View Full Version : Daily rant
I died again, so it's time for my daily rant. :p
Todays topic is
Spirit Mods: Why do KK hate PPUs so much
In the beginning was the hybrid. It was a total disaster, so KK brought in Specialisation. It's a bit like rail privatisation in that it looks good on paper, but in reality doesn't work at all.
Having established that specialised monks just plain don't work, KK had a choice. They could either:
a) Sit down and think some. Come up with a new way to do monks that would work and would be fun.
b) Introduce anti-buff. It's no fun for PPUs, makes their life hell, doesn't solve the original problem, and gives APUs delusions of grandeur. But it looks like action, and if something looks like action people might be fooled into thinking progress has been made. Also it's not much effort and that's really important.
We all know they went for option b).
But they weren't happy! Along with this and other nerfs, being a PPU was now really boring and annoying. Leveling was a total chore, in the case of dex just plain impossible. PvP for PPUs was no fun: overpowered and hated, and at the same time almost powerlless against the new Anti-Buff spell. Something had to be done, and fast! People were losing faith in KKs design decisions.
So they gave us spirit mods. Officially these are rare, but now it seems every man and his dog has one. Firing at the same speed a PPU can rebuff, doing a hearty chunk of damage into the bargain, they are the ultimate expression of the PPU killer. PPUs were finally humbled.
Yes, we are humbled. We can no longer devote our ENTIRE setup to DEFENSE and reasonably expect to keep even ourselves alive, let alone our comrades. We are humbled by worthlessness, overcome by defencelessness and crushed by inferiority.
Well done KK. PPUs are, as you intended, no fun at all to play. I salute you.
Yours sincerely,
A dead PPU, killed by three quite good players, made awesome by the power of KKs hatred of their own game design.
-----------------
I tried to make the poll fair this time. Discuss :D
Remove the mods or at least rework them. And if they get a rework, give people a chance to get them without paying shitloads for em.
Dont remove the antibuff though, that ones fine i think.
Remove PPUs then spirit mods wont be overpowered or just remove both.
Remove both BUT also completely rework monks. Though specifially PPUs, and to a much lesser extent blessed hybrids. I don't think there's much wrong with APUs (but a redesigned damage system like SD's reticle based system wouldn't hurt). Spirit mods and antibuff aren't the way to go, but a class which when played well can take 5 or even 10 players to kill is never going to be balanced. Having a balanced, mixed team should have its advantages, but no single class should be needed for a team to stand a fair chance of winning a fight, not HAB-wielding APUs, not Spirit SH carrying Spies, and not PPUs.
Shadow Dancer
05-08-04, 20:22
Remove PPUs then spirit mods wont be overpowered or just remove both.
Amen.
Of course that won't happen. *sigh*
I didn't see an option up there that I liked. Without any form of antibuff, no decent ppu will die. To say antibuffs made ppu life "hell" is(once again :rolleyes: ) a tremendous exaggeration. It's the only way a good ppu will die. So not being vulnerable to anything will be the only way ppus are fun? Riiight.
Anyways, I think the monk class(really just ppu and hybrids) need a complete rework. APUs don't *need* a complete rework. Because the main problem always has to do with shield/buffs. That's why hybrids were insanely overpowered previously, and that's why ppus are super important now. But apu has no buffs. Too much offense? Just tweak it. APU is like the other classes IMO.
Anyhoo, I would only accept all forms of antiBOOFs being removed if ppu defense was *significantly* toned down. But I doubt KK will do that. I never seen them completely remove anything. So PPUs will have to be reworked to be less important and not so necassary. A good apu/tank and a ppu can take down a group of people without a ppu. That's not balance.
So my *vote*(which isn't up there :p) is to let antiboofs stay and rework ppus/hybrids. PPUs need to be less important, and hybrids still need tweaking IMO. Some hybrids need a boost, others(blessed buffs) need a "negative tweak" :D.
Remove both BUT also completely rework monks. Though specifially PPUs, and to a much lesser extent blessed hybrids. I don't think there's much wrong with APUs (but a redesigned damage system like SD's reticle based system wouldn't hurt). Spirit mods and antibuff aren't the way to go, but a class which when played well can take 5 or even 10 players to kill is never going to be balanced. Having a balanced, mixed team should have its advantages, but no single class should be needed for a team to stand a fair chance of winning a fight, not HAB-wielding APUs, not Spirit SH carrying Spies, and not PPUs.
Scikar>all
Unlike Scikar though, I don't vote to remove antibuffs and rework ppus. Because I feel that KK will never tone down their defense. If KK DOES tone down their defense(alot) then of course antibuffs should be kicked to the curb or changed to do something else.
Yours sincerely,
A dead PPU, killed by three quite good players, made awesome by the power of KKs hatred of their own game design.
Can you please clarify something for the record. Are you ranting because it only took "three quite good" players to kill one monk?
N
Can you please clarify something for the record. Are you ranting because it only took "three quite good" players to kill one monk?
N
Seem he doesnt believe that his PPU shouldnt be able to be killed so hes whining.
Can you please clarify something for the record. Are you ranting because it only took "three quite good" players to kill one monk?
N
No. Did you read my post? The PPU is stupidly overpowered. The only thing more stupid infact is KKs cackhanded attempts to solve the problem.
The PPU is still stupidly overpowered with spirit mods in the game, until a spirit mod user shows up, in which case they're next to useless. The point of the thread was to highlight that spirit mods not only fail to solve the underlying problem, but they also add to the general misery of being a PPU.
Seem he doesnt believe that his PPU shouldnt be able to be killed so hes whining.
Again I would invite you to re-read my post, especially the part where I catagorise the PPU as 'overpowered'.
Edit of my edited edit: I'd be quite happy to see PPUs being far less immortal if setup and skill were the deciding factors in staying alive, not whether your opponent has found a nerf bat or not. Personally I voted for the remove both and rework PPUs option. I'd love to be able to concentrate on helping my team rather than trying to be one of these all ego I'm So Great ppus that the gameplay currently encourages.
Seem he doesnt believe that his PPU shouldnt be able to be killed so hes whining.
I get the impression that he is more pissed at the fact that KK keep on adding things in an attempt to fix ppus, but in the end they just cause the PPU a lot more stress and don't really solve the problem.
Clownst0pper
05-08-04, 20:38
Seem he doesnt believe that his PPU shouldnt be able to be killed so hes whining.
Nidhogg, seems he fails to see that any player who survives 3 or more is a god.
Hell, a "good" PPU can take 10+, looks like dying to 3 is just "noobish"
:p
Remove spirit mods as well as untybuff, but leave teh monks alone pls......
To be fair he does have a valid discussion topic, it just wasn't immediately obvious from the post but his second post clears it up. Carry on. :p
N
Nidhogg, seems he fails to see that any player who survives 3 or more is a god.
Hell, a "good" PPU can take 10+, looks like dying to 3 is just "noobish"
:p
I've never claimed to be good at keeping myself alive. It's not something I consider particularly important as a PPU. I'm more interested in keeping my team alive, so my setup is geared towards that.
That said, surviving for about 10 minutes against an APU, a PE with an irritating little freezer pistol thingie, and a Spy with his rapid fire anti-buff seems actually quite reasonable to me, in terms of skill. If it had been a meaningful fight I could have escorted my teammate to a GR in that time. As it happens it was PP and all I lost was some pride and a 5 slot holy rez :p
Hmm I do get quite defensive in these threads :lol:
The main point I want discussed is whether monks should be fun to play, or whether KK should keep adding extra insta-nerf attacks until every player of every class has one.
Dirk_Gently
05-08-04, 21:03
Remove Monks.
Remove Monks.
Hahahaha owned :p
-=BlackBeard=-
05-08-04, 22:36
just get over it ..... we all do imagine 500 daily rant posts on the forums cause some of us get zerged, some get noob buffed, some get fatal and synch killed and bla bla bla
and also ive seen a ppu survive with apus holy anti buffing spys spirit modding so stfu
Remove Monks.
omg yes, i seconds that :p
then remove spirit mods ;)
just get over it ..... we all do imagine 500 daily rant posts on the forums cause some of us get zerged, some get noob buffed, some get fatal and synch killed and bla bla bla
and also ive seen a ppu survive with apus holy anti buffing spys spirit modding so stfu
You're right, I've seen the light. I was so wrong. The power and insight of your arguments have made me realise that infact playing PPU is not frustrating, that PPUs are not overpowered, and that insta-nerf weapons are far better than balancing the classes properly.
Oh...wait...I'm lying. And you're a fucking retard.
Jock Rockwell
05-08-04, 23:30
You're right, I've seen the light. I was so wrong. The power and insight of your arguments have made me realise that infact playing PPU is not frustrating, that PPUs are not overpowered, and that insta-nerf weapons are far better than balancing the classes properly.
Oh...wait...I'm lying. And you're a fucking retard.
If I could rate just this post it would get 5 stars.
Soo funny
Sarcasm > all
just make it pierce the defenses and do damage, theres too many PE's using spirit then healing light, its just boring
It doesn’t take a genius to notice how often the PPU subject comes up. At any given time, you are likely to see 1 or 2 threads on the front page, yet you rarely see threads complaining about the other specializations (with the recent exception of melee).
Lots of people have some very good ideas on how to address the problem, but until KK decides to have a dialogue with the community on the topic, these threads seem pointless. You can find PPU threads going back well over a year. Everything has been said and said a hundred times.
I've never claimed to be good at keeping myself alive. It's not something I consider particularly important as a PPU. I'm more interested in keeping my team alive, so my setup is geared towards that.
It's a shame that you and people like you account for maybe 1 in 20 PPUs at most though. :wtf:
Oh...wait...I'm lying. And you're a fucking retard.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
sarcasam > all
quality
on topic
A ppu should need the protection of his team m8s to stay alive
He should NOT be god like.
He should die to 2 or more people (2 people being risky i.e he has to run off)
Shadow Dancer
06-08-04, 01:15
The main point I want discussed is whether monks should be fun to play, or whether KK should keep adding extra insta-nerf attacks until every player of every class has one.
Can you do me a favor and list all the things that make ppu not so fun to play? Or is it just antibuffs?
Also specify if you mean ppus or all monks. I don't see how apus are not fun to play. Aside from taking 3204709327432097 years to heal health, I think apus are loads of fun to play.
Also, I think Raybilly bob is right. :p I wish KK would let us know their position on this subject. What they expect ppus to do and be capable of, etc.....
tomparadox
06-08-04, 01:22
Spirit Mods: Why do KK hate PPUs so much
Because there overpowerd.
Dont remove them or rework them, if you do nerf the damn ppu a bit so that it dont take a F*ckin army to take one down.
The spirit thingy is not overpowerd it just SUX
that you get shot with spirit mod and then noob buffed !
THE NOOB BUFF AFTER IS THE FUCKING ANOYING THING.
My point :)
I don't see what the problem is really, maybe spirit mods is a little overpowered. Yes my main character is a PPU, just dinged psi 100, so call me biased I don't care.
Antibuff, well nothing wrong there, if the PPU knows what hes doing he can rebuff pretty quick, but if there's a few other people attacking him its a bit hard.
Spirit mods, well they ARE still rare IMO, but even so, it means a PPU is a bit more vulnerable, which was needed, but if he doesn't stand out in the open, and doesn't screw up or get ganked at the same time he's ok. If they shoot you up close you hear the sniper rifle sound so you should be checking your buffs anyway.
And yes, fix noobie buffs.
they should just make it so noone can buff ppu's exept them selves....no more n00b buffibg..
tomparadox
06-08-04, 02:26
they should just make it so noone can buff ppu's exept them selves....no more n00b buffibg..
Ok, im going to be honest and say what i think on this because im geting sick of this subject.
What the fuck for? so that the only way to kill a PPU is to get an apu or a spy to spirit mod him, oh wait, you all whant that nerfed too now? WTF is the point in makeing them even MORE damn powerful than they already are?
All the PPUs bitching about it, cry me a river, get over it. Shit happens.
Ok, im going to be honest and say what i think on this because im geting sick of this subject.
What the fuck for? so that the only way to kill a PPU is to get an apu or a spy to spirit mod him, oh wait, you all whant that nerfed too now? WTF is the point in makeing them even MORE damn powerful than they already are?
All the PPUs bitching about it, cry me a river, get over it. Shit happens.
The point is that atm it is very, very stressful to play a PPU, and therefore rarely enjoyable. [Most] PPUs are not asking to be the uber god of everything, they want their class to be less stressful to play, and the way to do that is to remove things like noob buffs and spirit mods and instead balance the PPU some other way.
Another option: Remove PPU's.
tomparadox
06-08-04, 02:41
Another option: Remove PPU's.
5 star to that, but then all the n00bs would be exposed and cant screem how "h4rdc0r3" they are and start bitching on the forums Oo...
Can you do me a favor and list all the things that make ppu not so fun to play?
I thought no one was going to ask :D
But first, a disclaimer. These are the things that annoy me when playing PPU. They might not annoy other PPUs (but from experience I believe they do).
1) Spirit mod. It's silent, rapid fire, long range. Unless the spy is sat on your head you won't even notice its happened. It's very frustrating to suddenly see yourself dying and by the time you've noticed and recast shelter the spy is firing his gun again. At this point it's all a PPU can do to keep themselves alive, let alone do any PPUing.
2) Anti-Buff. To a far lesser extent. It's quite slow, short ranged, and makes a loud noise when it goes off. I don't like it because it's a cludge fix to a serious problem, and it doesn't actually fix it at all. To give a comparison, lets say we agreed (ha!) that melee was overpowered, and KK decided to act on our agreement...instead of balancing melee they give PEs a gun that makes melee users drop their sword on the ground. Anti-Buff is the same sort of thing, a completely disproportional 'fix', that is no damn fun for PPUs.
3) Para. Most people hate para, therefore most people hate PPUs.
4) DEX gains. I need say no more. KK just plain fucked this up.
5) INT & PSI gains. Why is it that a perfectly reasonable and balanced PPU setup gives me near capped spells, a healthy psi pool, and a combat rank of 87? I can't level for shit. To get any gains at all I need to take out halve my chips and leave dozens of points unspent (or opt for a keep myself alive setup, versus my preferred keep my team alive setup).
6) PPU spells. Why are they all geared towards individual protection? Why is it every spell is easier to cast on myself than on my team? Why do group spells hit people not in my team? KK have created an overpowered PPU monster, and even PPUs who want to be team-oriented can't because of the crap spells available to them. Give me a group heal that heals my team dammit.
7) Helping newbies. Why do PPUs get no gains for helping newbies level? Is there some fundamental difference between watching a 0/2 hack away at a mob for hours compared to a 60/60 player doing the same? Gains should be exponentially higher relative to the player rank, so low gains for low players, but there should still be gains.
8) General overpoweredness. PPUs are as welcome in PP as a fart in a lift, and yet are also completely vital for PvP. Who wants to be a class that is hated most of the time, but suddenly everyones best friend when they need a heal?
I guess those are my main gripes. There are others that are pretty minor, like why does dmg boost work on players, but it's not stuff I lose sleep over :D
I feel for you Mr Chumble as i have 2 ppus as well, though....
i think it would be best if they remove them completely :p
:lol: :lol: :lol:
when your being hit by a dev your buffs go off the screen, then someone hits u with a spirit mod and you get a tl25 shelter on. funfun.
remove spirit mods or change them to doing something un stupid
when your being hit by a dev your buffs go off the screen, then someone hits u with a spirit mod and you get a tl25 shelter on. funfun.
remove spirit mods or change them to doing something un stupid
The above requires 3 different people attacking you. You don't think you should have a hard time?
5) INT & PSI gains. Why is it that a perfectly reasonable and balanced PPU setup gives me near capped spells, a healthy psi pool, and a combat rank of 87? I can't level for shit. To get any gains at all I need to take out halve my chips and leave dozens of points unspent (or opt for a keep myself alive setup, versus my preferred keep my team alive setup).
you can lower your rank by not using capped spells, for leveling unless its mc5 you dont need to have top end fully capped stuff to keep a team alive.
when i had my blessed ppu i could stand with a grim and keep all the team alive while being hit
and maybe level with spies who get ranks of 70+ apus who get similar
hell a clan mate whos ppu is ranked 74 was getting decent xp of my rank 60 tank.
8) General overpoweredness. PPUs are as welcome in PP as a fart in a lift, and yet are also completely vital for PvP. Who wants to be a class that is hated most of the time, but suddenly everyones best friend when they need a heal?
maybe cos ppus ruin the fun in pp, people go there to have fun fighting, not to have some retart given god mode to players so its a waste of time fighting.
Make PPU spells get a certain 'Fizzle' percentage then they are used, like ammo from a rifle can miss a target. Say, before a battle, everyone can be sure to get buffs (if it fails, just recast) but in the middle of the battle a holy shelter cast at someone who MABY get it decrease the reliability of PPU's. Maby even some people will fight without them totally..
With all respect to your usual good posts ezza and ichinin, I think you've both missed the point that being a PPU is not fun, which is my main issue.
I'm not debating that they're overpowered - I'm a PPU and I know they are. The point is that reducing their power should not have to go hand in hand with making them less fun to play (as a 'fizzle' % on spells would). Don't make heal less reliable, make it less effective...the obvious solutions are usually the best :D
I get the impression that he is more pissed at the fact that KK keep on adding things in an attempt to fix ppus, but in the end they just cause the PPU a lot more stress and don't really solve the problem.
hell yes, bingo!, 5 fucking stars...
The spirit thingy is not overpowerd it just SUX
that you get shot with spirit mod and then noob buffed !
THE NOOB BUFF AFTER IS THE FUCKING ANOYING THING.
My point
this point is right on target, when a spy hits you with a spirit mod you have_no_ warning until you actually lose your shelter, it then takes you 1/2 seconds to realise your buffs are gone, select your shelter and press fire to rebuff, and if there is a ppu nearby armed with a nice tl25 shelter,and the two guys are on a comms system, all the spirit mod sniper has to do is tell his ppu buddy who he is shooting, the ppu then noob buffs, then the spirit mod sniper can then whip out a nice healing light and fuck up the ppu....
am not totally sure, but maybe even a pe could noob buff if he specced enough into psu and hit with a nice judge, and now your gonna tell me its not hard to kill a ppu?
yep, great fun.
Valid point about the noob buffs. Hate when people use it (the ida about better buffs going over lesser ones would fix it, since players are too .... dumb)
I was going to post about SH and Spirit mod also, but I dont want to say anything before i get online and get some facts down. I dont want to say the SH is so and so slow etc ... but to make some valid comparison between the ppus ability to buff himself and spy desheltering etc.
Thing is, that comments like :
"firing at the same speed a ppu can rebuff"
"doing a hearty chunk of damage into the bargain"
"a Spy with his rapid fire anti-buff"
will only mislead and hype people up, who may not have, real experience about the weapon. (not talking about any idividuals, but if some noob reads this, and votes, leaning hes judgement to those comments...)
note: I agree that Spirit mod is not perfect atm. I could use twaking. In some thread, there was a idea about making the bullets recyclabe from only one type of "rareish" junk. That would prevent people using it, to some extent, because tbh. in a OP fight a spy can easysly burn thourg 30-45 clips SH ammo.
just to add, yes the arguement to make them remove deflector instead of shelter, doesn't really solve the problem, instead of:
Noob shelter, its noob deflector,
Pain easer instead of healing light,
Melee instead of APU.
Dirk_Gently
06-08-04, 15:19
At this point it's all a PPU can do to keep themselves alive, let alone do any PPUing.
I do love these people who think that PPUs should be some kind of invulnerable "God" class. PPUs shouldn't be able to PPU anyone if they are being directly attacked, that is insane. I have a PPU and find it ridiculous that I can stand and take it from a Tank pasting me with a CS.
PPUs have utterly destroyed the game, OP fights now come down to who has the most PPUs.
Either get rid of all "Holy" Modules or get rid of the PPU, they totally screw the game.
I do love these people who think that PPUs should be some kind of invulnerable "God" class.
I swear to god that the next person who quotes me out of context, then attributes opinons to me that are the complete opposite of what I'm saying, is going to be so...um...thinged...with the thing that they'll be....you know...thingied. Fucking internet is useless for threats.
isnt this yesterdays daily whine? shouldnt you be working on todays.
isnt this yesterdays daily whine? shouldnt you be working on todays.
Well if people would stop bumping the thread... :rolleyes:
I haven't died yet in NC today so I don't have a new pet hate to play with. Don't worry though, I'm working on an OT thread* that should be quite sexciting**.
*this is not a lie.
** this is.
ok thanks for the heads up, ill try my best to avoid it
ok thanks for the heads up, ill try my best to avoid it
Oooh bitchy. Nice to see my gift for offending people hasn't dulled over the years 8|
Oooh bitchy. Nice to see my gift for offending people hasn't dulled over the years 8|
belive me i aint offended, id just rather avoid it, its rare i find the off topic crap in this forum of interest
Shadow Dancer
06-08-04, 17:54
So Mr. Chumble if MJS came to you and said "I'll give you my rolex if you balance ppus for me", what changes would you make to make the class more fun and less overpowered(or overimportant as some would say)?
here's the solution :p
- Decrease monkies con to 20 (increase dex, so we may have pistol ppu monkies and maybe to str a little)
- Decrease power of all ppu spells by 50%
that should do the trick...
and on the topic of noob buffing, i really dont see any problem here... It's the legitimate way of weaken them, the only reliable one tbh. I want to be able to kill a ppu *solo* with every class, and noob buffing is the only way to do it, even with that its hard as hell. If u give every single class in this game something similiar to antibuff/spirit mod (noob buffing is basically an antibuff, just the weaker wersion of it), then you will have no problems with noob buffs.
And yeah, little info for all the morons out there who will surely come with the "lol nib i bet u never played a ppu" quotes. I have 2 ppus. Still i dont have a problem with it. If someone noob buff me and i'll die it only means he was better and i need to improve my skills. People just stopped to adapt, they whine instead.
So Mr. Chumble if MJS came to you and said "I'll give you my rolex if you balance ppus for me", what changes would you make to make the class more fun and less overpowered(or overimportant as some would say)?
It's hard to give specifics, if it was as easy as deciding what to do then doing it I'm sure even KK could have balanced them by now :p These are some ideas, but the end result (ie PPU being balanced and fun) is more important than the method used.
What I'd like to see is PPUs being more team focused. Their group heals and buffs should be reduced in effectiveness, but should only affect people in their team. That way the emphasis is shifted from anal camping one person to working as a team. Again the exact level of reduction needed can't really be gauged on paper.
It should be possible to level dex. I don't care how, but it shouldn't require exploiting just to do something as basic as level a stat.
Int & Psi should be gained from anyone in team, regardless of level, as discussed in my earlier post.
The power of self-cast heals and buffs (and so also direct foreign casts) should be reduced. A rough guesstimate would be about half way between current blessed and holy levels, possibly less. That would help deal with the overpowered aspect. In trade, to increase the fun side of things, self cast spells should override foreign cast spells. Cast time on anti-buff should be increased, spirit mods should be removed.
As I said the specifics aren't too important (and, frankly, are KKs problem). The goal is to make PPUs reason for being "to keep the team alive" not "to keep themselves alive" and they should have the tools to do it. To balance that their own defenses should be weaker, but far less subject to outside interference (noob buffs, anti-buff, spirit mod, noob buffs. oh and noob buffs).
I guess the ideal situation would be that targeting a PPU while there are attackers around wouldn't be effective use of attack power, but once the attackers are dead the PPU is basically stuffed, without the need for dumbass weapons or lame tactics.
here's the solution :p
- Decrease monkies con to 20 (increase dex, so we may have pistol ppu monkies and maybe to str a little)
- Decrease power of all ppu spells by 50%
that should do the trick...Rofl. I actually think thats a good suggestion, but I cant imagine trying to raise dex any higher. You need to add the step.
- Monks gain dex through team experience. ;)
Shadow Dancer
06-08-04, 18:41
- Decrease monkies con to 20 (increase dex, so we may have pistol ppu monkies and maybe to str a little)
- Decrease power of all ppu spells by 50%
The problem here is ppu buffs, so please let's not screw over apu/hybrids by slashing their con by 20.
The power of self-cast heals and buffs (and so also direct foreign casts) should be reduced. A rough guesstimate would be about half way between current blessed and holy levels, possibly less. That would help deal with the overpowered aspect. In trade, to increase the fun side of things, self cast spells should override foreign cast spells. Cast time on anti-buff should be increased, spirit mods should be removed.
Actually I was thinking of a much greater decrease in defense. I don't think that suggested decrease is enough to justify removing noob buffing, spirit mods, and making cast time on anti-buff even longer.
Actually I was thinking of a much greater decrease in defense. I don't think that suggested decrease is enough to justify removing noob buffing, spirit mods, and making cast time on anti-buff even longer.
As a blessed hybrid I did ok, with heals and buffs at around 350%. I couldn't quite outheal a sustained attack (ie if I stood still) from one person, but if I moved around I was ok.
To take PPUs down to that level I think would need some pretty hefty tradeoffs - being just able to outheal one person when you move around makes you a PE not a PPU :p
It's hard to get right. Maybe capped blessed + 25% of the difference between blessed and holy? It's hard to say without playtesting.
Shadow Dancer
06-08-04, 18:47
How about giving ppus other perks?
Like teleportation............
How about giving ppus other perks?
Like teleportation............Yah Ive suggested it in the past. If PPUs were able to teleport and cast gate like in Ultima Online then that would be the ultimate win. (Assuming they were also toned down in power).
How about giving ppus other perks?
Like teleportation............
Well for my part no, as it doesn't address the issues that are key to me, ie that being a PPU is a pain in the ass, and trying to PPU a team is futile.
I'd happily take a huge nerf if it meant I could control when I buff and heal myself.
wheres the "remove Chumble" option? :'(
Shadow Dancer
06-08-04, 18:55
wheres the "remove Chumble" option? :'(
lmfao
Well for my part no, as it doesn't address the issues that are key to me, ie that being a PPU is a pain in the ass, and trying to PPU a team is futile.
I meant that in ADDITION to solving the problems that make it stressful to be a PPU. Like additional perks that don't wreck the balance of pvp but make PPU more fun to play.
s
I meant that in ADDITION to solving the problems that make it stressful to be a PPU. Like additional perks that don't wreck the balance of pvp but make PPU more fun to play.
Well if I get to PPU my team, not be bitched at for being overpowered, not be nerfed from 600 metres by an <edited> spy every 2 seconds and teleport I'd be as happy as a pig in shit.
Get on it KK! :)
PPUs are fine. A capped PPU should not be killable by anything less than a team of 2-3 capped players. I agree about fixing noob buffing, self-cast buffs should override foreign-cast bufs. I think spirit mods can stay, but there should be some sort of (small) warning like a flash. Nothing like the anti-shield, the warning on that is too over-the-top.
Why should PPUs be unkillable solo? They earned that by giving up any kind of offense (no, I don't call SCs or parashock an offense).
However, I agree that PPUs are relied upon too much during PvP and PvM. I would agree to lessening the effectiveness of foreign cast buffs, shields, and heals while shortening rez-time a little.
The net effect is that you can't kill the PPU, you can kill his team, he can rez the team, but his buffs won't do much to keep those he rezzed from going straight back down.
In a non-warzone, that means multiple belts you drop. Anyone will give up after one or two times of this. Even in warzones it would be quite annoying to come up and go right back down, even the most persistent will give up after a few tries.
Every re-rez means the PPU isn't getting his whole team back up (which seems to be a complaint about the rez-time).
Oh, and there should be a yes/no question popup anytime a rez is started that has to be answered by the time the rez is finished. This will stop rez-killing.
Why should PPUs be unkillable solo? They earned that by giving up any kind of offense (no, I don't call SCs or parashock an offense).
Remove the para and the SC from ppus - then i'll agree with you.
But as for now, they should be killable in 1on1 combat. Every class should have their own antibuffs and atm noob buffing is the only way to solo a ppu.
Shadow Dancer
06-08-04, 20:14
Xylaz you can't honestly call SC and parashock, "offense".
james_finn
06-08-04, 20:29
Why should PPUs be able to be solo'd? What does that give us PPUs as are main style?
ONOZ here comes a spy, sorry team I have to run before he can kill me........ O_o
I disagree with that, but as I have always maintained being a PPU is the most stressful character to play, and yes we are over powered, but we dont need a straight nerf do that everyone can kill us. Other people dont need more antibuff weapons coz again that would make our time much harder. I personally dont know what PPUs need to rebalance them..... but then Im not being paid by MJS to work it out.
Delphi
Xylaz you can't honestly call SC and parashock, "offense".
Well, it might be true about SC, but parashock is an offensive ability for sure. It gives the ppu power of rendering any unit almost defenseless. It doesnt inflict any major damage, that's true, but it does something much much more powerful.
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