FPS Difference between good pc and bad pc [Archive]

winnoc

13-07-04, 10:29

Ok, since i'm doing some major work on my main rig.
which will end up being :

Abit NF7-S (was ECSK7S5A)
mobile 2500+@2500mhz (was running at 2050mhz)
512 PC3200 (was 2*256 SD133)
Geforce 5900 flashed to 5950ultra 475/900

I had to play on this last light:

Asus P2B-F
PII 350@405 i believe
128mb SD133
Geforce2mx400
No sound

Jeezes!!!!!!!!!
I was in an op war at emmerson and i got 6-7fps. All i could do was run around trying to figure out where my target teleported to.
So for all you lads out there with old computers, my heart goes out to you :-)
Neocron isn't all about skill, it's also about your computer hardware.

I've been running some tests on cpu mhz and video card etc... My conclusion is that neocron fps is based 50% on cpu power, 25% on video card and the remaining 25% on memory and internet speed.

YoDa-UK

13-07-04, 10:42

for sure, all online games have been about computer power and line speed.

I used to play this game with an old P3 650mhz, 128mb RAM and a 32mb card, it was a problem lol

Now though i got a AMD 1900+ "1.6ghz" 1gig RAM, 128mb card and 512k adsl, i dont have any trouble at all with performance except Sieger outpost looking towards the GR, but everyone gets that.

Judge

13-07-04, 10:48

Can't wait until i get my AMD 64 with 1gig of RAM. :D

NC is going to pwn... especially with the DX9 changes.

n3m

13-07-04, 10:55

Don't think anyone had high FPS last night. Usually I get 20+ fps with an avg of 40. but last night I was lucky to hit teh 20, aiming was a bit more difficult then I was used to but it was doable. I grew up with shitty pcs, and games that barely ran on them. I tried lowering everything to 0 last night, but that didn't help anything :\

SilentEye

13-07-04, 12:03

I'm playing with an

2400MHZ
786MB RAM
ATI 9200XT (Being replaced by a X800 biznatch!)

Original monk

13-07-04, 12:23

i remember when i always used to die against the old hybrids (me being a hybrid also) ... them guys always whining: get some skills, get some skills ...

but pvping with 1 to 3 fps isnt all that :/

then i made myself a new computer ... and tadaaa: suddenly i had skills :P

(yust because my opponents didnt jump from 25 meters to the left to 25 meters to the right every 2 seconds :P )

low fps isnt that bad (10 to 20) but 1 to 3 fps hurts yes :)

i know how people with these systems feel, i played full beta4 on my laptop with 4 mb onboard videomemory :) (and still was able to kill peeple :P -even nathan profit-)

:D

Xylaz

13-07-04, 12:50

I've been running some tests on cpu mhz and video card etc... My conclusion is that neocron fps is based 50% on cpu power, 25% on video card and the remaining 25% on memory and internet speed.

Wrong

From my calculations it seems that neocron fps is based 90% on the cpu power, 8% on the memory, 2% on luck.

Upgrading my CPU from celeron 1.8 to p4 2.8 got me a 50+ fps boost in NC.

- Before (same systems spec, just celeron 1.8 cpu) : average 15-20 fps, 10-15 fps in a fight, 0-2 fps in an op war
- After (samy system spec but P4 2.8): average 70-80 fps, 60 fps in combat, 40-50 fps in op wars.

winnoc

13-07-04, 13:24

And while i'm at it, another tip for people upgrading their windows cp computers:

You don't need to reinstall XP when changing motherboards.

You can extract some sys files from I386 drivers.cab and copy them to your drivers folder in system32, then run a regfile in append, and voila, next time you hook that drive to your new mobo you're 80% sure to be able to boot right into the xp with the new mobo. I've done this on several systems allready and only one of em wouldn't do it.

link:

http://www.jsiinc.com/SUBJ/tip4900/rh4948.htm

slaughteruall

13-07-04, 13:25

NC does rely on CPU power a hell of a lot more then GPU. I do notice a little differance if i dont over clock my GPU but still have my CPU over clocked.

Honestly if i was going to put out numbers i would say this.
CPU -- at least 70 to 80
GPU -- 5 to 10 max
memory -- 10 or so

Just numbers i pulled out of my ass. But with my computer specs it's what i've noticed.

AMD XP 1700 @ 2.346
NF7-S
1 GIG mushkin lvl 2 black @ 204(408) FSB
TYAN 9800 PRO

[TgR]KILLER

13-07-04, 13:46

amd 2200+ running @ 2154 mhz
512 pc 2100 ( soon to be 512 pc 3200 )
geforce TI 4200 64 mb ( soon to be a geforce 5 or a geforce 6 series card )

not getting to bad fps here btw.. never sink real low never gets unplayable.. always have fog turned off / max only sometimes at like fight night with 50 people around jerico i gotta turn fog on to do something usefull.

btw @ slaughter.. gotta be some sick ass cpu cooling you got there.. water ? cause you overcloaked your cpu like 1000 mhz lol..

winnoc

13-07-04, 13:56

There's two "magic" cpu's in the world.

The 1700 "b" which overclocks like no tomorrow.
And the 2400,2500,2600 mobile bartons which have standard unlocked multipliers and run real good at low voltages.

Dazist

13-07-04, 13:58

fps ~= skills

At least in my case. Running p3 800 Mhz + gf2 ti and in op warfare (+20 people) its almost impossible to kill people with non monk weapons. I suggested a long time ago a button to switch quickly between full and limited view distance (hunting mode and pvp mode). When hunting warbots or something similar you naturally need to see far away but when someone is beating you with a glowing stick or shooting with big green bolts right next to you, view distance ain't that important. This is where good fps is needed and reducing view distance would increase it alot. From my experience only view distance and foliage (which I keep off always) have major effect on fps. This small addition would reduce the 'skill' gap between players lowend and highend computers.

Here's an example I tried with some tank at some op once. My hctank was str capped with cs and he had tpc (around 40/50). First we warmed up a bit to get hang of dueling. I turned my view distance to maximum and we started dueling. I lost all rounds horribly with tpc tank having over 75% over hp left each round. Then to make things even I turned view distance to minimum and voila. I beat the tpc tank hands down by having over 75% of my hp left.

winnoc

13-07-04, 14:02

Yeah, that's why i want to upgrade.
So next time people tell you "get some skillz" you know they actually mean, "run off to a computer store and buy some skills".

Now, if i get my rig up and i still keep getting my ass kicked all over the place...... i'll make pure tradeskillers for the rest of my life lol.

slaughteruall

13-07-04, 15:58

@[TGR]killer i'm actually on air :) 3 80 mm blowing in and 2 blowing out. I have a TT smart fan 2 that i need to install still for my CPU cooler just have a normal smart fan ATM on my SLK 800. It's a 1700 "b" 0312 XPMW running a little hotter then i like it being it's summer and all which is why i bought the smart fan 2. ATM it's @47c winter it was @35c. I hope to knock it back down to around 40c or so with the new fan. It's not bad for a 50$ chip huh.

I've thought about going to water cooling or even phase change. I just hating taking a computer part that is running so well right now.

I'm having some net issues at home right now. So i'm backing up all my data to my external and to DVD's so i can reformat it. But compressing 90 gig's of movies is taking a while. Also got a new WI-FI card that should be here today. I keep losing my signal every 20 to 30 seconds. Which is odd to say the least.

Slaughter

187

13-07-04, 16:19

slaughteruall

13-07-04, 16:35

You are a bit late with this thread, with BDOY almost here, its been mentioned yonks ago about NC is Processor dominant.

Why are going with a mobile cpu? Other than the fact its lower voltage and has o/c potential, but 2ghz aint that fast by todays standards anyway. But like I said, the new DBOY engine with address this.

But yes, FPS makes a huge difference now!

Are you crazy? A AMD clock cycle is vastly different from a INTEL clock cycle. AMD CPU's do more work per clock then INTEL CPU's. If i remember right i think it was 1.47:1. So by that theory a AMD 2.5 gig is about equal to a INTEL 3.675 chip.

Yes a mobile has a lower voltage by default but it has a very high O/C potential. There are people taking 1.8 gig mobile's up to 2.6 and 2.7 gig's. A higher clock speed is not always better depends on the chip/maker.

Link below is a O/C'd FX-53 @ 2.9 gig VS a O/C'd P4EE 3.2 @ 4 gig's. On a non 64 bit OS. I want to see what these things can do on that.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040419/cpu-scaling-13.html

From the conclusion.

The Athlon64 FX's integrated memory controller repeatedly showed off its strengths. Whenever users want to play 3D games (Comanche, Serious Sam, Splinter Cell, Unreal Tournament 2003, Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, and X2), the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition is only runner-up. Also, the FX holds a sizeable lead when it comes to data compression with WinRAR, compilation of a C++ project with Visual Studio.net and Mathematica. Even during testing at high clock rates, these strengths were quite obvious.

On the other hand, we should also point out the advantages of the Pentium 4 EE. Even though it cannot keep pace with the measured memory performance of the FX, there are many applications that benefit from a large cache, the high clock rate, and, especially, from Hyper Threading: 3D Studio Max, Cinema 4D, Cool Edit Pro, XMPEG with DivX, MainConcept MPEG Encoder, TMPGEnc, SYSmark 2004 and Microsoft's Movie Maker.

Slaughter

winnoc

13-07-04, 16:39

The mobile chip is fully unlocked, so you can change fsb AND multiplier on the chip, so you can go 228*10 or 200*12.5 etc.....
Also they are the handpicked best performing chips from the line, running fast at low voltages and low temps. You can buy them for $90 in the states, around €110 in belgium.
They get standard overclocks of around 2500mhz. So basically you get a 3200+ for almost a third of the price. And to be honest, nobody should buy the high level non-64 bit cpu's now. Better to wait a year for prices to drop on the 64 bit stuff.

And as for the aircooled overclocking cooling:

I installed a second psu in my case which only had ventialtion holes and one cpu cooler fan. My CPU would get to 56°C under load. I installed a 120mm one the sidepannel blowing air on my cpu cooler, northbridge and videocard. And two 80mm's sucking air out the back and i now get 49°C under load.
So extra fans DO help a lot.

alig

13-07-04, 16:44

Dribble Joy

13-07-04, 17:04

I have to disagree with you about the 25% graphics card. More like 1 - 5% gfx card.

My fps have gone up a tiny ammount from upgrading to an X800pro (oc'ed 520/500) from a GF4ti4600.
Indeed, I upgraded from a 32Mb radeon rage128 to a 9500pro, and saw very little real performance improvement.

|R@zor|

13-07-04, 17:22

slaughteruall

13-07-04, 17:24

i've had my new PC for a few weeks now, AMD Athlon 3200+ 512MB ram and ATI 9600XT 256mb graphics card and i've seen a huge difference in frame rate, around 90 in plaza 2 compared to around 20 with the old machine, drops to around 55-60 in a busy opfight.

Also the SATA disk makes a huge difference in the zoning speed.

i have not noticed a zoning speed increase really. Well if i zone then yes mostly i just crash lately. i have 2 WD 120 gig 8mb cache drives in a raid 0 on sata cables (with adapters).

Slaughter

winnoc

14-07-04, 08:36

I think the zoning speed increase is more related to his faster computer than the fact that he now has sata disks.

I have the same hd in my "new" com and my old. The old one takes forever to zone.

Xylaz

14-07-04, 08:48

I think the zoning speed increase is more related to his faster computer than the fact that he now has sata disks.

I have the same hd in my "new" com and my old. The old one takes forever to zone.

again YES, it all seem to depends heavily on CPU, really, like 99% of the whole NC performance.

Past year i've been continuosly upgrading my comp, changing the gf card didnt help in anything, adding more ram neither (well, *maybe* a little less crashes, but it's hard to say really, seetting the nc client priority was the best way), new fast HDD - nothing either, new soundcard - again nothing, and finally, new CPU (p4@2.8) - EVERYTHING:
* +50 or more fps in every single place (on my former cpu - celeron 1.8 - with force fog on i could hardly reach 25 fps in an empty environment - now with all details and force fog off, i have 70+ fps in average, 40+ in op wars (0-2 fps before)
* less crashes (comparing: at least 1 crash every five mins before to around 3-4 crashes in an hour)
* less syncs (before: at least 1-2 sync every time i logged in, now they are gone basically)
* more precise runspeed (i'm slower now on my screen, but people stopped beeing teleporting and warping all around, their speed seems comparable to mine now - it's great help with a melee as well)

All of those are caused solely by cpu upgrade (same motherboard as before) - celeron@1.8 to p4@2.8

Xadhoom

14-07-04, 09:03

Athlon 64 3000+
Radeon 9800
1 gig Kingston Ram 400 mhz

Frames 190 (highest in the city) - 20+/30+ in op fight

Terayon

14-07-04, 09:09

want to point out onboard sound slows nc don 5-10 fps aswell. since ive been using a new soundblaster from my old mobo sound ive been getting way better fps. be sure to get one.

also ya i used to play on my duron running at 1333 and wince i upgraded to my 2400+ (i have yet to overclock) ive been doing 10000x better in pvp. its amazing realy how much frames can give. its not even so much frames as mouselag.

my rcomp? need new vid card but

2400+ (40c)
512 333 running at 266 for now
radeon 9600
maxtor 120 gig 8mb catch
winxp

and i get a steady 15-35 frames in op wars

winnoc

14-07-04, 09:22

Well, i was messing around all night with my new rig, and i got to the max of
177*12.5 in overclocking.
Which is 2213 mhz. and that at 35.5°C idle.

I Want to go higher but i'll have to mess around more tonight.
Still have to reinstall Windows(again) and all the other software, as the mergeedi registry trick didn't do it to transfer the disk to a new mobo.

So maybe tonight i'll see you guys online again, with good fps :-)

winnoc

28-07-04, 11:22

Update:

NF7-S V2 Tictac D10B2 bios
mobile 2500@2535mhz (220*11.5 idle 40.5°C load 51.5°C)
Thermalright SP-97 wit 92mm papst fan
512mb PC3200 11-3-3-3
Leadtek 5900XT flashed to 5950ultra (475/850) AA and AF at max

So, i got the overclocking done.
I now have a sucky 12000 points in 3dmark2001 !
Bandwith on memory scores pretty high according to sisoft, and the cpu ranks out there with the biggest on the list.

SO HOW COME I GET THE SAME FPS (plaza2 8-20) AS MY OLD PII450 RIG ??????

I was on last night and i got the exact same fps on this megarig as on my old PII450 with geforce2MX400 and 256 ram.

Anyone got some pointers? Got the 6.14 drivers for geforce i think. Vsync is off, all the rest maxed. Agp speed at 8X

tiikeri

28-07-04, 11:47

I have
2,08Ghz barton (trying to overclock it in fewdays)
Epox 8KRAi
1ghz 400mhz CL2,5
GF4 Ti4400 (in month i'm gonna buy GF6800 U ;) )
2x 160g DMA133 hds
and 512/512 DSL with average ping of 70-90

i'm getting around 20 FPS in big fights. ~90 in p2 when not growded.
and most of the time i sync faster than most of the ppl.

evs

28-07-04, 14:05

CPU helps nc - FACT.

The one thing that everyone misses is the atrocious netcode for NC.

As an experiment for some of you - get 2 nc's running side by side on the same connection (on 2 different pc's)

move player 1 and watch the movement on player 2's screen

most of the movement animation is removed, (for example rapid crouching / jumping / side to side movements)

and the model pretty much stays still

now try and run somewhere - like a large zone with hills and stuff is best.
you'll watch on screen 1 - smooth movement and the player moves from a to b

on screen 2 - the runner often stops, moves at different speeds and suddenly warps to where they are meant to be.
And often where the runner has stopped on pc1, isnt where the runner is seen to be on pc2.

luckily this isnt *too* much of a problem as the game is client side based for combat / damage - and not server based.

so now if you test combat:
pc2 = it from a 10 fps laggy pc
pc1 = a 200 fps uber low ping pc

pc1 - the player is running rings around the other player with his leet pc, speeding all over the shop - running, jumping, ducking firing....

on pc2 the players hardly moving, all the excessive animations are cut and its a case of point and click several times.

pc1 player realises they have been hit several times and runs for cover and hides behind a wall

pc2 sees that pc1 runner still their screen and just keeps clicking, as on their screen - pc1 runner hasnt even moved towards the wall yet

pc1 player suddenly drops dead behind the wall

pc1 runner thinks 'my god he was rubbish he hardly moved'

pc2 players sat around think 'WTF'

and this is the curse that all low ping decent pc players have vs low fps laggy players on a CLIENTSIDE heavy game.

Personally - i just live with it, i certainly dont view NC PvP skill as translatable into any FPS game pretty much ever anyway - so i just enjoy the fireworks and run around like a monkey :D

Morpheous

28-07-04, 14:13

Can't wait until i get my AMD 64 with 1gig of RAM. :D

NC is going to pwn... especially with the DX9 changes. AMD?
Sorry, but i've seen the benchmarks- AMD 64 is actually slower than a P4 Extreme Edition. :D

Imho my reccomendation for min specs (Doing OP wars with decent FPS minimum :p):

Pentium 4 2ghz (Highest needed: 3.0ghz EE(HT))
512mb DDR333 (Highest needed: 1024mb DDR400 (433 is best))
ATi Radeon 8000 Pro (Highest Needed: Radeon 9200 (Nvid: Geforce4))

Edit: My specs are:
P4 2.8 EE with HyperThreading (45c Idle, 60c Load)
Corsair DDR433 512 (2x256mb banks)
Excelstor 60gb HDD with 40gb ES in Raid config- SATA
GeForce4 MX4000 (Upgrading the piece of shit :P)
Runs fine, get nice juicy FPS running Winamp in the background and other apps.

One thing to look for is your A) Services, and B) Background apps.

Go to Task Manager, View> Coloumns (Proceses view) and turn on "GDI Objects". See what's using the most and kill them if their non-systemy (Use Google to check them)

Tycho C

28-07-04, 14:46

I went from an AMD Athlon 1gig (Thunderbird core, the origional Athlon :p ) to an AMD Athlon XP Mobile 2600+

I bumped the FSB of the chip to 333 so it maches my RAM speed. I havn't even touched the actual core speed. My frame rates in NC have at least doubled, and they have trippled in OP fights. I get 30 where I used to get 9.

I run a GeForce2 Ti :lol: The game is smoother then ever.

Temps are 42c under load. With a mediocer cooler that I bought at Bestbuy cause I broke a fin on my last one.

This chip is the famouse I stepping as well. This chip is practicly garunteed to reach at least 2600mhz at 400 FSB on AIR.

SorkZmok

28-07-04, 16:03

2 to 10 fps in opwars, 5 to 15 in NF, 15 to 25 avg when im hunting. 100 staring at a wall in my apt though. :)

Sometimes i wish i had the money for a new computer. Just to see what my pvp skill would be then. :(
Stupid student life. Being poor sucks.

/edit
Not to mention EXTREME LAG. Even with a ping of 80. (And i cant get it lower due to not having fastpath.) Lag i cant explain. :mad:

winnoc

28-07-04, 16:46

Something is surely fucked up about my windows install then, as i get awesome results in sisoft sandra, but only mediocre results in 3dmark2001 and neocron.

I mean, my processor ranks way way above the amd3200+.

Xadhoom

28-07-04, 16:52

AMD Athlon64 3000+
Radeon 9800 Pro
1 gig Kingston DDR RAM
MSI K8T Neo

120 - 200 Frames in city, 25 - 100 in op fight. Depends on how much ppl are involved.

Juht

28-07-04, 20:06

For the people that are stumped at getting same FPS or very little increase on an uber PC rig over a 5-year-old classic rig...

As video cards get newer they add new 3D features that are typically turned ON by default... All these fancy features make NO difference (in quality) for games that aren't coded for them: i.e. Neocron.

Learn your video card, know the features, know what to turn off when you are playing old games. Most cards you can even make profiles for each game so that you don't have to change video settings when you go between games.

My best config for Neocron on my Athlon XP 2700 / Radeon 9600XT yields:

Resolution: 1024x768x16 (Neocron doesn't use 32-bit textures afaik)
Min FPS: 90 (Plaza 2)
Max FPS: 333 (Looking at a bare wall)
Avg playing FPS: 120

Seven

28-07-04, 22:35

(Neocron doesn't use 32-bit textures afaik)

It does for some stuff. Like the cellars in viarosso 3, when you first enter there's a spray of steam coming from the walls. If I play in 16 bit they have a fishnet effect, 32 bit they look full and like steam. (actually fairly realistic)

I also notice a difference with the ground and hill terrain.

16 bit bothered me so much I had to go back to 32, this is on a 9800 pro card so maybe it's an ATi issue.

winnoc

29-07-04, 12:00

Yesterday i had a friendly guy from Phoenix mercs help me a bit on my fps.

So it seems these things all help :

Play in 16 bit instead of 32 bit resolution (gave me a 20 fps increase from 30 to 50)
Turn off Vsync
I have AA and AF off
Vegetation details off, the next one halfway (i think it's dynamic lighting), and the next one, world texture details off.
Change priority of client.exe in taskmanager to high (if you set it to the highest level you can't alt tab back)

Now all i have to do is find out how come my 2500mhz doesn't give me that much of a difference to a PII450mhz ........

Cubico

29-07-04, 12:31

Hi,

for a long time I thought that I am too old and dont have the right equipment to be able to be successfull in attacking other people.
Also, I was reading the forums and many people said they own others because they have more "skill".

Till a got my new 3 GHz Pentium ...

Forget all the shit you hear about "pvp-skill", that some few people can move the mouse so much better than others etc.
I now think that about 95 % of being successfull only depends on the client, the player's condition (drunk, tired etc.),the char's equipment and the given situation (prepared for pvp, having clan members around etc).
All this can be bought and prepared in some way.

There is no magic "pvp skill", only 12 year old children still believe that.

ou7blaze

29-07-04, 12:54

I play neocron with 400ping average but i still manage to beat quite a few...

winnoc

29-07-04, 13:47

Still with low ping and low fps pvp sucks ass.

Riddle

29-07-04, 14:07

How can i measure my FPS whilst in game? How have you got your results for plaza Op wars etc? The only thing I have noticed whilst playing on my 2.8ghz with a 64 mb geforce is lag city and jerk off frames when in El Farid generally when the queen spawns shit loads! Plaza seems fine except P2 when busy with tradeskillers. What is the best setup for the options within game? Please bear in mind im not 100% computer head just like playing the game :)