View Full Version : The Saturn Clan Funds Poll - Show Your Views
Maloch Octavia
08-07-04, 21:09
arARRRGHHHHHHhhhhh
Forgot the fucking Poll!!!
NOOOOOEARGHHHhhhh!!!
--- Mods, can you please add a Poll with the below 1, 2 & 3 as the options? ---
Butnubbs
As the original post didn't have a Poll, and lots of valid subjects have been brought up over this subject, here we go.
Vote from the following:
1: Keep the Clan funds wiped
- This allows Saturn to have a fresh start with its economy, solves lots of problems for new runners being totally priced out of the market, and brings back a level of worth to hard currency.
2: Restore 10% of what the Clan has marked in the Citycom Info section
- Not a complete fix, but instead, 10% of what your Clan had, is given back to your Clan funding. So Clans don't go totally broke, but Clans with 100,000,000 million, are brought back to earth with a bump. It keeps the economy somewhat more stable than what it was
3: Full restore, rollback to fix funding
- The servers get rolled back, as this would be the only quick way to do it, from what I can see. This means everything goes to as it was, although we all lose a days gains from the rollback (Again), and everyone's 'happy' with basic rares costing millions and millions, and the new Runner being unable to purchase anything decent. :)
Discuss
On one hand, our economy is magically fixed, on the other, a lot of hard work is wasted. Depending on your view, lots of the Clan funds were gained through ATC Bp'ing, which has now been fixed, thus removing that issue.
Again, personal views. Our Clan lost a lot of money... I'm not sad to see it go, are you?
Richard Slade
08-07-04, 21:12
I say this: wipe ALL money.
DigestiveBiscui
08-07-04, 21:13
shutup
carry on
Clownst0pper
08-07-04, 21:15
Biccy, go team speak.
Theres someone waiting to talk to u.
@ thread starter, Leave all clan funds at zero IMHO.
[TgR]KILLER
08-07-04, 21:17
good thing i aint on sat.. like ALL my cash i got is in the clancash for storage.. as with 20 mil i'm holding for a few other people..
Funniest opening of a thread I've seen :)
it is fine this way.
I've just seen 6 people saying FUCKING great lost 200mill
FFS 200mill O_o
200mill is just insane if you ask me. if you lost, though luck. what were you gonna do with that ammount anyways?
prices went up because of a few people, so ppl could sell mc5 parts for 15+mill each.
Although this will not fix the economy it's nice :)
Sigh...
200+ million gone. That my friend is fucked up. People have worked for some of their money and sold shit to get that money, now are you gonna give all that shit back that they sold, not your not your gonna sit there and laff. well thanks KK just another reason on my list not to play.
yea n3m if your talkng about me on Morphien or Diablos that was me. This is retarded.
That 200 mill was for a shit load of people and not just me. KK has just fucked to many over to much. I'm tired of this shit
Sigh...
200+ million gone. That my friend is fucked up. People have worked for some of their money and sold shit to get that money, now are you gonna give all that shit back that they sold, not your not your gonna sit there and laff. well thanks KK just another reason on my list not to play.
yea n3m if your talkng about me on Morphien or Diablos that was me. This is retarded.
That 200 mill was for a shit load of people and not just me. KK has just fucked to many over to much. I'm tired of this shit
Have KK said that they weren't gonna restore the money? o_O
They havent said shit meaning they are thinking about it and looking at what everyone has to say to make up their minds.
Funniest opening of a thread I've seen :)
it is fine this way.
I've just seen 6 people saying FUCKING great lost 200mill
FFS 200mill O_o
200mill is just insane if you ask me. if you lost, though luck. what were you gonna do with that ammount anyways?
prices went up because of a few people, so ppl could sell mc5 parts for 15+mill each.
Although this will not fix the economy it's nice :)it won't fix...
Few days of barter/csting and rah wads of cash back.... extortionate prices again, because they'll be part snatching before you get a look in, "I'll offer you 200k it's all i have"
"I offer you 700k because it's more than him"
Would you sell your rare part for 200k or 700k?
keep em wiped, it sucks but its a nice way to start to balance the economy
Its not gonna be hard to get all the money back because the people with money in most cases has 20 million on each of their chars. And i know atleast half of the 8 chars of mine have 20 mil. But theres a lot more fucked up with the server I wouldn't even do anything in game because they are probably gonna do another rolback and fuck everything up that you have done today.
Restore the clanfunds or remove all money ! :mad:
You cant punish a few people and leave the others in peace, just because some stored some money in clanfunds and others not ...
I am sure many ppl will quit if the situation stays like it is now, because there are many ppl out there who made their money in a legal way....
Leave it as it is.
If that means tradeskillers sitting in their apt all day building APCs leaving NC, so be it. Not like they brought any fun into the game anyway.
Complete fix will be coming soon.
Complete fix will be coming soon.
and there you have it <EOF>
Complete fix will be coming soon.
OMFG!!! DON'T, YOU BIG BULLY!!
odin,
can you please consider my suggestion in the other money thread,
i think its a reasonable request.
i talk about capping the amount of items you are able to sell to npc's so that you make supply and demand more realistic rather than having someone sell an insane amount of <insert expensive product> to a shop.
we all know if we make motors for cars, if we make 1 million motors but the demand only calls for 1000, the buyer isnt going to buy all 1 mil of the motors? get what im saying? i think its a great idea to limit the amount of things you can sell to a shop for a specific amount of time. read the thread to see my idea in more detail
Agent FunHead
08-07-04, 21:56
i heard over trade from spike II that the clan money is a bug thats gonna get fixed, dunno if this is ture but should mean that clan money is returned, the fact that the main clan page still shows the right money shows that the money figures are not lost just the access to it
So far Ive not read or heard any offical word of the cash geting wiped so i wouldnt panic yet
Complete fix will be coming soon.
Thanks Odin.
Big relief.
thanks for getting my thread locked jernau.
i appreciate it. and btw... bah i wont go into it... just get edited. grow up
thanks for getting my thread locked jernau.
i appreciate it. and btw... bah i wont go into it... just get edited. grow up
It was going to get closed regardless. 2 threads about the same thing. Too far gone for merging.
No fighting between you 2 either. Take it to PM's.
thanks for getting my thread locked jernau.
i appreciate it. and btw... bah i wont go into it... just get edited. grow up
You want to ruin my game then I'll damn well object. What do you expect with such a retarded idea.
Aside from that - if it were only my post, they could have edited it. The threads needed merging and they were. Why does it matter if your name is on the "thread starter" tag? Sounds like you need to grow up if that matters so much. ;)
/edit @ odin - damn you're on the ball tonight. :D
steweygrrr
08-07-04, 23:07
I'm just going to say this:
What effect would it have on you personally if you didn't get your clans (ingame) money restored? Would it severely hinder your ability to play Neocron? Would it prevent you from doing absolutely anything?
Serious question
Thoughts please
To me?
Yes it would. I transfered most of the funds on my twelve characters into a clan account because it was a LOT easier to keep track of and I could compare my stash to other people's.
I spent hundreds of hours making that money and losing it is as bad as having my characters erased. I could powerlevel new characters in less time than I could get all that money back.
If I had kept it on the individual characters or in their stockx it would be unaffected so this is not the "great leveller" some people proclaim it as - it's a random destruction of certain people's characters.
However - it's being fixed so it's a moot point.
I'm just going to say this:
What effect would it have on you personally if you didn't get your clans (ingame) money restored? Would it severely hinder your ability to play Neocron? Would it prevent you from doing absolutely anything?
Serious question
Thoughts please
It seems to me that it would psychologically hinder someones ability if they had been saving money for 1-2 years in their clan fund only to find that it was all in vain. None of this really affects me, as I keep my cash on my alts. Now, if out of pocket cash was wiped, then I suppose I'd be ready to quit, for the above stated reason. It would definately prevent me from renewing my account, as our fee's are basically paying for a database to save our work for us, not wipe it clean.
I should just let C0LD talk for me, he states it so much nicer :-p
Shadow Dancer
09-07-04, 00:01
Odin do you recongise the problem with the economy on saturn? Does KK have any plans to alleviate the problem?
Odin do you recongise the problem with the economy on saturn? Does KK have any plans to alleviate the problem?I don't see a problem really. It's just like MC5, if you have the time and dedication, you reap the rewards. Sure inflation is bad, but there are 4 char slots, anyone can make the cst-res-brt team needed to amass wealth. So just like MC5, it's up to the person to get what they want.
That said, even though I got a mill handout from a nice person on Saturn, it's damn tough starting a noob there. :o
Shadow Dancer
09-07-04, 03:54
I don't see a problem really. It's just like MC5, if you have the time and dedication, you reap the rewards. Sure inflation is bad, but there are 4 char slots, anyone can make the cst-res-brt team needed to amass wealth. So just like MC5, it's up to the person to get what they want.
That said, even though I got a mill handout from a nice person on Saturn, it's damn tough starting a noob there. :o
I can't believe you're even taking your post seriously. Are you saying that the inflation isn't that big of a problem because everyone can make a 3 char tradeskill team to mass produce apcs and make tons of money???????
WHAT?
Yes, that is what I am saying. It can be done, people do it, and to get what you want if you aren't in a huge clan, you have to do it. It's basic economics f00.
edit: I'm not saying it should be that way, mind you. But until vehicle recipies are changed, no money wipe will ever fix anything. Maybe if APCs needed 2x7 2x8 and 2xC10 it would be fixed. But they don't.
Clan funds wipe is probly the best thing that could have happend.
Too many exploiter/hacker making too much money has inflated the market.
This will hopefully reset the econmy to a more reasonable level.
vote 1
i remember when you could get a 2 slot rog for 1 mil even, a 3 slot hl for 1.2 mil
awww those where the days
Shadow Dancer
09-07-04, 04:28
i remember when you could get a 2 slot rog for 1 mil even, a 3 slot hl for 1.2 mil
awww those where the days
I want those days back!
I want those days back!
Up the rarepart spawn back to what it was lol
Only reason you could sell stuff for cheap ass prices was cuz you had some many of the f00kin things :p
They havent said shit meaning they are thinking about it and looking at what everyone has to say to make up their minds.
See giga is always right.
i can see why some of you may see this as a bad idea (the whole leave it alone thing)
fact of the matter is, you having hundreds of millions is making the server impossible for the new player to compete in auctions. while they bid say, 100 k for that last terminator part, you are bidding 5 million.
so while you are whining that it took you 2 years to get your nice pot full of gold, what you really did was decrease the value of your gold to the point where a medkit can get you more than said gold.
look into the economics of things, you arent the only one who has hundreds of millions. the next guy needs that much just to keep up with you, then next thing you know so does everyone else. whats that called again? oh wow is that inflation?
open your eyes and see that you could have a billion million, if the next guy and the guy after him all have the same or more, it doesnt matter the amount you have since the actual value it represents will be no more than 100k :(
here let me show you a real world example
if you went to italy how much is a soda? or say... a cheeseburger?
about 1700-3000 lira
wow right... expensive as all hell... guess how much the actual value of that is?
75 american cents to 3 dollars.
Have I made my point yet? Just because you have hundreds of millions, doesnt mean that its value will amount to anything.
the only other option is to make the amount of money you get from xp higher to stay current with the inflation.
jernau, you have no idea what the long term effect of your whining is doing so shush. last thing i will say to you in public, got anything else, feel free to pm me. there are several ways i can tell you how i really feel in the most expressive manner :)
Complete fix will be coming soon.
That'd better not be a 1 week rollback :-)
i can see why some of you may see this as a bad idea (the whole leave it alone thing)
fact of the matter is, you having hundreds of millions is making the server impossible for the new player to compete in auctions. while they bid say, 100 k for that last terminator part, you are bidding 5 million.
so while you are whining that it took you 2 years to get your nice pot full of gold, what you really did was decrease the value of your gold to the point where a medkit can get you more than said gold.
look into the economics of things, you arent the only one who has hundreds of millions. the next guy needs that much just to keep up with you, then next thing you know so does everyone else. whats that called again? oh wow is that inflation?
open your eyes and see that you could have a billion million, if the next guy and the guy after him all have the same or more, it doesnt matter the amount you have since the actual value it represents will be no more than 100k :(
here let me show you a real world example
if you went to italy how much is a soda? or say... a cheeseburger?
about 1700-3000 lira
wow right... expensive as all hell... guess how much the actual value of that is?
75 american cents to 3 dollars.
Have I made my point yet? Just because you have hundreds of millions, doesnt mean that its value will amount to anything.
the only other option is to make the amount of money you get from xp higher to stay current with the inflation.
jernau, you have no idea what the long term effect of your whining is doing so shush. last thing i will say to you in public, got anything else, feel free to pm me. there are several ways i can tell you how i really feel in the most expressive manner :)
That's totally ridiculous. You know what drives prices up? Scarcity of the things people want to buy, not the availability of cash. Cash on Saturn is more valuable than it's ever been. You need every bit of it you can get your hands on. Why should a new (broke) player be able to compete immediately and directly in an economy that's taken nearly 2 years to build? This isn't week 1 on the server, stop complaining that things have changed.
100k for tech parts, that's nuts. You can get 100k farming mobs for 20 minutes. Name one single tech part you can guarantee yourself in 20 minutes of hunting. Aha you can't! Just like Ferrari gets to name their price, because they only make a couple hundred cars a year. You can't compare burgers to Ferraris. Medkits = burgers. Multi-slotted rares = Ferraris.
Unless they make items more available, including multi-slot rares, prices will just keep going up. A good team cam pull in 20-30 MC5 parts an hour. That's a good start to fixing the economy. Allowing slotenhancers to be used on rares, that would be another wise move for KK to consider. The first month a new variety of rare (e.g. Terminators) are in the game, the parts are always hideously expensive because for a short time they are truly a rarity.
Just because some (all?) clans got their funds wiped out, doesn't mean that prices will go down at all. I'm still having no trouble making 4-for-1 trades of single tech parts. Neocron represents a sellers' economy, always will.
So everyone that has some millions has to be either exploiter or a apc builder... lol.
Next time ill prefer to sell my mc5 chips on ebay than in NC for credits, as the real cash wont get a whipe that easy and if it does, everyone will be involved.
And almost everyone seems to think like that, as using the clan account for holding that cash seems to be exploiting.
What a sick way of thinking that the economy would be better off if some ppl get fucked and the others not.
:wtf:
So everyone that has some millions has to be either exploiter or a apc builder... lol.
Next time ill prefer to sell my mc5 chips on ebay than in NC for credits, as the real cash wont get a whipe that easy and if it does, everyone will be involved.
And almost everyone seems to think like that, as using the clan account for holding that cash seems to be exploiting.
What a sick way of thinking that the economy would be better off if some ppl get fucked and the others not.
:wtf:
100% agree
what a sick way of trying to fix the economy...
but at last it now looks like the funds get fixed *hooray* :)
just wonder why it took kk so long to give out a statement, perhaps at first they didnt know if they are able to restore the funds....
4. Shut down Saturn, put LE chips into everyone and move them to Pluto.
4. Shut down Saturn, put LE chips into everyone and move them to Pluto.
rofl
yea i suppose making things more available is another solution.
thanks for bringing that up.
i do remember when techs drops were way frequent and the price of things went drastically low.
thanks for reminding me of that.
Ok, well if fixing the money is not a viable solution, can we get a higher rare part drop rate?
Here's an idea.... Raise taxes, dependant on amount of cash owned in one money account, and build more strombots-doy bots for the wareffort :-)
Also, i would like to see a pp1 workforce union in place, which charges another 40% on top of normal prices to keep it going :-)
And last but not least, no more entrance allowed to people without hospitalization ensurance, into the medicare centers.
jernau, you have no idea what the long term effect of your whining is doing so shush. last thing i will say to you in public, got anything else, feel free to pm me. there are several ways i can tell you how i really feel in the most expressive manner :)I've calmed down now it's fixed but I won't take it to PMs as you put this in the public forum.
I know exactly what I'm talking about thanks. Please go and study some economics and then I'll debate it with you on those terms if you still can't see why a money-wipe won't change anything other than reducing server populations.
Until then I'll outline the main problem with your idea from a gameplay POV.
Let's take three hypothetical players with 60 mil each on Saturn (a reasonable nest-egg in the current economy and not hard to achieve if you make some effort) :
P1 - Has 15 mil on each of four characters
P2 - Has 20 mil on his main char, 29 mil in that char's stockx and the rest on others
P3 - Has 20 mil on his main or only char and 40 mil in a clan fund
Under your idea only P3 loses his money, the others keep theirs. This is clearly the worst of all worlds - some players leave in disgust and nothing changes wrt the economy as the cash/capita remains constant.
You may want to think about how you'd like to have your chars deleted while everyone else gets to keep theirs and then tell me how you would react because that's what you were suggesting to those of us that worked for our money legitimately.
omg stfu, i worked for my money too.
and no one suggested a char deletion, just the money. sigh sometimes you are so hard NOT to flame. whats your ingame name lets take this to pepper
Ah, just don't let Capt John Smith catch you in the act, or you'll be in the slammer in no time boys.
slaughteruall
09-07-04, 14:49
Let's take three hypothetical players with 60 mil each on Saturn (a reasonable nest-egg in the current economy and not hard to achieve if you make some effort) :
P1 - Has 15 mil on each of four characters
P2 - Has 20 mil on his main char, 29 mil in that char's stockx and the rest on others
P3 - Has 20 mil on his main or only char and 40 mil in a clan fund
Under your idea only P3 loses his money, the others keep theirs. This is clearly the worst of all worlds - some players leave in disgust and nothing changes wrt the economy as the cash/capita remains constant.
Ah common since is that it would of helped the economy. Then again i would of been fine if they wanted to wipe stockx also.
With less money in cerculation the money is worth more. With the ammount that is out there now credits aren't worth anything. It's rather simple if you can think. Basic economics. And i do mean basic.
Slaughter
Economics is not about money sitting still, it's about the movement of funds. Most of the people who would have been hardest hit by this have everything they want item-wise and that money is not circulating much anymore, if at all. This is a consequence of how long the game has been stagnant. The people still actively trading would have been unaffected as their funds are in cash or stocks so the economy and the percieved value of items would be unchanged.
The only problem with the NC economies currently is that there is potential for infinite cash gain and almost no way to remove it. Clearing out the current funds won't make a bit of difference it will just change the scale.
Anyone can have as much cash as they want in this game right now and the only thing they can then do is give it to other players. It's irrelevant whether the richest have ten million, a hundred million or even a billion credits the wealth gap will always be created between those who want money and those who don't.
If the richest had less money they would spend less for items so it would be harder for people to earn money in player trades. All these things are ratios, not absolute values and they are tied to the cash in circulation. Reduce that and everything goes down with it - no change in the actual gameplay just the numbers which are arbitrary anyway.
What we need is ways to bleed money out of the ecomony fairly. High value items from NPCs being the easiest way, taxation or provision of services are other options. There have many threads suggesting ideas and some seem to be getting implemented in BDoY so things may change in a few months.
slaughteruall
09-07-04, 15:22
That's totally ridiculous. You know what drives prices up? Scarcity of the things people want to buy, not the availability of cash. Cash on Saturn is more valuable than it's ever been. You need every bit of it you can get your hands on. Why should a new (broke) player be able to compete immediately and directly in an economy that's taken nearly 2 years to build? This isn't week 1 on the server, stop complaining that things have changed.
You could not be more wrong. Webshock had it right perfectly. You dont need cash well not much of it on saturn. On all 8 of my chars im MIGHT have 20 million. Do i have a problem getting anything i want? Nope i have every rare for each of my chars. When i sell TP's or rare weapons do i wont money fuck no it's worthless. Only time i will take cash is if i'm selling spells or techs to a freind of mine. Every other time i want techs in return.
I've never sold MC5 tech's or even sold full chips. I got offered 65 million for my herc one time. Why do i want 65 mill. It's point less.
100k for tech parts, that's nuts. You can get 100k farming mobs for 20 minutes. Name one single tech part you can guarantee yourself in 20 minutes of hunting. Aha you can't! Just like Ferrari gets to name their price, because they only make a couple hundred cars a year. You can't compare burgers to Ferraris. Medkits = burgers. Multi-slotted rares = Ferraris.
Once again your off ferrari makes alot more then a couple hundred cars a year. You dont need money in it's current state. Just trade one of those tech's that you got after 20 min of hunting for the one part you need. Simple yet effective.
Unless they make items more available, including multi-slot rares, prices will just keep going up. A good team cam pull in 20-30 MC5 parts an hour. That's a good start to fixing the economy. Allowing slotenhancers to be used on rares, that would be another wise move for KK to consider. The first month a new variety of rare (e.g. Terminators) are in the game, the parts are always hideously expensive because for a short time they are truly a rarity.
Slotenhancers should not be used on rares plain and simple. Everyone would be using full arti 5 slot weapons. If they would of done the money wipe prices would of fallen alot. Why cant you see that. There hideously expensive because to the people with a shit load of money money is worthless.
Just because some (all?) clans got their funds wiped out, doesn't mean that prices will go down at all. I'm still having no trouble making 4-for-1 trades of single tech parts. Neocron represents a sellers' economy, always will.
It was all clans. yes it does less money out there means money is worth more. Which means prices will drop and fast. So your trading tech's? But if money is worth so much money why dont you buy them. Or sell your tech's. Simple money is worth jack shit. Neocron represents a true economy as more cash is out there more everything is worth becuase the value of money drops. Why is that so hard to understand? Maybe you should take a basic economics class sometime before you spout stupid shit out on the forums and make yourself look so stupid.
The only problem with the NC economies currently is that there is potential for infinite cash gain and almost no way to remove it. Clearing out the current funds won't make a bit of difference it will just change the scale.
Anyone can have as much cash as they want in this game right now and the only thing they can then do is give it to other players. It's irrelevant whether the richest have ten million, a hundred million or even a billion credits the wealth gap will always be created between those who want money and those who don't.
Think about what your saying here. It's not irrelevant how much money the rich have. If the rich have the money funds to pay 5 mil for each CS part they will. And the noob player has no where near 5 mil let alone 5 mil for each part.
I see it all the time on trade. Someone is looking for something and says what they will pay. Some spouts out that they have it. And someone else shouts that they will pay twice what the other guy offered. It happens all the time. It's screwing over the noobs. I remember seeing people paying 20 mil for a dentist or a termi part. You think that is good for the economy? Bull shit.
If the richest had less money they would spend less for items so it would be harder for people to earn money in player trades. All these things are ratios, not absolute values and they are tied to the cash in circulation. Reduce that and everything goes down with it - no change in the actual gameplay just the numbers which are arbitrary anyway.
Ah your almost dead on right for once. If the rich had less money they would spend less your right there. Yes harder for people to make money on trades. That would be because the value of the money has gone up. Yes ratios less money things are not worth as much, More money things are worth more. Why is that you ask? Ok more money you have you will pay what ever to get something. Which means money is worthless to you. if the irch give money away so freely everyone gets rich after awhile. Everyone is rich they have no purpose to get richer. So money becomes worthless. Which it is now.
Slaughter
Maybe you should take a basic economics class sometime before you spout stupid shit out on the forums and make yourself look so stupid.
SlaughterWTFoMgpwnt
:/ :lol:
its hard to explain it to them slaughter, most of these kids get an allowance or have a job at mcdonalds or something, their budget consists of how much money they cant spend to get a blunt, some cheeseburgers and take their lady friend to a movie or something.
From the conversations i have had on here, it seems that a lot of the people throwing in their 2 cents have no fucking clue how an economy works.
Still its funny to see someone way calmer than me digitally bitch slap someone for saying something ignorant trying to sound educated.
Oh the irony. There really isn't any point even trying to educate some people is there? :rolleyes:
lets have this taken to PP come on Jernau V Apoc(que rocky theme)
lets have this taken to PP come on Jernau V Apoc(que rocky theme)
Right after I see any real world economic decisions succesfully settled that way I'm up for it.
Until then I stand by knowledge, education and facts for these matters and I'll get my PvP kicks where and when I usually find them.
Oh the irony. There really isn't any point even trying to educate some people is there? :rolleyes:
Ya the point they are missing its not the total amount of cash but the fact there is no drain on new cash income.
KK kinda gets it with the new drug prices and the new parts list for vhc parts. They are attempting to sink some cash and limit the flow of incoming cash. Its not like they have a fed intrest rate to bounce around.
slaughteruall
09-07-04, 17:13
WTFoMgpwnt
:/ :lol:
its hard to explain it to them slaughter, most of these kids get an allowance or have a job at mcdonalds or something, their budget consists of how much money they cant spend to get a blunt, some cheeseburgers and take their lady friend to a movie or something.
From the conversations i have had on here, it seems that a lot of the people throwing in their 2 cents have no fucking clue how an economy works.
Still its funny to see someone way calmer than me digitally bitch slap someone for saying something ignorant trying to sound educated.
It could be that these kids also dont travel that much. You and i are in the same line of work. so we do travel alot and see how screwed up some economies are. Even just in the USA it changes state to state and even by counties sometimes. Maybe we should screw our economy over and take the euro instead of the dollar. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Slaughter
You don't want the Euro it's as well thought out as one of WebShock's ideas.
slaughteruall
09-07-04, 17:19
You don't want the Euro it's as well thought out as one of WebShock's ideas.
Did you miss the :lol: :lol: :lol: that implies a joke. Maybe that statement was over your head a little. I will try and use smaller words next time.
Slaughter
Did you miss the :lol: :lol: :lol: that implies a joke. Maybe that statement was over your head a little. I will try and use smaller words next time.
Slaughter
I did but as this thread now seems to have devolved into pointless jibes I was just joining in ;).
You could of course try to offer some kind of support for your opinions and have a sensible discussion but I guess some people aren't capable of or equiped for rational thought.
....have a sensible discussion....You might be asking for a bit too much there. :lol:
or we could all just duke it out :D
meh just a idea :p
Clan funds are fixed (afaik) so this thread is now surplus to requirements anyway.
N
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