View Full Version : New direction for PE's
In my opinion, spys should be the masters of hacking and stealth and PE's should be the masters of barricading against hancking and detecting stealth.
Imagine a spy trying to break into your OP security system to shut down the turrets or some such. You call your clan PE to come and put up counter measures against the intrusion. Skill vs. skill.
Or imagine a PE with some kind of tool (small radius) that could detect stealthers.
Last time I checked they were called "private eye's" and to me that means they find shit.
"It takes a thief to catch a thief."
It takes a spy to catch a spy. Most logical really.
The names of the charater classes doesn't have anything to do with what they are supposed to do.
well, actually a spy is an excellent spy, he has stealth.
a tank is a great dmg sponge and deals nice dmg.
a monk is, well, a monk, he chants lightning and stuff from the sky.
while a PE is a wannabe tank/spy
The names of the charater classes doesn't have anything to do with what they are supposed to do.
I think you may want to restate this, it made no sense.
ANYWAY. My point is that a PRIVATE EYE is someone who is a detective of sorts. Thus, since the class needs a good role to play, counter spy is the perfect one, no?
I think you may want to restate this, it made no sense.
ANYWAY. My point is that a PRIVATE EYE is someone who is a detective of sorts. Thus, since the class needs a good role to play, counter spy is the perfect one, no?
No, because like he said, the name of the class doesn't really mean shit about game balance. They're just names, and in the case of the PE, not very well considered names.
I can make a tank that snipes with a Pain Easer. Should we call him a spy now?
I can make a PE that fights with a Speedgun or Paw of Tiger. Should we now call him a tank?
I can make a PE who rezzes dead people. Is he now a PPU?
you are missing the point... counter-spy is the perfect role for a PE to play, in my opinion.
You are missing the point. The other spies already play this role, and PPUs have True Sight Sanctum.
The role is covered.
People generaly look to much on the name of a class.
KK didn't have the name "PE" in mind when they made the class. They wanted classes that were good at different things; mostly int & dex (plays with gadgets = James Bond = spy), mostly str & con (geneticly enhanced humans = grown in tanks in labs = gene tank), mostly psi & int (exotic psi-power = power of the mind, meditation, etc = monk), and finally a average class that's able to do most things, just not as good as those who specialise in that area.
What would be a good name of that class? "average class"? Noone would play it with a silly name like that, they needed a cool name. And the rest is history...
new direction for PEs? how about shop assistant, when the player run shops come about, i mean there ment to be the avarage type people, give em a normal steady job, and leave the real work to the real classes :p
I still think that PEs should be the "Special Forces" type class thingymabob.
Give us jetpacks damnit!1!11!!ONEONEONE
Another case of PEs dont have stealth anymore so lets do our best to nerf it.
I'm not sure people are asking for stealth nerf, just a role for PE's in NC2 other than cannon fodder. And no please lets not get into the usual 'my PE is really useful in combat' - he may be, but he's the exception, you just have to log in to the servers to see it.
Vehicles, Jet packs, Special Citycom skills (ie runner location) are all good possibilities imo.
I agree that PEs should get a NCPD and clan info tool that can be used anywhere not a mobile citycom because it makes missions exploitable, jetpacks meh dont like the idea really and it will be kinda useless anyway with the new troop transport gliders, but I agree that PEs should be able to drive the vast majority of vehicles and the int 75 req on the DOY scout glider is stupidly high and gimps any PE who uses it til he cant really PvP. Stealth doesnt need a nerf, I admit its annoying as hell when your trying to kill a spy but it doesnt need nerfing.
Mumblyfish
27-07-04, 16:35
I still think that PEs should be the "Special Forces" type class thingymabob.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the Spy's role in the storyline?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the Spy's role in the storyline?
You didnt know that 90% of PEs want to be spies but just cba to level to 100 int and 100 dex so they whine about how crap they are on the forums all day?
You didnt know that 90% of PEs want to be spies but just cba to level to 100 int and 100 dex so they whine about how crap they are on the forums all day?
uh. if PEs COULD lvl to 100 dex and 100 int that would be awesome, but they cant can they, it would require rerolling to a spy ;)
Seriously tho, its not the PEs fault that they dont get any loving.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the Spy's role in the storyline?
Yeah but also in the storyline the PE is described as being able to become a "playboy". I think we all agree that the storyline is a moot point when it comes to the actualy game.
Snow, it isn't a case of wanting the PEs to become spies, it is the fact that we want PEs to have their on "niche", it is impractical to be JOAT nowdays (ever sine patch 160 in fact). I just want to see PEs have their own role in the game, and not be the wannabe tank/spy.
uh. if PEs COULD lvl to 100 dex and 100 int that would be awesome, but they cant can they, it would require rerolling to a spy ;)
Seriously tho, its not the PEs fault that they dont get any loving.
im not sure if you missed the point there, hes says that most Pes want to be spies but cant be arsed being a spy, so go a PE instead and complain to be spies
There is no such thing as a niche in Neocron unless KK decide to add in PE only weapons there will never be a niche in Neocron.
im not sure if you missed the point there, hes says that most Pes want to be spies but cant be arsed being a spy, so go a PE instead and complain to be spies
i know, i was being sarcastic or whatever. :(
i know, i was being sarcastic or whatever. :(
right well erm get reroling then :p
rofl got a problem with what i wrote up top Mr Fryd
First off - I think classes should be renamed.
Secondly, I think PE's stats should be adjusted.
Thirdly: More material should be added aside from combat related items, giving each class a chance to shine.
niche
n 1: a position particularly well suited to the person who occupies it; "he found his niche in the academic world"
There are niches in Neocron, maybe not strictly enforced but they are there. Tanks are the all "front line" fighters, dishing out a lot of damage and being able to take punishment aswell. Monks are obviously psi specialists... either able to support other players or deal out a lot of damage (in a support role). Spies rare the hightech peeps, best tradeskillers, (arguably) the best hackers, and the ability to use all the high-end dex weapons without too much strain. The PE does not have a role, ofc PEs can be good fighters, but they are easily overshadowed by the other classes. PEs used to be the best duelers (to a degree) but now spies have (en mass) figured out how to get good resists, which can be almost equal to that of a PE.
Don't even get me started about how balance looks like when you throw a PPU into the equation.
I'm not asking to have PEs become spies (though arguably spies became PEs when they got shelter) I just want PEs to become useful in Neocron, instead of being the class that is almost worthless in op wars and contributes nothing to a team.
Basically all classes are front line classes because very few people go into combat without ppu support these days and with holy heal the way it is it means basically every class can damage soak effectively.
Tradeskillers, well its been proved that even tanks can make high quaility high slotted rares so everyone can construct effectively repair is only sucky on monks because of fuck all dex and strength, well basically the only tradeskiller a spy out shines everyone else at is research and thats still only a theory and presuming you believe the formulae KK have made public.
PEs can hack everything a spy can, may change with hacknet or may not, PEs if they are willing to drugwhore can use every weapon a spy can if even to a slightly less damage and rof althought Ive heard of PEs capping slashers and still having better resists.
The only thing that PEs fall down on are the bonuses gained from PPU support even then they still get more resists, more health and better damage on their weapons but because other classes gain more from PPu shelter and deflector then PEs do they are at a slight disadvantage compared to the others with the exception of spies who still take less damage to take down but have stealth to make up for this.
As Ive said before the best way to make PEs useful in an op fight is to make shelter and deflector self cast only, althought that could fuck up apus so would need a good bit of testing first.
the pe should be re named the NP
the new player character class
now im not knocking any pe out there as there are some damn good ones about but i think the pe was intended to be the try nc class ,hey nib you can try a bit of everything with this class !!!!
Basically all classes are front line classes because very few people go into combat without ppu support these days and with holy heal the way it is it means basically every class can damage soak effectively.
Tanks are far better damage soakers than every other class (if they have a good PPU ofc). Though this is, imo, the main problem with game balance, the fact that you have a spell that heals 35 hp every second (or something around there, I forget) is quote frankly ridiculous.
Tradeskillers, well its been proved that even tanks can make high quaility high slotted rares so everyone can construct effectively repair is only sucky on monks because of fuck all dex and strength, well basically the only tradeskiller a spy out shines everyone else at is research and thats still only a theory and presuming you believe the formulae KK have made public.
Yes tanks can make good rares, but they can't do anything else if they spec this way (except for those damn melee tanks, which everyone knows are overpowered as it is) and this issue should be addressed by KK soon... hopefully. Spies are one of the only classes that can be a reasonable tradeskiller while still retaining the ability to be effective in pvp (well... more than other classes atleast).
PEs can hack everything a spy can, may change with hacknet or may not, PEs if they are willing to drugwhore can use every weapon a spy can if even to a slightly less damage and rof althought Ive heard of PEs capping slashers and still having better resists.
Again, if a PE specs to hack then will have far less wep and PSU (less of an issue with pistol PEs but still relevant). The drugwhore thing is another reason why I want PEs to have their own role... so we don't have to drug up to high heaven to use spy weapons to be effective.
As Ive said before the best way to make PEs useful in an op fight is to make shelter and deflector self cast only, althought that could fuck up apus so would need a good bit of testing first.
Agreed, lots of people agreed that this was probably one of the best ways to help balance the game when it first surfaced around christmas. Though, a less drastic way could be to reduce the effect of holy shelter foreign casts again, and see how it turns out then.
Ozambabbaz
27-07-04, 18:16
As Ive said before the best way to make PEs useful in an op fight is to make shelter and deflector self cast only, althought that could fuck up apus so would need a good bit of testing first.
APUs as a class are balanced, they have their off-set totally negated by having a PPU, so fucking them up as opposed to the n00b carebear rules in play now? yes.
do they deserve it in my opinion? oh yes
A monk is a monk ?
Have you ever seen monks praying in Neocron ?
The Crahn Church is pretty empty on Sunday =(
I said it could fuck them up not that it will.
Also testing something before implementing it is always good because generally when you dont test stuff it fucks up thngs you havent even thought about.
Right now theres nothing PEs can do that another class cant do better.
When they try and spread themselves out and do a bit of each (like the JOAT label people keep pinning to them says) they become useless in all situations unless the player is a loner that doesnt interact with other players.
Even when the player is a loner hes still a dead loner when anyone else fights him.
Its been said once and a million times, PE's are the worst joats in the game, they cant multispecialise cause they dont have the basic stats for that, they are forced to go in one direction only. Sure, a pistol PE can hack or poke as or both as well as use a pistol, but a rifle PE cant afford int points, nor dex points because PE's are the bitch of NC.
Spies/Tanks/APU outdamage PE's
Tanks have better armour/resists (without PSI use or drugs)
PPU's have better PSI Defence.
PE's are the worst class in the game cause they have a little bit of this and a little bit of that. If KK were to change PE's, the only thing I could think of would be to add a Str PE so he/she can get 80Str/60Dex instead of 60Str/80Dex, then PE's could use tank weaponry better instead of being a gimped spy.
I would just like to point out that at the time, alot of the older PEs chose their class because it was the class with the highest Dex skill. So don't throw all PEs into the "I want to be a spy but can't be arsed" bunch.
Also, whoever it was who said that PEs should be the "New Character" class... please get real. There are 4 classes in NC, 4. Thats it. They can't devote a quarter of possibilities to a "New character" class, if they had say.... 10 classes and that this class was made out to be the starter class from the beginning then maybe that might work. But in the situation atm you are plain wrong.
you tell em judge!! <3 how was America? :p
I'm still there.... posting from my Hotel. They have 24hour internet access for only $6 a day. :o
Also their network is the worst, and most insecure I've ever seen in my entire life. I don't think that tehy even have a firewall, and they allow normal users to like... download .exe files and shit. :p
wow, your in the AOL Hothell? O_o :p when you back btw? your missing all the fun of not being in beta like the rest of us :D
PEs are the king of vehicles, but BDOY will change all that, the HC PE which can use all vehicles at the moment can no way use a scout glider, with hacknet around no one would even play a PE, just delete the class already all the points have been made in this thread.
the problem I see is that whatever happens tanks/monks will pretty much be again what decides which side wins, the flying PEs are for show, and air vehicles get destroyed in first few seconds. There needs to be some massive nerf, like heals dissapearing when person gets hit. As the system stands now there is no place for spies and pes beyond hacking.
I suggest in BDOY
Be able to shoot in stealth (not pvm) (lone tanks and apus should get owned by spies, tanks are dumb after all, and apus shouldn't work properly alone)
Make special forces chip: ability to see stealth
Anti stealth sanctum: as large as heal sanctum, and as long as a primary buff, make it work "instantly"
Introduce jet packs for PEs, able to shoot while in flight, since they can't fly doy gliders, give them something worthwhile in an op fight.
I think this will effectively give spies and PEs a chance in op fights, it makes sense that you could shoot in stealth, and the two classes that could see through this would be spies and pes. This also gives monks and tank/melee a disadvantage they should have suffered, and puts the odds even. Also since spies already have too much shit, PEs should get a jetpack, which gives them a damn use for scouting stealthers, and intermediete combat will hardcore combat will still be based upon monks and tanks. Honestly with holy heal and the game design, this would not make spies, pes or dex tanks overpowered.
Back next tuesday.... Can't wait until I'm able to play on my new computer again. :D
Though its pretty cool in America... been doing some Parkour in the middle of some of their most treasured national parks. :p
Back next tuesday.... Can't wait until I'm able to play on my new computer again. :D
Though its pretty cool in America... been doing some Parkour in the middle of some of their most treasured national parks. :p
as long as you remember its illegal to attempt to commit murder whilst wearing a bullet proof jacket after spending 5 hours playing bingo :p
i said that the pe was the newbie class originally not a new class ,i should have said maybe kack of all trades,master of none??
Dribble Joy
28-07-04, 13:21
i should have said maybe kack of all trades,master of none??
That's what we are trying to get at, they are NOT jack of all trades, yet they are also master of none.
They have to select one path and rely on their other stats in order to make up for the deficiencies they have in that path.
The only thing that makes them appear to be JOATs is that they have more paths to choose from.
...
pes are still a strong class, its only in your hand to handle it.
didnt know why most crying ... pe is cool, only bad is the lost stealth 1, cant raid mb now with my "fuck all mercs" pe :D
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