View Full Version : Melee Overpowered Fact or Fiction
Promethius
14-07-04, 19:30
Melee now a days does too much dmg for the majority of its weapons. Theres a erason why low lvl melee users can take down High lvl other chars. Though the biggest part of melee that needs to be nerfed is the PoB. Not talking a sledgehammer nerf that renders it useless.
I suggest that PoB stacks its poison and each stack lasts longer than a dev stack and shorter than a poison beam. The actually dmg on it is fine, its just the poison is instant.
I would also like to see like a 5-10% nerf of the dmg on ALL non rare melee weapons.
Anyone else have any other suggests?
-Prom
Melee now a days does too much dmg for the majority of its weapons. Theres a erason why low lvl melee users can take down High lvl other chars. Though the biggest part of melee that needs to be nerfed is the PoB. Not talking a sledgehammer nerf that renders it useless.
I suggest that PoB stacks its poison and each stack lasts longer than a dev stack and shorter than a poison beam. The actually dmg on it is fine, its just the poison is instant.
I would also like to see like a 5-10% nerf of the dmg on ALL non rare melee weapons.
Anyone else have any other suggests?
-PromI think we should wait on changing anything until all the weapons are adjusted based on TL v. Damage like melee is.
Hence, I voted "I like tuna fish".
Promethius
14-07-04, 19:34
I think we should wait on changing anything until all the weapons are adjusted based on TL v. Damage like melee is.
I thought the dmg was already based on Tl ?
The freezer is what does the overpowering remove or nerf it and its good.
I thought the dmg was already based on Tl ?
With melee it is, all the other weapons are still screwy in regards to it.
melee dmg is fine what need to be done tho is DAMN FREEZERS REMOVED or nerfet to oblivion..... :cool:
Just remove the freezers and wait for the balancing to finish to make a judgement. Oh and drones have been balanced according to tl but its only those 2 weapon types that have been.
Promethius
14-07-04, 19:43
So by saying "wait for everything to be based on TL" Does that mean HL / CS / Dev adn all thsoe other weapons will be increased? Or you saying all weapons will be increased Dmg to balance out melee's dmg?
Its saying that TLs on all weapon types are going to be changed and its damage adjusted to its tl, I vaguely remember it being said that melee damage is set at 115% of the current heavy damage with equivalent tls
So by saying "wait for everything to be based on TL" Does that mean HL / CS / Dev adn all thsoe other weapons will be increased? Or you saying all weapons will be increased Dmg to balance out melee's dmg?First off, they will be rearranged. It might be made so the CS is no longer TL 105... It might be increased, decreased, etc.
More weapons might be added.
Eventually, all TL 115 weapons will deal the same damage.
All TL 105 weapons will deal the same damage.
All TL ... etc.
First off, they will be rearranged. It might be made so the CS is no longer TL 105... It might be increased, decreased, etc.
More weapons might be added.
Eventually, all TL 115 weapons will deal the same damage.
All TL 105 weapons will deal the same damage.
All TL ... etc.
I thought the weapons would still be doing respective damages regarding their type? Like APU > Melee > H-C > R-C > P-C > Drones, or something like that.
I thought the weapons would still be doing respective damages regarding their type? Like APU > Melee > H-C > R-C > P-C > Drones, or something like that.
Thats what I thought too
Promethius
14-07-04, 19:50
Its saying that TLs on all weapon types are going to be changed and its damage adjusted to its tl, I vaguely remember it being said that melee damage is set at 115% of the current heavy damage with equivalent tls
Wat do you mean? Melee does 115% more dmg for the same TL as an HC weapon?
Also PoB is def overpowered. PPU's can barely outheal a PoB. Its just like the dev was when it first came out. Insta psn dmg. IMHO alot of people have melee chars so they dont want to see there new chars get nerfed in anyway.
-Prom
I thought the weapons would still be doing respective damages regarding their type? Like APU > Melee > H-C > R-C > P-C > Drones, or something like that.
Maybe, I only paid partial attention to Lupus threads; all I know is that the weapon reworks will make it so equivalent TL weapons will do (semi) equivalent damages.
shockers and Paw of bear are fucked up
and please no one tell me I should spec more poison resist. That's bullshit.
Wat do you mean? Melee does 115% more dmg for the same TL as an HC weapon?
Also PoB is def overpowered. PPU's can barely outheal a PoB. Its just like the dev was when it first came out. Insta psn dmg. IMHO alot of people have melee chars so they dont want to see there new chars get nerfed in anyway.
-Prom
No does 15% more damage, I dont know what sort off ppus you hang about with but their setup must be brutal.
Shadow Dancer
14-07-04, 19:55
Remove the freezer and turn the insta-poison from POB into stack poison. But def not as long as poison beam.
Maybe, I only paid partial attention to Lupus threads; all I know is that the weapon reworks will make it so equivalent TL weapons will do (semi) equivalent damages.
I believe that what Lupus said was that weapons would be balanced for their TL within the weapon type. That is, a TL100 rifle should do more damage than a TL90 rifle (and that's not always the case right now). However, I don't think he meant balancing TLs between all weapon types with each other. I mean a TL100 APU spell shouldn't do nearly the same damage as a TL100 Drone IMO. Obviously weapons like raygun rifles and fusion rifles are a little different because at the closest range, a raygun rifle at say TL90 could maybe do the same damage as a TL95 or TL100 "consistant" weapon, but its still going to be generally TL based.
I agree that poison melee is overpowered. The balance between offence and defence in the game is there for every other weapon type in the game except for the PoT and PoB. Shelters and Enr/Xray/Fir protects from those types of weapons and Deflectors, Prc/Frc armor protects from those types. For APU poison there is of course the poison belts, viper king armor, anti poison drugs and anti poison spells. Since melee is instant damage, does a good deal of damage and has a high frequency most of these are not sufficient protection against it. In fact the only good protection is vary large amount of poison protection, a very good sniping position or a ppu parashocking constantly.
I dont use melee(use to, its kinda fun sometimes), but hears an idea to people, change your preshious con setup to include poision :P
Ive heard so many say "im not speccing poision just for 1 weapon"
To bad :P Dont leave a gaping hole in con resists and then complain when u get owned by it. a Viper King vest and good poision resist will greatly reduce that weapons dmg on you. Blade type melee if had the option of dmg mods, the only viable one would be poision tipped anyways.
And SD, remove the freezer? what are you nuts :P remove the freezer once you remove any other classses Para so only a "Pure" PPU can cast it. You dont liek getting shocked? I dont like getting Para'd (2x as strong a shock) by Spies/PE's/Hybrids. Their dmg classes way more then a PPU, so they Para you your equally dead, espically if your melee ;P u just out range it.
-Crono
I believe Melee is slightly overpowered. It delivers constant fast blows of quite powerful hits for it's TL, does not slow down the user and does not require any ammo (therefore no reload period).
Either the RoF needs to be slightly decreased or damage output per hit needs to be reduced.
Although classes well never truely be 100% balanced the wave of new melee tanks generally indicates that they are more powerful that other classes.
No, their just taking advantage of the poision dmg, and mocking all you fools who have uber con setups because you thought you could get away with skimping on the poision resist :P haha.
Maby ill LOM out 95% of my energy resist (which would make it the lvl of posion resist more people have in their con, if they even specced any at all lol ) and wear a Viper King armor to protect from poision, then complain about how much dmg Plasma weapons do :P
-Crono
[TgR]KILLER
14-07-04, 21:42
i do have "some" poison.. already specced poison when the dev came with the poison mod..
Eventually, all TL 115 weapons will deal the same damage.
All TL 105 weapons will deal the same damage.
All TL ... etc.
Sorry, but that makes NO sense whatsoever... are you telling me that a really really advanced pistol should do just as much damage as a really really advanced cannon? Weapons are pretty balanced right now with respect to PvM IMHO, but because all PvP usually happens within 5 feet of the other guy, the advantages or some classes (rifle's range) is eliminated and the disadvantages of some (the low range on Melee and APU) are negated by both the close range of PvP and the clipping pane...
IMHO the only thing that needs balancing is a little less range on melee (a BoC and a Libby have simular range under some circumstances, especially when you consider the libby has to aim... that is SO WRONG) and they need to make APU spells have to target lock intead of 'point and hit' a short lock time, but at least some... then they would balance beutifully for PvP and PvM
Maby ill LOM out 95% of my energy resist (which would make it the lvl of posion resist more people have in their con, if they even specced any at all lol ) and wear a Viper King armor to protect from poision, then complain about how much dmg Plasma weapons do :P
...I have plenty of poison resist but it's not like all melee weapons do posion. Only 3 of the rares do.....
Stack on PoB = the end of melee tanks.
Then it would be just like only force and piercing.. no use. get 3 hits on enemy, he pops a antidote and poof.. oops melee tank got killed.
Yes, spec more poison. PPL who have specd poison dont have hard times with PoB melee tanks.
Couple days ago we did a few tests only the damage output.
One hit with PoB to me took a little less than 30 damage. One hit with DG did less than 35. No buffs(or might had haz3 - not sure :) ), just armor. And i "cap" fire,energy and xray + poison isn't capped.
So tell me, really.. why should PoB start making stacks?
Or does ppl really wanna kill melee tanks, as they are fine now (atleast for me).
how much damage does DG do to ppl who have specd xrr and has shelter.. like almost nothing...
GOTO 1
- Wannabe
...I have plenty of poison resist but it's not like all melee weapons do posion. Only 3 of the rares do.....
Yea, but those are the real ones everyone is complaining about ;P
No one should be saying anything about the DG or anything. And most the good lower lvl melee weapons have had their TL doubled along with the requs to use them. maby the lower lvl non rare melee weapons need some looking at, but i havent experianced them first hand in a long long long time :/
-Crono
Yea, but those are the real ones everyone is complaining about ;P
No one should be saying anything about the DG or anything. And most the good lower lvl melee weapons have had their TL doubled along with the requs to use them. maby the lower lvl non rare melee weapons need some looking at, but i havent experianced them first hand in a long long long time :/
I just feel there needs to be a slight RoF ajustment really. Nothing major.
I just feel there needs to be a slight RoF ajustment really. Nothing major.
That could be, it has been a while since i Really played melee allot. maby just a distance adjustment on their range, cause it should really be the best at melee range, But right now melee range is close to like 5 times the length of my arm :P
-Crono
Onos..
Don't touch melee :)
Even there is a "range" if u can call it that. It's not much. And if it seems that it is more like 5 arms than 1 arm, its cause of the client-server lag/bug/feature what ever..
Even with this 5 arms long range.. did you consider the melee-"feature" there is? like if "the pray" is running away from u, it seems that he's running right next to u but you can't hit him - why? cause of the client-serverside"bug". Something to do with positioning etc blaahblaahblaah..
You'll get my point when u think about killing spiderbots.. GRAAAH!!!! i've lost 10000000000 hairs because of that.
@RoF .. grab a knife (i prefer plasticknife :) )- slash the air with that as fast as u can. i bet u dont really need "skill" to slash with the knife faster. Or take a hmm.. aluminium pipe and slash with that.
Or do a bit of shadowboxing.. i would compare hitting with PoB as you hitting with your fist. Assuming that PoB/PoT/any claw is made from very light but hard material. I think you would have about the same "ROF" with your arm until ur exhausted, as slashing with knife.
I agree on that RoF should be checkd from swords, BIG HEAVY SWORDS.. like umm.. BoC perhaps.. but DG.. how much laser weights... i bet the hilt isn't that heavy..
Ok enough of babbling this time.. bad english etc :)
- Wannabe
Promethius
14-07-04, 23:01
I dont use melee(use to, its kinda fun sometimes), but hears an idea to people, change your preshious con setup to include poision :P
Ive heard so many say "im not speccing poision just for 1 weapon"
To bad :P Dont leave a gaping hole in con resists and then complain when u get owned by it. a Viper King vest and good poision resist will greatly reduce that weapons dmg on you. Blade type melee if had the option of dmg mods, the only viable one would be poision tipped anyways.
And SD, remove the freezer? what are you nuts :P remove the freezer once you remove any other classses Para so only a "Pure" PPU can cast it. You dont liek getting shocked? I dont like getting Para'd (2x as strong a shock) by Spies/PE's/Hybrids. Their dmg classes way more then a PPU, so they Para you your equally dead, espically if your melee ;P u just out range it.
-Crono
lol, I can survive 15 stacks of capped poison beam, But a PoB does alot of Dmg to me, Dont give me that speccing crap.
melee was fine as it was, i could kill people with it before the increases
i dont blame melee tanks for wanting to keep the damage, hey its like hybrids protected themselves when t hey were overpowerd.
i amongst a small few(marx being one) fought for melee way back, but now i feel melee has gone one step beyond.
remove slowdown on HC weapons and ill entertain the melee tanks as they are ;)
lol, I can survive 15 stacks of capped poison beam, But a PoB does alot of Dmg to me, Dont give me that speccing crap.
LOL.. well who can't while the heal is running..
And whats the difference? when u have poison stacks, u can zone and the poison effect is gone.. but u can't escape PoB, cause its direct... and did you also notice that PoB isn't pure poison... force and piercing is funny thing too.......
Promethius
14-07-04, 23:09
Stack on PoB = the end of melee tanks.
Then it would be just like only force and piercing.. no use. get 3 hits on enemy, he pops a antidote and poof.. oops melee tank got killed.
Yes, spec more poison. PPL who have specd poison dont have hard times with PoB melee tanks.
Couple days ago we did a few tests only the damage output.
One hit with PoB to me took a little less than 30 damage. One hit with DG did less than 35. No buffs(or might had haz3 - not sure :) ), just armor. And i "cap" fire,energy and xray + poison isn't capped.
So tell me, really.. why should PoB start making stacks?
Or does ppl really wanna kill melee tanks, as they are fine now (atleast for me).
how much damage does DG do to ppl who have specd xrr and has shelter.. like almost nothing...
GOTO 1
- Wannabe
Stack doesn't = the end of melee tanks. It just doesn't make them AS effective. They will do the SAME dmg just over time. Waiting an extra 4 secs for a stack of PoB is nothing to bitch about. There will be plenty of melee users still and many just as effective.
Also someone suggested a slight RoF reduction, I like this idea. They dont ever have to reload (isnta stamina boosters dont count) so not only is there psn dmg instant but so is there attack in general.
Plz stop saying "omg u noobs spec for it" People DO spec for it (some more than others) the fact is that speccing only does so well especially because psn dmg isn't affected by shelters. They nerfed the dev with its stacks for a reason and its time for the PoB to get nerfed for teh same reason.
Prom
Promethius
14-07-04, 23:11
LOL.. well who can't while the heal is running..
And whats the difference? when u have poison stacks, u can zone and the poison effect is gone.. but u can't escape PoB, cause its direct... and did you also notice that PoB isn't pure poison... force and piercing is funny thing too.......
I was refering to my HC tank, which in itself has loads of prc/ force resist, so try again. Hey when people use dev / poison beam , its true when they zone they loose affect, so why should PoB be any different?
We understand that you dont want the class your having alot of fun with to get nerfed or made anymore difficult.
Ezza said it best.
-Prom
Well how would u feel if we start a post saying "OMG NERF HL AND MAKE IT STACKABLE" ? :)
And what char are u talking now again? ur monk which has 10 base poison resist + perhaps a medium belt? with those huge 200 hp:s u have? and when buffed 50 poison + belt? pfff, with haz and melee3 300hps
And stacking would kill PoB-tanks, yes... think about PP1.. i can hit you 100000 times with pob in a row, and then u just zone.. bling.. nothing happened.. but now u can't run from it.. when it hits u it hits.
Its fine, stop whining and spec some more - if not enough.. then take a dive.
Edit: Cant read while typing :)
but anyways.. have u ever checkd how much damage u take from one hit of PoB? i bet its not more than 20-30... so why it needs to be nerfed? If stacked.. the melee tank would take a dive eventually when waiting for the stacks to take some effect.. and like i said earlier.. DG against shelter = crap. so the only viable damage maker is PoB, cause of its nice combination of force/piercing/and instant poison.
Yea they are overpowered, so nerf em a little but not much. Fix the thing about a 5 slotted melee rare unmodded has arti stats, make them get damage mods, like poison etc. so unmoded they dont do all 3 kind of damage.
Yea they are overpowered, so nerf em a little but not much. Fix the thing about a 5 slotted melee rare unmodded has arti stats, make them get damage mods, like poison etc. so unmoded they dont do all 3 kind of damage.
Am i the only melee tank defending this shit? and i'm not even lowtech..
but anyways, i could go with the mod thingy.. but the damage nerfed.. no way. i think dentist would be better with the fire then PoB without poison.
Well how would u feel if we start a post saying "OMG NERF HL AND MAKE IT STACKABLE" ? :)
stupid, how can a hl stack O_o
And what char are u talking now again? ur monk which has 10 base poison resist + perhaps a medium belt? with those huge 200 hp:s u have? and when buffed 50 poison + belt? pfff, with haz and melee3 300hps
And stacking would kill PoB-tanks, yes... think about PP1.. i can hit you 100000 times with pob in a row, and then u just zone.. bling.. nothing happened.. but now u can't run from it.. when it hits u it hits.
Its fine, stop whining and spec some more - if not enough.. then take a dive.
on my tank with about 500ish health and 92 poison resist and viperking. still I get whooped, like theyre weilding hot glowing knives and I'm a piece of butter that's already been out in the sun too long.
People PLEASE stop using that. not sure if this has come up in this thread but It's as STUPID as saying use your range as an advantage
Oh and then come the shockers. zap zap zap zap (they always miss 3outta 4) blam you're glued to the ground. antishock drugs? don't make me even giggle a little bit
//edit:
gah whats the normal text color? :/
tiikeri, once tiny itsy itsy question: Are you a melee tank?
Argh Didn't read, ofcourse you're a melee tank rofl
shockers and Paw of bear are fucked up
and please no one tell me I should spec more poison resist. That's bullshit.
Spec more poison.
:p Couldn't help myself.
Anywho.
With a ppu with 70 poison(base) + a haz3 + holy s/d, the PoB still rips him up.
And how can you say this isn't overpowered?
They need a slight nerf. Not a sledgehammer like everything else always gets, though.
slaughteruall
14-07-04, 23:28
Well how would u feel if we start a post saying "OMG NERF HL AND MAKE IT STACKABLE" ? :)
[ edited ] Why dont we just make poison beam instant and watch everyone bitch about that.
And what char are u talking now again? ur monk which has 10 base poison resist + perhaps a medium belt? with those huge 200 hp:s u have? and when buffed 50 poison + belt? pfff, with haz and melee3 300hps
My ppu buffed has around 92 poison resist if i threw on a heavy poison belt i still take a shit load of dmg from a stupid melee tank.
And stacking would kill PoB-tanks, yes... think about PP1.. i can hit you 100000 times with pob in a row, and then u just zone.. bling.. nothing happened.. but now u can't run from it.. when it hits u it hits.
Would not kill melee tanks only the good one's would be left. Some tamls would LOM back to HC since melee would no longer be overpowered.
Its fine, stop whining and spec some more - if not enough.. then take a dive.
Most people do spec POR. You people should learn that.
Edit: Cant read while typing :)
but anyways.. have u ever checkd how much damage u take from one hit of PoB? i bet its not more than 20-30... so why it needs to be nerfed? If stacked.. the melee tank would take a dive eventually when waiting for the stacks to take some effect.. and like i said earlier.. DG against shelter = crap. so the only viable damage maker is PoB, cause of its nice combination of force/piercing/and instant poison.
And APu's dont take a dive while waiting for poison to take effect? What about HC tanks? Just becuase DG is shit against a char with shelter does not mean that PoB should be overpowered like it is.
Slaughter
Again... i would really like a explanation...
Why is it overpowered when u make 20-30 damage per hit?
It's not the damage what counts, its the matter of moving around and the ammount of succesful hits.
edit: @2play, and wots ur frc/prc? pob tank can't take down a ppu with good poison resist if the ppu knows how to heal himself.
For monks, isnt the dangerous part about that weapon the Force dmg? i thought that was one of the monks biggest weakpoints? i mean if you have all that poision resist (90 is allot for that, though with such low con, how in the world could you afford 90 poision resist, is everything else increadibly gimped, how much energy/xray and most of all, HP can you have with that setup?) Then its most likley the other aspect of the weapon thats hurting.
-Crono
Alot more is fucked up with melee other than the paw of bear and the shocker, the range on the melee weapons can match a CS , the stamina drain isn't enough , they are faster than alot of classes and dont suffer penaltys when weapon is out . Basicly melee before the last patch was good a good few played it but it was more even .
To be a good melee tank is simple, with my /56 one with his con at like 60 i can take down alot and i dont really worry about losing hp cause i can barely be hit and i cap my weapons so i deal alot of damage. Now my HC tank is another story to be able to aim effectively i have all my points in hc as much as i can leaving none left over for force resist , so to face a melee tank i gotta out play them or im dead .
A fix for the melee tank would be sorting out the points needed to cap the weapons , range reduction but this wont work as i hear they need to range to make sure they hit at all so a stamina increase wouldnt be to bad and maybe some pa that takes from athlethics like a HC-tanks does, Also when heffting about big ass swords claws and so on they must weigh something even to have a slight reduction in speed would be something
Shadow Dancer
14-07-04, 23:47
Your a idiot plain and simple. Why dont we just make poison beam instant and watch everyone bitch about that.
:lol:
Poison beam would still be crap.
And SD, remove the freezer? what are you nuts :P remove the freezer once you remove any other classses Para so only a "Pure" PPU can cast it. You dont liek getting shocked? I dont like getting Para'd (2x as strong a shock) by Spies/PE's/Hybrids. Their dmg classes way more then a PPU, so they Para you your equally dead, espically if your melee ;P u just out range it.
-Crono
hmmm?
I don't think there's any human on this planet that wants para removed, more than me.
lol, I can survive 15 stacks of capped poison beam, But a PoB does alot of Dmg to me, Dont give me that speccing crap.
That's not the same thing. I'm not saying POB is balanced, but you have to remember poison beam is a piece of garbage.
Stack doesn't = the end of melee tanks. It just doesn't make them AS effective. They will do the SAME dmg just over time. Waiting an extra 4 secs for a stack of PoB is nothing to bitch about. There will be plenty of melee users still and many just as effective.
Exactly. :cool:
still I get whooped, like theyre weilding hot glowing knives and I'm a piece of butter that's already been out in the sun too long.[/color]
lmfao
:lol: :lol:
For monks, isnt the dangerous part about that weapon the Force dmg? i thought that was one of the monks biggest weakpoints? i mean if you have all that poision resist (90 is allot for that, though with such low con, how in the world could you afford 90 poision resist, is everything else increadibly gimped, how much energy/xray and most of all, HP can you have with that setup?) Then its most likley the other aspect of the weapon thats hurting.
-Crono
APUs are weak to pierce and poison. So yea pob is deadly.
I think it does a bit too much damage. I don't believe 2ply though, about pob "ripping up" someone with 70 base poison resist, haz, and deflector. That just sounds like a big fat exaggeration.
I know my apu takes an avg of around 50 damage from pob last time I checked, but that could have been some luck.
slaughteruall
14-07-04, 23:51
For monks, isnt the dangerous part about that weapon the Force dmg? i thought that was one of the monks biggest weakpoints? i mean if you have all that poision resist (90 is allot for that, though with such low con, how in the world could you afford 90 poision resist, is everything else increadibly gimped, how much energy/xray and most of all, HP can you have with that setup?) Then its most likley the other aspect of the weapon thats hurting.
-Crono
If you re-read the posts your referring to we are talking about PPU's
@n3m: Wannabe has always been a melee tank, and will always be, no matter if it gets nerfed to hell :)
Edit: Guys on the same clan who made a melee tank after me are called wannabe wannabes :)
And still i can't see how 20 damage done on tank is SO much.
Like how much CS does damage to xrr capped tank when 2-3 of the shots hits?`
Whats the difference.. ppu apu tank cunt ... if no force then ur screwd.
If you re-read the posts your referring to we are talking about PPU's
Yea, but dont the same dmg types stiill applie, i mean they have the same Str/Con caps. I know a PPU will have the shelters and such though.
All melee weapons should do onlypeirce/force, but there should be dmg mods like uranium tipping, or poision tipping and such. They should do a mix of direct/stack dmg. infact all physical type dmg with a poision mod should do a tinyu bit of direct along with a stack.
-Crono
@n3m: Wannabe has always been a melee tank, and will always be, no matter if it gets nerfed to hell :)
And still i can't see how 20 damage done on tank is SO much.
Like how much CS does damage to xrr capped tank when 2-3 of the shots hits?xrr and nrg capped? depends on CS :P
about 23-35ish damage.
BUT melee can just keep on slicing, hc have to get the recticle closed (just a little is enough to hit yeah) and also has to reload while melee can just keep on slicing like a little 6 year old kid on his new sled. You can't just keep your left mouse button pressed and aim a little bit, if you do that you might aswell type /set_kill self 1 and have everyone laugh and sex your corpse.
/edit:
omg
kuifje, I see you snooping around :p
I don't care now it is overpowered I will now make a melee tank I prove it I will spam that rare shocker like a bitch I also hate PPU's so I made one to piss people off. I think I'm allready making my point in pepper park by parraing every enemy I see just wait till I cap my ppu I'll spend most of my time parra shocking and ruin the fun.
@n3m: there is just one minor thingy... stamina drain.. i hear loads of ppl saying that melees just can keep running around and keeping the mousebutton down. It used to be that way, pre-patch.. but now it drains stamina like hell.. prolly not as much as the staminadrain on speedgat when running, but its huge anyways. Tho it's taken care by just popping a booster.
And i dont think meleeing is just running around and pressing the button. Cause the key is the speed, it comes hard to aim when running around cause ur just so feekin fast :)
Oh yeah.. CS can knock ur feet.. melee can't :/ (yeahyeah stunners.. stunners are gay.. in PP i don't use it until someone uses it to me or paraz)
yeah but running around with a CS shooting away 1 clip also takes your stamina down to nothing
and for a CS to knock out your opponents feet you need a couple of good shots
yeah but running around with a CS shooting away 1 clip also takes your stamina down to nothing
Hell even using the libby does that for us that know not to spec stam but no worrys we have these things called stamina boosters :wtf:
Edit: I don't know why monks have not complained yet try pummping a few PSI boosters and whatch how fast your stam goes and monks don't get alot of it.
oh well.. i guess there is only one way to solve this thingy..
mc tank vs hc tank duels..
(I know i know dark :) i'm at work.. sorrryy ;) )
And i bet without lag, we'll get quite even scores.
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 00:20
Yea, but dont the same dmg types stiill applie, i mean they have the same Str/Con caps. I know a PPU will have the shelters and such though.
All melee weapons should do onlypeirce/force, but there should be dmg mods like uranium tipping, or poision tipping and such. They should do a mix of direct/stack dmg. infact all physical type dmg with a poision mod should do a tinyu bit of direct along with a stack.
-Crono
STR/CON does not mean much to PPU's with self cast holy shields. Well CON does but not really STR. And my ppu only has enuogh xport to carry spells and 31 boosters. I have no problem with libby's or speed gats just the over powered melee weapons. BTW i cap every resist on my ppu besides poison which i have around 92 with buffs. Which is about as close as i will ever be to capping poison. This is with shields btw.
STR/CON does not mean much to PPU's with self cast holy shields. Well CON does but not really STR. And my ppu only has enuogh xport to carry spells and 31 boosters. I have no problem with libby's or speed gats just the over powered melee weapons. BTW i cap every resist on my ppu besides poison which i have around 92 with buffs. Which is about as close as i will ever be to capping poison. This is with shields btw.
Then if u cap ur force/prc and have high poison res.. then there is only one question.. u dont have skills? how come other ppus tolerate it easily but u dont?
Hell even using the libby does that for us that know not to spec stam but no worrys we have these things called stamina boosters :wtf:
Edit: I don't know why monks have not complained yet try pummping a few PSI boosters and whatch how fast your stam goes and monks don't get alot of it.Yes exactly, same for melee.
Yes I know it hurts. You have to get ur qb just right. but you can't really afford to 'waste' slots on anti shock drugs and all the other antidote stuff n all that junk
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 00:25
Then if u cap ur force/prc and have high poison res.. then there is only one question.. u dont have skills? how come other ppus tolerate it easily but u dont?
[ edited ] Without a antibuff only a melee tank can kill me while i'm ressing. Why you ask because it takes no skill to play a overpowered class. Especially when there is like 10 of them running around a OP.
Yes exactly, same for melee.
Yes I know it hurts. You have to get ur qb just right. but you can't really afford to 'waste' slots on anti shock drugs and all the other antidote stuff n all that junk
Speaking about Quickbelts OMG just lomming to PPU from apu and what a bitch to setup a ppu's qb
Edit:
Then if u cap ur force/prc and have high poison res.. then there is only one question.. u dont have skills? how come other ppus tolerate it easily but u dont?
Well my PPU is just a nib with no posion I only just went PPU and its my first attempt and POB it just don't kill me so don't why other ppu's are having a problem meh .
sigh I did it again dobble post
again.. 20 damage on one hit = OVERPOWER... right yeah..
And u wanna make ur ppu immortal? whats the fun there then?
"omg my ppu just died, cause i got 10 melee tanks on me" - yea you should die.
And yes, i read. And yes it needs skills to play ur "OVERPOWERED" char.
What would be the point in the game if no one could kill a ppu without antibuffing apu? - IMO every class should have a counter class, what could kill the other - not easily, but would have a chance to kill.
And again and.. ever tried to play melee tank? or ever tried to hit a fullybuffed with spy3/melee3/<addurfavouriteresistboosterhere> when holy heal sanc running + the ppu is using the lower rezz and running around?
As somebody with melee tanks on 2 servers and with another recently lommed to HC I agree that shockers should be thrown into the bin along with all para spells or just made into an energy damage weapon, think Lupus said something along those lines about shockers if they couldnt be balanced, with the PoB it makes sence that it does stacking damage rather then instant damage the fact that its poison damage implies it should do damage over time.
The poison damage on a PoB should be kept or if not replaced with another damage type as the problem I used to find with using with it is that nearly any enemy you come across has capped or near capped force and piercing resist which makes the weapon less effective then it should.
Those who think the stam drain on melee weapons is still too little should try using a melee character for half an hour to see what its really like, just used 20x4 stam booster 2s in 1 swamp cave run and it would of been worse if I had of been using a double edge sword rather then a laser blade.
To the ppus who say that they have over 100 poison resist and still get owned I ask the question how are you getting owned?Have you got deflector up? Have you got too much transport instead of force resist? Have you got the bone enforcements you can use in? I really dont get how my ppu which has about 80 poison with a haz on can talk to an attacking melee tank as long as he keeps up his def heal and heal sanc, actually I can outheal 2 that way and I really dont understand how others cant.
I agree the raise in damage on melee weapons was too much and its obvious to everyone especially with the usual flavour of the month class people either rerolling or lomming to mc that it was overpowered compared to the current damage of weapons with maybe the exception of drones but then again drones are the only other weapon type to of gone through its revamp by KK and after KK get around to implementing the revamps on other weapons it might not be so bad in comparison.
Can't be assed to read the thread but..
I lommed my Melee PE to low tech rifles when melee got its boost b/c if ur some1 that likes a fair fight melee is rediculous. And that only a paw of tiger lol.....
Melee is a bug
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 01:34
And u wanna make ur ppu immortal? whats the fun there then?
"omg my ppu just died, cause i got 10 melee tanks on me" - yea you should die.
No one said anything about dieing to 10 melee tanks. [ edited ]
And yes, i read. And yes it needs skills to play ur "OVERPOWERED" char.
No it doesn't hold down mouse button and move around and mow everthing down.
What would be the point in the game if no one could kill a ppu without antibuffing apu? - IMO every class should have a counter class, what could kill the other - not easily, but would have a chance to kill.
Spirit SH perhaps? So what is the counter to the overpowered melee tank?
And again and.. ever tried to play melee tank? or ever tried to hit a fullybuffed with spy3/melee3/<addurfavouriteresistboosterhere> when holy heal sanc running + the ppu is using the lower rezz and running around?
Yes i have a melee tank. Only has con of around 60 and none capped STR and he has been killing a shit load of people. A fully buffed PPU with heal and heal sactum? With those spells running on a PPU (self cast) and your bitching you cant dmg one? Dude it's a fully buffed PPU. You think a HL/CS/FL/exec does alot of dmg in that case?[ edited ]
@snow When did someone same anything about 100+ POR on a ppu? I'm sure evey monk has the top of the line for bone imps they can use. Oh wait those are basic bone imps.[ edited ]
Slaughter
No one said anything about dieing to 10 melee tanks. Where did you learn to read? Because it seems you should go back to school again.
Just to say, that i have completed my schools long time ago, and i guess my employer wouldn't like to send their automation administrator back to school.
No it doesn't hold down mouse button and move around and mow everthing down.
If u really think that way, u should play some more of ur melee tank..Cap him first and then share us with the uber knownledge of Melee Tanks.
(and yea its easy to mow down noobies lvling in aggies)
Spirit SH perhaps?
Oh yes.. like everybody has a SH. And Spirit SH it self isn't enough to take ppu down, u need that + HL.
So what is the counter to the overpowered melee tank?
APU who knows what to do, does the trick easily.
Dude it's a fully buffed PPU. You think a HL/CS/FL/exec does alot of dmg in that case? Once again think before you post.
Then tell me - why u have problems with melee tanks? If no one can hurt u when ur fully buffed. The damage inflicted by melee tank is not made by one hit.. more like 100 hits.
Seriously, play some more of that melee tank of yours, PvP with him (and i dont mean noobkilling), fight me for instance. Then come here posting how about you feel about the stamina loss, and is that PoB damage so high you say it is.
@snow When did someone same anything about 100+ POR on a ppu? I'm sure evey monk has the top of the line for bone imps they can use. Oh wait those are basic bone imps. You and tiiken both need to go back to school.
With a ppu with 70 poison(base) + a haz3 + holy s/d, the PoB still rips him up.
Thats 100 and since most ppus have a filter heart one it goes over 100 posions resist, now since you obviously cant read do you want me to help you with your abc's?
Oh wow you cant use experimental imps on a ppu, want everyone to cry that you only have 20 levels of str, +51 piercing and + 80 force form ppu 3 pa and holy spirit armour and heavy fire belt aswell as having a self cast holy deflector, what more do you want? If you want me to cry you a river because your crap and cant read then its not going to happen and your trolling comments reek of immaturity and the only reason Im stooping to your level is because Im fucking wrecked tired.
Just because you cant spec your character against another class doesnt mean taht class is overpowered so kindly stfu and keep out of balancing threads if you cant think of balance.
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 02:05
Thats 100 and since most ppus have a filter heart one it goes over 100 posions resist, now since you obviously cant read do you want me to help you with your abc's?
Not every person uses a filter heart plain and simple. I know some monks that use a advanced heart. So now take that base number you had there and factor that heart in. Not over 100. Simple isn't it. And dont start that shit about only shity monks use it. One of the best PPU's on saturn uses it.
Oh wow you cant use experimental imps on a ppu, want everyone to cry that you only have 20 levels of str, +51 piercing and + 80 force form ppu 3 pa and holy spirit armour and heavy fire belt aswell as having a self cast holy deflector, what more do you want? If you want me to cry you a river because your crap and cant read then its not going to happen and your trolling comments reek of immaturity and the only reason Im stooping to your level is because Im fucking wrecked tired.
Did i mention exp bones, or even adv bones? Your jumping to conclusions about everything posted so far.
Just because you cant spec your character against another class doesnt mean taht class is overpowered so kindly stfu and keep out of balancing threads if you cant think of balance.
I can think of balance your the one that is not posting facts about anything. just worthless things about other people. And BTW my HC tank caps force and pierce and has around 70 natural POR. So as you can tell your worthless comments about speccing for a certain class is not warranted or even valid.
Just to say, that i have completed my schools long time ago, and i guess my employee wouldn't like to send their automation administrator back to school.
It's employer not employee. I'm a system administrator for a WINNT/WIN2K/HPUX system with somewhere around 700 employee's last time i checked. Plus i have quite a few other duties that i have to attend to on a daily occurance.
If u really think that way, u should play some more of ur melee tank..Cap him first and then share us with the uber knownledge of Melee Tanks.
(and yea its easy to mow down noobies lvling in aggies)
i plan on capping him sometime. He is my newest epic whore. I only play him i'm i'm board of my other chars. Since most people dont know who he is. I never said i was a uber melee tank. just stating facts that melee is overpowered. pretty simple really.
APU who knows what to do, does the trick easily.
And a melee tank can kill a APU in what 8 swings? Yeah that's effective. :rolleyes: .
Then tell me - why u have problems with melee tanks? If no one can hurt u when ur fully buffed. The damage inflicted by melee tank is not made by one hit.. more like 100 hits.
Another comment that makes me think you have not read the thread. The RoF has been said numerous times to be to fast. A high rate of fire can equal a overpowered class. That and a spammable and powerfull shocker is overpowered.
Slaughter
@snow When did someone same anything about 100+ POR on a ppu? I'm sure evey monk has the top of the line for bone imps they can use. Oh wait those are basic bone imps.
Did i mention exp bones, or even adv bones? Your jumping to conclusions about everything posted so far.
Top of the line implies experimental bones.One dude posted about getting owned when he had 100 with haz 3 100+ means 100 or more I proved my point.
Dude did you even bother to read all of what I wrote or just decide to troll and flame?If you had bothered to read everything said I said that they are overpowered but most probably wont be when damage and TLs of other weapons are redone, so to spell it out to you after KK are currently changing all weapon tl and their damages to balance the game and when they are finished they should all be in balance, its just a matter of waiting for KK ro implement it which they are obviously trying to get through before the release of DoY, if you cant understand that I dont know how to dumb it down any further.
It's employer not employee.
If u check that part again, u might see i had typing error which i fixed already.
i plan on capping him sometime. He is my newest epic whore. I only play him i'm i'm board of my other chars. Since most people dont know who he is. I never said i was a uber melee tank. just stating facts that melee is overpowered. pretty simple really.
How can u make such a stament when you don't know how the capped mctank really is played. You can't say that "IT JUST IS".
And a melee tank can kill a APU in what 8 swings? Yeah that's effective.
And how many HLs does it take to kill mctank with capped enr? less than 8.
So i can't really see a problem there. I've done numerous duels with good APU, and somehow this overpowered class of yours is the one losing. And yes, i consider myself as good mc tank, it's my main char.
The RoF has been said numerous times to be to fast. A high rate of fire can equal a overpowered class. That and a spammable and powerfull shocker is overpowered.
So its the RoF that is the problem to u, not the damage inflicted. Like i wrote earlier.. does it take much to swing a butterknife? or try to emote the move tank does when he charges with PoB. I think it's quite realistic, and that's the way i like my games - "as realistic it can be"
Bout the shocker.. again :) i said earlier, i think it's gay, and i intend not to use it until someone else uses somekind of para.
And if you could forgive me my babbling typing.. its 3:30am here and i'm pretty much fucking tired :)
Only 3 MC tanks voted out of 68 possible, yeah right....
I havent even voted on this as there isnt an option I agree with and I dont waste my time with spam options.
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 02:39
Top of the line implies experimental bones.One dude posted about getting owned when he had 100 with haz 3 100+ means 100 or more I proved my point.
Not when i say that they can use. You even quoted that part of it.
Dude did you even bother to read all of what I wrote or just decide to troll and flame?If you had bothered to read everything said I said that they are overpowered but most probably wont be when damage and TLs of other weapons are redone, so to spell it out to you after KK are currently changing all weapon tl and their damages to balance the game and when they are finished they should all be in balance, its just a matter of waiting for KK ro implement it which they are obviously trying to get through before the release of DoY, if you cant understand that I dont know how to dumb it down any further.
Beleave me i did read that. Does that not make melee overpowered at it's current place and time? That is what we are talking about here. Not when DOY is released. What good does that do to help us right now. maybe KK should of waited untill all of the TL reworks were done before overpowering one class over every other class.
If u check that part again, u might see i had typing error which i fixed already. Glad to see you can use a edit button. To bad i already quoted you on it.
How can u make such a stament when you don't know how the capped mctank really is played. You can't say that "IT JUST IS".
Well lets see here i cap every melee rare there is. And i only have STR 92 with PA and imps. So lets see i cap my zero slot DG and i'm still what 25 STR lvls to cap. And i cap resist force, and have natural transport. So by this statement i can drug to hell and back and use and cap EVERY melee rare.
And how many HLs does it take to kill mctank with capped enr? less than 8.
So i can't really see a problem there. I've done numerous duels with good APU, and somehow this overpowered class of yours is the one losing. And yes, i consider myself as good mc tank, it's my main char.
Unless you get really good roles for the dmg on a HL that is the only way you will drop a tank in 8 hits if they cap ENR. Nothing like seeing a big fat 25 comming of from a unbuffed tank. If your losing you must be fighting like shit tbh. i dont care what you consider yourself it's what others think of you. I can think i'm a uber rifle PE even thou i've never played one.
So its the RoF that is the problem to u, not the damage inflicted. Like i wrote earlier.. does it take much to swing a butterknife? or try to emote the move tank does when he charges with PoB. I think it's quite realistic, and that's the way i like my games - "as realistic it can be"
Bout the shocker.. again i said earlier, i think it's gay, and i intend not to use it until someone else uses somekind of para.
And if you could forgive me my babbling typing.. its 3:30am here and i'm pretty much fucking tired
I never said if it was RoF or dmg that made them overpowered. Either or if not both could do with a slight nerf not much just a little.
I agree with the shocker i dont even carry one. I have only used it to test it out on freinds/clan mates.
It's cool it's 8:35 pm here i've been at work for 12 hours now. Only 2 hours to go :D.
Slaughter
Umm ...
Sorry to piss on your respective barbecues but the core problem with melee currently is a code issue with how it's damage is applied.
Hint: Think about body hit zones and succesive hit dmg reduction that is a feature of other weapon types.
The problem has been identified and verified and the people that need to know have been informed - up to the code team to fix it now.
There's no point tuning/balancing melee in it's current state - you are starting from a broken foundation.
hmmh.. well dunno bout the exact caps of PoB/DG cause i overcap m-c big time :) But i think its near 200 MC to cap DGs dam and rof.
And bout the APU vs Mc.. 2-3 HL shots from apu to tanks legz and its teh win.(aye hate to see a crappy roll) I hear it almost everyday on vent from the particular APUbastard :(
If tank manages to get on close combat with apu without apu knocking feet, Mc has a chance ;) otherwise.. the monk can do moonwalk and still be faster :/
I carry my shocker just incase.. but if ever losing it in QB.. I wouldn't be bothered to go get it up. I'll rather call a ppu to HP :)
Edit: @Kurai. .. if u meen meleeing and hitting bodyparts, like head/feet/torso.. Melee can't knock ur feet, like for instance CS can.
@tiikeri: Indeed. That's one of the symptoms of the underlying problem not it's root cause.
I'm surprised this whole thing isn't common knowledge - the info has been around a good number of weeks now.
Have I missed an announcment telling us not to talk about it or something ?
Promethius
15-07-04, 03:08
@n3m: Wannabe has always been a melee tank, and will always be, no matter if it gets nerfed to hell :)
Edit: Guys on the same clan who made a melee tank after me are called wannabe wannabes :)
And still i can't see how 20 damage done on tank is SO much.
Like how much CS does damage to xrr capped tank when 2-3 of the shots hits?`
Whats the difference.. ppu apu tank cunt ... if no force then ur screwd.
ok well think of it in terms of this
melee: 20 + 20 + 20
HCtank: 80 + miss
melee: 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 +20
Hctank: 80 + 80
melee: *SHOCK*
HCtank: miss
melee: 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 20 +20 +20 +20 +20 +20
Did i miss anything?
-Prom
Atleast i haven't seen any posts where we would be told not to discuss about it.
tbh: when fighting on my tank, i have never thought about knocking my opponents feet, but on my apu....... its the first place i aim :)
Edit: yes, u missed one big point soulie...
Bout the shocker.. again i said earlier, i think it's gay, and i intend not to use it until someone else uses somekind of para.
and you didn't count the misses MC tank made.
++ why did the HC tank stop shooting after being shocked? Cuz so far the HC tank had made more damage...
Promethius
15-07-04, 03:15
Hint: Think about body hit zones and succesive hit dmg reduction that is a feature of other weapon types.
I still laugh very hard when i hear comments like this...its sucha simple matter and i think one of these days i'll spill the beans and prove the mass's wrong. But that would be too easy.
Melee's code is fine.
And for the 2385437th time plz come up with another excuse other than SPEC YOUR CHAR OMG U NIB. its getting old and if thats ur only reply to this thread then you've proven your own class to be overpowered.
Edit:
@tiikeri
- Look at this situation (for one thing not every melee tank is as kind as u and not shocking) AN HC tank and a melee tank are in some open feild. Both equal in resists and con etc. The tank already has a huge runspeed nerf if he plans on fighting. 2nd once shocked the tank is GLUED I mean mollasses, kr@zy glue feet 4 feet deep in the ground glued. The melee tank if has any skill only has to dash circles and such things around the HC and at the end fo the fight the melee tank would definetly half atleast half health or more HP remaining. (dont even make me laugh if both had shelters on).
Tiikeri we all kno ur a melee at heart and we respect that. But you have to face the music your class is overpowered atm. We aren't saying DIE MELEE's DIE MUAHAHA HERE COMES THE HAMMER. We just want to use one of those plastic squeaky hammers on it.
Come on you kno how easilly and how much fun youve had with your melee tanks recently. Hell i remember the hybrid days (still one of my fav times ever in NC) clearly overpowered, which is the reason i decided to go that class, knowing fullwell they needed to be nerfed and WOULD get nerfed. Either way you feel melee WILL be nerfed its only a matter of time, aslong as we come up with a good solution before KK does it wont get SLEDGEhammered. *glances at Loms, Hybrids*
-Prom
SPEC YOUR CHAR OMG U NIB.
Thats the way ahaahailikeit.. Thats the fact baby.. get ur con setup fixed.
theres nothing to bitch about on that. Spec or die
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 03:23
Thats the way ahaahailikeit.. Thats the fact baby.. get ur con setup fixed.
theres nothing to bitch about on that. Spec or die
We have stated time and time again that we do spec. Why dont you listen to that. You just dont want to loose your overpowered class.
Slaughter
Promethius
15-07-04, 03:24
Thats the way ahaahailikeit.. Thats the fact baby.. get ur con setup fixed.
theres nothing to bitch about on that. Spec or die
Thats just ignorant tbh.
Youve posted your thoughts unless you have something knew or constructive to add plz stop posting.
-Prom
Edit: For all those people who believe melee is overpowered plz vote 5 starz!!!
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 03:32
5 stars It is overpowered
LOL :) get some sense of humour dudes.
I agree, my comment was as useless, as ur "SPEC"-comment.
And the only time i felt overpowered was just right after the patch came when ppl hadn't specd that much poison yet and took 4 Shadows apus and one ppu down alone at one OP fight. And after that, i have noticed that ppl really spec poison. And still its so piss easy to see who has specd it and who hasn't.
No i dont feel overpowered atm. I'm actually quite satisfied that now i can even kill ppl, and ppl can kill me. i've taken dive because of one HC-tank, and i've been mowed by groups. But still i have managed to stay alive 10minutes when having 5+apus with ppus and couple tanks against me:) (yes i had ppu with me but anyways).
I would seriously see some melee tank whining about "nerf me"... who would do that? i have already agreed on that there should be damagemods to meleeweapons, and perhaps on the stack-thingy.. but that would kill mc tanks viability at PP1. Prolly because ppl intend to bring so many ppus with them, there is that one split second when the apu would not have the shelter on and HH running so that DG could find a way trough enemys defences.
- Wannabe
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 03:41
LOL :) get some sense of humour dudes.
I agree, my comment was as useless, as ur "SPEC"-comment.
And the only time i felt overpowered was just right after the patch came when ppl hadn't specd that much poison yet and took 4 Shadows apus and one ppu down alone at one OP fight. And after that, i have noticed that ppl really spec poison. And still its so piss easy to see who has specd it and who hasn't.
No i dont feel overpowered atm. I'm actually quite satisfied that now i can even kill ppl, and ppl can kill me. i've taken dive because of one HC-tank, and i've been mowed by groups. But still i have managed to stay alive 10minutes when having 5+apus with ppus and couple tanks against me:) (yes i had ppu with me but anyways).
I would seriously see some melee tank whining about "nerf me"... who would do that? i have already agreed on that there should be damagemods to meleeweapons, and perhaps on the stack-thingy.. but that would kill mc tanks viability at PP1. Prolly because ppl intend to bring so many ppus with them, there is that one split second when the apu would not have the shelter on and HH running so that DG could find a way trough enemys defences.
- Wannabe
HC tanks and APU's are in the same boat at zone lines. Either let poison beam and DEV still hurt you after you zone or make PoB do stacks.
Promethius
15-07-04, 03:45
Is it me or is there a broken record playing in this thread?
Listen carefully and you'll hear it....
spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......
This solution of yours for the melee over powered of speccing is WRONG. Now this is comming from an tank with CAPPED psn resist....now did u catch that? CAPPED 114, wait one more time CAPPED. Cuz i kno how to do the broken record exploit aswell....
-Prom
Shadow Dancer
15-07-04, 03:54
Edit: I don't know why monks have not complained yet try pummping a few PSI boosters and whatch how fast your stam goes and monks don't get alot of it.
Because our stamina only goes down when running and popping a booster, not when casting the spell.
So generally 1 stam booster is enough for a 1v1, sometimes not necassary at all.
Top of the line implies experimental bones.One dude posted about getting owned when he had 100 with haz 3 100+ means 100 or more I proved my point.
Dude did you even bother to read all of what I wrote or just decide to troll and flame?If you had bothered to read everything said I said that they are overpowered but most probably wont be when damage and TLs of other weapons are redone, so to spell it out to you after KK are currently changing all weapon tl and their damages to balance the game and when they are finished they should all be in balance, its just a matter of waiting for KK ro implement it which they are obviously trying to get through before the release of DoY, if you cant understand that I dont know how to dumb it down any further.
If TL based damage makes it in, then melee will have highest damage output i'm assuming. They are supposed to do 2nd highest damage. APU is first. But if HL stays 101, and DG stays 115...........
@slaugh: they should prolly make both.. beam and dev stacks stay after zoned, and stacks to PoB. I could go that road.
@prom: hey.. how about going crying to mommy already?
Well if u cap ur poison, then lets change record shall we?
It's called "Spec ur force"..
unbelieveble whining cause your not totally owning melee tanks with ur tank..
Melee was overpowered already before the last boost. When I started playing
my melee tank the first thing I noticed was the huge gap in potency between
the melee tank and any other chars I played. Then they got even better o_O
Logging on my melee tank almost feels like cheating. Earlier today I was
fighting 3-4 people in PP on and off, and it wasnt even hard, and this is me
not even playing good since I just came back yesterday after being gone for
months. One of the guys comments really got to me; "What can I say, theres
nothing we can do..." Its not as bad as fighting against the old monk duos
but its not far off.
And tiikeri tbh I dont see where you are comming from. It doesnt matter how
you spec, a melee tank will beat any other class if they have optimal setups
and the players are of equal skill. The only thing I used to have problem with
was defensive hybrids, sometimes. I guess that might still be the same.
If TL based damage makes it in, then melee will have highest damage output i'm assuming. They are supposed to do 2nd highest damage. APU is first. But if HL stays 101, and DG stays 115...........
Extremely doubtful that the HL will stay at psi 101, personally I think the highest apu non-barrel spell will be 110-112ish.If the main apu spell stayed at 101 then melee would need a big reduction and other weapons that are being redone will have to stay at around where they are now.
I dont get the crying that melee is overpowered now, odds are the next patch will be the tl reworking for all other classes and as for the PoB doing stacking damage I already agreed with that as I dont see how poison can do instant damage anyway and a degree of realism is always welcome.
Shadow Dancer
15-07-04, 04:05
Extremely doubtful that the HL will stay at psi 101, personally I think the highest apu non-barrel spell will be 110-112ish.If the main apu spell stayed at 101 then melee would need a big reduction and other weapons that are being redone will have to stay at around where they are now.
I hope to god HL doesn't go any higher. Then we'll end up doing less damage because it'll be too hard to cap.
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 04:05
Extremely doubtful that the HL will stay at psi 101, personally I think the highest apu non-barrel spell will be 110-112ish.If the main apu spell stayed at 101 then melee would need a big reduction and other weapons that are being redone will have to stay at around where they are now.
I dont get the crying that melee is overpowered now, odds are the next patch will be the tl reworking for all other classes and as for the PoB doing stacking damage I already agreed with that as I dont see how poison can do instant damage anyway and a degree of realism is always welcome.
Next patch when will that be? It's been on the TS for awhile now. And now the TS is offline untill further notice. So i dont see it coming to the retail servers anytime soon. And the other weapon TL's have not made it to TS that i know of. I honestly dont see it coming anytime soon. Maybe with DOY but who knows.
edit
I hope to god HL doesn't go any higher. Then we'll end up doing less damage because it'll be too hard to cap.
If they did raise the TL of HL they would have to do a few other things also to balance it out. It would not be to hard either really. I can see 4 options really.
1) Remove or at least lower MST requirments
2) Let PSU effect your PSI pool again.
3) PSI eye and or backbone.
4) Or another IMP for monks sorta like the MOVE ON. Either epic or rare epic would be nice. And i'm not talking about the glove.
If one of those are not put ingame at the same time. The only way you will cap a TL 110 or 112 HL (or just a beam spell) is to have a PSI pool of around 220 or so. Either that or you will have to have a PSI 3 to get close to capping it. Currently a TL 112 spell would be around this for REQ APU 147 MST 89 PSI 112 that is going of REQ for APU's which is slightly off from PPU's.
Slaughter
I hope to god HL doesn't go any higher. Then we'll end up doing less damage because it'll be too hard to cap.
When the DG, PoB were raised the amount needed to cap didnt increase much if at all until they patched in the change in capping of melee.
Next patch when will that be? It's been on the TS for awhile now. And now the TS is offline untill further notice. So i dont see it coming to the retail servers anytime soon. And the other weapon TL's have not made it to TS that i know of. I honestly dont see it coming anytime soon. Maybe with DOY but who knows.
Anyway you look at it melee damage cant be changed until the next patch, but the TL changes had been on the test server for a while before it was taken offline so they may of tested the changes enough to implement them, and theres no way that they can leave the changes until DoY as the TL changes are aimed at balancing the game before DoY hits the shelves.
slaughteruall
15-07-04, 04:18
Anyway you look at it melee damage cant be changed until the next patch, but the TL changes had been on the test server for a while before it was taken offline so they may of tested the changes enough to implement them, and theres no way that they can leave the changes until DoY as the TL changes are aimed at balancing the game before DoY hits the shelves.
I have not seen any patch notes about the TL reworking of other weapons being on the test server. And i just glanced over patch 204/205/206 there not there.
Slaughter
I have not seen any patch notes about the TL reworking of other weapons being on the test server. And i just glanced over patch 204/205/206 there not there.
Must of just read what lupus said on the subject then sorry.
melee was good before the patch , now its overpowered. just lower a bit the damage, and it should be perfect.
Is it me or is there a broken record playing in this thread?
Listen carefully and you'll hear it....
spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......spec you con.....spec your con........spec your con..........spec your con........spec your con........spec your con.......
This solution of yours for the melee over powered of speccing is WRONG. Now this is comming from an tank with CAPPED psn resist....now did u catch that? CAPPED 114, wait one more time CAPPED. Cuz i kno how to do the broken record exploit aswell....
-Prom
Melee is overpowered right now because KK didn't finish balancing all the other weapons yet. Instead of making MC so powerful without anyone else, they should have balanced every class at one time. However, a NERF is not in order as that would mean every other class gets ultimately nerfed when they DO eventually balance everything.
Secondly, 114 POR in con is NOT capped poison. Capped poison would be 200 overall armor, which is impossible to get for any class. I know I'm just slicing hairs here, but do NOT say you have capped poison.
Melee now a days does too much dmg for the majority of its weapons. Theres a erason why low lvl melee users can take down High lvl other chars. Though the biggest part of melee that needs to be nerfed is the PoB. Not talking a sledgehammer nerf that renders it useless.
I suggest that PoB stacks its poison and each stack lasts longer than a dev stack and shorter than a poison beam. The actually dmg on it is fine, its just the poison is instant.
I would also like to see like a 5-10% nerf of the dmg on ALL non rare melee weapons.
Anyone else have any other suggests?
-PromI'd rather see the dmg back to pre patch (not the dmg type change) and that "hits not registering" bug fixed. That would be sweet.
As it is now, i can beat most melee tanks on my pistol spy. You just need to know what youre doing and the melee tank is dead. Still, melee dmg is damn evil and especially in close combat melee tanks own everything and everyone.
melee was good before the patch , now its overpowered. just lower a bit the damage, and it should be perfect.
Really is that simple. I had a MC tank before patch and i can't still figure out why in gods name they would require a boost. I had a good possibility to kill any opponent, even if PEs were tough sometimes.
Any MC tank could stand in front of a Chaser or Persec and kill it without taking cover, back then . I cant imagine what its like now.
And how would you as a tank know it is overpowered?
Shouldnt melee do more dmg then our cannons? (im a H-C tank btw)
I mean at melee range, Melee should do a little more dmg then cannons, or atleast in a dmg over time ratio. since cannons should be able to get a bit more range. There has to be some advantage to having to fight dont matter what at close range.
But if you have that much poision, did you do it by LOMing electro resist or xray resist just to test this? od is that in your con setup along with a healthy amount of other resists? if it is, then your HP has to be hurting a bit from all that poision. You can never spec all the resists well and get good HP, they kinda make it so u pick your weeakness and hope for the best in a fight :P
-Crono
[EDIT]
Whow whow, gohei, i dont think any tank can stand infront of a chaser or perci, i have really good Fire resist, really good HP and full inq 4, and by the time 2-3 clips of a CS or Speed gat are through i need to take cover before the poision stacks kill me :P
I have and always will be speced for fire hunting too, its my favorite high lvl solo hunting.
-Crono
bla bla bla NO other class can cap their weapons without extreme gimpage. A tank needs to fuck over his transport and resist force (well except melee tanks, but thats another issue), a spy has to completely get rid of any defense he might have, a PE cant really cap any of the high end weapons. So dont tell me the class with the BY FAR most powerful weapon wants more. Not that the HL reqs will be changed anyway, but if, APUs would have to choose. Sounds like a plan to me. kthxbye
Whow whow, gohei, i dont think any tank can stand infront of a chaser or perci, i have really good Fire resist, really good HP and full inq 4, and by the time 2-3 clips of a CS or Speed gat are through i need to take cover before the poision stacks kill me :P
I have and always will be speced for fire hunting too, its my favorite high lvl solo hunting.
-Crono
I had only 70 fire resist and allmost full INQ. And i was talking about MC tanks, using heal, sanct and medipacks helps a lot. I for one didnt have any problems taking them down without taking cover, and i know many other tanks who could too.
There has to be some advantage to having to fight dont matter what at close range.No aiming required. Isnt that advantage enough?
dont say kthxbye, it compleatly detracts from any valid points you could of said before it :P
But tanks are only weapons and fighting, so thats not the best defence.
But it may need a nerf in some form, im not saying that, im just saying that peoples arguements for it are mostly flawed or biast. Many tanks that say it needs nerfing are H-C tanks that dont want to be not as strong in melee range.
-Crono
[EDIT]
I had only 70 fire resist and allmost full INQ. And i was talking about MC tanks, using heal, sanct and medipacks helps a lot. I for one didnt have any problems taking them down without taking cover, and i know many other tanks who could too.
Yea, but M-C should have no difference there. Even with medpacks, thats insane.
Oh and next time make a fair poll and add "There are some issues about melee ill post about it".
Thank you.
[ edited ]One thing they can do is add a redicle and make it DoT.
[ edited ] One thing they can do is add a redicle and make it DoT.
Awsome job on that one man, really convincing :P
Rectangles for Monks would be nice too :D
-Crono
THIS IS GoD
15-07-04, 07:53
As I was once told recently by Lupus it's not that Melee is over powered it's the fact that it does do body area dmg like ballistics weapons do i.e. PoB to the head does same dmg as to the legs chest area's but heavy pistol or rifles do body area dmg and the body area thing is screwed up so when you lose everything in a certain area when you continue to hit it, it does less dmg.
So always going for the head with a CS wouldnt do you as much good as goinf from legs to head to chest or any order you'd rather use cuz once the dmg in each area is gone if you continue to hit that area you continually lose amount of dmg you do.
So pls no flame about my post as this was told directly to me by Lupus. Just thought you all might like to know that.
GoD36 * Melee Tank
Rapture *** APU
TaNk36 ** Heavy Tank
Lickalotapus *** PPU
Quick Draw McGraw ** Pistol PE
Rumplestiltskin ** Pistol Constructor TL 225 Cst Boost 1
PRINCE ** Low Tech Rifle PE
*Silent Hunter* *** Pure Rifle Combat Spy
[QUOTE=Crono]dont say kthxbye, it compleatly detracts from any valid points you could of said before it :P
But tanks are only weapons and fighting, so thats not the best defence.
But it may need a nerf in some form, im not saying that, im just saying that peoples arguements for it are mostly flawed or biast. Many tanks that say it needs nerfing are H-C tanks that dont want to be not as strong in melee range.
-Crono
[EDIT]
i say it needs nerfing cause i play both types and see it from both sides , those who thinks it doesnt need to be nerfed are melee tank's and hey maybe they enjoy for once been able to kill something because the fact that nearly all tanks are melee now says something doesn't it. Its the bad pvp flavour of the month . If you were melee before the patch excuse what i just said more power to you but alot the guys that used to be melee i know are now hc .
I dont know if I would call it overpowered but maby some tweaking would do nice, if not because its nessecary but atleast then ppl will shut the fuck up.
I dont know whats wrong with your or my ppu. I dont think I have a BADASS con setup but a pob do maby 2 dmg so really I dont see a problem whatsoever there. with haz3 and a heavy poison its not that bad. I dont play alot of other classes so cant coment on how fast other classes die but I dont think its as fast as most ppl want to make it sound in here..
The other class I play is a apu some times AND *drumroll* range can really be your allie vs a melee tank, 2 hl's and the rest fireapok and watch him crumbel like a paper in fire. But on the other hand if I got corenered somewhere tight I will die, but that is just the way things work.
There are offcourse other things to take into account. Like a heavy tank cant run at all with a gun out and a melee freezer on them and so on. So I can agree to the dissapearance of anything glue. But let ppu's and melee's have their glue vs mobs.
Leveling both a melee tank and a psi monk atm, I can only say this:
Melee overpowered? Nah, you have to get up close and personal with your target in either PvP or PvM so you pretty much soak all the damage the mob is doing, no hiding or using the terrain for melee tanks, swords guzzle truckloads of STA upto the point that I don't want to use them at all, stuff moving away from you is hard to damage. (rather do a loop and try to get in front... :) ) Melee has enough drawbacks as it has benefits.
If the moving away no damage bug is fixed the damage could be toned down SLIGHTLY (no sledgehammer plz) but the one thing getting on my nerves is the cap.
Capping any melee weapon is still piss easy. Leveling my PSI monkey (either in APU/Hybrid/PPU weapon caps seem unreachable.
So, providing anything needs to be changed, they most obvious change would be; make it harder to cap melee weapons. Although this will nerf hybrid tanks. Maybe there is a way without nerfing hybrids that I'm not seeing, because i'm opposed to any kind of nerf that makes a character obsolete.
Melee tanks are easier to play. That's the only good thing I can see with them, and yes i own one on Saturn. It's fun, to be honest, I like running around with high runspeed, carving up warbies before running away screaming as the lasers burn into my flesh. I like Melee more than cannons, but not for damage.
People who say "hold the mouse button down and hack away at eveything". Isn't that kinda similar to an APU? No aiming, just blast blast blast blast.
People who say melee is overpowered, have you tried making the weapons up without using a crud-load of money from another account? Ok ammo isn't a problem, but weapon-8 parts are commonly needed.
When the other weapon systems are upgraded to their TLs, then no-one will be complaining. until then, why bother? All that will happen, is DOY will get delayed AGAIN, because they feel the need to fix the unbroken, to keep the whiners happy.
(sorry if there are any valid points and not whines, but 8 pages? I got to go out in a bit and I can't read 8 pages on melee, I don't like it *that* much! ;P)
*funny thread*
Yeah nerf meelzoor! It is OVAPOWEREH!
I dont play my melee on pluto anymore so i can just pop into bandwagon and scream along with you guys!
Weeeee!
NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF!!!
Great poll btw!
Ok, enough fun
This isnt very funny actually, pathetic rather. Many people have stated countless of times what is wrong with melee and what could be the solution for it, yet still everyone whine and moan and post b/s like the "my fully capped ppu cannot outheal pob dmg onoz" - last time i was in pluto, capped ppu outhealed pob dmg easily only with holy heal and holy def, no need for other spells.
Last time i was fighting on pluto with my melee, HC tanks were tearing my to shreds or just braking my legs in two shots. PEs were running away from me and i couldnt do a shiit to them, PE PE killed me before i've managed to get him to 1/2 health. Terminator PE is even worse. It's all about the skills really. People just dont know how to fight melee.
But i agree, there is one very important thing which makes melee so much overpowered - shockers. And as far as i can see everyone uses shockers nowadays. Shockers make the fight impossible as every other para spamming.
So, like many others said:
* remove shockers from the game, or nerf/weaken them pretty much.
Another thing is PoB - poison dmg should be DOT, because that is the way how poison works. Still, there is something wrong with DoT dmg, as it seems that resists are much more effective against DoT dmg than the direct one). But maybe this could help people to realize that they should spec some points into poison...
Anyways, i will soon start to pvp with my Poison Beam Apu on Saturn to show you how much overpowered it is...
Melee tanks are easier to play. That's the only good thing I can see with them, and yes i own one on Saturn. It's fun, to be honest, I like running around with high runspeed, carving up warbies before running away screaming as the lasers burn into my flesh. I like Melee more than cannons, but not for damage.
People who say melee is overpowered, have you tried making the weapons up without using a crud-load of money from another account? Ok ammo isn't a problem, but weapon-8 parts are commonly needed.
My old melee tank could take on 3 or 4 warbies at a time by just orientating so that one of them gets in front of 1 or 2 of the others and by having a 498% or so heal, only a 2 slot so I dont cap damage and that was the heal I have on my HC tank with the same damage until I dropped it in a belt in MC5.
All weapons are like that now to stop people from making shit loads of money from making huge batches of non-rare weapons.Why they decided to do that when most clans have over 100mil in their bank account I dont know.
Promethius
15-07-04, 16:40
And how would you as a tank know it is overpowered?
Shouldnt melee do more dmg then our cannons? (im a H-C tank btw)
I mean at melee range, Melee should do a little more dmg then cannons, or atleast in a dmg over time ratio. since cannons should be able to get a bit more range. There has to be some advantage to having to fight dont matter what at close range.
But if you have that much poision, did you do it by LOMing electro resist or xray resist just to test this? od is that in your con setup along with a healthy amount of other resists? if it is, then your HP has to be hurting a bit from all that poision. You can never spec all the resists well and get good HP, they kinda make it so u pick your weeakness and hope for the best in a fight :P
-Crono
Generally i would agree that melee should do more dmg than hc but the fact is 90% of fighting is this game is Up close, so thats pretty weak to say Our class can only fight up close. I may not have the armor cap but wat i meant was i cap psn in my CON.(which IS 114). For aslong as i've been playing surely i wouldn't render myself weak against xray/ energy/ fire. My con setup is fine and If you think thats BS I would be more than happy to log ym tank on saturn and show you.
The biggest problem with melee IMHO is its dmg outputs on sheltered runners. Not because EVERYONE's con is shit, but due to the fact poison is not affected by shelters. Rather than nerfing ALL poison by making shelters stop it, but put a DoT on the melee weapons with poison dmg.
If there was a DoT on melee weapons I would see melees dmg output deemed balance and I would be silent on this matter.
-Prom
You can't reduce meelee range with the current netcode/engine. Your opponent is usually not where you see him, especially if both players are running fast. If the meelee range was small, the server would say: "Opponent out of range, not hit." although he seems to be in front of you.
You can't reduce meelee range with the current netcode/engine. Your opponent is usually not where you see him, especially if both players are running fast. If the meelee range was small, the server would say: "Opponent out of range, not hit." although he seems to be in front of you.
aye think they tried that a while ago and that was the results
My old melee tank could take on 3 or 4 warbies at a time by just orientating so that one of them gets in front of 1 or 2 of the others and by having a 498% or so heal, only a 2 slot so I dont cap damage and that was the heal I have on my HC tank with the same damage until I dropped it in a belt in MC5.
All weapons are like that now to stop people from making shit loads of money from making huge batches of non-rare weapons.Why they decided to do that when most clans have over 100mil in their bank account I dont know.
yeah, but this is the view of a person who doesn't have sh*t loads of money. The most I have, is on Fixer, which is just ove 3 million. It's also the view of a person who doesn't power-level much. Any character, power leveled and with the best-o-da-best items will be powerful. Even spies. I think it's wrong to nerf a sub-class right now, just because the odd few people have managed to get their builds right.
Besides, I go into PP and what do I see? hardcore flaming people literally. No melee tanks, just a flamer burning the crud out of anyone who isn't running or punching guards. I've only seen 2 melee tanks in my times on Saturn and Uranus, and one was an NCAT who rare-baseball-batted my character while she was in synch, the other was in PP, before he got owned/pwnd/whatever, by a spy. And that was with a rare laser sword, high end armour etc.
aye think they tried that a while ago and that was the results
I still have nightmares sometimes.
yeah, but this is the view of a person who doesn't have sh*t loads of money. The most I have, is on Fixer, which is just ove 3 million. It's also the view of a person who doesn't power-level much. Any character, power leveled and with the best-o-da-best items will be powerful. Even spies. I think it's wrong to nerf a sub-class right now, just because the odd few people have managed to get their builds right.
Besides, I go into PP and what do I see? hardcore flaming people literally. No melee tanks, just a flamer burning the crud out of anyone who isn't running or punching guards. I've only seen 2 melee tanks in my times on Saturn and Uranus, and one was an NCAT who rare-baseball-batted my character while she was in synch, the other was in PP, before he got owned/pwnd/whatever, by a spy. And that was with a rare laser sword, high end armour etc.
If youve only ever seen two melee tanks fighting it would seem that you
might not be the best person to comment on melee balance?
I have and are playing melee tank extensively in OP wars, skirmishes and
duels and they are overpowered across the board - regardless if the person
Im fighting has managed to spec his con properly or not. No thanks I dont
want a win button.
Promethius
15-07-04, 20:02
Besides, I go into PP and what do I see? hardcore flaming people literally. No melee tanks, just a flamer burning the crud out of anyone who isn't running or punching guards. I've only seen 2 melee tanks in my times on Saturn and Uranus, and one was an NCAT who rare-baseball-batted my character while she was in synch, the other was in PP, before he got owned/pwnd/whatever, by a spy. And that was with a rare laser sword, high end armour etc.
That means you dont get out much. As i was lvling my newn char i saw atleast 10 newb melee tanks lvling in aggys ( not at once but through an hour) then after lvling in chaos caves for a bit i've come across another 5 or so melee tanks lvling. So there around you jsut gotta look.
-Prom
Technically, melee is overpowered. The damage boost seems to be intended to fix the range issue when the target is moving - and fails completely. The result is melee is overpowered when the target doesn't take advantage of the range issue, and underpowered when the target does. Any reduction in melee damage should really come at the same time as a fix for the range problem.
Technically, melee is overpowered. The damage boost seems to be intended to fix the range issue when the target is moving - and fails completely. The result is melee is overpowered when the target doesn't take advantage of the range issue, and underpowered when the target does. Any reduction in melee damage should really come at the same time as a fix for the range problem.Yah thats pretty much my conclusion too. If I fight melee tanks in an open area then they might as well start running cause they will die. But if I fight a melee tank in like Pepper Park 1 where I cant take advantage of the range, well then good night. Fighting melee tanks in PP1 is like suicide. It seems like itd be tuff to balance without going one way or the other.
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