View Full Version : Spirit mod alteration
Dribble Joy
29-07-04, 08:27
Ok, this isn't a nerf (as such), but a change.
Now, personnally I HATE the spirit mod, it should never have been introduced, but it is with us now, and we are stuck with it.
As it stands the spirit mod fucks PvP in several ways, it's been discussed over and over, blah blah blerghuhjbnbnfff...
So, vague and probably shite alteration born of my beer addled mind.
Change it to a DB effect.
If possible, two stacks so it can't be dissmissed too easily.
Maybe slightly more powerfull db than a normal one, dunno.
An SH hit by a spirit mod still does nearly 90+ dmg to a self buffed, capped piercing PE, a couple of snipers with SH/HL and long range DB could be usefull.
//edit, dammit, not a poll.
{MD}GeistDamnit
29-07-04, 08:29
just make it remove deflect in stead of shelter , like it used to be. problem solved.
HatchetRyda
29-07-04, 08:31
just make it remove deflect in stead of shelter , like it used to be. problem solved.
How about people stop bitching, then problem solved.. And DJ you said you don't even PvP, what the hell dose it matter to you?
Just, STFU with all this whineing about everything in the game, don't like it quit the game or don't PvP or don't take out your god damn LE, problem solved!!!!
... Some one is a little prissy today.
The spirit mod is unbalanced atm; Having it remove deflector like it did befor makes it still valuable but not essential.
Shadow Dancer
29-07-04, 08:41
makes it still valuable but not essential.
Unlike ppus. :p
Anyhoo, I think the spirit mod is absolutely fine.
HatchetRyda has a spirit mod :p
anyway, if it gets changed back to removing deflector again, then they need to change it so it does the dmg before the deflector is away. if not its overpowered again.
Mmmm well I have never been debuffed by it more then once, But from what I hear clan X is unstopable in op wars on pluto because they have 3 spys with spirit mods. It should be valuable but the last thing I think any of us want to do is start clinging to it like we do our ppus :p
As I see Spirit mods at the moment, they are fine. The number of them are fairly low. And, this might be because (the lack ?) of my skills or fps i get, but it is not so easy in a OP fight to sit down, aim, and get a clear shot to ppu, or any other char in the matter.
Usually people do tend to run around in OP fights :) and the worst situation is that you end up desheltering your own clanmates (colored/faction logo PAs could help). Also the time spy takes to get a shot (god, if he misses.. the rof is horrible) gives more than enough time for enemys to take down the spy. It only needs one offensive player to shoot a spy few times and spy has to move (stealth, run , whatever) thus the desheltering is actually very hard thing to do.
Ofcourse there is situations where spy can snipe from far away, not worrying about enemys breathing down their neck. And those nasty spys who run among the enemys, in close combat, using their SH... (but that is very hard also... aiming + low rof + u get hit alot usually ends up with dead spy).
The spirit mod last i heard is no longer able to be aqquired which is a little shitty for people who have moved servers and have no chance of getting one O_o
Spirit mods would be fine if they were more readily available but they arent.
In some cases, entire clans have them and in other cases some clans dont have any - which *heavily* swings the balance in a pvp orientated game.
Singly they arent too much of a problem - but when 2 are used in combination with capped apu antibuffs - it pretty much kills everything *very* quickly.
As an example:
We know X have at least 2 spirit mods, and Y have none - Fair enough and kudos to X for getting them.
Having one or two spies who can insta debuff the enemies that leaves a UG INSTANTLY is such a strong tactic - it's just an instant op war killer.
This is especially true if the UG is being barrelled or aoe'd. As soon as you appear you die. Especially with a long sync you can forget about surviving.
At least with antibuff you can see the large yellow ball of light and then zone or prepare to try and get your buffs back up etc
The obvious way around this for the defending team is to come from another gr (which is fine when they arent all locked lol - but i digress) but then the attacking team are again fodder for rifle spirit spies as they run up to the op.
Now X are practiced players and pretty much all capped - and know how to deploy spirit mod players, so you can see it becomes 100 times harder to defend or attack an op.
The best defence in this case would be for the clan with no Spirit mods to get some and even the balance - but with no more dropping, its a permanent bonus to clan X which there's nothing to help balance it other than doubling their numbers in a war and zerg them to death - which no clan wants.
So either the spirit mod needs to be made more readily available or it needs changing. Otherwise the balance on some servers between some clans is very very skewed.
Shadow Dancer
29-07-04, 10:04
I agree Evs. They should be made more available.
they need to become more rare, not more available.
the PPUs are players too, the game is supposed to be enjoyable for them also. being instantly antibuffed fucks up the fun (i know ur gonna say, oooh, but parashock does the same), especially if a PE and a spy is working together, the spy just keeps shooting and eventually the PE gets his shelter on you. then you have no way out. now if we had 3 rifle spies on each side, all equipped with spirit SHs, it would royally suck.
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 10:35
It should drop from the level three tunnels, rarely along side the bullets.
As it stands, it never causes me any problems *ever*
they need to become more rare, not more available.
the PPUs are players too, the game is supposed to be enjoyable for them also. being instantly antibuffed fucks up the fun (i know ur gonna say, oooh, but parashock does the same), especially if a PE and a spy is working together, the spy just keeps shooting and eventually the PE gets his shelter on you. then you have no way out. now if we had 3 rifle spies on each side, all equipped with spirit SHs, it would royally suck.
Thing is, in hindsight - this is true - but at the state of play as it is, It's either 'even it up' or 'nerf'.
I hate the 'n' word, so even it up seems to be the only option available.
Also ppu's can recast shelter's on themselves quickly anyway - for a good ppu to be taken down, they need to have a co-ordinated attack on them from several enemies, in which a PPU *should* go down.
PPU's are a support class, and not a 'PPU vs The World' class.
The reason spirit mods are so good is that they help destroy grunts in warfare.
They arent really ppu killers due to the ROF they have.
There's been many a clanwar when everyones dead bar the ppu(s) - and then its down to whether they try and rezz/cover or whether they run and save themselves.
Spirit mods enable this scenario to happen much more....
You are right on some points evs, but, lets imagine we have an OP fight. one side has 2 decent PPUs, the other has one really good one. both sides have a spirit mod spy. sound good yes? one good ppu can be as effective as 2 decent ones, so both sides have an equal chance of winning.
However, the side with 2 ppus will win, because the spirit mod spy can follow the ppu, acting as a close combat fighter. just antibuffing all the time. if the spy does that, the ppu cannot take care of his teammates, no matter what.
and yes, its a real scenario :(
/edit
I guess my point is, if spirit SHs got used as sniper rifles, ie long range, it wouldnt be a problem, but atm, its being used almost exclusively for close combat, which is not what its intended for.
You are right on some points evs, but, lets imagine we have an OP fight. one side has 2 decent PPUs, the other has one really good one. both sides have a spirit mod spy. sound good yes? one good ppu can be as effective as 2 decent ones, so both sides have an equal chance of winning.
However, the side with 2 ppus will win, because the spirit mod spy can follow the ppu, acting as a close combat fighter. just antibuffing all the time. if the spy does that, the ppu cannot take care of his teammates, no matter what.
and yes, its a real scenario :(
/edit
I guess my point is, if spirit SHs got used as sniper rifles, ie long range, it wouldnt be a problem, but atm, its being used almost exclusively for close combat, which is not what its intended for.
Well if a spirit mod was used in close combat, then the op war captains 1st shout would be to drop the spirit mod user :)
I dont think spirit modder's are that lethal in closeup combat at all - at distance from a stealthing sniping spy is when they are evil.
But yeah, if a clan only has one ppu at an opwar - it should be destroyed pretty easily anyway - 1 apu antibuff and a melee tank would do the job very quickly.
Either way, something needs to be done i think !
I disagree.
This should remain a rare rare. However due to certain problems it's not as rare as intended :rolleyes:
o_O
Original monk
29-07-04, 11:31
However due to certain problems it's not as rare as intended :rolleyes:
o_O
always the same shit with neocron and rare items
remembers me of kamichips & terminators and ultima's
Dribble Joy
29-07-04, 11:31
In my view, the spirit mod was the wrong way of tackling the problem of over reliance on PPUs.
PPU reliance must be tackled at the root, the PPUs themselves, and personnaly this means the you-know-what shields theory.
Original monk
29-07-04, 11:35
In my view, the spirit mod was the wrong way of tackling the problem of over reliance on PPUs.
PPU reliance must be tackled at the root, the PPUs themselves, and personnaly this means the you-know-what shields theory.
selfcasted shields ?
so instead of altering a spiritmod it would be easier to make ppu's useless ?
or make em level3 buff and rezzurect robots or sumthing ?
i dunno
imo, its pretty hard being a ppu nowadays, constantly watching your buffs, watching the skies for anti-heal drones, spirit mod rifles... its all enough to make you paranoid.
personally i hate normal anti shelter/spirit mod compared to the normal antibuff, not because the likelyhood of me dying, but the fact it completely fucks up buff timings, so instead of rebuffing every 2 mins, your now having to rebuff every 1 minute, and thats just fucked up...
if your going to make spirit mods as lethal as that, why not go the whole way and strip deflector aswell...
Va Va Voom!
29-07-04, 11:41
I gota agree with Jester on this one , as a fellow sniper. STFU i dont even have a sprit mod and i see the need for it to be there. go whine about para or sumthing
I like the fact that they are rare, one of the few things which have some use and are not owned by everyone.
I like the fact that they are rare, one of the few things which have some use and are not owned by everyone.
i know a certain few clans, on a certain few servers have more than 1, all it takes is 2/3 to make a clan near enough unstoppable.
s mods needs to be dropped.. make them rare as hell, but still. if there is one in the game, there should be possibility to get one.
Spirit mod is fine there are jsut to many of them out there IMO.
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 12:16
Why not make some rare junk around the various other buildings in the mc5 zones, each piece of junk from each building (meaning you have to rotate)
When you recycle them, you get a spirit ammo mod? :rolleyes:
I've never myself encountered a Spirit Mod armed spy, but aren't those spies really easy to kill? Surely they cannot run around shooting and they have to pause to fire.
As soon as one or two attackers spot him surely he will be down?
I've never myself encountered a Spirit Mod armed spy, but aren't those spies really easy to kill? Surely they cannot run around shooting and they have to pause to fire.
no they arent, yes they can and no they dont.
You dont want Spirit mods more avaliable... Cause if there are, I'm gonna use it in PP when I'm fighting someone. You wont be able to get away from it. I think it needs to be changed back to removing deflector, even if only to give a use to the low tech PE :rolleyes:
The last thing I want is more of the damn things on the server. I hope they never drop again.
lolz, if anyone and their mother had a spirit mod, no point being a ppu anymore, all you would ever need is an apu and a spy :p
Jesterthegreat
29-07-04, 17:03
i play either a HC tank or a droner spy... so it doesnt effect me (used on me or by me) so i may be biased...
however i see no problem with it as it is... i hate the massive specialisation in the game, and needing an APU to kill a PPU is bad... SH + TL 25 Shelter gives you a chance if you lack an APU. it doesnt make it certain but it gives you a chance.
alot of the good PE's i have fought can recast shelter in battle anyway, PPU's can throw on a heal and recast, and it helps even the odds against PPU buffed opponants.
just make it pass through shelter and deflect, because its annoying as hell when im in a duel, as soon as it starts the other spy pulls out a spirit SH, takes away my shelter then brings out something like a rog or HL and owns me.
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 17:22
just make it pass through shelter and deflect, because its annoying as hell when im in a duel, as soon as it starts the other spy pulls out a spirit SH, takes away my shelter then brings out something like a rog or HL and owns me.
Rebuff? 8|
I hate those things. Spirit SH/HL is pure evil. Also the fact that some clans got loads of em, others got none and NO chance to still get one is just plain stupid.
For example synching out of the UG is enough to get killed now. Its not like you see an APU casting an antibuff, no your shelter just dissapears while you are stuck in a synch. Or in the middle of a fight. Its pretty hard to watch out for one SH hit while you are fighting someone, getting hit by HL/CS/whatever. And still, if you get it that you got hit, mostly its too late then anyway.
Never shouldve been introduced.
Dribble Joy
29-07-04, 17:25
Rebuff? 8|
By the time you have recasted shelter (as a PE) you will have little or no hp left.
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 17:26
By the time you have recasted shelter (as a PE) you will have little or no hp left.
No way, you just run around in a small circle like a PPU does when using the lower rezz- makes you fucking solid to hit.
Dribble Joy
29-07-04, 17:31
I have never been able to move at all when casting shelter, after an SH hit and 2 seconds of casting or more while being shot in the face with a HL will leave me with fuck all hp or kill me easily.
Leave the mod alone.
Make the SH unavalible for PEs.
Nerf drugs.
And it will give the DEX speccing rifle spy a place in PvP.
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 17:33
I have never been able to move at all when casting shelter, after an SH hit and 2 seconds of casting or more while being shot in the face with a HL will leave me with fuck all hp or kill me easily.
Are you sure? I have 110 psi use, and 75 PPU on my PE + 5 slot shelter with max frequancy.
I can run in a circle, not a huge circle, but more than enough to avoid being hit.
Dribble Joy
29-07-04, 17:35
I have 77 psu, dunno if my shelter is arti freq though..
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 17:36
I have 77 psu, dunno if my shelter is arti freq though..
Try it, takes practice but I know many who can, -=Blade=-, Daisuki, Fawkes, DigestiveBiscuit.
Try it, takes practice but I know many who can, -=Blade=-, Daisuki, Fawkes, DigestiveBiscuit.
To bad PEs are shite in PvP anyways. :O
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 18:45
To bad PEs are shite in PvP anyways. :O
Well yeah :)
make ppu's useless? or make em level3 buff and rezzurect robots or sumthing ?
Great idea. 5 stars.
Clownst0pper
29-07-04, 19:10
Great idea. 5 stars.
ROFL hivemind you make me piss with your hatred of monks. :lol:
My idea about foreign cast would r0xx0rz!
Blessed and Holy Shelter foreign only!
Btw. Kao you stupid kim, stop stealing my sig design... :wtf:
Lucid Dream
29-07-04, 21:03
If you switch spirit SH to anti-deflector, it will be even more of a ppu killer then before. It would remove shelter, and then give a ppu a full hit from 1200 piercing damage, instantly. Each shot takes away nearly half health, even if the PPU is completely fully buffed.
Damage boost... I must say an interesting idea, so long as the damage boost it gives is much better then a DB a PE can get to.. it would be pretty shit for me to have spent all the money i did on a weapon, just so that I can have something that does what PEs can normally do at a farther range..
Spirit mod is highly overpowered. Kill the spy? no, he will just stealth. You waste time going after him and you've been killed by another class as he stealths away.
The problem is it doesn't just overpower a certain class, it overpowers certain players. A clan that has a few of these mods in use, versus a clan with none, makes it much more overbalanched. And unlike ppus, where the clan can just recruit a ppu, the spirit mod can not just be "added" into the clan.
Spirit mod is highly overpowered. Kill the spy? no, he will just stealth. You waste time going after him and you've been killed by another class as he stealths away.
The problem is it doesn't just overpower a certain class, it overpowers certain players. A clan that has a few of these mods in use, versus a clan with none, makes it much more overbalanched. And unlike ppus, where the clan can just recruit a ppu, the spirit mod can not just be "added" into the clan.
Stealth doesn't mean he's suddenly unkillable...
Clownst0pper
30-07-04, 01:25
My idea about foreign cast would r0xx0rz!
Blessed and Holy Shelter foreign only!
Btw. Kao you stupid kim, stop stealing my sig design... :wtf:
I have? :eek: My brother added my characters names and size text!
I have? :eek: My brother added my characters names and size text!
Ah, now it's allign right.
Thanks :O
Rebuff? 8|
im a spy, time to rebuff during duels is short :p and anyways if i did he could just pull the sh out and do it again.
Personally I never thought the spirit mod should remove any buffs but should bypass them thus doing extra damage.
Personally I never thought the spirit mod should remove any buffs but should bypass them thus doing extra damage.
just make it pass through shelter and deflect, because its annoying as hell when im in a duel, as soon as it starts the other spy pulls out a spirit SH, takes away my shelter then brings out something like a rog or HL and owns me
i agree :p
Heh I got bored after the first couple of posts and just posted what I think it should do so I didnt know anybody else had posted it.
TheGreatMilenko
30-07-04, 03:26
ill love any idea as long as it involves PPU being removed
OMFG a spy gets something sweet and you wanna fuck it up on them, OMFG a spy can kill a ppu now. that isnt allowed... No fuck that shit god damnit.
I say have it take off Shelter and Deflector.
Its much harder for a spy to hit someone in an OP war with it then an apu can with an antibuff.
The Spirit modded SH i have is the only fun I have in this game now don't take that away from me damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop trying to have KK nerf shit better yet let them fix this fucking game
Its much harder for a spy to hit someone in an OP war
you are joking arent you?
learn to aim perhaps?
Clownst0pper
30-07-04, 11:34
OMFG a spy gets something sweet and you wanna fuck it up on them, OMFG a spy can kill a ppu now. that isnt allowed... No fuck that shit god damnit.
I say have it take off Shelter and Deflector.
Its much harder for a spy to hit someone in an OP war with it then an apu can with an antibuff.
The Spirit modded SH i have is the only fun I have in this game now don't take that away from me damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop trying to have KK nerf shit better yet let them fix this fucking game
Thats not really a mature approach...
I encountered a spirit mod last night in a different context, in Pepper Park, the spy was using it point blank range, and it really was a pain in the arse.
I really think when you fire on a target, and it removes there shelter, it should remove yours as well. At least that way its more "spirit-ish"
Original monk
30-07-04, 12:10
Great idea. 5 stars.
thanx ! :P
altough that wasnt quite what i meant :)
but ya sure made youre point clear :) -> ya can vote here (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=104984)
Jesterthegreat
30-07-04, 12:59
No way, you just run around in a small circle like a PPU does when using the lower rezz- makes you fucking solid to hit.
agree'd this is entirely possible.
OMFG a spy gets something sweet and you wanna fuck it up on them, OMFG a spy can kill a ppu now. that isnt allowed... No fuck that shit god damnit.
I say have it take off Shelter and Deflector.
Its much harder for a spy to hit someone in an OP war with it then an apu can with an antibuff.
The Spirit modded SH i have is the only fun I have in this game now don't take that away from me damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop trying to have KK nerf shit better yet let them fix this fucking game
Im having fun playing one of my overpowered melee tanks but that doesnt mean that they arent overpowered, fixing the game means balancing it and spirit mods arent balanced.
you are joking arent you?
learn to aim perhaps?
Read the whole line before stating something.
Its easier for an APU to hit you with an antibuff then it is for a spy to hit you with a SH in a 20 person op war
Read the whole line before stating something.
Its easier for an APU to hit you with an antibuff then it is for a spy to hit you with a SH in a 20 person op warSH up close is pretty much instant aim lock. Plus one shot doesnt take several seconds, it doesnt eat up most of your psi pool and it hasnt got a big fat discoball going "OMG YOUR GETTING ANTIBUFFED, GET READY FOR A NEW SHELTER, ONLY 5 SECONDS TO GO TILL ITS GONE!"
Did i say anything about it being noticed? No, i was talking about aim.
Now for the other hand of it being noticed, fuck no its not. And if you have a silencer on it you wont even know you lost a shelter until its to late.
This only takes more skill for the ppus to learn the people who has these mods in there SH and to no there enemy. It takes more tactices and will make a better ppu out of that person.
This sickens me, i've scrolled down this damn forum and i see half the posts are about nerfing. Just stfu about nerfing and allow KK to fucking fix this god damn FRE game ffs
This sickens me, i've scrolled down this damn forum and i see half the posts are about nerfing. Just stfu about nerfing and allow KK to fucking fix this god damn FRE game ffs
the spirit mod is a huge fucking ppu nerf, so you take part in it too...
and how kind of you to train the poor PPUs who cant play their class right...
why'd you quote my last statement and say nothing about it :-p
And a lot of people that we fight against loves to fight us because we bring fun back into the game to the bigger clans on saturn. Even though we have 3 spys with 3 5 slotted Spirit modded SHs :-p
the spirit mod is a huge fucking ppu nerf, so you take part in it too...
and how kind of you to train the poor PPUs who cant play their class right...Its not only a PPU nerf, it hits all classes. Especially in opfights. Very funny if you fully buff a tank, he runs in to try to kill someone just to find out he lost his shelter as soon as he entered tho op entrance and is now going to die.
Like every other char who enters the op.
PPUs are the ones with the least problems about this actually.
I see it as a way of fighting the PPUs massive effect on PvP. Bringing a rifle spy to a OP war might actually be a good idea finally.
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