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Capped pierce & force, 110 por resist. Capped tl3 deflector on. Killed in five strokes, ie 3 seconds. Discuss.
Magic Sausage
03-08-04, 19:56
Llamas Like Melee :P
Capped pierce & force, 110 por resist. Capped tl3 deflector on. Killed in five strokes, ie 3 seconds. Discuss.
Dont stand still, melee needs to be brought back to pre-patch damage, but it needs to keep the alternative damages even if the poison on claws gets changed to something different other wise it will be back to the stage where sheltered and deflectored enemies were too hard to kill.
steweygrrr
03-08-04, 20:00
Capped pierce & force, 110 por resist. Capped tl3 deflector on. Killed in five strokes, ie 3 seconds. Discuss.
Which melee rare? What class? What armour? How much HP you got because it takes me god knows how long to kill another tank with capped PoB, certainly a lot more than 5 strokes.
I will not dignify this poll with a selection, Melee is fine, do not stand still and you probably won't even get hurt. (Especially if you know what you're doing).
Which melee rare? What class? What armour? How much HP you got because it takes me god knows how long to kill another tank with capped PoB, certainly a lot more than 5 strokes.
Heavy Combat PE, at the time wearing duranit 4 armour, por belt + viper king armour. Fully buffed. I can't remember my HP offhand but iirc it's approx 330.
And please no one else say "Don't stand still." I was circle strafing while you were still in nappies :p
Increase range, lower damage. That would be a step in the right direction imo.
steweygrrr
03-08-04, 20:16
Heavy Combat PE, at the time wearing duranit 4 armour, por belt + viper king armour. Fully buffed. I can't remember my HP offhand but iirc it's approx 330.
And please no one else say "Don't stand still." I was circle strafing while you were still in nappies :p
Yes but what rare? That would have done naff all vs dentist and DG on account of the damage types (xray and energy for DG and pierce/force/fire for dentist). HP would be a factor in that as well as less HP = easier to cripple. Also (as I don't pay much attention =P) is melee damage locational and does it decrease as HP decreases?
Yes but what rare? That would have done naff all vs dentist and DG on account of the damage types (xray and energy for DG and pierce/force/fire for dentist). HP would be a factor in that as well as less HP = easier to cripple. Also (as I don't pay much attention =P) is melee damage locational and does it decrease as HP decreases?
Paw of Bear, which afaik does pierce/force/por?
steweygrrr
03-08-04, 20:20
Paw of Bear, which afaik does pierce/force/por?
Bang on. I'm at a loss then to explain that then. All I can say is that even vs a clanmates pistol PE, it took me far longer to kill him than 5 hits, even when I used my shocker (well I have to compensate for his speed somehow :p)
Is your poison resist all from armour and a BR2 or do you have it specced in your con setup?
Is your poison resist all from armour and a BR2 or do you have it specced in your con setup?
I have approx 50 base. I can't check exactly as I'm waiting for a rez :)
TheGreatMilenko
03-08-04, 21:15
its not overpowered and i hate para and fre
0.0 fully buffed hc pe die's from PoB in 5 swings, it either half assed setup that u have or exploiter tank cuz me hybrid who has about half of protection that hc pe can get drops melee tanks pretty damn quick and can take about 8-10 swing(dint count exactly).... O_o
Shadow Dancer
03-08-04, 21:52
Capped pierce & force, 110 por resist. Capped tl3 deflector on. Killed in five strokes, ie 3 seconds. Discuss.
I find that hard to believe. Even my apu lasts longer than that. Exaggerating the situation doesn't exactly help your credibility.
I have mixed thoughts on melee. I don't know yet whether I would consider it overpowered. I do however consider the melee freezer to overpowered beyond measure, and it should be scrapped.
Increase range, lower damage. That would be a step in the right direction imo.
God no. The range is fine already. Increase the range too much and the whole idea of "melee" goes out the window IMO.
Capped pierce & force, 110 por resist. Capped tl3 deflector on. Killed in five strokes, ie 3 seconds. Discuss.
bullshit
i have capped pierce and force too, 90 poison res, and it takes bout 20 or so hits from a pob to put me down
hence
bullshit
and i like para
you can keep the fres though
Remove the melee freezers and lower the damage a tad. Then it should be fine.
Cant believe 5 hits dropped you. Also cant believe Anna needs 20 hits to go down. o_O What class Anna?
I find that hard to believe. Even my apu lasts longer than that. Exaggerating the situation doesn't exactly help your credibility.
Bullshit
I swear to god, 5 hits. I was dying in 4 before I swapped my Duranit 4 for Viper King.
This is Tinks we're talking about. As you know Shadow :p I can take several hits from HL, more infact than I can take from PoB.
What class Anna?
She's a PPU :rolleyes:
20 hits fully buffed with holy heal....yeah sounds about right.
oops double post by mistake
I swear to god, 5 hits. I was dying in 4 before I swapped my Duranit 4 for Viper King.
If you only have 50 base poison resist you should expect poison to hurt you and since your a HC PE I expect your capped force resist all comes from armour and bone enforcements?If it does then its not capped either as 1 armour point doesnt equal 1 con resist point so you cant cap force resist through armour and the same goes for poison, and for you changing your armour mid battle, my Dont stand still point still stands.
If you only have 50 base poison resist you should expect poison to hurt you and since your a HC PE I expect your capped force resist all comes from armour and bone enforcements?If it does then its not capped either as 1 armour point doesnt equal 1 con resist point so you cant cap force resist through armour and the same goes for poison, and for you changing your armour mid battle, my Dont stand still point still stands.
50 base, + med por belt + viper king is not only a shit load more than I'd generally be using, but should also be more than enough to cope with anything less than pure poison (ie APU spells).
Also you can cap force and pierce just from armour and imps if they total to 200 (which mine don't but do with my base force resist). Most if not all good tanks have no base force resist. You can't cap with just base resist as that has no effect after base 114, assuming it's the same as other resists. Either way I am over-capped so it doesn't really matter.
Lastly I didn't change armour mid battle...I'm not a complete idiot...and I wouldn't have had time, 5 hits remember :rolleyes:
There could be something wildly wrong with my setup to make me so vulnerable to PoB, but I can't see anything.
The freezers are lame, the rest is fine, maybe 2.2% of the damage (OUT OF 100% YOU KNOW HAHA) reduction of that paw of bear.
Shadow Dancer
04-08-04, 00:02
Mr Chumble, I take more than 5 hits from POB(sometimes :p) and I have ZERO poison resist. I also most definitely do not cap force/pierce.
Btw, I *suspect* that having poison resist does not help against POB. I should have seen some type of damage reduction from 0 resist to a heavy poison belt. But I saw none.
shad that could be cause of random damage, though not saying that what you say isnt true.
you know im 1/2 and 1/2about melee tanks
i fought long and hard for melee to me made better, then up to about 4 or 5 patches ago(cant really remember) it was fine.
then they introduced higher damage and damage types on them and streight away you saw the results, made obvious by nearly every tank going melee(except me who went the other way lol )
once upon a time we laughed and joked, har har melees overpowerd blah blah, now would you belive it we say it without joking.
ive been fighting a good melee tank in my clan recently first time we fought my ass was well and truly handed to me, last night we fough again, and although overall she won, i was winning more.
so on my view, im not sure if its because my aim is shall we say a bit sucky atm, or if it really is overpowerd
i mean no good PPU will go down to a melee tank
and i used to take down apus in 5 or 6 swipes of PoB pre boost anyway, remember one op fight i killed 4 apus singlehandedly cos they were dumb enough to attack as there buffs dropped lol
opinions from PEs spies and HC tanks are what im interested in
but one thing for sure, remove that damn shocker.
i wont even fight in PP once a melee user pulls the shocker, i just walk to the zoneline
Melee IMO was overpowered 3 months ago even before they made it better,
I felt I was cheating when I logged my melee tank on. Now after the boost
its just plain stupid.
Melee is not so Over powered and is easy to kill in a large room.
The only thing they should nerf is the freeze, or give us more slots in the belt for more Anti stunt boosts 8| :p
(I play a heavy)
Yub, 5 hits is way too low it seems.
The_Tyrant^
04-08-04, 02:24
im just going to say its over powered and nerf the shocker :P
Clownst0pper
04-08-04, 02:55
im not fucking touching those poll options, your getting a bad rep point for such a biased view and wank polls.
I think it only the tiniest bit overpowered, but the thing that fucks it most is the shocker. its worse than holy parashock.
oh dear, here we go again... (why should i even bother to post here?)
shockers are extremely overpowered TRUE
melee is not overpowered TRUE
PoB is overpowered DUNNO
there is something wierd with PoB indeed, and poison resist doesnt help much really. The difference with 0-60-120 poison resist is like: 35/30/25 per hit.
From my experience it just seems that PoB *might* have a little longer range than it seems to because it hit much more often than any other melee in combat.
And as far as i can see, people still post the same bs as before
Melee can kill a ppu? Than ppu is a joke. Holy heal + holy def outheal pob dmg by far, no need for sanctum or anything else (35 por)
Spy dies in a 4 hits? Well, my spy (45/50) with 50 poison resist (resist 2 incl) can take 6 hits from PoB...
I stated it before and i'll state it again, good player will have no problem against melee, unless caught in a small room/corridor (aka pp zoneline). If you cannot defeat melee in an open area than you're doing something wrong. Melee is a class who has to take an advantage of fighting in a small, crowded places. Other classess have to take an advantage of fighting melee in an open area. Simple as it is.
..i..DemonX
04-08-04, 03:14
Well dont blame anybody for it pls! I play -=SiRoX=- as melee for long now [he was melee long be4 the boost] and now well he is way overpowerd (for sure realy) i was realy like it pre patch because it was a elite class be4. Now it is just a damn winnig team class :mad: ... MAKE MELEE PRE BOOST!!!! GDI!!! THERE WAS NO BOOST NEED ON MELEE!
She's a PPU :rolleyes:
20 hits fully buffed with holy heal....yeah sounds about right.
i was referring to my tank on uranus
monks cant have capped piercing, and what class would i be besides a tank? :p
and 20 hits kill a ppu? no offence, if you cant outheal a pob on a ppu you got crap con, or youre really bad at recasting your buffs
..i..DemonX
04-08-04, 04:30
i was referring to my melee tank on uranus
monks cant have capped piercing, what class would i be besides a tank? :p
I not think that Piercing makes the big diff in resist a melee tank!
I not think that Piercing makes the big diff in resist a melee tank!
a melee tank has the higest piercing/force of all
much higher then hc tanks even
and btw chumble, hc pes definately dont have capped piercing like you say, they even have one of the lowest piercing resists in the game, maybe just above spies, dunno
thats why you take so much damage, not because melee is overpowered, but because you barely have resists against it
Youll probably find that thanks to Lag he had about 10 hits on you before you realised he was there.
Just coz you saw 3 tells me he had a few more than that on you.
Leave melee alone.
& give me more para & FRE's
(Just delete PPU's {& yes I have a PPU, dosent meen i like em}
Can I also take this oppertunity to remind EVERYONE that melee recived a full rework & is in its proper working order, its not that melee is overpowered, the problem is they still havent reworked Pistol, Rifle, Heavy... etc..
So dont nerf a fucken thing, coz then they will rework all other weapon classes & melee will be left behind.. again...
DONT TOUCH MELEE
Please continue the good work already done & rework all other weapons ASAP.
..i..DemonX
04-08-04, 04:51
a melee tank has the higest piercing/force of all
much higher then hc tanks even
and btw chumble, hc pes definately dont have capped piercing like you say, they even have one of the lowest piercing resists in the game, maybe just above spies, dunno
thats why you take so much damage, not because melee is overpowered, but because you barely have resists against it
As i think u cap the Force skill at 115 a PE easy reach that as well so he got same resist for force as a Tank but i was mean that ur Force resist not makes it up against a melee Tank!
I mean PoB does POR, DENTIST do FIR, DG does XRay .... so u have to be good against the side dmg as well!
If a HC PE meet Force resist cap i would realy go so crazy laught about him!
And still Melee was ok be4 the boost! It was just a elite class thats all!
And still Melee was ok be4 the boost!
It was ok maybe imo already too good. Just go back three months and look at
what fenix and me was doing, it wasnt rare to take on 3-5 people then in
crowded places or where there were lots of cover. I fought scores of duels
and virtually never lost, people I had a hard time defeating with Rade just
keeled over when my melee tank got close to em. I remember me and Sirox in
OP wars busting through people before they could react, once we charged up
through the underground into a camping force and we had 2 APUs dead
before they had even started shooting us. Then I went away for three
months - First day I reactivated my chars I went into PP1 to fight some with
my PE and there were 4 ppl in there, I remember tostino being one of them.
After getting suitably pushed out over and over I logged my melee tank and
chopped them up. I talked to the guys afterwards and the comment that
stuck in my mind was "well, theres nothing we can do against you". Its like
fighting against ppus, just boring, I was moving to fast and healing decently
enough for them to be able to do any real damage to me in such cramped
quarters whereas I would kill them in notime, and thats with me not even
remembering where I have most of the buttons.
Its bullshit, melee was imo too good before the boost, now its just retarded.
Clownst0pper
04-08-04, 10:51
It was ok maybe imo already too good. Just go back three months and look at
what fenix and me was doing, it wasnt rare to take on 3-5 people then in
crowded places or where there were lots of cover. I fought scores of duels
and virtually never lost, people I had a hard time defeating with Rade just
keeled over when my melee tank got close to em. I remember me and Sirox in
OP wars busting through people before they could react, once we charged up through the underground into a camping force and we had 2 APUs dead
before they had even started shooting us. Then I went away for three
months - First day I reactivated my chars I went into PP1 to fight some with
my PE and there were 4 ppl in there, I remember tostino being one of them.
After getting suitably pushed out over and over I logged my melee tank and
chopped them up. I talked to the guys afterwards and the comment that
stuck in my mind was "well, theres nothing we can do against you". Its like
fighting against ppus, just boring, I was moving to fast and healing decently
enough for them to be able to do any real damage to me in such cramped
quarters whereas I would kill them in notime, and thats with me not even
remembering where I have most of the buttons.
Its bullshit, melee was imo too good before the boost, now its just retarded.
Rade, your a good player, and can probably play every class well.
Unlike yourself however, and otherskilled players, those who have jumped onto the melee bandwagon stick out so badly.
They just cant play melee.
Basing balancing on your ability to play a class isnt a good thing, as to most people, melee tanks suck.
The only good melee players on saturn are me, and Braini.
Rade, your a good player, and can probably play every class well.
Unlike yourself however, and otherskilled players, those who have jumped onto the melee bandwagon stick out so badly.
They just cant play melee.
Basing balancing on your ability to play a class isnt a good thing, as to most people, melee tanks suck.
The only good melee players on saturn are me, and Braini.
I know how useless it is to involve personal skill in balance issues, and maybe
I wasnt clear enough - Im comparing my results with my PE to my results
with the melee tank - and the result has been hillarious all along. Where it
was/is killing one guy then stealthing/running with the PE its chopping down 4
guys easy with the melee tank. Where its even duels and occationally losing
with the PE its hands down winning with half health left with melee tank. Its
not fun, it feels like Im cheating when Im playing him.
Clownst0pper
04-08-04, 10:58
I know how useless it is to involve personal skill in balance issues, and maybe
I wasnt clear enough - Im comparing my results with my PE to my results
with the melee tank - and the result has been hillarious all along. Where it
was/is killing one guy then stealthing/running with the PE its chopping down 4
guys easy with the melee tank. Where its even duels and occationally losing
with the PE its hands down winning with half health left with melee tank. Its
not fun, it feels like Im cheating when Im playing him.
Well..
I havnt lost in a duel in a long long time, and never to a PE/Spy/APU/Hybrid.
Ive only ever lost to a tank, which was eledhbrant, but he got banned...says it all.
So in some respects I have to agree with you, at OP wars when im being PPUd, its like "APU down", "PPU down", "PE down" and before you know it, half there squads hitting the dirt when there dmg boosted.
I remember at one OP war at grant, and I was after this PPU, he just said "*sigh*, FFS koro" and died..
I still hold by that it isnt overpowered, as no one EVER specs poison resists, my tank is the only one who does out of all my characters
Until people do spec poison resist, POB is always going to fuck you over, as it stands, it really doesnt do alot to me on my tank.
not all ppu's can run cast holy para, and when they do it takes alot of mana
fucking tanks can run shoot electro shocker, wich is just as good if not better than holy para. casting anti para or taking a drug dont do anything coz it can be done again
melee is laggy
it has stupid range
the tiger and bear should be fucking extinct as this nuclear was shit happened, but their paws and claws are still owning
and ffs this is supposed to the the fucking future why the fuck does a a person with a knife own sum1 with a fucking plasma cannon for fuck sake
Andronicus
04-08-04, 11:39
The main problem i see is the melee shocker (course i would like it if all shockers / para were removed entirely) particularly in combination with melee makes the melee overpowered. As someone else mentioned - playing melee pvp compared to other alts is just way to easy. I have a Pistol Pe and used to be HC tank - when dueling it was much harder with these two to defeat someone than it is with my MC Tank.
So yeah - coming from someone who has a capped melee tank - please nerf them.
DemonX you know, we were fighting each other many times before the 'boost' patch. I saw you duelling other people with sirrox.
If u really think melee is overpowered tell me this, before the patch what chances you got against (good) hc tanks? 10%?
It is a measure of class power - before the patch HC tanks were 2xstronger in comparision to melee. Now they are equal. You have around 50% chances of winning when duelling with some equally skilled player on a neutral groud (duelling arena, to eliminate terrain advantages).
Its like i always said - go duel some good HC tank and see how much "overpowered" they are.
The only thing which is blatantly overpowered in melee is a shocker. And it should be removed from the game ASAP or nerfed to oblivion. It was pretty much overpowered before the patch (thunderstorm that is), well powerful enough to let you win the fight easily. Now they are negating the meaning of a fight itself.
Come to think of it, its the same as with stealthing PEs. People just stopped to adapting and start to whine instead. I never ever had any problems (with my 'nerfed' pre-boost melee tank) with any stealthing PEs i dont hava a problem with melee either (note: i play spies now). If someone managed to beat me in a fight it was because he was better, not overpowered...
az
DemonX you know, we were fighting each other many times before the 'boost' patch. I saw you duelling other people with sirrox.
If u really think melee is overpowered tell me this, before the patch what chances you got against (good) hc tanks? 10%?
It is a measure of class power - before the patch HC tanks were 2xstronger in comparision to melee. Now they are equal. You have around 50% chances of winning when duelling with some equally skilled player on a neutral groud (duelling arena, to eliminate terrain advantages).
Its like i always said - go duel some good HC tank and see how much "overpowered" they are.
The only thing which is blatantly overpowered in melee is a shocker. And it should be removed from the game ASAP or nerfed to oblivion. It was pretty much overpowered before the patch (thunderstorm that is), well powerful enough to let you win the fight easily. Now they are negating the meaning of a fight itself.
Come to think of it, its the same as with stealthing PEs. People just stopped to adapting and start to whine instead. I never ever had any problems (with my 'nerfed' pre-boost melee tank) with any stealthing PEs i dont hava a problem with melee either (note: i play spies now). If someone managed to beat me in a fight it was because he was better, not overpowered...
az
melee was fine b4 it was boosted, there was just about 2 good melee tanks.
Before it was boosted I generally won 2 out of 3 deuls with an equally good HC tank and generally I lost because they got my legs and after that it was basically a foregone conclusion.
Before boost i had 97-98% wins against H-C tanks, and that was including
the "best" pluto had to offer. Yeah they really needed buffing. Me and fenix
was already before the buff discussing on the forums that maybe they should
look over M-C tanks before doing anything to them. The low amount of M-C
tanks was just due to the fact that people were generally not paying
attention to the class, everyone who tried it noticed very fast how good it
was. Regardless of claws doing poisons and whatnot Im still pretty convinced
that they are overpowered.
Clownst0pper
04-08-04, 15:56
Before boost i had 97-98% wins against H-C tanks, and that was including
the "best" pluto had to offer. Yeah they really needed buffing. Me and fenix
was already before the buff discussing on the forums that maybe they should
look over M-C tanks before doing anything to them. The low amount of M-C
tanks was just due to the fact that people were generally not paying
attention to the class, everyone who tried it noticed very fast how good it
was. Regardless of claws doing poisons and whatnot Im still pretty convinced
that they are overpowered.
It is only the Poison based melee weapons, as no one specs against it.
Thats like saying fire apoc needs nerfing because I dont spec fire resist.
POISON IS A RESIST WHICH IS NEEDED.
Poison beam
Melee POB
Devourer
Holy Pest
3 new spells/rares in common use, yet people still dont realise.
It is only the Poison based melee weapons, as no one specs against it.
Thats like saying fire apoc needs nerfing because I dont spec fire resist.
POISON IS A RESIST WHICH IS NEEDED.
Poison beam
Melee POB
Devourer
Holy Pest
3 new spells/rares in common use, yet people still dont realise.
Ok, If I say it enough maybe someone will hear it. IM TALKING ABOUT PRE-
PATCH. As in BEFORE paws was doing poison damage, I was using DG.
Clownst0pper
04-08-04, 16:03
Ok, If I say it enough maybe someone will hear it. IM TALKING ABOUT PRE-
PATCH. As in BEFORE paws was doing poison damage, I was using DG.
Pre Patch DG to a PPU holy buffed player did nothing (around 4-10 dmg per hit on a capped resist tank)
Pre Patch DG to a self buffed player did "ok" dmg (around 22-27 dmg per hit on a tank with capped resists)
Post Patch DG does "ok" dmg to holy buffed players (around 40-50 dmg per hit on a tank with capped resists)
Post Patch DG does "Good" dmg to self buffed players (around 50-80 dmg per hit)*
*It is still unconsistant
Before it was boosted I generally won 2 out of 3 deuls with an equally good HC tank and generally I lost because they got my legs and after that it was basically a foregone conclusion.
Oh well, my mistake. Nevermind then, we obviously havent fought the same HC tanks. Before the boost i was loosing 9 out of 10 duels with a good tank and not because they were better than me but because they knew how to fight a melee... Now its about 50%-50% chance to me...
Just 5 mins ago i managed to kill a lvl /47 melee tank on my lvl 50 spy, he was using tai chi sword and me blacksun (dmg at 110%). He didnt get me to 1/3 health even. So... blacksun overpowered?
But anyways, its kinda pointless of trying to convince anyone in such threads. I dont have any problems with melees, i can kill them without much effort. Same as with stealthing PEs and many many other things... ah, nevermind, i'll shut up now
Rade, your a good player, and can probably play every class well.
Unlike yourself however, and otherskilled players, those who have jumped onto the melee bandwagon stick out so badly.
They just cant play melee.
Basing balancing on your ability to play a class isnt a good thing, as to most people, melee tanks suck.
The only good melee players on saturn are me, and Braini.
Well granted I don't use my melee tank often so you probably haven't seen him, but ouch! :-P
Clownst0pper
04-08-04, 16:09
But anyways, its kinda pointless of trying to convince anyone in such threads. I dont have any problems with melees, i can kill them without much effort. Same as with stealthing PEs and many many other things... ah, nevermind, i'll shut up now
Couldnt agree more, only yesterday did I kill braini on Kaolin (my combat spy) with a healing light, and came off with full HP (this was close quarters)
U just know how to fight them (spirit ammo helps ;) )
Shadow Dancer
04-08-04, 17:43
the tiger and bear should be fucking extinct as this nuclear was shit happened, but their paws and claws are still owning
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
<3
It was ok maybe imo already too good. Just go back three months and look at
what fenix and me was doing, it wasnt rare to take on 3-5 people then in
crowded places or where there were lots of cover. I fought scores of duels
and virtually never lost, people I had a hard time defeating with Rade just
keeled over when my melee tank got close to em. I remember me and Sirox in
OP wars busting through people before they could react, once we charged up
through the underground into a camping force and we had 2 APUs dead
before they had even started shooting us. Then I went away for three
months - First day I reactivated my chars I went into PP1 to fight some with
my PE and there were 4 ppl in there, I remember tostino being one of them.
After getting suitably pushed out over and over I logged my melee tank and
chopped them up. I talked to the guys afterwards and the comment that
stuck in my mind was "well, theres nothing we can do against you". Its like
fighting against ppus, just boring, I was moving to fast and healing decently
enough for them to be able to do any real damage to me in such cramped
quarters whereas I would kill them in notime, and thats with me not even
remembering where I have most of the buttons.
Its bullshit, melee was imo too good before the boost, now its just retarded.
I didn't have much trouble with melee tanks before the boost. I find it a little hard to believe that some people would consider it pointless to fight them before the boost. :p
Until people do spec poison resist, POB is always going to fuck you over, as it stands, it really doesnt do alot to me on my tank.
I think it's lame people have to spec poison(*if* it even helps) against ONE class. Every class should have GOOD effective and viable poison weaponry IMO.
Like I said earlier (and is worth repeating with a bit mor eof an explanation this time). Boost range, lower damage. The fact that a person wins or loses against a melee tank is irrelevant in a specific instance. You have to look at the bigger picture and the factors involved in every fight. Thats the thing about melee. My PE is one fast mother, and melee tanks who arent as fast as me are pretty much gonna die in open areas. But for example if I see a melee tank in Pepper Park 1, I run like hell away, because close quarters fighting is suicide. I get owned every time. Maybe thats the way its supposed to be, but I think for balance issues we are better off with the suggested change.
POISON IS A RESIST WHICH IS NEEDED.
Your argument seems quite flawed to me, in that I've already said that I have specced for poison and that I was wearing both Viper king and por belt.
I'm prepared to believe there is some specific problem with my setup, but so far no one has pointed one out to me. Also perhaps I should have been more specific with the original post and specified paw of bear...I've never had any problems against Devils Grace or any of the other melee rares (but that said I've not really ever seen anyone use them, as the PoB is so good).
As for giving me neg symp for my poll options...slag :p
They weren't intended for any scientific purpose, more as a promoter of discussion and just to get a vague feel for sentiment on the forums. I don't put much faith in ANY poll on these forums, regardless of how well worded, as the forum users tend to be the vocal (moaning) minority. Myself included :D
Viper Venom
04-08-04, 18:52
as far as i can remember, and yes its been a while since i did my sums, but 200 capped amour reduces pvp to 8% (maby 8.5, u know only rough values)
100 reduces poison it to 66% not including ur pvp amour reducitg everything by 66%
PoB does about 40-50 poison, better to use al PE's str in force becasue force protect also helps with pircing. thats why ppl pistol pe and cap there force and transport.
so erm lets see. if u realy capped force and percing and 100 poison u should have taken...
130 piercing = 10.4 damage per strike
111 force = 8.88 damage per strike
44 poison = 6.44 damage per strike
25.72 per hit
128.6 after 5 hits. so unles u have 128 or less hp, then how the hell did u die
(if any of the values have changed, i would love to know cos like i aint played in a while)
unles
A. ur piercing wasnt capped at 200, u get it from amour and force. and as ur heavy so i doubt u have masive force resitance in str so ur losing piercing increasing damage u take,
B.kk nerfed the values
i think a decent sheild will give u even better protection. so er... how did u die in like 5 hits
soz about the typing i aint german and english is my first language, i am jus dislexic. i think u can get teh jist of it
(those values were taken of my meele tank with a 120 damage 178% PoB)
if the values have changed since i was plaiyng last do tell, dont jus flame me like a (censored)
Overpowered easily but im making one so who cares :p
enigma_b17
04-08-04, 19:01
biased poll, no vote necessary
SamuraiPizzaCat
04-08-04, 19:03
u must really sux chumble :p
(thats my hc pe before he was capped vs a melee tanker)
u must really sux chumble :p
(thats my hc pe before he was capped vs a melee tanker)Giving an example of a kill without more detail is worthless. There are a lot more factors involved. You have to take a look at the bigger picture. Not, "I killed some random melee user so thus, melee is not overpowered in any way."
u must really sux chumble :p
(thats my hc pe before he was capped vs a melee tanker)
I was fighting probably the best melee tank on pluto. Given my inexperience with PE combat (off my trike) I wasn't really expecting to win.
It's not how often he was hitting me that was the problem so much as the insane amounts of damage each time. I'm gonna LoM my tank to melee just so I can test this some more :D
SamuraiPizzaCat
04-08-04, 19:20
ok fine
me and shinto were out at sycon huntin firemobs then this guy runs up to us and we kill him
he says i cant kill him alone so we wait for him there
shinto stands aside
i fight him, healing, running, shooting his legs
you gotta use whatever advantage ur weaponclass has over the melee user
and yes melee is overpowered in most situations
im jus sayin that a HC PE can take down a melee tank (and not die in 5 hits O.o)
Shadow Dancer
04-08-04, 20:17
It is only the Poison based melee weapons, as no one specs against it.
Thats like saying fire apoc needs nerfing because I dont spec fire resist.
POISON IS A RESIST WHICH IS NEEDED.
Poison beam
Melee POB
Devourer
Holy Pest
3 new spells/rares in common use, yet people still dont realise.
BS man, lol.
The only damaging one in that group is PoB. With ZERO poison resist, poison beam is a damn joke. Then there's the whole zoning "feature" where you can zone with 500 stacks and not recieve damage. Not to mention a ppu's mere AURA(poison sanct) can dispel all the poison stacks you have. There are also drugs, and the damage taking 21 damn seconds to get through. Poison beam is a JOKE!
Holy Pest? You are honestly going to mention holy pest as an example? Are you saying that with a straight face? It's been MONTHS since I have seen someone use holy pestilence. When is it good for? Let me guess, when you zone up from the UG and get hit with it right? :rolleyes: Holy pest is a shitty barrel with shitty damage and shitty range. Even with 0 resist, you can only die from it if your IQ matches your poison resist.
Devourer is the only one that hurts if you don't spec poison, but it doesn't hurt enough. It doesn't hurt alot. 99% of HC tanks I see use CS. CS is so much better IMO. POB is the only "hardcore" poison weapon IMO. It actually does good damage(unlike pestilence or poison crapbeam) and it doesn't slow you down(like devourer).
IMO pob is the only "real" example you can use. I still can't believe you mentioned holy pestilence. o_O
I'm not saying POB is overpowered, I don't know yet. I care more about the lame ass freezer. I was just pointing out that I think you're stretching it when you bring examples of other poison weapons.
It is overpowered when the range issue doesn't crop up (e.g. Pepper) and underpowered when the issue does (e.g. out in wastelands). Nerf the damage on the extreme ones like PoB yes, but only after the range issue is fixed properly.
to back up the pizza cat nib there, i watched him own that melee tank.
i stood aside and didnt lift a finger till the melee dude had been downed(for the 3rd time i might add :p )
Clothing_Option
04-08-04, 23:23
Its not overpowered
you pple are nutz
Its not overpowered
you pple are nutz
Oh i guess youre right, ok i think were all done here, LETS PACK UP AND CLOSE THE THREAD, ILL GO GET MY COAT.
Clownst0pper
05-08-04, 01:56
BS man, lol.
The only damaging one in that group is PoB. With ZERO poison resist, poison beam is a damn joke. Then there's the whole zoning "feature" where you can zone with 500 stacks and not recieve damage. Not to mention a ppu's mere AURA(poison sanct) can dispel all the poison stacks you have. There are also drugs, and the damage taking 21 damn seconds to get through. Poison beam is a JOKE!
Holy Pest? You are honestly going to mention holy pest as an example? Are you saying that with a straight face? It's been MONTHS since I have seen someone use holy pestilence. When is it good for? Let me guess, when you zone up from the UG and get hit with it right? :rolleyes: Holy pest is a shitty barrel with shitty damage and shitty range. Even with 0 resist, you can only die from it if your IQ matches your poison resist.
Devourer is the only one that hurts if you don't spec poison, but it doesn't hurt enough. It doesn't hurt alot. 99% of HC tanks I see use CS. CS is so much better IMO. POB is the only "hardcore" poison weapon IMO. It actually does good damage(unlike pestilence or poison crapbeam) and it doesn't slow you down(like devourer).
IMO pob is the only "real" example you can use. I still can't believe you mentioned holy pestilence. o_O
I'm not saying POB is overpowered, I don't know yet. I care more about the lame ass freezer. I was just pointing out that I think you're stretching it when you bring examples of other poison weapons.
Shadow, I sense you have never had a combat spy.
My rifle spy has 370 body health, 114 fire resist, 114 energy resist, capped resist force, and 157 Xray resist, zero poison
4 poison stacks from a poison beam he dies (if not healing)
2 stacks from holy pestilence he dies (if not healing)
I can take alot from a devourer, but only because its been nerfed to hell.
And POB? fucking hammers, but I know thats because I dont have poison resist.
U say poison beams do shit? Try it without poison resist at all, not nice when you cant zone or heal (in stealth)
Shadow Dancer
05-08-04, 03:19
Read my post again Clown. I already said I have(and always will have, till more than ONE class has a decent poison weapon) zero poison resist. I do not need to be a combat spy to know what poison does against someone with 0 resist.
Why are you saying "if not healing"? That's rediculous. That's like me saying I can't survive more than 2 seconds against a CS tank if I'm not moving. Combine healing with drugs, and suddenly poison beam isn't so uber. Even without healing and drugs, it's still crap. Not to mention the whole zoning thing. If poison beam didn't take 55 fucking years to do it's damage, the zoning thing wouldn't be a problem.
As for pestilence? Yea ok. You die to pestilence, that problem is you and not the barrel. I don't even know how someone can get hit by pestilence. A green swirly, shitty range, and small aoe. Unless of course you get hit by synching in from the UG.
My point still stands.
I remember my droner fighting an apu in direct 1on1. I launched raptor (2 poison beam stacks ) attacked him (5 stacks) killed him (8 stacks). I casted heal, heal sanctum, ran like a chicken and outhealed the poison beams. And my droner has zero poison resist and zero armor.
Shadow Dancer
05-08-04, 03:28
I think that apu should be banned for using poison in a 1v1. :p
errr, SD.. u said the bad word starting with "b" and ending with "anned". Im kinda allergic to that atm.. .p
nwayz, I heard later the apu had only his poison beam with him.
Shadow, I sense you have never had a combat spy.
My rifle spy has 370 body health, 114 fire resist, 114 energy resist, capped resist force, and 157 Xray resist, zero poison
4 poison stacks from a poison beam he dies (if not healing)
2 stacks from holy pestilence he dies (if not healing)
I can take alot from a devourer, but only because its been nerfed to hell.
And POB? fucking hammers, but I know thats because I dont have poison resist.
U say poison beams do shit? Try it without poison resist at all, not nice when you cant zone or heal (in stealth)
My rifle spy got a tad more health and about the same resists. And some poison. And poison damage is a damn joke. I never died to it yet. Poison beam? Stealth, then pop a drug. Holy pest? Damn, just avoid it. If you cant, stealth, then pop a drug. Devourer? Fuck it, tanks using it are so damn easy to kill.
And POB? Hurts like hell, yeah. But you know what? I couldnt care less. Run away, stealth, shoot, repeat. Dead POB tank.
Damn, did i say flip points for poison resists? Ignore me! :p
Any melee tank that dies to a spy is shite, any spy that dies to a melee tank is shite aswell, presuming no ppus are about as they just throw off the balance completely.
Any melee tank that dies to a spy is shite, any spy that dies to a melee tank is shite aswell, presuming no ppus are about as they just throw off the balance completely.
Oh man.
Every melee tank that dies to a spy in PP1 is shite. And every spy that dies to a melee tank in say J_01 is shite. That says it better.
No just in general Kid as any spy that gets caught in close range with a melee tank should stealth and get some range or just get out of a lose lose situation, any melee tank that starts getting sniped should just keep running for cover and healing there or keep moving and changing direction at random intervals to throw off sniper aim.
simple : compare it to a heavy tank...
it doesn't need to aim.
it doesn't have amo.
it doesn't reload.
it does heal very well and runcast.
it does high damage.
it is easy to cap the melee weapons.
it can para very well and easlily.
it runs VERY fast.
it has a batqueen and melee eye.
it has not huge drawback on the melee PA.
btw, i've build up two melees ... I prefered it before the patch. i want a nerf.
Shadow Dancer
05-08-04, 05:42
simple : compare it to a heavy tank...
it doesn't need to aim.
it doesn't have amo.
it doesn't reload.
it does heal very well and runcast.
it does high damage.
it is easy to cap the melee weapons.
it can para very well and easlily.
it runs VERY fast.
it has a batqueen and melee eye.
it has not huge drawback on the melee PA.
btw, i've build up two melees ... I prefered it before the patch. i want a nerf.
This is one of those rare cases where I say "boost other classes" instead of nerfing this one. Perhaps, MAYBE MAYBE(and I stress maybe) pob needs a tweak in damage. I'm still unsure about it. The only thing about melee I think needs a flat out sledgehammer, is the freezer.
Make electroshockers into a pure energy damage weapons and either make pob into a stacking damage poison weapon or change the current poison to another damage type.
Yeah, i think stacks would be better, not sure if they would help to anyone but maybe they could help realised how PoB dmg works because as for now no one is completely sure about it.
At the other hand, PoB is the only instant dmg weapon in this game which is wrong and illogical as poison *should* works in stacks.
Well there are supposedly direct poison attacks provided by the chaos cave mobs, but you know what? Shelter and fire belt do protect you from their attacks as well... So basically, i think there is something bugged with this 'direct poison' dmg. Not sure what exactly though.
But anyways, give PoB dot damage and maybe the whiners will shut up for awhile...
And REMOVE SHOCKERS !!!!!!! dammit. seriously this thing unbalances melee so much that it is pointless even to try to fight with em. I have no problems with a melees, but if they start to shock its an insta-win, only thing i can do is to stealth and run away...
and like i said before, PoB seem to have a better range or something like that, because it hits at least twice as often in a combat than DG. Maybe some melees could test this?
[edit]
Originally Posted by JackScratch
ganking still means you are an asshole in real life (yeah, its true, anyone who argues against this is a 12 year old asshole)
interesting sig, though the only thing it obviously proves is that an authour of such sentence is an idiot :rolleyes:
Clothing_Option
05-08-04, 14:58
Oh i guess youre right, ok i think were all done here, LETS PACK UP AND CLOSE THE THREAD, ILL GO GET MY COAT.
Dont let the door hit you in the ass jack.
BTW Nerf this ' makes very rude hand gesture ' you bunch of nerf ************s
Nerf the hybrid if anything.
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