View Full Version : good job with the hybrids kk..........
wow why did they even bother unerfing them...... ITs cool when you fight a monk who takes ppu dmg and whips out a psi attack 2 when your dmg boost and owns you. I dont see what the point of unerfing them was when theres no way for someone to kill the solo unless your a hybrid.. O yay
if your gonna do a boost like that boost something other then melee plz, *cough like the dev
rofl, you lost one fight and your moaning?
on my tank ive beaten hybrids.
maybe the hybrids with blessed defences are a pain, but the damage ive seen them do is not that great
dude ezza this was no normal hybird, i havent had problems in the past or even with the last patch yet, but psi attack 2 is A MONSTER OMFG
rofl, you lost one fight and your moaning?
on my tank ive beaten hybrids.
maybe the hybrids with blessed defences are a pain, but the damage ive seen them do is not that great
I agree now you either have good defence and reasonable attack or good attack and reasonable defence
you can't have both now and I think that they are now balanced :)
dude ezza this was no normal hybird, i havent had problems in the past or even with the last patch yet, but psi attack 2 is A MONSTER OMFG
hmm ok, i presume were still talking blessed buffs, not at home so cant work the setup out.
ill try a psi attack 2 see what i can see not seen it used tbh.
so ill withhold further comments, but i dont like the generalisation of hybrids, as you say this wasnt a normal hybrid.
out of interest are you a HC tank that has all str in HC? lack of force resist could be the reason it pwned you
psi attack 2 does force dmg supposedly which is bs seeing i need all the hc i can get just to aim the cs and get a decent frequency
Its PPU based hybrids who are overpowered again. They got great defense, can outheal most weapons and can damageboost and parashock you. And a damageboosted, parashocked enemy is pretty easy to to kill. Even with a rather crappy offense like psi attack. And that spell fucking hurts!
Not to mention that multi lightning spell, ive seen hybrids taking down several ppl at once without any problems. DB sanctum, slap on a heal, then just blast away. No way to counter or outheal that spell. AND NO AIMING REQUIRED. Not to forget it also hits stealthed spies. o_O
I dont care about APU based hybrids, like PE defenses and quite high offense. Those are balanced imo.
well ya its the ppu based one, i dont think the hl one is overpowered. ezza i dont use pa and have like 40 psu so i need all str in hc, maybe if they make cs not a bitch to cap i would take less, its not really the aiming for me its the frequency, cuz i mean if someone fres you gotta lay the smack down real quick :P
well ya its the ppu based one, i dont think the hl one is overpowered. ezza i dont use pa and have like 40 psu so i need all str in hc, maybe if they make cs not a bitch to cap i would take less, its not really the aiming for me its the frequency, cuz i mean if someone fres you gotta lay the smack down real quick :P
haha, ya im with you on the tank issue, they shouldnt have to pile all str into HC to cap our weapons.
Hybrids are fine...they're not god like they used to be, right?
I think everybody will never be completely happy...
I'm actually gonna make another hybrid, I kinda regret LOM'ing Tomalak into pure APU....
If I had a DS and a Kami, I'd show you guys a setup that would own the server :)
nothing like a hybrid with good con, good defences, and cap on HL/FA :)
(You can have good resists with a Kami, at the price of running as fast as old people fuck)
Hybrids are fine...they're not god like they used to be, right?
I think everybody will never be completely happy...
I'm actually gonna make another hybrid, I kinda regret LOM'ing Tomalak into pure APU....
If I had a DS and a Kami, I'd show you guys a setup that would own the server :)
nothing like a hybrid with good con, good defences, and cap on HL/FA :)
(You can have good resists with a Kami, at the price of running as fast as old people fuck)
even with the -40 ppu ?
hmm ok, i presume were still talking blessed buffs, not at home so cant work the setup out.
ill try a psi attack 2 see what i can see not seen it used tbh.
so ill withhold further comments, but i dont like the generalisation of hybrids, as you say this wasnt a normal hybrid.
out of interest are you a HC tank that has all str in HC? lack of force resist could be the reason it pwned you
I think I've seen the hybrid in question myself. Watched him run around being parashocked with a Judge PE and a PPU trying to kill him, didn't break a sweat. Even put a PPU PA on and and tried to rezz me under fire (he didn't need the PA to cast S/D/H though).
Manderf, you do have a point since Psi Attack 2 is oddly powerful for its TL. But you need to rethink your setup. You can still come out with 200 RoF on CS with capped frc/prc. You lose some aiming yes, but with enough practice you should be holding a lock anyway, so the aiming difference doesn't count for much. If you choose to get as high stats as possible then you choose to have low resistance to frc/prc, it's just the way it is. You don't have to cap a weapon to be effective - I bet that hybrid is far from capping his Psi Attack 2.
omg u die without resist force on a psiattack omg, thats like getting killed by hl without energy resists, put fucking resist points in or shut up ffs
a melee tank with resist force and runcast heal doesnt die with psi attack 2
and if any1 means me, im fighting without freeze, so where is the lame point? get resists and/or shut up
get resists and/or shut up
Hehehe.. i'm gonna get my ass fried when i say this :)
SPEC SOME <entertheresistuneedhere> ! :)
heres the standard setup ezza
ds / core / moveon / ppr / filter 2
hly def, blessed shelt, basic3, melee1, spy1, psi attack 2
omg u die without resist force on a psiattack omg, thats like getting killed by hl without energy resists, put fucking resist points in or shut up ffs
a melee tank with resist force and runcast heal doesnt die with psi attack 2
and if any1 means me, im fighting without freeze, so where is the lame point? get resists and/or shut upDon't be a troll.
The Blessed-level PPU-biased hybrids are a little overpowered at the moment. While it's true that someone with capped force resist is really hard for a hybrid to kill for PSI Attack 2, you can to do nothing but heal. Get a damage boost thrown on you, and you will still die after a while becuase your health will be pecked down. Not to mention that solo you don't really have much of a chance of killing said hybrid.
--Stryfe
heres the standard setup ezza
ds / core / moveon / ppr / filter 2
hly def, blessed shelt, basic3, melee1, spy1, psi attack 2k
my hybrids apu based, but i can still test the damage on the psi atk2
not got DS so couldnt test that setup anyway
im hoping there aint gonna be many nerf the hybrid threads as im enjoying playing my hybrid :(
even blessed buffed hybrids go running for zonelines.
mander, did you try using Dev on the monkey? might be wrong, but i expect his poison resist to be lower than his others
Shadow Dancer
21-07-04, 17:57
Hybrids are fine...they're not god like they used to be, right?
I think everybody will never be completely happy...
I'm actually gonna make another hybrid, I kinda regret LOM'ing Tomalak into pure APU....
If I had a DS and a Kami, I'd show you guys a setup that would own the server :)
nothing like a hybrid with good con, good defences, and cap on HL/FA :)
(You can have good resists with a Kami, at the price of running as fast as old people fuck)
You can't have good defenses and cap HL/FA.
To Mander, I agree blessed hybrids are overpowered. Low offense or not, there's no justification for an attack class to have that level of defense. It's the bless heal that's the core of the problem IMO.
I have a sexy 4 slot PSI Attack 2 :)
You can't have good defenses and cap HL/FA.
To Mander, I agree blessed hybrids are overpowered. Low offense or not, there's no justification for an attack class to have that level of defense. It's the bless heal that's the core of the problem IMO.
imo its not the defense they have i can kill a blessed hybrid about 6/10 times on my pure apu and a cs burts takes a shit load off their health the thing about them is with moveon and ppr thats ur con setup done already and no pa which makes them quick as fuck and harder to hit than drones. Well harder to hit for tanks/pe/spies
enigma_b17
21-07-04, 18:00
Hybrids are fine now, the problem with Hybrids back in the day was that they were ppus with holy lightnings. If you want a hl as a hybrid u cant get holy stuff, I think most blessed stuff would be out of reach aswell. Hybrids are beatable in 1v1, its just really hard, ive taken on a few and i think won once, but im just crap so its not a real approximation :P
It's the bless heal that's the core of the problem IMO.Exactly. You just hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't mind seeing a APU/PPU 10% (maybe less, maybe more, would need to be tested) "nerf" return to just the heals. That may actually sort out the problem.
--Stryfe
Shadow Dancer
21-07-04, 18:03
Exactly. You just hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't mind seeing a APU/PPU 10% (maybe less, maybe more, would need to be tested) "nerf" return to just the heals. That may actually sort out the problem.
--Stryfe
That's still not enough IMO. :p You shouldn't be using blessed heal in combat at all IMO. I wonder how that can be prevented though............ Maybe the bless heal interrupts when being shot at? SO if they can find some place to hide, they can still uber heal up.
can = noobsetup :p
just need my 2 psi lvl and int 4 hvy belts 8|
ok, im a hybrid with psi attack now i tell who im able to kill:
tanks without resist force and perhaps with after hours...
spys? = stealth no chance
pes? = 0 dmg really 0!
apus without ppu = izy
apus with ppu = 0 chance
so where is the class overpowerd? cause pure hc tanks die with that? but a unfreezed melee tank with resist force dont die by a hybrid
only apus cauld really get owned by hybrids and tanks without resist force, dont see the point to whine, its balanced perhaps a lil nerf of the ppu but those already will come if i understood that right so its ok (i mean the heal nerf)
imo its not the defense they have i can kill a blessed hybrid about 6/10 times on my pure apu and a cs burts takes a shit load off their health the thing about them is with moveon and ppr thats ur con setup done already and no pa which makes them quick as fuck and harder to hit than drones. Well harder to hit for tanks/pe/spies
Yeah, when they're actually attacking they're not so tough since they can't fully runcast. When they start to die and just dodge everywhere healing though it gets fairly tough for non-APUs. APUs are the hybrids worst nightmare generally though.
Exactly. You just hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't mind seeing a APU/PPU 10% (maybe less, maybe more, would need to be tested) "nerf" return to just the heals. That may actually sort out the problem.
--StryfeI'd rather see a "zero apu required" on blessed and holy heal. Couldnt think of any other way to fix them.
lol my pe dmg boosted and shocked from bleessed/psi attack 2 hybrid takes mmmmmmm about 6-8 per shot from him and lib still tears them down alot faster then they can heal, i dunno ppl maby there is no diesent hybrids on saturn but i have never had any problems with any of them......so get some good resists .......... evry rare weapon can out dmg blessed heal if u hit all the time...
on what server did u say u got pwned?
I'd rather see a "zero apu required" on blessed and holy heal. Couldnt think of any other way to fix them.Well, in the interest of diversity, I'd rather not simply axe the entire spell. My reasoning for this is if you can make a big enough dent in the damage % of the spell, it's results will be diminished enough to level the playing field.
--Stryfe
pluto, i think :angel:
runs to pluto to make pe.......now u all scued :D :lol: lol jk
i actually got n00b hybrid on pluto ^^ gotta lvl him up.....
And here we are again...
Why should a hybrid be killable 1vs1 anyway? (which they are btw)
Nothing will ever be good enough.
I mean how many hybrids are there anyway. We have here a couple of people killed and suddenly we get a bunch of people whining again that said it was ok before.
Btw, I haven't read a nerf melee thread yet this week. What is wrong? Nobody got killed by a melee this week?
And here we are again...
Why should a hybrid be killable 1vs1 anyway?
Nothing will ever be good enough.
I mean how many hybrids are there anyway. We have here a couple of people killed and suddenly we get a bunch of people whining again that said it was ok before.
Btw, I haven't read a nerf melee thread yet this week. What is wrong? Nobody got killed by a melee this week?
lol i odd to go on killing spree on me melee tank lol take some attention from hybrids lol....... :lol:
I don't think the Heal is the problem, I think it's the Damage Boost.
More and more I think that spell should be PvM only, or PE only, or something.
And here we are again...
Why should a hybrid be killable 1vs1 anyway? (which they are btw)
Nothing will ever be good enough.
I mean how many hybrids are there anyway. We have here a couple of people killed and suddenly we get a bunch of people whining again that said it was ok before.
Btw, I haven't read a nerf melee thread yet this week. What is wrong? Nobody got killed by a melee this week?If the are not killable in 1v1, that IS NOT BALANCED! I'm OK with PPUs not being killable 1v1 simply because they don't have hardly any attack, but not hybrids.
--Stryfe
heh i seen a blessed with multi energy bolt...
dmg boosted he was taking most peeps down, even well specced peeps, it took the piss i don't think he died tbh, just mullered about 7 peeps in a go cuz of the dmg sanc and multi bolt.
As for most of the others there not that bad imo just certain individuals who will soon not be so individual when them peeps start whoppin out their skill managers
If the are not killable in 1v1, that IS NOT BALANCED! I'm OK with PPUs not being killable 1v1 simply because they don't have hardly any attack, but not hybrids.
--Stryfe
but they r killable one on one, if u have right setup and some aiming skill they r easy kill(much easyer then PoB melee tank IMHO or even rav tank)
this aint hybrid, but sigg3 uses a tl49 claw (apparently) and still uses all ppu stuff to full capability. with db and para the claw seriously **********
but they r killable one on one, if u have right setup and some aiming skill they r easy kill(much easyer then PoB melee tank IMHO)Capped Lowtech Rifle PE (using PE) vs. Capped (let's say 90 INT) Blessed-level PPU-biased hybrid. Both players relatively equal skill. Give me some results.
--Stryfe
Everytime somebody got owned by some guy, either it was lack of skills or the otherguy just wound the loophole in your defences it comes to this "NERF <entertheOVERpoweredclasshere". No matter is it melee tank, hybrid, or a feekin melee spy.. you just can't make everybody happy.
And when your told to spec some missing resist it's called trolling or stfu noob, or what ever..
Hm... i should perhaps start a thread saying "OMGLOLZOR nerf the HL cause it's wrecking my tanks legs and they kill me" - NOT.....
we should just rename the thraed cauze melee tanks are overpowerd with those netcode nerf nerf nerf !!!111
@ those guy with pe
atm none of my chars really get dmg from a pain easer, that isnt a weapon, was just a joke by kk
If the are not killable in 1v1, that IS NOT BALANCED! I'm OK with PPUs not being killable 1v1 simply because they don't have hardly any attack, but not hybrids.
--Stryfe
Ok, they are killable 1vs1.. but it's hard, really hard. How do you propose they are balanced?
If you take away the heal, they will most likely be too easy to get down.
If you take away the damage boost, you'll more or less outheal the damage with a basic heal.
How easy should it be to kill a hybrid for it to be balanced?
Capped Lowtech Rifle PE (using PE) vs. Capped (let's say 90 INT) Blessed-level PPU-biased hybrid. Both players relatively equal skill. Give me some results.
--Stryfe
results = pe wins i think, i got lib pe and i fought them as long as u remember to heal up he will never kill u with psi attack 2 it does silly dmg to GOOD resists force setup.....
Shadow Dancer
21-07-04, 18:36
A blessed shelter ppr/moveon hybrid takes "shitloads" of damage from a CS? Riiiiiiight. Blessed shelter ppr/moveon is the 2nd best defense in the game, not even including heal yet.
Why should a hybrid be killable 1vs1 anyway?
You're joking right?
this aint hybrid, but sigg3 uses a tl49 claw (apparently) and still uses all ppu stuff to full capability. with db and para the claw seriously **********
Where does the 29 str come from?
As for people saying hybrids are easily killable, I feel like ya'll are fighting some bad hybrids. My kami hybrid(back before it was nerfed) only died in a 1v1 once, and that was a huge screw-up on my part. And his defense was lower then what a good blessed hybrid can get(without kami) nowadays.
Original monk
21-07-04, 18:36
if ya cant kill a blessed hybrid then go play the offline version
goddamn, always the same shit targetting at hybrids
GRRR
:mad:
I'm going to say this one more time.
Stop fucking about with hybrids.
they are balanced.
if you cant beat them, don't fight them. that way you wont get your ego hurt when you get killed by a class thats seen more nerfs then any other.
rofl, you lost one fight and your moaning?
on my tank ive beaten hybrids.
maybe the hybrids with blessed defences are a pain, but the damage ive seen them do is not that great
How have you beated a hybrid?
Once they para you, then DB you it IS game over. You shure you arent refering to some NF dual where you dont use paras?
And Omnituens they almost CANT be balanced, once u DB someone your normal Modules hit for almost Rare Mod dmg, then you also have Para and insane heals? There almost isnt any reward for being a Pure anymore except your stuff has swirlies all the time.
-Crono
How have you beated a hybrid?
Once they para you, then DB you it IS game over. You shure you arent refering to some NF dual where you dont use paras?
And Omnituens they almost CANT be balanced, once u DB someone your normal Modules hit for almost Rare Mod dmg, then you also have Para and insane heals? There almost isnt any reward for being a Pure anymore except your stuff has swirlies all the time.
-Crono
lol all hybrids can use is para halo and it barly slows u down so that should not be argument and as i said before if it's psi attack 2 hybrid u(not u specific...all of u) better have some force resists otherwise u scrued and in that case dont bother to post here and say that hybrids overpowered just cuz er have NO resists.....
once u DB someone
then they should have damageblocker drugs
oh wait you dont have them?
your own fault
i use them on my spy, very effective.
omg u die without resist force on a psiattack omg, thats like getting killed by hl without energy resists, put fucking resist points in or shut up ffs
a melee tank with resist force and runcast heal doesnt die with psi attack 2
and if any1 means me, im fighting without freeze, so where is the lame point? get resists and/or shut up
um a tank can't run cast heal I have tried it
then they should have damageblocker drugs
oh wait you dont have them?
your own fault
i use them on my spy, very effective.
They help for a while. Trouble is hybrids can cap the RoF on DB and cast it as fast as a PE can cast a heal. So within a couple of seconds of popping it you're boosted again, next thing you've got the drugflash. I still use them though since the time you save early on can help decide it, but anti drugs are nowhere near as effective as many people would claim.
um a tank can't run cast heal I have tried it
yes he can, gotta spec some psi use tho ;)
They help for a while. Trouble is hybrids can cap the RoF on DB and cast it as fast as a PE can cast a heal. So within a couple of seconds of popping it you're boosted again, next thing you've got the drugflash. I still use them though since the time you save early on can help decide it, but anti drugs are nowhere near as effective as many people would claim.
True, but if you can keep the hybrid busy pissing about spell swapping and most of the time you are not boosted, your gonna have time to either escape or hit him.
you get a drugs flash after 2 pills? odd, i dont usually get them til about my 4th or 5th pill.
maybe thats a bug with stealth on a spy. i'll try it on a different char when i can be arsed
Ok, that the hybrid shouldn't be killable 1vs1 at all was harsh. I'm just tired of it.
They should be killable, but it should be hard... Which is the case now.
Or should all be able to kill a hybrid no matter what?
True, but if you can keep the hybrid busy pissing about spell swapping and most of the time you are not boosted, your gonna have time to either escape or hit him.
you get a drugs flash after 2 pills? odd, i dont usually get them til about my 4th or 5th pill.
maybe thats a bug with stealth on a spy. i'll try it on a different char when i can be arsedUsually I notice a faint flash on the 3rd, the 4th is enough to add the random running factor, after 5 there's no use even trying to fight. If you're also popping anti para pills as well if he's using a parashock, it doesn't take long before you have to run off and wait out the drugflash.
EDIT: @phunqe: It should be as hard to kill a hybrid as it is for a hybrid to kill someone else, simple as that. That's the basic rule for combat balance.
Just make monks line of sight and not point and click stupidness and everyone is happy :P
-Crono
[EDIT]
@phunqe: It should be as hard to kill a hybrid as it is for a hybrid to kill someone else, simple as that. That's the basic rule for combat balance.
True, why the hell should hybrids be harder then anything else? they dont have any defence drawbacks or dmg drawbacks, their not lopsidded, why should they be "harder"?
um a tank can't run cast heal I have tried it
Every class can runcast heal, without any points in PSU, you just can't run straight and cast.
Ok, some responses.
First, tanks can't fully runcast heal, even with ALL INT into PSU. I know this because my melee tank *HAS* all INT in PSU. That being said, he can stagger-cast it quite nicely.
Second, Some people may not think so, but I really want the hybrid to be a viable playing style. To that end, I am trying to suggest things ways to tone them down slightly without killing them off completely once again. That is why I think the APU/PPU malus (the original hybrid nerf) should apply to heals only, but in a toned down state, something like 10% like I suggested earlier. Enough to take the "uber" edge off the heal, but still enough to be useful. My main concern is the sledgehammer effect if KK chooses to implement this. :\
Third, the drugflash seems a bit random to me. I usually don't get it until the fourth or fifth pill, but I have on occassion gotten it on the second one. o_O
Lastly, to all you who are moaning and pissing about people wanting this, that, or the other nerfed, just remember that when the old uber hybrids were around they said the same thing about people who "whined" that the hybrids were ungodly hard to kill and needed to be nerfed.
--Stryfe
@phunqe: It should be as hard to kill a hybrid as it is for a hybrid to kill someone else, simple as that. That's the basic rule for combat balance.
As hard as trying to kill a stealthing, capped running speed spy which stealths out of range all the time and snipes you?
(You can have good resists with a Kami, at the price of running as fast as old people fuck)argh mental pic
:(
anyways ppu based hybrids are a bitch to kill. Only an apu or apu based hybrid can take those on.. I see psi attack 2 used more and more. it does pretty good damage vs tanks and really good damage vs monks. who needs antishelter :p
As hard as trying to kill a stealthing, capped running speed spy?
When was the last time a spy in stealth ever killed someone? ;)
Stealth is a different issue anyway because it's not direct combat, just like the PPU is a separate issue.
Bleh, damnit :p
Anyway... I agree to your same for both parties thing.
However, I do feel that it's applicable only when both parties are confined to the same range on their weapons.
For example... a hybrid and a spy close up... if it was as easy for the spy to kill the hybrid at close range (as it's for the hybrid to kill the spy), the spy would just move out of range and it would suddenly give the spy a huge advantage.
Tanks, PEs and Spies have the long range. Hybrids do not.
Only situation where this same for both would be truly applicable would be hybrid versus apu, since they have both more or less the same range.
Or am I out wandering here...?
EDIT: Problem is, people often take the PvP to closed quarters like PP, that's why some balance get's screwed up over time...
I mean one time the hybrid takes down a spy and a tank in PP... fine... next time they meet outside and suddenly the coin has flipped. Both tank and spy can now go out of the hybrids range.
As long as PvP is close range only, it will be a problem. If not with hybrids, with something else.
MjukisDjur
21-07-04, 20:20
lol i odd to go on killing spree on me melee tank lol take some attention from hybrids lol....... :lol:
Couldnt have put it better...
Seriously, everyone please stop whining about nerf just because you got smacked by someone
Couldnt have put it better...
Seriously, everyone please stop whining about nerf just because you got smacked by someone
Agreed. The hybrid is fine. The heal is fine. Learn his defences and take him down.
but they r killable one on one, if u have right setup and some aiming skill they r easy kill(much easyer then PoB melee tank IMHO or even rav tank)Well the hybrids i have met are not killable. And i can kill POB melee tanks and even rav tanks. Theyre hard, yeah. But killable. A ppu based hybrid isnt.
You might have a chance if you slap 3 tl 3 heals in a row on him, but thats pretty much impossible.
The only class that might beat one is a POB melee tank getting a crappy deflector on him. Any other class: no chance. Apus and spies go down way too fast, even h-c tanks cant do much. And PEs might get away alive, but killing them? No fucking way.
if ya cant kill a blessed hybrid then go play the offline version
goddamn, always the same shit targetting at hybrids
GRRR
:mad:if ya can killa blessed hybrid, tell me how and which ones you killed so far with what class instead of just bitching.
GRRR ;)
if you cant beat them, don't fight them. that way you wont get your ego hurt when you get killed by a class thats seen more nerfs then any other.Thats so wrong. Balance means i should run away if i see one? How bout some more serious ideas.
Couldnt have put it better...
Seriously, everyone please stop whining about nerf just because you got smacked by someoneI got smacked by several hybrids and i've seen them take out loads of people. This isnt just bitching anymore, its a serious issue.
..i..DemonX
21-07-04, 20:35
Oh my god!
Can pls one of u (special Mander) tell me the reason why a Hybrid should be killable by a single HC Tank?
Now not start every class should be equal to each other shit pls!
Or is it just cry cuz there is something stronger then a tank?
There is nothing wrong on Hybrids i mean in fact they are cool like they are!
Sure it is hard to fight the blessed ones but they still can get killed!
Remember the old Hybrids so be happy like they are now! Kayne was a decent blessed Hybrid and i still saw him go down, so i dont realy see the problem!
Oh my god!
Can pls one of u (special Mander) tell me the reason why a Hybrid should be killable by a single HC Tank?
Now not start every class should be equal to each other shit pls!You are so wrong. Why should a class (except the ppu) be invincible to another class. I agree it should be hard for a pistol spy to kill a tank, but hey theres at least a chance. Fighting said hybrids, there is NONE.
EVERY CLASS SHOULD BE KILLABLE BY EVERY OTHER CLASS. Some are harder, some are easier, but its always possible. Just not in that one case. And because of it, every dumb fucktard is leveling or already playing a hybrid just because of this imbalance so they can PWN!!11
:mad:
Oh my god!
Can pls one of u (special Mander) tell me the reason why a Hybrid should be killable by a single HC Tank?
Now not start every class should be equal to each other shit pls!
Or is it just cry cuz there is something stronger then a tank?
There is nothing wrong on Hybrids i mean in fact they are cool like they are!
Sure it is hard to fight the blessed ones but they still can get killed!
Remember the old Hybrids so be happy like they are now! Kayne was a decent blessed Hybrid and i still saw him go down, so i dont realy see the problem!Just... Shut up now. If people like you were running the game, we'd still have the old uber hybrids.
--Stryfe
Well the hybrids i have met are not killable. And i can kill POB melee tanks and even rav tanks. Theyre hard, yeah. But killable. A ppu based hybrid isnt.
You might have a chance if you slap 3 tl 3 heals in a row on him, but thats pretty much impossible.
The only class that might beat one is a POB melee tank getting a crappy deflector on him. Any other class: no chance. Apus and spies go down way too fast, even h-c tanks cant do much. And PEs might get away alive, but killing them? No fucking way.
i dunno ppl but sometime i think we all play different game, yes i'v killed caped blessed hybrid on my lowtech pe and i killed ppu's and i killed apu based hybrids yes i get owned by them too some times but it's not imposible...i do agree tho that blessed hybrid is tought but isn't it the way it should be? they can only use tl 50 somthing attack spel that doesnt do much dmg those they should be harder to kill since they dont hl spam ya u know not even a beam......
edit: frankly I am tired to discuss this issue since it's going nowhere, there always be some class that needs tuning since there is NO perfect middle so I guess id rather c one class being harder then another then c them nerfed to sht so its all up to ya, if u never play monks they their is always be something wrong with them, did u ever notice that there is usually nothing wrong with the class that u choose to play the most ??
i dunno ppl but sometime i think we all play different game, yes i'v killed caped blessed hybrid on my lowtech pe and i killed ppu's and i killed apu based hybrids yes i get owned by them too some times but it's not imposible...i do agree tho that blessed hybrid is tought but isn't it the way it should be? they can only use tl 50 somthing attack spel that doesnt do much dmg those they should be harder to kill since they dont hl spam ya u know not even a beam......This is not about apu based hybrids or ppus. But ppu based hybrids simply are TOO tough. Thats the whole point.
They just have to slap on a heal, run around a bit and *pop* theyre back at full health.
And its not that easy fighting someone when you have to heal and pop anti drugs all the fucking time. Not to mention the insane speed as they dont need PA.
PPU based hybrids can only be killed with spirit bullets, i think that should be changed but balance doesnt seem to be important right atm o_O
PPU based hybrids can only be killed with spirit bullets, i think that should be changed but balance doesnt seem to be important right atm o_OI'm not so sure they're that tough. I bet that two people could take down almost all the current hybrids without too much of a problem, it's just that in 1v1 they are too strong.
--Stryfe
This is not about apu based hybrids or ppus. But ppu based hybrids simply are TOO tough. Thats the whole point.
They just have to slap on a heal, run around a bit and *pop* theyre back at full health.
And its not that easy fighting someone when you have to heal and pop anti drugs all the fucking time. Not to mention the insane speed as they dont need PA.
i know that we r talking about blessed hybrids i just said that it's possible to kill class with even better defences(ppu) so u shoul........ppfff just read me post above ...... i don't care, nerf them and skilled players will find different class to have funn with and we all get it nerfed too .........it's never ending porcess can't u c?
edit: i just think we got as balance as clould be with hybrids and eny further interuptions would kill the class again, if there is reasonable solution to maby tone down blessed hybrids to the lvl of the other class then by all means, but be ware what u wish for cuz we all know how kk tuning things down, for all i care next patch blessed hybrids might be using tl 3 heal since blessed would be doing exactly same effect as tl 3 heal for them and there we have blessed hyb rids nomore......
Problem is, people is generally basing what they want as balance on fights in PP.
Basing balance on close range fighting only is in my opinion a really really bad idea in the long run.
ya ok ive been alot of hybrids before, hl hybrids(not shad :P), and ive beaten holy halo ones before. Ok when i was fighting in pp the apu had like 4 chasing after him who aren't crappy players at all so dont even say that. He had a cs on him, my dev and some other shit. I dunno about my dev aim but a couple times he would just stand there and take it, and it wasnt doing shit, the posion he could just out heal and the fire doesnt do much on the dev. And search my name how many NERF threads have i started??? Ya lets hmmm 0. and plz dont compare it to saturn, plutos a big people server YAY
Thats so wrong. Balance means i should run away if i see one? How bout some more serious ideas.
Shit, that's what I used to do back in the day of the uber hybrids. I saw a hostile one, I just ran. Game over, gg no re.
and plz dont compare it to saturn, plutos a big people server YAY
well then the nerfs that r take plase after few of these posts should only aply to pluto, and i don't c how server pop affect hybrids toughness anyhow....
yea manderf how manny hybrids u saw such things doing? mh? how much? i already saw spys beating 4-5 ppl in a row, but spys arent overpowerd, mh? ive already beaten 2 apus with 2 ppus is a hc pe overpowerd?
The thing about hybrids is tho, that they're useless in any situation thats not 1on1. They're just weaker ppus or weaker apus at op wars, as soon as an apu or ppu show up the hybrid is worthless. You should take that into consideration. Hybrids are a lot like pe's, only really good for pp fights or dueling. I really don't wanna see the only thing a hybrid is good at be trashed.
I think it was Vet that said somthing along the lines of, "pe's tweak the hell out of their setup just to become an average pvp'r." Hybrids are the same way, except they can actualy become good pvp'rs. It takes a crazy amount of work to setup a hybrid right. The majority of hybrids are not so tweaked, and they're more or less balanced.
Honestly it was the same back when super hybrids were around. I played a 50/50 hybrid and I really loved it. My hybrid was a little overpowered, i could kill most tanks, but some always beat me. But because of the super hybrids that tweaked their setup, all hybrids were reduced to crap. What makes some too strong is what should be looked at, not general reductions to everyone.
ive never seen a spy kill 4 to 5 people in a row... Ive never seen a hc pe kill that many people, so post some ss's :) oh and newbs dont count
car once someone sees in it action it doesnt become that hard to make something similiar.
manders thats the point, some ppus with holy shields die faster than my hybrid with blessed ones. its how u play the char and the hybrid is atm a char which cant played by everyone with godmode. thats the point nobody see, the old hybrid were overpowerd, u have no need for a consetup with holy shields and shieldstats that doesnt count in pvp and it isnt hard to kill with holy para and holy lightning. everybody who started the char was better than every other class, but thats changed and its the reason why the hybrid have no need 4 another nerf
btw: i hate english im gonna kill that guy which created those language!
I must have the strangest hybrid ever. 3 drugs for one and a near-capped energy beam as primary offence, fully run-castable. :)
Any ppu biased monks with skill on Saturn wanna PM me? I've never fought one before but I bet I can take them on my Melee PE.
//Side Note//
There are two big factors in run-casting. Range and frequency. Preaty much divide the range by 10 and thats how far you can move before the spell fizzles. In addition the frequency factors in since if you can cast the spell before you exceed that range then the spell will cast sucessfully. So if you mean runcast as in run in a straight line then you will be less likely to successfully cast a spell then run around non-stop in a circle. To put distance in perspective a small spiderbot has about a 10m diameter.
Running in a straight line. :)
The problem is that PPU spells are so damn powerful—even at the blessed level. This is why so many OP fights are simply about who has more/better PPUs.
OK, here’s my solution to the PPU-biased hybrids…
Delete all classes and make one new class. Allow the appearance of the character to be highly customized (like nearly all decent MMORPGs allow) so you can make him/her a stocky tank-like character, slender spy-like, medium build PE-like, etc.
This single class would have: 100 Strength, 100 Dexterity, 100 Constitution, 100 Intelligence, and roughly 60 PSI.
Delete all the holy level spells and reduce the requirements of the level 3 buffs so that 60 PSI allows you to cast them. Oh yea…delete all the APU spells. Guns are cool; magic is silly.
Now you have characters that are all hybrids. Everyone can use a capped blessed level shelter, deflector, and heal. I think most people would agree that being a good hybrid requires some of the highest skill so this forces everyone to ratchet their game up a few notches.
No more PPUs…yay! If you have 7 clan members online, then you have a 7 man OP fighting team. No need to worry if you have enough of the right kind of characters on. No more begging PPUs for buffs. It is your responsibility to keep your buffs and shields up.
What kind of characters can you make? Let’s see. A H-C/pistoleer, a melee/droner, ahh the possibilities. Everyone would have 2 combat skills (and possibly a trade skill to boot) rather than the single skill characters now have. Two skills on the same character! The horror of it!
Time to take my medication.
u have no need for a consetup with holy shields and shieldstats that doesnt count in pvp and it isnt hard to kill with holy para and holy lightning. everybody who started the char was better than every other class, but thats changed and its the reason why the hybrid have no need 4 another nerf
Dunno imo the con setup was what seperated the uber hybs from the wannabe uber hybs, those with a con setup properly were absoloutly rock.... the ones with out generally you could find a weakness like xray or something...
i'd have said poison but meh poison had been shit for a long time :p
this aint hybrid, but sigg3 uses a tl49 claw (apparently) and still uses all ppu stuff to full capability. with db and para the claw seriously **********
YAY IM FAMUS tho i suck :)
Dunno imo the con setup was what seperated the uber hybs from the wannabe uber hybs, those with a con setup properly were absoloutly rock.... the ones with out generally you could find a weakness like xray or something...
i'd have said poison but meh poison had been shit for a long time :p
The best of those hybrids that I knew admitted to me not so long ago that he didn't have the faintest idea how to setup his con. ;)
..i..DemonX
21-07-04, 22:46
The problem is that PPU spells are so damn powerful—even at the blessed level. This is why so many OP fights are simply about who has more/better PPUs.
OK, here’s my solution to the PPU-biased hybrids…
Delete all classes and make one new class. Allow the appearance of the character to be highly customized (like nearly all decent MMORPGs allow) so you can make him/her a stocky tank-like character, slender spy-like, medium build PE-like, etc.
This single class would have: 100 Strength, 100 Dexterity, 100 Constitution, 100 Intelligence, and roughly 60 PSI.
Delete all the holy level spells and reduce the requirements of the level 3 buffs so that 60 PSI allows you to cast them. Oh yea…delete all the APU spells. Guns are cool; magic is silly.
Now you have characters that are all hybrids. Everyone can use a capped blessed level shelter, deflector, and heal. I think most people would agree that being a good hybrid requires some of the highest skill so this forces everyone to ratchet their game up a few notches.
No more PPUs…yay! If you have 7 clan members online, then you have a 7 man OP fighting team. No need to worry if you have enough of the right kind of characters on. No more begging PPUs for buffs. It is your responsibility to keep your buffs and shields up.
What kind of characters can you make? Let’s see. A H-C/pistoleer, a melee/droner, ahh the possibilities. Everyone would have 2 combat skills (and possibly a trade skill to boot) rather than the single skill characters now have. Two skills on the same character! The horror of it!
Time to take my medication.
lol sounds funny but so far the 1st realy good i read about! :)
I wonder how ppl would whine about it ... cuz we all know there all time will be whiners!
Q`alooaith
21-07-04, 23:00
Psi attack spell's are great, allways have been..
I used to use em on my APU as anti monk weapon before I got my HL part's togther, and even then I kept it on my quickbelt at all time's..
The number of people who don't throw a deflector up when fighting a monk is shocking I tell you.
lol sounds funny but so far the 1st realy good i read about! :)
I wonder how ppl would whine about it ... cuz we all know there all time will be whiners!Silly, but fun to ponder. Let’s see…
A) If you were a H-C tank now: With this new class, you would have the same 100 STR and 100 CON so neither of those would change. Your DEX was already pretty high at 70 so the extra 30 levels might let you add points in recycle and driving, or maybe some repair for those battlefield emergencies. PSI would be a big improvement but then again, self buffing at the blessed level is probably similar to foreign cast holy buffs. If you were at an OP fight, you would have roughly the same defense self-buffed that you have now with a PPU supporting you. In fact, your heal would be weaker.
INT would be a major improvement as well. You would have enough WEP to cap aim (finally) and plenty of PSU for your spells. Then you could decide to either hack or poke. Plenty of melee tanks hack now, though obviously not at OP level.
B) If you were a pistol PE or pistol spy now: You would go from a 2nd class citizen at OP fights to an equal. The 100 DEX would let you comfortable use and cap all your pistols without drugs. The 100 CON and self-buffing capabilities makes you equal to the tanks and the 100 STR lets you spec H-C so you can AoE like a champ until it’s time to whip that pistol out.
Nearly every character could afford to spec hacking, solving the dreaded “Oh no we can’t take any OPs because we don’t have enough hackers on!”
C) If you were an APU or PPU now: Monks are silly, all gone.
yes he can, gotta spec some psi use tho ;)
hmm my tank has a 4 slot heal all into ppu that he can and 30 psi use and doesn't quite cap it :/ he can stagger heal lol but not a true run cast
What's this stagger heal anyways? Is it a very short pause at the very beginning of the cast and then resuming a full speed run or some kind of stutter-cast? Because my APU hybrid can pause for a split second when he starts to cast his heal and then resume a full run while it casts.
hmm my tank has a 4 slot heal all into ppu that he can and 30 psi use and doesn't quite cap it :/ he can stagger heal lol but not a true run cast
u cant get "true" (like apu) runcust on ppu spells since it's starts at 600% on the spell, but u can wiggle around and ull runcust ppu spells
What's this stagger heal anyways? Is it a very short pause at the very beginning of the cast and then resuming a full speed run or some kind of stutter-cast? Because my APU hybrid can pause for a split second when he starts to cast his heal and then resume a full run while it casts.Runcasting is worked by creating an imaginary circle around your character (well, technically a sphere actually) when you start the cast. To runcast you must complete the cast without leaving the circle. Thus there are various ways of casting while running, though true runcasting implies running at full speed straight ahead and still casting. Often you'll find that casting a heal works while running sideways. My current preferred method is running in a quick circle to cast it, but only because it looks cool. :)
This is why you'll find PPUs dancing on the spot when casting rezz etc, as long as they stay within that circle they can keep the cast going. I'm not sure how jumping works though. :p
Interesting. Like I said, my hybrid can pause for a split second to start heal cast and then run in a straight line for the duration of the cast. No dancing. :)
I do it all the time when aggroing grims, since apu module ranges were nerfed into the range of a grim.
Interesting. Like I said, my hybrid can pause for a split second to start heal cast and then run in a straight line for the duration of the cast. No dancing. :)
That's possible with all spells at 576% damage and 52/min RoF. ;)
If you experiment though, you'll find you can run sideways without stopping and still cast, or try stopping at a different point (i.e. pause for a split second just as it finishes rather than just as it starts).
i know that we r talking about blessed hybrids i just said that it's possible to kill class with even better defences(ppu) so u shoul........ppfff just read me post above ...... i don't care, nerf them and skilled players will find different class to have funn with and we all get it nerfed too .........it's never ending porcess can't u c?
edit: i just think we got as balance as clould be with hybrids and eny further interuptions would kill the class again, if there is reasonable solution to maby tone down blessed hybrids to the lvl of the other class then by all means, but be ware what u wish for cuz we all know how kk tuning things down, for all i care next patch blessed hybrids might be using tl 3 heal since blessed would be doing exactly same effect as tl 3 heal for them and there we have blessed hyb rids nomore......Punctuation?
Well anyway, let me say it again. PPU based hybrids are not balanced. You dont believe me? Come start a char on uranus and fight that one most hated clan. They got enough of em. Not to mention all their clan- and factionless hybrid friends. A.k.a. ppl from other servers who came to uranus to pwn and shit.
I hate this game. I'm so close to quitting it as i never was. :(
Punctuation?
Well anyway, let me say it again. PPU based hybrids are not balanced. You dont believe me? Come start a char on uranus and fight that one most hated clan. They got enough of em. Not to mention all their clan- and factionless hybrid friends. A.k.a. ppl from other servers who came to uranus to pwn and shit.
I hate this game. I'm so close to quitting it as i never was. :(
well am realy sorry to hear that you guys on uranus get pwned by that one clan but here on satrurn i fought alot of "good" monks and had no probles o_O, i just might go and start pe on uranus and if u want me to prove j00 all wrong all ill need is SF and diesent lib with fire mod and week to lvl up and get him all setup:)
Unfortunatley psi attack 2 is overpowered on a blessed ppu hybrid.
As a tank, with capped force resist and armour to take me to the max 76%, then with deflector and 490& on my heal - i cant outheal the damage, not by a long shot.
Whereas the monk can easily outheal anything i throw at it - cs, dev, rav, tsg.... only aoe weapons are actually any good against it (well only moonstriker then - which is crap for pp fights)
I wont be suprised to see a lot of monks going this route, as 1v1 they can kill any class with relative ease - bar another blessed/psi attack2 hybrid.
Fire mod? Most self respecting monks wear a heavy fire belt, or a poison belt if they are crazy. Uranium all the way. (except my monk, i have a moveon in him and drug beast for xray bones.. :D)
Fire mod? Most self respecting monks wear a heavy fire belt, or a poison belt if they are crazy. Uranium all the way. (except my monk, i have a moveon in him and drug beast for xray bones.. :D)
What Glok says. And didnt you get that "Punctuation" thing? o_O
Fire mod? Most self respecting monks wear a heavy fire belt, or a poison belt if they are crazy. Uranium all the way. (except my monk, i have a moveon in him and drug beast for xray bones.. :D)
well on saturn i got 2 libs one fire one xray so if one don't i use another, but i figured that i can't ask for much so fire will do just fire oltho xray one would be nice too and/or explosive(ownzz apu based hybrids), or no better yet just gimeh explosive termi lol then they will all get owned :D lolz.......
@ whats his name(not glok): and oh u can go fuck er self with er punctiation, i don't spell check evry fucking word on these forums so i migh misspell some of the words, why not cuz it donnn maatteeeerrr since half of j00 here including u don't even have pubic hair so stfu
Yer nuts. My hyb has his best resists in force/pierce. And that is even with an exp psi 3. (dun have a DS :()
My hyb has his best resists in force/pierce. And that is even with an exp psi 3. (dun have a DS :()
lol yea that what i though when i fough termi pe in nf, that thing tore up my pe(120 in resist force with buffs, about 100 from armor and blessed deflector :eek: ) cuz explosive is the only mod thats direct dmg on it and it ownzz... kinda like psi attack ya know ;) :angel:
Yer nuts.
yea am silly like that silly u hear meh lolzz...... :lol:
lol yea that what i though when i fough termi pe in nf, that thing tore up my pe(120 in resist force with buffs, about 100 from armor and blessed deflector :eek: ) cuz explosive is the only mod thats direct dmg on it and it ownzz... kinda like psi attack ya know ;) :angel:
I faught a skilled termi pe with that mod and it didn't really do anything special, i was using a normal deflect aswell and he ran before me (pain easers not that bad ya know) i didn't notice it doing extreme dmg.
I did notice tho that 75% monks are going hyb and to me this is a always a nice big fat hint at the fact there's something wrong with it being that most stayed monk even after the malus was changed but suddenly a few posts about blessed hybs and we have loads.
You can cap force resist, but the rof of the spell makes it immaterial, when you think even if it did 10 dmg but say 75/min then that 10 dmg is gonna become more than that quite quick, lob a dmg boost and a stun in the mix, plus the fact you can't even dent em without nib buffin and they can cure of your dmg within a few seconds and prolly a few other peoples dmg for that matter it won't take long you to die....
I have no probs with Hybrids, just blessed hybrids, i think the most you should get a is a capped shelter/deflect and heal like the pe cept his shelt ain't capped, then some decent attack, mebbe energy beam....
That or make the hybrid have a complete seperate line of spells which would make balancing them easier ie they have 3 reqs like apu/ppu/mst
I faught a skilled termi pe with that mod and it didn't really do anything special, i was using a normal deflect aswell and he ran before me (pain easers not that bad ya know) i didn't notice it doing extreme dmg.
I did notice tho that 75% monks are going hyb and to me this is a always a nice big fat hint at the fact there's something wrong with it being that most stayed monk even after the malus was changed but suddenly a few posts about blessed hybs and we have loads.
You can cap force resist, but the rof of the spell makes it immaterial, when you think even if it did 10 dmg but say 75/min then that 10 dmg is gonna become more than that quite quick, lob a dmg boost and a stun in the mix, plus the fact you can't even dent em without nib buffin and they can cure of your dmg within a few seconds and prolly a few other peoples dmg for that matter it won't take long you to die....
I have no probs with Hybrids, just blessed hybrids, i think the most you should get a is a capped shelter/deflect and heal like the pe cept his shelt ain't capped, then some decent attack, mebbe energy beam....
That or make the hybrid have a complete seperate line of spells which would make balancing them easier ie they have 3 reqs like apu/ppu/mst
tbh, i think most people are just going hybrid cause its now viable and its something a lot of monks would prefer to play and with nothing really going on right now and not for a month or so, people are just getting bored and trying new stuff.
[QUOTE=Shadow Dancer]You can't have good defenses and cap HL/FA.
come on to venus and meet Wakeup someday, you'll see
92/63, once was in the area of 127/70 back in the good ol days
(no bullshit, either, he was one of THE uberest (hmm is that a word lol) on Venus, and is still easily in the top 5...
('cept I lost my DS, not so shithot at the moment)
and plz dont compare it to saturn, plutos a big people server YAY
its a big boy server is it? yet here you are whineing like a little baby.
go back to your big server and learn to play your tank or something
dumb fuck
even with the -40 ppu ?
no PA's, usually holy spirit vest, no class specific chips (Psi Attacks/defensive Psi)
no PA's, usually holy spirit vest, no class specific chips (Psi Attacks/defensive Psi)
no but the kami gives a minus to ppu now
[QUOTE=Shadow Dancer]You can't have good defenses and cap HL/FA.
come on to venus and meet Wakeup someday, you'll see
92/63, once was in the area of 127/70 back in the good ol days
(no bullshit, either, he was one of THE uberest (hmm is that a word lol) on Venus, and is still easily in the top 5...
('cept I lost my DS, not so shithot at the moment)
U can't use the first lvl shelt and cap hl its impossible and because this guy who is now /63 so about 90 int has a high combat rank it means nothing. My hybrid who gets no where near capping HL with psi 3 comes out at 106/63 does that make him more uber?
APUs are the hybrids worst nightmare generally though.
yep, no argument there...
:)
What's this stagger heal anyways? Is it a very short pause at the very beginning of the cast and then resuming a full speed run or some kind of stutter-cast? Because my APU hybrid can pause for a split second when he starts to cast his heal and then resume a full run while it casts.
Yeah or Strafing left and right quickly while running forwards slows you just enough to runcast :)
Shadow Dancer
22-07-04, 18:12
come on to venus and meet Wakeup someday, you'll see
92/63, once was in the area of 127/70 back in the good ol days
(no bullshit, either, he was one of THE uberest (hmm is that a word lol) on Venus, and is still easily in the top 5...
('cept I lost my DS, not so shithot at the moment)
Cap HL with kami and have good defense?
Sorry don't believe it. You can't have "good" defense with a kami and without holy buffs, and you can't cap HL while having the ability to cast holy buffs.
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