View Full Version : I want indivuality back :\
short and Sweet, I miss being able to be an individual.
I miss being able to spend points anywhere you like, and still being able to kill shit and be viable.
Just a question, why DID KK up the requirements on so many weapons to such high levels? One of the things that kept me addicted to this game, was not having to care about anything, not having to care about whether or not I need an 'UBAR 1337 CON SETUP LOLROFLMAOKOS', or whether I need to utilize every single frikkin' skill point like its my last.
I want Individuality back!
As far as I remember, specialization was added because lots of people thought specialization didn't get rewarded. :p
EDIT: Also, in some part, the fact that people now know more has added to the need of getting better setups, in the old days 90% of the players had wacky setups, because of this, wacky setups worked for everyone, with there being a few "uber" players as exception. However, nowadays, a small percentage has wacky setups, which has caused the need for people to use non-wacky setups as well.
JackScratch
16-07-04, 19:36
Ill tell you why. It's because the focus of this game is flat screwed up. This has become a stat/leveling based version od Counter Strike. You cant do what you want because there are about 100 fuckers out there who will devote every damn point and resourse of their character to ganking you.
It'll just take one person, or a small group, to find a deadly effective PvP set-up that'll dominate others.
After that, see just how long the vaunted "individuality" lasts.
Peace.
-Moscow
Because wacky setups aren't fecking viable anymore.
You should be able to choose ANY setup you like, and still AT LEAST stand half a chance in battle.
I want Individuality back!
You and everyone else.... O_o O_o O_o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You and everyone else.... O_o O_o O_o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh dear Lexx, I'll get your coat for you :p
Oh dear Lexx, I'll get your coat for you :p
Ohh you takin me out for dinner? :D btw, ur sigs outta date try..
http://cgi.dgwebb.force9.co.uk/timerscripts/random.php
http://cgi.dgwebb.force9.co.uk/timerscripts/random.php
or..
http://cgi.dgwebb.force9.co.uk/timerscripts/noswg.php
http://cgi.dgwebb.force9.co.uk/timerscripts/noswg.php
Bah, so it is. I'll update it later.
Oi, Lexx? How come you have two Rep dots?
I have 132 Reputation points, after 100 you get two green blobs (I've only seen Jest and I with 2 green blobs so far).
I have.. 21 green dots followed by 1 red dot followed by 7 green dots and countin :) people <3 me (cept the 1 person who gimme a red dot, else i woulda been 28 dots, so I gave him a -, he went all the way back down to an unknown quantity :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: )
Damn. I have like, 14 points :p
GIMME REP FOO'S!!! :angel:
Damn. I have like, 14 points :p
GIMME REP FOO'S!!! :angel:
how much now? ;)
omg, I have 21 rep.
*Humps Lexx's leg*
I have 132 Reputation points, after 100 you get two green blobs (I've only seen Jest and I with 2 green blobs so far). Gah dang you. You are so close to me. :p And I owe you rep points so when I give you them you will get ahead of me. :(
Bah sorry for off topic. Yah I miss individuality. As for Moscows concerns, she has a good point, but really there are only so many skills you can place into that benefit fighting. Many people will place their left over points into skills like Agility or Psi Use, but personally Id kill to be able to have a tradeskill. Im on a one character server and my character has no real option fo tradeskills. Kinda sucks.
Gah dang you. You are so close to me. :p And I owe you rep points so when I give you them you will get ahead of me. :(
Down to 29 now... I guess I owe ezza some reputation.. in 24 hours when I can hit that button again :lol: :lol: :lol:
Doc Holliday
17-07-04, 03:46
Yeah but jest your sister is fit ;)
Down to 29 now... I guess I owe ezza some reputation.. in 24 hours when I can hit that button again :lol: :lol: :lol:
How do you get all that rep? Being nice to people and stuff?
I'm not sure I can do that. This system is clearly biased against angry moany people :(
How do you get all that rep? Being nice to people and stuff?
I'm not sure I can do that. This system is clearly biased against angry moany people :(
I'm not always nice, i got a fair few red dots, but i got a fair bit of rep for making my siggys and some from bein a rep whore and sayin "gimme + rep" a lot. I also end up with "you cant give rep for 24 hours" coz I keep giving it out to people at random :angel:
hmm who should i give rep points to :D
hmm who should i give rep points to :D
you goin down :p
There are good sides and bad sides to removing specialisation. On the plus side, classes will regain their strength in their primary skills. For example, spies are supposed to be good at most dex based skills, fast from agility, using dex based weapons, perhaps with a tradeskill too. Those dex skills are under dex because a dex based class should be good at them - yet you don't see very many spies and PEs driving because it ends up gimping their combat. If you think about it, someone who is extremely skilled at using rifles probably wouldn't be too bad with a pistol, as opposed to completely useless with a pistol due to the specialisation.
The downside is, everyone will actually be more similar, rather than less so. They will have more freedom, but everybody will cap their weapons (because that's the point, not capping weapons = not very viable). While pistol/rifle hybrids and so on will be more viable, they'll either cap both or cap neither. When it comes down to specific weapon types, every Lib user will have a fully capped Lib, every Tank a fully capped CS (and probably DG too while still capping force/pierce armor). So you might say it would lead to less variation.
That's assuming specialisation was simply removed as is though. What might work, is removing weapon damage caps, and fixing all RoF to max, as well as removing specialisation. There should of course be the same factor of diminishing returns as affects other skills (e.g. agility), but without the caps, setups will become far more varied. The reason capped weapons are required in order for a setup to be viable (in most cases anyway, hybrids aside) is because everyone else's weapons are capped too. Without caps, that 'standard' is removed. Someone with a low damage stat on a weapon might seem to be at a disadvantage, but they can make it up elsewhere with higher defence. Kami chips would become far more viable too. Note that it would be a major change though, and would most likely need serious weapon and class balance changes.
It also creates future problems when addressing balance - a new weapon might be introduced which happens to be overpowered for the few people specialising in that damage type but just right in the hands of a hybrid class. In that situation, the specialised character has to be balanced, as always, which would probably cause problems for most people not specialising.
Still, I would like to see specialisation removed, so long as the balance reworks etc. that would have to go with it are worked out first, on the test server.
There ... server.
Trust someone to try and raise the tone of a thread :cool:
I don't agree with you. You're saying that if everyone caps their weapons then we'll all be the same, but that's the situation we have just now. Difference is currently having 230 health or 235.
If it's possible to cap weapons at a lower level then it opens the door to experimentation and makes the class system less rigid. If my droner could cap without using every single available point I could go wild and use vehicles as well, or maybe have a tradeskill.
It would also mean you'd not need to have a capped char to be PvP effective, so people could LoM with less pain, try different things, and wouldn't need to grind their char from 0/2 to */60 before doing anything fun.
Tradeskills are my biggest gripe just now. To research properly you need ALL int into res, a full set of implants and ideally a lab. That's just to be quite good at it. I kinda object to paying for an entire account just so I can res stuff. I should be able to do it with my rifle spy, at least to a reasonable level.
To summarise: Specialisation = leveling treadmill = no experimentation = cookie cutter setups = less players = financial ruin for KK. So there :p
ps gimme some rep.
I think there's more variation than just 5 HP. To give a short and not exhaustive list of a few variations amongst the PE class:
Low Tech Libby
Low Tech PE
High Tech Judge
High Tech RoG
High Tech BoH
High Tech HL/SH
High Tech RoLH
High Tech Slasher/Exec
Depending on which weapon PEs aim for, the setup varies considerably. Also at high levels, some use lots of drugs to save on implants and deal more damage with their weapons and have better defences, others use less drugs and are less powerful but not restricted by pills.
If specialisation was just plainly removed, all those weapons would instead be capped. One Slasher/Exec PE would be practically identical to the next, and players would shift back from today's usage of implants like Exp Ballistic Weapon Chip, Distance Weapon CPU etc. to everyone using Motoric Chips, Psi Memory Chips, and Berserk Chips.
Note though that as I said above, I'm not objecting to removing specialisation as long as further changes are made at the same time, as I said above. :)
Low Tech Libby
Low Tech PE
High Tech Judge
High Tech RoG
High Tech BoH
High Tech HL/SH
High Tech RoLH
High Tech Slasher/Exec
That's not variation, that's using different guns O_o
Thats like me saying variation in the Droner class is using raptor or particle nemesis.
Using drugs etc is still gonna give more or less the same setup. Variation is driving a rhino, using capped libby and hacking on the same char. None of your proposed setups allow anything other than pure pvp, unless the PE wants to be rubbish.
That's not variation, that's using different guns O_o
Thats like me saying variation in the Droner class is using raptor or particle nemesis.
Using drugs etc is still gonna give more or less the same setup. Variation is driving a rhino, using capped libby and hacking on the same char. None of your proposed setups allow anything other than pure pvp, unless the PE wants to be rubbish.
Then we won't have variation without specialisation, just using different tradeskills. :wtf:
That's not just a case of all those PEs using different weapons. Their setups are entirely different.
Then we won't have variation without specialisation, just using different tradeskills. :wtf:
That's not just a case of all those PEs using different weapons. Their setups are entirely different.
They all still amount to exactly the same thing - a pure PvP setup. The only difference comes from how many drugs they're willing to take to use the next item/weapon. That's just extreme specialisation.
If you could cap weapons at a much lower level you could choose from any number or combination of subskills to sit along side it. A driving hacking pistol PE is a lot more different to a researching stealthing (bad kk!) recycler PE than a RoLH PE is to an Exec PE.
Lowering the reqs for guns isn't exactly a great way of going about it I'll admit, but if done properly I'd take diversity over cookie cutter any day.
Instead of now, where people choose the weapon they want to use, everyone would instead flock to the most powerful weapon (in this case Slasher/Exec, since it would become possible for people with MC5 chips to viably use them in a PE setup). So the only change is instead of everyone having the same tradeskill (i.e. none, though those PEs can implant or hack) but different weapons, people would use the same weapons but have differing tradeskills.
Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely 100% for increasing diversity amongst players. But I'm also 100% against misguided solutions to problems which create other problems, especially if they don't fix the original problem in the first place (belt drops and SL changes being the prime example of this).
A while back, a buddy of mine had a melee tank that capped the DG and could hack the first barrier of an OP..Is this still possible? I was thinking of trying out the template myself (he gave it to me)
A while back, a buddy of mine had a melee tank that capped the DG and could hack the first barrier of an OP..Is this still possible? I was thinking of trying out the template myself (he gave it to me)
You'd need a PPU buff to hack the OP itself, and you'd lose the ability to heal yourself mid fight, but if you only fight with a PPU then yes it works.
Remove the quality of weapons and increase the main subskill req for them. While ur at it remove ammo, item deterioration and item drop. When this is done u might just see a jiga in a server near u
Its that diversity I want to see. I WANT to see Melee tanks hacking OPs. I WANT to see PPUs who can use laserblades who pretend to be Jedis called 'Obi wan PPU'. I WANT FRIKKIN WEIRD CHARACTERS TO RUN AROUND THE STREETS OF NC/DOY! I want a Neocron freak show!!!
Shadow Dancer
18-07-04, 09:09
yea
I want to see PPUs cast Holy Lightning.
what? :p
THIS IS GoD
18-07-04, 09:11
Ill tell you why. It's because the focus of this game is flat screwed up. This has become a stat/leveling based version od Counter Strike. You cant do what you want because there are about 100 fuckers out there who will devote every damn point and resourse of their character to ganking you.
One word
Ok maybe Two
UB3R C4R3B34R
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