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Me and some guys on vent have been having a discussion on game graphics, and decided to make a questionare about it.
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes are actually circular, and not an octagon or whatever?
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
Sex
When I play games, I mostly look at the graphics, if it's good graphics it feels like it's more realistic. The more realistic the game is the more fun it is. It's my opinion though. :)
EDIT (so far I've seen all trailers and screenshots of EQ2 and it seems to be a game worth buying)
1. Mip Mapping. Without any filtering you can do whatever you want to a scene and it'll still look nothing like real.
2. Texture compression, as it only creates a performance increase. However any performance increasing tech also by definition increases visual quality because you can trade performance back for quality. E.g. with compression you can use higher quality textures without increasing the texture size itself.
3. Depends on the game. With realistic shadows and lighting in it becomes very important as the gfx card is working everything out based on the model. Without those it's not so important, because you can create realistic looking shading on the texture without the model being all that complex. UT was a fantastic example of this.
4. Can't really pick. If it looks fake but your grenades bounce of walls and everything is physically spot on with the real world, it'll still look fake, and if it looks photo realistic but you get stuck on doors and blocked by invisible walls it'll still feel fake. Battlefield is an example here, looks fantastic but the running and the weapons don't feel right at all, plus things like tank shells drop far too quickly.
5. Ragdoll physics and animation, normally. Motion capture looks the most realistic by far for a set piece animation, but on the fly it becomes horribly fake. E.g. in fighting games, if you interrupt another player's kick by punching them. Animation/rag dolls can account for this and make it look realistic, but motion capture will make the model appear to 'snap' to the new position. Also applies in FPS etc when changing direction for example.
6. Yes, but only because I know my PC can handle it. If my PC couldn't handle good graphics then it wouldn't make any difference to me.
7. No.
8. If I did I can't remember it.
9. Terrible graphics with smooth FPS. This is why I prefer DoD to BF1942 overall.
10. FPS, but only because FPS are the most competitive games with each other. Graphics are just as important in say RTS, Homeworld 2 for example, you look at it and say WOW but in the FPS world, all the games compete with each other, e.g. "UT has better graphics than Q3".
11. Text based adventures/RPGs. :D Pure FPS at the highest level also, in competitive Quake tournaments for cash nobody plays with the details set anywhere above absolute minimum.
12. Average map design with powerful engine. Compare CoD with DoD for example. DoD map creators are great but there's only so much they can do with HL. Some DoD maps are essentially simple without much thought but the engine can provide the finishing touches, e.g. realistic looking hedgerows and rubble not being blocky, also higher resolution textures = large factor.
13. Thanks. :)
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
Dynamic lighting (or at least very good lighting)
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
Water
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes are actually circular, and not an octagon or whatever?
As long as it's semi close (like 8 sides) it's fine. circular objects have massive amounts of polys.
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
dynamics.. both though. MGS1/2 did it perfectly, I don't see why a game years later can't.
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
For someone dying I suppose? I'd say ragdoll. It's so amusing.
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
Yes
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
No
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
Yeah. Firewarrior.
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
Great graphics but slow fps (assuming the low fps is because of the graphics)
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
RPGs
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
First person shooters. Creates kind of a problem with NC doesn't it?
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?great map design with an average engine. Look at AVP2. Lithtech engine isn't the best, even when it came out, but the levels are perfect so the game looks great.
Sex
okay
Btw I'll just add regarding BF and physics, that they did a great job with planes and helicopters, they've really added a lot of realistic aspects to them (which is why learning to fly them is hard but rewarding :D). It just then goes and spoils it all when it comes to infantry moving, most of the weapons and tank shells.
1. anti aliasing!
2. anioscrotum filtering.
3. not very. its nicer though.
4. world dynamics!
5. motion capture, with ragdoll.
6. yes, but not alot.
7. sadly yes.
8. Hell no.
9. the one with better graphics. but then again, if there is a tweak then the other :P
10. All, there are many genres out there not paying nearly enough attention to detail. IE. strategy games.
11. None, maybe 2d platform games, but even they could do with some proper lighting and shadows + texture details.
12. The good map with an average engine. In the end its the maps you are addicted to. If the maps suck, the engine cant make up for it.
13. Not yet, but hoping :wtf:
May aswell take my own test. :p
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
Texturing.
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
Eventually, texturing. Although currently I think game developers put far too much emphesis on realistic deaths. The MDK developers from 1997 had evil death tapes for market research!
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes
Surprisingly important.
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
Realistic Image, although pure physics are fun to play around with.
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
Sprites. Polygons have too many clothing limitations in RPG's. :D
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
Not entirely, but yes.
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
Yes, the origional GTA.
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
Yep. Neocron. :p
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
Terrible graphics I can bear. Bad frames per second pisses me off to hell.
//Edit. Actually I like oldschool graphics. Just finished playing Strider 2 & Turrican 2. The graphics are just so cool!
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
FPS.
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
Puzzle games, although @ Scikar. Text Adventures have some of the best graphics. Have you ever played Zork 1? The imagry that passed through my mind was amazing, and all because of a little text description. (Yeah I know different thingy but what the hey)
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
Map design. Duke Nukem is proof of that.
Sex
/set sex_self 1
eric-the-ded
21-07-04, 07:04
physics over graphics.
the more you can screw with, the more fun that can be had. if it looks pretty too then.. good.
i've been playing spiderman 2 a lot lately. lemme tell ya, any game where you can throw a purse snatcher off the top of the empire state building and watch their body flop all over as they bounce off of ledges on the way down is a damn fun game. but then returning the purse to its owner and hearing them say "i hope you really hurt that thief" leaves feeling sad for disappointing her. i kinda doubt the guy felt anything when hit the street below.
anyway..
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
realtime lighting
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
bump mapping
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes
depends on whether or not the objects have physics. are they meant for direcoration or can they bounce and roll of you knock into them or shoot them?
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
physics
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
ragdoll physics.
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
a little bit. in the end it's the fun-factor that's most important to me.
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
i don't really go for games by reputation anyway. i do research and see if it interests me. then i'll check the screens and avoid the game if i see any cell shading.
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
no
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
even if it looks absolutely photorealistic, it's gotta have a livable framerate.
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
RPGs. most RPGs now days have nothing else going for them, so they might as well fo for flashy graphics. see the FF series for more info.
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
um.. i think i'll go with puzzle games too. tho i've seen some more recent puzzlers with purdy eye candy.
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
level design. it's gotta be interesting before it can be pretty.
sex
never before the first date.
NS_CHROME54
21-07-04, 07:31
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
Dynamic Lighting & Shaders.
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
Bump Mapping.
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes
If they're completely static then all you really have to do is create the illusion (textures and perspective) of there being circular objects. However if the objects are dynamic, such as in games that use newer physics engines, than making it as realistic as possible is at least mandatory.
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
I have to say realistic images. I'm jaded to the point where i can't really play many 3d games with crappy textures and gameworlds and such without it detracting from my enjoyement of the game, but not so jaded that the physics have to be hyper realistic for me to enjoy it.
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
I'd say they are all of equal importance.
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
The graphic quality of a game is usually a pretty good indicator of how much a developer really cares about their product. Graphics do also increase/decrease the fun factor of a game for me, also.
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
Nope.
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
Nope.
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
Depends on what's happening. If I'm just milling around from place to place then a high frame rate really isn't all that important. However, during a battle, it IS important. I don't think I could choose a clear winner here.
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
First Person Shooters. Generally in FPS games, what you see is what you get, as far as gameplay goes, and they aren't really built deep strategically (with exceptions of course, see Halo), so graphics are the most important component of building the game experience.
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
Kids games/Puzzles.
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
Definitely good map design, because it contributes far more to the overall gameplay.
Sex
w00t!
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
Personally I think the number of polygons per model is still the key, technology like bump-mapping, high-rez and adaptive textures and realistic hardware T&L help too... light is a big part of the way we see, and few technologies that are game-capable (IE don't take 3 days to render a scene) don't do light and shadow too well
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
They are all important to some extent, I really can't pick out one loser.
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes are actually circular, and not an octagon or whatever?
this is fairly important, but it's not critical, it should be done on large pillars and things you get close too, if it's not ever seen that closely, I'm willing to put up with a little less quality to get my FPS up.
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
it's a bit of both. you can make a series of primitive armatures that react and move just like a real person, but the graphics are so poor they break continuity. The graphics have to be realistic enough that you can suspend disbelife and get people into the game. Same with the physics. Everytime your Hovertec (for example) hits a shrub and stops dead, you are painfully reminded that you are playing a flawed game, not watching an interactive movie or experiancing something.
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
it all depends on how it's done, IDK what Neocron uses, it looks like ragdoll, with some primitive mocap. Mocap is limited to a specific set, which makes it less versitive which is why to me SWG looks stilted.
Personally I prefer Inverse Kinematic physics because they adapt to the environment best.
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
if 2 games are equal, I go for graphics, but I never go for graphics over gameplay. (unless the game has cute guys ;) )
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
yeah, but because the screenshots showed an AWFUL GUI.
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
yeah, World Cup Quidditch, the Harry Potter game, fun for a while, but it gets old fast... the graphics are stunning.
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
again I prefer the middle ground, but if I have to go with something, I'll go with the one I can play best. Skippy framerates also make control sluggish and imprecise, and imprecise controls are the one thing I HATE in a game
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
Still-frame adventure games (Like Myst, Riven, Jouneyman Project, ect.) because the graphics are at once puzzle clues, environments and eye candy.
FPSs need good graphics too.
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
Probably stratagy or Simulation. Civilization one had terrible graphics, but I still enjoy the hell out of it.
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
Good maps determine how fun a game is. Poor maps are the death-knell for otherwise great games oftentimes. especially console games with no player-moddability, To look at examples, DOOM had GREAT level design, levellord is GOD when it comes to doing amazing things with a relitively limited and primitive engine, they provided SO MUCH with so little, I think they set a bar never equalled, except maybe by Ion Storm's Deus Ex (Which was a lot of Ex IDders...)
Sex
OK :angel: ;) :p
Graphics is really good in most games today, the next step in trying to get an edge on your competition will most likely be physics.
If you like ragdoll physics you should check out the playable physics demos from a competitor to Havok called Meqon i made a thread about a while back. My old thread: http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=103232
Necrosadistic
21-07-04, 14:35
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
Bump mapping on things like water, walls, ground.... Flat textures kill realism.
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes are actually circular, and not an octagon or whatever?
Well if the octagon is made to look realistic its ok as you can have octagonal pipes and barrels...
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
I don't notice interaction as much as I notice realistic graphics...
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
Ragdoll physics are great, but only if done well... A lot of the tiem teh ragdoll effect actualy looks unnatural and not like someone who has been hit...
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
SOmetimes, but I play roguelike games with no graphics too, like ADOM, so I don't give a shit in general if its a good game.
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
Never...
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
Neocron... :lol: Because when I read a beta report in PC Zone teh graphics still looked sexy back then...
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
The game with smooth FPS.... I hate this in online games especially all this jerky BS which make it feel totally unrealistic
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
Action/adventure, as I only like those bollocks games if they have some amazing locations, otherwise they are a dead loss...
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
RPGs - I play ADOM with zero graphics and love it to bits, more than most graphical RPGs
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
The powerful engine with bad map design... As map design is only noticed when you try to do something as opposed to when you look at something...
Sex
Later
Mumblyfish
21-07-04, 14:54
Behold!
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds?
Cel-shading.
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
Bump-mapping.
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes are actually circular, and not an octagon or whatever?
Very important indeed. Perfect circles have a big "wow" factor to me.
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
I don't place much importance on either... but physics can be way more fun, I suppose.
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
2D sprites, or preferably 2D art. Second only to cel-shading, 2D art has so much character and "omg so pretty" that 3D art can't even touch.
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
Usually no. But there's some games like Viewtiful Joe and Tales of Symphonia that I've bought TWICE just because of the lush art style and graphics. Tales of Symphonia is the greatest looking game evar. [/me strokes his US import]
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
Nope.
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
Nope.
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
I'd rather have a constant FPS of thirty and above. Usability > pretty.
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
While the industry thinks FPS games always have to have cutting edge "look how plastic I can make these monsters" graphics, I don't think any genre needs "good" graphics more than the next.
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
See above.
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
Good map design always wins. Good maps ensure replayability and generally way more fun.
Sex
Mick and Neil.
I will close with the following images:
http://www.ebgames.com/gmspImages/23/235675/pt_561316_20040504_screen017_24s3114.jpg
http://www.ebgames.com/gmspImages/23/235675/eb/pt_4.jpg
http://www.ebgames.com/gmspImages/23/235675/pt_561316_20040504_screen009_24s3114.jpg
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
- Textures - or all of em together.
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
- No comments.
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes are actually circular, and not an octagon or whatever?
- Not so important, but everytime u notice that barrel is really a barrel it makes me thing "wow".
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
- Definedly realistic world and physics.. anyone crashed to a small bush in CMR?=)
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
- Physics
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
- Nope, IMO no matter how perfect and realistic are graphics, but if the storyline sucks it ain't gonna keep me playing.
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
- nup
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
- nup
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
-i would go for good FPS, quake1 was good FPS (back then) with "not-so-good" graphics.
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
- None. I'm not playing because of their graphics, i play by the addictivity-factor. But if i would need to say something i would say adventure/puzzle games like funky graphics of The Secret Of The Monkey Islands :)
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
- none/all. Prolly something like Tetris :) And the old SSI AD&D rpgs (Curse of the Azure Bonds,Champions of Krynn,Death Knights of Krynn).. who needs graphics on those? - i loved them with the shitty graphics but the storyline owns in all of em.
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
- Good map design. Engine doesn't help if the others suck.
Sex
- Is always nice to have some.
BTW: someone said Turrican II ?? That was gods gift to the ppl back then when it came out. Awesome graphics and MUSIC! Another game you just have to play. And to add some nice "oldie"games.. Another World/Flashback but the ultimate game is Monkey Island :) If anyone can remember those beeps from the pc-speaker what was really annoying, but the game it self.. OWNED ALL!
Me and some guys on vent have been having a discussion on game graphics, and decided to make a questionare about it.
What graphical technology do you feel is most important in creating believable worlds
What graphical technology do you think is least important?
How important is it to you that circular objects such as barrals and pipes are actually circular, and not an octagon or whatever?
What's more important, a realistic image, or realistic world dynamics such as interaction and physics?
What's do you prefere. Ragdoll Physics, Motion Capture, Animation, 2D Spites, or other?
Do graphics motivate you into playing a game?
Have you ever put off buying a game with a good reputation because you didn't like the screenshots?
Have you ever bought a game with a terrible reputation because you liked the look of the graphics?
Which is the lesser of these two evils A game with great graphics but slow FPS even with maximum system requirements, or a game with terrible graphics but constant smooth FPS?
What genre of games do you think graphics are most important in?
And what genre of games do you think graphics are least important in?
Which do you think from the following two options would provide the best graphics?. Good map design with an average engine, or average map design with a powerfull engine?
Sex
1) Tough one. older technologies obviously opened the door to current graphics, but newer technologies are expanding on these. Are we limited to just gaming? I would have to say Bump mapping, or maybe pixel shaders.
2) Cel-Shading. I cannot play Cel-Shaded games AT ALL. they literally make me physically ill (unless I'm lucky enough to just get a headache, which only 1 game has done so far).
3) Not really important, but succeed at making everything look circular without my computer dying would certainly impress me.
4) World Dynamics. I'll feel more "imersed" if I'm better able to interact with the "world"
5) For gaming? Ragdoll Physics.
6) Only when it comes to cell-shading.
7) Nope. Graphics are LAST on my reason to buy a game (except when it comes to Cel-Shading)
8) NO.
9) Whichever has the better story.
10) MMOs. I'm going to look at them far longer than any other kind of game.
11) RPGs. The story is most important.
12) When you say map design, what do you mean? the layout? the texturing? everything and anything composed of map design? too ambiguous a question.
Edit:@Mumblyfish - Even the screenshots give me a headache ><
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