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Marx
21-07-04, 19:57
Alright, everyone who frequents the forums know I'm one of those anti-PPU necessity folk, while its nice to have them, they shouldn't be the say all be all of wasteland survival.

I propose a new dexterity based skill, called support. It would have several purposes, so I'll just list 'em out.

1.) Persons with 'Support' skills can make drugs, even the illegal kind. Of course, they will need to have a blueprint of the drug item. They can use the medical substances to build the drugs by using a special tool called a "Chemical Nano-processor".

The TL will determine the recipe of the drug, while the player skill could determine the amount produced.

1a.) New drugs would be introduced, varying potions would be added, and use of more than 5 drugs at a time will cause most certain doom for the player who took the drugs. This will cut down on people uberfying themselves through drugs, and will also bring back that element of risk to using drugs.

1b.) Failed drug build attempts will not simply stop and produce nothing - it will produce bad drugs. These drugs, when taken will do random things... Sometimes good, more often bad. This would also allow players to take joy in experimenting, because we know alot of people would.

2.) Another new set of tools specifcally for healing would be added. This could be done several ways, I prefer the earlier idea outlined by moi, and the more recent one outlined by Glok.


Create five types of medic kits. Imagine this:

First Reponder Bag: TL 10, when capped it would provide the equivalent to a capped TL 3 heal (105 / 15sec).
Trauma Kit: TL 32, when capped it would provide the healing equivalent (i'd prefer a wee bit higher) to a capped TL 15 heal group (120ish / 15 sec)
Paramedic Bag: TL 60, when capped it would provide the healing equivalent to a capped TL 52 blessed heal (315 / 15 sec) - Can also provide anti-poison treatment.
Portable ICU kit (PICUK): TL 90, when capped it would provide the healing equivalent to a capped TL 85 holy heal (450 / 15 sec) - can also provide anti-poison treatment.
Field Doctor Bag (RARE MED PACK): Figure it would be around TL 90ish, maybe a wee bit higher. Would make for a better heal than the PICUK, but would also be able to be used to raise the dead! Can also provide anti-poison treatment.
Ok, a pretty simple idea. Medic needles of various types. I figure 3 types for a start:

1) TL35) Heals target player for 150 Health
2) TL52) Resurrects target player
3) TL90) Resurrects and restores 150 Health to target player2a.) I would say that it would have a damage stat like weapons, and the more skill, obviously the better the heal, etc. This would make a person who has alot of support skill desirable - granted not neccesarily for OP wars, but more definately for hunting.

Both of these items would have limited range, think poking. They would also become widely used among spies and tanks. PE's can also do it, but would generally have to become a pure support class.

2b.) Make there be some sort of benefit between implanting and 'Support'. Just like the connection between hack and remote control, I think it would be a common sensical relationship. A person who knows how to imp will no doubt have at least some basic knowledge of medicine. A person with an advanced knowledge in medicine will obviously have some idea about implanting.

---

In the end, what will this accomplish?

Eliminate the absolute neccesity of the PPU for daily actions.
Make sense, how does a ball of light fix someones wounds?
Make for more varied combat and hunting setups
Create a new tradeskill
Stimulate production and trafficking of legal and illegal narcotics
Give players something to do (experiement with drugs :) )
Prevent people from taking advantage of drugs with little to no risk
Create a new class of support players
Thoughts, feelings, ideas?

/edit - Going to quote pertinent questions and responses here so that those people who pop in on page X without reading the thread don't think that what they thought is a new and or unique problem after its already been dealt with.




Yep, absolutely 5 stars idea.

Some quick questions:

1- Will these supporters be able to use this skill on themselves?
2- Is this skill supposed to have a process time (cast time)?
3- Regarding the drug creation, what will happen with construction and recycling recipes for this matter?

That's all. I love it.1.) No.
2.) Depends. I don't really see that occuring on the lower TL medical items, but the upper level... Most definately, I suck at determining cast times, so I'd let someone else brainwork through that.
3.) I think construct/recycle would lose precendence really. I personally hope that recycling becomes a more popular tradeskill since right now it just about consists of cloning ammo.

All just a matter of taste I guess.

Glok
21-07-04, 20:03
Yes, yes, yes. And I'm not just saying that cause you liked my idea. :D

Sleawer
21-07-04, 20:05
Yep, absolutely 5 stars idea.

Some quick questions:

1- Will these supporters be able to use this skill on themselves?
2- Is this skill supposed to have a process time (cast time)?
3- Regarding the drug creation, what will happen with construction and recycling recipes for this matter?

That's all. I love it.

Marx
21-07-04, 20:09
Yep, absolutely 5 stars idea.

Some quick questions:

1- Will these supporters be able to use this skill on themselves?
2- Is this skill supposed to have a process time (cast time)?
3- Regarding the drug creation, what will become with construction and recycling recipes for this matter?

That's all. I love it.1.) No.
2.) Depends. I don't really see that occuring on the lower TL medical items, but the upper level... Most definately, I suck at determining cast times, so I'd let someone else brainwork through that.
3.) I think construct/recycle would lose precendence really. I personally hope that recycling becomes a more popular tradeskill since right now it just about consists of cloning ammo.

All just a matter of taste I guess.

Ozambabbaz
21-07-04, 20:10
Ubaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

5 star ideas, keep on trucking 8|

StryfeX
21-07-04, 20:26
Hell yeah. This would be a great idea.

One thing I might add to the mix though... *Do* make it self-usable, but only at 1/2 the power for the first 2 and even 1/3 for the last 2. (Also no self-resurrecting obviously.)

5 stars regardless.

--Stryfe

Maarten
21-07-04, 21:12
I don't see a tank playing a medic on the battlefield though... I would think the skill should be under INT instead of DEX. Or keep it under DEX and give the tools also an INT requirement. Being brought back from the dead by a no-brain gentank doesn't feel right... ;)

And I also assume these tools cannot stack with a PPU based heal spell.

I like the idea, but it's gonna need some major balancing before it could be added to the game. This would not be a small new feature...

Marx
21-07-04, 21:16
I don't see a tank playing a medic on the battlefield though... I would think the skill should be under INT instead of DEX. Or keep it under DEX and give the tools also an INT requirement. Being brought back from the dead by a no-brain gentank doesn't feel right... ;)

And I also assume these tools cannot stack with a PPU based heal spell.

I like the idea, but it's gonna need some major balancing before it could be added to the game. This would not be a small new feature...Well, first off it's hard for a tank to reach 90-100 dex while still posing a viable combat threat. So if you used the method I prescriped as opposed to Gloks, it wouldn't really be an issue. Because figure yeah, they'll have decent agility, and also decent Tech Combat... The amount they have in the possible 'Support' subskill would be decent, but nowhere near enough to beat out a PPU or a spy with that skill laid out like a tradeskill.

The way I see it, medical skills would be bred into the tanks so as they can provide quick effective care on the battlefield.

I don't feel it should stack with ppu based heal spells, that's almost cheating in my view. :P

Yes, it needs to be polished... But since most of us don't know the limitations of the game itself, most of the polishing would have to be done on the other side.

hivemind
21-07-04, 21:17
I don't see a tank playing a medic on the battlefield though... I would think the skill should be under INT instead of DEX. Or keep it under DEX and give the tools also an INT requirement. Being brought back from the dead by a no-brain gentank doesn't feel right... ;)
DING! WINNAR!

Maarten
21-07-04, 21:21
You're right. I had Glok's suggestion in my mind when I posted that reply. Your suggestion is only the rare tool can rezz, so that would be no problem indeed... Makes me think about RtCW where a medic runs around with medkits and some kind of drug to "rezz" people... :)

You see a spy kneeling at a corpse saying "Gimme some room, please people. CLEAR!". ZAAPP!. "We have a pulse! He's coming back!"

:D

Glok
21-07-04, 21:27
Hm? My original post had the medic needles requiring imp skill. No tanks allowed (bar imping melee tanks, but they couldn't reach the 3rd proposed needle anyways...) Also the TLs could be adjusted.

Carinth
21-07-04, 21:35
There most definitly should be a subclass of Spies called Medics or somethign similar. Way to much responsibility is placed on a single class right now. The catch though is that it must impair combat. A Medic Spy should not be able to fight. Psi right now is more or less balanced so different classes have different defensive powers. Adding a DEX based defensive system will upset things quite a bit. Even though you're only including rez and heal in this, heal alone is a huge defensive boost. In the DEX realm, spies are obviously the best, but both Tanks and PE's are quite high. PE's can use rifle/pistol rares quite well, Tanks can even use some rifle/pistol rares aswell. With PSI only Monks have any high level ability. The closest is PE's but they're not even at the mid level monk status. Spies/Tanks get by with the most basic PSI.

What I'm saying is that, it would be very easy to way unbalance the classes unless you made this have super high Dex Reqs. Tanks should only be capable of using the basic Dex heal, PE's can maybe use a moderate heal, but it should only be the spies using anything higher, including Rez. And the ability to do that should severely limit their offensive capabilities.

Neo LoneWolf
21-07-04, 22:02
Would it cause such a problem if the medical skills need to be constantly applied, instead of a fire-and-forget manner?

So, in order to heal someone, you would need to be stood next to them and continuously healing them (with each different level of tool giving different amounts of health per unit of time). Once you walked away, their health remained as it is. In this way, you would be forced to disengage from combat in order to heal up (as opposed to PPUs . . . ).

Throwing in an additional int req allows you to easily seperate the different effects that each class can achieve.

Marx
21-07-04, 22:12
Would it cause such a problem if the medical skills need to be constantly applied, instead of a fire-and-forget manner?Not neccesarily. If a person has to constantly be saved from the brink of death, then their fighting style is very suspect. This would in no way grant the player 'god mode' as PPU supervision does, but it certainly would assist in after-action cleaning up, and emergency healing. There would still be the obvious risk of death... But this game offers one thing that no other MMO really offers, the use of cover. ;)

Wisely used cover mixed with a knowledgable medic would be beneficial to all.


So, in order to heal someone, you would need to be stood next to them and continuously healing them (with each different level of tool giving different amounts of health per unit of time). Once you walked away, their health remained as it is. In this way, you would be forced to disengage from combat in order to heal up (as opposed to PPUs . . . ).Well, the way I figure it being in regards to my healing kits it would be akin to PPU heals with a cast time and healing period, the only drawback would be the fact that you have to be comparitively close to the target... I don't know what Glok expected of his healing tools.


Throwing in an additional int req allows you to easily seperate the different effects that each class can achieve.Well, in regards to my kits, just the amount of 'damage' acheived by the classes will seperate it enough really. Imagine these as Psi spells, a PE would have to devote just about all his or her dex to cap the TL 90 medkit, whileas a tank would easily be able to be combat viable and still toss in enough to maybe nearly cap the TL 10 medkit. It would be damned near impossible for the tank to acheive 90-100 dex and be combat viable at the same time.

Monks could do this, and perhaps if done right it could be the easy way to raise monk dex.

Perhaps Glok could further expand on his medi-needle plot since it is his idea.

:)

Glok
21-07-04, 22:19
I saw the ressurection as instant and the healing ticking for 10 or 15 seconds, like a ppu heal. No 'cast' time for the reason that unlike PPUs who can support from a distance, the medic in this case would have to enter melee distance. In most situations this would put him/her under fire and possibly among the enemy. It would take a brave medic to rush into a hostile force and poke a fallen comrade, even without a cast time. I'm open to modifications, of course. If this was implemened, it could turn out a cast time is necessary.

Q`alooaith
21-07-04, 22:21
I'd suggest ballancing the tool's by making them heavy, so a combat char would have to ditch some resist force to be able to carry all the medix kit and ammo for his nuG.


Great idea, I'm sure I had one like it too not long ago....

:p