PPUs are a problem people will discuss ways of getting them toned
down. As it stands now its not about "a mix of char types" as you put it, its
PPUs and something else. Thats not teamwork its retarded.
Hmm, you are right. At the moment you have to have 3 hackers in the team, one or two PPU's are preferable, and ooh we need some tanks/APU's in the mix so we can actually kill the enemy of they show up.
Hmm I guess you are right rade, no team work there is there?.
Ohh wait, PPU's, hackers and fighters. Emm, oops, shit..I think that might be a team. Hmm, well go figure.
Spot on Rade.
If one side decides not to bring ppus and the other side does, they're screwed. So coppertop's post is somewhat unrealistic.
And you're right, teamwork my ass. To KK right now team = ppu.
Why do you need apus? They can antibuff. What does it do? Remove shelter. What does spirit mod do? Remove shelter. Notice how everything about "teamwork" more or less revolves around the PPU and his buffs.
.
Hmm, I guess you are also correct. Team = PPU. Take up my challenge then. Try fighting ANY clan with no attackers in your team, and try taking an op with no hackers. Not so easy is it?
Also, why do you need APU's?. For antibuff is your answer. To be honest, most of the time I see them chasing unfortunate tanks around the ops HLing them to hell and back with there extreme damage. Or barreling UG zones to massacre anyone that zones up from the UG once you've started hacking the op out from under them.
Hmm and spies. Generally, when it comes to op wars spies tend to figure quite highly when it comes to Hacking the actual op, because for an APU or a PPU to hack an op it requires a bit of gimpage.
Ok, so let me check my figures here. Cant op war without fighters and cant op war without hackers. Hmm I guess PPU's arent the only class you cant do without in op wars.
Clownst0pper
08-08-04, 16:26
when each side has a PPU, its balanced
when each side doesnt have a PPU, its balanced
its when one has PPU's and the other doesnt which shows how important PPU's are..
finding the middle ground is whats needed.
And it comes down to the shelter, and heal
when each side has a PPU, its balanced
when each side doesnt have a PPU, its balanced
its when one has PPU's and the other doesnt which shows how important PPU's are..
finding the middle ground is whats needed.
And it comes down to the shelter, and heal
Like I said, take up my challenge Clown. The PPU is not the only character you cant do without in op wars. Seriously. Try going up against another clan in op wars when they have hackers and you dont. I dont care how many fights you win, the other clan is the only one thats gonna walk away with ops.
Try the same with no attackers on your team when the other clan has plenty of them. All of a sudden your op war team is kind of screwed and the other clan has a huge advantage.
I could point out several times when my clan has had a couple of PPU's on-line when we have had ops hacked. The only prob was we had no fighters. Sure we could go try to defend out ops, but guess what?. With no fighters to hand we were kind of screwed. The other team had plenty of fighters and PPU's, but we had no plenty of PPU's and no fighters. Strikes me that in that case the teams were seriously unbalanced. Does that mean we should remove all attackers so that the clans unfortunate enough not to have warriors in the mix are always on an equal footing?.
Clownst0pper
08-08-04, 16:41
Like I said, take up my challenge Clown. The PPU is not the only character you cant do without in op wars. Seriously. Try going up against another clan in op wars when they have hackers and you dont. I dont care how many fights you win, the other clan is the only one thats gonna walk away with ops.
Try the same with no attackers on your team when the other clan has plenty of them. All of a sudden your op war team is kind of screwed and the other clan has a huge advantage.
I could point out several times when my clan has had a couple of PPU's on-line when we have had ops hacked. The only prob was we had no fighters. Sure we could go try to defend out ops, but guess what?. With no fighters to hand we were kind of screwed. The other team had plenty of fighters and PPU's, but we had no plenty of PPU's and no fighters. Strikes me that in that case the teams were seriously unbalanced. Does that mean we should remove all attackers so that the clans unfortunate enough not to have warriors in the mix are always on an equal footing?.
Im talking in the context of if each OP war team (made up of fighters) as a PPU its balanced..
Not just having PPU's..
Hmm, you are right. At the moment you have to have 3 hackers in the team, one or two PPU's are preferable, and ooh we need some tanks/APU's in the mix so we can actually kill the enemy of they show up.
Hmm I guess you are right rade, no team work there is there?.
Ohh wait, PPU's, hackers and fighters. Emm, oops, shit..I think that might be a team. Hmm, well go figure.
Actually, the hackers doesnt involve teamwork, they dont have to do
anything just be there which is almost even more retarded than PPUs. I have
been a hacker since start of retail so its not that I dont want hackers to be
necesary - But they should have something to do more than just being a
prereq for attacking an OP.
So no, the perfect fighting team is PPUs + a bunch of other guys. And
hacking is available to all classes bar tanks, so its not like it gives the other
classes something to do which the PPUs cant, I know a shitload of PPUs that
hack. Hell I even know a melee tank that hack ops.
A game that encourages teamwork and well-setup teams have very different
roles for different classes. In order to make the optimal team you need to fill
all these different roles. Just because its good to have a bunch of people in a
group doesnt mean the classes have different roles which needs filling.
Nvm I just read the rest of coppertops posts. Youre either an idiot or havent
even played the game, either way Im not going to bother.
THE_TICK!!!!
08-08-04, 16:51
Its no knew news that this game directly evolves around PPUs, as in for Lvling, Pking, and OP waring.
I personally would like to see the game to not depend as MUCH on the role of the PPU. So ultimatly I'm suggesting a sufficient nerf of there shelters and there heals. (aiming towards a 15% nerf)
Overall I see Neocron being more enjoyable for the majority if the role of the PPU was lessened and others heightened.
-Prom wow COOOL another nerf thread...i mean i dont get it...im totally lost i mean WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WAY THINGS ARE...i feel for you NERF people in real life..i bet you rebuild your car everyday...cant stand clothes for they just arent quit right cant eat cause the potatoes need to be nerfed..cause they have to much starch...your steak needs to be NERFED cause its the wrong color..and the WORST part is you think OTHER people would; benifit from your silly hangups...fuck the NERF !!!! yaknow im not a negative guy but soon sooon...thats gonna be my sig !!
Its about Teamwork, yes in most situation you need a ppu but thats what its about.
You cant want to go like, we dont have a medic in our Team but we still want to win.
Well your prob you loose, because your opponents prolly have a better team.
You cant want to win any fight either your team is better or worse.
Its about Teamwork, yes in most situation you need a ppu but thats what its about.
You cant want to go like, we dont have a medic in our Team but we still want to win.
Well your prob you loose, because your opponents prolly have a better team.
You cant want to win any fight either your team is better or worse.
And the problem right now is that a PPU doesnt affect the teams chance of
winning by 10% or 20% but by 99%. And no other class has a specific role,
PPUs are the ONLY ONCE that have that sort of impact. All classes should be
equally wanted but no class should have such huge impact.
Support, for example single heals, should be nerfed.
We have to get to the point, where ppu supports means only a moderate boost for a single damage dealer, not that megaboost we have now.
The ppu's job is to support a team of 4 or 5 people. He would still be important enough in such a team, if his support was weaker than it is now. But with nerfed support, e.g. a ppu+apu team wouldn't be uber any more.
It's ridiculous, how strong damage dealers with their own private ppu are. You can watch it in two man raids and in OP-Fights:
Some clans on Jupiter come with 12 PPUs, because then every one gets his heal very fast, long resurrect time is also no problem, one PPU supports another PPU who's resurrecting. Support still goes on while PPUs are resurrecting, because you have enough ppus to do that. PPUs who don't know what to do, because nobody is dead or injured, are still not useless, because they freeze and damage boost all the time. Also no problem for an almost dead damage dealer to survive in most cases. He runs away through the croud and if only one of these 12 PPUs notices his problem and is able to cast a heal, he is safe. Nobody kills a damagedealer with shelter, deflector and holy heal, even if he was almost dead. => heals are too strong.
Perhaps the situation is different on the servers today, but after the char transfer with BeDoY, the people who don't see the problem, will understand, what I mean. ( When the first clan attacks their OP with 23 people, 12 PPUs, all in Teamspeak and well organized :p )
P.S.: sorry, for the mistakes, I am german.
Well maybe just groupheals heal other ppl ? maybe......
Well yes the ppus have big implact in OPfights, but their besides pretty boring to play.
But they big impact is positiv too, because of PPus you can enjoy an opfight for much more than just 10 min PPUs make it possible to get 1 hour fights.
Aziraphale
08-08-04, 17:31
Maybe there could be a limit as to how many buffs a PPU can maintain at any given moment? This would encourage a lot more tactics and planning, and also mean that PPU buffs are a finate resource rather than in unlimited supply.
Say about 12 buffs at any given moment, this would allow them to buf themselves (say, 5 buffs) and then they only have about 7 to distribute between other teamates.
Nvm I just read the rest of coppertops posts. Youre either an idiot or havent
even played the game, either way Im not going to bother.
No, you just cant get past your biase. Try an op war with no APU's and Tanks and see how far you get. I dont see the difference between needing PPU's and needing APU's and Tanks. The only difference I see is that there are more tanks and APU's around than PPU's.
What you are trying to say continually is that PPU's are a must have to fight in an op war. What I am pointing out is that Tanks and APU's are also must haves. The only difference is that there are more tanks and apu's to go around.
Yes, a team with PPU's against a team with PPU's will almost certainly be a victory for the team with PPU's. Of course, it is also true that a team of 4 PPU's and fighters against a team of 12 fighters and PPU's is also a guaranteed no win situation. The only difference is of course that in this situation you cant blame the PPU's for your defeat. Now you can go whine about the fact that the other clan is to big.
So no, the perfect fighting team is PPUs + a bunch of other guys.
Hmm, I just spotted this part of your post. Did you actually read it when you posted it?. A bunch of other guys huh?. Hmm so what you are saying is that a bunch of other guys are also required for op wars?.
Huh, I thought thats what I was saying as well.
Just to carry this thought to its logical conclusion. Say for some reason you DONT have the 'Bunch of other guys' in your team then arnt you just as screwed as if you have the 'bunch of other guys' in your team but dont have the PPU's?
where do hybrids stand in this then? :lol: i know a few hybrids on uranus who take a ppu down in seconds, im sure people will agree.
i see where people are coming from with the ppu nerf/ tweak but the shelters dont really last that long, and in an op war the ppu is the centre of attention kill him/her then deal with the rest.
im not biased i just think you gotta know what your doing to kill a ppu, dev takes a ppu pretty easy, even better if you got someone dealing a hl on em while the dev tank hits em.
speaking as a ppu i know ppu's are tough but thats coz they cant attack and apu's are strong but thats coz they cant heal, i think everyone is ok as it is atm. but plzzz remove the god damn para i hate that thing :mad:
Well yes the ppus have big implact in OPfights, but their besides pretty boring to play.
But they big impact is positiv too, because of PPus you can enjoy an opfight for much more than just 10 min PPUs make it possible to get 1 hour fights.
Imo thats far from positive. If I had to chose between fighting without PPUs
for 10 mins or with PPUs for 1 hour it wouldnt be a hard choice, lets see, 10
mins of intense fun or pulling teeth for an hour... hm...
where do hybrids stand in this then? :lol: i know a few hybrids on uranus who take a ppu down in seconds, im sure people will agree.
i see where people are coming from with the ppu nerf/ tweak but the shelters dont really last that long, and in an op war the ppu is the centre of attention kill him/her then deal with the rest.
im not biased i just think you gotta know what your doing to kill a ppu, dev takes a ppu pretty easy, even better if you got someone dealing a hl on em while the dev tank hits em.
What?
What?
What?
Is this an uranus thing or is it just this guy?
must be a uranus thing otherwise you wouldn't have suggested it :rolleyes:
i just dont think ppu's need a nerf, they are godlike coz they cant attack just like apus are shite at taking dmg coz they can give it out. the thread started because 2 guys couldn't have fun in pp coz of 2 ppu's and an apu.
i just added that ppu's can be killed so why make em even easier to be killed. he stated himself we could have killed em but we didn't want to waste ammo.
the hybrid thing was just a joke btw 8|
Imo thats far from positive. If I had to chose between fighting without PPUs
for 10 mins or with PPUs for 1 hour it wouldnt be a hard choice, lets see, 10
mins of intense fun or pulling teeth for an hour... hm...
Hmm, your not really in to op wars are you?. There is nothing more intense than a non stop full on single op war (I am not talking about dying then going back again and again. I am talking about one long fight). The adrenaline rush is cool. Nothing like a fight like that. Its all a test of nerves and endurance and you cant tell who's gonna win till its over.
Your 10 minute fights wouldnt be 10 minutes of intense fun. For most people there it would be 30 seconds then oops there dead. Now they have to GR, wait 5 mins to lose SI and get possibly 5 imps poked, possibly repaired as well. You tell me. How many times would you go to op wars if that kept happening. Trust me, soon enough you would be bored as hell with it.
BTW you never answered my question above. You were agreeing with me right?.
Promethius
08-08-04, 22:09
must be a uranus thing otherwise you wouldn't have suggested it :rolleyes:
i just dont think ppu's need a nerf, they are godlike coz they cant attack just like apus are shite at taking dmg coz they can give it out. the thread started because 2 guys couldn't have fun in pp coz of 2 ppu's and an apu.
i just added that ppu's can be killed so why make em even easier to be killed. he stated himself we could have killed em but we didn't want to waste ammo.
the hybrid thing was just a joke btw 8|
WOW...
It seems alot of people in this thread are very narrow sited.
This thread isn't entirely about PPU's and nerfing them. Its about boosting the roles of other classes.
At the end of the day I want ppus to still be able to survive a decent number of attackers, and all that crap.
Heres wat I'm talking about more specificaly. A holy heal, heals (not sure exactly on the number) 40 hp per tick, currently. If that is so I'd like to see it down to 30. And I'd like to see blessed heal toned down a bit aswell. Due to the fact a tl 3 heals incredibly slow as it is I'm sure few would want to see that nerfed.
Then as for shelters. Lets just use this as an example. A buffed tank takes 50 dmg from a HL with a shelter from a capped ppu. Now with the shelter nerfed a tank should take 70 dmg from that HL. (note: these numbers are by no means exact or accurate).
This is what I am asking.
Now ask yourselves this before you post about how this is a NERF THE SHIT OUTA PPU THREAD.
Will PPUs still be required at OP fights?
Will PPUs still be favored for PvM?
Will PPUs be able to survive 4 chars attacking them?
Will PPUs still be viable?
my answer to all of this is Yes. If this does anything it just makes PPUs work harder and it provides all of the OTHER class's with a bit less protection.
*sprinkles gasoline on myself*
Ready to be flamed
-Prom
Shadow Dancer
08-08-04, 22:10
If so, why are there no whines about removing the hack system so that clans that dont have 3 hackers available can also compete in op wars?.
Every class can hack an op.
Melee tanks can put their points into it, pop a drug, and get a spy 3. Spies can hack. Pes can hack if they make the sacrifice. PPUs and apus can hack.
How many classes have the defensive/supportive power anywhere NEAR the ppu? None.
Secondly, how many classes have offensive power? Spies, tanks, apus, and pe. PPU is the only class that has a role(like rade said) that only IT can fill. AND it's not 10% important or 15%, it's like 80% important(yes Rade I know you said that, but I was going to say it too. :p).
That's why i'm in favor of spreading out some of the ppu's roles to other classes as well.
And the problem right now is that a PPU doesnt affect the teams chance of
winning by 10% or 20% but by 99%. And no other class has a specific role,
PPUs are the ONLY ONCE that have that sort of impact. .
hehe just spotted this one as well. Where should I start?.
Do u mean to say that Attack classes have no specific role?. I always thought tanks and APU's were there specifically to kill. Hmm spies are there specifically to scout and snipe (allthough a lot of people dont use tactics in there op wars so spies are sidelined to an extent).
One other thing. Do you mean to tell me that Tanks and APU's have no impact on a teams chances of winning in an op war. Have you ever tried winning without any attackers?. Trust me its gonna be tough. Seems to me there presence or absence from an op war team is gonna have a pretty godamn huge impact on the chances of success.
PPU's are just one side of the equation. You cant win an op war without BOTH sides being present. I will admit spies on the face of it dont have as much to do, but then again a lot of that is down to the tactics used by clans, not there general abilities.
Promethius
08-08-04, 22:12
Hmm, your not really in to op wars are you?. There is nothing more intense than a non stop full on single op war (I am not talking about dying then going back again and again. I am talking about one long fight). The adrenaline rush is cool. Nothing like a fight like that. Its all a test of nerves and endurance and you cant tell who's gonna win till its over.
Your 10 minute fights wouldnt be 10 minutes of intense fun. For most people there it would be 30 seconds then oops there dead. Now they have to GR, wait 5 mins to lose SI and get possibly 5 imps poked, possibly repaired as well. You tell me. How many times would you go to op wars if that kept happening. Trust me, soon enough you would be bored as hell with it.
BTW you never answered my question above. You were agreeing with me right?.
Btw you've made NO suggestions on how to rework PPUs, or given a good reason why not to either.
All i've read from your posts is you bitching and how PPUs are fine etc. And a load of crap about needed 3 hackers for an OP war. Hey did u kno you need fighters aswell for an OP war? Did you kno you need ammo for your weapons at an OP war? The whole community knows this but I'm not sure if you do. Post something meaningful or quit crying over your beloved PvP killer. I'm regarding your PPU if you didn't catch that one.
-Prom
hehe just spotted this one as well. Where should I start?.
Do u mean to say that Attack classes have no specific role?. I always thought tanks and APU's were there specifically to kill. Hmm spies are there specifically to scout and snipe (allthough a lot of people dont use tactics in there op wars so spies are sidelined to an extent).
One other thing. Do you mean to tell me that Tanks and APU's have no impact on a teams chances of winning in an op war. Have you ever tried winning without any attackers?. Trust me its gonna be tough. Seems to me there presence or absence from an op war team is gonna have a pretty godamn huge impact on the chances of success.
PPU's are just one side of the equation. You cant win an op war without BOTH sides being present. I will admit spies on the face of it dont have as much to do, but then again a lot of that is down to the tactics used by clans, not there general abilities.
The difference - "attackers" is a group comprising every class except the PPU. PPU/support is a group comprising one class - the PPU.
Every class can hack an op.
Secondly, how many classes have offensive power? Spies, tanks, apus, and pe. PPU is the only class that has a role(like rade said) that only IT can fill.
.
Emm, spies have offensive power yes, but only the tank can hit hard and take shit loads of damage. The APU can hit a lot harder but is easier to kill.
The spy can do some nice damage but his is a distance roll and with the use of the stealth tools, scout.
You cant op war without APU's and TANKS, so only they can fill that role. Correct?.
Unless you are telling me you could exchange all your tanks and APU's for spies and still win.
Yes PPU's have a great impact in support, but then an APU or TANK has a great impact on attack. FYI, allthough both good hitters, each of them again performs a specific role. The tank can soak up the damage while the APU is slaughtering the enemy.
Ohh yes, maybe every class can hack an op but you still have to skill yourself to it and in most cases that means gimping yourself for it. I am sure there are plenty of clans out there that have to go begging for op hacker help when they want to op war.
The difference - "attackers" is a group comprising every class except the PPU. PPU/support is a group comprising one class - the PPU.
hmm maybe attackers is the wrong word. Fighters then. In an op war situation only APU's and tanks have impact. Spies alone are just dead meat. PE's I wont mention, because they lack a lot of there punch in op wars.
BTW you never answered my question above. You were agreeing with me right?.
No, as I said earlier Im ignoring you, you're not adding anything to this
discussion and since everyone can see you dont know what you're talking
about spending time answering your spam isnt even necesary.
Emm, spies have offensive power yes, but only the tank can hit hard and take shit loads of damage. The APU can hit a lot harder but is easier to kill.
The spy can do some nice damage but his is a distance roll and with the use of the stealth tools, scout.
You cant op war without APU's and TANKS, so only they can fill that role. Correct?.
Unless you are telling me you could exchange all your tanks and APU's for spies and still win.
Yes PPU's have a great impact in support, but then an APU or TANK has a great impact on attack. FYI, allthough both good hitters, each of them again performs a specific role. The tank can soak up the damage while the APU is slaughtering the enemy.Sorry, but you're talking bollocks. Weapons like Healing Light don't hit a great deal less hard than CS. The Spy also has nothing stopping him from stealthing when in trouble, and sitting in a friendly PPU's heal sanctum for a while. Plus they can still deshield with SH. Admittedly they aren't as great in the direct combat role as a Tank is but, think for second - turn all your APUs and Tanks into spies and you lose maybe 30% effectiveness of your team. Turn all your PPUs into PEs - now you're fucked.
Shadow Dancer
08-08-04, 22:26
Emm, spies have offensive power yes, but only the tank can hit hard and take shit loads of damage. The APU can hit a lot harder but is easier to kill.
The spy can do some nice damage but his is a distance roll and with the use of the stealth tools, scout.
Healing light hits hard. In terms of pistols, slasher and exec both hit very hard IMO. Not only that, but Exec was seems to be designed with a nice fat monk on it's crosshair. It hits monks extremely hard.
You cant op war without APU's and TANKS, so only they can fill that role. Correct?.
You can't op war without tanks? That's odd. I thought there were other classes that can do damage.
There's also the fact that low defense suddenly isn't so low when a.....ding ding ding...PPU is protecting you. APU IMO has the crappiest defense in the game. Setup properly and with a PPU protecting him, suddenly he can take loads of punishment.
I'm not sure(and some might disagree) if you can leave out apus and still win. Mainly because of antibuff. Oh wait.....what does antibuff do? It removes the very shields that the PPU specializes in giving. SO once again, the PPU is the focal point.
Yes PPU's have a great impact in support, but then an APU or TANK has a great impact on attack. FYI, allthough both good hitters, each of them again performs a specific role. The tank can soak up the damage while the APU is slaughtering the enemy.
Anyone with a ppu protecting them can soak up damage. Anyone can do damage, although it is in different amounts. You say apu hits harder than tank/pe/spy, but that doesn't change the fact that tank/pe/spy can still do damage. Is there anyone that even comes close to providng the amount of support a PPU provides?
Nope, not even close.
Sorry, but you're talking bollocks. Weapons like Healing Light don't hit a great deal less hard than CS. The Spy also has nothing stopping him from stealthing when in trouble, and sitting in a friendly PPU's heal sanctum for a while. Plus they can still deshield with SH. Admittedly they aren't as great in the direct combat role as a Tank is but, think for second - turn all your APUs into spies and you lose maybe 30% effectiveness of your team. Turn all your PPUs into PEs - now you're fucked.
lmao. when an APU starts HLIng a spy, he's gonna be dead before he can get stealth out, regardless of shelter.
BTW do as I ask would ya. Remove tanks and APU's and now your fucked.
Maybe the PPU is just one man covering one task, but no one would suggest you could op war without tanks and APU's in your team.
Whats the difference?. There are more tanks and APU's to go around. Bring the pops up and maybe just maybe that would help sort the problems out a little. (easier said than done I know).
Healing light hits hard. In terms of pistols, slasher and exec both hit very hard IMO. Not only that, but Exec was seems to be designed with a nice fat monk on it's crosshair. It hits monks extremely hard.
You can't op war without tanks? That's odd. I thought there were other classes that can do damage.
There's also the fact that low defense suddenly isn't so low when a.....ding ding ding...PPU is protecting you. APU IMO has the crappiest defense in the game. Setup properly and with a PPU protecting him, suddenly he can take loads of punishment.
I'm not sure(and some might disagree) if you can leave out apus and still win. Mainly because of antibuff. Oh wait.....what does antibuff do? It removes the very shields that the PPU specializes in giving. SO once again, the PPU is the focal point.
Anyone with a ppu protecting them can soak up damage. Anyone can do damage, although it is in different amounts. You say apu hits harder than tank/pe/spy, but that doesn't change the fact that tank/pe/spy can still do damage. Is there anyone that even comes close to providng the amount of support a PPU provides?
Nope, not even close.
A) I never said spies couldnt do any damage. They just die hellishly fast if an APU or tank attacks em. (Even with monkey buffs).
B) I said Tanks AND Apu's. I kind of rolled em together as the op war fighters ( generally teams have a mix of both.) Remove the 2 of them and you cant do the same damage and basically your spies are gonna drop like fly's.
C). Apu's also do the most damage. Everyone knows it. They only really use there antibuffs at the end of op wars or when they spot a PPU ressing.
( I say that because generally the tactic is to kill the fighters then try and kill the PPU's.).
D) I refer you to B. Spies might be able to do damage, but alone they get killed with extreme ease regardless of PPU buffs and heal.
Promethius
08-08-04, 22:36
hmm maybe attackers is the wrong word. Fighters then. In an op war situation only APU's and tanks have impact. Spies alone are just dead meat. PE's I wont mention, because they lack a lot of there punch in op wars.
THIS is EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! You said it yourself. Pes aren't worth mentioning at OP wars. Why because there defense is low? WRONG. Because their dmg output is ineffective when a player has a PPU buff. Which is why I'm saying weaken PPUs buffs / heals therefor OTHER PLAYERS can have fun with PEs , Spy.
I dont kno about the rest of you but I have a screen shot of an OP war and in that OP war I saw Monks , more MONKS and a tank and i think a couple monks. Apus have the strongest attack so naturally they have the easiest time getting through them.
Where as Pes are laughable at, when you have a shelter on.
-Prom
Promethius
08-08-04, 22:40
C). Apu's also do the most damage. Everyone knows it. They only really use there antibuffs at the end of op wars or when they spot a PPU ressing.
( I say that because generally the tactic is to kill the fighters then try and kill the PPU's.
WRONG there are plenty of APus, including myself that in OP wars Antibuff ALL the time and mainly to the 'attackers'
You cast an antibuff in the air, you get a mass panic of the PPus, who go and crouch into a corner waiting for there shetler to come off. While they stop healing other people to save themselves because if they drop a whole team can drop.
So then once casted PPUs continues to do his thing, while that poor lil apu / tank runs around naked and ends up a nice meal for my HL.
-Prom
lmao. when an APU starts HLIng a spy, he's gonna be dead before he can get stealth out, regardless of shelter.
BTW do as I ask would ya. Remove tanks and APU's and now your fucked.
Maybe the PPU is just one man covering one task, but no one would suggest you could op war without tanks and APU's in your team.
Whats the difference?. There are more tanks and APU's to go around. Bring the pops up and maybe just maybe that would help sort the problems out a little. (easier said than done I know).
Your spy maybe. All you're demonstrating is that you haven't the faintest idea how to setup a spy correctly. A spy can easily match and even beat an APU for defence with a bit of thought put into the setup.
Shadow Dancer
08-08-04, 22:45
WRONG there are plenty of APus, including myself that in OP wars Antibuff ALL the time and mainly to the 'attackers'
You cast an antibuff in the air, you get a mass panic of the PPus, who go and crouch into a corner waiting for there shetler to come off. While they stop healing other people to save themselves because if they drop a whole team can drop.
So then once casted PPUs continues to do his thing, while that poor lil apu / tank runs around naked and ends up a nice meal for my HL.
-Prom
Yep. I love spamming antibuff. Especially as soon as the fight starts, it tends to make people panic when they lose their shelter in the first 5 seconds.
Also Copper, you're just plain wrong about a spy dying fast with PPU buffs. Only newb spies that don't know how to set up their con will still die fast with PEE PEE YOO buffs.
Btw you've made NO suggestions on how to rework PPUs, or given a good reason why not to either.
All i've read from your posts is you bitching and how PPUs are fine etc. And a load of crap about needed 3 hackers for an OP war. Hey did u kno you need fighters aswell for an OP war? Did you kno you need ammo for your weapons at an OP war? The whole community knows this but I'm not sure if you do. Post something meaningful or quit crying over your beloved PvP killer. I'm regarding your PPU if you didn't catch that one.
-Prom
My last post because to be honest I find the forums quite depressing. I was just a little bored yesterday with to much time on my hands.
First, if I read this particular post right then I am not sure what your point is. Yes, I did make the point that you need fighters to op war. I made that point several times in fact. You also comment that I mentioned a load of crap about 3 hackers. True or false?. 3 hackers is the minimum req to hack an op. Yes most classes can get enough hack to do it, but how many in any one clan actually have that amount of hack skill. Its usually only a very small percentage.
I am not crying over my PPU, and I am not the one thats bitching. I am just trying to put across another point of view. I have made the attempt to keep it civil, but this is one of my problems. The whole nerf PPU thing has been going on for so long and if for some reason you dont agree, well in the eye's of a lot of people in the forum thats just not allowed.
I will go out with one last point I guess.
I will describe the 3 scenarios which in my op war experience have iether ended op war sessions or prevented them from happening at all.
Scenario 1. We had 20 clan members on-line and were having a great time fighting over ops. That was until just one of our hackers had to log. We had to call a halt at that time because you know what?. Out of the 20 people we had on-line, only 3 of them could actually hack ops. In fact out of a clan of 60+ members I dont think more than 5 could hack ops.
Scenario 2. We couldnt go out and start op warring, or we couldnt go out and defend our ops when they were attacked because we didnt have enough fighters on. Hell we may have had 2 or 3 PPU's on line, but we were shit out of luck because we had almost no fighters on-line. (BTW it seems to me that pretty much all the moaning about PPU's at op wars happens in the out of game forums. In game, the biggest gripe people have is when a clan attacks your ops and you dont have enough people to fight back.)
Scenario 3. We had some attackers on-line and we had some hackers but we didnt have any PPU's on-line at the time. Obviously our chances of success are pretty low in this situation.
I dont suggest any new PPU nerfs because I honestly think PPU's work fine for op war situations. I wont go in to non op war PvP, because for one thing I rarely go along to random PK events. In non op war situations its up to you to find other people that agree with your non-ppu deal and fight it out with them.
Hackers may not be a class, but they are a unique skill set, and make up a fairly small percentage of the population. You cant op war without them.
You can make all the points you want about spy resist setups but if there weapons are so powerfull and there resists are so much better than an APU's why is it that so few are involved in op wars battles?. Seems to me if they were that great, half the servers would allready have hopped on to that bandwagon.
Front line fighters as far as I am concerned are still the tanks and APU's. If you dont have enough of them on-line you cant op war, no matter how many PPU's you have.
Of course, when you cant fight because you dont have any fighters on its called a zerg or a ninja. When you cant fight because you dont have any PPU's on-line its called Nerf the PPU.
I am just making the point that without any of the 3 pre-requisites for op warring you cant fight it out. The PPU is not the only character you cant op war without, allthough this seems to be the basis for much of the nerf the PPU threads.
Catch ya later.
Promethius
09-08-04, 22:58
Your not getting it. We aren't saying PPUs mean too much at OPs but they mean too much in GENERAL.
We all kno hacking an op requires 3 hackers...ladi da!
MY hope is that some day Fighting Group A vs Fighting GRoup B + 1 ppu
And Fighting Group A wins. (note it is possible currently for group A to win but, its also possible to win the lottery)
-Prom
Clownst0pper
09-08-04, 23:20
Well, A large majority of Phoenix OP wars are made up of spys lately, including myself
With a heat 3, and S/D from a PPU (when not self buffing) I can take equal to that of a tank.
Throw in my spirit mod and ive taken over an APU's role.
@ shadow- APU's are rare in our clan, were mostly tanks/spys/ppu's, we all have APU's of course, but none of us play them, due to them, well basically being shite.
Always needing PPU support, Raptors, spirit mods, its just a whole world of hurt for an APU who hasnt a PPU strapped on there ass
Shadow Dancer
10-08-04, 01:00
@ shadow- APU's are rare in our clan, were mostly tanks/spys/ppu's, we all have APU's of course, but none of us play them, due to them, well basically being shite.
Always needing PPU support, Raptors, spirit mods, its just a whole world of hurt for an APU who hasnt a PPU strapped on there ass
Do you mean the apu class is shite? :p
Clownst0pper
10-08-04, 01:08
Do you mean the apu class is shite? :p
Yup, a capped apu is shite.
Without constant PPUing, they are rediculously rubbish, melee ********** them, Raptors ******** them, spirit mods-well, game over instantly with that one.
I used to love my APU, but only when I have a PPU with me at all times, otherwise id rather log Koro, and take down just as many players, and last 10x as long, hell, id rather log my droner or rifle spy over apu's atm.
HL dmg is too random
Barrels are too slow and cost too much mana
Inability to heal makes you permanently vulnerable and overly dependant
Once DMG boosted and Parashocked, in comparison to a tank, or spy, you might as well be ready to GR as no matter the con setup, your never going to take the dmg
Bah, I dunno, I lost faith in APU's along time ago, its all the above reasons and more, the introduction of PA didnt help, and the fact I run the speed of a slug...
<goes and attempts to play kreole>
Yup, a capped apu is shite.
Without constant PPUing, they are rediculously rubbish, melee ********** them, Raptors ******** them, spirit mods-well, game over instantly with that one.
I used to love my APU, but only when I have a PPU with me at all times, otherwise id rather log Koro, and take down just as many players, and last 10x as long, hell, id rather log my droner or rifle spy over apu's atm.
HL dmg is too random
Barrels are too slow and cost too much mana
Inability to heal makes you permanently vulnerable and overly dependant
Once DMG boosted and Parashocked, in comparison to a tank, or spy, you might as well be ready to GR as no matter the con setup, your never going to take the dmg
Bah, I dunno, I lost faith in APU's along time ago, its all the above reasons and more, the introduction of PA didnt help, and the fact I run the speed of a slug...
<goes and attempts to play kreole>
so true, it's either hybrid or ppu, or apu if you seriously wanna die a lot (or you have a ppu on a 2nd computer or a friend)
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