View Full Version : Probs with neocron.(technical)
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 16:54
Right before u say anything i have sent all of this to tech support twice and am currently waiting on a responce from them in regards. the problem simply is that neocron is very very unstable running on my machine. Im running xp with an asus geforce 5700 256mb graphics card installed. the drivers are fully up to date and the game has been reinstalled since the driver update.
It will not stop rebooting for no apparent reason. NO OTHER GAME I HAVE INSTALLED has given me any problems only this one. im pretty sure its not a hardware issue. i have had this in the past and found the ram to be at fault but this is centralized within neocron being run. i stand still it reboots. open a door it reboots. talk run shoot it reboots. this is random and doesnt appear linked to any specific action. i have ran it for about half an hour standing idle in plaza talking. then bam it went down on me. 2 mins late it did same again and then same again. 3 times in 10 mins. all virus definitions are fully up to date. norton2003 has been run on pc as has adaware to get rid of problems.
I dont use any overclocker progs or have fiddled with any settings in my bios. i run the pc as it is when it was built. i have 512mb ddr ram ( not sure of brand ) and a 3ghz athlon what ever. sorry im not dead up on the names.
As i said earlier i have submitted it to support for them to check out and have had zero problems with any other games being run. i have run world of pirates which is a beta and not even had any issues with crashes etc. whats worse is in the time i have been running this game over the last few days i hardly have fatalled. Just a full machine reset.
Suggestions/thoughts/ideas. does nc for example have any kind of crash logs i can send in to support in reference to help them identify what the problem is.
Try to run some older gfx drivers...I've heard of quite a few issues with the latest drivers released couple of days ago.
I'm running 5.3.0.4 and they seem fine...
Try to remember when this started happening did start with anything you did to your system like install of new drivers?
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 17:01
its happened before and after the new install of neocron. the tech support guys said to me to try updating em and to reinstall nc. thats about all they did say on the first email. im waiting for a responce. most if not all of what i just posted i have sent them to give them a good idea of the problem. the graphics card is only a few months old and has been installed since i quit neocron for a while. the drivers would have been installed with it. question still begs is why other games im running work ok (ut2k4/rtcw plus a couple of betas oh and fallout 2 ;) ) and this game doesnt.
Sounds like graphiccard problem to me, a friend has the same problem. But he can still play games but when he terminates the games it reboots his computer.
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 17:03
Sounds like graphiccard problem to me, a friend has the same problem. But he can still play games but when he terminates the games it reboots his computer.
any ideas what or how i can get round it. this card is brandspanking new and tbh i dont intend replacing it to play one game.
I hear you, it's probably a driver issue or for some reason your new card isnt backwards compatible (dx5) :confused:
Try different versions of the gfx drivers(make sure you uninstall properly too before installing new drivers), make sure its not hot inside your case.
You can check logs in your nc directory but I doubt they will help much.
Check that have disabled the reboot if windows has a problem...maybe its something NC is trying to do that is upseting windows and then rebooting it.
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 17:09
cheers for this demon. 2 things. one how do i delete the drivers and have u got a set u suggest me using. 2 im not over confident with xp so wheres the option to disable the reboot?
sounds like... anything...
If XP resets there's something seriously wrong. If it's just faulty coding or badly implement driver it will give a "not responding", crash or at worst a BSOD. If it resets it's almost always funny bios / corrupt driver related. Lemm explain.... NC causes your PC to reset because of X, X goes wrong because of Y, Y goes wrong because of Z, Z goes wrong becuase of faulty drivers / bios settings. That it's been fine in the past is no guarantee for the future - know that hardware *CAN* degrade (it usually doesn't but it's possible), mostly due to the heat generated in the chips.
The drivers can include *anything*. From HDD to vidcard to sound. Even DirectX...
If it's BIOS related hardware (99.9% of the time it's the "special" performance settings and/or memory timings) I'd suggest turning those off and anti-tweak your memory settings (just make it a twat slower - up the timings).
For the drivers, re-installing is the only sollution. Starting with your mobo drivers.
But dont freak out - whatever it is, it can be fixed. ;)
cheers for this demon. 2 things. one how do i delete the drivers and have u got a set u suggest me using. 2 im not over confident with xp so wheres the option to disable the reboot?
The reboot option is here: Right-click "My computer" --> Properties --> "Advanced" tab --> under "Startup and recovery" click "Settings" --> You'll find "automaticly restart" under "system failure".
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 17:24
ok got that bram cheers. im gonna try stress test it again on nc in a mo see if anything does come up. in the meantime im updating the directx drivers to the latest ones. anything else i can download try on the pc to test?
edit. i had a virus (trojan) about a month ago which played havoc with my pc. it crashed and rebooted into bios askin to confirm chip frequency. its an amd 3ghz. what bios settin should that be on, i wanna make sure its set correctly
Could also be the sound card ....
Check link to see if you are concerned
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=94063&page=1&pp=15
To me it sounds like your CPU is overheating, my logic working like so..
NC will constantly keep your CPU @ 100% load
100% load heats up CPU
BIOS gets "CPU is too hot"
System turns itself off to protect itself.
If you right click My Computer, go to Properties, then into the logs there, you'll find out why your system rebooted (mines from a bugcheck coz of my ADSL drivers, so I'm gunna have to buy a router :p). Like Bram said you can stop XP from rebooting, though my system itself sometimes fails now, which is a pita (never had these problems with Intel, ever, I go to AMD n nowt but trouble :( )
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 17:36
cheers lexx. if i could give more + rep i would cos that wasnt a spam post for a change. ;) the chip is an athlon xp 3000+ its running at 2.17ghz according to my pc. the cooling fan etc is set up for a chip of this size so its not being overclocked. could it be gettin too hot?
Download http://www.almico.com/speedfan414.exe and see for yourself :P
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 17:38
thanks rob. nice one. checkin that now.
hmm ok fan 1 which i assume is the cpu is listed at 52 degrees with a flame next to it.
double edit. lexx how do i check that. i dont know alot about diagnostics when my pc fucks up. i usually ask someone else and remember what they did.
cheers lexx. if i could give more + rep i would cos that wasnt a spam post for a change. ;) the chip is an athlon xp 3000+ its running at 2.17ghz according to my pc. the cooling fan etc is set up for a chip of this size so its not being overclocked. could it be gettin too hot?
I never spam, thats a common misconception amongst people, all my posts are somehow pertinent to the topic that is at hand, honest :p
/edit - also try to check your PSU to make sure ur gettin enuff juice
thanks rob. nice one. checkin that now.
hmm ok fan 1 which i assume is the cpu is listed at 52 degrees with a flame next to it.
double edit. lexx how do i check that. i dont know alot about diagnostics when my pc fucks up. i usually ask someone else and remember what they did.
Hmm that sounds quite hot considering the chip...hmm make sure case isn't too congested with wires etc so it gets a good air flow...maybe to test a bit more try running the pc with the top/side of your case off and see if it cools off a bit.
Yes Lexx is right with the psu too...especailly if you updated your gfx by quite a bit...the power drain would be more. Just out of interest which card did u have before?
.hack//sign
27-07-04, 17:46
i had this same problem recently...i reformatted my HD and it worked fine after install.
Hey
i have EXACTLY the same problem here with Win2k and a Radeon 9800 Pro on a Nforce 2 Ultra Chipset board.
Every other game runs fine but Neocron...well i have a BLuescreen with (almost) every Fatal and if I end the game with ESC.
Latest Drivers for all Devices too....
Now thats strange :wtf:
I never spam, thats a common misconception amongst people, all my posts are somehow pertinent to the topic that is at hand, honest :pYes, but generally speaking most of us don't want to know where you've got your hand, and especially not what you're doing with it. ;)
---
Umm... Anyway, sounds like you need some more cooling in your PC.
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 17:59
is nc still heavily processor reliant. if so is it gonna be the fact of it draining my comp heating it up and bam it rebooting thats the issue here. maybe i need a bigger fan even tho the gfx card has one also
is nc still heavily processor reliant. if so is it gonna be the fact of it draining my comp heating it up and bam it rebooting thats the issue here. maybe i need a bigger fan even tho the gfx card has one also
It might be a power issue. What watt psu do you have? Also what gfx card did you upgrade from? It may well be that although ok for your last card the psu was fine but now doesn't have enough...
I recommend getting a antec psu they are good and stable power supplies...you probably need at least 400w you can usually read the watts off the psu unit's label.
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 18:27
demon am i gonna have to get the case open to check or will there be a way of telling on the pc. the old gfx card is was a 64mb one geforce 2 so basically i have made a big jump in terms of processing power. think it could be that.
*Every* games pushes your CPU to 100% all the time. That's NOT only NC... So if it was only that, it should crash with all games....
52C is not TO hot, but it's on the edge. Make sure the airflow is good, fan's are connected properly and the paste between the CPU and iron-thingy is still ok.
If your new vid-card (dont remember what you got) uses external power supply, make sure your powersupply can deliver the juice. 300watt minimal! If you have an old casing you should really check this...
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 18:48
its a asus geforce 5700 256mb ddr. how do i know if i got enough power etc then guys. told u im not totally up on pc stuff. the psu was replaced recently. it should be up to date afaik. i can check
If you look on the side of the case it should show you your power rating,
Look for something that says 400W or has a W not a V, coz it will probably be 230V
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 19:51
yeah checked it lexx. its 350watts. im gonna get a new ps i think and a hd cooler tommorrow. hope that should go someways to sorting it all out
can you take out your sound card, remove the drivers, then test?
yeah checked it lexx. its 350watts. im gonna get a new ps i think and a hd cooler tommorrow. hope that should go someways to sorting it all out
Thats probably a good idea...I usually build machines with 400w min. to cope with the gfx cards nowadays..esp if you got a load of other devices hanging off machine..like usb kit.
But don't go cheap on the psu either...otherwise it might blow up :P
Like I said antec is a good make I got mine for around 50 that is a 430w true power psu.
I see your computer has failed "the neocron challenge"
think your computer is tough and never crashes? wait till you install Neocron... its "the test" for system stability.
Doc Holliday
27-07-04, 23:59
ok
bsod tonight after 2nd reinstall of nc with another set of drivers. ( these were the ones i got with my graphics card. ) the error said something about it occurring with nv4_1.dll or something instead of the one. so. driver problem it is. i have deleted fully and reinstalled one set of drivers tonight. does anyone have a recommended set of drivers.
thanks for all your help too the ones who posted something useful in this thread.
i dont think it is driver related...
This happens to me 2 and a LOT! my system reboots +/- 5 to 10 times a night when i play NC
And its a fresh install since i re-joined not long ago... it happened from day one
I didnt really bothered too much couse its been the same to me since beta 3 when i ran NC in a P3 500Mhz :p some things never change!
I must say my system NEVER crashed for no other app/game - Far-Cry, Splinter Cell:PT, SoF2, JO, etc... i even run a apache server with mysql, php, etc... i work a lot with graphics too - freehand, photoshop, dreamweaver - and some 3d programs too - 3d studio max, swift3d
Apart from all this i have many music app as im a sound engenner...
I run protools, wavelab and others without ever crashing... i have a nuendo 2 project with 68 tracks of 44.1Khz 24bits audio loaded with more than 30 plugins... Never a single problem...
My HD's (all seagate 7200rpm)are defragmented and clean of viruses ( Norton system works2004 + ad-aware 6.0)
Win XP pro SP1 (english)
Intel P4 2.6Ghz fsb 400
1 Giga ddr 333 ram (2x512)
Ati radeon 9500 pro 128Mb
Doc Holliday
28-07-04, 20:28
i dont think it is driver related...
This happens to me 2 and a LOT! my system reboots +/- 5 to 10 times a night when i play NC
And its a fresh install since i re-joined not long ago... it happened from day one
I didnt really bothered too much couse its been the same to me since beta 3 when i ran NC in a P3 500Mhz :p some things never change!
I must say my system NEVER crashed for no other app/game - Far-Cry, Splinter Cell:PT, SoF2, JO, etc... i even run a apache server with mysql, php, etc... i work a lot with graphics too - freehand, photoshop, dreamweaver - and some 3d programs too - 3d studio max, swift3d
Apart from all this i have many music app as im a sound engenner...
I run protools, wavelab and others without ever crashing... i have a nuendo 2 project with 68 tracks of 44.1Khz 24bits audio loaded with more than 30 plugins... Never a single problem...
My HD's (all seagate 7200rpm)are defragmented and clean of viruses ( Norton system works2004 + ad-aware 6.0)
Win XP pro SP1 (english)
Intel P4 2.6Ghz fsb 400
1 Giga ddr 333 ram (2x512)
Ati radeon 9500 pro 128Mb
alright mate so if it aint a driver issue wtf is it. im stumped.
im gonna sort out a cooler for my hd to hopefully get the temp down a bit internally might even just get a new case to keep it cooler but failing that what else can i do. i ran fine on a shitty old gfx card and never had a prob. am i supposed to wait for doy (lol) for nc to catch up with the times and maybe be compatible.
Edit at rob below. mines a 350 watt psu. im considering upgrading simply as i have been advised to but i want to sort this goddam problem out first.
I have an Antec 380W PSU and it's ok and even enough for the X800 XT PE card.
Reroll your drivers, my advice.
Other than that, Motherboard Monitor 5 does a good job of telling you CPU temps, fan speeds, voltage and such.
You might also try getting an app to disable the shutdown thread API for Neocron, but I think that won't help- i'm sure it's a hardware problem.
Edit: 650w here :p Geforce4/P4 2.8EEHT
so this happened when you installed NC with your new card I really don't see how it should not work. When was the last time to updated your CPU bios ? :) If you goto the website where your computer came from you can get bios updates. Like my PC a Dell I had to goto the dell website to get one bios updates inclued bug fixes and other things like increasing the total size of harddisk that can be fitted or settings which support new hardware better. Yo but flashing the bios is risky you will need to know exactly what your doing and reading all instructions or your computer will never boot backup agian :/ you will need to get your bios version number and such by entering the bios its self befor bootup by pressing Delete I think
Sorry doc but I really would update the psu...the lack of power you are getting may be effecting things either that or the heat or a combo of both.
If you unplug the molex (4pin) power leads off your card it should run lower than normal...at least that what my gfx card says if I forgot to plug it in. This may be able to narrow down the problem to the psu without spending money.
Also did you try my suggestion of opening up the case and running this would say to me if the system worked ok, either a heat or your case insides are cluttered and restricting airflow inside to cause unnessecary heat.
As others have mentioned might be worth getting motherboard manager 5...quite good but dont always believe the temps it/your mobo lies at times :)
Let me know how the tests go above if you like and maybe I can suggest more.
<< Can you tell I do IT support yet lol :D
Doc Holliday
28-07-04, 22:39
lol cheers for all of this demon mate your a legend. i reinstalled nc now twice with diff drivers. once with the most uptodate drivers. once with the ones that came with the card itself.
PLease all note. THIS PC DOES NOT FUCK UP WITH OTHER GAMES! only neocron. i have not had one problem with RTCW. DELTA FORCE BHD or UT2k4. not a plug all these problems simply exist between neocron and my computer as it is now. ok im gonna sort out a new psu and a hd cooler prob this weekend. at least it takes care of part of the shit im having. it eliminates problems.
now correct me if im wrong but any hardware probs u guys are bandying around would affect everything i do on the pc surely. as stated i have had no problems with other games or running my computer normally. just this frigging game.
typical just when i actually want to play again i cant. is this sods law or what.
lol cheers for all of this demon mate your a legend. i reinstalled nc now twice with diff drivers. once with the most uptodate drivers. once with the ones that came with the card itself.
PLease all note. THIS PC DOES NOT FUCK UP WITH OTHER GAMES! only neocron. i have not had one problem with RTCW. DELTA FORCE BHD or UT2k4. not a plug all these problems simply exist between neocron and my computer as it is now. ok im gonna sort out a new psu and a hd cooler prob this weekend. at least it takes care of part of the shit im having. it eliminates problems.
now correct me if im wrong but any hardware probs u guys are bandying around would affect everything i do on the pc surely. as stated i have had no problems with other games or running my computer normally. just this frigging game.
typical just when i actually want to play again i cant. is this sods law or what.
It's funny cause when I was having similar problems it would only really effect NC...I can only guess it's the way NC hammers the CPU process, but thats not for sure.
Good luck on the buying...do try and test first tho...it may save you some money if you can get it down to single point of failure.
Doc Holliday
28-07-04, 22:46
i prefer to pay for the easy way. i still dont believe its hardware tho. for everyone else who might have an idea bout this i have also ran beta games on my pc that arent even fully up to date in terms of programming and have had 0 problems.
The nv4_1.dll reference in one of your posts is indeed related to your video. The fact that you have no problems with DX8/9 games rebooting, leads me to believe you should be looking at a DX7/nVidia issue. With that said, it could be possible that some of your DirectX files are corrupt, specifically the files that are used for DX7 compatibility. Reason I'm skeptical of DirectX first is you've tried two different nVidia drivers and the probability of them both having DX7 issues is there, but very low.
Go to START menu -> Run... and type 'dxdiag'. Under the DirectX Files tab, you'll see all the dlls and their versions. If you have a proper installation of DX9b, you should see all the files as being 'Final Retail' and under the 'Notes' section at the bottom, you should see * No Problems Found. If that isn't the case, you should reinstall DX9b with Microsoft's installer (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=141D5F9E-07C1-462A-BAEF-5EAB5C851CF5&displaylang=en). In fact, you should probably reinstall DX9b anyway just to be sure.
I've seen many different nVidia gpus run with the 56.72 drivers (http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp-2k_archive.html) for XP flawlessly... Doesn't mean they're perfect, but give them a try. Remember to UNINSTALL your current nVidia drivers in the Add/Remove Software section of the Control Panel, reboot to standard Windows video drivers, THEN install the 56.72 drivers.
If that stuff doesn't work, you may have something wrong with the drivers that can't be easily fixed. You'll spend less time with the problem if you format than messing with the driver files or registry. But before you go down that road, you could download one of those utilities that removes all nVidia drivers settings from your computer and repeat the above steps. Sometimes you need to do this so that you can replace newer nVidia drivers with older ones. Sometimes the nVidia installer won't do this.
What is the manufacturer and the exact nvidia gpu series of your card? Have you played any other DX7 games on it? You could try DiabloII (I think most people have this game laying around) and see if it causes the same symptoms.
@Juht
so why do i have exactly the same problem with a ati radeon 9500 pro?
And Doc... me like u only have this problems with NC too....
Hell, i run FryCry, the most processor and memory dependent game around, (that i know) wich requires 1G ram to run properly and a good gfx card...
I Never had a single problem with farcry... and my card is not that good... i run it with everything at high, except water quality very high and AF=1 and AA=2.
For this reasons and the statments i made in previous posts, i dont believe its a hardware, psu, cooling or whatever problem... :wtf:
There must be something in our systems that the NC client dislikes (not the gfx drivers as our cards use different drivers), but what confuses me is that our systems are completly different :confused:
EDIT: i made a liltle test and installed the game Myst (1993 i believe)
This is a Dx6 game wich requires QT2 ROFL
I have DX9 and QT6
The game runs flawless
Maybe our problem is not DX related
Doc Holliday
29-07-04, 19:01
Juht thanks for all your help. its an asus card. geforce 5700 256mb ram on it. im ran the dx diag. all bar 1 file was full retail so i know its up to scratch. thats fine. gonna use those drivers u recommended. i have removed the others. if it doesnt work this time im gonna format the entire pc or wait to see what tech supp say. they havent been the fastest or the most attentive to the problem so far which is why im posting this.
ps heres a bit of pos rep for u buddy :p
Community support is best anyway. Even if KK didn't have limited staff, they wouldn't have all the answers. Chances are better getting support from a community of thousands over a couple support peeps. :D
I hope the driver pans out...
@WarBrain
My personal computer has a Radeon 9600XT in it now, first ATI I've used in over 5 years, and it replaced my GeForce4. One thing I can tell you, ATI drivers have always been and still are shit. If you're not already using the Omega drivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/) for your ATI, please do yourself a favor, install them. Maybe it'll sort your problem?
@WarBrain
My personal computer has a Radeon 9600XT in it now, first ATI I've used in over 5 years, and it replaced my GeForce4. One thing I can tell you, ATI drivers have always been and still are shit. If you're not already using the Omega drivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/) for your ATI, please do yourself a favor, install them. Maybe it'll sort your problem?
Ok. Downloading now... will give it a try. I'll post later the results. TY :cool:
THE_TICK!!!!
29-07-04, 19:50
doc....NC is a proc...intenisve app..what other apps are running in the background ??
Btw, the Omega driver installer makes it very clear that you need to uninstall your video drivers first. Just uninstall from the Add/Remove Software in the Control Panel, restart, then install your Omega drivers when you're back on Standard VGA drivers.
I've rarely had major trouble with nVidia reference drivers, save for a few times they had bugs, but nVidia sorts it within a week. So needless to say, I've never tried Omega drivers for nVidia cards... But he's never done me wrong with the ATI ones, so if someone feels like checking out his nVidia drivers, I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Doc Holliday
30-07-04, 00:19
still doing the same. i followed juhts advice to the letter and installed the recommended drivers. this time it wiped out reset rebooted loaded windows and went blue screen. it was a sysaudio.sys error. at the top it said page fault in non paged area. im tempted to reinstall my sc drivers now too if its giveing audio probs. not with actual sound but fuck it it cant hurt i spose. still waiting on tech support too. any mods able to help me out?
i really appreciate everyones help with this too, nice 1.
Ok. when i installed myst the other nite i had to run it in comp mode for win 95.
So i thought - NC is old game, so yestarday i put the client.exe to run in comp mode with win 98/nt
instead of 5 to 10 reboots a nite and a handful of FRE's , yestarday i only had 2 blue screens (not same as reboot but had to reboot pc anyway) and 1 FRE. Something changed for better but i dont know what that blue corrupted screen thing was.
Today i installed Omega Drivers for ati... played for 6 hours and had no reboots, no blue screens and just 1 FRE.
Maybe my problem is solved... or i were just too lucky these 2 nights :D lets see...
ty Juht for your help
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