View Full Version : [Brainport] Deflector Piercing Bullets
The idea's been tossed around a bit, I posted it in another thread, but it's not gonna be seen on the 7th page. It's not that complex, but would really help out a lot.
The idea is for bullets that are capable of piercing deflector and hitting the target with full (or maybe 80-90% if thats too powerful) damage. The deflector is not effected, it doesn't go poof like shelter from a spirit modded bullet. The point is to provide a way to deal more damage to buffed chars while not royaly fucking them by stripping their defenses.
I believe this would be a much better answer then the spirit mod.
Yes, awesome idea. 5 stars.
Also. If it was implemented like this, it could lead to other opportunities for Spirit bullets. For example, a Liberator could have spirit bullets that do their base piercing damage, but go straight through shields at a _much_ lower reduction in strength than a Silent Hunter. This would make it worthless on players without shelter/deflector, but would make it worthwhile against those that do.
Tis the way I always thought spirit mods should work and still think they should.
Hmm so only the spies will gain from this?
If its going to become another rare ammo mod which only a small percentage of the population can use, man will that suck.
Mumblyfish
04-08-04, 00:28
Hmm so only the spies will gain from this?
...I think he's hinting at it being usable for both spies and PEs, mainly those who use the Liberator/Wyatt/Pain Easer range.
...I think he's hinting at it being usable for both spies and PEs, mainly those who use the Liberator/Wyatt/Pain Easer range.
Well that just leaves tanks with no weapons designed to be used against ppus and I dont think gats are an option for a deflector piercing bullet.Personally if PEs are to use it all their weapons have too high a RoF so maybe a rare street model rifle with a spirit mod?
No, i really dislike how elite the spirit mod is and how huge an advantage it gives, so this would definitly not be that rare. The Penalty should be worked in it's damage vs clip size or deflector/nondeflector dmg, not in how difficult it is to obtain.
Well that just leaves tanks with no weapons designed to be used against ppus and I dont think gats are an option for a deflector piercing bullet.Personally if PEs are to use it all their weapons have too high a RoF so maybe a rare street model rifle with a spirit mod?Its not the matter of giving spies a new item. At the very least its a suggestion on the way the spirit mod should actually work.
In my post, however, I mentioned how it would be cool if other specific guns had this feasiblity. Its good to keep the long term in mind when making changes like this, but mainly Im curious whether people think is a good replacement effect of the spirit mod.
Lets not get bogged down by a class argument of who should have what just yet. :p Just this--> Spirit Mod: shelter removing or shield passing.
Also Car seems to be thinking along my lines, Id like to see it as an ammo mod as easy to get as an xray mod.
Poor psi's. :rolleyes:
Worst idea ever in my opinion :P
Should drop as rare parts or in the level 3 tunnels.
@Jest its not the damage a libby does that botheres me its the RoF that it fires at which I think is too high for a deflector piercing weapon.
Poor psi's. :rolleyes:
Worst idea ever in my opinion :PMyself as a PPU for a long time and keeping the overall balance of the game in mind, I support this idea 100%. It would change the balance and important of PPUs big time, but only on the level of PvP. Every one with objections to decreasing PPU strength as far as monster hunting/leveling goes has nothing to argue with on this one.
@Jest its not the damage a libby does that botheres me its the RoF that it fires at which I think is too high for a deflector piercing weapon Well tbh I dont think it should either, that was just an off hand suggestion using the first piercing weapon I thought of. Slow RoF weapons would be the best to have them.
Earps and silent hunters are the only current weapons with a low enough RoF and even the earp is slightly too high, also the silent hunter is out of most PEs range so thats why I suggested a rare street model rifle other then that make the mod useable in commando snipers aswell as silent hunters.
This definately has to be limited to certain guns...I don't want to see tanks with speed gats pounding deflector piercing ammo at a PPU and hitting it like an unbuffed APU...If the limits are correct and this is considered very rare, just as rare as spirit mod/ammo then it would be nice :)
This definately has to be limited to certain guns...I don't want to see tanks with speed gats pounding deflector piercing ammo at a PPU and hitting it like an unbuffed APU
Agreed but Tanks shouldnt be left as the only class with no effective offence aginst ppus either.
...i really dislike how elite the spirit mod is and how huge an advantage it givesDitto. I am against any ultra-rare item that gives someone a significant advantage in PvP. There are entirely too many MMORPGs where items decide the day. skill > items
It would change the balance and important of PPUs big time, but only on the level of PvP.I disagree. Every time a change makes PPUs more killable, it simply means that each side needs to have MORE PPUs in case some are killed off early. It does absolutely nothing to address the real problem.
I asked this last week and nobody answered me. To those of you who have played many MMORPGs… Is there any game where the Healer class is balanced? If so, then perhaps we need to see how they do it. I have heard from a friend who played DAoC and AO and he said that in both games the Healer class is just as uber-important and unbalanced in PvP as it is here.
I honestly do not know why there needs to be one specialty for healing. It should be possible to have plenty of fun, varied, and important roles without any of them being responsible for buffing and healing.
Pretty good idea, would not overpower a PE, coz they have capped resist force, tanks have naturally high resist thru armour, spies, err, yeah well :p
Not sure I'd agree with it being on something like a libby though, the ROF on that and the damage it does is way too high to allow something like this, for the pain easer maybe, for the earp, probably, however I would like to see a little adjustment to the ROF on both guns too if modded with something like this.
Raybob: Like Jest said this really would have a huge impact. Up until now kk has only increased ways to debuff ppus. Everytime they do it becomes harder/more stressful to play a ppu. Instead of debuffing having piercing bullets would not be anymore stressful then the way it is now, infact it will be less stressful. Nolonger will my buffs suddenly vanish, nolonger will I drop like a sack of stones out of nowehere. Instead I'll be hurt, I'll be forced to run and recover or have my team take out the attacker. The effect will be the same in that the ppu's team effectiveness is reduced, but it'll be much more fair to the ppu.
rob444: I understand how easy it is to become used to bein invulnerable, but it is possible to have even more fun when you're not. There was a time once when Monks were weak to piercing. Everyone carried an alt piercing weapon, which they would switch to if they fought a monk. To have a known weakness was exciting. If you're lucky the enemy might not be prepared to fight a monk and only have useless energy weapons. If not, then you're up for a challenging fight... but it's not hopeless. You have a team to help out, you will need to rely on nonmonks for help. Isn't that awful, making monks depend on non monks? : )
Likewise, in regards to Tanks. I don't think Tanks should have deflector piercing bullets. Though they won't be good at killing monks, Tanks would be excellent at killing the other two classes. I believe that would make for an interesting balance.
Up until now kk has only increased ways to debuff ppus. Everytime they do it becomes harder/more stressful to play a ppu. Instead of debuffing having piercing bullets would not be anymore stressful then the way it is now, infact it will be less stressful. Nolonger will my buffs suddenly vanish, nolonger will I drop like a sack of stones out of nowehere…it'll be much more fair to the ppu. Do you remember when the Devourer enjoyed its few weeks of glory? That was not a way of debuffing PPUs, it was simply a weapon that was finally able to do good damage to them despite their shielding. At first, many PPUs dropped instantly to it but in no time at all the better PPUs adjusted and returned to their thrones. Your suggestion is simply to create a new Devourer and give it to spies and PEs.
In my opinion, the over importance of PPUs in PvP is the bigger problem. I would rather address the real problem instead of tweaking one method of killing them.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that the Spirit mod is unbalanced. I simply do not agree that changing it as you suggest would solve the PPU problem. Would it be better than the current version? Yes, but I still do not see how it will have the “huge” impact that you and Jest seem to think it will have. The OP fight will be still be determined by which side has more and the better PPUs. Making PPUs easier to kill simply makes the better PPUs stand out and amplifies their importance.
I believe that all classes should be able to buff, shield, and heal themselves. I do not think you will have balance until the entire PPU specialty is eliminated. You can have plenty of variety in play styles and combat roles without having to assign all the crucial skills to a single specialization.
Monks are good at killing tanks and everybody else, they are as effective as tanks at doing so if not more effective so why should tanks be weak at attacking them when every other class wouldnt be.
The only way to remove the need for ppus is to remove ppus, personally the best idea Ive heard is to remove all ppu spells over tl 40 and reduce ressurection to tl 40 and we have non-overpowered hybrids and no major ppu problems.
Shadow Dancer
04-08-04, 04:46
I like the idea. But I think spirit mod should stay the way it is. Carinth do you want this to replace spirit mod?
Also, maybe now PE vs PE battles won't last so damn long. :p
..i..DemonX
04-08-04, 05:31
Hmm isnt it like "remove deflector mod"?
I like the idea, but to be perfectly honest I can't see the difference between that and weakening holy deflector. If there's a weapon or ammo mod which allows you to deal full damage to a deflectored target then surely the result is just as if the target had no deflector to begin with? Thus everybody will carry one of these weapons as part of their standard loadout, effectively rendering deflectors pointless. Restricting the weapons to a certain class or classes only is also pointless, the whole point is to reduce reliance on any class, not to just shift it from the PPU to someone else.
how about they cut thru a deflector, but dont do full damage, say pierce /2 then instead of doing full 70dmg, it would only do 35 dmg, whilst with a holy deflector it might do 2 dmg.
Raybob: The flamethrower dev killed because people neglected poison and the fast stacking lets it quickly hide your buffs. PPU's adjusted by using anti poison sanct and making sure they never stay still long near a dev tank. With deflector piercing bullets, there's nothing aside from heal/heal sanct that will help a ppu. So no, even the most skilled ppu will hafta run. I agree that this doesn't address ppu importance, but frankly unless the ppu is scrapped or rebuilt from the ground up, that's not gonna happen.
Mr Snow: Monks may be able to kill all the other classes, but Monks will have a weakness to piercing/force. Tanks don't have a similar weakness, which is why its fair.
Shad: Yes i did intend this to replace the spirit mod, I'd like to get rid of the whole lot of antibuffing, but ah welll. Having both deflector piercing bulllets and spirit mods would be... a little bit too much. PPU's would end up with defenses not much better then an APU. We'd drop like flies.
Scikar: First there's the fact that an additional weapon to carry means higher chance of losing it in a belt. Then there's carrying additional ammo and planning who you're going to be fighting. I disagree that everyone will easily carry around an anti monk weapon. Even if they do, it doesn't make deflector worthless. Nomore then antibuff makes shelter worthless.
Lexx: Yea thats a good compromise, afterall the point is not to make ppu's drop like flies, rather to have them be hurt more realisticly. You could even make the damage% done through deflector depend inversely on the rof of the weapon. So that you could have an antideflector modded Lib, deals less damage but hits more often.
i really wouldnt like to see a libby with any kind of ammo that can slice through a deflector, even at 50% dmg, the rof would make all classes drop like flies, so it should be kept for weapons with a 140ish rof.
Shadow Dancer
04-08-04, 20:22
Lexx: Yea thats a good compromise, afterall the point is not to make ppu's drop like flies, rather to have them be hurt more realisticly. You could even make the damage% done through deflector depend inversely on the rof of the weapon. So that you could have an antideflector modded Lib, deals less damage but hits more often.
50%? That's not enough. The liberator is already a weak weapon. I think it should completely bypass deflector at 100% damage. I say this only because liberator is weak. At least IMO.
greendonkeyuk
04-08-04, 20:32
I like the idea. its a tonne better than the one i suggested for sure. The tanks however could possibly have a problem accessing a weapon like this as they have no slowfire single shot weapons. The only viable weapon that springs to mind is the moonstriker to mod like this. However that already does massive pierce and force damage so it might make that gun overpowered.
Could there be room for a "street model cannon?" some sort of bolt action big assed shoulder cannon thing. Maybe they could even give them to mutants, hc mutants... that would be fun. Sorry im wandering off topic, i agree tanks would need something similar (hc tanks) but i think melee with the poison mods should be ok by now.
Cough PoB only 39/min Cough j/k
Moonstriker is way too inacturate to be useful in this case anyway, there is no current weapon in the HC arsenal that could be used without being stupidly overpowered.
Shadow Dancer
04-08-04, 20:44
Cough PoB only 39/min Cough j/k
Moonstriker is way too inacturate to be useful in this case anyway, there is no current weapon in the HC arsenal that could be used without being stupidly overpowered.
What about grenades?
I was thinking that but grenades are unusable in their current form and are stupidly hard to aim etc, aswell as being used up too fast, tyhey need to be stackable to even begin to be usable.
i say all low tech weps (cept h-c)can use this "Deflector Piercing Mod"
[EDIT]-man i just thought, this is a fuking sexy idea
id love my PE so much more ...sex to Crainth..now to KK to implement it..
plus it would make it so much more balanced........
5 stars
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