Making Neocron more Newbie-Friendly - VERY Long Read!!!

[Nvidia]

With the coming of NC2, we should (hopefully) have a very large influx of new players. That's a good thing - one thing Neocron definitely needs is a larger playerbase.

However... I'm pretty sure that anyone can agree that Neocron is not, in any way, "newbie-friendly". I know that KK has stated that there will be a much better newbie experience, but I feel the need to share a few ideas I've had recently, because I feel that they are in no way un-balancing, and can only make it easier for new people to enjoy the game. Please read everything and rate it 5 stars if you agree. Remember though, when you make suggestions, the following thing...

- BE REALISTIC!!! IE: "I think newbies should get access to jetpacks" or something along those lines is NOT realistic. :p

Character Selection

+ [NEW IDEA] Character Selection Helper +

- This would probably run itself automatically the first time the first character slot on a server is used, and each time you were to click on a new slot for a server afterwards, it would ask if you'd like to launch it. At heart, it's just a window that would launch inside the program. In the window, it would ask you a series of questions. For example...

"Welcome to the Dangerous, Cyber-punk world of Neocron! This Character Selection Helper will try to determine what might fit your first character the best. When you click 'ok', there will be a short series of questions. Upon answering these, we will be able to accurately determine what would fit you best, based on your input. Press 'ok' to continue."

From that point, you'd probably want to ask a basic question, and then branch them off in different directions. I'm going to try my hardest to think of all possible character directions, but don't sue my pants off if I miss one. :p

STARTER QUESTION - "What kind of person do you consider yourself to be...

(A) -An Aggressive Person.
(B) -A Passive Person.

AGGRESSIVE QUESTIONS
"What kind of attack power sounds the most appealing to you...

(A) -Very high damage output, lots of speed, very low defenses.
(B) -Medium damage output, medium defenses, variable speed.
(C) -High damage output, high defenses, slower in combat.

From those descriptions, it's pretty obvious (at least I think) that the first question is APU, or spy related, the second either a Hybrid, or a Private Eye, and the third a GenTank. Going from those things...

HIGH DAMAGE OUTPUT QUESTIONS
- "Based on your selection, we think you'd be best-suited either to one of two things...

(A) -Agressive PSI Monk, specializing in the highest damage output in the shortest amount of time out of any class in Neocron. With that comes a very low defense, and also requires you to get relatively close to your target in order to deal the insane amount of damage you're capable of.
(B) -Rifle or Pistol Spy, specializing in a very high amount of damage, with the ability of the only class capable of stealthing themselves into thin air to arrange surprise attacks and escape from sticky confrontations. With this once again comes a very low defense, so be careful with how close you get to your enemies!

APU CHOICE
- "Based on your decision, we think an APU (Aggressive Psychic User) would suit you best for your started character. If you're unsatisfied, please click 'go back' to run this Character Manager from the beginning again. Otherwise, click 'ok' to customize the appearance of your new character!

SPY CHOICE
- "Based on your decision, we think a Spy (Rifle Spies are easier to play than Pistol Spies when leveling up!) would suit you best for your starter character. But, before you customize the appearance of your character, you'll need to decide if you want to specialize in Rifles or Pistols.

Would you prefer...

Rifles -Allowing you to be a sniper. Combining Stealth with Rifles creates a deadly spy, allowing you take your enemies down at great distances, and keep everyone on their feet, waiting for your next shot.
Pistols -Allowing you to specialize in close-quarter high-damage pistols. Combining these weapons with stealth allows you to get the jump on the enemy, and release some blistering-hot energy right into their spine at point-blank range.

Upon picking one of these two options, the character's points would be set accordingly, making sure to put an emphasis on Weaponlore for rifle spies, and PSI Use/Weaponlore for Pistol spies.

I can't be arsed to finish the questions branching off, because I have this feeling this idea will be passed over anyway. *sigh* But if KK showed interest, I'd be more than willing to finish the questions in all branches. Either way, I'm sure most of you can understand where I was going with it.
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+ Proposed Change to Starting PSI +

- Give Newbies the ability to heal themselves from the start. Make each character, save monks, start out with an automatic 4 PSI. Just enough so that they have the 3 MST for a heal, 7 PPU, and enough PPW to use the heal. Do you have any idea how much easier it would be for newbies to level if they had some way of healing themselves without having to buy medkits right from the start?

Save monks, new people do _NOT_ realize that the only way they have the ability to heal themselves is by running missions until they get to 4 or 5 PSI. I must have met ten different newbies in my career in neocron where they were above rank 20, and still had no idea they were capable of healing themselves without a medkit. I guess part of this reason is due to the 'clunky' mission interface, and lack of direction on where to go to find the mobs. Instead of reworking missions, why not just change starting PSI Levels for GenTank, Private Eye, and Spy?

I see no reason why not to do this. It's extremely frustrating waiting for your health to regenerate at one or two ticks every four seconds, even with the low amount of body health newbies have. I feel that by doing this, you are taking the one potentially un-fun part out of leveling as a newbie. While you're at it, make it so that each class automatically starts with a TL 3 heal in their inventory, and with their PSI Glove already put on.
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+ Re-evaluate Point Distribution +

- The current character professions you can choose have absolutely nothing to do with how the game's evolved since it was released. When the game was first released, I'm pretty sure there wasn't as much of an emphasis on specialization.

Currently, choosing one of those professions listed at the top only end up fucking up your character after you start the game. If you do anything but pull out all points in all categories, you're doing something extremely wrong. That, in itself if extremely wrong, and the only people that don't know better are the new people who think, "Hmm... special forces member, wow, that sounds really cool." only to find out there's points in repair or construct or something along those lines. I'm not sure on that one, but you all (hopefully) get what I mean.

I would like to see all classes re-evaluated, based on the changes to specialization. For example... upon choosing a spy, there are only three selections:

Rifle Spy
Pistol Spy
Droner Spy

Realisticly, with specialization, if you want to get anywhere, you have to stick with one of these three things for a spy. I would also like to see a list of started tips on point distribution once you pick your profession. For example...

Rifle Spy
"Congratulations on picking a Rifle Spy! There's a few things you need to know in order to succeed and make a good name for yourself. When leveling up, we recommend placing points in the following areas to maximize your damage and combat potential.

Intelligence
- Lots and lots of weaponlore. This skill is the main factor in how well you aim your rifle. You'll want to aim for about 130 base points, and with combat impants, you should come close to about 170 or 180. This is a very good number to aim for, as it should come close to capping the aiming percentage on your rifles.

- About 50 or 60 in PSI use. This skill allows you to cast a heal and buffs on yourself faster. In combat, those two seconds you save from a quicker heal might end up saving your ass!

- If you're looking for a bit of extra cash, you might want to try poking. Poking is the skill needed to put implants into someone. Everyone uses implants, and when people die, implants fall out, needing to be 're-imped'. The tips can be quite good, so consider this if you're looking to make yourself a little extra cash in the beginning. A good base implant skill to aim for is 84. Aside from extremely rare MC5 chips, this will be enough to implant anything in the game.

- You also might want to consider hacking as a profession. Hacking allows you to crack open dangerous warbots released by the Dome of York armies. The loot in these things can be very valuable, due to the tech parts they drop. If you aim for above 100 hacking, and if you decide to join in on the PvP action, and join a clan, you can hack outposts for your clan. Outpost hackers are always in high demand, making for a potentially profitable business if you work for the highest bidder.

On emphasis of most important to least important, we HIGHLY recommend...

1. Weaponlore
2. PSI use

Hacking and Poking are not required to be a successful combat character, but they can be extremely helpful in the time you will be leveling up. Just be sure to know that your points ARE limited, meaning that you won't be able to do all four of these things to the best of your ability.

Now, that's what I'd like to see for each possible profession when creating a character. No starting person has any idea of how the tradeskill system works, taking out the need to even think of placing points in construct, repair, or anything else that could be potentially gimping. It's the fucking specialization killing this game, as everyone can see by now.
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+ Store-Quality Weapons

- Please raise the stats on store-bought weapons A LOT. It REALLY sucks as a newbie to use a 30% condition weapon, get some insanely low ROF gun, and get killed by a mob because the weapon's a piece of shit, and the newbie hasn't had the time to figure out how this complicating tradeskill system works.

I would recommend placing items at their quality cap in the stores. For example... a starting Stilleto would cap at 94% in the stores. I believe this is the same as constructing it. Now, if you did this, newbies could level with USEFUL weapons, without having to beg someone to tell them how the tradeskill system works so they can get a half decent weapon. There's still an incentive to have weapons built, as store-bought weapons still wouldn't have nearly the same potential for slots as if someone took the time to build them.

If you wanted to bring common sense into this... would you really go to a gun shop, and buy a shotgun if the barrel was slightly bent, the stock beat to shit, and the barrel jammed? That's about the equivalent to what we have in Neocron right now.

PLEASE MAKE THINGS EASIER FOR NEWBIES! Every time I find a new person, I shudder when I get to the part where I have to explain the tradeskill system. I usually end up just scaring them off, as they become even more confused.
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+ More Starter Cash! +

- You should REALLY raise the amount of money newbies start with. I would recommend starting them off with a nice sum of 25,000 credits. If you were worried about people exploiting it, then only allow a new character to be created once a day IE: 24 Hours, or find some way of letting the server detect if you've made too many new characters in a certain time period, like a week.

Sticking a newbie in an apartment with absolutely no direction is not the best thing to do. To top it off, they only get 200 credits. With 25,000 credits, they could do shopping, and as they level up, be able to buy new weapons and armor as they please. This idea ties directly in with the higher-quality weapons, and if they wanted to, they'd be able to afford a few of the store weapons with that cash.
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These are just a few things I think the newbie game is definitely lacking. If you were to pull off all these things, I would be willing to bet there would be a much larger amount of people willing to stay past the ten-day free trial. PLEASE remember to rate this 5-stars if you feel it's worth KK's attention. Thanks for reading, now add your own ideas!

[bounty]

excellent read Nvidia +1 reputation.

My next topic in The Neocron Voice volume 2 will be focused on new players. I agree, esp on the cash idea. You GR from MC5 and you are down to 200 NC, that is just flat out cruel.

[Epsilon 5]

i think the healing ability is the most important part.

[Menolak]

While the whole character-selection thingy looks too well-thought out to interest KK, I think it's a good idea, and the heal/money idea is awesome..good stuff.

[IceStorm]

I would recommend placing items at their quality cap in the stores. For example... a starting Stilleto would cap at 94% in the stores.I would prefer to see the weapons in stores start at the 75% range, like the Psi Spells

As for Psi... Every time I start a new character, I do missions until I hit level 20 in my mainstats. For my starter character, I did it via package runs and then research/BP missions. For the rest... I just hand them a stack of Duranium 3 vest BPs and go to town.

Delivery missions help people learn where things are in the city. I don't necessarily believe we should remove those early XP leveling tasks because learning the city is somewhat important.

Level grinding is part of MMOs. I don't necessarily have a problem with moving Psi up a few notches up for some classes, but one thing leads to another and pretty soon we're all starting with capped chars and just treating NC as a persistent FPS.

[tiikeri]

For money.. 25k is quite a lot. I would say make it random like between 1000-10000nc so that you would have chance of getting 0nc after u have GR:d from mc5..

And how many noobs, will even get to shops at their first try? I remember that even with my 3char (in 2 days) i hunted around mc5 to get around 5k.
(which was my tank - Wannabe).. and i was like soooo "WOW" when i got to the city first time :)

Timelimit between making chars.. for starting ppl -negative. I don't think that when ppl gets new game, they pick one path and cap it before they take next char. What i would think(made myself), ppl will try some possibilities and check the main races. For me, i tried each of them monk->pe->tank(who is capped now)->spy with in the first 3-4hours. IMO - the first 24hours of account it would have 15minutes delay between making chars, and after 24 it would be 30min. (And if the cash would be random, i think no one would want to exploit it cause you might end up having 0 nc after GR - and the with the time limit of 30min it would be frustrating)

In the end, i agree with you that there should be some sort of solution to make the game a bit newbie-friendlier. And better descriptions for weapons/spells/items.. think about some newbie trying to look spells descriptions.. i heard myself thinking many times:"WTF DOES SHELTER GROUP DO" or "DUH... wtf is parashock bolt" and all the barrel/halo/group/yadayadayada.

I think that with better stuff descriptions and with descriptions of skills in the charbuild, the game would be so much newbfriendlier game.

But nice post, makes me sad that loads of those things u said weren't there when i started.

- Wannabe

[Ralendil]

nice idea..


I hope it would have some features like that in nc2.
Especially the store quality weapon and the more starter cash. Many old players strat with like 200k ^^ from one of their another character...

So be kind with the newbies :angel:

For the Character Selection Helper I think it is a little too complex what you propose. I think they have to rewritten seriously the book of the game.

And the selection helper isn't a bad idea but not so comlplex...


(i am not english native plz forgive my english :))

[notneo]

yup uber post

i always wondered why psi stuff starts so high in comparison,i mean you can practicallly level with store bought psi,they even get slots

whereas all other weapons are to say the least cack

[seraphian]

Great ideas... you know we've had some really good posts lately around here, seems players are feeling really innovative lately :angel:


I like most of the ideas... the 'personality quiz' is interesting, I would just as soon they put more info in the manual (like accurate info... :p) and a better skill-guide.

As to the problem of making constructors obsolete with too good store-bought weapons, I'd say make it TL-dependant. by the time you're using a TL-80 store-bought you have the experiance to get one made, so leave those at like quality 30-40, but make newb weapons start at 90s and go slowly down from there based on rifles for instance:

An Archer Companion or a B-1 sniper (TL in the teens) sells at 95% quality.
A Sniper rifle or Assault rifle (TLs in the 30s) sell at about 70%
a Tangent commando or a Reeza's Gaze (80-90s TL) still sell at like 40%

that way newbs get good weapons, and constructors are still needed. And constructors don't end up doing charity work for newbs that need WP8s to build their TL-25 weapons and have ike 10k total on them ever.

[mishkin]

Leave the PSI as it is damnit, there are medpaks and alot of other healing stuff to eat. Noobs need to die to learn how to use a genrep. Medpaks aren't that slow, and if you need to heal faster, you find another player who can help you.

I for one wouldn't like to be told where to spend my points, at least not as accurately as you described it there, "130 base points in wpl"... This is what destroys a game like this in the first place, because it takes away the last little bit of individuality... I'd rather see something like a "?" besides every skill, which when clicked gives you a pop-up window with a description of what the skill actually does, but not how much of it you need.
(yes, I'm one of those who HATE wizards of all kinds when dealing with creative programs :p )

The starter cash increase sounds like a good plan, but we have no idea what the economy will be like when BDoY comes... Might be kind of overkill with 25,000nc, but who knows :o

All in all you're posting some minor changes, but imo most of them would make the game more dull, remove individuality (if there is any left), and lessen the need for player interaction. As it is now, a new player has to ask for help. The player to player help channel isn't there for nothing you know. ;)

[Scikar]

A player can't ask for help though until he's made his character.

I agree that giving specifics out isn't a good idea. Saying lots of weapon lore needed to use rifles effectively is good (because it's true). Saying 130 base is a good place to aim for is not so good.

I don't see a problem with the heals though, I think it's a great idea. Large pieces of meat are fine in the sewers, but medkits aren't enough for anything above that. And TL3 isn't going to stop newbies dying. That happens to every newb when they first meet a dragonfly, TL3 heal or not. :p

[tiikeri]

There should be some kind of popup or small note, that says like where WeaponLore is needed.

Drag your mouse on it and note pops up saying:" Weapon lore is a skill for aiming ranged weapon. I.E. Assault Rifle."
And MST: " Mental steadiness is required to use psi spells."

For newbies who downloaded the 10-day trial that would be handy. Cause many ppl are too eager to play the game before they start looking for the manual.

[MrChumble]

Great post, 5 stars :)

I've mentioned the store quality issue before, and still like my solution.

Each item has it's quality based on it's tech level, with an inverse relationship. IE low tech level means high quality. It makes practical sense, in that noobies can get good kit to start with but will need to learn about the tradeskills as they progress. It also makes common sense, as you'd expect simple items to be easy to build to a good quality, whereas a tangent plasma wave (for example) would be better if loving crafted by a highly skilled trader.

The low tech stuff shouldn't be too good, but it should be good enough to let the newbie aim, which they aren't just now.

Also I love your idea of a char creation wizard. I hope KK have done something similar.

[The Ottoman]

Not sure whether I like the idea of improving the quality of the weapons bought in a shop.
Let's not forget that players will be able to set up shops of their own in NC2. I'd hate it to compete with the npc shops.

[Mumblyfish]

I have nothing more to add - this is the best Brainport idea thus far. ReaKKtor, pay attention. It really isn't that difficult to implement, and God knows Neocron needs some new blood.

More reputation for nvidia, and http://neocron.jafc.de/images/rating/rating_5.gif. Brilliant.

[Alice]

My thoughts.

First, the "noob mission". I agree with giving them more money, but make them earn it.

Make a mission, ala epic, like the following.

"First off, you need to visit X at (your faction headquarters). To get there, you can either ask your way around, or use the Navray. The Navray is on F8, once you are there.. etc"

When you get to the person, he gives you some cash, and then sends you on another mission. Each of these missions, will help not only involve the noob in the game, but also teach them things that the tutorials do not. How to use a Citycom. How to pick missions. How to use navray to it's fullest. What kinda skill points to put into, what each of the shop sells, where to get noob armour from. Etc.

Maybe it should take about 2 hours to do, but at the end, they get 10k in cash plus maybe some items, like you get the choice of a weapon, maybe just medicant stuff/low level stuff, but it saves them having to go shopping too early.

I also STRONGLY agree about shop bought quality. Personally, I think shop bought should be decent quality, and then if you want slots (which we all know are a must for later leveling), then you got to a constructor. My friend is a noob, and trying to explain to him how to get a gun made, is so difficult, I fell into the habit of doing it for him.

The classes you get to pick at the start need a revamp. "privateer", "soldier" WTF?

I think the question system would work, but maybe a little more involving. Both Morrowind and Ragnarok Online use a question system, and it works pretty well.

"You see someone being attacked by a monster, you..."
-Ignore them, it might attack and kill you
-Cast a healing spell on the person, and then put a shield over them
-Open fire on the monster, hoping to distract it

That alone picks up a spy class, monk, and tank/pe. Ok a little bad with the spy part, but it can be redeemed later.

"A monster spawns infront of you, you..."
-Retreat to a safe distance, and attack it
-Cast a shield around you, and wait for the others to attack
-Rush it, hoping to catch it off guard

Etc.

A list of say 10 questions then would decide if you are best suited to a monk, PE, Spy or Tank. It then asks you depending on the types of subclass.

SPY

This class has the following subclasses.

Rifle Spy - This spy can use rifles for their damage. Rifles are normally mid to long range weapons, good at taking down the target in the distance. A rifle spy normally has to devote alot of his intelligence to Weapon Lore, so that he can aim better, and as such, most rifle spys do not have a trade skill.

Pistol Spy - This spy can use all manner of pistols. Pistols normally have a shorter range than rifles, but allow the user to do more mental tasks, such as hacking, implanting or even a trade skill such as barter, construction and research. At a high level, a Pistol spy is nothing to cough at, but will always do less damage than their Rifle brothers.

Drone Spy - This spy uses remote weapon platforms to do their damage. Droners are independant of the body, and so can fly around while your body is standing still, but this will leave your body vunrable. Droners have to be careful, as the drones are good at leveling their dexterity and intelligence, the rest of their skills are static, and even the most powerful droner can be taken down with a few shots if their body is found.

etc.

ok I'll be quiet ;P

[MjukisDjur]

This is really good and would help many new users getting into the game.
Strange how KK have not done something similar allready.


Btw, is it anyone more than me that thinks that the old "Wakeup, put together a rocketlauncher, help stormbots etc" intro was a lot cooler and helped people getting interested in the game than the crap that is in the game now?

[Weaponizer]

A bunch of excellent ideas here.

Although i have my doubts if KK will ever implement these. Even if they did implement em it might take a long while before it gets done (think DoY) :lol:

[System]

Great ideas, but will KK listen :-\..

Eps where the hell have you been!!!! Get ahold of me damnit

[NeoChick]

Great ideas, but I doubt KK will listen - but miracles do happen

I would add to that to add some more noob friendly training areas.
Killing rats and such is just too boring, tedious, unprofitable etc etc etc
from rats EVERYBODY usually moves to agressor cellar, you will find every man and his dog there, even chars level 3 or 4 sometimes.
At least give a few more cellars along the line of the aggie cellar

The PP sewers are supposed to be noob friendly but really they are pretty hard for a noob, if you get into them alive anyway.

Techhaven has always been a useless area for noobs to try and level, but perhaps they have improved on that.

And of course there is the bunker where everybody else races to once they are up a few points. Perhaps a few more areas similar to the bunker would be nice

[spongeb0b]

great post, I especialy like the healing part :cool: