all ppl in one clan? [Archive] - Official Neocron Forum

awkward silence

09-07-04, 00:54

Ok im just tired and i want to bitch ... but i believe i have a good reason.

On saturn there is a clan wich basically get more ppl online then any faction to the op scene (well almost). So to get to the point. Most of those guys are probably in that clan just because it is the strongest clan around making it even bigger. All the respect to those who built that clan. But for those that ''join the topdog''... Do you enjoy only fighting when you get 3-4 times the amount than your opponent everytime you fight? Is it fun not having a challenge?

I was in The Final Resistance and it was fun. We fought won and lost at times but we managed until half the clan decided to go suprise suprise *******.
some of them even caught saying '' i hate faction hoppers'' earlier as their mantra.

I believe other servers may have the same ''problem''.

Ahh im just bitching cuz we lost today with 5 ppl agaist 15 or more... that sucks but if we dont want to fight with those numbers were called ninja hackers.Just sad that some ppl have to ruin this game by this shit.
I could blame many ppl of many things but i have done half those things and get banned so ill just go to sleep. Doest make me want to log tomorrow.

gnight

Candaman

09-07-04, 00:58

It does happen a lot we have recently made a new clan in DRE on pluto and got a few people that joined that made the clan shoot up to about 50 including alts and stuff. But i see more and more 0/2 DRE noobs running round and this is on pluto where there is hardly anyone and now there are people in DRE which there never were b4.

Judge

09-07-04, 01:07

This happens reguarly on Saturn... every few months there is a new flavour of super clan, all the time thinking that they'll weather the test of time.

Birkoff

09-07-04, 01:14

Sad really but better than seeing TG everywhere :)

Will start seeing lots of TT on pluto as well maybe due to NDAs return (not just old members)

awkward silence

09-07-04, 01:15

This happens reguarly on Saturn... every few months there is a new flavour of super clan, all the time thinking that they'll weather the test of time.

Actually they do half of ** became ****** and half of ****** onto *******
not exactly that simple but mainly.
You get the point.
Have never bothered to read the forum rules so thats why the stars.

ezza

09-07-04, 01:24

if the clan in question is BD, then sorry cos a lot of them were made up of people from a previous BD clan who owned the server.

most of them have been togeather for long time.

the clan if it is the BD clan doesnt recuit, people ask they say no. only way to get in is either be a good pvper or to know a member of the clan.

oh and they also killed in the past anyone who faction jumped to BD, causing a lot of people to get pissed because of it

and if its another clan then meh..

-REMUS-

09-07-04, 01:31

Happens on Pluto allot, like Judge mentioned "super clan" is the same terminology I use for the phenomenon too. A well known player starts up a clan with friends then a flood of faction hoppers start, the players keep joining and eventually the clan falls apart under its own weight. DarK and FF are the only two clans on Pluto that have survived this snow ball effect to my knowledge.

N.C.F, T.A and others are recent examples of what I would consider "Super clans" on Pluto.

Biznatchy

09-07-04, 06:34

oh and they also killed in the past anyone who faction jumped to BD, causing a lot of people to get pissed because of it

and if its another clan then meh..

You faction hoped to BD just a few weeks ago now didnt you. Just when the BDvsCS started to really heat up.

On Topic
This worst part of this is I just dont want to put up with the crap. I find myself playing Americas Army more then NC. They have so many in that clan they now dont have many reds to shoot so they took off shooting greens.

40$Poser

09-07-04, 07:13

You faction hoped to BD just a few weeks ago now didnt you. Just when the BDvsCS started to really heat up.

On Topic
This worst part of this is I just dont want to put up with the crap. I find myself playing Americas Army more then NC. They have so many in that clan they now dont have many reds to shoot so they took off shooting greens.

actually sir, Ezza was BD before. Yet he did join Crahn. Why? (from what I understand) He left BD to join some friends who had came back to neo and restarted an older clan. But eventually things didn't work out (or so I understand) thus he came back to BD where a few of the people he knew still played.

Anyways, I left the clan in question (not because I hated them don't get me wrong), because well I see no challenge as the thread started said, I think it'd be great to join a new faction on saturn and attempt to overthrow BD. Plus I always disliked being labeled as an 'asshole' when most of the stuff the clan did (allied faction pking) I never took part in or even understood why we were attacking allied factions.

YoDa-UK

09-07-04, 11:33

Originally posted by 40$Poser

Anyways, I left the clan in question (not because I hated them don't get me wrong), because well I see no challenge as the thread started said, I think it'd be great to join a new faction on saturn and attempt to overthrow BD. Plus I always disliked being labeled as an 'asshole' when most of the stuff the clan did (allied faction pking) I never took part in or even understood why we were attacking allied factions.

You sir are a star, and certainly the only one i have heard of leaving said faction for said crimes, well done to you and i wish you good luck in the faction/clan you wish to join.

Originally posted by Ezza
the clan if it is the BD clan doesnt recuit, people ask they say no. only way to get in is either be a good pvper or to know a member of the clan.

Are you serious? you say they only get in IF they are good at PvP, you gotta be shitting me? i mean come on Ezza even you know half of BD are made of of shit PvPer's who just joined so they are not on the losing side, lets be honest here, I would say there are some good fighters, but its a handful at most, whenever i faced BD in a fight and lost was only coz of overwhelming numbers against me or my side, and sure you can say well go get more people to band together against BD, but that doesn't work.

At the end of the day people do what they like in a game they pay for, but i think everyone will agree it is lame to jump on the bandwagon coz you don't want to lose against someone, so you ............hmmm whats the term im looking for, ah yes Join the winning team. "It's that also a BD clan on saturn lol"

Anyway this will get closed with the normal Keep it in game, i myself find more fun fighting CM than ever fighting BD, at least i know ill get a good fight from CM.

slaughteruall

09-07-04, 11:50

Plus I always disliked being labeled as an 'asshole' when most of the stuff the clan did (allied faction pking) I never took part in or even understood why we were attacking allied factions.

I dont mind the labels i just go along with it. From what i have seen the "allies" as you put it do i have no problem killing them. I'm tired of seeing "green" PPU's buffing red players inside PP. And yes this was just a few days after we got all cool with each other again.

Also goes back to the killing faction hoppers. I have no problem doing that either. Only reason they changed factions was to have a easy time with the GR's.

@thread starter. You mostly have no idea what your talking about. There are alot of times we are out numbered. Ask the mercs we fought them a fe days ago (last time i was on). They easily had way more then we did. We lost the first time (quite badly) regrouped and went back for more. That is what makes it fun. Not this owe i died might as well log off shit. You died dont you want revenge for it? I know i did and i was on my PPU. damn serer was really shity that day. Yeah i know when isn't it.

Slaughter

Richard Slade

09-07-04, 11:54

T'is true that people have a tendency to just jump on the wagon and follow the lead.
Which sucks.
If certain clans just split and bumped out into different facs
And if some certain clans stopped killing their own
And if some certain clans would respect the sanctity of certain areas,
we would have some good gaming
and phat OP wars
BUT since people just seem to follow the biggest guy like a pack of lemmings or something, we won't
which sucks horribly
(No I'm not a member of any big clan.)

winnoc

09-07-04, 11:56

Who cares realy about which clan has the most people in it?

So if GR's are closed, spec vehicle, it doesn't take too much away from your combat skills, not even for monks.

And as for the BD clan you're talking about, it's quite fun fighting them, they do have some realy good players in it. And in the end it's all about having fun in the game with the friends you have there, not about being in a particular clan.

slaughteruall

09-07-04, 11:59

winnoc

09-07-04, 12:05

If you see mercs and a rhino, i'm in it :-)

The thing is; the damn tin can is so slow, i ussually end up being late all the time lol.

slaughteruall

09-07-04, 12:08

If you see mercs and a rhino, i'm in it :-)

The thing is; the damn tin can is so slow, i ussually end up being late all the time lol.

heh no no rhino there. Slacker show up more often so i can kill you :)

Slaughter

ezza

09-07-04, 12:09

You faction hoped to BD just a few weeks ago now didnt you. Just when the BDvsCS started to really heat up.

haha i didnt move when things got hot i had returned my tank to BD before the shit hit the fan.

and as you seemingly know nothing ill explain further of Ezza the tank

hmm maybe about 8 or 9 months ago i went BD, this all before Blood Titans or Cartel.

only Red symp where there at the time and i think Vet was around with his DEG clan.

Cartel started up, not long after Mayhemmike recuited me, then maybe a month before cartel disbanded a number of my old clan FoC rejoined the game so i decided to give it a go with them, and returned to crahn.

however, i got bored of crahn, nothing to do with the in house fighting as that was to come, it was partly the fact that everytime i went to BD, i left with Red SL from killing mercs, so i returned to BD to stop having to do that.

and in case you dont know im also shinto who is listed in FoC as one of the members and im still active in crahn.

Anima, im more talking about one BD clan, the rest i dont really have contact with, not spoke to any of blood titans, as i dont really see the old guys in the clan who i liked, but Shadow have always been made up of a core of good players, like Decypher,devils Grace, zoneseek.

ok not everyone was good PvPer since i was in the clan :lol:

Sigma

09-07-04, 12:39

[...]ah yes Join the winning team. "It's that also a BD clan on saturn lol"[...]
LOOK MOMMY! I'M ON TV!

:D

[..]Anima, im more talking about one BD clan, the rest i dont really have contact with, not spoke to any of blood titans, as i dont really see the old guys in the clan who i liked, but Shadow have always been made up of a core of good players, like Decypher,devils Grace, zoneseek.

ok not everyone was good PvPer since i was in the clan :lol:
You are KoS now. :wtf: :p :D

ezza

09-07-04, 12:41

oh sorry i forgot about a uber clan called FU KOS, there pretty leet, wiped my clan out anyway :lol:

dunno how i forgot about you guys actually since i see you in PP fair bit, memory going :(

Sigma

09-07-04, 12:46

oh sorry i forgot about a uber clan called FU KOS, there pretty leet, wiped my clan out anyway :lol:

dunno how i forgot about you guys actually since i see you in PP fair bit, memory going :(
<3 :)

anyways btt. atm BD is NOT the massive force u (threadstarter) make it out to be, FA is HUGE (playerlike), CM got a lot of people to, now with FFD and adult tsunami is big in buisness, TG doesn't seem THAT dead to me 2.

so I personaly see now problem.

ofc, ppl want to join the winning team, but rest assure we won't recruit :x

40$Poser

09-07-04, 18:24

Darkener

09-07-04, 19:10

40$Poser

09-07-04, 19:16

hmmm thought this crap would be kept in game , Dec your reasons for leaving are your own do not claim they are for the killing of allied factions or put the rest of us down for as yoda-uk put it said crimes. I know myself when people were voicing there opinions about stuff like that you never once spoke up, just went along with it

actually I did question it on a few occassions, but nothing was accomplished. No one gave a shit. But what would I know, I mean, I was in cartel since almost the beginning of it and in shadow corps up until a week ago... guess I don't know that much eh dark?

garyu69

09-07-04, 19:25

It happens and it always will happen especially with Populations that are not in the thousands. Maybe if there were thousands then clans would be more even.

like Candaman, there is a DRE clan on pluto who pretty much always have more people online than my clan, but the three of us who are mainly on always go back for more just for the fun element :)

I know it sucks losing to a larger amount of people but hey, just go fight someone else if it keeps happening, eventually that clan will find out no one is fighting them and people may then break away.

Darkener

09-07-04, 19:25

Candaman

09-07-04, 19:35

40$Poser

09-07-04, 19:39

Yes , i never heard you complain is all im saying, you never seemed to have a problem with it thats what im saying i also know i dont like being bd for the same reasons you dont like being BD but i stay for my friends thats it.

I stayed for the friends, whom no longer play the game for various reasons. I did always have a problem with the allied faction pking. That's why I'd usually not attack allied factions, unless of course they started to attack me.

Biznatchy

09-07-04, 20:04

I stayed for the friends, whom no longer play the game for various reasons. I did always have a problem with the allied faction pking. That's why I'd usually not attack allied factions, unless of course they started to attack me.

Allied faction ganking is the one major stain on the BD clans. It removes them from being really good clans to just assholes. I agree the F6 is screwed up but its what we have to work with.

40$Poser

09-07-04, 20:15

Allied faction ganking is the one major stain on the BD clans. It removes them from being really good clans to just assholes. I agree the F6 is screwed up but its what we have to work with.

agreed. not much can be done about the f6 issue until BDoY is here. The only thing would be truces and what not, but I hardly see that happening, especially on Saturn.

L3m0n

09-07-04, 20:26

Its the biggest clan on saturn did someone say? :p
I love it, most if not half are alts ;)
And did someone say Zergin in OP wars? O_o

YoDa-UK

09-07-04, 21:22

This is really hard to not put names here, so ill be as careful as i can.

Originally posted by 40$Poser
agreed. not much can be done about the f6 issue until BDoY is here. The only thing would be truces and what not, but I hardly see that happening, especially on Saturn.

Well you will know full well the history of a certain BD clan you was in, for the past lets say 4 to 6 weeks, you will also note the larger of the Crahn clans that was in the mix of it.

Ok to shed light on the problem here is my take, others will no doubt have different views and say so im sure.

There was a team lvling at CRP, both Crahn and BD, all fine and dandy and hell the said Crahn clan helped BD a few times at OP wars and also vice versa, anyway back in the cave came a Biotech runner, allied to BD but enemy to Crahn, no one said anything and when we saw the said Biotech runner we naturally opened fire, after the runner died and left, a few mins later a well known BD runner came to the cave area while we stood outside, the said runner began to mouth off, saying we do not kill anyone on so called BD territory, we do as we are told and so on, we of course do not agree to such idiotic demands and threats, but we kept our mouths shut and went back into the cave to lvl some more, now some BD also came in, and we carried on lvling and the big mouth left.

A few mins later we saw some extra BD guys from the same clan, they came and joined the team, we was a little suspect about them but carried on anyway, then out of the blue we find a enemy Biotech runner hitting us with HL's, of course the runner went red SL for this, but we died as the PPU was a BD one, so we didn't get help, as we was teamed we also had the belts removed, so we was basically stabbed in the back for killing a Biotech runner, which we later found out was a alt from the big mouth in BD.

Our leader for our Crahn clan at the time tried to talk to the leader of the BD clan, it was agreed no pking of allied factions was to happen, everything seemed ok at the time, we also agreed not to kill the Biotech runner we had from before, now knowing it was a alt of a BD guy, so all was ok? nope.

As the days went by countless times our members were reporting being PK'ed by the said BD clan, no matter how many times our leader was assured it would be dealt with, it never was, untill one day some of us snapped and had enough, we then set out to PK bd in turn, this was after 3 weeks of being PK'ed over and over.

We also found out from a clanless BD runner that he heard that all of crahn was KOS to BD faction, of which we found out when said Crahn clan ops was being hacked by BD, shocked a little yes we was.

Anyway the final straw was when we was fighting FA at Malstrond outpost, we took it, held it and then as we was leaving we had reports of BD moving into the zone, at the time we felt they would not outright attack our outpost, low and behold they did exactly that, one of our high ranking members GR'ed into the outpost only to find most of the BD clan in the UG "of course security settings allowed friendly to use the GR and obviously this counts for the UG", Once our member gr'ed back to the city, he DM'ed the BD clan leader only to be told "Surprise"

It was then that we decided an all out war against BD was to happen from Crahn, several other clans agreed and we set out doing as such, only it was almost impossible to fight with such large numbers against other greens and do well, so a core section of fighters from said Crahn clan split and moved over to TS to make it easier to fight BD, with them being red to us.

Said fighters from Crahn are now Adult Inc, its not surprise this has happened, not only has BD gone to such lenghts to try and take over the map, but also to cut off all allied relations and further put themselves on the most wanted list of almost every runner out there.

That my friends is the real story, that is why im TS and that is why i make it my mission to bring BD down, of course not all BD are like this, i know a few who are cool, Ezza and LiL T to name a couple.

What makes this matter worse though is this, at our normal playing times the BD faction has almost zero online, which would make me wonder why they hold outposts at all, it is only late at night when more log on "USA times" when the action gets going, i must ask why any clan can hold outposts for 24/7 when clearly they can't defend those times.

Also matters are worse, a certain TG clan has split and most of the haters of BD are now good buddies with said BD clan and switched faction just to make sure they are on the winning side.

It makes the chance of removing said faction hoppers and arsehats from the map even harder.

It is no surprise that last week i gave up on outpost fighting, i will from time to time go with Adult Inc if they know a fight is coming, but when i know said BD faction will go to any lenghts to win it is fun no more, im a hardcore fighter, always have been and always will be, but certain things i wont do, which just saddens me even more to see it in the game and being used freely.

Now give me CM anyday and i get good fights from them all the time, even BD agree to that.

Shadow Dancer

09-07-04, 21:58

I think it has mostly to do with the small population.

Sigma

09-07-04, 23:10

[...]That my friends is the real story[...]

No, it is NOT.

It's YOUR story, the other side may tell a different story.

I'm not questioning you, but saying "this is the real story", when infact it's just YOUR point of view, is kinda retarded

Shadow Dancer

09-07-04, 23:32

I'm not questioning you, but saying "this is the real story", when infact it's just YOUR point of view, is kinda retarded

Why?

Sometimes one person's truth IS the real truth.

ezza

10-07-04, 00:21

Why?

Sometimes one person's truth IS the real truth.
its only the truth as they see it, you need the whole picture for the truth, what you have is two sides to the story(not disputing or agreeing with what Yoda put just saying)one of which hasnt been told, that of sigma.

Zoneseek or Twist3d who were the leaders of cartel or Devils Grace leader of Shadow could of put there foot down, but then that just wasnt the clan.

not sure im getting across to you guys the point.

however you place the stops on those guys and they move on, cos thats not what they want.

give them free reign and thats in part what keeps it togeather.

i guess in NDA, although there proberbly is freedom, if one of your guys were to gank a neutral(or allie) that you didnt have reason to there would be problems, well thats not shadow/cartel

i enjoyed my time in cartel, best clan ive been in and i dont care what people think of the members, the battles were always great and the fact that the whole server was against us made it even better.

maybe with the bannings and the people leaving from the clan, you could see BD recede a bit(maybe not though judging at the map) however BD has always been the bad boys of the server, they just never had a clan like this before to shove it in people thoats.

umm not sure how any of what i said weights in with above posts but anyway there ya go :lol:

YoDa-UK

10-07-04, 00:55

Yeah i know what you mean Ezza, these "bad boys" or whatever you want to call them are not entirely playing that kinda role, they are more or less just being twats, plan and simple.

As to that little story being my version? well think whatever you like, nothing i can say to anyone will make a bit of difference, but i can't put names down on here as it would get closed, and end up just another locked bashing thread, so i won't name anyone.

Saturn sure does have a bad rep, and im not on about the crashing of the server lately that brings it, but certainly there are players out there who want to win no matter what they do, or how they go about it, i've seen this type of behavour (sp?) no where else in all my NC playing time, it is a shame and tbh the only way the will be stopped is to utterly crush them, stop them at every step of the way, that would take a solid clan the same size as the entire BD faction who was online 24/7, which we know won't happen.

So it ends like this, people end up not bothering to fight BD "which is what did happen hence why they turned on allied factions for their kicks" and as you see BD own i would say 75% of the map pretty much daily, and yet they don't fight over most of the ops they do hold, why? coz most of them are not online ever, except very late at night GMT. There is of course one other way, as BD like playing the idiot role, there could of course be a clan setup for one purpose only, and that is to completely and daily remove all BD ops from the map, doesn't matter what faction the said ninja's would be, as long as BD was removed, then when BD do log on, they would have to go about rehacking said ops.

How do you think the so called big bad boys would like that, logging on daily to find they own nothing, and have to rehack the ops daily without a fight?

Pretty lame i know, and there are maybe people who might do just that if things carry on as they are, but what alternative is there? hack a outpost making sure BD clan has members online? only to beat said clan and wait about for said clan to bring back a few more clans to help out, coz remember they don't care about a fight, they just want to win no matter what.

Let me repeat that

They just want to win no matter what.

That is how it will end.

Come DOY god help anti city on saturn.

ezza

10-07-04, 01:01

How do you think the so called big bad boys would like that, logging on daily to find they own nothing, and have to rehack the ops daily without a fight? used to happen every sunday, when only a few euros were on, once the rest of the clan came on the rest of server couldnt hold them from us

They just want to win no matter what. well dunno how it is now, lone wolf on my tank these days, never used to be win at last costs, used to be win cos we won fairly.

Merc V BD were often great battles, if we lost we would go back for fight as long as there was afight to be had

however the situation now i dunno.

i aint part of shadow because of the problems between Crahn and BD and my old crahn clan, so not really in on the day to day stuff going on.

not been to real op battle for quite some time admitidly

edit: the thread has been nice so far no real flaming, so i hope the mods will be cool and let this thread run

Mr Friendly

10-07-04, 01:19

made the clan shoot up to about 50 including alts and stuff.

33*
(as of yesterday)

awkward silence

10-07-04, 08:57

I dont mind the labels i just go along with it. From what i have seen the "allies" as you put it do i have no problem killing them. I'm tired of seeing "green" PPU's buffing red players inside PP. And yes this was just a few days after we got all cool with each other again.

Also goes back to the killing faction hoppers. I have no problem doing that either. Only reason they changed factions was to have a easy time with the GR's.

@thread starter. You mostly have no idea what your talking about. There are alot of times we are out numbered. Ask the mercs we fought them a fe days ago (last time i was on). They easily had way more then we did. We lost the first time (quite badly) regrouped and went back for more. That is what makes it fun. Not this owe i died might as well log off shit. You died dont you want revenge for it? I know i did and i was on my PPU. damn serer was really shity that day. Yeah i know when isn't it.

Slaughter

Dude as i said i was mad cuz i got killed but if i posted everytime i get killed
i would...well.
Anyway look around dude look at the fuckin map more than half the ops are in bd control mainly alms from a certain clan.
When we fought you guys with numbers like 2vs2 or 2vs4 or 3vs4 its fun but it isnt fun have about 20 ppl against 3. Most of the time you fight with those numbers. When you guys got bout 5 ppl online and we take ops with 6-7 ppl were called ninja hackers. 1 on 1 some of ya guys are even fantastic but most of ya just join the bandwagon wich is sad.

Shadow Dancer

10-07-04, 09:05

its only the truth as they see it, you need the whole picture for the truth,

Yes, and sometimes what they do see is indeed the whole picture. I'm not saying Yoda is right or wrong, I don't really care. But to say something is not the truth, simply because it's their opinion is a bit silly IMO.

If a third person is able to see whole entire picture, and then say "this is what really happened", are they not telling it as they see it? Does it make it any less true? Nope.

40$Poser

10-07-04, 09:10

the way I see things... seldom are people open minded to where they'll admit they might be in the wrong. As it has been said before, every story has 2 sides to it. How often both sides tell the same exact story... well that's pretty rare.

The point is, I think everyone enjoys an even fight. This whole 'trash talking' thing on Saturn has gotten beyond old and ridiculous. Just maybe (a big maybe), people could begin to fight again with respect and look for even fights. Those kinds of fights always seem to be the most enjoyable for both sides.

Shadow Dancer

10-07-04, 09:17

Huh? I thought you said you enjoyed trash talking? :p

40$Poser

10-07-04, 09:20

Huh? I thought you said you enjoyed trash talking? :p

think again sir (insert creepy winking emote here)

I'm usually being sarcastic if someone is trash talking to me. Reinventing the ^^ and replacing it with the vv

Other than that, no talk about trash from meh.

Biznatchy

10-07-04, 10:45

its only the truth as they see it, you need the whole picture for the truth, what you have is two sides to the story(not disputing or agreeing with what Yoda put just saying)one of which hasnt been told, that of sigma.

That whole story that Yoda posted sounds like the same story many people have when it includes the BD clan in question. It was the same story with the next clan i was in, it sounds like the same story witht he crahn clan im in now. Some of the little details are different but the results are pretty much the same. Gank some random red runner, not BD, and have BD all over you like you killed thier mother not just some epic mule. The second part that rings a bell is having the leader covering for guys that are just out ganking allies and not doing shit about it.

Ezza you make the excuse for BD ally ganking and lack of control over there members that the leader doesnt want to impose rules on the members. FFS cant you guys get it clear that this kinda attitude from a clan with that much power is going to really hurt the game online numbers. With power comes responsiblity. If you just want to let a huge turd on the game and not give a shit fine but dont make excuses.

ezza

10-07-04, 11:28

wasnt making excuse, im saying how it is, they play the game how they want to, nothing you can do about it other than fight back if thats what you think is needed.

YoDa-UK

10-07-04, 12:13

just logged on, thought i would catch up on this thread, its nice to see its still kept cool and mods not closing, thank you mods.

Ezza is right, there is nothing you can do to try and change the way people play their game, and if people want to faction hop into BD and wish to join an already powerful clan then so be it, there is nothing you me or joe bob can do about it.

So what are the options left to the rest of the server, band together with several factions to and fight back? no viable IMHO, communication between factions is limited at best, almost impossible i would have to say, i know first hand what it is like to try and organise people from different clans/factions.

Also its like i said and others had said, BD just isn't online during most of OUR peak tiems, this is not their fault, nor ours, its just a fact of online gaming, BUT it has been said countless times on these very forums, if you can't defend a outpost 24/7 then you certainly don't deserve it, which begs the question again - Why does BD hold so many ops? - the answer is reputation, people either don't want to fight such a large enemy or have past experience with BD that they know come night time they will get ninja'd back coz of course the other side of the server are mostly sleeping or they know BD will end up bringing to many numbers to possibly counter against.

These are quotes from Ezza "i can never figure out how to quote someone from their post lol"

used to happen every sunday, when only a few euros were on, once the rest of the clan came on the rest of server couldnt hold them from us

Well its the same situation these days, in the past week our leader has checked the city com, and let us know over ventrilo that one clan had 4 online, another had 2 online and the last had none, so a total of 6 runners, funny that we would have taken one clans op, not all three, yet we always add up all the BD clans numbers coz we know they all come together, anyway 6 online, we thought ok maybe we could try for one op, we wanted a fight cos we was bored of lvling and such, so we attack one, we had about 8 i think rough guess but we don't have that many in the clan, anyway no one showed up, checked the city com again to find all 3 clans now only had 2 online between them all, so no fight there, we gave up.

Now of course later that night, as with every night, BD are on in mass numbers and see a colour on the map other than theirs, they move out and take it, regardless, if we happen to be online and try and defend, its a fight, IF we win, 100% of the time they will return with even more people and we still have the same people, should we win a fight and then call on allies to help defend again coz we know they will bring even more people coz they died first time round? how stupid is that, nah we give up, we know what will happen now when we beat one clan from BD, so thats why i gave up over outpost fights, whats the point, you already know the outcome and the fight itself isn't even fun coz of that.

well dunno how it is now, lone wolf on my tank these days, never used to be win at last costs, used to be win cos we won fairly.

Merc V BD were often great battles, if we lost we would go back for fight as long as there was afight to be had

Well it is now like i said above, do a little check on the forums right now and see another guy posting the same thing, he has gotten fed up with the saturn problems, and not just the lag/rollback problems, but of this situation we talk about here.

I love to fight people and love to fight fairly, and thats when i love to win, knowing it was a good fight and no dirty tricks and no being outnumbered 2 or maybe 3 vs 1, when you win coz of skill and good teamwork nothing in this game comes close, the sheer enjoyment factor from that alone would keep me going for years.

But sadly there is none of that right now, except when fighting CM, they put up a great fight and its always fun, gotta love the mercs for that :)

Thought just came to me, ever notice how the mercs held their ops around the MB and only sometimes ventured out of it to fight, but they never got greedy and wanted it all.

Sigma

10-07-04, 12:46

[...]yet we always add up all the BD clans numbers coz we know they all come together[...]
pure and utter BS tbh.

It's a VERY rare sight to see all 3 "big" BD-clans fight together.

This is mostly because:

1. Internal struggles between 2 of the 3 clans

2. most BD-clans take pride in fighting on there own, and only calling for help if seriously outnumbered.

btw. stop it with the "big BD-Force" because there isn't any, FA for example easily outnumbers us at fights 90% of the time.

and where is your problem calling allies? ofc u'd have to call other factions, while BD handles it alone as a faction, but thats not a biggy in my eyes.

and most of the time u show up with crahn anyways, so :rolleyes:

Dru Blood

10-07-04, 12:52

these kind of threads always make my day, really does it wind you up that much that a group of friends goto an op war together?

why not try making your own force bigger rather than whining and wasting your time on the forums?

YoDa-UK

10-07-04, 14:20

It's a VERY rare sight to see all 3 "big" BD-clans fight together.

You gotta be kinding me, i will say only a few times at least FU KOS clan have fought on their own, good fights sometimes we have had against them despite the TL 3 healing your melee tank does, no names but the one with the red shirt, you know who he is, we can stil lwin despite that sometimes.

As for BD not fighting together, i don't have to argue that wth you, everyone who plays on saturn and fights BD knows the truth, so im not gonna shout who does what for other people on other servers to see, thats childish.

most BD-clans take pride in fighting on there own, and only calling for help if seriously outnumbered.

This though i won't let slide, this is total bullshit when you talk about the biggest of the BD clans, once beaten they ALWAYS come back with other clans in order to win.

Look i dont know what goes on inside BD faction if you got trouble with eachother, but i do know for a fact that one BD clan will and does call on other clans to help them, and yet this BD clan is the one of the biggest on the entire server.

You say they only call when outnumbered? utter bs as far as im concerned, as ive been on the receiving end of their tactics countless times, hence why i don't fight at ops anymore, how about the time crest uplink was being hacked, we went there to defend only to find already 2 of the 3 BD clans taking the outpost from one small clan, surely they needed 2 clans, of course they did coz they knew they would be outnumbered by one small clan, of course.

Say whatever you want, i don't care lol, i know what i see and i see shit daily, and end up reading it daily on the forum here.

Sigma

10-07-04, 15:21

[...]You say they only call when outnumbered? utter bs as far as im concerned, as ive been on the receiving end of their tactics countless times, hence why i don't fight at ops anymore, how about the time crest uplink was being hacked, we went there to defend only to find already 2 of the 3 BD clans taking the outpost from one small clan, surely they needed 2 clans, of course they did coz they knew they would be outnumbered by one small clan, of course.

Say whatever you want, i don't care lol, i know what i see and i see shit daily, and end up reading it daily on the forum here.you and a small clan? :wtf:

ofc, because of that most of the time we (fu kos) attack one of ur ops, u come with ur tsu-clan AND crahn.

and No I don't give a fuck if u r the same clan, u'd bitch about it too if we would bring some other factionalts

It's ridiculous, because EVERYTHING that pisses u of about BD, I can give right back at u.

BD ninjas?

so do u

BD zergs?

so do u

and about the TL 3 healing tank, well if 1 meleetank who TL3 heals u is enough to get u going, well them maybe all of us should start the noobbuffing.

I want to be famous, too :x

edit:

[...]Say whatever you want, i don't care lol, i know what i see and i see shit daily, and end up reading it daily on the forum here.No, you don't end up reading them.

You end up posting them. :wtf:

Dru Blood

10-07-04, 16:03

well said sigma, :D

hehe nothing wrong with tl3 healing its a valid tactic get used to it

Marx

10-07-04, 16:05

why not try making your own force bigger rather than whining and wasting your time on the forums?With pluto - it's hard to get pro-city moving since anti-city is so much more appealing, and therefore the numbers actually in the pro-city factions is comparitively minute.. That will certainly change though since several of the large clans have moved pro-city.

LTA

10-07-04, 16:07

I'm tired of seeing "green" PPU's buffing red players inside PP. And yes this was just a few days after we got all cool with each other again.

Slaughter
heh may not be the case but sometimes whats red to you is green to someone else but like i said only apply in some cases, i know cuz i was helping bd with my crahn ppu on another server and then some greens where like wtf you help our enemy your spose to be our allie.
I was buffing them but that was all, i rez all the dead of the other side yet i was still somehow a enemy then some angry guy came shot me so i stuck him and boosted him, he died and didn't get rez'd that day. "Why you not rez you said you rez friends"
"Yeah but you tried to kill me that dosen't make you my friend"

So yeah anyway sometimes wahts red to you can be diff....
but then you probably took that into acc anyway and will somehow render this post null :D :p

Dru Blood

10-07-04, 16:13

i know for a fact that when doy comes out who ever has the stongest side city or anti city ... we will move to the weakest side.

Marx

10-07-04, 16:15

i know for a fact that when doy comes out who ever has the stongest side city or anti city ... we will move to the weakest side.Sadly - and all there will be a tradeskiller shortage because everyone will be LoMing to hack.

:lol:

Dru Blood

10-07-04, 16:30

Sadly - and all there will be a tradeskiller shortage because everyone will be LoMing to hack.

:lol:

hehe yeah.

slaughteruall

10-07-04, 19:34

You gotta be kinding me, i will say only a few times at least FU KOS clan have fought on their own, good fights sometimes we have had against them despite the TL 3 healing your melee tank does, no names but the one with the red shirt, you know who he is, we can stil lwin despite that sometimes.

WTF? since i went BD i have never been to a fight where we had any other clan/faction with us.

As for BD not fighting together, i don't have to argue that wth you, everyone who plays on saturn and fights BD knows the truth, so im not gonna shout who does what for other people on other servers to see, thats childish.

We also do not always bring another BD clan with us. This is such BS. I can't even remember our last fight where we fought just 1 faction. Your fighting 1 clan most of the time and you complain. Were fighting 3 factions and you still lose. Put your purse down and get some skill not more players.

This though i won't let slide, this is total bullshit when you talk about the biggest of the BD clans, once beaten they ALWAYS come back with other clans in order to win.

Once again your a idiot. We keep in internal to the clans. Unless it was a complete zerg by the other side.

Look i dont know what goes on inside BD faction if you got trouble with eachother, but i do know for a fact that one BD clan will and does call on other clans to help them, and yet this BD clan is the one of the biggest on the entire server.

Once again BS. I have never heard of a DM or even a call for help of faction chat from another BD clan wanting help. We have done MB raids and what not with other factoin. A couple of the times is was just funny. We started to GR in at get set up only to find another BD clan already there doing the same thing.

You say they only call when outnumbered? utter bs as far as im concerned, as ive been on the receiving end of their tactics countless times, hence why i don't fight at ops anymore, how about the time crest uplink was being hacked, we went there to defend only to find already 2 of the 3 BD clans taking the outpost from one small clan, surely they needed 2 clans, of course they did coz they knew they would be outnumbered by one small clan, of course.

Say whatever you want, i don't care lol, i know what i see and i see shit daily, and end up reading it daily on the forum here.

Not worth comenting on. Read above. Your sadly mistaken.

YoDa-UK

10-07-04, 20:36

shall i, shall i not? hmm well its obvious nothing i say gets through to BD, but like i have said before, those that do fight BD know the truth, so maybe it is a keep it ingame thing.

Going back to the thread starter, see his point? it can't be just me can it? good god i must be mistaken then, of course.

Why was it then that Shadow told us when we was lost souls, that if we attack a shadow op, only shadow would come, fair enough, but if we attack a blood titan op, shadow would help them as they don't have enough to hold ops on their own.

BUT again what happened at crest uplink, what happened at grant mine 3 nights ago? oh wait shadow was there with blood titans, of course i must be wrong again.

I remember watching, yes from my dead body, Wannabe our melee tank running about with hmm let me recall, 7 APU's from both clans on him, he lasted a little while, but firepower was a little to much for him, thats not counting countless tanks and PPU's there.

I thought i had a screenshot of that fight, but i don't what i did find though was a screenshot of my at shirkan fortress when i was in Lost souls with the others and we was there with Eled and so on from BD as we was getting to move out for a outpost fight against someone else, those were the days when BD was ok, something flipped in your heads guys.

NS_CHROME54

11-07-04, 00:00

<zombie mode>
The Covenant is rising and will soon be powerful...
</zombie mode>

Darkener

11-07-04, 01:43

Oh BTW YODA when attackin op's generally it is only good when you attack one clan's ops countless times you have attacked the ops of 2 clans and they both come does this shock you they both might want to defend their ops ?. Don't say it doesnt happen its happened a few times

Xiphias

11-07-04, 02:22

No, it is NOT.

It's YOUR story, the other side may tell a different story.

I'm not questioning you, but saying "this is the real story", when infact it's just YOUR point of view, is kinda retarded

why wouldn't he tell the truth? what does he gain by lying?

i fight with anima, and he does speak the truth, if you beat one clan, they will most of the time just log off till they can beat you with superior numbers,

as for the tl3 healing, yes its not an exploit, it just makes up for lack of skill.

Sigma

11-07-04, 03:15

why wouldn't he tell the truth? what does he gain by lying?

i fight with anima, and he does speak the truth, if you beat one clan, they will most of the time just log off till they can beat you with superior numbers,

as for the tl3 healing, yes its not an exploit, it just makes up for lack of skill.So you are saying it's the truth, the one and only, the universal truth?

And you are saying it because you know him, you fight with him, maybe you are even in the same clan?

Of course, then it must be the truth, because one of his clanmates just told me so. :rolleyes:

Edit: so you are saying 1 (ONE) TL3 healing Meleetank completely comprimises your superior skill, so that skilless players like myself can kill you?

quite interesting :wtf:

Birdman[H.E.]

11-07-04, 04:12

1) Yes there must be tons of ppl like Ezza who are BD becouse they just like the faction or have friends in there, or whatever.

But i guess 50% of the BDs today or more, are faction Hoopers, they cant stand a fare fight.

2) BDs dont even have a HQ to raid, so its fun as you can do as you wish with MB or TG then go back neo and stay safe.

3) I bet 70% or more of the people who choose a faction arent even trying to RP their chars.

4) Nobody likes to loose, so lets choose the winner side :)

Myself well i was unclanned since a week ago or so, then i look at the server balance, and think, BD is the winning team, well lets go TG then, so now im trying to RP a TG Runner.

Even when i fight agaisnt the odds sometimes, it still is TONS more fun to fight 5 vs me, than being 5 vs you.

Its just what i think, remember i was FA before, and i changed to balance the server, but its just me, some ppl think different.

Now i meet good people in TG, so im planning to stay.

Ultima

11-07-04, 04:45

Catholic School Girls will be returning for :BDOY

We have been Tangent since we started in beta (Albeit under the name 'True Family' in the past) and will continue to be Tangent when we return. We will rule under Castoff and we ask any other runner who knows deep down that a Tangent is the only way to go, to return to the hive-mind. Prove that Tangent can be the true dominant force it once was!

YoDa-UK

11-07-04, 10:19

I wish you the best Ultima, glad to see people will return when DOY comes, hope we get new players too.

TT is a good faction to be, i always tried to play the defense agency bit on pluto for most of the time there, one thing about saturn TT though is a little odd, for the most part some TT runners help BD, i know there are close ties though between them coming from the old Templars that a few BD guys was in, still a little annoying but oh well.

I think come DOY the city on saturn will need more runners to counter the DOY, as it stands only really CM are present on the map, its mainly BD/FA/TG/TS/Crahn who are fighting over outposts, and of course the Mercs.

CA/TT/DRE/PP/Next and Biotech are very much quiet, yet i do know TT and CA are there somewhere, just not that active in outposts, can't blame them though at its present state, maybe they stopped for the same reasons many have in the past few weeks.

On the note of TL healing being a valid tactic, is BS, you know full well when your enemy only has one PPU and you newb heal him/her then your enemy is gonna drop a few mins after, coz no ppu in this game means no fight, you know that.

I still think that newb healing or buffs are crap and used by those who either want the fight to end with minimal fuss and effort, or those that want to win no matter what, you know i was newb healed 5 times in a fight once, the ppu on our side counted the amount of times he tried to get a heal on me, i was still amazed i lived to win the fight, newb healing is shit tbh, if you use it, KK should just implement an override of spells, the high TL overriders the lower.

Sigma

11-07-04, 12:26

[...]On the note of TL healing being a valid tactic, is BS, you know full well when your enemy only has one PPU and you newb heal him/her then your enemy is gonna drop a few mins after, coz no ppu in this game means no fight, you know that.

I still think that newb healing or buffs are crap and used by those who either want the fight to end with minimal fuss and effort, or those that want to win no matter what, you know i was newb healed 5 times in a fight once, the ppu on our side counted the amount of times he tried to get a heal on me, i was still amazed i lived to win the fight, newb healing is shit tbh, if you use it, KK should just implement an override of spells, the high TL overriders the lower.
Your clan and only 1 PPU?

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

It was pretty rare to see your clan only with 2 PPUs at an OP, let alone 1. :wtf:

btw. I'm only talking about your fights with us, not with shadow or Blood Titans

Dru Blood

11-07-04, 13:24

yoda didnt you say you were leaving saturn? do it already i think every one on saturn is sick of you and your bullshit whining stories.

if your not happy go piss off else where, or do something about it IN GAME, not here.

tiikeri

11-07-04, 14:27

If u say that BD always fights just alone.. then where the hell have u guys been when the fight was on?

I should prolly start taking screenies when fighting just to show everybody
how many BD clans is really fighting when they come.

Exept, just couple days ago. when we attacked Shadow op, and there was only DarkH online. I told him to get his buddies, cause we wanted a fight.
5-10 minutes there was 7 shadows online and 4 blood titans.
they caught us at shirikan unbuffed - np. lets defend at some other op.
And at Krupp, there was only 7 of us. and the 10+ of BD (+ one tank noobhealing all the time + one biotech tank). It was a good fight tho BD had bigger numbers than us. But we won.

But like 99% of the time. if this one particular BD clan loses, they bring the whole faction. whats the point? If u lose, then u lose. Zerg is not a viable option. Or then you ppl have to learn how to lose.
And stop the bitching on tradechannel.

slaughteruall

11-07-04, 15:10

saturn TT though is a little odd, for the most part some TT runners help BD, i know there are close ties though between them coming from the old Templars that a few BD guys was in, still a little annoying but oh well.
Why is it odd? Maybe you dont know the whole story. Proving your ignorance again i think. BUt when 2 factions are being zerged by every other faction they tend to help each other out. That and BD and TT are neutral why should they fight?

I think come DOY the city on saturn will need more runners to counter the DOY, as it stands only really CM are present on the map, its mainly BD/FA/TG/TS/Crahn who are fighting over outposts, and of course the Mercs.
There you go trying to think again. As it stands now pro-city dont have enough fighters. there mostly tradeskillers.

CA/TT/DRE/PP/Next and Biotech are very much quiet, yet i do know TT and CA are there somewhere, just not that active in outposts, can't blame them though at its present state, maybe they stopped for the same reasons many have in the past few weeks.

No read above. They dont have the fighters. There dying factions.

On the note of TL healing being a valid tactic, is BS, you know full well when your enemy only has one PPU and you newb heal him/her then your enemy is gonna drop a few mins after, coz no ppu in this game means no fight, you know that.

I can survive a noob heal and i know others who can also. Noob shelter it's almost not worth the effort to run around.

Catholic School Girls will be returning for :BDOY

We have been Tangent since we started in beta (Albeit under the name 'True Family' in the past) and will continue to be Tangent when we return. We will rule under Castoff and we ask any other runner who knows deep down that a Tangent is the only way to go, to return to the hive-mind. Prove that Tangent can be the true dominant force it once was!

Sorry to tell you but CSG were never much of a force. All i ever saw out of them was ninja hacking while the rest of TT was fighthing the force. I've tried ruling (as you put it) next to and under castoff. I've had enough of it. I would like to see TT back on it's feet again. But i will not be returning to any clan with castoff in it. There are alot of people who feel the same way as i do.

Slaughter
former Templars head of war
currently Shadow Corps

Moscow

11-07-04, 15:23

i know for a fact that when doy comes out who ever has the stongest side city or anti city ... we will move to the weakest side.

Why not save yourself the time and change to pro-city now? It's bloody obvious anti-city will still be the strongest/largest side come BDOY.

Peace.

-Moscow

trigger hurt

11-07-04, 15:53

j0rz

11-07-04, 16:49

people used to say i was a faction hopper even thou i wasnt i just jumped from 2 bd clans it was a hard choice for me because i have so many friends in each clan and all the factions atleast until they found out mrs dru blood was my alt haha gogo MB raids :)

anyways im happy being in H.A.T.E BD faction just pk any one i fancy i love it even thou i havnt been on much as of late its still nice to log on for 15 mins once a week pk some people then log off :lol:

hope little terror has been holding the H.A.T.E name for us while j0rz.tnk has been away

peace guys n gals xxx :p

YoDa-UK

11-07-04, 17:42

Just wanted to quote a few people here, sort a few things out, try and be objective as i can be wishout slamming people on the forums.

Your clan and only 1 PPU?

Yeah, right.

It was pretty rare to see your clan only with 2 PPUs at an OP, let alone 1.

btw. I'm only talking about your fights with us, not with shadow or Blood Titans

At last count we had 3 PPU, one was full time -Cromac soulseeker- which the person behind the player has gone on work exp and won't be around much for 2 months as he might not be able to get NC on the computers he might be using. The 2nd PPU is Descent, but i've just heard he has lommed his PPU, which is bad news for us i guess, but nothing we can do about that, and lastly the 3rd PPU is Virual Angel, who hates to be a PPU and wants to use his tank/pe at fights. So now we don't really have a full time PPU, have to wait and see how we sort this one out.

yoda didnt you say you were leaving saturn? do it already i think every one on saturn is sick of you and your bullshit whining stories.

if your not happy go piss off else where, or do something about it IN GAME, not here.

When did i ever say i was leaving saturn? please find my post about that and put it here. I've not left saturn at all, infact ive been spreading my time over saturn/pluto/jupiter lately, but thats more of a case of saturn being a bit shit with its server problems and then of course ingame problems with BD.

@ Slaughter, your right i don't know the entire story behind what happened to Templars, when i was in that clan it seemed ok, Castoff was a fair enough leader and i think for the most part Eled and co lead the clan well enough in terms of fighting, i was Templars myself at one point with codename andromeda, my old m8 from pluto and SWG "shame he hasn't come back tbh" and i was on the receiving end of Templars/cartel when i was in TG, it was hard then too, the time between my leaving NC and returning i don't know the tale of Templars or Cartel, i came back to notice Templars gone and cartel basically reformed into Shadow Corps and a few of the TT guys in there, which would be expected tbh as templars fought alongside BD many times.

One line you say here which interests me

That and BD and TT are neutral why should they fight?

Its strange that you think coz you are neutral with TT that you are good faction friends, yet BD doesn't feel this way about any other faction on saturn, including so called allied factions like Crahn was "oh how i wish factions was not static."

Also i agree with you about pro city being mostly traders, thats true, and its like i said with DOY it won't be that much fun coz most of the active lot are anti city right now, i think it will take a few months before it settles down a bit and people change side, everyone will want to see DOY of course, thats only natural.

But you point out that all the pro city side right now are dying factions, before when you was in Templars would you say that they was the only real pro city clan doing the op scene? maybe there was some small clans elsewhere that Templars helped, but generally speaking Templars was the power there, and as such be moving a lot of Templars into anti city side, the power has completely gone anti city.

Dru mentioned about BD would goto the weakest side, there is a problem with that aswell, coz if all BD turn around and say go TT, the power will shift again, and it will end up being pro city having to many members, there is no limit on numbers in factions/clans which is a shame, but the game was never meant for that, and it was never meant for populations of 200 -> 300 at peak times either. You could argue the fact that if there was another 50 active players on the pro city side who all enjoyed PvP at the high lvl, then it might be different to fight BD, certainly more fun i would say.

But the real problem people who are against BD on saturn right now is the amount of people they face eachtime they fight, i do agree this is no fault of your own having so many in one clan, and you can't turn around and say to members "hey look they only got 6 online and are attacking our ops, but guys the other 10 of you can't come" coz thats not what they want to hear, i know the situation your in, i had smaller clans asking me to limit the number of people to bring to a fight when i was on pluto before, it just can't happen, and i inturn told them to reqruit more people.

We overlook the simple fact that there isn't anyone to recruit, either people don't want to fight "being traders" or that they have given up on the idea to fight BD or soon will.

Another friend of mine quit NC today, over all the trouble that has been on saturn with the recent videos and factions, he gave up and left, he didn't feel the need to give KK anymore money for the game when its in this much of a mess, a sad day to see anyone leave tbh.

Originally Post by Moscow
Why not save yourself the time and change to pro-city now? It's bloody obvious anti-city will still be the strongest/largest side come BDOY.

I disagree with this Moscow, i think atm on saturn the real power is with BD, be it 3 clans, they band together to make a strong faction, of course people could band together, you could get both FA clans and TG and Crahn working together under one clan to make a super clan and counter BD, but everyone knows the effects of a super clan on a server, its horrible and ends up ruining the fun for all sides.

Its the point of people all saying that BD have a lot of faction hoppers, the people who wants to join the biggest side so they don't lose, if BD go pro city with DOY, all the faction hoppers will join them too, regardless imho, which in turn doesn't solve the problem it only shifts it to the other side.

@Jorz, I'm sure Lil T is doing a fine job ;)

Xiphias

11-07-04, 17:46

[QUOTE=Sigma]Your clan and only 1 PPU?

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

It was pretty rare to see your clan only with 2 PPUs at an OP, let alone
[QUOTE/]

the clan you speak of, only has two full time ppus so i don't know where you get your figures for the amount of ppus your suggesting.

trigger hurt

11-07-04, 18:28

Its strange that you think coz you are neutral with TT that you are good faction friends, yet BD doesn't feel this way about any other faction on saturn, including so called allied factions like Crahn was "oh how i wish factions was not static."

Oh how soon they forget...

I'll tell you the Cartel/Shadow side of the story and hope the thread doesn't get closed...

Some of us were Twilight Gaurdian in New Dawn...some of us were already Black Dragon...but we were all tired of one thing specifically...I shouldn't have to name the clan...anyone on saturn would know exactly who they were.

Anyway, so we switch factions and Cartel is formed. I wasn't one of the very first members, but I was in the original inception of Cartel...which pissed me off when people called me a bandwagon hopper...considering I hacked the 1st layer on the 1st op Cartel ever owned. Anyway...back to the point.

Even after we formed, probably had about 20 active members who had 2 or 3 alts in the clan each (which is where the misconception of our high player count comes from...they're all alts people)...well...people always wanted to talk down to us because we were challenging TG/CM but leaving templars alone...people never seemed to like that we didn't fight Templars. Our reasoning was that 1. it would not benefit anyone, 2. they are neutral. Well, we start taking TG ops..goal was to knock em off the map...and it was pretty successful. Without New Dawn, TG was horrible.

Well, one day...we notice a layer go down at one of our 'critical' ops and we gather everyone together and head out. When we get there, we find TG, Crahn and PP all there...Now crahn and pp are able to run around inside the op because of our security settings and tg just mops up the stragglers. We repoke, regroup and lose the op in the meantime. We go to a neighboring op and gather...The group at the other outpost is apparently still waiting there so we head over to attack. Wipe the floor with em and it all starts.

Basically, for a while...any BD ally/neutral is KOS unless we list them on our clan forum as being clear. So begins the killing of all those people...and it still continues now. Cartel/Shadow kill anyone and everyone they see fit. It's not because they are assholes...it's because our so-called allies can't be trusted to use the territory we hold to level, call us buddies until they cap and then they turn and stab us in the back...take several of the pp/crahn clans currently on saturn...that's exactly what they did.

As for the reds helping greens...Cartel/Shadow are used to it...since CM used to help TG fight us all the time...it's nothing new.

YoDa-UK

11-07-04, 18:54

Well i must say, thank you for a refreshing post from a BD member, it was a pleasure to read it and finally get your side of it, some of it i already knew, yes the TG clan back in those days was a pain, i was TG also at the time and they created nothing but trouble, and i heard that was why a lot of X TG went to BD, fair enough reason for it in those days, but even you must admit BD has grown a lot since then.

With a server like saturn where almost everyone seems to have a alt in some other faction and so on, i can also understand why it is hard to trust someone who is meant to be a ally, this is how we felt in lost souls last month, we was friendly with BD to the point of helping shadow fight for ops, which is why we was a little shocked to say the least when we was being pked by certain members, and even when Cromac was talking to DG about it, it still went on, so obviously we felt that most of shadow at the time didn't care about it, hence why we got angry over it and switched to better defend outselves without SL/symp hit on our part.

I would like to hear from shadow though why they decided Crahn was to be KOS, and i don't just mean Lost souls either, i mean obviously we could not let others in Crahn be pked and killed and outposts taken why we did nothing, i do remember we was offered peace by Shadow at one point, but we was also told they would stil lbe attacking other crahn, how was we meant to react to that? Crahn had enough internal trouble without a outside allied faction killing us too, but thats another story.

I think the problem still stands, no one is willing to fight BD atm on their terms, no one wants to make a 2nd super faction/clan to counter it coz it would only screw over the server more than it is already, this i think is the reason why BD hold so many ops atm 24/7.

---------

Damn it i hate having two things going on at once, forgot what i was gonna post here now as i was talking to a friend on msn lol

Morganth

11-07-04, 19:14

What I find rediculous (sp?) about the whole Saturn clan situation is the fact the people can't stay in one place. There are a few clans which have always been a certain faction, but once they get to a certain size everyone jumps on the bandwagon, then it crumbles under its own weight. Then everyone moves to another faction and it happens again.

My CS clan (The Hidden Power) used to be "The Alliance" from DRE, which at the time was the only active DRE clan. We then moved over to CS because CA/FA were active on the map, and we wouldn't receive trouble from TG/BD anymore.

The first 2 months of being CS was great, we were OP waring with Cartel against CA/FA, had no trouble from anyone else, and the only people that gave us greif were factionless or had us KoS for some reason. Then Cartel became no more, and the Crahn clan AMR was formed from ex-Cartel members and others. AMR brought new life to CS and it was great working with them.

After about 3-4 weeks ShadoW was started up, and AMR was broken into two. One half went ShadoW, the other FR. Then there was a period where nothing happened until about a month ago, when an incident broke out inside Crahn which resulted in a civil war. After a series of negotiations everyone was at peace with each other and we were all fine.

Then the whole LS/ShadoW thing took place, and ShadoW decide to KoS all of Crahn. What pisses me off is yet again people automatically assume that just because they had a clash with one runner/clan, that the entire faction is to blame. ShadoW continue to cause trouble with Crahn, and my clan seems to be at the receiving end quite often.

Hopefully DoY will bring back old players and clans, so that the factions balance out a little more, as atm a few large clans pop up (take SoldierZ for example, they were doing well for about 3 weeks then disappeared. They have now moved to TT ironically) and die down again, there is a war, someone's brother's uncle's grandson's alt is killed and all of a sudden you don't know who to trust and who not to.

So much for people saying Saturn is "red = dead", as due to the political situation it is safe to say that regardless of your faction someone is gonna want to kill you, even if you are allied to them.

Sigma

11-07-04, 19:40

[...]At last count we had 3 PPU, one was full time -Cromac soulseeker- which the person behind the player has gone on work exp and won't be around much for 2 months as he might not be able to get NC on the computers he might be using. The 2nd PPU is Descent, but i've just heard he has lommed his PPU, which is bad news for us i guess, but nothing we can do about that, and lastly the 3rd PPU is Virual Angel, who hates to be a PPU and wants to use his tank/pe at fights. So now we don't really have a full time PPU, have to wait and see how we sort this one out.[...]

[...]
the clan you speak of, only has two full time ppus so i don't know where you get your figures for the amount of ppus your suggesting.
Oren Ishii

Cromac Soulseeker

Virtual Angel

Descent

Sexy JOEY L

Directly from your clanrooster, all of them PPUs (ofc 1 is away for 2 months and 1 is loming to pure Resist PSI :rolleyes: )

Still leaves you with 3 PPUs, not to mention the assload of APUs, which are enough to vaporize a whole Outpost... :wtf:

vs.

Daigotsu

Monster-Monk

JJPSI

Celas Victoria

Directly from our clanrooster.

100% of the time Daigotsu is on his PPU at opwars, Monster-Monk plays mostly his Meleetank and logs his PPU only rarely, JJPSI isn't that frequently online, and Celas Victoria is 75% of the time on his PPU the other 25% on his Rifle Spy.

so it comes down to 3 PPUs (leaving the loming and afk ones aside :rolleyes: ) on your side

vs.

1-2 (3 if we are lucky) PPUS on our side...

so plz stfu about "OMFG U GOT MORE PPUS BECAUSE OURS ARE LOMING!!!1"

It makes you look dumb :wtf:

tiikeri

11-07-04, 20:18

Sigma

11-07-04, 20:25

Jesus... u need to pull that monkey out of ur ass sigma..

have u ever heard that ppl might have REAL LIFEs too?

And have u ever heard about "main fighting character" ?

Oren, Virtual, are alts, not the main char. and ofc everybody would like to use their main chars, but thats not always possible.

And who the fuck even started this BS about ppus..
Atleast for my part.. i luv our ppus - theyr not as big number as many other clans have. but we live with that.
Oh, you want to know who started this BS about PPUs?

Simple, it was YoDa-UK :rolleyes:

and your people got RL? :eek:

*shock* *horror* *gasp*

Maybe, just maybe, we have RL, too... 8|

btw. want me to help pulling the monkey out of your ass? :rolleyes:

Darkener

11-07-04, 20:43

nice pissing contest / drag bd threw the dirt . Ya know maybe BD is becoming a band wagon i see it myself but what can i do to stop it plain and simply nothing , I fight hard you know alot of my guys do , maybe you pluto biatchs dont like the whole tl 3 heal well i suppose go back to pluto were its looked on as being a sin over on saturn its called a tactic.

You guys have at many times attacked two enemys and then when both clans turn up for a fight it is called a zerg , what you want us to take it in turns on coming for you . OP fighting has never been fair , If it all came down to numbers my clan would not be on the map our player base has generally remaind the same for a while , yes we have new people but they are replacements so our numbers of active op players has not changed . What do you truly expect , seriosly come up with a soultion OP's are a show of power how can i accomedate you what can i do differently , the other day there was 6-7 of a certain TSU clan on me i would deem that a zerg , what makes you any different from me or any in my clan and in my postion what would you do ???????

tiikeri

11-07-04, 22:53

dear mr Dark.

Did i say to u with our 7 ppl "zerg" at crest, that get ur buddies, cause we want a fight? And it was a good fight, even tho we we're caught unbuffed and killed. But we defended the second time, and boy that was fun.
I'm really sorry that we couldn't stay there to take the second attempt of yours - cause RL > NC.

But i really give u grattitude for showing sportsman behaviour and not taking all our OPs.

And about the TL3 healing.. some ppl says that its a "valid tactic" - i consider it as exploit. And like u said to me, u don't like it either.

And what counts for "zerg". I think its when the opposite side has like 2vs1 or 3vs1 numbers. whats the point taking 5 guys out with 15? Or 30 vs 10?
Even with equal skills and equal teamwork, the 5 guys wont win. If the 15 ppl screws up, then they might lose.

Oh yeah.. just caught a flashback from one fight at Fosters..... how many BDs there were? atleast 15+, more than 5 apus, 5ppus, 5 tanks - against what? 1 tank and ppu ;) Wannabe and Cromac. ( and I lasted there for atleast 10minutes :)

And if somebody didn't know. I'm Wannabe.
Some ppl thinks that i'm a cunt,asshole,BS-talker etcetc.. But usually only when i'm offended, zerged, bitched, or being talked bullshit about somethings (etc. tradechannel BS). But if u try to chitchat with me with friendly tone, u might see i'm not that kinda dickhead u think.

BTW: sorry dark for friday, i was really tired, but catch that NF later will we :)

YoDa-UK

11-07-04, 23:26

*pulling names out of my arse*

Oren Ishii is a alt of someone who plays mainly pluto, from time to time comes onto our coms and joins the fight.

Crom like i said is going to another country soon, i do hope he can get a computer sorted out and some NC time over there in Tel Aviv (sp?)

Descent for some unknown reason has lommed, to what yet i don't know, either hybrid or apu, but only caught a little of it over msn.

Sexy Joey L is the PPU of New Beee the apu from lost souls, he still hasn't changed to TS as yet, but most of the time he plays his APU, so this is where you will see the 2 factions/clans thing come up that you like to mention, one guy from LS ;) nad if you see Joey there its coz we either don't have PPU's enough or his APU died as we might need an extra PPU as backup.

Virtual Angel is a alt but lately is being pushed into PPU'ing for us, not just in op or pking sessions but also for lvling, which is not a great thing to keep asking him for, he would also like to play his other chars which he does from time to time, the pistol PE called Radium and he has a melee tank which i forget the name of it.

Anyway we ask a lot of our PPU's, we don't always have as many as we would like and certainly gone are the days when one PPU could take care of a team of 10 people in a fight, these days it seems you need a min of 2.

Anyway

so plz stfu about "OMFG U GOT MORE PPUS BECAUSE OURS ARE LOMING!!!1"

It makes you look dumb

Sorry but that makes you look slightly stupid, i know i say a lot in my posts, but its clear you don't read it all.

Anyway going back on topic i think here, we can argue this thread back and forth all week and all month, but neither side will back down on what they feel is right or wrong, and so it will go on, there are a few BD who maybe read this and think a bit, certainly there must be some people in BD who think that allied faction killing and such seems a waste of time, but they are the few out of the many.

I took a little step back tonight and had a think about the situation on saturn, and tbh its very sad, not just about BD but all factions tbh, i truely feel KK need to lock down factions, in a way that all 4 chars should remain in one faction only, or with DOY you are one side or the other, no inner factions.

Reason i say this is coz many times people have posted in this thread, but also other posts over time, that people faction hop, and people KOS one faction due to one runner and so on.

In truth factions right now mean nex to nothing on saturn, you piss off one player on there and before you know it you could end up having a entirely different faction killing you, and why? coz the dead runner was a alt of someone else.

Other games like Planetside "as an example here" got it right, if you join one faction on the server all your chars you make have to be that same faction, also they limit the number of a faction on any given continent, which is a great idea, as it doesn't allow for one side to be to powerful while the fight is going on, it makes for better battles that way i reckon.

A shame that KK don't enforce a limit on runners in one faction, and also that your account be tied to one single faction for the first runner you made. They could do it of course as the game stands right now, with low populations it wouldn't be to hard i think, only problem then would be those that had to leave a faction and such, would maybe pick another faction that was allied and then you would have the same problem, bah what is the solution?

How can we adapt to create a more fun environment for all players? when will the day come when you get a DM from your enemy saying "good fight"?

Anyone got an answer?

ezza

11-07-04, 23:27

the thing that pisses me off now is that lot of lost souls gone TS which is crahn enemy, however some of LS are still crahn.

now i understand that both fight along side at ops.

well i for one cant do that, i wont fight along with my enemies.

so then if i kill a Adult inc(or whatever name) do i become there fore KoS to other crahn.

as someone said saturn is far more than red = dead, theres a intricate web of loyalties and betrayal going on and its hard to know what to do

edit: this aint a shot at LS/AI i understand there reasoning for moving so dont take this as that

YoDa-UK

11-07-04, 23:36

trigger hurt

11-07-04, 23:42

It's funny that someone mentions Lost Souls leaving crahn and going tsunami because I was talking to someone on pluto the other day who stated that the majority of Madji are in FFD. Can't remember the guys name...anyway...

The things you guys are now discussing have nothing to do with people hopping factions. If you want to stop people from joining one side because it's strong, then you have to impose restrictions that someone isn't going to like and it may make them quit.

Either way, you are going to have to fix the issue. Personally, I kinda like pluto the way it is right now. If I kill someone, I don't have to worry about their alt from an allied faction coming to kill me. Either their clan will come and take care of me or they will come back on an alt that is in the same clan as their other chars. There's none of the typical "spy on that other faction" crap that you see on saturn.

tiikeri

11-07-04, 23:43

@Ezza

So far what we have been speaking with Crahn clans, they have accepted what we do.

The only thing is Pepperpark. If Crahn attacks me or any Adult Inc. we retaliate. But personally - if crahn doesn't attack me i won't attack them.

And i if some red ppl doesn't want to fight i'm not forcing them to fight.
/emote sex to one BD ppu ;)

And sometimes i just like to watch ppl fighting. I was really surprised one day last week.. i standed like 10minutes in PP while there was 10 or more ppl fighting, red,white and green to me. and no one attacked me. It was fun to just watch ppl fighting. and after 10 mins some desperate PE tried to shoot me with his libby, and i just ran away to plaza. And cheerd it for my pals on vent.. imagine.. 10minutes :)

trigger hurt

11-07-04, 23:46

ezza

11-07-04, 23:48

yeah thats cool Ezza, i hear where your coming from, if you attack a Adult inc member, you won't get any come back from LS over it, i still got chars in LS but i rarely use em tbh, i only moved my monk Draego and my melee tank Anima into Adult Inc as the sole purpose for Adult Inc was to be able to fight back against BD and not take sL/Symp hits to use, it also makes it easier to fight red instead of green.

If you see a LS guy/s with us when we fight, its mainly New Beee as he is a lazy ass who has not yet changed over, its rare to see other LS with us as those that left to create Adult Inc was the main bunch of fighters we had, plus a few other people from FFD have joined us in Adult Inc as we seem to be more of a active clan in fighting than others.

quick question though, you got your monk in your crahn clan, but when your on your BD tank do you kill crahn? or vice versa?

How do you feel about BD fighting Crahn, two meant to be allies? i mean BD say that FA have plenty of fighters, and certainly CM got enough, so why did BD decide Crahn was on the KOS list, more so as a lot of Crahn helped BD before this all blew up.

ah cool, good to know.

nah i never attack crahn on any of my chars, ive been in PP with unforgiven a number of times, and they give me no problems i give them no probs.

tbh the BD fighting CS, i have no idea, ive never had the problem really they left my clan alone as i was affiliated with cartel/shadow and Yamma was/is on good terms with those guys as well.

its not like the TG alliance thing can be called into it anymore as i dont really here of crahn helping TG.

ive always been morefor BD as allie than TG, TG treated crahn as bitches, were BD never.

oh there was one occasions where FoC(with me on BD tank) didnt get attacked by BD(not shadow)however that was a umm misunderstanding, both factions going for same op not knowing what to do and both going for the guns kinda thing.

id rather the BD and CS problem was resolved, i left shadow because if it as it was a conflict of interest on my part and wasnt down with other CS members reffering to FoC as Shadow just cos one member happened to be in both(regardless of peoples though on having members in diffrent clans)

Edit: on a side note, thanks mods for allowing this kinda of thread to now exist, we all been fairly well behaved so to show we can discuss in game without endless flaming :)

@Ezza

So far what we have been speaking with Crahn clans, they have accepted what we do.

The only thing is Pepperpark. If Crahn attacks me or any Adult Inc. we retaliate. But personally - if crahn doesn't attack me i won't attack them.

And i if some red ppl doesn't want to fight i'm not forcing them to fight.
/emote sex to one BD ppu

And sometimes i just like to watch ppl fighting. I was really surprised one day last week.. i standed like 10minutes in PP while there was 10 or more ppl fighting, red,white and green to me. and no one attacked me. It was fun to just watch ppl fighting. and after 10 mins some desperate PE tried to shoot me with his libby, and i just ran away to plaza. And cheerd it for my pals on vent.. imagine.. 10minutes
i understand if you were on a TS char you would retaliate, however would you log a Crahn alt(if you have one) and fight me with him?

lol i often leave enemy ppus be in PP, as long as they do nothing to me

YoDa-UK

12-07-04, 00:07

Originally Post by Trigger Hurt
In my opinion, most of the people who are in those crahn clans that Shadow are killing are people who were from TG/CM/FA or TS that wanted to be able to genrep around and kill BD at the same time. That is my experiences with most of them, anyway.

Hmm im not sure about other crahn clans, but i know for sure that Lost souls was not X TG/CM/FA or TS, those in Lost Souls was crahn for a long time, they was older crahn clans that ended up merging over time, if you ask Cromac Soulseeker about it he can fill you in on the history of it, he has been Crahn for a long time and in fact hated the move to TS, but knew we had no choice.

If Shadow or other BD had problems with certain players from TG and such moving to Crahn then they should have spoken about it to the Crahn clan leaders, maybe then a more peaceful solution could have been found like those runners not being allowed in any of the clans in Crahn, would of been easier i think.

But lets not splits hairs, if they went to war over that, then why lately has FR split up and some gone to BD and joined them there, when a few before im sure when BD raided the TG base FR would have defended it from them, so enemy one week and now clan m8's the next, wierd o_O

I too would like to see this problem between Crahn and BD sorted out once and for all, the only problem though is there are some trigger happy runners in both sides that would carry it on regardless, which is always a problem, a lot of hurt has gone down in the past month which would be hard to repair without time.

Personaly if BD made peace with Crahn and left it at that, i would return to lost souls and im certain the rest of Adult Inc would as well and we would resume our fights against CM/FA like we had before, you know we even have a NAP with 2 FA clans atm while we try and fight BD, they know we are X-LS guys, but respect what we are trying to do and give us some breathing room, which is cool.

It must be a pain in the arse for you though Ezza, on one side your listening to BD faction chat about Crahn, then when you log onto your Crahn monk you head shit going on about BD over faction chat there, how wrong is that? its a mess is what it is, how would you fix it ?

tiikeri

12-07-04, 00:25

Morganth

12-07-04, 00:36

Hmm im not sure about other crahn clans, but i know for sure that Lost souls was not X TG/CM/FA or TS, those in Lost Souls was crahn for a long time, they was older crahn clans that ended up merging over time, if you ask Cromac Soulseeker about it he can fill you in on the history of it, he has been Crahn for a long time and in fact hated the move to TS, but knew we had no choice.

=THP= is made up of ex-DRE runners and UnforgiveN I believe has been BD then CA before moving over to Crahn.

However I would like to see the BD/CS issue resolved as tbh if CA/FA/TS get there act together then I think it will give ShadoW a run for its money as I know that FA is tightly knit and help each other out frequently. But until then, it seems that anywhere I go on any of my runners I don't know if a ShadoW runner is gonna attack me or just say "Hi". It seems some aren't interested in fighting greens, whereas others enjoy it.

tiikeri

12-07-04, 00:44

Morganth

12-07-04, 00:47

I'd like to see more reasons why this inconvience between Crahn and BD is going?

Same, as I have been on the receiving end of the KoSing quite a fair bit. Doesn't help that the ingame forums are blank, as I think there were quite a few threads concerning the issue originally.

ezza

12-07-04, 00:55

I would really like to know all the history of Crahn clans
heh well ill give you the FoC run down.

beginning of retail, clan was started by Rhyne, think about 2 weeks after that i was brought into the clan, for long time we were the only crahn clan apart from Path of crahn(a 3 man clan) we built the clan up despite not many crahns being around and get a good core of members, we used to fight FA(eoe mostly) however after a few months, we had a few go inactive(i had a spell with MiG)then it was decided we would go mercs(made Mercs of Destruction) though yamma stayed behind and continued the clan.

after a little while the merc clan broke down people left and only 2 or 3 were active i went BD, joined titans, left for my own reason then not long after joined Cartel, towards the end of cartels reign a number of FoC became active again so i returned.

thats a brief overview of a almost 2 year old clan lol

yoda, as for the BD CS prob, im really not sure how to approach it though about it a few times, but shadow aint a normal clan in the scence they dont keep control over the members.

if problems broke out between LS and FoC, a bit of talking and we could proberbly solve it, im not sure the BD prob could be solved so easy.

there are BDs who listen to reason, then there are those who dont lol

*goes to ponder some more*

Darkener

12-07-04, 01:05

i dunno this shit should be cut you know its getting so personal going beyond the game . Thats all it is a game you know i respect a good enemy , a good fight but shit like this post i don't like it inspires the worst in people , the pissing contest's im greater than that guy my clan is better than this clan and so on . This shit effects in game and how we view others after a post like this because im BD i will be viewed as an asshole without anyone really knowing who i am, i fight because i like oping and for my friends nothing else. Why am i different than anyone else because im BD, from this post i gather my clan is a bunch of tl 3 ing newbs only on the map because of numbers but this is not true .

To hold the map some level of skill has to be involved the faction the clan i am is generally based on pvp because hey look at the f6 list of enemys i have , all the major fighting factions can be listed as red .So why not whine some more organise your zergs mutlti faction do away with my clan do away with the faction , but what then what will you do different to what my clan has done ??? .

tiikeri

12-07-04, 01:08

Well ty ezza for the information u gave :)

I know that BD has issues keeping the guys true to what their leaders say.

For atleast what i have hearded, particular BD clans leaders really tried to keep their members not to kill Crahns, but still.. everyday we heard that some of our members was pkd by this particular clan.

It really buggers me off. Cause what (atleast most) of LS / Adults always ask some higher rank, what to do with ppl, even reds. And so far i know, they are true to what leaders say.

Edit: not to make a double post.

Dark. let me straight this TL3 issue. PPL so far i have encountered with 2 BDs doing the TL3 healing. and not to give any names or clans here, just saying that the 2 guys werent in the same clan.

And for you saying that this is not good idea posting stuff here, i can't understand. So far most of the ppl has been behaving well, and discussing it over OOC is impossible cause there's always some guys starting the "OMG STFU U NIB"-spamming. Or then chatting in Trade... *duh* i say.

- Wannabe

Morganth

12-07-04, 01:14

It really buggers me off. Cause what (atleast most) of LS / Adults always ask some higher rank, what to do with ppl, even reds. And so far i know, they are true to what leaders say.

Same with my clan. We have guidelines as to who to KoS, who to leave be, and what to do when some 'tard kills you in cold blood or whatnot. How a member of a clan acts in response to his/her leader's decision is what gives the clan a reputation.

Sigma

12-07-04, 01:30

_o/ would go to back to crahn with my fighting chars right away if the situation between BD - CS would be solved.

I started as Crahn and still i have only my 2 fighting chars in Adult inc.
Wannabe and Whos yo daddy? But in OPs u mainly can see Wannabe cause he's my main char. I suck apuing i admit, but its fun to go to PP with Daddy, and not GRing right away when having red SL.. like today i was there until i hit the -33 SL.. and like the missions are now.. i think he's screwd for while :)

But it was fun.
do 2 quick missions to get it down to -31, then leave him logged, u should reach -15 after 1 night.

just a quick question, what do you want us BD to do against the current "issues" on saturn?

and FYI we (fu) KoSed the whole of crahn because some crahns were hacking some of our ops (no I don't mean LS)

but I'm going to tell my m8s that they should keep the crahn killing at bay for a while.

at least only attack if attacked first

Morganth

12-07-04, 01:32

and FYI we (fu) KoSed the whole of crahn because some crahns were hacking some of our ops (no I don't mean LS)

but I'm going to tell my m8s that they should keep the crahn killing at bay for a while.

at least only attack if attacked first

1) Why KoS the whole of Crahn if you know who was hacking your OPs? Why not just KoS them? This is what pisses me off the most, its that people KoS a whole faction for one group's mistake.

2) Thanks, generally I don't think Crahn attacks BD unless provoked/someone hasn't got the NAP message.

trigger hurt

12-07-04, 01:33

I would really like to know all the history of Crahn clans.
What is known (atleast for me):
THP - ex-DRE.
Lost Souls - ex-Bot what merged with couple smaller Crahn clans. like DW/DG. -> Adult Inc.
FoC - as far as i know has been Crahn for ages - correct me if i'm wrong.
Unforgiven - Used to be atleast CA.
Madji = ?

I know some reasons and a bit history of BD - Crahn, and thanks to one leader of BD, and those couple nice chitchat sessions :)
but really. I'd like to see more reasons why this inconvience between Crahn and BD is going?

THP - Never saw em before a few days ago

Lost Souls - Ex Bot, mostly...some of us havent forgotten their assistance to the "Carebear Connection"

FoC - The only real Crahn Clan, imo. Usually don't help one ally over another ally.

Unforgiven - Faction hoppers to the extreme. Once were TT, left TT to go BD when Cartel got strong cause they thought Templars were going to fall, went back to TT when Cartel formed a NAP with Templars. Some of the ones who went BD stayed BD but rarely play. Some eventually left TT and went City Admin, but still assisted TG/Crahn against Cartel. Sometimes assisted Cartel against TG/Crahn...these guys really never could make up their minds.

Madji, as I said are apparently mostly FFD for are Tsunami. So they get to be enemies of Shadow one day and bestest buddies the next.

Morganth

12-07-04, 01:35

THP - Never saw em before a few days ago

Been around since Easter. However due to the whole "jump into the large clan" idea people get we have difficulty recruiting.

And like FoC we don't help one ally over another, so if BD was fighting TG, we wouldn't assist either.

tiikeri

12-07-04, 01:40

heh Sigma..

i would do just a couple missions to get it down.. but i can't cause the mission thingy is fucked up atm as u prolly know :)

But its nice to get a nice post from u too.

I dont really know the deepest reasons for the BD - Crahn war but I would really like to get it solved. Atleast until DOY comes out. Cause if we want to play the game like it was designed, Crahns and BDs should be allies as the f6 table shows, but it hasn't been it.

If you neverever to discuss the matter then just DM Wannabe with friendly tone and if i have time i'm willing for small chitchat. I would say "Talk to crommy", but due that fact that he has great opportunity to get really good job experience in foreign country so I truly hope the best for him. And due to this he has named me to lead Adult Inc. and by that i assume i'll be doing politics for LS too (well atleast mainly me). Also the other co-leaders are allowed to do the politics too ( to get the burden of my back :) )

Best wishes to Crommy :) we all <3 u :)

- Wannabe

Edit:@trigger Afaik, madji is not FFD. FFD = FF from pluto, and they are on saturn to fight BD. And cause FFD is more or less inactive, the active players joined Adult to get some action.

Sigma

12-07-04, 01:45

1) Why KoS the whole of Crahn if you know who was hacking your OPs? Why not just KoS them? This is what pisses me off the most, its that people KoS a whole faction for one group's mistake.[...]
The problem is, who are you going to KoS when everyday another Crahn-Clan attacks you?

I/We had to make a decision, and as a Leader you should know that some decisions aren't always pleasant ones :\

trigger hurt

12-07-04, 01:47

Sigma

12-07-04, 01:51

heh Sigma..

i would do just a couple missions to get it down.. but i can't cause the mission thingy is fucked up atm as u prolly know :)

But its nice to get a nice post from u too.[...]
I would've said "Do some Anarchy Breed missions", but then I remembered that was on Venus. -.-

But as u can see I'm not a total asshat.

just a half asshat. :O

tiikeri

12-07-04, 01:52

hmm.. well thats what i know.
Atleast the ex-FFDs on vent, i'm almost 99% positive that most of their alts are in Adult or LS, if not then they are trade skillers in either own clan, or some tradeskiller clan.

But thats just what i know, and have met. I also know that some FFDs has moved to BD to mostly peekay :) but i havent really talked with those guys.

Morganth

12-07-04, 01:52

The problem is, who are you going to KoS when everyday another Crahn-Clan attacks you?

I/We had to make a decision, and as a Leader you should know that some decisions aren't always pleasant ones :\

I understand from that point of view, but why not KoS on a clan-by-clan basis, and warn people of the faction. When CS had trouble with Phoenix Mercs we KoSed them, but then other clans started helping out, then unclanned CM runners so we decided to be wary of all CM runners. Now we don't have any trouble because of this kind of agreement.

tiikeri

12-07-04, 01:55

But as u can see I'm not a total asshat.

just a half asshat. :O

LOL :) My opinion is that everybody is a dickhead - atleast sometime :)
I have my weak moments, everybody has :)

retr0n

12-07-04, 02:04

Well wannabe, that would be swell and all, but a former FF from pluto told me that they were madji...i can't remember his name, was in dm in-game.

Madji what?

When pluto starting hitting rock bottom and there was noone to fight we
thought we would make a clan on saturn and fight Cartel a bit, just to have
something to do when not fighting on pluto. Due to the dropping pop. op-wars
were getting more and more rare.

After a while more and more pluto people (mainly FF) joined us but as soon
as we had lvled up to an op-fighting capability Cartel split. This was around
the same time I had shitloads of exams in school and other RL stuff that
prevented (sp?) me from playing NC. I was gone for about a month / month
and a half.

When i had returned to play again i had heard that most of FFD (FF) had gone
inactive because there was nothing to do in the game anymore. A few days
later i got in touch with some of the members and apparently not all of them
had left, but they had joined (merged) with Adult Inc.

The clan FFD is not active in any way. The active members of FFD are now in
Adult Inc. The members left in the clan FFD are all inactive. You may see them
every now and then but that's only when they pop in to say hi etc. They dont
actually play neocron anymore.

I dont know what Madji is though. Never ever heard of it before. If it's a clan
then FFD is not Madji.

Sigma

12-07-04, 02:04

I understand from that point of view, but why not KoS on a clan-by-clan basis, and warn people of the faction. When CS had trouble with Phoenix Mercs we KoSed them, but then other clans started helping out, then unclanned CM runners so we decided to be wary of all CM runners. Now we don't have any trouble because of this kind of agreement.
The problem was, that at that time most of us were pretty pissed about the "Crahnsituation" as a whole, so I made a decision which may have been wrong in the long run, but what's done is done.

Anyways, the situation went back to a normal level, and I haven't heard of any "Crahnincidents" lately.

tiikeri

12-07-04, 02:16

Sigma

12-07-04, 02:28

Tell me ur opinion sigma.

Could that be because Adult Inc. is giving BD some other things to think rather than crahn?

Atleast thats what we intend to. Cause Crahn and BD are allied factions, we want to take ur attention to some place else, so that there would be atleast in some point in some time alliance again between BD and Crahn.

Well until DoY :) DoY might change the faction relations.

- Wannabetbh, I have no clue, haven't played saturn for like 3-4 days now.

but it seems that with the appearance of AI Crahn went kinda inactive, well except the odd LS who hasn't switched to AI, but that could be just my imagination.

Edit: gonna start playing saturn again, lomed back to Kami yesterday.
Gonna give it a try. :x

tiikeri

12-07-04, 02:32

Yea well.. the most active ppl, the core fighters of LS moved to AI, so the rest who sticked with LS, are mostly lvling etc. Tbh.. LS has so many inactive players that you can't even imagine it :)

But its a bit shame that Crahn has been quite inactive lately, dunno the reason.. perhaps summer holidays etc? Like mine.. i had 4 weeks holiday.. and now.. i'm at work.. first day after that huge holiday :)

ezza

12-07-04, 02:49

lol dunno my clans gone inactive though im back, playing my spy, theres a lot of dumb mercs who need killing

awkward silence

12-07-04, 10:12

']1) Yes there must be tons of ppl like Ezza who are BD becouse they just like the faction or have friends in there, or whatever.

But i guess 50% of the BDs today or more, are faction Hoopers, they cant stand a fare fight.

2) BDs dont even have a HQ to raid, so its fun as you can do as you wish with MB or TG then go back neo and stay safe.

3) I bet 70% or more of the people who choose a faction arent even trying to RP their chars.

4) Nobody likes to loose, so lets choose the winner side :)

Myself well i was unclanned since a week ago or so, then i look at the server balance, and think, BD is the winning team, well lets go TG then, so now im trying to RP a TG Runner.

Even when i fight agaisnt the odds sometimes, it still is TONS more fun to fight 5 vs me, than being 5 vs you.

Its just what i think, remember i was FA before, and i changed to balance the server, but its just me, some ppl think different.

Now i meet good people in TG, so im planning to stay.
AMEN !!!!!!!!

awkward silence

12-07-04, 10:21

Oh how soon they forget...

I'll tell you the Cartel/Shadow side of the story and hope the thread doesn't get closed...

Some of us were Twilight Gaurdian in New Dawn...some of us were already Black Dragon...but we were all tired of one thing specifically...I shouldn't have to name the clan...anyone on saturn would know exactly who they were.

Anyway, so we switch factions and Cartel is formed. I wasn't one of the very first members, but I was in the original inception of Cartel...which pissed me off when people called me a bandwagon hopper...considering I hacked the 1st layer on the 1st op Cartel ever owned. Anyway...back to the point.

Even after we formed, probably had about 20 active members who had 2 or 3 alts in the clan each (which is where the misconception of our high player count comes from...they're all alts people)...well...people always wanted to talk down to us because we were challenging TG/CM but leaving templars alone...people never seemed to like that we didn't fight Templars. Our reasoning was that 1. it would not benefit anyone, 2. they are neutral. Well, we start taking TG ops..goal was to knock em off the map...and it was pretty successful. Without New Dawn, TG was horrible.

Well, one day...we notice a layer go down at one of our 'critical' ops and we gather everyone together and head out. When we get there, we find TG, Crahn and PP all there...Now crahn and pp are able to run around inside the op because of our security settings and tg just mops up the stragglers. We repoke, regroup and lose the op in the meantime. We go to a neighboring op and gather...The group at the other outpost is apparently still waiting there so we head over to attack. Wipe the floor with em and it all starts.

Basically, for a while...any BD ally/neutral is KOS unless we list them on our clan forum as being clear. So begins the killing of all those people...and it still continues now. Cartel/Shadow kill anyone and everyone they see fit. It's not because they are assholes...it's because our so-called allies can't be trusted to use the territory we hold to level, call us buddies until they cap and then they turn and stab us in the back...take several of the pp/crahn clans currently on saturn...that's exactly what they did.

As for the reds helping greens...Cartel/Shadow are used to it...since CM used to help TG fight us all the time...it's nothing new.

One of the first reasonable post from ''you guys'' and i thank you for that.
Allthough i believe most of the ppl in bd are faction hoppers.
If you guys fight with about the same numbers its fun (like yesterday) but mostly its just sad.

YoDa-UK

12-07-04, 12:27

phew just caught up on the last few pages, you guys can write lol.

Anyway thank you Sigma for replying back with better taste, i shall do the same to you as well, and also thank you mods for allowing this to keep going, i feel so far we the players are doing pretty well in keeping this clean.

Ok i can't quote the last 3 pages coz these forums won't allow that :(

Sigma, I'm glad you have decided to let your clan know to hold off on Crahn for the time being, thats a great move and certainly im sure Crahn people will be happy to hear one BD clan giving it another try, of course there is no need to be great buddies and such, just no more killings is a great step forward.

For now lets forget the past between FU KOS and Crahn and move forward, all we need now is the other 2 large BD clans to step forward and do the same.

@Ezza, your right, there is a lot of mercs need a good spanking, also FA too, which cna be counted as enemy for both Crahn and BD.

I think though as the game stands, KK are not doing enough with the current story line to reflect the approach of DOY, there are to many anti city factions who are at war with eachother, and certainly pro city factions who are at the very least neutral with eachother. This is where problems come from, you have Crahn allied to TG and BD, yet TG and BD are enemy to eachother, FA are allied to TG yet at war with Crahn, and TS are enemy to Crahn and BD.

I think a move needs to be made to at the least make said enemies neutral to eachother, and go from there, and also at the same time the neutral pro city needs to be enemy to anti city. MJS has said it himself, there will be effectively 2 empires, of course with factions in them, but there will be a clear line drawn between "us and them"

Which is why right now efforts need to be made to repair dmg done between factions.

I know the faction system as it stands is a difficult one to adjust, but surely we should over the next few weeks see some changes towards the neocronicle and VoTr ?

Anyway going back to the point, If Blood Titans and Shadow can follow the same direction that Sigma has shown with FU KOS clan towards Crahn, then at least part of the mess on saturn can be sorted out and Adult Inc can go back to LS in peace, and we can resume our efforts against CM :)

winnoc

12-07-04, 12:32

*Reloading ammo packs in the Rhinobarrel*

*Sniffs and moves hand under his nose*

"Come on, let's rock baby" :-)

ezza

12-07-04, 13:25

*Reloading ammo packs in the Rhinobarrel*

*Sniffs and moves hand under his nose*

"Come on, let's rock baby" :-)
ironically your clan is the only clan so far i havnt had problems with :lol:

winnoc

12-07-04, 14:01

Don't know, i frequent BD and other areas more in my rhino, the only sniper i've seen near mb lately was one i took a screenshot of, exploiting on the highest hill, left of the mb exit. (name removed) NS stealthing hitman, TG.

trigger hurt

12-07-04, 14:12

Madji what?

When pluto starting hitting rock bottom and there was noone to fight we
thought we would make a clan on saturn and fight Cartel a bit, just to have
something to do when not fighting on pluto. Due to the dropping pop. op-wars
were getting more and more rare.

After a while more and more pluto people (mainly FF) joined us but as soon
as we had lvled up to an op-fighting capability Cartel split. This was around
the same time I had shitloads of exams in school and other RL stuff that
prevented (sp?) me from playing NC. I was gone for about a month / month
and a half.

When i had returned to play again i had heard that most of FFD (FF) had gone
inactive because there was nothing to do in the game anymore. A few days
later i got in touch with some of the members and apparently not all of them
had left, but they had joined (merged) with Adult Inc.

The clan FFD is not active in any way. The active members of FFD are now in
Adult Inc. The members left in the clan FFD are all inactive. You may see them
every now and then but that's only when they pop in to say hi etc. They dont
actually play neocron anymore.

I dont know what Madji is though. Never ever heard of it before. If it's a clan
then FFD is not Madji.
I'm only stating what someone on pluto told me. If I could remember his name, I'd post it...but he was in FF.

trigger hurt

12-07-04, 14:31

1) Yes there must be tons of ppl like Ezza who are BD becouse they just like the faction or have friends in there, or whatever.

But i guess 50% of the BDs today or more, are faction Hoopers, they cant stand a fare fight.

What some folks still don't seem to get into their skulls is that those of us who were the reason that BD became strong aren't the ones you should be hurling your insults at. I've seen people ganked and rez killed simply because they were talking smack to the wrong people and they didn't even know what they were talking about. Just spouting off crap. There are a few of us left that were part of the original power struggle for BD, and we're here because we earned it.

2) BDs dont even have a HQ to raid, so its fun as you can do as you wish with MB or TG then go back neo and stay safe.

We have an HQ to raid. There was an RP Tsunami clan that raided it several times before...but because the rest of you either don't know how to RP or just refuse to, they left. They play on pluto now. And they have people there who actually RP with them.

3) I bet 70% or more of the people who choose a faction arent even trying to RP their chars.

I bet you are right. Because there is nothing in this game...no mechanic, no rule, nothing that forces a person to stay in character. If there was, you would see a player count that is even lower than it is now.

4) Nobody likes to loose, so lets choose the winner side :)

My 2 main chars have left BD. I only log onto my BD char when there is an op fight. Mainly, this is because I don't like the hassle that comes along with being Black Dragon. I've been there since the start, like I said...but I still get called a bandwagon hopper, an asshole and many other great names, some of which could get people banned for harrassment, but instead i just mute everything but clan chat and go about my business. My other 2 chars are BioTech. When was the last time you saw BioTech on the map?

Myself well i was unclanned since a week ago or so, then i look at the server balance, and think, BD is the winning team, well lets go TG then, so now im trying to RP a TG Runner.

Excellent. I am glad you found a new home. Back when I was TG, the Canyon was a great place, but some other TG ruined that for me and It will never be the same again.

Even when i fight agaisnt the odds sometimes, it still is TONS more fun to fight 5 vs me, than being 5 vs you.

I'm glad you enjoy that. But to me, fighting "against the odds" is begging for "damage to my implants". I don't like the downtime of getting poked, reorganizing my inventory, putting my armor back on and the giggle some jackass gives cause he killed a "big, bad Black Dragon"...so I fight in a group...if that group is overpowering...then it's served it's purpose.

Its just what i think, remember i was FA before, and i changed to balance the server, but its just me, some ppl think different.

The server balance never stayed out of kilter long enough for it to be affected by FA. Ya shoulda stayed there.

YoDa-UK

12-07-04, 16:22

I'm glad you enjoy that. But to me, fighting "against the odds" is begging for "damage to my implants". I don't like the downtime of getting poked, reorganizing my inventory, putting my armor back on and the giggle some jackass gives cause he killed a "big, bad Black Dragon"...so I fight in a group...if that group is overpowering...then it's served it's purpose.

Isn't that double standards, you hate being outnumbered, who doesn't, and you hate downtime, imps being broken, needing to find tradeskill players and the endless list that ties in with downtime in this game, yet you don't mind being in a large group and outnumbering your enemy to impose the exact same thing on them ?

:wtf:

trigger hurt

12-07-04, 17:55

Isn't that double standards, you hate being outnumbered, who doesn't, and you hate downtime, imps being broken, needing to find tradeskill players and the endless list that ties in with downtime in this game, yet you don't mind being in a large group and outnumbering your enemy to impose the exact same thing on them ?

:wtf: Of course it's a double standard. When two enemies come together for a fight, someone is going to do...im going to use every legal advatage in the book to make sure that person is not me. Since when is any fight fair? Your wasted time is not important to me...my wasted time is.

Btw, i never said I hated being outnumbered. I don't like to be, but shit happens. On saturn, shit happens often. Some of those folks who complain about it need to get over it.

nobby

12-07-04, 18:34

could i just say something about that "ninja hacking"
they don't normally do it to piss you off, they do it when they have time.
their peak time of playing might be a time when all you american gimps are in bed. us british men aint going to wait until 4:00am for you to wake up so you can do your war are we?
so im just getting tired of seeing this all the time.....and there is your answer!

now i want you to sit down and think about what you have said.
if you love your OP sooooo much, just stick a bloody load of turrets in then!

YoDa-UK

12-07-04, 20:05

Of course it's a double standard. When two enemies come together for a fight, someone is going to do...im going to use every legal advatage in the book to make sure that person is not me. Since when is any fight fair? Your wasted time is not important to me...my wasted time is.

Btw, i never said I hated being outnumbered. I don't like to be, but shit happens. On saturn, shit happens often. Some of those folks who complain about it need to get over it.

There in is a problem, you will use whatever you can in the game to win, instead of just using your skill and that of your team. Look we all hate being outnumbered, and every clan is guilty of stacking up the numbers in the hope of winning at one point in their history or another, and we all moan about it, ive seen it plenty of times on ooc or trade channel from all of us and on many servers, not just saturn.

Look is it so important to win, what about the fun factor in the game, i think we are highlighting the BD faction on saturn right now as the faction who is the worst for it, yet i know BD has been seen on a chat channel moaning about their enemy bringing countless factions and so on against them, with answer of they are lame and that they will remove the said enemy faction from the map when they log and so on, everyone does it.

I think we are finishing up the thread here, there is not a lot left to talk about, BD have their way of fighting, others have theirs too, when in fact there probably is little difference between how people will fight, large numbers, lame tactics and so on.

But when your on the losing side, and you just been hammered by a couple of clans or factions and you feel cheated over it, sitting there angry watching ooc and your enemy gloating over your death and loss, then it gets to you, no matter who you are, this is where the problem is, we need a middle ground.

Where is the middle ground, well we could start off by saying if one clan owns a single op, then we attack that op with the intention of fighting only one clan, so we bring only our one clan and have at it, if we lose, we lose, we don't call others to help we don't whine about it, we don't do anything but either group up again and let them know we are coming, or we hit another of their ops for a chance to win.

We could also stop the endless waste of time on ooc having a go at eachother, maybe try to be a little civil at times and the odd dm saying " great fight, enjoyed that a lot", maybe we could be thoughtful and check the city com once in a while to see who the enemy has online to try and make it a good fight without the need to bring so many people. Maybe we could stop using lame tactics like TL 3 heals and newb buffing of people once they get anti buffed, the bad placement of turrets and so on.

Maybe we could stop allied faction killing, stick to the F6 unless someone really goes out of their way to PK one of your own clan, then by all means that runner is put on KOS, and if he/she is clanned, contact their clan leader about it, if you don't get a fair reply about it, then put their clan on KOS and make them suffer for it.

Maybe we could stop this alt killing, if you got a alt in one faction thats your choice and you should except the troubles that may bring, but don't go logging on your other char to waste them when it could conflit with factions and clans, just get your dead char poked and lvled up and then seek revenge at a later date.

Coz you do realise that if we carry on this game as we are right now, we are going to kill it for ourselves, we will stop any new players from getting a good start and spreading the word about how good this game is, we put such a bad image of the game and of ourselves in the game and on these very forums coz of the game troubles we do and suffer daily.

Look its up to you guys, and myself to act better, to sometimes rise above the shitty things that happen.

So with that said im going home to Crahn, I will no longer fight BD, I won't pk them, i won't target them unless it is to defend myself, which ill try to the best of my ability, i will carry on my game and fight my enemy according to the F6 rules. I will wipe the slate clean for those who want it, including neutrals.

I might also try a little RP and start heading towards a final goal of anti city and think about how to deal with Neocron runners and the city factions.

The rest is up to you all, its in your hands now.