View Full Version : Terminate heal when people are hit?
I think this strikes me as an excellent idea, a solution that requires little effort. Just do this and lower the mob strength, instant fix for all the pvp nightmares ever. I'm sick of PPUs honestly breaching turret defences, hacking, then drop turrets enough is enough....the heal is the biggest problem in the game, acting as a damage absorber in mid combat, and outhealing all major weapons in the middle of a fight is ridiculous, forces should be needed to pull back to heal, thats what a medic should do not grant life to those fighting to death.
point me to a game where such a powerful heal over time can exist? its just stupid, the spell is flawed. A battle group with more medics then the other groups doesn't mean the medics can outheal the other battle group in "midfight", medics can only heal when people pull back, and thats logical more ppus on one team should have a better back support, but not give an in fight advantage, those who rush in under constant fire, should not be able to heal, it just makes so much more sense.
Its not even a PPU problem, the heal spell is one biggest flaw in the game alltogether, no heal should be able to outheal, or preform in mid combat at better effeciency then medikits. Its illogical and imbalanced.
and before you say it, no the PPU class won't be ruined, they can still do everything including db, blue glue, resist buffs, shields and heal out of combat.
Without the heal people will think twice before fighting like we do now, do you know how i'm fed up with all op fights ending up with a lousy disco dance across the op, with ppus spinning around healing people, and apus and tanks trying to blast the shit out of each other in thiw whirlwind, its ridiculous tactless and mindless.
you know I was playing CS and unreal tournament 2k4, and I realised hey they have more strategy then neocron!
IMO heals should stop if the target is running, then resume at full strength when they stop.
Too true. I had an idea like this, although it involved having the ppu target the one to be healed all the time, sort of a continuous flow of psi-power to heal the wounded. This might be easier to make though, without seriously altering the game-physics (although they are already a total mess).
5 stars
I must say this is the best idea I have read so far.
It does not take away anything about the PPU support role, but probably would balance it completely.
5 stars and expect to be flamed.
Well maybe make it not that you getting hit will break the heal, rather make it that getting hit will make the cast fizzle.
That might already be enough.
Great idea though.
Disturbed021
30-07-04, 21:37
I like it. 5 stars.
Its kind of obvious the game has gotten to a point where PPUs need to be slightly altered and this is one of the better ideas about how to go about it.
Shadow Dancer
30-07-04, 21:44
I like this idea alot. I thought of it before, but I didn't think people would like it. But 5 stars anyway. :p
So what would be the point in heals then?
Also, how would this effect PE's who use a heal mid fight to actually give them some kind of fighting chance against a tank/spy/other PE?
From hosting the PVP event where I banned all heals, it really was telling against spies and PE's, neither could heal and they missed it a lot. Something like this would damage PVP for 3 classes.
Shadow Dancer
30-07-04, 21:53
Ok, well how about making it so that blessed/holy heal would terminate when you're hit?
No way this would just be another nerf for the PE how ? well PE's need to heal if you did not allready know with out heal they die once there leg hitpoints go
Ok, well how about making it so that blessed/holy heal would terminate when you're hit?
Holy heal is overpowered I think maybe it just needs to be toned down
crap Sorry double post :/
there is nothing wrong with the heals, just keep it as it is
Ok, well how about making it so that blessed/holy heal would terminate when you're hit?
That's a solution.
Althought I don't like nor see realistic ANY class healing mid combat.
Shadow Dancer
30-07-04, 21:58
Holy heal is overpowered I think maybe it just needs to be toned down
"toned" down? POB, executioner, and a few others need to be "toned down". Holy heal doesn't need to be "Toned down", it needs to be hit with a sledgehammer+5. At least foreign cast.
You know, if a tank has a holy shelter and a healing running, my apu PUMMELING him with a capped Holy Lightning barely dents him. I lommed to holy energy halo hybrid the other day just to fool around and experiment. And you know what? Now I know how pes feel when they fight against ppus. It's useless. I do shitty damage to anyone with holy buffs. If they have holy HEAL going, I do "no" damage unless they have the worst con setup in the world.
IMO!!!!!!!!!!
The only class that can effectively heal mid combat is the PPU, PPU's already have their heal stripped with TL3 healing, removing Holy Heal when hit, would just make PPU's use Blessed Heals, which would still give them very good heal, and total runcast too. PE's heal mid fights because they can easily runcast a TL3 heal and cast it in a second, giving them 15 seconds worth of healing time.
It is basically a bad idea that is unworkable in any way shape or form.
You know, if a tank has a holy shelter and a healing running, my apu PUMMELING him with a capped Holy Lightning barely dents him.
yup especialy if that tank has based his resists on ppu support like heat/haz 3 with a good PPU such a tank could run around as if he where in godmode totaly stupid.
The only class that can effectively heal mid combat is the PPU, PPU's already have their heal stripped with TL3 healing, removing Holy Heal when hit, would just make PPU's use Blessed Heals, which would still give them very good heal, and total runcast too. PE's heal mid fights because they can easily runcast a TL3 heal and cast it in a second, giving them 15 seconds worth of healing time.
It is basically a bad idea that is unworkable in any way shape or form.A PE with a good consetup and a tl 3 heal running is a bitch to kill.
Especially when hes on low health and you're using a gun that does locational damage. (Another issue though. o_O)
But still, they deserve it. Just make blessed and holy heal harder to cast/easier to break. That would solve a lot of problem.
And i agree with Lil T here, a tank set up around PPU buffs is pretty much invincible with a heal on him. Capped enr, extremely high fire and xray, very good poison, close to capped health. With (even just a foreign cast) holy shelter and a holy heal he can take a beating, its not funny anymore.
Holy Heal is just too fast. It need to be slowed down, not removed completly.
A PE with a good consetup and a tl 3 heal running is a bitch to kill.
Especially when hes on low health and you're using a gun that does locational damage. (Another issue though. o_O)
But still, they deserve it. Just make blessed and holy heal harder to cast/easier to break. That would solve a lot of problem.
And i agree with Lil T here, a tank set up around PPU buffs is pretty much invincible with a heal on him. Capped enr, extremely high fire and xray, very good poison, close to capped health. With (even just a foreign cast) holy shelter and a holy heal he can take a beating, its not funny anymore.
Well my PE is not using a moveon and has pretty low health and can be a bitch too kill if the person whos shooting at me does not hit me enough befor I have a chance to reheal. But If I don't heal at all in a fight I'm screwed I think its the same with most PE's PSI use is the PE's strength not weapon damage. Trying to kill another lowtech PE who is also healing with a liberator is a nightmare if there of eqaul skill which I why I want Anti heal ammo :)
I'm torn because its a good idea but would probably be about as big a nerf as you could possibly make to PEs. (Yes even more than stealth onoz!). I dunno though. Its still a pretty good idea even if it affected the normal heal. I mean it does make sense and all. I wouldn't bitch (too much :p ) if it was implemented. But Id still prefer a reduction of foreign target heals instead.
Anti heal ammo for the libby you know you want it :lol: bitchs won't outheal it then will they :p
Right on Shad.
And yes, it would hurt PEs a bit. But I still voted 5 stars, because something done is better then nothing done. It's SO bad, I went to a Healing Light setup so that I could actualy be usefull to my clan.
I want a rare holier heal spell.
/votes no
I want a rare holier heal spell.
/votes no o_O :lol: You sir, are good with the funny.
"toned" down? POB, executioner, and a few others need to be "toned down". Holy heal doesn't need to be "Toned down", it needs to be hit with a sledgehammer+5. At least foreign cast.
IMO!!!!!!!!!!
Alright, before I comment on this secret NERF PE's(again) AND PPU's thread, I'm going to comment on this line.
An executioner did (with capped damage), 2 points more then a capped Judge did, when Judge gets better rof and most people agree, is easier to aim.
I think it's quite the opposite, the executioner needs a boost. The reason it use to hurt tanks so bad is, it does Force damage, and most HC tanks don't spec force that much force if their aiming for high aim percentages on their CS.
Anycase, I'll give the obvious no
Why? Because a heal is a neccessary thing to live, who needs antibuff when every gun in your inventory does a remove heal? A PPU can only take so much without a heal, and any group of people with good aim would take a PPU down piss easy if he couldn't heal. PPUs do one thing only, keep him and his group alive, if he can't heal, he can't really do that. Mine as well remove PPU.
PE's, Spys and Melee tanks(HC tanks can also if their not bothering to aim for capped aiming on a CS) are all good because then can spec the PSU to cap heal RoF and keep healing to increase their lifespan. If you find it necessary to just nerf this, gg. It's like the last PE standing really, remove PE if you do this also.
kthx.
shodanjr_gr
31-07-04, 00:16
Yup i agree. When my monkey was lomed to PPU, it was like doing a "set god_mode 1". I was about rank 50 and i could withstand 5 opponents pumelling me with fire. That happening while i had holy buffs and heals up (and the worst con setup you have ever seen).
Something is definetaly wrong there...
Yes I'd agree but do PEs really need to be constantly nerfed? How about make foreign heals go away after a single shot? That'd be nice. While you're at it, make shields self-cast.
Shadow Dancer
31-07-04, 02:31
Yes I'd agree but do PEs really need to be constantly nerfed? How about make foreign heals go away after a single shot? That'd be nice. While you're at it, make shields self-cast.
Yea perhaps this should only effect foreign heals.
Dont like it, I think it will only encourage people to hug UGs in ops and the zoneline in pepper park.
Please don't give KK ideas :wtf:
They're distressingly willing to use cludge 'fixes' on the PPU. After anti-buff and spirit ammo I'm quite prepared to believe they'd give this idea serious consideration.
As I've said many times - I like the sound of my own voice - the monk class doesn't need quick fixes or new spells or cure-all pills. It needs a complete rethink, preferably at the same time as all the other classes, about what monks are for, what they're meant to accomplish, how they tie in with and balance against all the other classes, and how that goal can best be met.
I've had my fill of quick fix insta-nerf solutions. Once BDoY is with us (assumign it doesn't do it already) it's time for KK to sit back and really give the whole class system some thought.
Dribble Joy
31-07-04, 02:58
Ugh.
It would add to the realism, people should fall back to recuperate.
As to whether a heal should out heal a medkit, of course it should, that's kind of the whole point, psi powers at the disposal of the monks are better than conventional medicine.
That said, I dunno about this, the importance of PPUs needs to be delt with somehow.
The shield imbalance will still remain with this, and even slight removals from combat will have people back at full health.
This will as mentioned increase zoning, UG camping and make PvP a very frustrating place to be, constantly stagered and broken up.
A rework of the way monks and the ppu line of spells works is needed really.
Actually I think if this was added I would probably leave as Im getting pissed off with defending clans hugging the UG so they can re-heal and re-buff and theres nothing you can do to kill them, its on my pet peaves with mid-fight turret dropping lameness.
the idea could be tweaked around a bit but generally, I doubt the hogging ug will work afterall zoning in Neocron is a very slow and unstable thing, zone 7 times and you'rebound to FRE, also the time it takes you to get down and up isn't really worth it, what will happen is you get people actually hiding behind buildings, retreating., it would enforce strategy that is so non existence nowadays.
Of course nerfing blessed heal and holy heal is a good idea, but it makes me think shouldn't you nerf everything instead of being biased to ppu? I think fizzle is not a good idea, since heals cast so fast its almost hard to catch it due to lag and runspeeds, I think having the heal removed if you are hit is good, because it stops it from being the damage absorber its used as currently.
indirectly this will boost tanks, and nerf everything else, with the PE on top of the list. You know how much I love PEs, but PEs need to be solved in another level, regiving them back stealth, or adding a new toy would be a good idea, this heal thing is not a PPU or PE thing, tanks and spies all do it, melee tanks have good heals, spies heal then cloak... it makes fights pointlessly annoying, and strategyless.
Having shields self cast, is also another great idea, but it doesn't solve the heal issue, also it makes fights in NC last longer in generally shields is strategy in op fights, if both side have shields it would be fair (again the PE gets the wost deal), however unlike heal it does not ruin the fight in the middle, we must accepted that a team "without a ppu" is going to lose, however a team "with more ppus" shouldn't be teh win, which goes back to point A, you have more PPUs so you can heal more people at one time in mid fight.
this nerf will also indirectly make range a lot usefull then it is as rifles will actually hurt when used in range, since people can't heal while being hit, also AoE will be brought to another level (another PE nerf lol), that it can kill a lot better for groups standing in the open, so people have to find cover.
anyways forget about the PE for now, they are useless anyways. I have giving up hope is saving them
YES!
I can't belive no one thought of this before! it makes sense, PPUs still have a powerful place (espeically if they boost buffs a bit) but the PPU-suppository is no longer liscence to nuke any cave in teh game with a newb.
sounds okay pvp wise .. but I'm just thinking about the poor newbies who get a heal and try toheal up by hiding somewhere but that aggy keeps hitting them with 1 bullet between the barrels so their heal keeps falling off and their legs are gone so they can't run . . I sorta hate when things that people try and get to fix so called problems for pvp make the leveling experince a bit more tedious for the new character.
I did like the ideas though about maybe not being able to move while casting a heal or run . . and the other one about slowing down the holy heal or whatever. Those would most likely be excellant choices and wouldn't hurt the low end levelers ;)
Richard Slade
31-07-04, 14:35
I like it,
as long as it's just foreign spells.
And lower the foreign cast buff to like 50% or something
It's still good stuff
i like the idea, but it would need a lot of other things changing as well.
I like it,
as long as it's just foreign spells.
And lower the foreign cast buff to like 50% or something
It's still good stuff
don't know if just foreign spells are okay...sounds like an idea, that would be hard to track,
anyways I am worried that tanks will get too overpowered with this, after all they are the class which needs the heal less, they are already very good.
sounds okay pvp wise .. but I'm just thinking about the poor newbies who get a heal and try toheal up by hiding somewhere but that aggy keeps hitting them with 1 bullet between the barrels so their heal keeps falling off and their legs are gone so they can't run . . I sorta hate when things that people try and get to fix so called problems for pvp make the leveling experince a bit more tedious for the new character.
I did like the ideas though about maybe not being able to move while casting a heal or run . . and the other one about slowing down the holy heal or whatever. Those would most likely be excellant choices and wouldn't hurt the low end levelers ;)
I did say lower the mob strength, anyways you could always hide behind stuff when you get heal, even so I don't see the problem of letting the tl3 heal off the problem.
Or even better this does not affect the tl3 heal, only blessed and holy heal, also ONLY PLAYER DAMAGE is registered and can remove a high level heal, now thats kinda neat, means it won't affect PVM.
the idea could be tweaked around a bit but generally, I doubt the hogging ug will work afterall zoning in Neocron is a very slow and unstable thing, zone 7 times and you'rebound to FRE, also the time it takes you to get down and up isn't really worth it, what will happen is you get people actually hiding behind buildings, retreating., it would enforce strategy that is so non existence nowadays.
people do it enough already without a heal nerf, soon as there heal wears and they take some damage they zone.
If they loose the heal they ain't ever gonna leave the ug doorstep
it wouldn't enforce strategy, cuz the team would all be sat around the ug, if they fre they goto the centre of the zone and run back and guess what?
Zone into the ug to be rebuffed etc.
Yepp, blessed and holy heal needs serious nerfing, they always did.
Yepp, blessed and holy heal needs serious nerfing, they always did.
SEX!! 2-1 to me :p
I been sayin that for a long time, but would anyone listen? noo, just get some crackpot ideas like removing heal when the person healing is hit :confused:
I did say lower the mob strength, anyways you could always hide behind stuff when you get heal, even so I don't see the problem of letting the tl3 heal off the problem.
Or even better this does not affect the tl3 heal, only blessed and holy heal, also ONLY PLAYER DAMAGE is registered and can remove a high level heal, now thats kinda neat, means it won't affect PVM.
Well if it for sure wouldnt' effect TL 3 heal and was only player dmg that could break it . .sure why not. I guess it would help with the idea that people that are low on health would have to retreat to saftey. Although I think the run straight into the enemy and do a little dance at point blank range mentality will be really hard for alot of players to break. If it can break that sorta combat up I wont' feel as sad looking at pvp in neocron :p
Ok i don't see the prob with holy heal atm... A tank with s/d and a holy heal is not that hard to take down if you have 2-3 ppl hiting him. And if his heal runs he is just fucked.
"YAY LETS ALL KILL THE FUCKING HYBRIDS AGAIN THEY DONT DESERVE TO HAVE FUN ANYWAY AS THERE DIFFERENT TO ME"
FFS shut the fuck up. I'm pissed off at ppl trying to NERF everything.
I jsut about 10 seconds ago canceled my PE b/c PPL WYNED MOANED BITCHED AND MOANED MORE TILL PES are so fucking pointless u might as well be a drom....
I dont wonna have to cancel my monk.
darkservent
01-08-04, 10:56
Nope idea wont work. It not about the logic of when heal would work when not in combat. You have to think of neocron as a world completly different from what we are living in, where there are spells, magic and crazy mofos. Why not heal in battle then.
Clownst0pper
01-08-04, 12:22
Well...
Make it like DAOC, TL 3 heals say 40 HP instantly, Blessed Heals 100, and Holy Heals 250
Make it so you cant spam it, and it should work out fine :p
enigma_b17
01-08-04, 12:57
no ta
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