View Full Version : >> Construction Slots Again <<
enigma_b17
02-08-04, 00:57
Over the last month i ave saved up enuf cash to test this.
First my cstr is 119 int, 127 dex, and 220 construction skill
I built 250 Holy Shelters and the results were as below
0 Slots: 163 65.2%
1 Slots: 67 26.8%
2 Slots: 12 4.8%
3 Slots: 6 2.4%
4 Slots: 2 0.8%
5 Slots: 0 0%
Now with my cstrs stats and the amount of items built i would ave expected at least one 5 slot, but no.
CONSTRUCTION NEEDS TO BE REWORKED. A constructor with a high skill and high lvls Has to ave a better chance of getting higher slotted items, as G.O.D i think proved with his constructing tank who has chewed out better rares then i ave at my rank, which honestly is stupid. I dont really ave any ideas as im too heated up after not even gettin 1 slot, so I ask the community to help kk come up with a new way for constructing to work so people dont ave to go through this. :(
Slots are basically random if your lucky in a batch like that you will get a few five slots, if your note you get nothing.
enigma_b17
02-08-04, 01:09
Slots are basically random if your lucky in a batch like that you will get a few five slots, if your note you get nothing.
im aware of this yea, my point is that this needs to be changed, doin that many of em should really result in a 5 do u not think?
Agreed.
Does seem a little too randomized.
I agree with you, slot chance on construction does need to be reworked, with your stats you should have maxed theoretical construct, so you should have a higher chance of slots, however you've shown you have the highest probibility of getting zero slots.
I dont know how to rework construct to make it more able to produce slots, so I wont give any ideas (I'm too tired to think of any) but yes, the thing needs reworking.
True, and while at it:
You can keep the anti-macro stupid window moving thing in but for god sake give us even more XP for researching and constructing. I got from 20 to 23 int in 2 hours with ressing and constructing drones :wtf: Has the tradeskills been nerfed even more than they were 1 year ago or am I wrong?
And check the selling and constructing prices of the implants and weapons! Lazar gun sells for about 100cr and it needs WP1&2&3 to be made O_o I mean come on. No one has ever got rich by constructing but loosing like 400cr+ per item is just plain STUPID. How about dropping the chem prices? That would hurt the economy since no one who wants to use constructers services want to buy 200 chems to make 20 copies of a weapon. It would help anyone who wants to be a pure tradeskiller (yea yea shut up about the PvP game, you need us anyway...). And I belive that you SHOULD be able to lvl up with constructing and researching, and I belive it should be about as easy as by killing mobs.
Yea you may think that ppl would then lvl up theyr chars with tradeskills and lom them to combat char but who really wants to do that after he has spendet 2 weeks on leveling? Besides tradeskills dont lvl constitution so you would be pretty much fast food for the mobs anyway...
Apparently the gains in XP were increased a while back but then decreased again. For "reworking" I think.
Still sucks though hey.
Over the last month i ave saved up enuf cash to test this.
First my cstr is 119 int, 127 dex, and 220 construction skill
I built 250 Holy Shelters and the results were as below
0 Slots: 163 65.2%
1 Slots: 67 26.8%
2 Slots: 12 4.8%
3 Slots: 6 2.4%
4 Slots: 2 0.8%
5 Slots: 0 0%
Now with my cstrs stats and the amount of items built i would ave expected at least one 5 slot, but no.
CONSTRUCTION NEEDS TO BE REWORKED. A constructor with a high skill and high lvls Has to ave a better chance of getting higher slotted items, as G.O.D i think proved with his constructing tank who has chewed out better rares then i ave at my rank, which honestly is stupid. I dont really ave any ideas as im too heated up after not even gettin 1 slot, so I ask the community to help kk come up with a new way for constructing to work so people dont ave to go through this. :(
ouch that definetly is pretty frustrating
That does suck :( ... Ever thought of using slotenhancers ?
Pfft I like cst the way it is :p
Im happy with my 4 slot ravager constructed by G.0.D.
Edit: On a serius note.. your 100% right. No way should I who has 20 int and 85 base+imps cst skill get the same slot chances if not better then an uber spy cster.
enigma_b17
02-08-04, 01:29
That does suck :( ... Ever thought of using slotenhancers ?
Yea but for some reason it doesnt really feel like an ub3r slotted item if i use one of those, its like i only got it cause of the enhancer and I dont really want to do that lol, may sound pathetic but if i build somed thats 5 slots id like it to be on my own merits, not cause of some item :P
Ya I agree there Enigma, nice to be able to build purely off your skills and nothing else :)
Btw you like Enigma (music) ?
Yea but for some reason it doesnt really feel like an ub3r slotted item if i use one of those, its like i only got it cause of the enhancer and I dont really want to do that lol, may sound pathetic but if i build somed thats 5 slots id like it to be on my own merits, not cause of some item :P
Whats going to sound pathetic is coming out after doing 250 of them and not made a single 5 slodded and jusst two 4 slotters
:lol:
Whats going to sound pathetic is coming out after doing 250 of them and not made a single 5 slodded and jusst two 4 slotters
:lol:
Actually that's just a good way of pointing out that something is seriously flawed and needs looking at. Hopefully they are looking at it.
You should be able to build at least decent slotters with pure skills and not need augmentations.
Seems like low int with low dex combined with high cst skill gives much better slots for some reason. At least for me.
Which is a wee bit odd, no?
So it needs to be changed :p
Seems like low int with low dex combined with high cst skill gives much better slots for some reason. At least for me.
Yea, but that isn't actual factual. Alot of people make guesses on how things work by perception.
IMO that's just the way it goes. If everyone was guaranteed a 5 slot given a number of crafts it wouldn't be random for one AND that would further destroy the economy.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Make 250 more. See how you fare.
Make several sets of 250, zoning and/or relogging between attempts.
Repeat with lower CST skill.
Random is, well, random...
having had time to think about this somewhat, ok, not lots, just thought of it :p
The cst is reworked so that you have the highest chance of getting 1 slot, then 2 slots the 0 slots then 3 slots 4, and finally 5. So odds are you'll get at least a 1 or 2 slotter, or if you are really unlucky a 0 slot :p
Anyhow, introduce a slot enhancer into the equation and the odds are reworked, to 2,1,3,4,5 for a 0.5
3,2,4,5 for a v1.5
4,3,5 for an illegal
5 should always be the hardest to get, otherwise people would be able to get a couple cst and get a 5 slotter, the reworking of the order of slotting would mean you have higher chance of getting slots, and with slot enhancers being complete drop, it is easier to get urself slotted up.
enigma_b17
02-08-04, 09:29
"5 should always be the hardest to get, otherwise people would be able to get a couple cst and get a 5 slotter, the reworking of the order of slotting would mean you have higher chance of getting slots, and with slot enhancers being complete drop, it is easier to get urself slotted up."
i realise 5 slotters should be hard to get but with a batch like that at my cstrs lvl i dont think its unfair to think that i should ave gotten at least 1 5 slot :/
as for using slot enhancers i answered that before :P. It doesnt really feel like I built a 5 slot weapon if i ave to use it :(
Last year at one point I tried to make a 5 slotted black sun on Saturn. It took me over 1500 tries to get one. I was employing the help of researchers to make BP's for 1000nc each as well as using my own researcer. Using my barterer and my friends constructor to construct it took a very long time but I finally got it. In the end I don't thing it is worth it to make something that rare and it is very discouraging.
P.S.
With my barter I was making a slight profit off of the black suns even though I was using store bought weapon parts. Recently I constructed alot of rifles as I make a rifle spy and even now with the changes in the construct requirements I can still pull profit with the help of a 100brt barterer even with store bought weapon parts but constructed weapon part 8s.
Man, you have worse luck than i have. I'm very likely to get 5 slotted stuff on a batch of say 100.. (non rares) maby it's SL related or something..
I have built:
- 3 x SH's, the third one became a 4 slotter
- 4 x disruptors, one got 3 slots.
- 5 Healing Lights, only got 1 without slots and alot with 2 slots..
Spikadelia
02-08-04, 11:57
The Gods are Fickle. Made a Holy Heal for a friend, just one. He just wanted a better than the store-bought variety. Stood in Via Sec 3, albeit with good stats (Int & Dex 90, CST 198? with IMPs/glove)
Five slots 8| 8| 8|
Still feels like I was struck by lightning.
250 and no joy? What did you do in your last life?
enigma_b17
02-08-04, 13:08
well im going to lvl up a bit then try 250 more and if that doesnt work, then im deletin my cstr lol
Mumblyfish
02-08-04, 13:31
well im going to lvl up a bit then try 250 more and if that doesnt work, then im deletin my cstr lol
Why do people insist on wasting character slots so?
After a certain point, construction is pure luck. Why are you pouring 100 INT into construction? It's a total waste of a character, and no matter how much you level the outcome is still decided by a dice roll. Sure, more construct skill helps the probabilities a bit, but it's still totally ker-nuts.
Besides, the best constructors I know have a LOW skill.
Why do people insist on wasting character slots so?
After a certain point, construction is pure luck. Why are you pouring 100 INT into construction? It's a total waste of a character, and no matter how much you level the outcome is still decided by a dice roll. Sure, more construct skill helps the probabilities a bit, but it's still totally ker-nuts.
Besides, the best constructors I know have a LOW skill.
But the whole point is that it *shouldn't* be.
Specialization an'all.
Eddie
Mumblyfish
02-08-04, 13:51
But the whole point is that it *shouldn't* be.
Specialization an'all.
Eddie
But I like it this way. It punishes those who make crap "100% construction" setups.
Carbonite posted the formula a way back so its on the forums from june some time .... Skill int and dex play role ... lucky chair, hat and sclf don't.
It was a little bad luck 250 with 4 4slots and no 5 slots... next time you may get 2 / 3 5 slots.
when Building I do 100 at a time, when at 75 if no 5 slot then get my resser on next 100 BP's ... and so on .... till I have what i want
Random yer ... did 20 Holy rezz spells , first 2 were 4slotters ... and they are high TL
It is the difference between dedication and just playing ... and for that there is a price ...... Anyways wish you well with next set of builds
But I like it this way. It punishes those who make crap "100% construction" setups.
But that's their choice. If they want to spend one of their character slots making a pure constructor - it's their loss - I don't see why you're getting worked up about it =)
Eddie
Mumblyfish
02-08-04, 14:28
Hehe, my reputation is going to go bye-bye from me posting my thoughts in this thread. Oh well.
My real problem with setups like that is they're a big problem ingame. They've always caused problems, especially on one-character servers where few have a dedicated tradeskiller. For people who pick up several skills (construction/research/pistols, for example) pure constructors can be a bane, as some people won't get anything built by anyone with less than 200 skill. It's insanity! I believe that as much thought should be put into making a tradeskiller as is put into making a PvP character. Balancing implants and natural skillpoints - not just slamming everything into one skill and getting the best possible setup. I'd like to see people with setups like that punished, much like people who put every DEX point into R-C on a spy would be punished. I'd like to see a world where as much thought is put into a tradeskiller as a combat character, that's all.
And that's why I get pissy when people start talking about "200 CST skill" characters. It just makes the game immensely boring for me.
So sorry to anyone who's been greatly offended by my post here (a few of you, looking at my control panel). And reading over it again, sorry for THIS post because it's poorly structured and a total mess of various thoughts as regards tradeskilling. Jesus, I suck.
Hehe, my reputation is going to go bye-bye from me posting my thoughts in this thread. Oh well.
My real problem with setups like that is they're a big problem ingame. They've always caused problems, especially on one-character servers where few have a dedicated tradeskiller. For people who pick up several skills (construction/research/pistols, for example) pure constructors can be a bane, as some people won't get anything built by anyone with less than 200 skill. It's insanity! I believe that as much thought should be put into making a tradeskiller as is put into making a PvP character. Balancing implants and natural skillpoints - not just slamming everything into one skill and getting the best possible setup. I'd like to see people with setups like that punished, much like people who put every DEX point into R-C on a spy would be punished. I'd like to see a world where as much thought is put into a tradeskiller as a combat character, that's all.
And that's why I get pissy when people start talking about "200 CST skill" characters. It just makes the game immensely boring for me.
So sorry to anyone who's been greatly offended by my post here (a few of you, looking at my control panel). And reading over it again, sorry for THIS post because it's poorly structured and a total mess of various thoughts as regards tradeskilling. Jesus, I suck.
Actually.. that's quite correct to be honest.
Cuddle up: here's a little story.
I used to be a constructor *ages* ago on Pluto, if anyone can remember. At the beginning, there were lots and lots of people, and so every constructor got jobs to keep them occupied - regardless too much of skill and reputation.
This was before the days of people blindly believing "more cst = more slots".
And then Zai, the first of many, came along, with her 200+ skill - and suddenly she got all the business. And I had none. As you can imagine, I was incredibly annoyed.
I refused to LoM into a pure constructor, (not that the game mechanics would let me - as it's not a plausible way to level, nor is it terribly enjoyable), as I really liked hunting and fighting.
In the end I LoMed out my construct, as I couldn't seem to slot anything, and I needed my weapon lore.
Anyway.. with hindsight.. I dunno why I told that story now.
But at the moment, IMO, construction is in a state of confusion. It doesn't follow the normal specialization rules that KK seem to like, as in "more = better" - but simply relies on pure luck.
If I wanted test my mettle with Lady Luck, I could go play blackjack or something.
People don't spend time, effort and money to level up a character only to rely on luck to get something they want. That's just not right.
But equally so, it shouldn't encourage a monoply for pure (200+) tradeskillers.
Maybe KK could apply the "diminishing returns" rule like they have done everywhere else? I dunno. *shrug*
Eddie
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