View Full Version : What do you think about the balance of the game?
Hi,
I am playing on Venus and a lot of Venus players think that the balance and the fun of the game (in terms of PvP) could be significantly improved by giving PPU less power. The reason is simple: after trying to remember the most beautiful battles we fought, we all realized that the best fights we had on Neocron were fights with a low number of PPU, if any. On the other side, we also all agreed on the fact that the current Venus PvP game (mainly based on couples APU/PPU) is efficient but extremly boring.
What do you think about that?
As far as I know, most of the English community has the same opinion. Though not as much by giving the PPU less power, as by making it that a PPU is not a requirement. There's a subtle difference between the two. ;)
Mumblyfish
16-07-04, 13:46
My beef exactly. In an ideal world, any team of four capped players would be as good as another team of four capped players. As in spy/spy/PE/tank is as viable in combat as APU/APU/PPU/PPU, or tank/tank/PPU/PPU. Ideally, I'd also give PPUs more offensive capabilities, then lower their ri-fuckulous defense.
Edit: The poll is a bit misleading. While I don't think Neocron is balanced in the slightest, I wouldn't say "It used to be a lot more exciting".
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 13:47
No pls not again a nerf PPU's thread! Is it not possible to get 1 week without it? The fun in PvP wont raise like hell with less PPU power, those that are good in PvP will still be good and those that are not good still wont be good!
And with may a half good PPU even one that kinda sux in PvP is able to life at least a lil longer then he will do alone!
I think balance is fine in the game, PPU's are not unkillable God's anymore and they only realy boost ppl up if the other side not got a PPU but is that the point? I think not! If the other side not got Snipers or APU's they also weaker, there is no point in it!
I would rater see more finetuning on the other classes like PE for example!
ya the ppus still imbalances due to his ability to give players god like abilities.
if a non ppud player goes against a ppu'd player then unless a freak of nature happens(player crashing or whatever)the ppud guy will always win.
if ppus abilitys on other players was scaled down to a point where it gave the ppud player a edge but not a auto win ability
that are good in PvP will still be good and those that are not good still wont be good! except now a crap player with a good ppu on his ass can kill the good player, it shouldnt be like that, it should improve the crap players chances not make it easy for them to win
Mumblyfish
16-07-04, 13:51
ya the ppus still imbalances due to his ability to give players god like abilities.
if a non ppud player goes against a ppu'd player then unless a freak of nature happens(player crashing or whatever)the ppud guy will always win.
if ppus abilitys on other players was scaled down to a point where it gave the ppud player a edge but not a auto win ability
Or rather, not where the PPU is the equivalent of a talking stat boost, but another combatant. A tank/PPU should beat a lone tank, but would be equal against a tank/tank or PE/PE combo.
I'd really like other classes to have a weak, expensive resurrect ability. Like a medical resuscitation ability for high-INT classes, with T-C as a requirement (making T-C more than just another requirement than guns, but a weapon/support class in it's own).
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 13:55
My beef exactly. In an ideal world, any team of four capped players would be as good as another team of four capped players. As in spy/spy/PE/tank is as viable in combat as APU/APU/PPU/PPU, or tank/tank/PPU/PPU. Ideally, I'd also give PPUs more offensive capabilities, then lower their ri-fuckulous defense.
Edit: The poll is a bit misleading. While I don't think Neocron is balanced in the slightest, I wouldn't say "It used to be a lot more exciting".
Uhm? A Hybrid with Blessed spells (is not the best defence or?) and a Halo will own spy/spy/pe/tank and only the PE will be kinda hard for him.
And like i said be4 i not see that PPU's got that mega uber defence at all! They can be killed they got killed and they will get killed! And if a spy/spy/pe/tank team is as good as a apu/apu/ppu/ppu team i would quit asap. Cuz then there is absolutly no diff what i play anymore! Every Class got something they are good at APU = offence, PPU = defence, Spy = Pistol/Rifle and all Tradeskills, Tank = quite good offence with ability to take a lott dmg, PE = well mix at all (may lil underpowered without stealth).
I realy not see why u ppl all time cry the PPU is to good, i just cant get the point out of it!
None of those options equal my opinion, the games balance has definitely improved over time but its still not right, PvP is basicly broken into 3 distinct parts, Op wars, City Skirmishes (PP1 and Outzone station...) and Duels. Right now the PE and Spy are far less viable in some of these situations.
I do think the PE and Spy have more use in Op wars and skirmishes than in the past but I think the games engine makes close up fighting easier which gives the advantage to tanks and monks.
I see no reason to fight with a PE now in anything other than Duels and Spies cant last any lenght of time in the zone line skirmishes.
Holy heal is far too strong me and a clan mate could not take down this APU who was standing still for a long time AFK or crashed what ever I was using a earp explosive he was using a speed gat. The ppu was healing the apu and running around the apu to make it hard for us to hit but we gave that apu a good blasting and could not kil him cos of holy heal.
Mumblyfish
16-07-04, 14:01
Uhm? A Hybrid with Blessed spells (is not the best defence or?) and a Halo will own spy/spy/pe/tank and only the PE will be kinda hard for him.
I'm talking about what a balanced game would be like, and how I'd like Neocron to be. Not what is is in it's current state :wtf:
And like i said be4 i not see that PPU's got that mega uber defence at all! They can be killed they got killed and they will get killed! And if a spy/spy/pe/tank team is as good as a apu/apu/ppu/ppu team i would quit asap. Cuz then there is absolutly no diff what i play anymore! Every Class got something they are good at APU = offence, PPU = defence, Spy = Pistol/Rifle and all Tradeskills, Tank = quite good offence with ability to take a lott dmg, PE = well mix at all (may lil underpowered without stealth).
I realy not see why u ppl all time cry the PPU is to good, i just cant get the point out of it!
I'd rather have the different classes represent different playstyles, not plain old "YOU ARE TANK, YOU SMASH ANYONE WHO ISN'T TANK REAL EASY GLEEE". Spies would represent things like the fast damaging bastards who are hard to hit, and the low-damage ranged supporter. Tanks are for those who like to soak up damage and deal it equally well, but they're slow and easy to hit, and so on for the other classes. But in combat they'd all be equally good, they'd just represent different playing styles.
I just don't like how the second you make your character, you're typecast into a certain role, and someone who just picked another class can practically automatically beat you.
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 14:05
None of those options equal my opinion, the games balance has definitely improved over time but its still not right, PvP is basicly broken into 3 distinct parts, Op wars, City Skirmishes (PP1 and Outzone station...) and Duels. Right now the PE and Spy are far less viable in some of these situations.
I do think the PE and Spy have more use in Op wars and skirmishes than in the past but I think the games engine makes close up fighting easier which gives the advantage to tanks and monks.
I see no reason to fight with a PE now in anything other than Duels and Spies cant last any lenght of time in the zone line skirmishes.
I saw a lonly Pistol Spy clean out PP1 once and there was like 2 Tanks and 1 APU inside who was enemie to the Spy!
I saw a lonly Rifle Spy own PPU's in a OP fight cuz of Spirit mod!
I saw a lonly Rifle Spy own APU's in PP1 fight kinda easy even when they was have shelt cuz he used Spirit SH + FL!
I saw 3 Droner Spys own a complete OP Team be4 they even was come to the OP!
So hey pls Spys are more usefull then they was ever be4!
PE's well uhm they are ... i dunno they ever was realy usefull? I mean ok there are / was lotta good PE's who was kinda uber in Duels but well i think they still are it. I still think PE's can use a little (<-- little i mean realy!) boost up!
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 14:12
I just don't like how the second you make your character, you're typecast into a certain role, and someone who just picked another class can practically automatically beat you.
When that is? Spy can beat every other class, Tanks can, PE's can, APU's can! So hu?
To the point if a APU/PPU Team can beat a lonly Tank but 2 Tanks can beat APU/PPU Team where would be the point of play PPU? I mean its a pure passive class with no or not realy a offence they only can heal and stuff?!
Still PPU is not a needed class at all! I have seen OP Fights where only Spy's was attack and they won even the defenders was have a PPU!
I think u guys just whant more easyer kills, why need to tweak out how get PPU's down fast and fair when i can whine on Forums it will be changed sometimes anyway! :mad:
Vampire_Reaver
16-07-04, 14:41
if a non ppud player goes against a ppu'd player then unless a freak of nature happens(player crashing or whatever)the ppud guy will always win.
so not true, sure it takes about twice the time to kill the PPUd player as if he were self buffed, but its not autowin, the foreign cast nerf is quite good enuff i think, maybe needs to be lowered a bit more, but sure, the PPU self casted boost needs to be lowered too, but to what? if you lower it so maybe 1 other person can take down a ppu as he can take down any other class, the PPU will be rendered worthless..
Cmon guys you know where this one heads, as soon as you lower the PPU's ability to protect others then the mobs and dungeons become too hard and the whole mob damage rules would have to be re-done.
Doesn't mean I don't agree with you though, but I just don't think this kind of massive adjustment will be made any time soon. :(
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 14:52
Cmon guys you know where this one heads, as soon as you lower the PPU's ability to protect others then the mobs and dungeons become too hard and the whole mob damage rules would have to be re-done.
Doesn't mean I don't agree with you though, but I just don't think this kind of massive adjustment will be made any time soon. :(
PvM |= PvP this talking is only based on PvP cuz PvM is only Server based and KK can tweak PvM far more easy.
Still i stay its good like it is now! Spirit Mod, Antibuff, Dev, Melee (PoB i.e.) does all give ways to kill PPU or PPU supportet players! And yes have a PPU makes sure u win at all!
so not true, sure it takes about twice the time to kill the PPUd player as if he were self buffed, but its not autowin, the foreign cast nerf is quite good enuff i think, maybe needs to be lowered a bit more, but sure, the PPU self casted boost needs to be lowered too, but to what? if you lower it so maybe 1 other person can take down a ppu as he can take down any other class, the PPU will be rendered worthless..
really?
so when i was standing in PP chatting to my clan, when i was ppud all the while i had 2 CS tanks a HL monk and a libby PE all trying to fill me with holes, and they were doing nothing.
i dont care about the ppus self cast, im more botherd about there ability to swing battles in regards to other players
When that is? Spy can beat every other class, Tanks can, PE's can, APU's can! So hu?
To the point if a APU/PPU Team can beat a lonly Tank but 2 Tanks can beat APU/PPU Team where would be the point of play PPU? I mean its a pure passive class with no or not realy a offence they only can heal and stuff?!
Still PPU is not a needed class at all! I have seen OP Fights where only Spy's was attack and they won even the defenders was have a PPU!
I think u guys just whant more easyer kills, why need to tweak out how get PPU's down fast and fair when i can whine on Forums it will be changed sometimes anyway! :mad:
And I think you have your head so far up your PPU's ass that you can't see the imbalance you bring to the game. APU/PPU team vs 2 Tank team should be even. Neither side should be vastly more powerful than the other. You say what would be the point of playing a PPU? Ever thought what people think now when they don't have a PPU? Suppose me and my 3 buddies want to take your OP. You only have yourself and an APU, but we don't have a PPU. Which side wins? Yours. So what's the point in me playing if I can't always have a PPU stuck up my ass?
Cut PPUs down to blessed hybrids or something, take down their defence and give them offence to make up for it. Then you have your reason to play a PPU - it's just the same as everyone else's reason to play their class.
A balanced team containing a mix of classes should be rewarded, but no single class should be essential for a fight like the PPU is.
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 14:57
really?
so when i was standing in PP chatting to my clan, when i was ppud all the while i had 2 CS tanks a HL monk and a libby PE all trying to fill me with holes, and they were doing nothing.
i dont care about the ppus self cast, im more botherd about there ability to swing battles in regards to other players
If thats true they cant hit ya at all!
If thats true u would win any OP fight easy!
If thats true u would be God!
If thats true there wont be any dead ppl in fights if both sides have PPU's!
If thats true they cant hit ya at all!
If thats true u would win any OP fight easy!
If thats true u would be God!
If thats true there wont be any dead ppl in fights if both sides have PPU's!
There generally aren't any dead people in fights for a good 10 minutes if the PPUs are any good.
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 15:02
And I think you have your head so far up your PPU's ass that you can't see the imbalance you bring to the game. APU/PPU team vs 2 Tank team should be even. Neither side should be vastly more powerful than the other. You say what would be the point of playing a PPU? Ever thought what people think now when they don't have a PPU? Suppose me and my 3 buddies want to take your OP. You only have yourself and an APU, but we don't have a PPU. Which side wins? Yours. So what's the point in me playing if I can't always have a PPU stuck up my ass?
Cut PPUs down to blessed hybrids or something, take down their defence and give them offence to make up for it. Then you have your reason to play a PPU - it's just the same as everyone else's reason to play their class.
A balanced team containing a mix of classes should be rewarded, but no single class should be essential for a fight like the PPU is.
I am no PPU and no i got my head not in PPU's ass!
It realy lott fun to see ppl flame / cry / whine on Hybrids cuz they was overpowerd and now all whant to make PPU's zo Hybrids?
If its like 3 Tanks vs 2 Hybrids u will still loose to the Hybrids! So nerf them to dead or no i know what! We should just remove the Monks at all or? Yeah come on that woud fix the balance and only would make uhm 70% Quit NC!
If thats true they cant hit ya at all!
If thats true u would win any OP fight easy!
If thats true u would be God!
If thats true there wont be any dead ppl in fights if both sides have PPU's!
you think im lying?
another occasions i take on 5 merc tanks while ive got a ppu.
a short while later all 5 of the mercs are dead and im still standing.
and i aint a good tank, decent setup but crap aim.
if i can do that with a ppu, great players can take on lots more, and ive seen it done.
if you have belief problems maybe you suck as a ppu or somthing.
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 15:03
There generally aren't any dead people in fights for a good 10 minutes if the PPUs are any good.
So good and balanced fights are 5 mins and less?
I think, if you nerf melee tanks a very little bit. And power the spys. The game will be rather balanced.
So good and balanced fights are 5 mins and less?
Absolutely. I expect people to die when I empty 10 clips of CS ammo into them - not see them running around fully healed thanks to Holy Heal, Shelter and Deflector. Otherwise what's the point in me being any good at the game, when everything depends on the PPU? I don't even have to be able to aim when I have a PPU to parashock all of my targets.
Your lack of experience as a PPU shows when you think Spirit mods and Antibuff are the way to balance PPUs.
I think you greatly overestimate hybrids also, 2 Tanks vs 2 Hybrids is an even fight.
I think, if you nerf melee tanks a very little bit. And power the spys. The game will be rather balanced.
tbh i think spies are fine, i have sniper spy, its rare in the wastelands that i lose when sniping.
and i have seens some great pistol spies takeing any and all up close.
though i agree on melee
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 15:13
you think im lying?
another occasions i take on 5 merc tanks while ive got a ppu.
a short while later all 5 of the mercs are dead and im still standing.
and i aint a good tank, decent setup but crap aim.
if i can do that with a ppu, great players can take on lots more, and ive seen it done.
if you have belief problems maybe you suck as a ppu or somthing.
No i not said u lying at all, i just say if 2 Tanks + 1 APU + 1 PE shoot u and they all hit u will go down if u only stand around! Thats all i was mean no offence to u or anything!
Yes Tank/PPU could easy outake 5 Tanks true but still i think / belive that the Tanks if they are realy good would have a chance to take u down!
5 x CS on 1 Tank will do hard dmg even against PPU buffs!
And i dont know why it should not be this way? I play D&D as well and a high level Fighter + high level Monk (may chosed to be a good healer) will outake 2 high level Fighters! Cuz there the Monk got beside a good defence as well a good offence!
Why should something thats Pure defence be weak? Thats like call something thats pure offence should do less dmg then a CS!
..i..DemonX
16-07-04, 15:16
I think you greatly overestimate hybrids also, 2 Tanks vs 2 Hybrids is an even fight.
Can i say LOL? 2 Tanks vs 2 Hybrids is even? haha ur good! I dont know what server u play and no clue what Hybrids u got there but on Pluto there are / was Hybrids (Britney, Kayne i.e) where i would say 2 Tanks vs 1 Hybrid is not near to even!
Vampire_Reaver
16-07-04, 15:28
really?
so when i was standing in PP chatting to my clan, when i was ppud all the while i had 2 CS tanks a HL monk and a libby PE all trying to fill me with holes, and they were doing nothing.
i dont care about the ppus self cast, im more botherd about there ability to swing battles in regards to other players
riiiight, u mistook the cs tanks for 2 lowlvl hc tanks with unlabeled PC? and the libby pe for a mendicant smg using PE?
ok no bashing but thats not possible, if they hit you right on with the whole mag im impressed by your setup, cause thats just not possible.. even if you're buffed and got heals all the time..
but sure whatever u say pal, me and my friends took down 2 tanks, one mc and one hc, 1 apu and a ppu with just 1mc tank and a ppu, we had a apu too for about 5 mins but then he went down.. sure it wasnt easy, and maybe they werent the greatest of players, but ill belive it when u send me the vid of that..
what, not my fault you people are so shit you cant get good resists, then with a damn good ppu on my ass i happily stood there chatting away.
and for a man who has tradeskiller in his sig and lists tradeskills on his title with plaza 2 as location, how much action do you get to see to judge me ans call me a liar
Why should something thats Pure defence be weak?
why should be they able to totaly swing a battle in a instant.
they can keep there own defences, but being able to make the fighter he has with him godly aint good
No i not said u lying at all, i just say if 2 Tanks + 1 APU + 1 PE shoot u and they all hit u will go down if u only stand around! Thats all i was mean no offence to u or anything!
Yes Tank/PPU could easy outake 5 Tanks true but still i think / belive that the Tanks if they are realy good would have a chance to take u down!
5 x CS on 1 Tank will do hard dmg even against PPU buffs!
And i dont know why it should not be this way? I play D&D as well and a high level Fighter + high level Monk (may chosed to be a good healer) will outake 2 high level Fighters! Cuz there the Monk got beside a good defence as well a good offence!
It shouldn't be like that because of a little thing called balance.
Why should something thats Pure defence be weak? Thats like call something thats pure offence should do less dmg then a CS!
I think you need to check the meaning of the word passive again. Passive is not the same as defensive. PPUs aren't necessarily masters of defence, they are masters of passive psi use. The strength of the PPU lies in his ability to strengthen others - that doesn't mean he should have godlike defences as well.
I want pre patch melee dmg with the new dmg types, hybrids removed, healing light nerfed, pistol range lowered, blessed and holy heal nerfed. Oh and of course all sorts of shock removed.
Vampire_Reaver
16-07-04, 16:01
what, not my fault you people are so shit you cant get good resists, then with a damn good ppu on my ass i happily stood there chatting away.
and for a man who has tradeskiller in his sig and lists tradeskills on his title with plaza 2 as location, how much action do you get to see to judge me ans call me a liar
:lol:
i dont even wanna answer but here goes :p
got nrg res capped on my tank, ppu buffed and constant heal against 3 ppl, 2 cs tanks + hl apu , all capped = me dead. even with full nrg res. so i guess the ones shooting at you werent so good at aiming..
and to the sig comment, I really dont have to type in all my chars. or do i?
:lol:
i dont even wanna answer but here goes :p
got nrg res capped on my tank, ppu buffed and constant heal against 3 ppl, 2 cs tanks + hl apu , all capped = me dead. even with full nrg res. so i guess the ones shooting at you werent so good at aiming..
and to the sig comment, I really dont have to type in all my chars. or do i?
Well that's the whole point. Your ability or Ezza's ability is irrelevant. What really matters is the skill of the PPU you're teamed with. In that fight, Ezza was teamed with an excellent PPU, who would have kept him permanently healed while also keeping the enemies DBd and parashocked (most likely anyway). You can be the most skilled PvPer in the game but if you're teamed with an average PPU and your enemy has an exceptional one, you'll lose.
Vampire_Reaver
16-07-04, 16:25
Well that's the whole point. Your ability or Ezza's ability is irrelevant. What really matters is the skill of the PPU you're teamed with. In that fight, Ezza was teamed with an excellent PPU, who would have kept him permanently healed while also keeping the enemies DBd and parashocked (most likely anyway). You can be the most skilled PvPer in the game but if you're teamed with an average PPU and your enemy has an exceptional one, you'll lose.
it all comes down to skills is what you're saying then, and thats true, if im teamed with a crap PPU and my enemy is teamed with a great PPU it would prolly come down to that noone would win IF you're any good at dodging and aiming at all.
But if you stand still and just blast away, yes I would prolly lose.
Same if you take 2 PEs battling out without PPUs. They can go on forever if they're any good at keeping themself buffed and healed and not getting hit constantly..
but its the same if you say 2tanks vs 2 tanks.. 2 of them are capped and good players, and the other 2 are one really good PvPer and the other one is average, they will prolly lose yes. same sheet, different name.
Why should something thats Pure defence be weak? Thats like call something thats pure offence should do less dmg then a CS!
Its not that a ppu should be weak or easily killable its that he shouldnt bestow his near invunrebility to those around him, yes he should improve their defence and offence but not to the extent that they do now,
I think it comes down to making shelter and deflecter self cast only.
It all depends on skill..that's it..I got owned by a capped tank once, and I had a PPU behind me, maybe he was a crappy PPU, I dunno..Ravager hurts, though, buffs or not
(although I wasn't high level, like 46/53, something like that)
and a good combat spy owns, I wanna make one..oen particular guys used to own me, and I watched him bitchslap CS tanks, whatever, with a Slasher and Executioner, I think..(I wont name his name, but he's ex TG Final Resistance, CM now)
Shadow Dancer
16-07-04, 18:33
You can be the most skilled PvPer in the game but if you're teamed with an average PPU and your enemy has an exceptional one, you'll lose.
This is soooo true. PPUs affect pvp way too damn much. There have been several instances of me and a good ppu "clearing out" groups of people without a ppu.
To also give strength to Scikar's point, there were times that I took out 2 ppus and several people, because my PPU was so damn good. Why should the skill of a PPU affect pvp so damn much? Why should a ppu + blah, be able to take out a group of people without a ppu? That is lame. Most importantly, it's unbalanced. Famous PPU+(insert whatever class) teams are mostly about how good the PPU is.
Many of the good fights i've had in NC, has also been with a lower number of ppus or no ppus. Most fun, most memorable...........
*sigh*
I hope KK tweaks or alters PPUs for NC2.
As for the Poll, I think PvP is far from balance mainly due to the PPU. Let's say he wasn't even in the game, then I would say that pvp is very close to balance and would just need a few tweaks here and there.
It's funny how many things the PPU affects.
"Omg guards are too strong"
"Duh, they have to make it that way so they aren't a breeze when you have a ppu"
"Omg mc5"
"ppu"
etc.....
PvM, PvP, everything. It's rediculous.
IMHO it's the Holy Heal that is overpowered.
Make all heals equal to TL3 heal. Just make blessed and holy run longer.
JackScratch
16-07-04, 19:33
Im sorry, but when discussing balance, I believe the issue is sadly blured. Balance is always the conversation of gankers who are mad because there char cant ******** every other class silly. This is not a PvP FPS, it is a complicated socioeconomic RPG with FPS PvP as one of its many features, yet all the vocal members of this comunity want to do is balance ( to their specifications ) PvP, to the detrament of all else. Balance, no balance, leave it the fuck alone. I would truly love to see this game reach itsa full potential, I once believed that could be done by crafting political influence throughout the community. I now believe that it can only be done by Carebearing the fuck out of the game, ruining it in another manner, all because there is no game rule that says, "if you are a fucking animal with no manners or sence of sportsmanship you will be banned.", and people will not do it alone because of ignorance or apathy.
I saw a lonly Pistol Spy clean out PP1 once and there was like 2 Tanks and 1 APU inside who was enemie to the Spy!
I saw a lonly Rifle Spy own PPU's in a OP fight cuz of Spirit mod!
I saw a lonly Rifle Spy own APU's in PP1 fight kinda easy even when they was have shelt cuz he used Spirit SH + FL!
I saw 3 Droner Spys own a complete OP Team be4 they even was come to the OP!
So hey pls Spys are more usefull then they was ever be4!
PE's well uhm they are ... i dunno they ever was realy usefull? I mean ok there are / was lotta good PE's who was kinda uber in Duels but well i think they still are it. I still think PE's can use a little (<-- little i mean realy!) boost up!
I'm not saying the classes are totally ineffectual just far less effective in those situations, I'm killed multiple people with skill and a bit of luck when I should of died BUT in the vast majority of PvP situations tanks and monks make more sense and have more uses.
shaKa le vrai
16-07-04, 19:56
To my mind all these APU/PPU teams remove all the fun in op wars, currently an apu with a permanent holy heal casted on him cannot be killed even under heavy fire...
Its obvious that we need a nerf on foreign cast heal.
Disturbed021
16-07-04, 20:25
I think things are pretty well balanced right now between spies, tanks, PEs and APUs, however, a huge problem is when you throw a PPU in the mix balance goes to hell.
It is imo that PPU needs adjusting and para needs to be removed or reduced to almost nothing.....and stealth needs a drug haze or cool-down period or more effective way to combat to make it a little more balanced. No heavy nerfage just little tweaks.
I played a PPU for a long time and got good at him and tbh my ultimate conclusion is this. As long as PPUs exist then the game will be unbalanced. PPUs dont want less power. I didnt want less power. Its a hard job being a good PPU, and nerfing that role further would just suck. But I was needed sooo much. For hunting, for PvPing, there was always something I needed to be doing. Without the PPU we couldnt really fight anyone. And if we fought some one who didnt have a PPU, we'd always feel bad afterwards. Like it wasnt even worth the time. We'd just destroy them even if we were outnumbered. Tbh I dont know what should happen. It just seems like we are caught in a shitty Catch 22 situation that we cant get out of. I dunno, this is probably overly optimistic but maybe BDoY will help solve the problem. It might not fix it directly, but it could at least give us something more to work with.
I'm talking about what a balanced game would be like, and how I'd like Neocron to be. Not what is is in it's current state :wtf:
I'd rather have the different classes represent different playstyles, not plain old "YOU ARE TANK, YOU SMASH ANYONE WHO ISN'T TANK REAL EASY GLEEE". Spies would represent things like the fast damaging bastards who are hard to hit, and the low-damage ranged supporter. Tanks are for those who like to soak up damage and deal it equally well, but they're slow and easy to hit, and so on for the other classes. But in combat they'd all be equally good, they'd just represent different playing styles.
I just don't like how the second you make your character, you're typecast into a certain role, and someone who just picked another class can practically automatically beat you.
It would work like that if all forms of tradeskills were removed from the game. then classes wouldnt be balanced around their fighting, and if applicable Tradeskills. Right now its balanced more along the lines of "Pure Fighting classes" and "fighting/tradeskill" classes. and the latter can still be a really good fighter if he goes and specializes in it, just as they can be the best tradeskillers if specialized in it. Hard to balance/justify equality in fighting with that thrown in.
-Crono
I think the game is not balanced - screw PvP... There's nothing else in the game. While yes, it will keep a hardened PvPer enganged and content for a clip of time, there's absolutely nothing else to do once capped.
That is crap, that should change.
Forget OMG PVP BALANCE, fuck it. What's needed is game balance, and it needs it asap.
I think the game is not balanced - screw PvP... There's nothing else in the game. While yes, it will keep a hardened PvPer enganged and content for a clip of time, there's absolutely nothing else to do once capped.
That is crap, that should change.
Forget OMG PVP BALANCE, fuck it. What's needed is game balance, and it needs it asap.That too. Which is why PvP needs balance cause thats all thats left at the end. :p
That too. Which is why PvP needs balance cause thats all thats left at the end. :pEvery single patch has changed something in regards to PvP... Yet the world hasn't changed a bit, ok, so something gets spawned over yonder for someone to kill... Wheee... But not a single thing has changed - at all.
I think the priorities are screwy, I hope it changes. Part of me really doubts it will though.
I think its as close to balanced as its ever been. KK have really put a Firework up their own asses as far TRYING to balance-out the PvP situation goes. Kudos to them.
whoa nice unbiased poll, we don't get to see too many of those
JackScratch
16-07-04, 20:56
That too. Which is why PvP needs balance cause thats all thats left at the end. :p
I love this shit, "Thats all that's left in the end." You decide that PvP is the only thing in the god damn game and thats just the end of it, the final word. You are too blind or stupid to see all the other things that this game is made up of and so the rest of us have to suffer? What a self centered ego maniac.
I love this shit, "Thats all that's left in the end." You decide that PvP is the only thing in the god damn game and thats just the end of it, the final word. You are too blind or stupid to see all the other things that this game is made up of and so the rest of us have to suffer? What a self centered ego maniac.:lol: I was being sarcastic. I'd much rather see game content and a more active involvement with events and storyline as Marx was saying, but sadly we don't have that. So unfortunately the only thing we seem to be able to do is PvP. I am more devoted to events and roleplay than you are Jack, get your head out of your ass. :rolleyes:
JackScratch
16-07-04, 21:07
Well while I apologise for the mis understanding, there are a lot more things to do in NC now, as is, than just PvP. There is a whole sociopolitical economic environment to screw around with. While PvP is a crutial part of that environment, to say it is all that is left is to give in to the unruly chaos that this game currently suffers from.
I fully agree to Shadow Dancer's post. The ppu-balance is far from good, because the boost effect to a single damage dealer is to high: freeze, damage boost and outhealing a lot of damage with a Holy Heal for example.
I also think, that they should balance the support spells and that introducing the spirit mod was wrong, because it's extremly overpowered. The problem is actually not the strong defense of the ppu, but his overpowered means of support. ( Now we have a no-skill method to kill excellent PPUs in an op-fight and a new overpowered class: The well-played stealth-spy on drugs with a spirit-sh and a second rare weapon. The result is, that we need more PPUs for an opfight to resurrect etc., but the ppu support is still too strong. )
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