should PPU be removed? [Archive] - Official Neocron Forum

amfest

30-07-04, 03:37

Well personally I've always though monks should work like this.

the main aggressive monk would have good dmging spells and some sorta light heal spells that aren't all that great and some aggressive sheilds to keep users at bay like a spinning sphere of fire around the user that gives a sorta sanctum dmg to any runner near enough in it.

then the nature style monk would have good healing power and sheilds but light attack power. Their attack powers would be different style spells than that of an aggressive monk. But they would be a great asset to have and yet not totally overpower things. They would also be able to do some dmg to help protect themselves.

So we wouldnt' need these weapons that just totally destroy a ppu without them being able to fight back.

I doubt it'd ever change to a split hybrid style which I would prefer more of. One side more power than heal the other more heal then power. It would be so much easier to balance imo.

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 03:40

amfest

30-07-04, 03:44

been playing Dungeon Seige have we?heh . . . yea I've played dungeon seige. and yea I do pull that comparison alot from it. But I have done Pen and paper RPGs and I do like the whole strong attack weak healing abilites.. . or strong healing .. weak attack setup. It usualyl balances out nicely

I believe you can check some past posts of mine where I said the same thing and have said I was playing dungeon seige ^^

manderf

30-07-04, 03:50

no just leave em the way they are. It would change the game mechanic way to much and change the whole game drastically, and plus all the ppus would have to reroll and prolly wouldnt be to happy.

Mr_Snow

30-07-04, 03:52

Jest

30-07-04, 03:53

I cant believe Im doing this but Im voting yes. I dunno, I just dont see any other way. I wish there was since PPU is the only other char type I enjoy playign besides a PE. Won't happen anyways. :p

amfest

30-07-04, 03:55

no just leave em the way they are. It would change the game mechanic way to much and change the whole game drastically, and plus all the ppus would have to reroll and prolly wouldnt be to happy.
not really if they did it the way I suggested .. they would just need to get some new spells built . . mainly attack spells. Max heals would be dropped in ability and such.

Apus would need new spells built . . now they have some basic healing sheidl ability . but their dmg toned down ..

the ones that woudl most likely be crapped on would be the current hybrids. ;)

manderf

30-07-04, 03:55

The day I never need to use my ppu again will be the best day I have had in neocron, alot of ppus well non-pluto ppus feel the same.

alot you say??? OmG you can read minds!!! Teach me teach me

Mr_Snow

30-07-04, 03:59

All the ppus I know hate having to play one but do so since they have to to have a clan that can pvp, every one I have basically talked to would rather play another character class, basically its only the people who think para shock is balanced are people who think ppus should stay the way they are and they are in the minority in the game.

Tomalak

30-07-04, 03:59

Wow..tough question..
I voted yes, but maybe I'm biased, 'cause I play hybrids..I'm working on building a PPU based hybrid (all my others are APU base), to use the blessed defences..I'm not even really considering Pvp at the moment, except for defensive attacks (being PPU and getting surrounded by enemies blasting on you must be boring, with no real way to hit back)...
The point is, hybrids can replace either class of monk, in my opinion. These days, I feel weird, playing my on my APU who can't heal himself.,or my young PPU who desperately needs a team so he can earn XP, because he can't attack at all. Maybe, in my nibbish opinion, ONE balanced monk would solve the problems that people are always complaining about.
Personally, I think hybrids are the way to go. For a bit less damage output, you gain so many more advantages.

I'd guess I'd have to vote yes to remove pure PPU's (and pure APU's :) )

You know, I'm a hardcore monk fan, but monks ARE trashing this game..They are the biggest source of forum conflict when dealing with class balancing,They're a bit much, kinda insane compared to the other classes..Maybe there's lots of Psionics in the future, but it's closer to magic....just need some elves...

:lol:

Gohei

30-07-04, 04:10

No. Can't imagine how a tank or APU would ever cap.

Mr_Snow

30-07-04, 04:17

No. Can't imagine how a tank or APU would ever cap.

An apu needing a ppu to cap I can understand but a tank needing a ppu?

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 04:19

No. Can't imagine how a tank or APU would ever cap.

umm Warbots anyone?
you cant even say WB gives shity XP either

Gohei

30-07-04, 04:21

umm Warbots anyone?
you cant even say WB gives shity XP either

Warbots give shitty XP either.

See, i could say it.... A tank capping CON by hunting WBs would take about 23 years...

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 04:22

Warbots give shitty XP either.

See, i could say it.... A tank capping CON by hunting WBs would take about 23 years...
for 1 your a smart ass (btw i said say not type ;) )
if you want to cap con go to caves no armor jus get hit by the things and its nice XP there is other places to go then just the damn cave dude

-edit- btw tank con still takes like 23 years to cap its annyoing as hell no matter where you go

Gohei

30-07-04, 04:25

for 1 your a smart ass (btw i said say not type ;) )
if you want to cap con go to caves no armor jus get hit by the things and its nice XP there is other places to go then just the damn cave dude

Without a PPU to heal me ? Thats what i did, but i brought a Doomie and fired at really close range. I'm capped now tho. But i would never have gotten CON capped if it werent for PPUs...

Shadow Dancer

30-07-04, 04:26

An apu needing a ppu to cap I can understand but a tank needing a ppu?

Apu does not need a ppu to cap/level.

I voted yes. I know it won't happen, but it's how I feel. PPUs ruin the game IMO. KK takes very slight steps balancing them, like every 10 years. At this rate they will never be balanced. They are wayyyy too important and have too much of an influence on the outcome of pvp. I wish FN would post here. His clan attacked my clan's op, and he didn't have a ppu. I think it was twice. I think we had one only too. And...well he can tell you what happened. :p That's how much of a difference one ppu can make. pfftttt.

Either KK needs to take a tougher stance on ppus(I mean like this year), or they need to be removed.

IMO of course.....

LOL, look at the poll. It was 50/50 when I voted, and now it's still 50/50.

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 04:28

Without a PPU to heal me ? Thats what i did, but i brought a Doomie and fired at really close range. I'm capped now tho. But i would never have gotten CON capped if it werent for PPUs...

if you need a PPU to cap con you suck i usally get nice Con XP from PVP

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 04:29

LOL, look at the poll. It was 50/50 when I voted, and now it's still 50/50.

50% own
50% pwn

SirRah

30-07-04, 04:31

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 04:32

well im not for a total removal of them (i dont want to always take the GR :p ) but for a removal of there importance.

make holy/blessed s/d selfcast only, give 50% malus to foreign cast heal, either remove para and dmg boost or make them PvM only. bang PPU's balanced.
thats exactly how i wanted it but its not gonna happen so im posting anouther usless poll just to see how many really want a PPU gone even tho itll never happen

Dirk_Gently

30-07-04, 04:53

Yes remove all Monks.

Stupid D & D wizardy crap. :mad:

RayBob

30-07-04, 05:37

PPUs ruin the game IMO...They are wayyyy too important and have too much of an influence on the outcome of pvpI agree. However, removing them would require the entire character/class system to be rethought and weapons rebalanced. We know that is never going to happen but let’s think it through.

What would happen at an OP fight without a PPU? Even fully buffed with PPU shields, APUs and tanks still do decent damage to each other. Without heals or shields, it seems an OP fight would be over pretty fast. And I don’t think anyone would like to see the resurrection skill completely eliminated.

One possibility would be to make all classes hybrids; that is, capable of buffing, shielding, and healing themselves. Hybrids are arguably the most challenging class to play as they require the greatest situation awareness having to fill both defensive and offensive roles. A TL3 heal is useless for self-healing during an OP fight with high-powered rares pounding away at you. The strength of these new hybrid shields and heal would have to be somewhere near blessed level. I suppose you would have to let all classes use a resurrect spell or make it a tool.

The problem with this scenario is that the tanks, having the greatest CON, would clearly be unbalanced. The PE class seems useless.

I think the only way to balance it would be to have only one class so that everyone has the same shielding, healing, and CON. In other words, defense is the exactly the same. The only differentiation would be your choice of offensive skill: pistols, rifles, cannons, or psi.

Like we both said, never going to happen and I’m not sure people even want it to.

Shadow Dancer

30-07-04, 07:08

[COLOR=DarkOrange]I agree. However, removing them would require the entire character/class system to be rethought and weapons rebalanced. We know that is never going to happen but let’s think it through.

You truly are a master of exaggeration. ;)

Why would weapons have to be rebalanced?

And why would the entire character/class system need restructuring?

What would happen at an OP fight without a PPU? Even fully buffed with PPU shields, APUs and tanks still do decent damage to each other. Without heals or shields, it seems an OP fight would be over pretty fast. And I don’t think anyone would like to see the resurrection skill completely eliminated.

True. How about reducing overall pvp damage? Or limiting passive psi and allowing everyone a good heal?

I think the only way to balance it would be to have only one class so that everyone has the same shielding, healing, and CON. In other words, defense is the exactly the same. The only differentiation would be your choice of offensive skill: pistols, rifles, cannons, or psi.

Ahhhh. You mean one class(or no class) and you choose which weapons to use, which stats to cap, etc..........?

That would be cool.

Like we both said, never going to happen and I’m not sure people even want it to.

:p

I think the biggest arguement made against ppus being balanced, comes from the very same people who want to keep ppus due to them thinking the entire game would need a major restructuring if it was removed. If a class has that kind of effect if it were to be removed, then how can people say it's balanced?

Imagine removing the PE class? Would that have a major effect? :p

ino

30-07-04, 07:15

NO fucktards no.. go remove all the other classes aswell when your at it.

MrTrip

30-07-04, 07:43

It takes awhile to kill a PPU...I say remove him.

It takes awhile to kill a Tank....remove him.

I saw a PE take down a PPU....remove the PE...he is to powerful.

I saw a spy take down two tanks and stealth. WTF? Remove the spy or I quit neocron.

I saw a GM kill everybody in neocron. Fucking remove the GM's to.

I saw a warbot kill a team of noobs. Fucking noob killers anyway...remove the warbots.

The faction guard killed a doomreaper with no troubles. Remove the faction guards we can't kill them easily.

I saw a copbot do 1000 damage to a spider! WTF?! Remove the copbot or nerf him so we can kill him.

I just got killed by a Grim Chaser that spawned a bunch of Small Reapers. I think the Grim Chaser needs to be nerfed and the Reapers just removed. I quit until you remove the Reapers.

Now....I think I have covered everything....and yes I do have a PPU character and no I do not think he is overpowered.....in fact I lomed my apu to ppu thinking I would be a bit more powerful...oh god was I ever wrong....I was taken down by a melee tank like I was a roach.

Oh that reminds me....a melee tank killed me...I want that class removed from the game or I am never playing again.

:lol: Idiots...

Benjie

30-07-04, 07:54

Remove ppu's yeah. Either that or give them fluffy pink pa, devil horns and boobies.

RayBob

30-07-04, 08:20

You truly are a master of exaggeration. ;) Why would weapons have to be rebalanced? And why would the entire character/class system need restructuring?Well, if you don't think giving all classes the same CON and same ability to self-buff, shield, and heal constitutes a complete restructuring of the current character class system then I can't convince you. Given that they would all have the exact same defense, the weapons would have to be rebalanced. The APU spells, for instance, do more damage now as compensation for the monk’s weaker defense but that would have to be reduced I also think that a reticle would need to be added and line-of-sight implemented to make it the same as the other weapon categories. The same applies to pistols and rifles. A capped stats Healing Light or capped stats Slasher spy with the same CON, shields, and heals as a tank would be wildly overpowered. If you don’t see that as requiring a full weapon rebalancing, then fine, I like to exaggerate.

True. How about reducing overall pvp damage?I considered that but I don’t see it working. A typical unbuffed tank vs. unbuffed APU duel lasts 10-15 seconds. Even if you reduced overall PvP damage to 1/10th it would only give you a 3 minute OP fight.

Ahhhh. You mean one class(or no class) and you choose which weapons to use, which stats to cap, etc.......... That would be cool. Yes. Everyone is a hybrid with the same defense and healing capabilities but different offensive weapon category.

I think the biggest arguement made against ppus being balanced, comes from the very same people who want to keep ppus due to them thinking the entire game would need a major restructuring if it was removed. If a class has that kind of effect if it were to be removed, then how can people say it's balanced?
Imagine removing the PE class? Would that have a major effect? :pExcellent point. I would like to see someone try and argue against that logic. Hell, you could remove any combination of APUs, tanks, or spies, and still have OP fights. The only required class is the PPUs.

I don’t know why so many people think that you have to have a healer class in every RPG. Someone needs to break the mold and make an all-hybrid class system.

RayBob

30-07-04, 08:25

Idiots...Calm down, Mr. Trip
KK is not going to delete PPUs, we are simply discussing how it would affect the game. Just a little harmless theorizing.

Birkoff

30-07-04, 08:28

MAKE ALL MONKS HYBRID (balanced)

It solves the whoel problem.... *sigh*

Maester Seymour

30-07-04, 08:38

Well my main character is a PPU too, i don't often like to play him but as they are currently required to have at an op fight i usually end up on PPU duty :mad:
If PPUs weren't required so much i would lom him back to APU like he used to be and i don't think they are a particularly fun class to play. I find em more stressful than anything tbh :p

Rather than removing them completely, i reckon just making them not "needed" to have an op battle somehow. No other class is required as much in order to have an op battle so i think PPUs should be the same. Make a PPU an added extra to an op battle so to speak, optional like the other classes but not required.

I voted to remove em anyway ^_^

Duine

30-07-04, 08:43

MAKE ALL MONKS HYBRID (balanced)

It solves the whoel problem.... *sigh*

Agree...!

But remove the point sink that is MST and bring back EPU so you expand the possible combinations, effectively fighting the cookie-cutterism. Also, tone down dmg a bit but unrandomize the dmg. Make handling on spells actually mean something. Make monks gain DEX exp by teaming again. Maybe raise STR and lower Con a bit (since all monks will have access to heals/buffs) so more options are possible combined with Melee :)

Oh and remove monk PA. It's ugly. And fix dex gain.

Oh and fix dex gain.

and fix dex gain

ino

30-07-04, 08:47

RayBob, harmless theorizing isnt bad but mostly and infact always that gets overshadowed by ppl whith the whine..

I wasn't that happy to weak up and see this thread title I must say :).
Now I've read some more threads but I dont think you should remove something some ppl atleast like to play, its not fair.

I've stated countless times in the anti ppu whin0r threads that Im all for trying different changes as long as they are reasonable.

1. Im all for trying first on test server selfcast shelter/deflectors
2. --------- " ----------------------- one of shelter and deflector on teammate, one of their choice.
3. the absolute removing of Para shock in pvp cause it really do suck.
4. Im all for trying the removing of Holy cath sanct spell, holy antipoison spell and the truesight spell.
5. Im all for trying no dmg boost in pvp.
6. I can try out a lowerage of the protection that def and shelter does to self.
7. And if nothing is pleasing the selfish bastards who are whineing then I could go as far as to try out the removing of the ress spells.

edit.

8. Im willing to try out the lowering of the duties a ppu has, like cst buffing, attack skill buffings and just let the classes with the hc weaps use hc2 and 3 and so on. Just to see how it's dealt with.. The ppu has theese spells as I've said before, they are the class the benefits the least from having them.

when it comes to removing shelt def on others then mobs needs to be toned down and if not they need to increase the healing power of the heal. Making ppu's harder to kill. If they wont lower the dmg mc5 guards does and yreps, copbots and so on it will practicly be impossible to do them.

And said before and gonna say it again. You can actually kill ppus :) You can actually kill them without the use of antibuff, especially if they aren't that good. I dont think I'm that uber good playing my apu but I've killed quite few ppu's in fights cause I think and try different approaches when I have the time, like when there are tanks on the team that can soak the dmg :) So if I can YOU can too. A ppu with a dead team has lost. And there are often fights where dmg dealers drop from left to right alot. And it isnt absolutly nessecary to kill the ppu as long as he cant ressurect the dead you have won the fight.

winnoc

30-07-04, 08:53

Make the monks hybrids and then ballance them out.

PVP is much more fun when there aren't any monks around.
Spies, PE's and tanks are ballanced now, maybe the poison claw is a little overdone, but that's it. Pe's might need some loving (new gadget?, and no i don't have a pe)

Archeus

30-07-04, 08:57

they will always need to be important its there role PPU ruined PvP
thats why i dont play NC anymore

So you don't play NC and you want PPUs removed. Get a grip.

When you play the game again, then you can comment.

Original monk

30-07-04, 09:13

@ the great milenko: atleast youre being honest and would like to remove em instead of the rest thats yust trying to make a ppu's life harder by asking for endless nerfs, preferably every month so they need to adapt everytime to those new nerfs making it less and less fun to play em little by little :/

like a virus infecting he's host littlebit by littlebit weakening him from the base on :/

i would like to vote YES, yust so all this parashockshit, selfcastable shit and whining is over with ...

but i must vote NO because it has no real use in ppu's to dissapear ... they need a mayour revamp tough, onlything im afraid for is that the revamp is gonna be worse then we got now :)

like amfest said before is pretty intresting, monks all being somekind of hybrid with on 1 side the offensebased hybrids and on the other side the defensebased hybrids ... to be honest this is how i always knew hybrids ... until KK forced monks to go pure or suffer nerfs beyond belief :)

but with the current system taken practically as an example ya would only get them apubased hybrids and them blessed hybrids ... wich is sucky ffcourse

so yes this would mean that the whole spellsystem must be revamped also, meaning spells should dissapear and (many) new ones introduced ...

with other words: if you aint happy with them monks: then change em all :)

killing a class doesnt work anyway or produces mixed feelings amongst the playerbase (points at hybrids)

and using the word hybrid so much i wanted to ask ya what will happen with them if ppu's would dissapear ? would ppuspells be removed also ? and if yes ? wich ones ?? the topline holy spells ? because you probably dont wonna remove the blessed ones cause some PE's also use em ...

if ppu's got removed then PE's will get a giant boost cause they can still use decent spells ... and ffcourse them blessed hybrids (yust thinking about what would happen if ya would trow out ppu's and the holy line of buffs/heals out of the game)

yust some toughts ...

if you where going to revamp or change ppu's/monks then ya gotta start adyusting a whole lot more then yust removing em i think

still a very intresting question i must say, never really tought about the consequences the complete removal of ppu's would bring

MjukisDjur

30-07-04, 09:17

No removal but S/D/H should be selfcast only. We got group spells for buffing other people. Force usage of them.
Bonus is that one can sneak in and soup up some of that sweet buffage :P

And while you are at it, increase poison damage and FORCE PEOPLE TO SPEC POR! Por is just plain silly atm. I mean almost no one care to spec for poison since it hurts way to little and people just pop a antipoison drug. Cheers

Original monk

30-07-04, 09:21

And while you are at it, increase poison damage and FORCE PEOPLE TO SPEC POR! Por is just plain silly atm. I mean almost no one care to spec for poison since it hurts way to little and people just pop a antipoison drug. Cheers

people yust zone with 300 stacks 5 slot poisonbeam and still survive :/

poisonspells are my favourite spells :/ but there made useless anyway

also an xrayspells would be nice (what about a xrayhalo apureq 120 ? :P)

enigma_b17

30-07-04, 09:58

"I mean almost no one care to spec for poison since it hurts way to little and people just pop a antipoison drug"

well thats their mistake then, poison still does alot of damage before the drug takes effect if u get enuf stacks on them, but since poison doesnt work when u zone its a bit pointless either way.

As for this topic no, no and er no again. Apart from the fact that my main character is a ppu and I dont want to loose him, can u imagine this game without a ppu?, implanting would be taken in a whole new light with people dying every 2 minutes. were u stung by a ppu when u were young :P?

amfest

30-07-04, 10:06

can u imagine this game without a ppu?,

Actually yes I can . .it was called beta and it ruled. People weren't spoiled on resurrection because a monk would have to get very High EPU and hte only spells in there were rez and dmg boost. You'd have to lose out on shield and healing. Also when you rez'd you'd recieve SI ;)

Richard Slade

30-07-04, 10:11

Actually yes I can . .it was called beta and it ruled. People weren't spoiled on resurrection because a monk would have to get very High EPU and hte only spells in there were rez and dmg boost. You'd have to lose out on shield and healing. Also when you rez'd you'd recieve SI ;)

I liked those days...

MrChumble

30-07-04, 10:20

It should only be removed as part of a complete overhaul of the monk class. I'd prefer to see it properly balanced than removed (ie more emphasis on group buffs and heals, less on immortality).

Vampire_Reaver

30-07-04, 10:47

hmm no. just no.
ever tried going to cave without a PPU?
ever tried going to MC5 without a PPU?
ever PvPed without a PPU?
ever tried headbutting and fisting a grim chaser to death without a PPU? :lol:

well its more then possible to go caving without a PPU, but its a pain and totally no use. I rather go mass slaughter cloppys, thats better xp and way more dull..
MC5 without a PPU? thats like commiting suicide as sure as 99%. Sure I heard a hyb could stay alive alone in there and yaddayadda, whatever.

PvP without a PPU? takes out the fun in PvP actually I think, sure its nice to be left alone and duel without a PPU sometimes, but its not fun when you or your opponent drops dead in 15 sec :( you get no rush, no nothing. its just *blamblam* over.
So a removal of the PPUs will take us back to beta time, sure that was one of the best times for me, and I liked those days, but there wasnt really much to choose to do for me, since I was barely pretty much a loner and hardly ever played with my clan.. Best of ever was going to BattleDome and kill cloppys for a whole night. And cloppys was also the highest mob I could xp of too.. Sure I killed WBs too, but that went so slow there wasnt much of a xp gain from that..
Ppl also whine that its to easy to cap and lvl up in this game, then dont go caving, dont play with a ppu, u dont like em, screw em then.. Noone is forcing you to go caving, go kill cloppys for 12 hours a day instead... :angel:

Noodle

30-07-04, 10:50

If u remove PPU then remove APU also, make all classes aim, then give me a tank with 100 str and 95 con, herc, marine, 3 slot artifact rares, cuz i want replacement for my character.

phunqe

30-07-04, 10:54

Ok... this has been discussed numerous times and I've been thinking a lot about it myself.

Removal of PPUs and passive spells is not going to happen...
Yet, many are displeased with the current situation.

So what about we try out this S/D selfcast only thing (still allow groups and sanctums though).
I mean would this annoy PPUs out there? I'm doing a hybrid experiment atm, but I mostly play PPU on my monk and I can honestly say it would be fun to try out.
It will be the same for everyone and you would still have excellent defence, so I don't see a problem with it from that point of view. You will still be very tough to take down. Like it should be imo, but you only... not others you "touch".
You would be limited to healing others only. Possible tweakage of foreign heal needed here, but that can be dealt with after a potential S/D change.

We could try it out at least :p
Dungeons will be a problem though (capped holy shelter groups has a range of 100+ metres).

LTA

30-07-04, 11:17

Voted no to removal.

Rather see them balanced and still be useful just not war turning/vital
and yeah... have fun in mc5 with no holy heal O_o

There buffs should be self cast, all the combat boosters tho and the anti things should be castable on the others, so you could get the various buff 3's and anti poisons etc in combat and heals.
So they still have som use in the war just not blessing godlike defenses

Clownst0pper

30-07-04, 11:17

When both sides have PPU's = Fair

When both sides dont have PPU's = Fair

When one side has PPU's and the other does not = No chance in hell

And that is the problem right there, the balance between having one, and not, is so extreme, that to be without one is death on your doorstep.

Noodle

30-07-04, 11:57

how about this, 2 tanks, an APU and a droner vs 2 tanks, an APU and a PE.

the side with the droner will win, because he has no risk of dying and he does pretty massive dmg to unbuffed targets.

replace droner with ppu, same result. so lets remove the droners!!!

phunqe

30-07-04, 12:00

The droner's team has the edge in open terrain only though, but I see your point :p

ezza

30-07-04, 12:13

ive not read from beyond page 1 but anyway.

i voted no.

now although i would like ppus removed(i belive they should of balanced hybrids instead of spawning apus and ppus)however, now that they are here might as well keep em.

i just think PPus still play to important a part in fighting.

DigestiveBiscui

30-07-04, 12:15

lol same ezza

tis an easy no :p

Dribble Joy

30-07-04, 12:48

Remove all ppu spells above tl 40 except rez, everyone is a hybrid or a pure apu.
Mob dmg/hp has and can be altered (and all the changes to it were due to ppus) and xp can also be changed.

Nippa

30-07-04, 12:54

they will always need to be important its there role PPU ruined PvP
thats why i dont play NC anymore

so why make a poll if u dont play any more then ?????????

ino

30-07-04, 13:00

Ooouu.. I see so many ppl agreeing that oh it was soo good back in beta and early retail. But we seem to have forgotten alot aswell now haven't we.

Back in thoose days (this has been brought up to everyones attention before by me) ppl didnt know what the fuck to do.. Specialization didnt exist. ppl didnt have con like they have today, they didnt do as much dmg as they did back then, the game isnt anymore just about fighting to have a little fun, If it was about having fun ppl wouldnt whine all the time when they looose. And the list of things DIFFERENT to thoose days goes on and on. And to use that as an argument is just stupid, IF you dont bring the game back to what it was then.

Jesterthegreat

30-07-04, 13:04

I dont think ppus need removal but just a massive reduction in their importance.

thats the one.

make them a nice bonus... not a PvP "essensial" (or OP war essensial at least :p)

they should be a boost to your combat effectiveness, but not more PPU's = win

Vampire_Reaver

30-07-04, 13:11

ppl didnt have con like they have today,

cause the resists never worked back then :lol:
tho it was funny anyways :)
even if hc tanks owned all when there was no run-speed slowment from having the cannon pulled out :p and ofcourse there was no cap in how fast you could go :eek:

it was fun even if I was a rifle spy without stealth, PA or sniper rifles :cool:

I didnt say that it was better back then, I just say it was good anyways..
I'm just happy to play a game thats fun to play with fun ppl..

funkeymonkey

30-07-04, 14:21

Yeah no ppus would be great for people that dont play an apu... Would force monks to be hybrids to be viable in ops. Pes get the choice of rc/pc lowtech/hightech, tanks get mele/hc choice, spys got rc/pc tradeskiller choice yet monks would be forced into being hybrids?

RayBob

30-07-04, 15:43

MAKE ALL MONKS HYBRID (balanced)

Make the monks hybrids and then ballance them outI think it would be nice if there was some way to still have variety of classes with different roles to play BUT ALL classes were hybrids at heart and not just the monks. All classes were responsible for their own buffing, shielding, and healing. No one class would play the healer role as this role always ends up being the most important in all PvP-focused RPGs.

Noodle

30-07-04, 16:01

I think it would be nice if there was some way to still have variety of classes with different roles to play BUT ALL classes were hybrids at heart and not just the monks. All classes were responsible for their own buffing, shielding, and healing. No one class would play the healer role as this role always ends up being the most important in all PvP-focused RPGs.

that is actually the best idea in this thread...

however, wouldnt it make everyone have the same heals/buffs?

phunqe

30-07-04, 16:04

ino

30-07-04, 16:06

Hell yeah it was fun back then when specialization didnt actually exist I dont argue against it. You could try and do a little of everything. My spy on pluto used long laserblade 1 I think back when spies had 50 str. and rifles cant remember if I did some pistols to for fun plus hack.

But I argue against it when ppl use the old way of the neocrack vs what it is to day, uber specializations and all that. the con works and so on. Today is not at all alike what it was back then.

Ppl could kill fire mobs without much effort nothing was especially hard, kk made mobs harder for us to have something more challenging. forced specialization on us so weapons would be used to their full potential, and maby it got too hard, and they introduced the two monk variations we have today. Ppu to ease up the mob process and to increase the battle efficiency of its team alot to help them do more dmg and to help them take more dmg from the weapons that did alot more dmg than they probably was supposed to do.

Noodle

30-07-04, 16:06

rofl, omg phunqe damn you!!!!

you made me spit ice tea on my monitor!!!

enigma_b17

30-07-04, 16:11

"Yeah no ppus would be great for people that dont play an apu... Would force monks to be hybrids to be viable in ops. Pes get the choice of rc/pc lowtech/hightech, tanks get mele/hc choice, spys got rc/pc tradeskiller choice yet monks would be forced into being hybrids?"

i dont know if ur bein sarcastic ere or wha, but from this the point that it would force monks to be hybrid would be unfair. No1 should be forced to be a hybrid, just like no1 forces another class to go one way to be useful its just silly. PPUs are fine except for parashock.

RayBob

30-07-04, 16:14

that is actually the best idea in this thread...
however, wouldnt it make everyone have the same heals/buffs?Yes. However, that causes a problem because right now your CON also plays an important role in your defensive capabilities. To be truly balanced, all classes would need to have the same CON as well as the same heals/buffs. Right now, each class’s is in large part defined by their ability to absorb damage. The trick would then be to redefine the class structure via the roles they play and not their ability to survive.

On second thought, maybe all classes would NOT need to have the same CON. For example, let’s look at an APU vs. a tank at a current day OP fight. Let’s assume that both were buffed and supported by a PPU. Even though a tank has more than double the CON, it is still a fair fight. Why? Because the tank’s higher CON is balanced by the fact that the APU does higher damage. Hmm. This might work. 8|

RayBob

30-07-04, 16:19

"Yeah no ppus would be great for people that dont play an apu... it would force monks to be hybrid would be unfair. No1 should be forced to be a hybrid...Are you even reading what I wrote? ALL CLASSES would be hybrids at heart, not just APUs.

enigma_b17

30-07-04, 16:20

i didnt say that it was a quote from the post above me lol

Noodle

30-07-04, 16:22

actually the lowtech PEs will be shafted.....

RayBob

30-07-04, 16:35

actually the lowtech PEs will be shafted.....Yea, PEs would be hurt the most by this. That class would need some sort of boost.

shenten

30-07-04, 17:11

Stupid poll, I won't even read the rest , i just voted no to be sure KK dont listen to that kind of stuff.

Nuff said.

Harch

30-07-04, 17:13

ezza

30-07-04, 17:15

firstly.... if u remove ppu's...alot of people will leave cus it will make it fucking hard to lvl...u might as well say good bye to cave runs and u can say FUCK OFF to mc5 ..... i vote no cus its a dumb shit poll ...
ROFL why would they need to leave?

remember when PPus came about, they increased the mobs? well all they do this time is reduce them.

not hard, and unless you are die hard ppu who apsolutly doesnt want to be hybrid then there wouldnt be a problem

Birkoff

30-07-04, 17:20

hmm no. just no.
ever tried going to cave without a PPU?
ever tried going to MC5 without a PPU?
ever PvPed without a PPU?

Caving is easy as shit with no ppus, jsut 99% of the population have never tried it and don't rember how it used to be or didn't play.

MC5 is easy as shit with no PPU if u know how :) (no exploits)
I don't use a PPU for pvp unless 1 is there naturally.

points floored.

And no all hybrids won't be the same, like now u have all sorts of hybrid. You can have APU based who can use anti shield/shelter and PPU based who can have a high % of there ppu spells. (self cast shields)

Harch

30-07-04, 17:41

mc5...no ppu......when i see it...i still wont belive it dude.. theres no where you can hide (without exploits or going in walls etc etc etc) unless u ave hacked into the game and make urself a little room in the side with a peep whole for ur doomie bullets to go thru L337!!!! rofl..

and if ur an apu...yea its easy to cave run solo...cus nrg goes thru walls if u can traget the mob..but wot about mc tanks?? huh??? or pc/rc spys??? i suppose hc tanks cud always use there male/doomie etc...

and the things with op worz wud be apu's wud be shit .... i know sum of u peepz think apu's can still op war without a ppu....my BOTTOM FLUFF!!!..i fought a clan of just apu's that wos around just after apu pa came out.. we fought them with no ppu's (tanks/spys/apus/pe's) (no ppus cus non where on) they must of had atleast 20 ppl cuming at us... about 7 got sniped by our snip0r dude.. others got fucking owned by tanks ... more got owned by apu's and then last but not least the fast pc pe's chased them and mother fucking PWNED them twhen they where running away.....and tbh... it took about 3 to 50 mins TOPS....no joke man.....(did i mention we pwned?)

ezza

30-07-04, 17:47

Ok Ill Say It Again In Capitals This Time

THEY WOULD TONE THE DAMAGE DOWN TO COMPENSATE FOR LACK OF PPUS

hahaha i pwn joo with my capitals

i got distracted while typing, had to do some work :D well they do pay me to do it so fair enough

Jest

30-07-04, 17:49

Ok Ill Say It Again In Capitals This Time

They Would Tone The Damage Down To Compensate For Lack Of Ppu.Seriously though if you are against a toning down of PPUs for mob purposes then you need to read the above and rethink your stance.

Birkoff

30-07-04, 17:54

shenten

30-07-04, 18:06

Well, gave that thing a little more thoughts :D

Ok , a while ago KK put in the following nerf: 50% shelter on foreign cast and 100% on selfcast.

Plainly stupid, this should have been the opposite !!! 50% selfcast, 100% foreign ? why ?

To make the PPU himself weaker !
Today the only man standing after a fight is the PPU. Having the abilities to heal, shelter, deflect people give the PPU a lot of power. The PPU should be weaker then in order for the team to take care of him ! Instead of fighting and thinking my PPU watch my back he can't (almost) be killed, so i just need to focus on my target. Fighters would have to think: doh ! where is the PPU ? Has everyone jumped on him ! :D PPU will become a harder class as it was way back, and you would see fewer of them too.

PPU is just too hard to kill regarding the power he has. Make him weaker, so others will see that having a ppu means you have to protect him. Yes he can buff,boost,heal you, but at a cost: you need to protect him. He can rezz you, but can die faster then a buffed tank. A Tank should be a tank, an APU should be a damage dealer: powerfull and weak. A PPU should be a healer: powerfull but weak too. He can heal himself, self buff him, that makes him stronger then a buffed APU, but not stronger then a buffed tank.

The problem lies in the fact that a PPU is kinda unkillable. Fix this, and you fix the game.

Thundra

30-07-04, 18:10

u must mean the outside area of mc5 and not the inside area. the inside area u have no chance as they kill u in miliseconds if u dont have a ppu and u cant hide form em as they will run round the corner eventually. kilin the stuff outside the main room hen yes it can be possible even if hard. inside not a chance

Jest

30-07-04, 18:11

Ok , a while ago KK put in the following nerf: 50% shelter on foreign cast and 100% on selfcast.Thats actually a pretty good idea as far as PPUs go, but you have to take into account that it would affect every single other class as well, especially the PE. A 50% nerfed shelter? No thanks. Itd be pretty tuff to balance that out.

Zaq

30-07-04, 18:21

shenten

30-07-04, 18:25

Thats actually a pretty good idea as far as PPUs go, but you have to take into account that it would affect every single other class as well, especially the PE. A 50% nerfed shelter? No thanks. Itd be pretty tuff to balance that out.

Are we talking about PE in this thread ? I'm talking about PPU ? You just do this with the PPU, that's all. I read remove PPU, not all PPU spells ? ;)

Dribble Joy

30-07-04, 18:34

Replace my near capped PPU with another near capped character of my choosing, with ALL available rares, and I MIGHT spend 2 seconds considering the idea.
And why do you have this ppu exactly?

shenten

30-07-04, 18:39

Whats the point in killing off PPUs? So you can "enjoy" PvP more? right....

Replace my near capped PPU with another near capped character of my choosing, with ALL available rares, and I MIGHT spend 2 seconds considering the idea.

Otherwise NO

I'm sorry, but you can give me : a capped DSed APU + a capped Herced Tank + a capped SAed spy with 20Mil NC on each, and i wont accept my PPU being removed. I play it from the start for mounths and mounths .. I dont play some f***ing SciFi Counter-strike, I play neocron and i play it as a PPU because I like it since the beginning.

james_finn

30-07-04, 18:43

God..... I wish you guys would stop bitching about the PPUs. I am a PPU and yeah I dont think that we are perfectly balenced, but we should find ways around it rather than

"OMG KOS1oenoeneone1 lets NERF TEH PPUS COZ TEHY STOP ALL THE PvPIUNG"

Because yeah we are slightly overpowered in that we are nearly invincible, but does anyone realise how harsh it is to actually level a PPU? I mean people who put up with the leveling and the now crappy dex exp, and crappy intel exp should be as hard to kill. Its not like we have a great offence too is it really?

Bah imagaine if there was no PPUs and then you guys wanted to speed level your character, how would you do it? Poison caves would be out of the question, Chaos caves would be much harder to complete, worm tunnels almost impossible, bat queen very hard to kill. So come on give us all a break, I think your ultimate aim is to stop people wanting to be PPUs due to the fact that we have to listen to this amount of bitching.

FFS stop it

Delphi

Ozzon

30-07-04, 19:12

It is so simple, just remove parashock and dmg boost in PvP.
PPU's could also use toning down of the holy heal.

KK pretty pretty please?

Dribble Joy

30-07-04, 19:26

Because yeah we are slightly overpowered in that we are nearly invincible, but does anyone realise how harsh it is to actually level a PPU?
Somewhat irreleveant, you can't argue that a ppus inability to lvl as fast as the others is a reason to keep ppus or thier current effect on PvP.

Bah imagaine if there was no PPUs and then you guys wanted to speed level your character, how would you do it? Poison caves would be out of the question, Chaos caves would be much harder to complete, worm tunnels almost impossible, bat queen very hard to kill.
Any removal/serious modification of ppus would require a serious change to mob hp/dmg, it can and has been done before.
Remeber beta, where there was no ppus?

(sorry if that sounded rude/condesending, just pointing out a few things.)

Regardless of anything, the effect PPUs have on PvP and hunting is profound to the extreme, one ppu on the side of 5 people could let them take on a dozen easily (if they know what they are doing), something needs to be done.
Either self cast shields or a 'back to beta' and removing all ppus spells (bar rez) above tl 40 or something.

RayBob

30-07-04, 19:32

... the effect PPUs have on PvP and hunting is profound to the extreme...something needs to be doneHere's my suggestion... http://neocron2.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=105031

james_finn

30-07-04, 19:44

Remeber beta, where there was no ppus.

Yes but you just said remember beta! Beta was the past and we have advanced since then, how many people would still play if it was like beta?

Either self cast shields or a 'back to beta' and removing all ppus spells (bar rez) above tl 40 or something.

And i suppose that you think that removing all high level PPU spells is the answer? That will bring back hybrids massively and we all know that you guys dont like Hybrids..... I know lets remove all monks, they've got silly Magic spells, they wont happen in the future!

Come on, removal of the spells will piss off a huge part of the server populations just so that yu can have what you consider is a balanced PvP aspect. If you dont like the way that PvP is at the moment then I say that wither you shouldnt PvP or that you should find yourself a friendly PPU. I myself wont PPU in Pepper Park unless I am really needed by my Clan, as I dont find it fun!

Delphi

MrTrip

30-07-04, 20:11

Yes but you just said remember beta! Beta was the past and we have advanced since then, how many people would still play if it was like beta?

And i suppose that you think that removing all high level PPU spells is the answer? That will bring back hybrids massively and we all know that you guys dont like Hybrids..... I know lets remove all monks, they've got silly Magic spells, they wont happen in the future!

Come on, removal of the spells will piss off a huge part of the server populations just so that yu can have what you consider is a balanced PvP aspect. If you dont like the way that PvP is at the moment then I say that wither you shouldnt PvP or that you should find yourself a friendly PPU. I myself wont PPU in Pepper Park unless I am really needed by my Clan, as I dont find it fun!

Delphi

Yes....there is no pleasing the neocron community. I see it this way...lets take a stroll into the future of DoY...

Patch (random number here) -

Removed PPU spells and all PPU skills. Replaced PPU skills with free skill points to distrobute into APU and such.

Added new APU spells to compensate for PPU spells.

Fixed random bugs...

The community moves on...but the ex ppu's are very very angry....and invest all those points to making themselfs better...

One month passes by and the forums are flooded with new topics,

REMOVE APUS ALL CHAOS.

Patch (next number) -

Removed APU class.

The community moves on.............the monks that are now gone have other characters...and are super...super...pissed.

The forums are flooded.... "REMOVE TANKS! OMG!!!!"

7 patches later we get this..

Patch (number) -

Removed Gen Tank class.

The community is done with this retarded game and its cry babies. 80% of the people leave the game and there are generally 20-30 people to a server.

ReaKKtor loses tons of money over all the people stopping their NC accounts.

The remaining community of PE's and Spy's are mad because Spys can kill PE's. ReaKKtor rips out their hair and shuts down the servers. The remaining people play the tutorial out where they can kill mutants and not be killed

:lol:

And that my friends is what happens after PPU's are removed. If you remove them you remove all classes that are "overpowered".

Juht

30-07-04, 20:20

Uhhh?

PPUs will NEVER be removed. Do you even know what removing PPUs means? It means that there will be NO passive modules. Because if you're not talking about removing passive modules, then you are talking about removing the Psi Monk class and the PSI skill-tree all together, which will also NEVER happen.

If either of those cases were to happen, what would it mean for the remaining classes? There would be NO self-healing save for med-kits and those only go so far, as everyone already knows. There would be NO buffs of any kind, defensive, tradeskill, combat, none.

You'd be reduced to damage dealing classes ONLY. PvM would be reduced to playing hide & seek with mobs. PvP would be a joke, mostly tanks and the few brave souls to hope to get the jump the tanks as a high dmg Spy, PE, or APU (if we're leaving aggressive modules alone).

Neocron is not Counter-Strike nor is it like any other game for that matter. Stop trying to change the fundamental elements of the game. Neocron is Neocron, live with it. It has an extremely dynamic, classful, PvP system. Just like any other classful game, the PPU plays a vital role in a well-rounded team. If you've forgotten what a well-rounded team is, or don't know what a team is all together, do a search for Team Fortress Classic tournament videos. A lot of the team strategy used in TFC can be applied to Neocron PvP, but Neocron takes it a step further with factions and roleplay.

Stop spamming the forums with useless complaints...

Crono

30-07-04, 20:26

There is no pleasing everyone. everyone has their own scuied oppinions of things. People complain weither a class is overpowered or not. And people will defend weither their overpowered or not.

I just wish people would stop being retarted and saying people shouldnt complain when there is an imbalance, they should just suck it up and deal. Thats a little far fetched. Another BS is saying that since something is harder to lvl they should be tougher ;p since most PPU's were APU's or hybrids till they caped then LOM'd to PPU and made up the last few lvls ;P

There will always be argurments weither right or wrong, im just getting tired or all these morons excesses for arguements then endded with a finilizing statement like nuff said like they made some profound point :P

Something ive recently come to realize, this games PvP will NEVER be balanced, its not Supposed to be balanced, each class has 1 type of role, dont expect to win as everything against something else. You want FUN PvP play a FPS thats has FUN PVP (IE, PVP that doesnt suck balls)

Doesnt mean their isnt imballances, PPU spells in non PPU hands will always be an issue. MMORPG PvP has always sucked ass, dont know why anyone is expecting something different here ;P

-Crono

Satine

30-07-04, 20:27

I come a bit late in this thread but I'm a player on Venus and I think that removing PPU will have the same consequences on every server, whether the latter is PvP- or RP-oriented.

I voted "No".

Of course some people are big "PPU consumers", meaning that when you have facing you 1 ubber-APU followed by 1 PPU, for example, you have no chance to win except if you're a whole group of person.

That's the "irritating" side of the invincible PPU.

On the other hand, it is very useful and without it there would be no caves, for example, and the OP fights would be slaughters (even though OP are sometimes boring BECAUSE of the PPU who's surviving and healing and raising everybody without losing any life).

So I'd rather prefer the PPU to be nerved : one should not nerve their exceptional resistance (invincible or so when capped), because that's their only way to enjoy the game and play more than 5 minutes without GR.
But one should nerve maybe the power of their spells... Maybe a player in the process of being healed and buffed should not be so resistant for so long. I dunno, there should be more obstacles not to the resistance, but to the power of remote spells.

james_finn

30-07-04, 20:42

I want to say thank you to Mr Trip! That is so what would happen to Cron if PPUs were removed. And I too am fed up of the whine'ing community that is the neocron community. Just enjoy the game and stop posting all this rubbish.

Delphi

Shadow Dancer

30-07-04, 21:01

I wish KK would let us know their stance on PPUs. I wish KK would actually use the test server to you know test stuff. Instead of just using it as a "ok, before we put this into retail" server. 95% of the stuff on test server makes it to retail.

How about using it to test different methods of balancing ppus? I like the idea of using it to test self/cast shields. I wish KK would try that.

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 21:12

hmm no. just no.
ever PvPed without a PPU?

[ edited ]

james_finn

30-07-04, 21:22

Learn to get around the PPU. You are a bit of a sad case if you cant PvP whenever you see a PPU (No offence) but come on PPUs are in the game, LIVE WITH IT! We are here because KK believes that its a fun class to play, and FYI its not especially when all we ever fucking see on the forums is NERF THE PPUS THEY SPOIL OUR FUN, FFS think about the poor people that play PPUs. Thats the problem with this forum everyone is so self centred.

Delphi

RayBob

30-07-04, 21:22

I wish KK would actually use the test server to you know test stuff...How about using it to test different methods of balancing ppus?No shit. I would love to test my "make everyone a hybrid" idea. It would be pretty easy to do. They already have the ability to change any individual skill (I think GMs have 255 in all skills, or something silly like that) so they would just have to change PPU so that spies, tanks, and APUs could use blessed level shelter (although not at capped percentage) and heal. Let people have some OP fights and see what happens. Maybe it's a dumb idea but for God's sake try stuff.

amfest

30-07-04, 21:24

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 21:24

[ edited ]

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 21:26

Noodle

30-07-04, 21:30

yes i cant pvp when i get DB / Para / PPU heals other guy
try having fun PVP with that

i actually got a PE the other day when he had a PPU doing all that :lol:

james_finn

30-07-04, 21:32

Actually I do, I have a tank and I enjoy PvPing as much as the next guy, Just stop with all this bullshit about Removing PPUs

Delphi

TheGreatMilenko

30-07-04, 21:33

i actually got a PE the other day when he had a PPU doing all that :lol:

oooo musta been fun
.... :mad:

Crono

30-07-04, 21:33

[ edited ]

Yea man i feel that. Many post here and dont play because they hate hopw the gameplay is :P

When all thats leaft to do is PvP cause there is 0 content leaft, many realize there is like 100 other games better suited at that 1 PvP aspect :P
Since there is no more RPG leaft :/

-Crono

Shadow Dancer

30-07-04, 21:48

i actually got a PE the other day when he had a PPU doing all that :lol:

Yeaaaa ok. We're talking about people with decent skill.

I'd *love* to see any 2 people(none of which are a ppu) try and take me and a ppu down. You know, since ppus are completely balanced and you can win without one...right? :rolleyes:

james_finn

30-07-04, 21:54

shadow i agree with you that we are unbalanced, but I DONT THINK THAT THE ONLY OPTION LEFT IS TO REMOVE THE PPUS!

There is other ways around it.

Delphi

Shadow Dancer

30-07-04, 21:56

shadow i agree with you that we are unbalanced, but I DONT THINK THAT THE ONLY OPTION LEFT IS TO REMOVE THE PPUS!

There is other ways around it.

Delphi

Except KK needs to actually do something, instead of the "KK" method of waiting 5 years and letting the problem grow then one day using a sledgehammer.

RayBob

30-07-04, 22:07

To those of you that have played lots of other MMORPGs...tell me about the healer class in that game. Is it balanced? I have only heard from one friend that played a lot of DAoC and he tells me that the healer is usually the person everyone wants to kill first—for a lot of the same reasons they are a problem in Neocron.

I just think the entire healer class is wrong. I understand that some people enjoy playing support roles but in a game with a PvP focus, I don't see any way the healer class can be balanced.

The majority of us enjoy how Neocron PvP requires skill. I think having every class as a hybrid would increase the skill required to play well.

MrTrip

02-08-04, 03:22

Before I let this thread slip into the masses...I would like to end on this note,

Real life is not balanced. Why should a video game be? Are we mad at life for not being balanced so we demand that a video game be to make ourselfs feel better?

I was just thinking about how REALLY unbalanced Neocron is. If people want it to be like real life or whatever...heres how it would go.

Grenades would kill you one hit. Come on...I would like to see you drop a grenade at your feet and walk away with half hit points and all limbs in tact.

Sure I can take 9 hits from a rocket launcher....NO PROBLEM...Let me just throw up my shelter and deflector...wait...I don't have one...FUCK.

Hey! I'm new to the game...oh look its a spider! *knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife knife* Whoah....that spider was tough....hey why am I almost dead? OH GOD A ROACH *dead* O_o

OH MY GOD ITS A WARBOT WITH ROCKETS AND CRAP! X_X AND HERE I AM WITH NO ARMOR! I can take him on! I'm uber!!!!...uh oh here comes a rocket 8|

Oh no here comes Ted the Tank.....hes real badass....Oh he has a grenade....uh oh :eek: Phew....I managed to absorb the explosion with my face. Everything is cool I only lost 10 hit points.

OH GOD ITS A FLAME THROWER! Oh wait never mind I'm safe! :D I can get shot in the face with one and only lose 2 hit points, and I can still open my mouth! :lol:

I HAVE A KNIFE NOW! I CAN STAB THINGS! HA TAKE THAT SEWER BEES!....wait how the hell am I stabbing sewer bees? O_o

Now what the hell....I started NC and started getting some really awesome weapons and thought Wow...I am going to ********...but then realized that I can throw a grenade at a player and the worst it will do is piss him off and he calls his clan buddies to kill me.

Now before you go off flaming me for this post and crap just think...if you wanted NC to be balanced like real life...this game would suck ass. The way it is now IS balanced. It DOES give everybody a chance to excel. You are just mad that some players are better then you and demand that they play with the handicaps of a newbie who does not even know where his crouch button is. :lol:

QuantumDelta

02-08-04, 03:34

I have browser problems at the moment ..preventing me from making long posts... and I wont post back to back, so, ...simply put;
Trip, you need to start playing neocron Patch #200.

MrTrip

02-08-04, 03:43

I have been playing 200. I have been playing since before hybrids got nerfed, all the way up to now. I have played Retail AND Test.

Zaq

02-08-04, 09:36

And why do you have this ppu exactly?

Why?

So my clan can get MC5 chips
So the APUs in my clan can actually level
So I can give the constructors in my clan CST3 boost
So I can take my clan to the bat cave to get Bat imps whenever someone needs some.
So I can help someone do their biotech epic without getting pwned by DOY bots
So I can help anyone do their epic who needs to kill a runner of a certain faction.

etc. etc.

I like helping people, get the picture? probably why most people play ppus

and finally - so when the dicks in this game attack my clan we have a good chance of fighting back.

Zaq

02-08-04, 09:38

I'm sorry, but you can give me : a capped DSed APU + a capped Herced Tank + a capped SAed spy with 20Mil NC on each, and i wont accept my PPU being removed. I play it from the start for mounths and mounths .. I dont play some f***ing SciFi Counter-strike, I play neocron and i play it as a PPU because I like it since the beginning.

I agree absolutely. Like I said, I would consider it for 2 seconds :p

Darkener

02-08-04, 09:53

lol no way could you imagine the ops they would last 2 secs and then everyone would need pokes

GambitFlame

02-08-04, 09:56

I know my opinion dont count for much ;) but i actually said (for the first time ever) yes.

Ive noticed that the reliance on PPU's is huge and tbh if the ppu sucks then the people will die faster so why have them at all (btw ask anyone, I suck as a PPU :lol: )

phunqe

02-08-04, 10:02

On a side note... PSI is NOT magic...

If I'm recalling it correctly, the term "spell" is even used by players only. If you look in game they are called "psi modules" (?).

PSI has nothing to do with magic. Not in real life, not in the game. At least not how we perceive and define the word "magic".

In other games like L2, now that is is magic.

ino

02-08-04, 10:20

Just a quick question after reading somethings.

Why is it that ppl cant accept the fact that a good player with a good ppu isnt killable solo? a good ppu with a good matey even with just heal can kill pretty much whatever in pvp if the other side is solo.

Why do some ppl have to be able to kill everything solo? why is it that the ppu who does what he is created for to protect and enhance the team matey with him is all of a sudden so damn overpowered?. Yes unfair to use a ppu in a one on one fight but thats not the issue.

Why cant the uber leet pvp killzor ppl just live with the fact you might be good but if you meet a good team ppu/class you will probably most likely get your ass handed to you just the way it should be. You can take out bad ppu's and a teammate alone but not one that knows what he's doing and has a team mate who does what the ppu wants him to do. I just dont get it. I might understand the big group fight complains about the ppu's importance but I cant see what there is to argue about in skrimish pvp if you get you ass handed to you.

I do understand the frustration about some "lame" person bringing a ppu to skirmish fights, that in my oppinion isnt the ppu's role.. If they get jumped then it's his role but dont whine afterwards that you lost.