View Full Version : My huge idea for balance.
In sometime after BDOY.
An op battle can only be declared, when there is only 1 clan in the zone, when an op battle is declared, via hacking of the 1st barrier the zone is locked off where no other clans apart from the opponent clan can enter the zone or people belonging to the defending clan. If however there are two or more foreign clans during hacking, the hacking will not work, thus preventing clans to work together, at least not in the same fight.
* added: The attacking clan cannot have more then 13 people in the op fight zone, and neither can the defending clan.
Third barrier cannot be breached unless defending clan has at least 5 or more people, however if the op battle is engaged, where as as long as the enemy clan stays in the zone for 3 hours then the op is automatically won.
A clan can only engage in multiple opfights at one time, however the third barrier breach by 3 hours only works on 1 op at a time, from the first op the clan has engaged and so on. The zone lock will be disengaged once the barrier systems have been restored by the defending clan.
OPs will now give bonuses to clan members in the clan apartment.
The special forces chip will be given the ability to see stealth.
A pistol speed range nerf will be given (moving slower, not as much as rifles, plus pistols shoot too far right now) , the cannons will get all round boost by 10-20%.
Spies can now fire in stealth. (face it stealth is a useless tool for fighitng at the moment apart from running away) The stealth will be disengaged once the spy is hit by any random weapon, e.g aoe, melee or whatever.
Antistealth will have increased range and duration. So the ppu/apu team will not be neglected.
PEs will be given jet packs, that allow them to fight air to air, and air to ground, also a device, called "the tracer" marks a nav ray to the position of a person you enter the name, if he is in the same zone.
Spirit mod bullets will be removed, antibuff is an APU speciality.
Thats pretty much it, I think the odds will be pretty even then, melee will no longer be too over powered, no more instant debuff, PES are balanced as scouts and air support, spies have a use more then hack in op fights, apus debuff, ppus are ppus, tanks do the most raw damage, and most of all PEs/Spies will be needed just as much as tanks/monks to see stealth.
I see role
PE: Air support, crap fighter, but can see stealth and hack and find specific enemies, in other words king of soloing.
Spies: Vehicle driver, hack, stealth, very good soloer and tradeskiller
Tanks: AoE, Best Damage head to head, must have for damage output and raw defences
APUs: Second best damage, Can debuff others, team will lose without them
PPUs: Everything.
Zerging won't exist as it does today, and the problems with op fighting in general would be fixed, giving a fair chance to all, no longer will we be hindered by neutral allies or such 1v1 clan fights are in everyones knowledge the most enjoyable.
Pistols nerfed?
Firing in stealth?
Spirit mods taken away?
omff g lol
back to the drawing board champ
Here's my idea for game balance:
Remove monks.
I think the focus should be more on the clan than the faction, and it looks like DoY will support that. Your idea won't stop zerging, it will just make superclans a necessity and leave small clans completely incapable of fighting for an OP.
I can't see stealthed spies shooting people being remotely balanced outside of these OP wars. What about solo Tanks, APUs, or hybrids? If it was changed into camouflage more than stealth then yes, I could see it working. Make it distort the spy's appearance and reduce the speed at which the reticle closes when targetting the spy, also make the spy's hitbox when camouflaged smaller. If this was done though I'd say make the tool a glove instead, so that the spy can't use Psi while comouflaged. It would be fairly balanced that way IMO.
Spirit mods being removed I'm not sure I agree with. Removing spirit mods on their own isn't a very good idea - we need to remove the reliance on monks, and especially PPUs if OP wars are going to be made more fun. Spirit mods aren't the best solution to that problem but they are at least something. I would say take them away if a rework of PPUs is included.
I also can't see anything there that will suddenly turn PEs into crap fighters.
Finally, I'm not sure I like the idea of making the bonuses apply globally. I think they should be applied at full strength in the clan apartment, and a little weaker nearby to the clan apt (so TTs get their bonuses when in VR, CA in Plaza, CM in MB etc), as well as making them apply over a few sectors around the OP rather than only at the OP itself. But a global bonus would be a bad idea IMO, making the superclans which hold the fortresses even more powerful and the other clans even weaker.
I think the focus should be more on the clan than the faction, and it looks like DoY will support that. Your idea won't stop zerging, it will just make superclans a necessity and leave small clans completely incapable of fighting for an OP.
I can't see stealthed spies shooting people being remotely balanced outside of these OP wars. What about solo Tanks, APUs, or hybrids? If it was changed into camouflage more than stealth then yes, I could see it working. Make it distort the spy's appearance and reduce the speed at which the reticle closes when targetting the spy, also make the spy's hitbox when camouflaged smaller. If this was done though I'd say make the tool a glove instead, so that the spy can't use Psi while comouflaged. It would be fairly balanced that way IMO.
Spirit mods being removed I'm not sure I agree with. Removing spirit mods on their own isn't a very good idea - we need to remove the reliance on monks, and especially PPUs if OP wars are going to be made more fun. Spirit mods aren't the best solution to that problem but they are at least something. I would say take them away if a rework of PPUs is included.
I also can't see anything there that will suddenly turn PEs into crap fighters.
Finally, I'm not sure I like the idea of making the bonuses apply globally. I think they should be applied at full strength in the clan apartment, and a little weaker nearby to the clan apt (so TTs get their bonuses when in VR, CA in Plaza, CM in MB etc), as well as making them apply over a few sectors around the OP rather than only at the OP itself. But a global bonus would be a bad idea IMO, making the superclans which hold the fortresses even more powerful and the other clans even weaker.
As far as i'm concerned big clans are the way to go, there is no reason small clans should be able to ally up into 7 clans from different factions. If small clans are small then they should no really be holding ops anyway apart from the occasionaly try. Also this prevents the common problem of super clans ganging up. I'm all for if the opponent clan has more fighters, then we lose, but I don't like it if they are losing and they bring in another clan.
Spirit bullets are too much of an easy way to killing people with shelter, plus stealthed spies with spirit SHs will be ridiculously overpowered. Also I happen to believe that tanks can use AoE to disengage stealthers, and apus will they shouldn't be hanging out alone. If Spies snipe in stealth in the wasteland, then its completely right by all means, don't find somewhere to hide then you die.
Yes I now realise the global attributes is a stupid idea. In the teamplay situation the PE is easily the weakest fighter. I think I'm going to remove that global attributes thing change it to your suggestion
Here's my idea for game balance:
Remove monks.
ROFL, sadly Monks are the monkey wrench in balance ><
-Crono
Clownst0pper
28-07-04, 08:35
Here's my idea for game balance:
Remove monks.
Ohhh controversial, but fundermentally flawed :rolleyes:
Pretty good, despite a couple flaws..
Clans would merge to be big in op wars.. perhaps a limit.. like 10+3 where the 3 is the 3hackers. So total of 13-15 per side would be nice. That + your idea closing the zone = good and equal fights. And perhaps the whole OP zone should have security that when one of opposing clan enters the zone, would launch alarm. I quess that would be bad idea since it would be so easy to distract ppl, or making "false alarms".
Perhaps better would be making the OPs a large settlement, which to enter you would need to breach door or hack it, and if hacked lets say it would have 30% chance to make a silent hack and no alarm would be sent until the first layer / turret was taken down. And not to make drastic changes.. "the door to OP" would be UG. When breached you could zone down to the actual OP. That would bring some new intress on attacking OP.
You know.. corridors,huge halls, rooms like in some OPs.. and 1&2nd layer would be doors or securitylocks and the third would be the maincomputer of the OP.
pistols nerfd, nope. tank damage, perhaps. SF seeing stealh, yes please. Shooting in stealth, na-a.. exept if pulling gun in stealth would expose you.
Jet Pack umm...prolly not.
And finally... spirit mods. Yes either remove, or add knock effect on Sniper rifles. It's BS when you shoot with a rifle that would knock and elephant down, doesn't have any effect on you.. exept the damage which comes relatively late, cause of the netcode. While sniper rifles don't have knock.. some poopy gun like NAILGUN knocks you back......
As far as i'm concerned big clans are the way to go, there is no reason small clans should be able to ally up into 7 clans from different factions. If small clans are small then they should no really be holding ops anyway apart from the occasionaly try. Also this prevents the common problem of super clans ganging up. I'm all for if the opponent clan has more fighters, then we lose, but I don't like it if they are losing and they bring in another clan.
A whole bunch of clans from different factions shouldn't be the norm for OP fights, but neither should superclans only. Sometimes you just get 2 clans within one faction which like their own independence but fight together for OPs. I don't think this kind of situation should be discouraged, and therefore I don't think your solution works, even though it's a problem which needs fixing.
Spirit bullets are too much of an easy way to killing people with shelter, plus stealthed spies with spirit SHs will be ridiculously overpowered. Also I happen to believe that tanks can use AoE to disengage stealthers, and apus will they shouldn't be hanging out alone. If Spies snipe in stealth in the wasteland, then its completely right by all means, don't find somewhere to hide then you die.
For the first part, yes, the spirit mod is too powerful when taken outside of a PPU context. But it also means APUs aren't a necessity at an OP fight, which is a good thing. A compromise is needed, not just removing Spirit mods. Regarding the thought of Tank AoE disengaging stealthers, all I can say is, go try it. Every time you succeed in even hitting a stealther with an AoE weapon, give yourself a cookie. I guarantee that after a week your cookie jar will still be full.
Yes I now realise the global attributes is a stupid idea. In the teamplay situation the PE is easily the weakest fighter. I think I'm going to remove that global attributes thing change it to your suggestion
The PE isn't entirely the weakest fighter. They still have better protection than spies do, and with PPU buffs they also have spy offence to boot if they already drug to high level weapons. The main problem of PEs being weak at OP wars comes from the imbalance in PPU buffs, so I would address the PPU issue if I was you, rather than trying to make jetpacks as a getaround.
Your idea about OP fihgts would stop any smal clan from ever getting an OP. support for other clans (even from the same Factionto even the odds would be impossibel!
Locking the zone? Hello? This isn't CS so there is no map for fighting that excludes everybody else. Some fights take hours and locking of the whole zone fpor 3 hours?
Firing in stealth would be leathal for all people without Special Forces imps.
Pistols need to be nerfed?
APU second best damage with their lousy devense?
Your Ideas would result in: PE class dead, Spys chained to plaza 1, APUs nice to kill PPU, useless otherwise.
TAnk and PPU will be the only ways to go =End of NC
this is not balancing but debalancing!!!
noo I don't want to look at the poll results lol
anyways yes you address the problem of the ppu, but nobody would agree to self cast shields as a solution, also there is no viable way to do it apart from that, one way or another it would still screw up balance. Also anyuthing to balance the game would mean nerfing the PPU bigtime, which people won't allow. Afterall the idea of PPU as commandeers in fights isn't too bad, given that APUS can actually take them down.
Also allied clans can still help, just attack another op belonging to the same clan, so if you had 7 players, with 7 players it won't make 14 players, so if the defending clan has 8 players, they'd still be fighting a fair fight with clan A, they will lose the other op to clan B, because they have more then 5 people online, so it will still work out, allies still help, but it would effectively prevent zerging and pulling the fun out of pvp.
Third barrier cannot be breached unless defending clan has at least 5 or more people, however if the op battle is engaged, where as as long as the enemy clan stays in the zone for 3 hours then the op is automatically won.
Fuck no, if that is somehow saying that the defending clan has to be there or on thats BS. Call it whatever you want, but its compleate BS to even think that you have the right to own an op when you dont have the people to defend it. If you have hardly anyone online or no one online, u should be happy and thankfull that no one cought on that you were away, not ready to bitch at the people who took it...
-Crono
Fuck no, if that is somehow saying that the defending clan has to be there or on thats BS. Call it whatever you want, but its compleate BS to even think that you have the right to own an op when you dont have the people to defend it. If you have hardly anyone online or no one online, u should be happy and thankfull that no one cought on that you were away, not ready to bitch at the people who took it...
-Crono
no, it means that we won't have 3 player clans going around the world map and hacking every single op, when nobody is online, because of having to stay 3 hours to take one op, if clans don't have people to defend it during times when there are people, then the op is lost and the clan that could do see replaces the previous owners, and thus stays that way until another clan challenges it during another time when the clan could defend, if it couldn't then the op is lost in 3 hours, which is as long most clans are willing to stay in an op fight, and stops the idiotic trio hacker thing running and hacking every outpost. If however that clan was able to defend with 5 or more players online, but dind't then the op is lost instantly.
Change that to 1 hour, any more is a waste of my time. Its not a bad idea, will help with that, but 3 is WAY too long :P
I cant see waisting more then 1 hour with a group of people getting pissed at no comp for mopre then that.
-Crono
Clownst0pper
28-07-04, 08:58
Rai, as long as there are time zones, we can never hope for fully balanced OP waring.
When Phoenix are online, Shadow arent, or just as shadow are comming online *very late* we have one OP war, and then its time for bed for most of us UK players.
So we get one fight, and thats about it.
Your system would demolish that, never mind help it.
Rai i assume your reffering to that whole Spirit thing, seriously, it is embarassing that if u say, 2-3 people did all that and took from all those clans, where were they? Like i said, if u cant defend, you simply dont deserve the right to own that op whatsoever at that time untill you have people on. If ytour gonna leave such a huige timezone hole in your clans, simply dont expect to have ops when u wake up, as you diddnt deserve them while u sleep :P
Clownst0pper
28-07-04, 09:00
Just a small question, Why remove spirit ammo?
There are like 3 people on the server who have it. o_O
3 hours is far too long, timesinks = bad.
Just a small question, Why remove spirit ammo?
There are like 3 people on the server who have it. o_O
3?.. one certain clan has more than 3.. and how much did this one person have who had hacked client? the rumours i've heard he had 10+
Clownst0pper
28-07-04, 09:16
3?.. one certain clan has more than 3.. and how much did this one person have who had hacked client? the rumours i've heard he had 10+
Thats the "certain clan" which has more than 3 due to client hacking.
All the same, I know those players, and none of them use there spys in OP wars.
well i find it strange that how i see them using Spirit SH in OPwars everytime we fight them.. and last time i got hit by it was yesterday.
But back to the topic.. read my first post and specially the BOLD section...
Edit: koro, i don't have problem with the spirit-mod itself, only the fact that you can't see that.. and like i said.. rifle that can kill and elephant, ain't knocking you.. = bollox
nevermind I got pwned lol
Clownst0pper
28-07-04, 09:27
nevermind I got pwned lol
Constructive criticism my man ;)
MjukisDjur
28-07-04, 09:38
this might just be one of the worst ideas ever. You smoking crack boy?
PEs and jetpacks sounds like fun, but I guess all you can do is annoy the hell out of your enemies, floating in the sky and trying to hit them with your pistol o_O
i know it never hapens anymore..but does knowone remember 40 per side op fights !!!!!!
for me those were some of the greatest moments of the game. 4 clans forming a pact to defend out tankocron way of life from the evil New Dawn monk revolution :P .
why would you want to limit it to 13 per side.....? seems crazy
Richard Slade
28-07-04, 10:06
C'mon? Jetpacks?
ANOTHER SW:G rip-off!?
My gosh...
C'mon? Jetpacks?
ANOTHER SW:G rip-off!?
My gosh...
there are no jetpacks in swg....
and i guess they have vehicles there, so it must be a ripoff too, remove vehicles. anf they have weapons, i guess we have to remove the weapons in nc so its not a swg ripoff. etc etc.
Here's my idea for game balance:
Remove monks.
remove spies :lol: , remove tanks :lol: , just PEs... :lol: PE-o-Cron
(pss, that was sarcasm)
why would you want to limit it to 13 per side.....? seems crazy
Well one reason.. try having 80 ppl on same zone on saturn now ? =)
And IMO it's more fun when there isn't just masses and masses of ppl running around pointlessly and having 2FPS whole time.
10vs10 fights are the most enjoyable for me. I'm not saying that it is for everybody.
Clownst0pper
28-07-04, 10:12
remove spies :lol: , remove tanks :lol: , just PEs... :lol: PE-o-Cron
(pss, that was sarcasm)
You sure? :)
You sure? :)
postive that was sarcasm with a touch of laughing emotes. was gonna add a ;) ;) but then I was like wtf...
Here's my idea for game balance:
Remove monks.
Yes to that.
No to everything else :p
Richard Slade
28-07-04, 10:49
there are no jetpacks in swg....
and i guess they have vehicles there, so it must be a ripoff too, remove vehicles. anf they have weapons, i guess we have to remove the weapons in nc so its not a swg ripoff. etc etc.
And since you got Noo in your name I think you got a ripoff of a noob and the le is, le?
So you're just a noob le user.
How about not
Do feel free to have a smoke and calm down and try to stay at a level above 13 for once? Hmm?
Anyways to the point,
we got enough references to SW:G as it is,
and jetpacks have been in the planning for SW:G for... Just about ages.
So mostly to try to get the fuck away from SW:G a little while,
I belive it's a bad idea, for now
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