View Full Version : Spirit mod vs the private eye
what can i say? PE with no shelter vs HL = dead PE, methinks it is just ever so slightly mfcukered that a rifle user can shoot me once to take off 40-50hp and drop my shelter, pull out a HL and kill me in 3 hits, with me having no chance to survive other than running like a girl....^^
edit: stupid typos, someone swapped my keys round...honest...
edit again: changed the "rifle PE" to "rifle user" to stop the pedantic fools who have nothing better to do than argue, from picking up on that point and turning this thread into a spies vs PEs
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 03:07
PEs flat out should not have access to guns > TL 110
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:08
Well I got a spirit mod today on my rifle spy.
And yes, its extremely deadly, but ive always felt all classes should be able to confidently kill a PPU without the insane trouble it is now.
(ive yet to mod it, looking for an uber SH) :)
what can i say? PE with no shelter vs HL = dead PE, methinks it is just ever so slightly mfcukered that a rifle using PE can shoot me once to take off 40-50hp and drop my shelter, pull out a HL and kill me in 3 hits, with me having no chance to survive other than running like a girl....^^
edit: stupid typos, someone swapped my keys round...honest...
so would it be ok if a spy did that ??? :rolleyes:
Don't bash a fucking class u recognised the problem, the spirt mod takeing off shelta instatly....so why not whine about that then Pe's???
:eek:
OMG what an idea, oh no lets bash PE's cos they are so
uber :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
sheesh
Well I got a spirit mod today on my rifle spy.
And yes, its extremely deadly, but ive always felt all classes should be able to confidently kill a PPU without the insane trouble it is now.
NO!!
No one solo whould be able to kill a PPU.
PERIOD.
Seriously.
If u are going to Gimp your self so u CAN'T attack and get rid of the threat that way then no one should be able to solo you, how ever 2 vs PPU is possible and as it should be but no ONE char should be able to kill a PPU one vs one.
Or if they can u should introduce some thing so they can kill you as that is only fair, or do u just like the easy kill option :rolleyes:
QuantumDelta
02-08-04, 03:10
There are better ways around the problem.
And yes, its extremely deadly, but ive always felt all classes should be able to confidently kill a PPU without the insane trouble it is now.
please not i have no problem with it's use against ppus, who at least have some chance of healing and resheltering before being mutilated, however, given that a PE has almost no chance of resheltering in combat, i do believe that by implementing the spirit mod, KK have inadvertently screwed the PE over royally
edit:
Don't bash a fucking class u recognised the problem, the spirt mod takeing off shelta instatly....so why not whine about that then Pe's???
:eek:
ok yes i would have the same problem with a spy doing it, however, i can drop a spy in 3-4 hits myself, unless they have used a shelter, so it wouldnt be quite so bad
...btw, you might wanna cut down on the pro plus, it seems to be having an adverse effect on your aggression levels :angel:
i agree, clowns sigs rock!
anyhow, off topic but hell yeah, that Spirit mod TOTALLY screws over PE's, its not something you can counter either. I was gunna make a post about it myself a while back, but I'm anti nerf :p
Well I got a spirit mod today on my rifle spy.
And yes, its extremely deadly, but ive always felt all classes should be able to confidently kill a PPU without the insane trouble it is now.
(ive yet to mod it, looking for an uber SH) :)
the entire point off a ppu is to stay alive and buff others, if 1 person can kill a ppu easily, then whats the point in having one, i say they should be hard to kill, and have great buffs on themselfs but not as good when cast on others.
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 03:12
so would it be ok if a spy did that ??? :rolleyes:
Don't bash a fucking class u recognised the problem, the spirt mod takeing off shelta instatly....so why not whine about that then Pe's???
:eek:
OMG what an idea, oh no lets bash PE's cos they are so
uber :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
sheesh
No, quite a difference between a spy using a spirit mod and a PE using one.. when a spy uses one to de-shelter a PE, the spy is still at a disadvantage, using the crappy battle armor.. unless he is drugged to hell and using a str setup.
the entire point off a ppu is to stay alive and buff others, if 1 person can kill a ppu easily, then whats the point in having one, i say they should be hard to kill, and have great buffs on themselfs but not as good when cast on others.
you mean like it is now? foriegn cast buffs have a malus, which must be the opposite to bonus i guess O_o
No, quite a difference between a spy using a spirit mod and a PE using one.. when a spy uses one to de-shelter a PE, the spy is still at a disadvantage, using the crappy battle armor.. unless he is drugged to hell and using a str setup.
wtf...my spy uses inq 3.....
ill post his con setup ffs
Resists:
Armor PvM PvP
Piercing 199 95% - 95% 7% - 6%
Force 247 95% - 95% 6% - 5%
Fire 161 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Energy 157 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Xray 160 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Poison 20 13% 29%
thats gimped?
you mean like it is now? foriegn cast buffs have a malus, which must be the opposite to bonus i guess O_o
Forigen cast shelta + def = 50% reduction
Shadow Dancer
02-08-04, 03:16
You know what, there is a problem here. I think spirit mod is fine vs ppus, but it's too much against PEs. I know this without even seeing it, because i know how long it takes a PE to shelter. I have no idea how KK can make it so that it's not so lethal against PEs but still the same against ppus.
Bleh. :(
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 03:16
wtf...my spy uses inq 3.....
ill post his con setup ffs
Resists:
Armor PvM PvP
Piercing 199 95% - 95% 7% - 6%
Force 247 95% - 95% 6% - 5%
Fire 161 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Energy 157 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Xray 160 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Poison 20 13% 29%
thats gimped?
Forigen cast shelta + def = 50% reduction
No, quite a difference between a spy using a spirit mod and a PE using one.. when a spy uses one to de-shelter a PE, the spy is still at a disadvantage, using the crappy battle armor.. unless he is drugged to hell and using a str setup.
PE dosnt have to drug to hell for decent armor, spys do. That's my point.
QuantumDelta
02-08-04, 03:17
Nice Ryuben, 2 or 3 drugs?
--
And, He's right.
There is no real difference between a Spy doing this and a PE doing this.
Spies don't have to drug to have decent dex.
PEs do.
WTF is up with that eh?
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:17
I spent 25 minutes attempting to kill a BD PPU on my rifle spy at el farid yesterday - It actually got me really mad, I parashocked him, Tl 3 healed him, couldnt EVER get a noob shelter on him.
SH rof is stupidly slow so cant be effective (without spirit mod)
and healing light does about 2 dmg.
It was painfull to watch. And highly stressful.
I didnt mean every class should be able to kill a PPU, but every class should have an idividual combat against removing shelter.
A good PPU wont ever die to a single APU anti buffing him, nor will they with a spirit mod.
Shadow Dancer
02-08-04, 03:17
Nice Ryuben, 2 or 3 drugs?
--
And, He's right.
There is no real difference between a Spy doing this and a PE doing this.
Yes there is. A PE doing it has black PA.
Black PA>u
You know what, there is a problem here. I think spirit mod is fine vs ppus, but it's too much against PEs. I know this without even seeing it, because i know how long it takes a PE to shelter. I have no idea how KK can make it so that it's not so lethal against PEs but still the same against ppus.
Bleh. :(
thank you, exactly the point i was trying to make
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 03:19
This thread is moving fast =D
but uhm.. cmon.. lets stop talking about nerfing spirit mod.. seriously.. i.. i dont want to lose my baby =(
PE dosnt have to drug to hell for decent armor, spys do. That's my point.
So because a spy has to work at it it means its less effective???
:rolleyes:
that mean u don't put armour on ur chars to make them better??
or u mean u don't like drugs so no one else does it so its not pleausable?
a Spy is not 100% for PvP it takes a bit of work, that means hes not a valid PvP'er ?? you next going to tell me to get back to plaza 1 and cst/repair/poke/reseach for you??!!!
This thread is moving fast =D
but uhm.. cmon.. lets stop talking about nerfing spirit mod.. seriously.. i.. i dont want to lose my baby =(
i needs nerfing per-say i.e. 3 second count down after hit before shelta goes...that would balance things...
only dumb PPUs die to a solo runner, be it APU, Tank, Spy or PE.
Shadow Dancer
02-08-04, 03:21
Make the spirit mod affect only "powerful" shelter spells. In other words, blessed/holy.
Sounds good to me. :p
only dumb PPUs die to a solo runner, be it APU, Tank, Spy or PE.
Right on
<3
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:22
So because a spy has to work at it it means its less effective???
:rolleyes:
that mean u don't put armour on ur chars to make them better??
or u mean u don't like drugs so no one else does it so its not pleausable?
a Spy is not 100% for PvP it takes a bit of work, that means hes not a valid PvP'er ?? you next going to tell me to get back to plaza 1 and cst/repair/poke/reseach for you??!!!
Its quite strange really, a spys level dictates the original 111dex+ rifles were for them, but there defence sucks, which always makes you wonder if KK wanted it always possible for them to be useable by PE's
All the same, Ive got my spy to a point now where Fire Apoc does zero dmg when im healing, and he can take 10 Holy Lightings, and about 25 with a holy heal on :p
Its worth the 2 drugs :D
can all the people who are talking about how good ppus shouldnt die to a spirit mod and how it affects ppus please read the thread?
I spent 25 minutes attempting to kill a BD PPU on my rifle spy at el farid yesterday - It actually got me really mad, I parashocked him, Tl 3 healed him, couldnt EVER get a noob shelter on him.
SH rof is stupidly slow so cant be effective (without spirit mod)
and healing light does about 2 dmg.
It was painfull to watch. And highly stressful.
I didnt mean every class should be able to kill a PPU, but every class should have an idividual combat against removing shelter.
A good PPU wont ever die to a single APU anti buffing him, nor will they with a spirit mod.
Fire SH, change quickly to 2nd weapon, fire 2nd weapon, if PPU goes to buff change back to SH fire again, shouldnt have to wait for the ROF, keep that up until PPU is dead.
PE = fire SH @ PE, shoot PE with HL, PE = dead, unless its a really crap spy that cant aim :lol: :lol: err I mean PE, PE, not spy, spies are really powerful *coff coff*
only dumb PPUs die to a solo runner, be it APU, Tank, Spy or PE.
true and thats how it should be imo
it should take 2+ people to kill a PPU as he has no way to effectivly remove u from the fight (u have the posiblity of killing another runner all a PPU can do is run away/get mobs/ask for help.....)
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:24
Fire SH, change quickly to 2nd weapon, fire 2nd weapon, if PPU goes to buff change back to SH fire again, shouldnt have to wait for the ROF, keep that up until PPU is dead.
PE = fire SH @ PE, shoot PE with HL, PE = dead, unless its a really crap spy that cant aim :lol: :lol: err I mean PE, PE, not spy, spies are really powerful *coff coff*
Whatcha think I was doing? LOL :lol:
I know all the tricks m8, his sanctum alone out healed my healing light, after he took a hit from SH, which admitadly did alot of dmg, however, some jerky dancing on the spot and hes fatter on health than Oprah
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 03:25
So because a spy has to work at it it means its less effective???
:rolleyes:
that mean u don't put armour on ur chars to make them better??
or u mean u don't like drugs so no one else does it so its not pleausable?
a Spy is not 100% for PvP it takes a bit of work, that means hes not a valid PvP'er ?? you next going to tell me to get back to plaza 1 and cst/repair/poke/reseach for you??!!!
i needs nerfing per-say i.e. 3 second count down after hit before shelta goes...that would balance things...
Geeeezzee dude, relax Lol, Yes, a spy can have great resists and such if you drug like a madman (which of course can be effective) but the point is.. ok, think about it this way, to get the 65 str to wear inq 3, you would need essentially +25 to str, a PE, with +25 to str would nearly be able to dur4 (probably could with the right imp setup, but dur 3 easy)
So... assuming equal amounts of drugging and such, a spy will always be inferior to a PE as far as armor goes.
*sigh* nostalga, i remember about 2 years ago now, Spies had less dex than a PE, but KK dropped the spies Str and stuck it onto dex, thats why Spies have 100 Dex, I "think" they used to have 70 Dex, but i cant remember, so anyhow, that would mean weapons were originally meant for PE's, honest :angel:
/edit @ clown - dont forget, you got ur own sanctum running at the time, he "cant" cast shelter on his self cause yours catches him and he cant over ride it ;)
So... assuming equal amounts of drugging and such, a spy will always be inferior to a PE as far as armor goes.
you actually worked that out ??
Because don't forget a spy can have +157 energy and +160 Xray as PA = shit loads
Check that set up against a PE's and see what the difference in Con is...the main difference between a PE and a spy (druged) = % on his/her shelta.....
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:27
*sigh* nostalga, i remember about 2 years ago now, Spies had less dex than a PE, but KK dropped the spies Str and stuck it onto dex, thats why Spies have 100 Dex, I "think" they used to have 70 Dex, but i cant remember, so anyhow, that would mean weapons were originally meant for PE's, honest :angel:
Personally I dont see a problem whatso ever with a PE using the top end weapons, as 99% of the time they are serious gimped defencivly.
Now stealth is gone, well there easy pickings.
How cute! :D geddim!
Personally I dont see a problem whatso ever with a PE using the top end weapons, as 99% of the time they are serious gimped defencivly.
Now stealth is gone, well there easy pickings.
How cute! :D
omg, pink <3 <3 <3
anyhow hehehe, umm, forgot oh, nm, I'm low tech, stealth never really effected me :p did use it, but nah, it sucked to actually have it :lol: 93 Dex is all I need baby <3
Whatcha think I was doing? LOL :lol:
I know all the tricks m8, his sanctum alone out healed my healing light, after he took a hit from SH, which admitadly did alot of dmg, however, some jerky dancing on the spot and hes fatter on health than Oprah
effective PPU killer set up on a rifle pe =
Heal sanc
Shelta sanc
Spirit modded SH
Healing light
Nuff said with that set up no PPU can stand and laugh off ur damage all he can do is run + use cover .....
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:30
effective PPU killer set up on a rifle pe =
Heal sanc
Shelta sanc
Spirit modded SH
Healing light
Nuff said with that set up no PPU can stand and laugh off ur damage all he can do is run + use cover .....
Yup No doubt.
Sadly today I didnt have my spirit mod at the time, nor a shelter sanctum :p
There in the pipe line.
But to me, there stupidly lame tactics to kill anyone. TL3healing? Thats just..low? :(
Yup No doubt.
Sadly today I didnt have my spirit mod at the time, nor a shelter sanctum :p
There in the pipe line.
But to me, there stupidly lame tactics to kill anyone. TL3healing? Thats just..low? :(
i never said it was a honourable tactic but i have seen it used in op fights......esp when PE's could stealth ( PE with stealth 2 + def sanc + shelta sanc in middel of the other side)
You requested a method to kill a PPU you didn't specify honourable, and to be fair its ment to be a fucking war who gives a shit if u are honourable to the other side, if they bitch after just reply back saying "so u bitching means u agree u got owned?" and they soon give up....
effective PPU killer set up on a rifle pe =
Heal sanc
Shelta sanc
Spirit modded SH
Healing light
Nuff said with that set up no PPU can stand and laugh off ur damage all he can do is run + use cover .....
Ok shelter sanc would work... but heal sanc won't block his own heal.
And good PPUs can get in a shelter between ticks of shelter sanc. I've seen it happen many times.
So no, you're wrong. Sorry.
Dribble Joy
02-08-04, 03:34
There are better ways around the problem.
What I have been saying since they brought the damn mod into the game.
It's the wrong solution to the 'problem' of PPUs.
Either do something like remove it, make it DB the target or affect blessed/holy (as SD said) only.
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:35
i never said it was a honourable tactic but i have seen it used in op fights......esp when PE's could stealth ( PE with stealth 2 + def sanc + shelta sanc in middel of the other side)
You requested a method to kill a PPU you didn't specify honourable, and to be fair its ment to be a fucking war who gives a shit if u are honourable to the other side, if they bitch after just reply back saying "so u bitching means u agree u got owned?" and they soon give up....
I know I know :( :p
I like to have some morals, although saying that, ill be the first to spam spirit ammo on Yo ass at point blank range! :eek:
@ the PE tactic, did that on my melee tank, PPU's love n00b flectors :D
jeeeeeez you guys are posting fast.
got to agree with some of the guys who said spirit SH is too strong vs TL25 Shelter.
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 03:36
What I have been saying since they brought the damn mod into the game.
It's the wrong solution to the 'problem' of PPUs.
Either do something like remove it, make it DB the target or affect blessed/holy (as SD said) only
I like both of those options.
Assuming the DB is better then PE DB :lol:
Ok shelter sanc would work... but heal sanc won't block his own heal.
And good PPUs can get in a shelter between ticks of shelter sanc. I've seen it happen many times.
So no, you're wrong. Sorry.
yeah :rolleyes: cos good PPU's never lag and between the ticks you would have to be mightly fucking luck to have a tick just as u get de-buffed so it doesn't affect you just because you saw one PPU get lucky doesn't mean ALL ppus are the same
and btw, Luck + lag + skill are 3 difference things .....
can all the people who are talking about how good ppus shouldnt die to a spirit mod and how it affects ppus please read the thread?
ok you've had your fun with the chatting about ppus (dunno where the fuck that came in) and about spies vs PEs (edited the 1st thread, so you can stfu about that one too)
the real point of this thread was to highlight the fact that if you are a PE, going up against someone with a spirit SH gives you about as much chance of surviving as jumping in front of a speeding train...
if anyone has ANY way of countering this, or has ideas of what can be done about it, they would be much appreciated...
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:37
and btw, Luck + lag + skill are 3 difference things .....
Id say thats one regular occurance on saturn :lol:
if anyone has ANY way of countering this, or has ideas of what can be done about it, they would be much appreciated...
You cant combat it, you just have to do some jerky on the spot circle motions while recasting shelter, and carry on.
Sucks, but there is NOTHING else
I like both of those options.
Assuming the DB is better then PE DB :lol:
Every other method to disable some thing in game
i.e. heal defelctor shetla
takes TIME to work the thing about Spirit mod is its instant so fucks people over mainly because of lag, i seen it many a time in a op war where some one gets Spirit SH'ed and they only know about it because they have 1/4 hp and are getting attacked by 3 people.........
a Good spy/ pe will antiu buff you at range with silencer so you have no idea and because of lag ...it means u can/ will be at 1/4 hp before u notice which in a game where lag is common (esp if u got 500k or less) then that is not an acceptable tactic
so it should take say 3 seconds to work....
btw off topic clown sig = Lost Prophets stealage?
NC is supposed to be a "team effort" so make the SH ROF when its Spirit Modded to 2/min, and you cant fire another weapon till them 30 seconds are up, therefore it wont be used against PE's 1vs1, it would only be used against a PPU when there are more than 1 person available to attack the PPU, problem solved, PE's can rest happy, unless two spies gang up on him, then its "OMG KOS!" kinda thing :(
yeah :rolleyes: cos good PPU's never lag and between the ticks you would have to be mightly fucking luck to have a tick just as u get de-buffed so it doesn't affect you just because you saw one PPU get lucky doesn't mean ALL ppus are the same
and btw, Luck + lag + skill are 3 difference things .....
Ok, let's think through this. First of all only a shitty PPU would be standing still so we can assume that the PE doesn't connect with all shots. The PPU gets hit with the spirit SH and his shelter falls which is replaced with a shelter sanc (which blows). Oh no, he's nub sheltered. Oh wait, he has holy heal. ... He can delay by dodging until the next tick and recast holy shelter. back to square one. :rolleyes:
It's not luck, it's skill. Good PPUs cannot be killed by ANY one class. Including spies, including PEs, including APUs.
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 03:41
NC is supposed to be a "team effort" so make the SH ROF when its Spirit Modded to 2/min, and you cant fire another weapon till them 30 seconds are up, therefore it wont be used against PE's 1vs1, it would only be used against a PPU when there are more than 1 person available to attack the PPU, problem solved, PE's can rest happy, unless two spies gang up on him, then its "OMG KOS!" kinda thing :(
It should take the same time to cast as HAB. Its even then, and reduces its movement capabilitys as a shotgun.
Im off to bed, Night Guys :)
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 03:42
NC is supposed to be a "team effort" so make the SH ROF when its Spirit Modded to 2/min, and you cant fire another weapon till them 30 seconds are up, therefore it wont be used against PE's 1vs1, it would only be used against a PPU when there are more than 1 person available to attack the PPU, problem solved, PE's can rest happy, unless two spies gang up on him, then its "OMG KOS!" kinda thing :(
Erm, 2/min is a little overkill.. how about leave it at the same RoF but make the ammo weigh like.. 1/2 pound per shot?
It should take the same time to cast as HAB. Its even then, and reduces its movement capabilitys as a shotgun.
Im off to bed, Night Guys :)
it should also have a large glowy colour too, but the fact remains that once its fired you shouldnt be able to fire another gun again for period of time, like 5-10 seconds, no one in their right mind would 1vs1 spirit a PE if they cant shoot back before a PE's recast shelter and can start pummeling away
Erm, 2/min is a little overkill.. how about leave it at the same RoF but make the ammo weigh like.. 1/2 pound per shot?
honestly? if they hit with the first, unless they cant aim for shit they dont need the second shot, the 1st drops your shelter, out pops the RoG or HL, and your screwed...
Ok, let's think through this. First of all only a shitty PPU would be standing still so we can assume that the PE doesn't connect with all shots.
pe wpuld be at cliping range not stood 10 foot away so why would the PPU be moveing about?
The PPU gets hit with the spirit SH and his shelter and gets hit with HL when he notices he replaces shelta + heals up
cast shelta sanc ( offc uses cover so ppu doesn't see sanc), and moves closer.
then de when in range of shelta sanc (ppu is moveing now) and shoots SH again PPU tries to cast Shelta whilse he is doing so cast heal...
Oh no, he's nub sheltered.
HL + nub shelta + nub heal.....
You forget any "good" ppu can be brought down by lag or luck on the opisition
you would time it so he attacks JUST as the HH is wearing off so the PPU doesn't think to cast that first.
and once again, especially for ryuben
can all the people who are talking about how good ppus shouldnt die to a spirit mod and how it affects ppus please read the thread?
Spy / pe wpuld be at cliping range not stood 10 foot away so why would the PPU be moveing about?
HL + nub shelta + nub heal.....
OMG wtf hax.. are you saying your pe/spy can nub shelter/nub heal at clipping range? omg wtf hax...
OMG wtf hax.. are you saying your pe/spy can nub shelter/nub heal at clipping range? omg wtf hax...
if ur going to flame read all the post......
kthxbye
But in referance to the thread
Spirit ammo should have a 3 second tick off before it takes shelta off, like Drone anti heal and the way u have to wait for HAB (and rest of apu spells) to work.
btw its almost 3 am i been out drinking since 3 pm so im off to bed night all
It's not flaming ryuben, it's called surprise. You can't be at clipping range and snipe with a SH then nub shelter/nub heal. You can't be in shelter/heal range and assume you'll always hit a moving target. Catch-22. Sorry.
Anyway, I think spirit mod should go back to removing deflector. Most problems are solved. Even if you did use a SH point-blank into a PE and he lost his shelter, what're you going to do, pull a pain easer or a terminator? Good PEs cap force/pierce anyway...
Anyway, I think spirit mod should go back to removing deflector. Most problems are solved. Even if you did use a SH point-blank into a PE and he lost his shelter, what're you going to do, pull a pain easer or a terminator? Good PEs cap force/pierce anyway...
thats apart from the fact that it IS possible for a PE to re-deflector in combat
Anyway, I think spirit mod should go back to removing deflector. Most problems are solved. Even if you did use a SH point-blank into a PE and he lost his shelter, what're you going to do, pull a pain easer or a terminator? Good PEs cap force/pierce anyway...
you keep shooting with SH which does a hella lot of dmg with no deflector on.
you keep shooting with SH which does a hella lot of dmg with no deflector on.
SH without SM doesnt have the ROF for constant fighting with it <3
you keep shooting with SH which does a hella lot of dmg with no deflector on.
Yeah but there's a few reasons why that won't happen.
1, SH is hard to aim pvp but not impossible.
2, if you miss (or hit) there's between a 2 and 3 second delay before your next shot.
3, you run slow.
4, if you hold the fire button down too long, you zoom which reduces your sensitivity to about 0.5.
I know, I used to duel with SH. Another point, if you fire with the spirit ammo you'll do less. If you switch ammo mid-fight you're either insanely good or insanely stupid.
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 04:14
Yeah but there's a few reasons why that won't happen.
1, SH is hard to aim pvp but not impossible.
2, if you miss (or hit) there's between a 2 and 3 second delay before your next shot.
3, you run slow.
4, if you hold the fire button down too long, you zoom which reduces your sensitivity to about 0.5.
I know, I used to duel with SH. Another point, if you fire with the spirit ammo you'll do less. If you switch ammo mid-fight you're either insanely good or insanely stupid.
ding ding ding - wrong. spirit ammo inherantly does more damage then any of the mods, it does PURE piercing. 1200 or so on mine.
Shadow Dancer
02-08-04, 05:07
I'd rather see the spirit mod not work against TL 25 shelter, than a 3 second tick so that the PPU can safely see he's about to get debuffed.
Make SpiritEffect/Mod/Weapon PE-only.
sanityislost
02-08-04, 05:55
Just make the spirit mod into a spirit rifle, which has a 5-10sec charge up time
kinda like its powering up with the end of the barrel getting brighter and
brighter. make it use TC and drop the TC req on the SH
SiL ..:..
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 06:09
Make SpiritEffect/Mod/Weapon PE-only.
Hawr hawr hawr very funny. :rolleyes:
Just make the spirit mod into a spirit rifle, which has a 5-10sec charge up time
kinda like its powering up with the end of the barrel getting brighter and
brighter. make it use TC and drop the TC req on the SH
SiL ..:..
it needs a timer say 2 second Charge time would work.....with the end glowing Blue cos spirits are BLUE !
Hawr hawr hawr very funny. :rolleyes:There is nothing funny about it.
In other words, so you understand it.
Only PEs should be able to use the SpiritMod/Effect/Weapon, furthermore should the shoot from a SpiritSH disable the Shelter on both the target AND the SpiritSH-User.
Lucid Dream
02-08-04, 07:32
There is nothing funny about it.
In other words, so you understand it.
Only PEs should be able to use the SpiritMod/Effect/Weapon, furthermore should the shoot from a SpiritSH disable the Shelter on both the target AND the SpiritSH-User.
Thats a good idea, yeah, we should also make it so that only tanks can use holy lightning. :rolleyes: SH is a high TL high tech rifle, making it PE only would be assinine.
There is nothing funny about it.
In other words, so you understand it.
Only PEs should be able to use the SpiritMod/Effect/Weapon, furthermore should the shoot from a SpiritSH disable the Shelter on both the target AND the SpiritSH-User.
Yeah and i want it that only my Tank can use the HAB spell.....
Well I got a spirit mod today on my rifle spy.
And yes, its extremely deadly, but ive always felt all classes should be able to confidently kill a PPU without the insane trouble it is now.
(ive yet to mod it, looking for an uber SH) :)
I have a 4 slotted silenthunter just waiting for a spirit mod... *waves his hand like obi-wan* You want to give me your spirit mod and you wont remember this.
put a spirit mod into a low lvl sniper rifle (the lowest tl one)
give it to your hybrid and voila hybrid with anti shelt :)
Thats a good idea, yeah, we should also make it so that only tanks can use holy lightning. :rolleyes: SH is a high TL high tech rifle, making it PE only would be assinine.
Yeah and i want it that only my Tank can use the HAB spell.....
God, how retarded can some people be.
IF the SpiritMOD, not the fking SH, would be PE-Only, it would be way better than now.
1.) PEs, nor any other class bare Spies, can't stealth anymore, so no more AntiShelter->InsertusageofEnergyweaponhere->dead w/e->stealth away, rinse and repeat.
2.) If the Spirit"Weapon" (won't call it SH anymore) would also remove the Shelter of the PE shooting someone, it would reduce the useage in CQC.
Just give me ONE good reason why the Spy should have the SpiritMod instead of the PE.
Just give me ONE good reason why the Spy should have the SpiritMod instead of the PE.
Spys = high tech
PE's = Joat
Tanks get Top end stuff PEs use mid range
MOnks get top end stuff PE's use mid range
You see the patten
Spys get top end stuff PEs use mid range
So why the fuck should A PE use a rifle hes not "meant" to use with the most powerfull mod in the game atm?
its like saying only PE's should use war gas mod on flame throwers :rolleyes:
spys actually become use full and ur trying to steal if off them fgs
Spys = high tech
PE's = Joat
so high tech means that u can be overpowered, and joat means u have to suck?
a joat would have some ability to remove shelter etc, high tech would do lots of dmg..
atleast imo..
Spys = high tech
PE's = Joat
Tanks get Top end stuff PEs use mid range
MOnks get top end stuff PE's use mid range
You see the patten
Spys get top end stuff PEs use mid range
So why the fuck should A PE use a rifle hes not "meant" to use with the most powerfull mod in the game atm?
its like saying only PE's should use war gas mod on flame throwers :rolleyes:
spys actually become use full and ur trying to steal if off them fgs
That's not even a halfway good argument.
So you say it's better that a class which is able to get nearly unkillable and undetectable for 10-60 secs., which is also able to withstand almost the same punishment as a Tank, should have a Mod which removes the Shelter of the Target w/o any warning whatsoever, because it makes them "useful"?
While a class which got semi-nerfed over several patches, would be instantly the god of the fking servers, because he could disable the Shelter on some, with the drawback of having his own remove also AND has to gimp himself to use it?
I won't even mention the point that I meant the SpiritMod itself, NOT the Silent Hunter.
Meaning the SpiritMod should be replaced with a "Device"/Weapon of some sorts.
Shadow Dancer
02-08-04, 11:28
Pes should get a different version that disables deflector. IMO disabling shelter is more useful than disabling deflector.
Pes should get a different version that disables deflector. IMO disabling shelter is more useful than disabling deflector.
Why, if I may ask?
can we plz not turn this into a spy/PE bashing thread
I'd rather see the spirit mod not work against TL 25 shelter, than a 3 second tick so that the PPU can safely see he's about to get debuffed.
this is a good idea and would solve the problem for the most part, KK, mod, someone, anyone? hello? *waves* HELLO? look!!!
Sigma you do know the mod only works on the SH ?? yah
and to be fair if u can show me a Spy that can take the same punishment as a tank i will be impressed...........
Spy and PE /= depending on setup spy> pe or pe > spy
its really a matter of getting the most u can from your char threw the use of what ever u can use :p
NO!!
No one solo whould be able to kill a PPU.
PERIOD.
By the same token no PPU should be able to solo and kill another player.
PERIOD.
But they can, and they do.
Sigma you do know the mod only works on the SH ?? yah
Atleast read my posts before criticizing it, I said that the SpiritMOD should be change into some kind of device or even a totally new weapon, which only the PE is able to use.
and to be fair if u can show me a Spy that can take the same punishment as a tank i will be impressed...........
I said nearly the same punishment, and thats no problem with a STR-Setup and Self-Cast Shelter.
Spy and PE /= depending on setup spy> pe or pe > spy
its really a matter of getting the most u can from your char threw the use of what ever u can use :p
No, atm it will always be Spy > PE, simply because of the fact that the Spy has the advantage of stealth.
Of course in a direct 1vs1 with no stealthing aloud, it would be Spy=PE most of the time, but in every other situation it's Spy > PE.
and to be fair if u can show me a Spy that can take the same punishment as a tank i will be impressed...........
uh, ask k4f to show you, you will be impressed, i promise.
and to be fair if u can show me a Spy that can take the same punishment as a tank i will be impressed...........
any fang spy
Just make it disable holy/blessed shelter but not the normal low tl shelter. Problem solved.
any fang spy
Any Spy with a STR-Setup and a plan about what he's doing. :rolleyes:
Clownst0pper
02-08-04, 15:01
Any Spy with a STR-Setup and a plan about what he's doing. :rolleyes:
Why do people thing FANG players are the only ones with brains?
Why do people thing FANG players are the only ones with brains?BECAUSE IT'S FAnG!!!11moep
No, I don't have a problem with FAnG-Players, well not often, I only have problems with FAnG-Players if I talk with them for more than 10 secs... :rolleyes:
Just make it disable holy/blessed shelter but not the normal low tl shelter. Problem solved.
except you'd get PPU's using normal shelter with holy heal
Indeed lexx, but they would be quite a bit easier to kill yes, and the other classes wouldn't be so badly affected by it.
To Ryuben...
Resists:
Armor PvM PvP
Piercing 199 95% - 95% 7% - 6%
Force 247 95% - 95% 6% - 5%
Fire 161 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Energy 157 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Xray 160 95% - 95% 5% - 4%
Poison 20 13% 29%
This managed to confuse me to say the least. These are my thoughts.
A bonus 25 strenght for the use of inquisition3 on a spy is doable, using Healing Light (TL-110) and Silent Hunter (TL-111) means that you don't need very high Rifle Combat or dexterity (althought, you seem to use PA3 for the extra x-ray).
Yet, the use of drugs has to be carefully evaluated to make a setup viable. To reach that high level of strenght you need to use the very limited set of +STR implants available [Berserks - Moveon - Strength Booster], but still save enought slots for dexterity implants [SA - SF] or use more drugs.
I tried to replicate that setup (on my live rifle spy), and I have found the following issues:
- I need to use various STR drugs (beast + x-strong at least), or a rare (nightshade), to reach 65 STR.
- What commonly left me with the necessity to use another drug to boost my dexterity (reflash)
- Some setups were completely unviable due the intelligence loss of berserk implants
- I need to use another drug to activate shelter (nightspider)
- When I finally managed to get a decent viable setup, with inq3, able to use and cap HL and SH (which needed 3 drugs), the values described in your con setup did not match. Well they did, but I doubt you have 0 base atl and 0 base body health.
Curiously tho, they did match when I put all inq armors or all duranit armors, but only in one resist at time (bare x-ray).
For the reasons explained above, and at the risk of sounding like a noob (what pisses me off), I'd appreciatte if you post more information regarding that setup, what viability and versatility has, and provide as many information as possible.
Thanks for your help.
A ppu's ability varies drasticly depending on how many enemies are attacking the ppu *and* how many friendlies the ppu has to protect. The ideal situation for a ppu is to have no friendlies and be fighting a single person. I say ideal because the ppu's attention will be focused on whatever the one enemy is doing and he can quickly respond. If you debuff, the ppu rebuffs. If you noob buff, the ppu tosses up heal sanct and does a dance around to avoid bein shot until your buff wears off so he can properly rebuff.
As you increase the number of ppl the ppu has to protect or the number of enemies attacking the ppu, his survival rating dives. The same debuffer that is pointless alone against the ppu suddenly becomes super effective when you add more people. In regard to the spirit mod, it is easily the best ppu killer. If the spy is workin with others you can wipe the floor with most ppu's.
Anyway, that aside, what I dislike is how much of an advantage it gives a few. We have yet another way certain clans can maintain superiority over others. First it was number of ppu's, then number of apu's, and now we add spirit mods. It's getting ridiculously hard to compete as a clan.
The "Mine is bigger" comments in this thread are not needed.
No one cares because we all know it's like a toddlers.
Actually, i think Shadow Dancer's idea is pretty good.
Give PEs something to disable deflector in a similiar way spirit mod does. PEs would get a useful tool which would greatly enhance their combat abilities and give them a reason to use low tech weapons.
every PE knows how to teleport out of trouble so hey theres no problem with spirit mods afterall i dont know why you guys die alot you guys maybe arnt good enough you know just sayin dont take it personally guys
peace
teleport? ooh tell me!!!, btw, cute girl in avatar =-D
ok when they start to attack you and then you type in local "lol n00b you cant kill me lol" and when you start laying down and drop your belt to masturbate in boredom you just press a mouse button (dont know about macs or linux machines sorry) and then you choose a location.
this is like common knowledge if youre a pe why are you even asking this?
lol, oh yeah, i've completely capped that skill =-P, i thought you mean one that didnt involve...you know...dying =-P, btw, did i mention, cute girl in duder's avatar?
DigestiveBiscui
03-08-04, 02:54
yes, spirit mods are nice, [ edited ]
IMO spirit mod should never have been included in the game. The idea that a spy can deshelter ppu with one shot at long range and make very little/no sound at all while doing it is not good. in an op war with all the guns firing and spells being cast u hardly hear the small click it makes when a sh at range hits u, This makes the spirit mod unfair and the fact that it can be used many times in a minute is even worse a spy can deshelter a ppu over and over.
just my opinion. ppus really dont need nerf if u play in a good clan they do die in op wars, even the best ppus. and a spirit mod constitutes a major disadvantage to ppus in op wars and to apus that a ppu wont even notice at all if he gets deshelterd and then will drop like a stone.
spirit mod is unfair mostly to apus then to ppus..... please kk consider this especially when some people have many many spirit mods in there clan.... not going to mention any names
DigestiveBiscui
03-08-04, 14:54
all i know is, mine legit because i got my screenshot of killing ze gm :p
[ edited] i must not hang with the right people cos im missing all this :lol:
i must not hang with the right people cos im missing all this :lol:
Same here...i know one guy i'm allied to who has got a spirit modded SH. And about 10 guys who are in enemy clans. :(
Please do not discuss or otherwise bring attention to exploits or potential exploits on the forums.
N
DigestiveBiscui
03-08-04, 18:32
Please do not discuss or otherwise bring attention to exploits or potential exploits on the forums.
N
the only reason i said anything nid is beacuse its the biggest advantage ANY clan could have over ANY server :(
spirit mods are lame it shows people who have no real skill need them to get any advantage they can to kill someone
i mean ffs why have a mod wich removes shelter its a fucking stupid idea and dosnt make sense for shit in rp why can a bullet remove shelter
imo change spirit mod to some kinda def peircing dmg or some shiz
anyway about my regular 1 post per 2months .
no qouting me!
Yea I'd much rather have deflector piercing bullets, not that nullify or cancel the deflector but they pass through it and inflict damage.
Yea I'd much rather have deflector piercing bullets, not that nullify or cancel the deflector but they pass through it and inflict damage.You sir, are brilliant. Thats an awesome solution. Maybe even increase the strength of the bullet. Start a new thread with this idea. :p
The liberator and pain easer could use an extra deflector piercing ability.
Or add a double or triple pricy low tech ammo that can penetrate (heh penetrate) a deflector shield.
Or the "lets be annoying and have another ammo mod thats super rare and gives double the advantage" option.
Ok
A PPU - unless he is very good and his victim is not, can't solo kill anybody. A very good anyclass can solo kill a PPU that is not good at PPUing.
This is how it should be Imo.
A good PPU and a Good anyclass cant kill each other in a solo fight
This is how it should be Imo.
A PPU has given up most off his abilities to attack.
This means that a PPU cannot effectively solo-level or solo hunt.
He has piss poor Con and is specialized in SPELL-defence. The most important of these spells being SHELTER.
Bringing the spirit mod into the game is like having a gun that pulls of a tanks armour and places it in the inventory. (Seriously - it is!)
So the one, single point of playing a PPU - to be able to run from an OP-fight as the last survivor (only to hear your comrades bitch at you for 30 mins for not protecting their stupid asses better) - is gone... o_O
But I don't give a shit about the PPU's.
And frankly I don't give a shit about the PE's either - because they have the ability to fight, cast defensive and healing spells AND are protected by above avarage armour. The PE is a jack-off-all-trades. Not best at anything but able to do everything. And it STILL is the most effective PvP killer...
The spirit mod - however - is an APU-killer.
As any smart OP-fighters have already figured this out. Target the APUs with spirit mods - and let anyone's grandmother kill them off.... Think seriously about this if you haven't allready.
An Antibuff for SPY's? Fine .. make it a true rare (not a hand out from GMs) and make it have the range, the visualization and the RoF of an Antibuff then. :rolleyes:
Clownst0pper
02-09-04, 13:15
Ok
A PPU - unless he is very good and his victim is not, can't solo kill anybody. A very good anyclass can solo kill a PPU that is not good at PPUing.
This is how it should be Imo.
A good PPU and a Good anyclass cant kill each other in a solo fight
This is how it should be Imo.
A PPU has given up most off his abilities to attack.
This means that a PPU cannot effectively solo-level or solo hunt.
He has piss poor Con and is specialized in SPELL-defence. The most important of these spells being SHELTER.
Bringing the spirit mod into the game is like having a gun that pulls of a tanks armour and places it in the inventory. (Seriously - it is!)
So the one, single point of playing a PPU - to be able to run from an OP-fight as the last survivor (only to hear your comrades bitch at you for 30 mins for not protecting their stupid asses better) - is gone... o_O
But I don't give a shit about the PPU's.
And frankly I don't give a shit about the PE's either - because they have the ability to fight, cast defensive and healing spells AND are protected by above avarage armour. The PE is a jack-off-all-trades. Not best at anything but able to do everything. And it STILL is the most effective PvP killer...
The spirit mod - however - is an APU-killer.
As any smart OP-fighters have already figured this out. Target the APUs with spirit mods - and let anyone's grandmother kill them off.... Think seriously about this if you haven't allready.
An Antibuff for SPY's? Fine .. make it a true rare (not a hand out from GMs) and make it have the range, the visualization and the RoF of an Antibuff then. :rolleyes:
Well, I lomed my rifle spy with spirit mod, to pistols the other week, and have never looked back, I gave the rifle away.
Personally, I didnt enjoy the weapon, I felt it was "too" good, and could honestly swing the battle in seconds.
And people moaning about they dont have chance to recast shelter on PE's and Spys, well thats a joke, I can do it on my spy ffs, im sure a PE can.
Original monk
02-09-04, 13:22
i want a spiritmod also :/
a spiritmod and a psikami are the only 2 things i need to complete my collection :/
Clownst0pper
02-09-04, 13:23
i want a spiritmod also :/
a spiritmod and a psikami are the only 2 things i need to complete my collection :/
Both suck :p
i've no idea whats been said to combat the spirit mod "problem" but i always found when having my shelters stripped, unless you have your eyes glued to watching your buffs there is no way to tell if your being antibuffed.
granted, when being antibuffed by a monk there isn't really anything to tell you your being antibuffd.... appart from the huge graphics of these beams shooting out of a gold/red pa monk. when a spirit mod, there is *no* warning, they are just gone.
when being shot at by anything else, your shelters glow... imo they should have some kind of graphic to represent that they are being stripped.
this way there is no nerf of the actual weapon, and ppu/pe get the warning system they require to have a chance of reacting fast enough, without having to keep his eyes glued on his buffs.
Well i remember i was like the only person that realised this when they first changed spirit mods to removing shelter and people said it would settle in. Fucking looks like it yeahNO! :wtf:
It has to have no recticle close up and unzoomed, and should'nt even work in 3rd person view, simple. It is _NOW_ a sniper fucking rifle and not a pistol.
SH rof is stupidly slow so cant be effective (without spirit mod)
say that since ages... sh frequency + low distance view (not better in nc2, for what does we need then a new gfx engine ?) + tank with ravanger = fu spy
Dribble Joy
02-09-04, 14:57
Bumpage = bad.
That spirt mod is a bitch but its so rare its not a problem
That spirt mod is a bitch but its so rare its not a problem
thou its not as rare as it is supposed to be
IMO if you gave either the spirit mod (lower TL) or some kind of mod that removed deflector to a PE everyone on the server would be PE's... thats just too powerfull for any class.
also IMO, PE's should be able to use stealth 1 but no higher. (JOAT means you can do average things right?)
isnt the paw of bear really good against a PPU ?
Aww quit the fecking whining. Some chars are better in a way than another and thats the way it should be. Just imagine how boring it would be to have 4 perfectly balanced chars. It would end up everytime so that the first guy that shoots wins.
FECK IT, SALAD FINGERS!!!
Original monk
02-09-04, 17:02
thou its not as rare as it is supposed to be
cool then maybe you can get me one :)
(daamn if that GMspiritmoddroppingsniper ever turns up on my screen, i gonna gank em so hard he didnt even know he's been ganked till 2 hours later when he comes out of he's subcoma behind he's computer :D problem is that he gotta drop it first ffcourse 8| )
blaczero ... if used correctly then a pob is pretty effective against ppu's yes :) not to say against everything :) its a tl100+ weapon AND instapoison, so it yust cant be bad :)
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