View Full Version : New player comment - Why no one joins
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 14:29
Ok ive had several friends join neocron and have left. this is a collection of there thought of the game in the first few hours of gameplay.
1) No help with char creation.
2) After workin out character creation there is no ingame help at mc5. also MC5 is very uninviting.
3) MC5 gives VERY little help. most help people give is "leave mc5" which makes it well.. shit
4) There is no comparison between the help recieved from other games. neocron is apparently one of the worst for new player support. remember not everyone reads the forums for hours before playing
5) There is no "mentor" system which would greatly improve the new player experience.
6) New players feel unwanted. and get easily frustrated with the lack of support or help with the game. both from KK and from the community ingame
Thats basically it. remember this aint my view this is theres.
Mighty Max
22-07-04, 14:31
7) New players are told to remove the LE and beeing PKed instantly after
...there is always the neocron offline demo that shows you a thing or two...not to say it helps a lot but sum yes.
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 14:36
what you mean the old outdated crappy one that actually worked to put me off the game?
what you mean the old outdated crappy one that actually worked to put me off the game?
Yes, thats the one.
I actually enjoy playing through it from time to time, although god forbid a newbie plays it and gathers opinions about Neocron from it. Besides all of this information will become obsolete come September the first, although a sneek peak would certainly help to put my worries at rest.
Toilet-Duck
22-07-04, 14:39
I would agree to this, I left neocron a year ago, however came back last week and reactivated my account. (Got sick of CS ;) )
Richard Slade
22-07-04, 14:47
A good tutorial and MUCH better char creation would be good.
A step-by-step char creation (no not like the one there is) should be good
Look at SW:G, they got about the same but still MUCH better...
Benjie is that a foot?
Benjie is that a foot?
It's my foot. Those socks go up to my knees. I buy socks at the womens section. Mens choice of Thin and Black, or Thick and White with a crappy Adidas or Adidas rip-off logo on it are so dull.
I loved the demo where you built the rocket launcher, and helped the copbots, and hacked stuff. Oh and killed rats.
Or was it Neocron? I'm sure it was. You had to go underground, because a TG attack had blocked off the normal route, and then you had to help the NCPD.
I normally try to help noobs, but Jack came up with a thought that is worrying. If you help noobs, are you depriving them of experiences they should find themselves? Like Jack makes guns and stuff for the noobs, I normally PPU for them, and they are going through aggies at a lower level than normal.
It's worrying... maybe to help is to rob them of experiences.
I loved the demo where you built the rocket launcher, and helped the copbots, and hacked stuff. Oh and killed rats.
Or was it Neocron? I'm sure it was.
Yes that was Neocron, and it was a fantastic Demo.
It would make a fantastic offline tutorial too if they updated it graphicly and gameplay wise.
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 15:03
ye thats the one that got me hooked but it wasnt used much, never did work out why
I loved the demo where you built the rocket launcher, and helped the copbots, and hacked stuff. Oh and killed rats.
Or was it Neocron? I'm sure it was. You had to go underground, because a TG attack had blocked off the normal route, and then you had to help the NCPD.
I normally try to help noobs, but Jack came up with a thought that is worrying. If you help noobs, are you depriving them of experiences they should find themselves? Like Jack makes guns and stuff for the noobs, I normally PPU for them, and they are going through aggies at a lower level than normal.
It's worrying... maybe to help is to rob them of experiences.
That's the official demo that's still available for download on the main page.
As far as helping newbies and them not getting the "experience", you're probably right about it.
Some of my best early memories include being lost in the outzone, venturing into the wastelands with my clan (beta 4) when it was dark, nobody touched gamma or anything, so we all had flashlights. We ran into lots of things like spider queens and wolves, it was a pretty exciting experience. :p Things like that, truly being new, seeing the game and thinking of how big and deep it could be if you explored really made it fun.
I actually feel kind of sorry for the newbies now, instead of some fun experiences like I had, they are probably going from like Aggie Cellars -> MB Bunker -> Chaos Caves, with almost nothing in between, and hands held the whole way - no offense to you or anyone, you're trying to do the right thing and help. :angel:
that demo was fun, after i played neocron for awhile
i went back, bought APU spells from upstairs plaza 1
bought the psi glove went into plaza 2 and started owning the TG people with a poison beam! :rolleyes:
hooked on it for hours :D
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 15:06
but like my friends said. if it wasnt for the help they would have never got ANYWHERE. not all players are happy to wander around lost for 3 hours having no idea what to do. there is NO help for new players. a mentor system would work wonders, but KK wont allow that ive asked before apparently they dont want players interacting with new players.
New players feel unwanted. and get easily frustrated with the lack of support or help with the game. both from KK and from the community ingame
Yeah, i've always said there should be some guide as to which SERVER to play on. The only clue that a total newbie has, is the language / no. of characters per server.
IMO, those recommending (english speaking) friends to join the NC community should recommend Pluto to start with as they can get to grips with a single character there, and the community support is wonderful. I've been helping some newbies there recently, and i was amazed at the number of people who jumped in to help offering construction, weapons etc.
If they want to experiment with different characters, they should take advantage of the four char slots on Saturn (as long as they don't mind being surrounded by unhelpful w*****s who just wanna kill them :p )
P.S. I said Saturn instead of Uranus purely based on usual populations, ppl to level with etc. I've never played on Uranus, so no offence to Uranuphiles (is that a word?? :confused: )
noob mc5 was dumb idea.
its not like AO or UO which have noob areas but also have lots of people about as well.
our noob area is abandoned of all like.
Richard Slade
22-07-04, 15:41
Best would be to make it as simple as that you NEED to train in MC5 just because you can't kill anything outside,
and add the ability to go back until like /20
i dont want to say that NC is easy in char creation but a lot of ppl starting have a wrong view of neocron.
they just get told things by friends jump in and dont know what to do.
i bet only a minority have played the offline tutorial. but it helps.
next are the skills. shure its a bad thing that you dont know you equipment (btw i dint know it on SWG and AA) but i can assume that when i select a Job that have a preselection of 20 P-C i have a pistol ?! or am i wrong?
ok after that you are fucked. there is allmost no ingame help but the little text on the '?' in every window. you have to get them outside of the game.
well they promise to send "helpmails" with doy but today you have to ask ppl whats good and whats bad. the help you get then ranges from 100000k to a WL trip or techical help.
btw, i see the biggest problem in the kind of players joinin' real MMORPG dont have a problem with gettin familiar to the game. MMOG are the oned that need it as easy as possible.
and add the ability to go back until like /20
hmm, that dont fit to the story of MC5 you are there because it a CA death camp .. ahh i mean Happy Camp :)
there is no need to go back if you dont get told to take you LE out.
TheGreatMilenko
22-07-04, 16:35
7) New players are told to remove the LE and beeing PKed instantly after
so true
MC5 sucks.
That's all that needs to really be said and reiterated on this issue.
Lets be fair here
Despite its faults, MC5 was a great inprovment on just being dumped in your apartment and left thinking 'WTF do I do now????'
Lets be fair here
Despite its faults, MC5 was a great inprovment on just being dumped in your apartment and left thinking 'WTF do I do now????'
not really apartment you were right there with people around to help, mc5 is ajust an abandond zone
Shadow Dancer
22-07-04, 18:03
Another reason I have noticed, is how boring newbie levels are. I almost always get asked "when do I stop killing rats" by any newbies I meet. It's not fun. Running super slow and killing rats for hours on end is not fun. I could tolerate it back when the population was actually decent, but now when you are usually alone in the sewers it's not that fun.
Ezza is right. I have no idea how anyone could think MC5 is better than the previous method. My first apt was in via rossa. I came out, I saw monks chatting to each other, tanks standing around, pes running really fast. :p
It was fun. Then I entered plaza............ahhh the memories. :)
DELETE MC5 !!!!
starting in your apartment was fine.
Another reason I have noticed, is how boring newbie levels are. I almost always get asked "when do I stop killing rats" by any newbies I meet. It's not fun. Running super slow and killing rats for hours on end is not fun. I could tolerate it back when the population was actually decent, but now when you are usually alone in the sewers it's not that fun.
Ezza is right. I have no idea how anyone could think MC5 is better than the previous method. My first apt was in via rossa. I came out, I saw monks chatting to each other, tanks standing around, pes running really fast. :p
It was fun. Then I entered plaza............ahhh the memories. :)
back at begining of retail when they still had the kill the yellow spider missions, its was fun cos everyone was in there doing the same all chasing after the same spiders "omg that was my spider kos!!!" lol
ya my first char was a next monk, so i started in plaza 2, its funny but the door on my apartment block is broke, if you open one side the other doesnt so you have to squeeze though, was funny, then you came to plaza itsself, lots of people chatting running around, and the place looks hugh, with the hover cop thingys, flashing signs, and that women announcing there is dangerous criminals in the inner city or whatnot, was great.
ahh memories indeed
Another reason I have noticed, is how boring newbie levels are. I almost always get asked "when do I stop killing rats" by any newbies I meet. It's not fun. Running super slow and killing rats for hours on end is not fun. I could tolerate it back when the population was actually decent, but now when you are usually alone in the sewers it's not that fun.
isn't that the same problem a gaming mag had?
They said it was good etc but they got bored of killing rats before long
isn't that the same problem a gaming mag had?
They said it was good etc but they got bored of killing rats before long
i know the wanker at gamespy had that issue
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 19:10
Perhaps some re-thinking of MC5 and a mentor program would be a good step?
slaughteruall
22-07-04, 19:12
Perhaps some re-thinking of MC5 and a mentor program would be a good step?
Yes MC5 needs to be redone badly. It could be a good place to lvl if it's done right. As it is now there is shot for mobs there.
Slaughter
Dirk_Gently
22-07-04, 19:12
There should be a kind of mini-epic in MC5 (as they are no doubt insisting on keeping it-I think it is part of the plot) at the start that show's people how to play the game and what everything is about.
Could do with the NPC speeches being in better English too.
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 19:17
Well how about we list some stuff we would like added to MC5 assuming its getting kept?
ill start with
1) Better choice of starting equipment. or how about you dont give them any and just give them cash. and use a navray type thing to lead them to an NPC who will not be a shop. but will explain diffrent items based on there class and give them a choice? is that even possible with the scripting language available?
2) More missions, designed to not only give them some XP but actually teach them stuff. aswell as have a little story behind it. i actually like the MC5 mission. cept only city clan can get it...
3) Mentor system where a member of the mentor group will attempt to be in MC5 answering questions and such.
theres my first few
would be good, if like in ultima online, when you start you get a quest to do, and you also get shown the basics of the game as you go at start.
sorry before anyone says the ofline tutorial, nah there should be a online part for people
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 19:21
Agreed UO had a great system especially when they had the mentor system setup. i loved that. made u feel like u were welcome when someone came and personally gave u some lessons.
Doc Holliday
22-07-04, 19:23
How many times has it been said. KK are going to fix the noob mc5 so it DOES bring in new people and DOES help them out and DOES give them tips on setups etc. ALL this is being implemented already. why not read up a tad more before making a thread to discuss the obvious.
sorry before anyone says the ofline tutorial, nah there should be a online part for people
Agreed.. For my part.. I always skip the "offline" tutorial.. atleast the first time, cause i'm too anxious to try to game itself :)
How many times has it been said. KK are going to fix the noob mc5 so it DOES bring in new people and DOES help them out and DOES give them tips on setups etc. ALL this is being implemented already. why not read up a tad more before making a thread to discuss the obvious.
you should know that they say a lot of things
slaughteruall
22-07-04, 19:25
How many times has it been said. KK are going to fix the noob mc5 so it DOES bring in new people and DOES help them out and DOES give them tips on setups etc. ALL this is being implemented already. why not read up a tad more before making a thread to discuss the obvious.
When and where has this been said? I would love to see a link about it if you can dig one up.
Slaughter
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 19:25
How many times has it been said. KK are going to fix the noob mc5 so it DOES bring in new people and DOES help them out and DOES give them tips on setups etc. ALL this is being implemented already. why not read up a tad more before making a thread to discuss the obvious.
how about you READ the thread before you mouth off. how about you THINK before u start bitching. KK have said alot of stuff. KK said they would release how many times. KK said they would fix this and that and the other. HELL KK said they would fix MC5 and they spawn signs.. ok good.... what THATS IT!!! no i think ill keep making posts untill they do something about it. and i suggest if you dont like that and have nothing constructive to add to the thread. hell just dont read the threads by me..
EDIT :
lol at the last 3 replies tbh
How many times has it been said. KK are going to fix the noob mc5 so it DOES bring in new people and DOES help them out and DOES give them tips on setups etc. ALL this is being implemented already. why not read up a tad more before making a thread to discuss the obvious.For all we know, they might simply decide to move the vendors and add another newbie ingame e-mail. That would constitute a change, but not a good one.
I doubt that would be the case, but one never knows... So I find it better to err on the side of caution and reiterate whats known so they don't think less will be better.
Lets be fair here
Despite its faults, MC5 was a great inprovment on just being dumped in your apartment and left thinking 'WTF do I do now????'
I remember my first day in NC. My first apartment ever was in Viarosso on the waterfront and when I finally figured out how to leave and what the hell that synchronization screen was, I found myself outside in this awesome place that I explored for about an hour, meeting and greeting with people who told me a little bit here and there.
When it was time for me to "go home" I was completely lost. Took me forever to find my way back, even with help from the locals, and when I did get back... I had *no idea* wtf my "Apartment Code" was as I had never set one. So I rerolled that character :p
The best "new player" experience I've ever had was in Anarchy Online. From what I recall - I created my character on a space ship, then was shipped down to the landing site on the planet. When I got there I was in an airport full of NPCs, all with similar stories of just landing there or employees who knew stuff. When you left the port you basically went through one of three doors to pick your "faction". Once you went through that you were spawned into a "noob" ground where you could start killing like butterflies and rats and stuff. The difference between MC5 and this place - there were other NPCs there almost constantly. And this place was in the heart of the main city that I was in, so there was no reason to leave - levelling there was fine. I would've gotten lost trying to find my way out of the city - probably only to be killed by mobs that were 10 x stronger than me.
By far the best part however, was the fact that every character in AO has a flag in the database that tells whether or not they have been "meeted and greeted" by an in-game GM-typed character. I played AO for about 30 minutes then logged out. I had heard then all these stories of my friends getting Insta-greeted by a magical, floating, lighted GM. I was like, wtf!? So I logged back in and within 5 mins I had one at me. They can tell if you've been said hello to and they ask if you have any basic questions. Once we chatted for a bit, on his end I was marked as "done" and he moved on to the next noob, I'm sure. This by far was an incredible part of the new world experience. Mayze, who used to run neonoob, is one of these people. They are trained volunteers who are there to do nothing but help newcomers to the game. Why NC doesn't have this, who knows.
More wishes of KK that I'm sure will never see the light of day:
- Remove the choosing of your faction in the menu system. When you spawn in the game, your F6 Window would list all the factions with buttons next to them that would bring up the info on that faction (mission statement, key personel, current stock info), but they would all be greyed out. MC5 would have headquarters and representatives of all the factions there that you can talk to. They should also heavily represent their faction in imagery and graphics. The 'out of city' factions wouldn't have offices like the nice normal ones - they would be setup at the far edges of MC5 and you'd have to explore the zone a bit to know all the factions. As you talk to each faction HQ, the faction on your F6 window would become usable showing you basically got the sales pitch from them. When it's time to leave MC5, you have to visit the Faction Officer to join up with someone before you leave...
- Once you've picked your faction, you head back to the HQ to pick your job. You should be told what each job gives you item-wise and that you can only pick one profession, you can't pick another and get the gear from that job as well.
- Skill points, while still in the noob MC5 zone, which you can't get back to, should be all free, meaning you don't set them in the naming menus, and when you hit the + to add points to a skill, you can also hit a - to remove them, without penalty. This way someone can put all their points into R-C as a noob, try it out, then switch to P-C effortlessly and see what they like. However, once they go through the Venture Warp and their genes are dissected for the first time, whatever they have setup there is what will stay when they get to their destination. It's LoMs from them on out. I think this would give characters a real chance to find their niche in-game, before investing so much and finding nothing but dislike and frustration.
- MC5 should be located deep underground. This is a dark & dirty Sci-Fi, post apocolyptic MMORPG, right? Why do we start out in a desert? The training area should be a Holdeck/Neofrag-like zone, except here you can gain experience off the small mobs. It should then have several clearly marked exits leading up a series of tunnels to the surface, and at the ends of them would Venture Warp. Each one having one going to either Viarosso, DoY, TG, CM, TH, and MB, the endpoints of which should be guarded by the respective faction guards, and rather heavily. Signs should guide you effortlessly down the right hallways.
- Just like AO, you should be greeting by an in-game support person. That should just be standard. I would so quit being a clan leader if I were one of these people :p
Anyway - those are just a few ideas to help player retention. I doubt anyone will ever pay attention to them tho :(
Hey, RaTMaN, you readin this? :p
MC5 is a bad idea, starting in your appartment makes more sense.
Doc Holliday
22-07-04, 20:50
how about you READ the thread before you mouth off. how about you THINK before u start bitching. KK have said alot of stuff. KK said they would release how many times. KK said they would fix this and that and the other. HELL KK said they would fix MC5 and they spawn signs.. ok good.... what THATS IT!!! no i think ill keep making posts untill they do something about it. and i suggest if you dont like that and have nothing constructive to add to the thread. hell just dont read the threads by me..
EDIT :
lol at the last 3 replies tbh
what i added was constructive. its been said. u could simply have posted a link to that article and made suggested improvements and maybe even shock horror entitled it brain port. wow. an idea.
oh and dont try and make me out to be a troll either with your edit tbh :p
If they were your friends, then why didn't you help them out? Or get other friends in the game to do so? Community is what counts.
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 20:54
I like pretty much all of the ideas there especially the switchable skills. god it took me weeks to work out what i wanted from reading the website while i waited for the game to be delivered. only to find i had to re-roll cos i hated what i had chosen.
Perhaps some of us should band together to help new players and beg KK to allow us to goto MC5 and help them out there. we can also keep bugging them about MC5 and see if we can get a few things changed. We know what new players want. KK dosnt really because they have never been new players. ( well most )
@ Doc Holliday
Did you even read the first post? i dont think you did.
@ Archeus
We did all of us on vent. and like the said without our help they would have quit before leaving MC5
Perhaps some of us should band together to help new players and beg KK to allow us to goto MC5 and help them out there. we can also keep bugging them about MC5 and see if we can get a few things changed. We know what new players want. KK dosnt really because they have never been new players. ( well most )
How about we wait 'til DoY and see what we have to work with, k?
:wtf:
Doc Holliday
22-07-04, 20:57
thanks marx. my sentiments exactly.
In keeping with the way the topic has gone u should read this thread (http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=103629)
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 20:57
yep thats right lets just leave it and hope that KK do something lets not try and help ourselves. lets just sit around and bitch about the lack of players eh. i really dont know why i bother sometimes
yep thats right lets just leave it and hope that KK do something lets not try and help ourselves. lets just sit around and bitch about the lack of players eh. i really dont know why i bother sometimesFixing MC5 now won't get us more players... Last time I checked there isn't a line of people extending beyond the corner.
MC5 as it stands now isn't really different than the original method of being dropped in your apartment. You're confused, clueless, and worried that you did something wrong. However, one big change that has occured since MC5 has been released, is the online publication of information.
I have no pity for a person who's confused and doesn't at least try and find out whats going on. If the persons attention span is so limited that after going to a room with a spinning blue thing they're horribly lost and decide to quit, I don't want them playing this game and I'm glad they stopped while they were ahead.
All we can do is wait, if MC5 still sucks come DoY, go and grab your army or whatever it is you're planning on doing... We can also continue to voice our worries over what MC5 will shape up to be.
We don't know whats going on, KK will take their time in letting us know when they feel like it. Players will see first hand what the new MC5 is like come DoY beta... And if its sucks, I hope that KK continues to work on it...
But I reiterate, we don't know, and trying to fix right now whats going to be overhauled in the future is a wasted effort.
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 21:05
Well you just lost 4 new members because of the shitty system NOW. and they wont be returning for DOY. and frankly if i started a game that i was only intrested in. and found the first few steps to be nothing but stupid and annoying why would i stay? well i wouldnt and they didnt that 4 i know. how many others have done exactly the same?
Well you just lost 4 new members because of the shitty system NOW. and they wont be returning for DOY. and frankly if i started a game that i was only intrested in. and found the first few steps to be nothing but stupid and annoying why would i stay? well i wouldnt and they didnt that 4 i know. how many others have done exactly the same?I don't care, I don't think alot of other people care either.
Oh wait! Four players? Four players you say? Oh, thought you said fourty. Sucks your friends have short attention spans and you lacked the patience to walk 'em though.
If marketing goes well, we'll get a whole lot more people, if KK did well, they will start through a nice player-friendly MC5.
But once again, we have to wait and see. The amount of possible players coming between now and the BDoY release will be nil - and not worth the effort of fixing MC5 now as opposed to tinkering with it through the BDoY beta.
I don't care, I don't think alot of other people care either.
Oh wait! Four players? Four players you say? Oh, thought you said fourty. Sucks your friends have short attention spans and you lacked the patience to walk 'em though.
If marketing goes well, we'll get a whole lot more people, if KK did well, they will start through a nice player-friendly MC5.
But once again, we have to wait and see. The amount of possible players coming between now and the BDoY release will be nil - and not worth the effort of fixing MC5 now as opposed to tinkering with it through the BDoY beta.
Its possible that is the most ego overblown crock of shit I have ever heard. I helped a true noob just yesterday. I know he was a true noob as he still had points in resist psi lol. There are still new people coming to the game they just dont hang around very long as the tread starter was pointing out.
4 players here and there after a few months could double the population of pluto.
Its possible that is the most ego overblown crock of shit I have ever heard. I helped a true noob just yesterday. I know he was a true noob as he still had points in resist psi lol. There are still new people coming to the game they just dont hang around very long as the tread starter was pointing out.
4 players here and there after a few months could double the population of pluto.nil = low, close to nothing, nothing.
It really isn't worth the effort if they already have it fixed with their current BDoY model.
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 21:53
yep 4 players. well thats only 10% of the average pluto population. and u think its only my friends then ure stupider than you sound. you keep telling ureself that everything will be ok that by some miricle everything will turn out ok. and while u think that the new players will be leaving and playing games that actually appear to give a shit about new players.
Nid or whoever please close this thread.
you keep telling ureself that everything will be ok that by some miricle everything will turn out ok.You keep telling yourself that trying to completely fix MC5 6ish weeks before the complete BDoY overhaul is released will save the game.
Note I never said everything will be ok - I said we have to wait and see. But I guess to you it's all the same. "ITS NOT AGREEING WITH ME SO IT MUST BE AGAINST ME"
Syntax-Error
22-07-04, 21:57
Put that ego back on its leash already :rolleyes:
Put that ego back on its leash already :rolleyes:
Ego = promotion of self or material of self.
a.)An exaggerated sense of self-importance.
b.)Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.
My ego is nowhere in this conversation.
:wtf:
Shadow Dancer
22-07-04, 23:14
omg Marx stop talking about yourself. :p
I think FN had some kickass ideas. FN you should PM Ratman with those ideas, for real.
I think FN had some kickass ideas. FN you should PM Ratman with those ideas, for real.
M'eh. I guess I'll PM him a link to the post - but you know as well as I do it'll just be bytes of data that will never make it into the game. Ew. I'm pessimistic, eh? Ty tho :)
omg Marx stop talking about yourself. :p
I'm reading through it all, I can't see it.
I'M FREAKIN' OUT MAN!
http://dirtynuke.net/images/andre_vippolis2-thumb.jpg
trigger hurt
23-07-04, 00:55
I would agree to this, I left neocron a year ago, however came back last week and reactivated my account. (Got sick of CS ;) )
Toilet-Duck..
Did I ever play TFC with you and hang out in #clantmp on irc?
name would be Axiom
THE worst gripe i have for new players is very simple.
All the weapons (apart from monk gear) you can buy is utter crap.
All the guns / drones to buy are 'shabby' or 'poor' at around 25% quality, costs up to 50,000nc for a weapon
Why cant there be at least 50% normal gear?
You seem to forget Newbie 1 manages to save up 4,000 nc and buys a pistol, and not only is it crap with terrible damage, and terrible rate of fire - but it also breaks after around 200 bullets.
YAY what a waste of cash and time.
Ah but you can get it researched and constructed - so you have a better version !
Where in gods name does it tell a newbie that? hmmm ?
And trying to find a tradeskiller on some lower population servers (pluto / venus) is absolutely diabolical.
I've been playing a long time, and recently started a char on another server for a little 'holiday' - trying to scrape stuff together not knowing anyone is an absolute nightmare.
It's really no wonder why we get no real new players that last beyond the 10 day trials is it?
4) There is no comparison between the help recieved from other games. neocron is apparently one of the worst for new player support. remember not everyone reads the forums for hours before playing
5) There is no "mentor" system which would greatly improve the new player experience.
6) New players feel unwanted. and get easily frustrated with the lack of support or help with the game. both from KK and from the community ingame
hmm forgot to check post age, thinks this is kinda old, but withoud reading everything I'll just add a few of my comments.
I think that when you take the effort to actualy read the manual AND story you'll be thrilled enough to continue trough any type of problem, your imagination should already be pounding your brain out.
Only thing I ever needed as a newbie almost 1.5yrs ago was neocron.ems.ru, I figured out the other stats and there uses trough learning... which was a major part of the fun factor.
There are also alot of char creation and setup guides around to solve that problem, if its to little effort to look them up on google this game might just not be for you.
The mentor is your fellow player, and so far thats worked out for anyone ingame :p (its multiplay so you gotta make friends anyway :p) - perhaps pluto is special or something, but I always see people (incl myself) reacting to n00b questions on help channel... helping the person out as good as (quickly) possible.
Players feel unwanted... no suprise with almost complete server populations capped, we need more n00bie lowbies so they can hunt together more and figure stuff out - no fun on your own, so thats missing now... but I gues thats a never ending circle that perhaps will be broken with nc2...
The best "new player" experience I've ever had was in Anarchy Online. From what I recall - I created my character on a space ship, then was shipped down to the landing site on the planet. When I got there I was in an airport full of NPCs, all with similar stories of just landing there or employees who knew stuff. When you left the port you basically went through one of three doors to pick your "faction". Once you went through that you were spawned into a "noob" ground where you could start killing like butterflies and rats and stuff.
Yes AO's newbie experience was good, but its worth pointing out that it wasnt like that at launch. Originally you just created your character, picked your faction (all without really knocking what and why) and got dumped in the backyard - For my first couple of logins I thought the backyard was the whole game!!!! (very nearly quit at that point).
If you were lucky and playing during primetime you might have got a visit from an ARK (player helper) greeter who went through the ropes with you - other than that you were on your own (experienced players/characters were no where to be found since it was a newbie zone)
SWG's newbie experience was pretty good (and has since got better with the helper droids) but I think the 'best out of the box' award has to go to City of Heroes so far (but having said that its not a very complicated game.....)
not really apartment you were right there with people around to help, mc5 is ajust an abandond zone
Without trying to split hairs theres a considerable difference between a 'new player tutorial' that explains the game automatically and the player starting in a location where experienced players will [hopefully] be and will [hopefully] take the time out to explain things to the newbie
Sure MC5 is devoid of any players, but the point is that MC5 should be capable of providing the player with the basic info to play the game and leave MC5 then its down to other players to help the guy out.
If youre looking for a system where existing players help a newbie then sure the 'dump in apartment' approach was better (assuming the guy worked out how to leave), but that system still falls down if there are no players around (or they cant/wont help)
By contrast an MC5-style approach should be self contained and shouldnt need the participation of existing players
I've said this in the past:
Right now you can run around the entire zone and only catch a swarm of flies which are a pain in the arse to kill because of the speed they move in.
The place looks pretty cool to level, but it needs to be friendlier to the newbie. As a 0/2, a turd even moves faster. So maybe something like a bonus that gives +10AGL/ATH
Bigger (flesh) mobs. Right now only the snakes drop meat. the MC5 victims are 25/25 and hurt more than a Aggressor Captain (37/37 ??), at least they shoot a heck of alot faster. All other mobs are flies, dragonflies, and other tiny critters you can't see at a distance. Making you run to deserted places. It would be fun to see smaller (but still huge in comparison with current mobs) chasers, hopper, warbots and other stuff. Like the Tacholiym Warbot (might be a little high at 45/45) and the Galopticus Somethingus. It needs mobs that make newbs go piss their pants and make teams to take it down.
The mobs that are Higher level, will also drop higher TL junk, making it possible to make new guns.
Mini wasteland. The zone is huge, so maybe it can be divided into parts(IF the engine supports that, not sure?). like swamps, canyons steppe, and grasslands. not divided by zonelines but just a transition between the different wasteland stylesif this + 'event triggers' (eg you walk towards the first critter you see you get a quick explanation on how to take it down, what those levels means, etc)
it would be 50x better than it currently is. It would be fun to cave with other /10's I'd think.
MC5 could be so much better. My first minutes in neocron were in my apt crashing because I was right clicking my Neoterm. after 6 times crashing I figured out I had to set it to software acceleration.. :/
After a few weeks I first went out into the wastelands (squeeky door opening :D) and got blasted by the stormbots because I was carrying my sword while running away from that dragonfly..
Syntax-Error
23-07-04, 11:52
Well when i first joined there was a character there from a clan. in the newbie MC5 helping people out. its helped us alot. been able to ask all the stupid questions and get sensible answers. hehe it was great. but apparently KK have now stopped that happening. no real idea why but i tried and tried to convince them into letting us in. to no avail.
It bothers me sometimes.
I have friends that are hardcore MMORPG players, EQ, SWG, etc, and they are hardcore Counterstrike players.
It happens quite frequently that they watch me play it, and ask questions about our beloved game. It usually goes like this:(Saturn, anyway):
Friend: What are you doing?
Menolak:Im looking for a ________(insert trade skiller here)..
F:Why?
M: Well, the um..uh..rollback yeaterday means that I don't have my 5 slot Holy Lightning anymore....Cool..see, i found a constructor! Aw shit, 0 slots...or Aw shit, he disconnected with my rare...
F:Okay....(less enthusiatic)
M: That's ok, though, i got more parts, no big deal..(with a big speech on the positive points)
Look, watch this..that's a warbot...See, i just owned him and got 2 rare parts from inside.
F: wow, I guess that's pretty cool.. (Happy again)
M: Oh shit! An enemy..(A quick battle follows, enemy lies dead, PPU comes buy and rezs him..the buddy's tripping out...interested again...
F: Wow's that's cool
We go to Chaos...
F: geez, those things look nasty...
M: Yeah, normally you would have a team..
F: So how come you don't need one?
M: Well, cause I'm a hybrid Psi, I can be God if I follow the right recipe..
Friend thinks i'm cheating,clearly suspicious of a game that would let one class own all others, despite numerous nerfs.
F: So how does levellling work..Oh yeah? that's a cool looking interface...
How long does it take to cap?
M: Well, if you do this this and this...you'll be capped in..what time is it now?
F:oh.....
M: No, no, you're misunderstanding, see...it's all to get ya ready for the REAL game...Outpost wars..pure PvP (explains OP bonuses, clans, etc)
F: oh...(interested, but still sceptical)
M: look, Ill show ya....(heads to the nearest OP war in progress)
FRE
LAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
crash
crash
synchro into body of PE
crazy FPS, targets almost impossible to track
F:hmmm.well....I see..
M:hey, there's a free trial...
F:oh, you PAY for this?Ok...
Later, friend is looking for his resumé that he did on my PC..comes across trailer for BDoy....
Nail in coffin.
Sorry for the long post.I'm saddened.
Dargeshaad
23-07-04, 12:48
You know they could make the entire MC5 give an OP bonus of +50 ATL/AGI or something, that way it would be faster to get around, and it wouldn't be so bad to die since you could run back to your backpack relatively fast.
Shadow Dancer
23-07-04, 19:03
I wish everyone ran at capped speed when not having a weapon equipped.
I wish everyone ran at capped speed when not having a weapon equipped.give the man a cookie! :D
but like my friends said. if it wasnt for the help they would have never got ANYWHERE. not all players are happy to wander around lost for 3 hours having no idea what to do. there is NO help for new players. a mentor system would work wonders, but KK wont allow that ive asked before apparently they dont want players interacting with new players.
I wish NC was like Anarchy Online, when I started that I had no idea what to do lol but about 5 min after starting a CSR walks up and asks if he can help me in any way, and spent a good 30 min explaining the game and how to start, then said if I needed any more help just use a command and another rep would come as soon as he/she could :D
Then a guy starts chatting to me and gives me a complete good pistol set and armour so I was all set to start
I would love NC to have support like that :D:D
funkeymonkey
23-07-04, 23:05
A good tutorial and MUCH better char creation would be good.
A step-by-step char creation (no not like the one there is) should be good
Look at SW:G, they got about the same but still MUCH better...
Benjie is that a foot?
Could stick a link to an player guide on the start page of the neocron launcher.
We could turn this thread into a 10+ page thread of members ideas to make this game better for noobs, but it would just be a big waste of our time as nothing would come of it.
You got all that help in AO? I got fuck all help, i asked somebody if they knew why i was constantly locked onto mobs and how i could get out of the starting area, all he said was "Yes" then ran off. Suppose noobs to neocron get the same deal.
Clothing_Option
23-07-04, 23:40
WHen i started playing 13 months ago
I liked the MC5 experience. It was a puzzle you just had to figure out.
ALso at that time there where High lvle highbrids and PPus there you could talk to. How they got in there i have no idea but they were freindly and i was mezmerised by thier spells. I was like wow how can i do that.
The game only became frustrating for me cause i didnt take out my LE chip right away and obviously didnt join a clan and i didnt know anyone ingame.
And i spent many many hours killing poison plants which i find funny now.
Once i took out my le and hooked up with other players the game was addicting.
To me the key to this game is hooking up with other players who actually know how to play the game. Then the clouds will part.
Dirk_Gently
24-07-04, 00:00
I never read the insturctions for games so didn't realise that it wasn't my fault I didn't know what was happening.
As for greeters/helpers on other games, they are great if you can find one.
Syntax-Error
24-07-04, 00:00
true there was a clanned tank there and i remember the first comment i came out with in true noob fashion "are you a gm?" :D :D
We need to have some support. not later not "lets wait and hope someone else dose something" i mean now.
btw whoever it was who said KK was fixing MC5 i still would REALLY like a link to that info cos im intrested what they have planned.
btw whoever it was who said KK was fixing MC5 i still would REALLY like a link to that info cos im intrested what they have planned.
Item 1.10 (http://neocron.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NeoContent&file=index&pageID=190).
Doc Holliday
24-07-04, 01:18
and for the lazy people and the ones who flamed earlier in the thread at my response to this.
The introduction of newcomers to the game will be completely redesigned. After creating a character, you will be taken through a (skippable) tutorial. The tutorial explains all of the game's important functions and introduces you to the world of Neocron. At the end of the tutorial, the character is taken prisoner by Copbots and, after being brainwashed, wakes up in Area MC5.
During the course of the game the player will receive several emails that will provide him with (for example) information about his new skills or tips on how to develop his skills for his profession etc. If a player decides to change his character's direction later on, it will be possible to adjust his profession in his character profile and the game will provide him with the appropriate help emails
Yay for more negative rep :rolleyes:
Syntax-Error
27-07-04, 02:07
Right so theres a tutorial. one step and a good one. but no where in there dose it say there going to change MC5 atall. So your argument has proven itself to be wrong :/
Anyhow. how about we concentrate on helping newbies rather than bitch about people ideas eh
but no where in there dose it say there going to change MC5 atall. So your argument has proven itself to be wrong :/
The introduction of newcomers to the game will be completely redesigned:wtf:
Anyhow. how about we concentrate on helping newbies rather than bitch about people ideas ehWhy don't you just wait and see what happens? I mean, you don't seem to be the first in line to help people... So...
Syntax-Error
27-07-04, 03:03
Well ill tell u what. why complain about un-balance ingame. why not just wait and see what happens. why complain about bugs. why not just wait and see what happens. why ask for new things added why not just wait and see what happens.
See where im coming from? KK are not well known for doing things right the first couple of times. and neither are they known for listening to the community unless we make a real fuss.
Well ill tell u what. why complain about un-balance ingame. why not just wait and see what happens. why complain about bugs. why not just wait and see what happens. why ask for new things added why not just wait and see what happens.
See where im coming from? KK are not well known for doing things right the first couple of times. and neither are they known for listening to the community unless we make a real fuss
People have been bitching about MC5 since it came out... KK knew it was shotty, or else they wouldn't admit it was faulty by stating they're improving the ideas behind it. Whats the point of bitching about it again and expecting something to be done immediately when something is already being done about it? Sure, we can continue to bitch... But without fact it's a truly asinine concept... Because for all we know all our complaints have already been dealt with; of course on the other hand it might not have been... How do we know? If they ignored all the bitching done up to this point - what makes you think that they would care about this post?
As far as I can tell, we've already made our fuss. Hopefully, those beta testers who were lucky enough to get pulled will also make a fuss if its not up to snuff. They're the ones who will dictate how MC5 and the new newbie experience pans out.
Frankly, MC5 right now is as bad as it can possibly be while still being playable... Unless they want to outright break the zone, I don't see any possible way of it getting worse come DoY.
Syntax-Error
27-07-04, 03:25
Well im just remembering the last time they said they had upgraded MC5. they added some signs. and a few shitty npcs ( which are now used for levelin i see btw :D )
I just dont trust them atall with MC5. and u mite aswell forget the rest of the game if no new players join :(
Being a n00b recently(and still very much am), I gotta say MC5 was a bit of a waste. The creatures were few and far between and the one mission "building" had 2 aggroing robots in there that, unless you knew what you were doing(which most n00bs won't) would kill you, very quickly. That's not a good way to start off your existence.
As for the City... A lot of people have no idea how huge the game's area really is, as it seems like you are in the city forever before being able to venture outside. You goto sewer level 1, then 2, then 3 then 4 blah blah blah. Not very exciting at all. If after all that, you are not bored outta your skull and claustrophobic by then, you may be able to make it outside(if you don't get splattered by the guards if you forgot or don't know to holster your weapon). Once outside, it's a whole new world.
My advice would be to get people OUSIDE the city, as fast as possible. There is so much out there and so much to see. Create a low level section OUTSIDE the city and give them missions that make them use the subway and make them venture outside, right from the start. This will give them a taste of what's in store for them and what to look forward to, instead of thinking they will be burried in the sewers forever.
Just my 2 cents.
Syntax-Error
27-07-04, 22:20
not a bad idea. but if you throw them into the big ole wastelands theres a very big chance they will quit just as fast because theres nothing out there that they can stand a chance against.
not a bad idea. but if you throw them into the big ole wastelands theres a very big chance they will quit just as fast because theres nothing out there that they can stand a chance against.
That's why I said they need to create lowbie areas, outside the city. Possibly even change some of the spawns, so that the stuff near some exits are lowbie stuff. The game needs to wet people's appetite for more by giving them a taste of what's in store. The sewers are not it.
Syntax-Error
27-07-04, 22:32
Agreed i hate the sewers with a passion. MC5 could be made great. aslong as its actually made as a newbie leveling area. not just what feels like a fill in for something else.
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