View Full Version : [Movie] Overriding Buffs ?
There have already been alot of Threads and also alot of good Ideas about how to solve the so called "noob buffing" that means prevent the ppu from casting his Holy Shelter by giving him and "normal" Shelter.
Is it fun ?
No it aint!
Give us your opinion if something should be done over it!
To make this all a bit more intresting i got a little Video for you guys ;)
http://foppa.cse.kau.se/mm12/nc/noobbuffs.mpg
Mumblyfish
06-07-04, 19:51
Debuffing and rebuffing PPUs is a very clever method of taking them down. I honestly can't see the problem in it, at all.
Shadow Dancer
06-07-04, 19:52
40 mbs? o_O
I would be ok with buffs being overridden(sp?) if a few changes were made to ppus.
But not by itself.
No, it's a valid tactic.
Not!
I agree with Mumbly. This is one of the few ways to take down a PPU. Leave it be.
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 19:55
I hope there will be something for it soon, as well i think there will be many / some that will cry if u be able to override nib buffs.
Theyr argument prolly will be "buhu it was the only way to kill PPU's".
Cuz we all know that imo PPU's are the traget for all that need to cry about the balance in the game.
Logan_storm_03
06-07-04, 19:56
i see where ur coming from, but PPUs are shit hot already with out loosing another way to take one down...
im sad to see so many ppl think its a good valid tactic, it really takes the fun out of fights.
Noob Buffing maybe ok
But then you should get something to remove your own shelter!
maybee a drug ?
man what took u sooo long i've been waiting for this for ages
/edit my timing was pretty good their u have to admit also if u act like ur completely innocent and have never done it before then u can go swivel so if u do it u should expect it to be done to u.
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 19:57
Ah well just posted and see there are the guys!
Like i said in a other Thread
EVERY PPU CAN BE KILLED WITHOUT NOOB BUFFING!
HEY!! THATS ME PLAYIN ON ARGRONIOUS!! in the words of the great Uho.. UBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
i agreee with demon there other ways.
Noob buffing is no honor !
@Cannings, took some time to render the Video eh ?
@Kayne, you dont need to be great to take someone down if you noob buff, tbh . You shouldnt be proud of that !
Mumblyfish
06-07-04, 20:00
EVERY PPU CAN BE KILLED WITHOUT NOOB BUFFING!
No they can't. Some of them are just too good to be killed any other way.
Shit man, great timing.
Well done.
They can change this at the same time they change para so TG can para spam to shit n e more (that doesn't show a fair side to our fights they new they were recording we didn't)
@Mumblyfish, Maybe some of them are really good and hard to take down. But then you just need to be better, and not fall onto the level to relay on noob buffing to win a fight.
BloodyHarry
06-07-04, 20:03
Hmm
what codec is this video?
Cant find the right one ;)
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:04
No they can't. Some of them are just too good to be killed any other way.
Name them pls! I dont know anybody that not was get killed the normal way yet! And trust me i know many realy good PPU's and all of them was get killed yet!
yeah, i cant watch it.. what codec is it??
I agree noob buffing sucks. My clan will never do it. Buffs should just override each other. Like when some jackass casts drone booster1 on you even.
@Bloodyharry its normal mpeg-2. You should be able to view it with any player i.e. like windowsmedia one.
@demonX really true, ppl exagerate those things to much.
@Drake Ye ^^ if i would have recorded everytime i got a drone buff in plaza 2 or 1 the movie would be like to big to be downloaded ;)
You can only have balance if all classes can be killed. Without Noob buffing its almost impossible (providing the PPU has some form of competance) to kill a PPU. Noob buffing gives a more exciting element to the game.
Noob buffing is a clever tactic - it is not an expliot - it is a part of the game not an excuse for getting your backsided handed to you!
@Sovellis Its not a clever tactic its a lame tactic. It just takes the fun away, because you cant do anything about it, unless the apu is stupid enough to anti buff you again. But yes i agree its hard to take a ppu down. Almost impossible if by 1 runner, hard by 2 Runners and the more runners you have the easier it gets. But its supposed to be like that.
i have to say its twice as satisfying to hear primate on comms aswell
Noob buffing is a clever tactic - it is not an expliot - it is a part of the game not an excuse for getting your backsided handed to you!
Who said it was an exploit?
And why do some ppl think that PPUs should be taken down easy? They are
the mother-fuckers of defense. Why should 1 PE with a libby be able to take
down a PPU?
And every PPU can die, nobody is _that_ skilled.
Darken you do not define what is lame and what is right, just like you dont define what is right and wrong. In war you do what you have to win, this isnt an exploit, this is a tactic, and if it is used correctly and to an effect then yes, it is clever.
As for the PE libby, no PE libby person could take down a good ppu. They cant noob buff, and +, even if they got noob healed, I still reckon a ppu cld dodge well enough providing they have a def on, and still be alive ready for another heal.
@Cannings This Thread is not about your satisfaction that you won due noob buffing its about the problem noob buffing it self, keep it out plz.
@Sovellis Yes i dont define that but in my and it seems some other ppl opinions too it is lame. and there should be done something about it.
i have to say its twice as satisfying to hear primate on comms aswell
<3
Be kind. I'm trying to quit smoking. 40 hours & counting without one.
Shadow Dancer
06-07-04, 20:12
Haha I just saw the video. That was great. :p
@Cannings This Thread is not about your satisfaction that you won due noob buffing its about the problem noob buffing it self, keep it out plz.
You should have edited out his name then. ;)
Darken you do not define what is lame and what is right, just like you dont define what is right and wrong. In war you do what you have to win, this isnt an exploit, this is a tactic, and if it is used correctly and to an effect then yes, it is clever.
Dude, everything is not black & white... right or wrong. There are things
inbetween. And nobody said it was an exploit ffs.
K before this threads get closed because of flaming.. I can't view it with any of my players (including wmp)
Debuffing and rebuffing PPUs is a very clever method of taking them down. I honestly can't see the problem in it, at all.
Creating aimbots is a very clever way of taking down other people. It doesn't stop them from feeling cheated though.
Logan_storm_03
06-07-04, 20:14
i agreee with demon there other ways.
Noob buffing is no honor !
neither is para honorable, and you dont see any people camplain about that :D .. ...do ya :confused: :p
Logan_storm_03
06-07-04, 20:15
Creating aimbots is a very clever way of taking down other people. It doesn't stop them from feeling cheated though.
thats a complete differnt ball game there im afraid...
heh ppus who can count can dodge the "normal" tactics
APu starts casting anti buff you count a few then begin to cast the shelt, when you get good you can reshelt just as the other shelt has gone while the HH keeps your health enough to keep you alive for like .5seconds as shelter recasts
n00b buffing is annoying as hell quite a few times i have stood in plaza when people have pc boosted my tank and said "haha enjoy pc 1"
But i have to also agree with some people, it's a very usefull way to take down a ppu as the anti measures are hear n there .....
while your at can the anti heal drone take away ALL healing ie sanctums aswell.....
heh and anti heal drones are handy, just kinda b0rked so no-one uses em but they are more effective than some care to admit but sanctums ... and drone bugs O_o
Mumblyfish
06-07-04, 20:16
@Sovellis Yes i dont define that but in my and it seems some other ppl opinions too it is lame. and there should be done something about it.
Except that there are just as many people that think it isn't. Oh, and if you get newbie-buffed and make it out alive, just have a friendly APU antibuff you. That's not too hard now, is it?
I know nobody said it was an exploit, I didnt say they did did I!!! learn to read. The comment simply meant, its not an exploit, therefore it shouldnt be removed, its not like its a cheat, so again, it shouldnt be removed.
As for aimbots, there is no natural skill in that. Its all fake, it completely different. Using Noob buffs is making sure you use the mechanics of the game to your advantage, not getting some AI to do it for you cos you have the aim of a monkey.
@Sovellis dont come now with things shouldnt be removed its not exploit its not cheat. Things like that gets changed all the time even if its not cheat or exploit
@n3m i dunno why its normal mpeg-2
@sovellis Using mechanics of the game to your advantage ? Like pp1 Sync, UG syncing, Open a trade window, punch the guards ?
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:20
The problem i see is that most that say its good to noob buff just whant a fast and easy kill.
PPU's in pure are hard to kill thats true but where is the problem on it?
Is it so bad that it need some work to kill?
Is it realy so bad that PPU's cant take down by a single player (as well i saw that happend)?
In the situation i saw on the fight what would the PPU do anyway alone? Would he rezz anybody? No cuz he will need 30 secs to rezz and get antibuffed and killed. Will he hack the OP? No cuz well Antibuff and dead.
He may will run and GR out ... i saw Para spam anyway so lil more DB and antibuff and well he may will go down as well in the normal way, but i think that may would take to long or guys?
In the situation i saw on the fight what would the PPU do anyway alone? Would he rezz anybody? No cuz he will need 30 secs to rezz and get antibuffed and killed. Will he hack the OP? No cuz well Antibuff and dead.
He may will run and GR out ... i saw Para spam anyway so lil more DB and antibuff and well he may will go down as well in the normal way, but i think that may would take to long or guys?
heh i ran....
to the next zone and repoked my team and came back and we won cuz they were ressurecting at the time :D \o/
@DemonX Yes it would have went like that prolly, where it would be again a matter of skill of the ppu and apu+ppu. But there you actually can proof your skill. Which is totally different to noob buffing.
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:26
I dunno may i am wrong but is it not a abuse of game mechanics?
Lemme try to explain why, noob buffs in any chase are not in the Game to make u able to kill anybody! There are in the Game to help urself when not got a PPU/Hybrid around that can use better stuff. They in the game to give u ability to do something alone as well and not have to stick on Medikits only like pure APU's as they the only class without any selfcastable buffs.
But as i see it they are never maked to kill or help kill ppl!
And it is kinda sad to see so many say they are here to help u kill. Thats like u say PPU = APU cuz he helps u to kill and well the spells are used as offence to kill ppl!
thats a complete differnt ball game there im afraid...
No it's not.
Both are tactics to take people down.
Both make the person feel cheated.
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:27
heh i ran....
to the next zone and repoked my team and came back and we won cuz they were ressurecting at the time :D \o/
Does that change if the ppu dies in the fight or gr / ran out?
Shadow Dancer
06-07-04, 20:28
No it's not.
Both are tactics to take people down.
Both make the person feel cheated.
Aimbot is an exploit and against the rules. ;)
And para makes me feel cheated. ;)
Mumblyfish
06-07-04, 20:28
Both are tactics to take people down.
Both make the person feel cheated.
I feel cheated when my side gets out-monked.
I don't ask for a monk-limit to be put in zones.
@demon and Benjie good point its kinda abusing the game mechanics like para for the ppu , but thats again another thing. btw Benjie sure you feel cheated did you watch the movie ? ^^
I can imagine it takes alot of skill to noob buff someone like cannings did to us.
Looking at the video myself (from darkens perspective) It was very well executed.
But no matter what it's still kinda lame (as is parashock... had a fucking drugflash that fight)
If noob buffs were sorted out & parashock removed (from pvp atleast) alot
of people would get a better gaming experience? ey?
I know i sound mad on the comms but i'm not really.... no smoking makes me
annoyed easily. :p
EDIT: Video : 0.0 B, 4000 Kbps, 29.970 fps, 720*480 (16:9), MPG2 = MPEG 2 (SVCD/DVD)
thats the codec of the vid.
- Primate
Shadow Dancer
06-07-04, 20:33
Let's make a deal. Completely revamp para or remove it, and make buffs override?
In war you do what you have to win.
Erm, its a game, not a matter of life and death.
Oh, and does that include cheating too?
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:34
Para not makes me feel cheated, it is annoying but hey it is maked to slow down PPL. So it is ok to use it, cuz IT IS MAKED for it!
Noob buffs are like i sayd not maked to kill / make able to easy kill anything! So they should not be used!
Aimbots, Wallhacks, Freqhacks or anything near to it are true Cheats and way way way (x10000) more bad then any noob buffs ever can be.
Let's make a deal. Completely revamp para or remove it, and make buffs override?evil
I liek it :D
Let's make a deal. Completely revamp para or remove it, and make buffs override?
Deal.
that video was pretty funny cuz i was the apu lol.. "I WAS NOOB BUFFED.. FUCK YOU FUCK YOU GAY!!!" sorry :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:36
Let's make a deal. Completely revamp para or remove it, and make buffs override?
1st thing that sounds realy good!
But for now all ppl cry about Paraspam, remove it and all will cry that all run around to fast!
@demonx Then ppl will have to learn how to aim :)
that video was pretty funny cuz i was the apu lol.. "I WAS NOOB BUFFED.. FUCK YOU FUCK YOU GAY!!!" sorry :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's all good :p
Shadow Dancer
06-07-04, 20:38
1st thing that sounds realy good!
But for now all ppl cry about Paraspam, remove it and all will cry that all run around to fast!
Hopefully DOY will improve FPS.
I'm assuming that most of the complaints about speed has to do with low fps?
I don't mind super fast people, if my FPS is good enough for me to aim properly.
*gets flamed for saying apus AIM*
:lol:
Does that change if the ppu dies in the fight or gr / ran out?Yep...
The fact the remaining attack force of like ppus, apus and tanks couldn't take me out with the "normal" tools before i got across a zone which was a long run at that.
This is without the cath sanctum when i used to use the single removal spells like anti shock, once i removed shock the rest became irrelevant as i am moving fast and when i did get debuffed i had already put enough distance in to rebuff and not much is gonna kill me fast from range bar apu paneling thanks the shitty cs/dissie/fl aims.
The only way i die is cuz i forget to buff, the server wont letme buff or i have a low tl shelt or def on me i haven't died to a antibuff yet....actually the only implemented ppu measure i died to was the anti heal drone because i didn't know what the feck was going on when i got mad psi manipulations ticking down on my screen
And as a result i made the battle last even longer, i'd have prefered the rez at 7s at least then i would have been a target and other ppus would be targets as they would risk it at that speed but the rez isnt much of a problem if you are close to the public grs anyway.
If holy antibuff didn't have a massive warning beacon and didnt take like 5 odd seconds to cast then it would prolly be a very good countermeasure but as it is i see the disco ball i get ready.....
Let's make a deal. Completely revamp para or remove it, and make buffs override?
Agreed, 100%, spit on my hand and shake yours. D E A L !
See there we already got one tactic, a droner !
Yes mostly PPus die to not casting shields or lags (excluding noob buffing) but thats how it should be.
Still you can take down a PPU if you have enough ppl, but i need teamwork ! Not like tanks running always infront and disturbing apus aim.
A well timed anti buff + 2 apus Kills alot ppus!
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:45
Hopefully DOY will improve FPS.
I'm assuming that most of the complaints about speed has to do with low fps?
I don't mind super fast people, if my FPS is good enough for me to aim properly.
*gets flamed for saying apus AIM*
:lol:
:) I not think FPS makes real that much (ok if got around 20 at least in a fight). But when got that 100fps wont change ur aim at all.
Shadow Dancer
06-07-04, 20:47
:) I not think FPS makes real that much (ok if got around 20 at least in a fight). But when got that 100fps wont change ur aim at all.
Yea, but sometimes my FPS dips to like 13. That makes aiming a real pain in the ass. I NEED good fps to kill the good ppus. The ones where you can't afford to miss, and you have to make sure you are shooting at maximum frequency and hitting with each shot.
grrrr
For all ppl who could not view it.
you need this
http://download.divxmovies.com/mpeg2codec_installer.zip
then you can watch it in windows media player
..i..DemonX
06-07-04, 20:51
Yea, but sometimes my FPS dips to like 13. That makes aiming a real pain in the ass. I NEED good fps to kill the good ppus. The ones where you can't afford to miss, and you have to make sure you are shooting at maximum frequency and hitting with each shot.
grrrr
Uh Shadow :D get better comp :angel:
Creating aimbots is a very clever way of taking down other people. It doesn't stop them from feeling cheated though.
careful, you might get the thread closed, because of "discussing exploits" :p
@Sovellis Its not a clever tactic its a lame tactic. It just takes the fun away, because you cant do anything about it
Funny, that's exactly how I feel about PPUs.
Mumblyfish
06-07-04, 22:10
Funny, that's exactly how I feel about PPUs.
Haha! Thread won. Game, set and arse.
A well setup ppu can stay alive with a tl heal on them until the tl3 runs out and can recast a holy after that and have no problem staying alive.
Any decent ppu rarely lets his shelter or deflector stay down long enough for somebody to get a noob shelter or deflecter on them.
People casting br1 and drone 1 are a problem and a pain in the arse but they are genreally only a minor irritant.
A skilled ppu should only die to crashs or being ganked by a load of people.
Yes sure but they anti buff you or SPirit mod SH you and then noob buff
Watch your buffs and you should have all capped freq spells so you still shouldnt have a problem if you attentive and have the right modded spells.
Having finally gotten to watch the video, I don't see the problem.
You got owned. Doesn't matter how. Using legal game mechanics, you were picking a genrep.
Good game. Stop crying.
Thread starter, could you please tell me your system specs and how you recorded this movie? I am stunned by the amount of FPS.
Maybe with an HAB, but not if im getting shot by Spirit SH(But thats another story)
@hivemind I wouldnt be so sure about that if primate wouldnt have died (because of noob buff) we would still have a pretty good chance!
The Threadstarter got an name :P Darken :)
And sure:
Intel P4@2,8
Rocklagemainboard S-ATA,Hyperthreading +Duelchannel Ram
2x 256mb
160GB Maxtor S-ATA
Radeon 9600 XT Pro Club 128mb
I recorded it with Camtasia2 in Divx Codec with around 4000 bps and 30fps.
That all in 800x600 Windowmode
usually about 50+ fps then sometimes 100+.
I have a 2.4Ghz, 786MB DDR RAM, 240 GB HD ATI 9200XT.
I blame the graphic card for laggin me down so much, I better get a X800 soon.
Sorry threadstarter, errr, Darken.
Some how I don't think that KK made lower level buffs to take down ppus. o_O :confused:
Clownst0pper
06-07-04, 23:30
I hate, absolutely hate noob buffs and heals being used on PPU's its just stupid, the stronger buffs should ALWAYS overide the low level heals and shelters.
I doubt KK intended heals to be used in such a way...
Mumblyfish
06-07-04, 23:31
Some how I don't think that KK made lower level buffs to take down ppus. o_O :confused:
They didn't, but they ended up being used that way. And Hell, it works. I don't see them ever taking it out.
They didn't, but they ended up being used that way. And Hell, it works. I don't see them ever taking it out.
PPUs have a hard enough job as it is without noobs with noob buffs. If you make a char who is a class dedicated to staying alive you should be able without any trouble.
Clownst0pper
06-07-04, 23:37
PPUs have a hard enough job as it is without noobs with noob buffs. If you make a char who is a class dedicated to staying alive you should be able without any trouble.
The class is dedicated to staying alive, and really, unless your parashocked (a problem in itself) a noob shelter should be the only problem
PPUs have a hard enough job as it is without noobs with noob buffs. If you make a char who is a class dedicated to staying alive you should be able without any trouble.
FUCK THAT. They're virtually unkillable for most people. Anything that kills PPUs better is a win in my book.
By your logic, tanks shouldn't have any trouble wasting people, since they're a class dedicated to killing.
Right?
There have already been alot of Threads and also alot of good Ideas about how to solve the so called "noob buffing" that means prevent the ppu from casting his Holy Shelter by giving him and "normal" Shelter.
Is it fun ?
No it aint!
Give us your opinion if something should be done over it!
To make this all a bit more intresting i got a little Video for you guys ;)
http://foppa.cse.kau.se/mm12/nc/noobbuffs.mpg
is this the video i moaned at you to involve me in? :p
too tried to read everything but the people that can't see the vid it's because it's in Mpeg 2 which is the same format as DVD's so you need an MPEG2 decoder ie DVD software, try that.
Gotta say I agree. The frustration in the end of that video is something most everyone I'm sure, can relate to. The PPU is the Passive half of the monk class. Once all the damage dealers are dead, in my opinion, he SHOULD have about an 80% chance of bugging out alive. His disgrace is that he let his team die as his ONLY primary job is to keep them alive. To be able to do that, to just kill a PPU for the fuck of it, is somewhat pointless.
I've always wanted Blessed Buffs to override normal and Holy to override both Blessed and normal.
If not, an drug without drugflash that immediately strips all S/D that would allow a PPU to use it out of his QB (like they need another item in their QB), and then rebuff himself, hopefully fast enough to counter a single APU. Two APUs would still most likely mean immediate death.
do something against this lame nOOb-buffing!
every ppu can be killed! since antibuff/antishelter_antideflector/spirit-mod for SH got add to the game there is no chance for every ppu to be alive in every fight!
that's fact! <---
nobody need to "TL3 heal"etc. all other who do this are LAMER and nOObs! that's fact too! <---
everybody who doesnt belive this come on pluto with a high lvl ppu and ill show him how to get to high heaven ;) !
do something against this lame nOOb-buffing!
every ppu can be killed! since antibuff/antishelter_antideflector/spirit-mod for SH got add to the game there is no chance for every ppu to be alive in every fight!
that's fact! <---
nobody need to "TL3 heal"etc. all other who do this are LAMER and nOObs! that's fact too! <---
everybody who doesnt belive this come on pluto with a high lvl ppu and ill show him how to get to high heaven ;) !
the same way freee was tl3 healing me every time i got antibuffed and u couldn't kill me
im sad to see so many ppl think its a good valid tactic, it really takes the fun out of fights.
Noob Buffing maybe ok
But then you should get something to remove your own shelter!
maybee a drug ?
My thoughts exactly, simple add a cheap anti s/d/h drug, ppu needs to take more steps to get up and running again, gives others a chance of killing him or her and gives the ppu a chance of surviving such a thing. everybody happy =)
..i..DemonX
07-07-04, 02:17
the same way freee was tl3 healing me every time i got antibuffed and u couldn't kill me
Haha good one Cannings! Very good one hahaha cant stop laught, sorry but i saw u die easy and fast 2 times at a OP fight where u where not noob buffed or anything! Just a APU was come Antibuffed ya and u was going down! No noob buffs or anything at this!
But back to the point, i agree with Krypto.
As well the main noob buff issue is based on "He did to me, so i do to him". (As it is mainly this way in any Flame shit on Pluto)
So i realy wonder if ppl would agree and realy not noob buff after they agree if it just will stop?
i don't proclaim to be invincible i was just saying that krypto ain't innocent and neither is his clan
..i..DemonX
07-07-04, 02:39
Never said he / they are. :angel:
I think noob buffing is a valid tactic, but I would support being able to 'upgrade' buffs if you had to cast them twice. Basically, I cast TL3 heal on you, your PPU casts holy, but because you've vot a basic, it upgrades it once to a blessed. Then he has to cast holy heal on you again to move it up to a holy heal. Same with Booster1->2 then 2->3 etc.
My justification for this is that noob buffing is the only real way to make PPUs ineffective. Those of you that say it should be hard to kill a PPU have never fought some good PPUs apparently, because even with not so great fighters, 15 or 20 people should be able to take one PPU down. Sometimes they can't unless the PPU gets noob buffed.
The existance of noob buffing and countless other imbalances/bugs/problems with the PPU class is a great double message from KK. They want PPU's to be all important and needed for most high level activity... But they don't want to reward us. In fact they want to punish us for existing and doing our job. PPU is easily the most thankless job in the game.
I'm fine with PPU's being killable, though i believe that will require other alterations to balance the class, but I don't believe in abusing game mechanics to kill the PPU. If we're supposed to be that killable, make it so! Don't invent outrageous ways to circumvent our defenses, just make us killable. Once we're killable maybe it'll become obvious how sucky life is as a PPU. Of course then most PPU's will quit and the community will happily sweep the remaining PPU's under the carpet.
TBH I agree noob buffs are not always needed hell i almost got taken down by 2 biotech spies one constant anti sheltering me with spirit mod the other stuck a tl3 heal on me and started laying into me with exec not to mention the apu chasing me round bio hq i think i was on about 20 hlt when i got out and there was 0 chance of me rezzing who i needed to rez.
There are ways to protect urself from the noob buff its just u have to think of them Sanctums are one way. Darken himself told me a way to survive against tl25 shelt on u guess at the end of the days its how quick u react
funkeymonkey
07-07-04, 13:42
I agree with it, makes better use of holy antibuff as well. A (good) ppu can cast there shelter and deflecter extreamly fast, if there too slow to be able to cast their own buffs on themselves after sombody antibuffs then thats their own fault.
nah keep it as it is, its funny watching those cocky ppus think there invinsible then suddenly drop cos they got noob buffed
FUCK THAT. They're virtually unkillable for most people. Anything that kills PPUs better is a win in my book.
By your logic, tanks shouldn't have any trouble wasting people, since they're a class dedicated to killing.
Right?
Tanks can already pretty much waste people without much difficulty already.
@crazy ye it was the one
@samhain Well 3-4 PPL take a ppu easier down than 15+ PPL because you cant get good team work neither coordinating which is needed to kill a good ppu. The PPU just gets crowded and not hit. Your idea is good with upgrading buffs, i think there has already been something similar, but apperently KK didnt care about it yet or safes it as "feature" for DOY :lol:
@jiga i totally agreee with you and KK didnt itend the noob buffs to be used like that! Its just a way they shouldnt be used.
@ezza Thats a stupid comment, you just dont want to loose the ability to kill someone easy, who shouldnt be killed easy. Since PPUs got taken away their Parabolt (which was like the only way to do some dmg) they cant deal anykind of dangerous dmg (dont come with SC now) Like already said you already get enough pain and suffer from seing that your team died, which is like almost somehow a bit the PPUs fault. PPL noobbuff because they are to lazy to afford the work and skill to earn the killing of a "almost-imortal" ppu.
Ye on Pluto its like onoz you started it !!! No you started it !!! nAH it was you who started it ! We just do it because you did it !NONONO we did it because you did it....
Its a vicious circle!
---
Forgive me my bad spelling and mistakes :angel:.
..i..DemonX
07-07-04, 20:06
I agree with it, makes better use of holy antibuff as well. A (good) ppu can cast there shelter and deflecter extreamly fast, if there too slow to be able to cast their own buffs on themselves after sombody antibuffs then thats their own fault.
Gues u not play a PPU or? Or u never played in a good team. I saw realy good PPU's (those that normaly unkillable if they only have to keep themselfs alive) with no chance to recast theyr stuff earlyer then they got noob buffed!
If the APU / SPY say i shoot or start Antibuff then say casted the PPU only wait till he says and cast be4 the Holy Stuff got removed and ur able to recast it! I think u see it pretty nice in the Vid!
I like the idear off upgrade spells 1 > 2 > 3 tough!
@crazy ye it was the one
@samhain Well 3-4 PPL take a ppu easier down than 15+ PPL because you cant get good team work neither coordinating which is needed to kill a good ppu. The PPU just gets crowded and not hit. Your idea is good with upgrading buffs, i think there has already been something similar, but apperently KK didnt care about it yet or safes it as "feature" for DOY :lol:
@jiga i totally agreee with you and KK didnt itend the noob buffs to be used like that! Its just a way they shouldnt be used.
@ezza Thats a stupid comment, you just dont want to loose the ability to kill someone easy, who shouldnt be killed easy. Since PPUs got taken away their Parabolt (which was like the only way to do some dmg) they cant deal anykind of dangerous dmg (dont come with SC now) Like already said you already get enough pain and suffer from seing that your team died, which is like almost somehow a bit the PPUs fault. PPL noobbuff because they are to lazy to afford the work and skill to earn the killing of a "almost-imortal" ppu.
Ye on Pluto its like onoz you started it !!! No you started it !!! nAH it was you who started it ! We just do it because you did it !NONONO we did it because you did it....
Its a vicious circle!
---
Forgive me my bad spelling and mistakes :angel:.
lol there was hardly any noob buffing on pluto till a certain clan that ur a member of that i won't mention the name of for the keep in game ban hammer looming started doing it at every fight.
you just dont want to loose the ability to kill someone easy
while you just want the ablility to be god like
@Cannings which im like no more really sure about, and if , it was just one special guy whos no more in clan i think.
@ezza yes, true but your not supposed to kill a ppu easy, especially not by using the buffs in a wrong way
Promethius
07-07-04, 20:59
There have already been alot of Threads and also alot of good Ideas about how to solve the so called "noob buffing" that means prevent the ppu from casting his Holy Shelter by giving him and "normal" Shelter.
Is it fun ?
No it aint!
Give us your opinion if something should be done over it!
To make this all a bit more intresting i got a little Video for you guys ;)
http://foppa.cse.kau.se/mm12/nc/noobbuffs.mpg
I dont see people complaining that enemy PPU's heal u accidentaly during battles? Take the bad with the good.
-Prom
@ezza yes, true but your not supposed to kill a ppu easy, especially not by using the buffs in a wrong way
But darken in one of our dm convo's u told me about how to combat being noob buffed so u know how to survive it
But darken in one of our dm convo's u told me about how to combat being noob buffed so u know how to survive it
Canda - pwnd - darken
@ Promethius Get some closer look at the Vid, i never got healed by the enemy ppu, neither i healed one of the enemies, you prolly just missed the cast as im really switching fast
@Cannings, yes there some ways to prevent and survive it, but just if your ready, and got a prepared quickbelt(that means your not good equipped to support someone, neither i wanne start a discussing why the quickbelt is to small) still its a false use of the buffs which should be changed.
It just takes the Fun away, its no honor to use em, and its just not NECESSARY!
@Sovellis Great Comment uhhh really well thought ? In what way he pwned me ? o_O Post something that helps plz, not something that states how you think Cannings and my relation is or who pwned who
Well tbh Darken, this whole damn topic isnt about getting noob buffing removed for the good of the server, its the problem that you and the rest of FF cant do it, and its annoying you that your not "the best" anymore. Why not try fighting fire with fire and learn to do it! Its not difficult... really.
Oh and FYI, when defending an op, it easy to solve the noob buff problem. You just run into the UG and get an apu to debuff ya, and at the same time, makes op fights last longer, and make victory all the sweeter.
It does not have to be removed it should be reworked. Its not my problem that as you think im not the best anymore :p .
Thx tho for stating that i "have" been the best in your eyes :lol:
Im sure i could easily use it but I dont wanne fight with fire as i dont want to get on that low level to relie on noobbuffs to win a fight.
UG Syncing is something else which is anoying:
-because of crashs
-because of beeing attacked when your not done syncing yet
-because of ppl just running into UG when their low health
Again this is not part of the Thread.
And i made the thread to discuss about noob buffs wether they should be done something or not its not just for the good of the servers its for the honor of fights.
dogman jones
07-07-04, 21:27
Well, nib-heals have been a viable tactic to kill PPU's as long as I can remember. If KK wants to change that, thats cool, until then, live with it.
Because you died to a viable tactic tells me that you need to go to P2 get some pokes and quit your crying. Because damn, man, that video tells me one thing:
sovellis is right darken = pwned.
..i..DemonX
07-07-04, 21:29
Well tbh Darken, this whole damn topic isnt about getting noob buffing removed for the good of the server, its the problem that you and the rest of FF cant do it, and its annoying you that your not "the best" anymore. Why not try fighting fire with fire and learn to do it! Its not difficult... really.
Oh and FYI, when defending an op, it easy to solve the noob buff problem. You just run into the UG and get an apu to debuff ya, and at the same time, makes op fights last longer, and make victory all the sweeter.
I dont know if u read the whole tread or even read anything here.
But Fire with Fire? Does is solve the problem? Isnt that the bullshit with u noob buffed now we do as well?
Oh and yes its easy when defead the OP sure cuz all time u so close to the UG, all time a APU only wait for u down there to antibuff, all time there still fighters outside to defead the OP while u sit in the UG, all time u got no long sync/crash when get out of the UG and die in no time! Yeah very easy!
@dogman It has not been there forever i just started some month ago, i dont remeber all details tho. PPL just suddenly started to use it, and more and more ppl jumped on the bandwaggon and did it too. Earlier ppl just had more honor ? more will to afford the work to kill a ppu ? :confused:
I dont need you ppl stating that i got pwned in the Vid ? Everyone dies sometimes this is just "one" of the few times i die.
I could have postet the full video(i dont have alot of upload =/) which would have showed that they got "pwned"(outnumbering us a slightly bit) all the way befor, maybe that was the reason they went down to the level where they use noob buffs, as they wanted to win for everyprice. We got severel dead ppl and they got severel dead ppl, but we were doing good, until Primate , then me got noob buffed.
funkeymonkey
07-07-04, 21:49
Gues u not play a PPU or? Or u never played in a good team. I saw realy good PPU's (those that normaly unkillable if they only have to keep themselfs alive) with no chance to recast theyr stuff earlyer then they got noob buffed!
If the APU / SPY say i shoot or start Antibuff then say casted the PPU only wait till he says and cast be4 the Holy Stuff got removed and ur able to recast it! I think u see it pretty nice in the Vid!
I like the idear off upgrade spells 1 > 2 > 3 tough!
Yeah i play as a ppu and apu, and ive also played in plenty of good teams (im a member of shadow on saturn and was also in cartel for a long time). Being unkillable as a ppu if u only have to keep yourself alive isent that hard, just got to keep an eye out for antibuff or anti shield and time your buffs right. If your a good ppu then you should be capable of getting your shelter ready and recast it just before or quickly after the antibuff has done its work.
Monkey look closely again at the Video, They casted the noob shelter like at same time when he started to cast the anti buff, their on voice chat too which makes them able to time it even closer. Its near impossible to cast your shelter faster then.
..i..DemonX
08-07-04, 00:26
Thats true, as i saw on the vid not realy was a chance for Darken.
Cuz absolutly nobody can cast that uber fast if they spoke to each other and time it a lil like they do.
I really despise noob buffing, it's just the same as psi shield. You're using the ppu's own defenses against them and there's nothing the ppu can do about it. The best comparison would be if a normal Plasma Cannon could someone cause your CS to jam and stop firing. Or a Mendicant cause the Liberator to not work anymore, likewise for other weapons. It'd be quite amusing to see a capped Tank turned impotent by a PE with a Plasma Cannon. That's what noob buffs do to a PPU.
It's fine to have ways to kill ppu's, but make them official ways. Not shady tactics that abuse the game's interface. There is nothing inherent in Crahn Shelter that suggests it's meant to be used offensively to prevent a PPU from casting Holy Shelter. KK prolly hasn't fixed it because they're too busy to think of a kosher alternative. So instead they just leave it as is until they get a chance. That doesn't mean Shelter is meant to be used offensively!
..i..DemonX
08-07-04, 03:31
I really despise noob buffing, it's just the same as psi shield. You're using the ppu's own defenses against them and there's nothing the ppu can do about it. The best comparison would be if a normal Plasma Cannon could someone cause your CS to jam and stop firing. Or a Mendicant cause the Liberator to not work anymore, likewise for other weapons. It'd be quite amusing to see a capped Tank turned impotent by a PE with a Plasma Cannon. That's what noob buffs do to a PPU.
Haha that would be very funny to see!
Ye Carinth thats an good example! No one would want it to be like that, so why have it for ppus ?
and thats a good describtion for it "jamming spells".
tomparadox
08-07-04, 18:03
@Sovellis Its not a clever tactic its a lame tactic. It just takes the fun away, because you cant do anything about it, unless the apu is stupid enough to anti buff you again. But yes i agree its hard to take a ppu down. Almost impossible if by 1 runner, hard by 2 Runners and the more runners you have the easier it gets. But its supposed to be like that.
well, you know, unless its a 1 vs 1 ppu fight its a fine taketic i dont mind it.
Hell even in a 1 vs 1 fight i wouldent mind it.
See, ppus are vary hard to kill. Why the hell shouldent you be able to nOOb buff them? ffs they almost invinsible with a good setup and some skill...
its funny... Someone finds a way to kill PPUs, spreds the word, and all the fucking ppus screen "EXPLOIT" when its not...
well, you know, unless its a 1 vs 1 ppu fight its a fine taketic i dont mind it.
Hell even in a 1 vs 1 fight i wouldent mind it.
See, ppus are vary hard to kill. Why the hell shouldent you be able to nOOb buff them? ffs they almost invinsible with a good setup and some skill...
its funny... Someone finds a way to kill PPUs, spreds the word, and all the fucking ppus screen "EXPLOIT" when its not...
It's not about being killable, that's a different argument. Most PPU's are fine with all the official ways KK has given to kill a PPU. Namely, Anti Heal Drone/Spirit Modded SH/Antibuff. What we have a problem with is Noob Buffing, because it *is* not official and *was* not intended to be used like this. Please explain to me how a low level ppu spell could have been intended to be used offensively to prevent a PPU from casting their Holy version of the same spell. Is it written in the description of Crahn Shelter?
It is pure and simple an abuse of game mechanics, that KK hasn't done anything doesn't mean they intended it to be that way. A good example would be Zone Borders. Every single person who participates in pvp does or has at some point abused the Zone Border. You use it to slip into a safe zone or you use it to buy yourself some time to get away/recover from a fight. It is generaly agreed on that this is pathetic and ruins pvp, but we do it anyway. KK has not done anything specific to stop this, but does that mean Zone Borders were intended to be a defensive mechanism to allow players to escape? No, that's just silly. IT's exactly the same with noob buffs.
Again, I repeat, PPU's do not want this fixed because they want to be godlike/immortal. We'd be totaly happy with more antibuff's put in to replace the noob buffs. Of course that leads to a dif discussion on how killable ppu's should be, but the point is noob buffs are just wrong. It's not how you should be killing ppu's.
Promethius: The ideal solution is that we should be able to override lower buffs with higher ones. If you get a tl3 heal on a PPU, the PPU should be able to cast their holy heal and have it replace the existing tl3 heal. If the ppu isn't paying attention and doesn't notice he's been noob buffed, then sure he should die. But if a PPU does realize, he should be able to do something about it.
Promethius
08-07-04, 19:01
@Dark
I wasn't refering to the movie but in combat enemy ppus accidently tag heals on their opponents And i was saying i never hear people complaining about that. Not being able to noob heal a PPU make no sense. If a PPU can tag a heal on you whether u want it or not, it should be the same for a ppu. It may piss off the ppu but hey its a part of the game. Plus its not that easy to tag a heal on a good PPU. Cuz they kno when their heal runs out and others dont.
Edit:
@Carinth
If noobs can't cast buffs on PPUs then why should PPU's be able to cast heals on anyone? They aren't abusing game mechanics, its IN the game mechanics. PPU in its self, casts buffs on other chars, So if another PPU casts a lower buff on another PPU, where is the wrong doing? IMHO all you PPUs dislike this part of the game because its an affective way to bring down the all mighty PPU. Just remember If your holy heal is ON they can't do it. Time your heals so they can't do it. nuff said.
@Carinth again
And I want tanks to be able to run faster with cannons out because they are too slow imo. But you dont see me cryin about it. Just learn to deal with it.
-Prom
QuantumDelta
08-07-04, 21:19
Carinth makes the points best I think.
My oppinion of "Noob Buffs" = Exploit.
Said it before, will say it again;
Simply because my definition of exploiting is;
Using game dynamics that only exist because of lack of forthought to ones advantage -- using that game dynamic as not originally laid out..
Simply because the class has problems with it.
Well most of the problems with PPUs have been dealt with so I really see even that, argument as extremely weak.
Shadow Dancer
08-07-04, 21:45
It'd be quite amusing to see a capped Tank turned impotent by a PE with a Plasma Cannon.
Sure, just give that capped tank supreme defense and healing then.
You know what else would be amusing?(To help prove your point of course) If ppus could somehow reduce someone's speed to absolute shit and destroy their aiming, rendering them impotent. Then they would know how it feels.
Oh wait........
Carinth you dont speak for all ppus so dont act as if you do, if you are a good ppu and pay attention you either wont get noob buffed or even if you slip you would be surprised how much a tl3 heal and a holy heal sanc can out-heal with a good setup, downing a ppu should not be limited to apus droner and rifle spies and since KK havent introduced any other methods of downing ppus its all that certain classes have, like for god sake I know ppus who carry tl3 heals to noob buff other ppus with.
Edit:
@Carinth
If noobs can't cast buffs on PPUs then why should PPU's be able to cast heals on anyone? They aren't abusing game mechanics, its IN the game mechanics. PPU in its self, casts buffs on other chars, So if another PPU casts a lower buff on another PPU, where is the wrong doing? IMHO all you PPUs dislike this part of the game because its an affective way to bring down the all mighty PPU. Just remember If your holy heal is ON they can't do it. Time your heals so they can't do it. nuff said.
@Carinth again
And I want tanks to be able to run faster with cannons out because they are too slow imo. But you dont see me cryin about it. Just learn to deal with it.
-Prom
You are mistaken, the problem is not the ability to cast buffs on others. The problem is that a lower level buff prevents the casting of a higher level buff. If you Crahn Shelter someone they can nolonger use Crahn Holy Shelter, until the timer runs out.
Sure, just give that capped tank supreme defense and healing then.
You know what else would be amusing?(To help prove your point of course) If ppus could somehow reduce someone's speed to absolute shit and destroy their aiming, rendering them impotent. Then they would know how it feels.
Oh wait........
Your comment has no relevance whatsoever Shadow. The comparison is between a low level defense/high level defense and a low level offense/high level offense. Crahn Shelter renders Holy Shelter useless, thus a Plasma Cannon would render a Cursed Soul useless. Another would be Crahn Energy Bolt negating your Holy Lightning.
Carinth you dont speak for all ppus so dont act as if you do, if you are a good ppu and pay attention you either wont get noob buffed or even if you slip you would be surprised how much a tl3 heal and a holy heal sanc can out-heal with a good setup, downing a ppu should not be limited to apus droner and rifle spies and since KK havent introduced any other methods of downing ppus its all that certain classes have, like for god sake I know ppus who carry tl3 heals to noob buff other ppus with.
You are correct that I can't speak for all PPU's and I guess it's a little arrogant to act as if I can. But I'm one of the few PPU's that does actively debate PPU Issues on the forum. If you have a countering point of view as a PPU, please offer it.
For both you and Promethius: Neither of you have any idea what noob buffing is, I'm sorry. TL3 Heals are just a minor instance of the problem. As you said, Holy Heal Sanct does a good job at boosting even normal Crahn Heal to a decent level. I'm not that troubled by being TL3 Healed. I wasn't kidding when I said any PPU can be killed, regardless of skill. An APU/PPU team, preferably using TeamSpeak but its possible without, can kill any PPU. Debuff the PPU then immediatly shelter them with a Crahn Shelter. The PPU is now vulnerable to any energy or fire based weapon and will die very quickly if they don't run away. Please watch the video linked by the threadstarter. I've had it happen to me aswell, there is *nothing* you can do about it. Your only hope is that the APU/PPU Team does not have their timing down. If they allow a second delay or so, you can manage to recast your Shelter. But a good team, especialy using Teamspeak, will not give you that second.
Again if you time your own shelter cast right you can get your own cast up if you misjudge you made a mistake and one that you may well die for but even then a holy heal and holy heal sanc should be enough to keep you alive if you arent being completely ganked, even if you die you made a mistake with a wrong cast time, shit happens you get repoked and go out to fight again.
With overriding buffs it would be possible to keep shelters and heals up 100% of the time which just isnt right there should always be gaps in a ppus defense to be exploited.
I have 2 ppus one on uranus of 87 base psi and one on venus with 97 base psi and I think noob buffs should be kept until all classes have some way of combating ppus.
tomparadox
08-07-04, 23:21
It's not about being killable, that's a different argument. Most PPU's are fine with all the official ways KK has given to kill a PPU. Namely, Anti Heal Drone/Spirit Modded SH/Antibuff. What we have a problem with is Noob Buffing, because it *is* not official and *was* not intended to be used like this. Please explain to me how a low level ppu spell could have been intended to be used offensively to prevent a PPU from casting their Holy version of the same spell. Is it written in the description of Crahn Shelter?
It is pure and simple an abuse of game mechanics, that KK hasn't done anything doesn't mean they intended it to be that way. A good example would be Zone Borders. Every single person who participates in pvp does or has at some point abused the Zone Border. You use it to slip into a safe zone or you use it to buy yourself some time to get away/recover from a fight. It is generaly agreed on that this is pathetic and ruins pvp, but we do it anyway. KK has not done anything specific to stop this, but does that mean Zone Borders were intended to be a defensive mechanism to allow players to escape? No, that's just silly. IT's exactly the same with noob buffs.
Again, I repeat, PPU's do not want this fixed because they want to be godlike/immortal. We'd be totaly happy with more antibuff's put in to replace the noob buffs. Of course that leads to a dif discussion on how killable ppu's should be, but the point is noob buffs are just wrong. It's not how you should be killing ppu's. ffs, bullshit.
You know, jest because KK has not said in stone that THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT dosent meen it is. Think about it, KK has known for aparently a while, because its been going on for a while. Aparently it isent an exploit Or they would have said something by now.
I still think this is the stupidest crap iv ever herd, even if i had a ppu i would not care about being nOOb buffed, its a tacktic, not an exploit.
Say its a 1 vs 2 fight, 1 PE, vs 1 tank and a ppu, the only way the PE will win is to take out the PPU probly, to do that you need to nOOb buff him, because a PE dosent have anti buff gun or something.
The anti heal drone is ok, and the SH is ok, the APUs anti buff sucks ass i hardly see anyone useing it. Not everyone has a damn SH/antibuff/anti heal drone, so how the hell is a tank suposed to kill a ppu? speed gat whont do much if hes good, you half to wait till his buffs go off and cast a nOOb def on him then hit him with a TGC/Speed gat in order for the tank to win.
But please, explain to me how the hell a PE/TANk/pistol spy is suposed to kill a caped ppu in a 1 vs 2 fight?
edit:
I have 2 ppus one on uranus of 87 base psi and one on venus with 97 base psi and I think noob buffs should be kept until all classes have some way of combating ppus.
i agree to that and mostly all of your post ^nuff said...
Shadow Dancer
08-07-04, 23:24
Your comment has no relevance whatsoever Shadow. The comparison is between a low level defense/high level defense and a low level offense/high level offense. Crahn Shelter renders Holy Shelter useless, thus a Plasma Cannon would render a Cursed Soul useless. Another would be Crahn Energy Bolt negating your Holy Lightning.
Your comparison is bad IMO. See the ppu is "special". The ppu doesn't have "high" defense like the apu has high offense for instance. The ppu has "supreme" defense. This is evidenced by the fact that a good ppu will not die if he's not antibuffed. Can a good apu die? Yes, even in a 1v1. The most SUPREME apu(using apus, since they have best offense) can still die in a 1v1. The most SUPREME ppu will NOT die in a 1v3948394, unless he's antibuffed or somehow stripped of his shelter. KK recognised this and implemented anti-shelter. Then anti-heal drone, then SH mod. That's why your comparison is off. Because no one has "Supreme" offense, the same way a ppu has supreme defense. Sorry if my heart doesn't weep for ppus, :p.
Let me put it this way. On a scale of 1-10, the APU would have an offense of 10. Whereas the ppu would have a defense of 25.
Maybe if one of the other classes were able to take out a whole team by themself(the same way a ppu can protect/shield a whole team), then it would be justifiable to "weapon jam" them with the spell you are using in your analogy.
My main point is, no it's not ok to jam someone's weapon or main ability. Assuming it's "normal" or on par with other classes. For example, let's say there was a TL 2 shelter, noob buffing a PE would be stupid and unfair IMO. But a ppu? I think it's totally justified, considering their defense. Remember, it's all about balance and checks. Obviously giving an apu PE defense would be idiotic. Why? His low defense balances out his high offense.
SO you can't just look at why something is a certain way with a class, you have to look at the whole class to see if that tactic(or whatever) is justified.
Btw, a noob buffed PPU can still heal/buff other people.
You know, jest because KK has not said in stone that THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT dosent meen it is.
See Tom, that's the funny part. KK HAS SAID that it's not an exploit. ;)
tomparadox
08-07-04, 23:29
Your comparison is bad IMO. See the ppu is "special". The ppu doesn't have "high" defense like the apu has high offense for instance. The ppu has "supreme" defense. This is evidenced by the fact that a good ppu will not die if he's not antibuffed. Can a good apu die? Yes, even in a 1v1. The most SUPREME apu(using apus, since they have best offense) can still die in a 1v1. The most SUPREME ppu will NOT die in a 1v3948394, unless he's antibuffed or somehow stripped of his shelter. KK recognised this and implemented anti-shelter. Then anti-heal drone, then SH mod. That's why your comparison is off. Because no one has "Supreme" offense, the same way a ppu has supreme defense. Sorry if my heart doesn't weep for ppus, :p.
Let me put it this way. On a scale of 1-10, the APU would have an offense of 10. Whereas the ppu would have a defense of 25.
Maybe if one of the other classes were able to take out a whole team by themself(the same way a ppu can protect/shield a whole team), then it would be justifiable to "weapon jam" them with the spell you are using in your analogy.
My main point is, no it's not ok to jam someone's weapon or main ability. Assuming it's "normal" or on par with other classes. For example, let's say there was a TL 2 shelter, noob buffing a PE would be stupid and unfair IMO. But a ppu? I think it's totally justified, considering their defense. Remember, it's all about balance and checks. Obviously giving an apu PE defense would be idiotic. Why? His low defense balances out his high offense.
SO you can't just look at why something is a certain way with a class, you have to look at the whole class to see if that tactic(or whatever) is justified.
i agree 1000% nuff said...
@tomoparadox you miss the point a PPU is not supposed to die to single runners unless hes bad. It should take alot of ppl to kill him as he should have the highest defence ever.
@snow Dude watch the Video ! If its timed right you dont have any chance at all to rebuff yourself faster!
@shadow sure the apu can die in a 1vs1 because he is the high offense one, not the defense one. The ppu shouldnt die in 1vs1 neither easy in an 1vs2. Its the only thing he has ! he has no way of dealing dmg his only proud and joy to play him is the ability to survive almost every situation
@all stop this exagerating, its not like the ppu isss soo unkillable if you dont noob buff and you all know it because you already did it. PPL could kill ppus before without noob buffs why cant they do it now ?
shadow: I think you're missing the point. The comparison was to illustrate how ridiculous it is to consider noob buffs a legit/valid tactic. The use of a low level defensive spell to counteract a high level defensive spell? That is just the same as a low level offensive weapon counteracting a high level offensive weapon.
I understand your argument, but I still don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. Your argument is that noob buffs are justified because ppu's are defensive masters, wereas a noob weapon is not justified because noone is an offensive master. If you replace noob buffs with "legit ppu killing mechanism such as antibuff", then I agree with you. As I said the issue here is not about how hard it is to kill PPU's, the issue is using Noob Buffs to do it.
Everyone: I repeat for the umpteenth time, you can not use KK's lack of response as approval and official support. Their reason is probably very simple: We are too busy to figure out a better way to kill ppu's, so we'll just leave it the way it is. If you look at KK's history they typicaly only tackle serious problems. They have spent most of their time working on DOY, supposedly. On their scale, Noob Buffing is not very high priority. If I thought for a bit, I could come up with lots of bugs/imbalances/problems that KK has done nothing about. I don't assume that means KK meant that to happen or endorses it.
And I want tanks to be able to run faster with cannons out because they are too slow imo. But you dont see me cryin about it. Just learn to deal with it.
-Prom
maybe we should start crying about it ;)
Shadow Dancer
09-07-04, 00:46
@shadow sure the apu can die in a 1vs1 because he is the high offense one, not the defense one. The ppu shouldnt die in 1vs1 neither easy in an 1vs2. Its the only thing he has ! he has no way of dealing dmg his only proud and joy to play him is the ability to survive almost every situation
Oook. Let me spell it out for you. Having the highest offense doesn't mean an apu should be a god that can kill entire armies with a spell. Similarly having the highest defense doesn't mean a ppu should be a god that requires an army to kill.
shadow: I think you're missing the point. The comparison was to illustrate how ridiculous it is to consider noob buffs a legit/valid tactic. The use of a low level defensive spell to counteract a high level defensive spell? That is just the same as a low level offensive weapon counteracting a high level offensive weapon.
*Yes*, I understood that Car.
First of all, defense is not supposed to "stack". Offense and defense both have different rules. So you can't make an exact analogy between them Car. :rolleyes: If 2 people cast a holy shelter on you, you're only going to get the effect of one holy shelter. If 2 people hit you with a CS, you get double damage. If 2 people cast holy heal on you, only 1 stack. 2 poisons? 2 stacks.
So in your analogy,(which makes no sense if you think about it ;)) a heavy cannon using PE wouldn't ovveride a tank's CS, he would add to it.
I understand your argument, but I still don't see how it's relevant to this discussion. Your argument is that noob buffs are justified because ppu's are defensive masters, wereas a noob weapon is not justified because noone is an offensive master. If you replace noob buffs with "legit ppu killing mechanism such as antibuff", then I agree with you. As I said the issue here is not about how hard it is to kill PPU's, the issue is using Noob Buffs to do it.
I consider it a legit ppu killing mechanism. Not an oversight. And I think this because..........(down below)
Everyone: I repeat for the umpteenth time, you can not use KK's lack of response as approval and official support.
Carbonite said OFFICIALLY IT'S A TACTIC and not an exploit. That's not a lack of response. thx
What more do you want? For Martin J to write you a personal letter detailing how this is ok? :p
Promethius
09-07-04, 00:47
Your comparison is bad IMO. See the ppu is "special". The ppu doesn't have "high" defense like the apu has high offense for instance. The ppu has "supreme" defense. This is evidenced by the fact that a good ppu will not die if he's not antibuffed. Can a good apu die? Yes, even in a 1v1. The most SUPREME apu(using apus, since they have best offense) can still die in a 1v1. The most SUPREME ppu will NOT die in a 1v3948394, unless he's antibuffed or somehow stripped of his shelter. KK recognised this and implemented anti-shelter. Then anti-heal drone, then SH mod. That's why your comparison is off. Because no one has "Supreme" offense, the same way a ppu has supreme defense. Sorry if my heart doesn't weep for ppus, :p.
Let me put it this way. On a scale of 1-10, the APU would have an offense of 10. Whereas the ppu would have a defense of 25.
Maybe if one of the other classes were able to take out a whole team by themself(the same way a ppu can protect/shield a whole team), then it would be justifiable to "weapon jam" them with the spell you are using in your analogy.
My main point is, no it's not ok to jam someone's weapon or main ability. Assuming it's "normal" or on par with other classes. For example, let's say there was a TL 2 shelter, noob buffing a PE would be stupid and unfair IMO. But a ppu? I think it's totally justified, considering their defense. Remember, it's all about balance and checks. Obviously giving an apu PE defense would be idiotic. Why? His low defense balances out his high offense.
SO you can't just look at why something is a certain way with a class, you have to look at the whole class to see if that tactic(or whatever) is justified.
Btw, a noob buffed PPU can still heal/buff other people.
See Tom, that's the funny part. KK HAS SAID that it's not an exploit. ;)
pwned - close thread.
maybe we should start crying about it ;)
When this thread closes i'll start up one of those 'boost my class' threads.
I consider it a legit ppu killing mechanism. Not an oversight. And I think this because..........(down below)
Carbonite said OFFICIALLY IT'S A TACTIC and not an exploit. That's not a lack of response. thx
What more do you want? For Martin J to write you a personal letter detailing how this is ok? :p
I must have missed that : ( Last I checked tho Carbonite was a GM, not a KK Employee. I could be mistaken though, it's been a while. Also, you might be taking it out of the context he said it in. To call something an exploit is to declare it illegal/punishable by KK. Since KK obviously does not do this for Noob Buffing, then it's easy to say it's not an exploit. Which is why I call it an Abuse of game mechanics, which is the definition of Exploit, but could also include acitivies which are not as serious.
Opening trade window on someone to slow them down during PvP or to steal their belt, are examples of abusing game mechanics. KK does not consider this an exploit, you will not be punished for doing it, but can you seriously say KK intends us to use the trade window to improve our chances in PVP?
If I'm wrong though and KK really does intend us to be noob buffing each other as a valid way to kill PPU's, then I'm done. Playing a PPU is difficult enough, with the community against me, with a ridiculous list of imbalances/bugs/problems stacked against me, and now to know KK doesn't care either.. would be too much.
tomparadox
09-07-04, 01:18
@tomoparadox you miss the point a PPU is not supposed to die to single runners unless hes bad. It should take alot of ppl to kill him as he should have the highest defence ever.
@snow Dude watch the Video ! If its timed right you dont have any chance at all to rebuff yourself faster!
@shadow sure the apu can die in a 1vs1 because he is the high offense one, not the defense one. The ppu shouldnt die in 1vs1 neither easy in an 1vs2. Its the only thing he has ! he has no way of dealing dmg his only proud and joy to play him is the ability to survive almost every situation
@all stop this exagerating, its not like the ppu isss soo unkillable if you dont noob buff and you all know it because you already did it. PPL could kill ppus before without noob buffs why cant they do it now ? Im not going to make another post in this forum because i might end up flameing something because i think this topic is so stupid. I agree with shadow espeshialy after hearing carb said its a vallit tacktic.
seriosly, you get nOOb buffed, you die. you lose. Tough shit deel with it, go get repoked and try again if you whant.
edit:
@Carinth (http://forum.neocron.com/member.php?u=9506) , i think hes a dev look at his avatar. He used to be the assistent cheif gamemaster i think. Then he got promoted to dev, lest thats what he told me...
Shadow Dancer
09-07-04, 01:34
Opening trade window on someone to slow them down during PvP or to steal their belt, are examples of abusing game mechanics. KK does not consider this an exploit
Because you can disable trade.
If I'm wrong though and KK really does intend us to be noob buffing each other as a valid way to kill PPU's, then I'm done. Playing a PPU is difficult enough, with the community against me, with a ridiculous list of imbalances/bugs/problems stacked against me, and now to know KK doesn't care either.. would be too much.
How come you don't start threads to help out ppus? :p How come you don't fight against other ppus who are wrong, but only against the people that want ppus nerfed?
PPU is hard to balance. PPus make matters worse car and you know it. EVERY SINGLE SUGGESTION that is put out there to balance em, is shot down by most ppus. The ppu class is fine to most ppus. No problem at all with being over-important. You don't seem to make any speeches to those ppus. What you are seeing is the hybrid syndrome. You play "dead" and act like there's no problem, then you get smacked. What do you expect?(not you in particular car)
But obviously Shadow an apu could kill an entire army with one spell he just does not stay that long alive, without ppu.
And i didnt say its an exploit !
I just said that something should be done over it !
Shadow Dancer
09-07-04, 02:34
But obviously Shadow an apu could kill an entire army with one spell he just does not stay that long alive, without ppu.
:rolleyes:
And i didnt say its an exploit !
I just said that something should be done over it !
I know you don't think it's an exploit, I was talking about Carinth.
Today at tyron, I was the last surviving mamber of our op team on my ppu, basically I only got there at the end and by then nearly everyone was down, but it took 3 apus constantly anti-buffing me and 2 melee tanks chopping away to take me down and thats not including opposing ppus, in fairness 2 apus probably would of done the job, but thats still 4 people excluding ppus to take down 1 and thats not right, if they had anti-buffed me and tl3 deflectored me it still would of taken 3 to take me down and im presuming my heal and heal sanc wouldnt of kept me alive with a tl 3 def on.
It still takes atleast 2 people to take down a ppu and if they have the coordination and timing right to do so they deserve to take down a ppu.
Snow its supposed that the ppu dies not that easy, so ppl should stop complaining that they cant kill a ppu alone or with 2 ppl (well ok sometimes 2 ppl are enough to kill a ppu like 1 guy is sometimes enough too).
You are big a whiner!
Want to be a god? ....*"$!$%!"§&!"§$//!§! !!!!
Sorry for my shitty writing style that post before,
but i just want to say..... what char in Neocron has the time while a battle to change his chat channels, update his belt(lol only 1 booster) and dont need to care a bout dieing? Just standing / running around..bla
YOU JUST DIDNT REALIZED THE ATB THATS IT....*DOH! Just had your antifreeze in your hand... wow.
Next time better notice that rezz spell in the apu s hand ;) and try to get some skills in Neofrag.
If you look closely, alot of people who actually play PPUs have put up suggestions to balance them in PvP.
It's the morons who want to be 'TEH UBAR PEEKAY DOODZ' and have their class the best.
Some ideas are shot down because they're stupid. Plain. And. Simple.
QuantumDelta
11-07-04, 13:56
Quite right 2ply.
--
Dispite my best efforts I've realised that, PPUs are no longer "Gods" in the battlefield, sure, they can last longer than anyone else these days still _IF THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB_
A PPU who is the last person on the field most of the time will be the type of PPU who only play that char because of that defence.
Exceptions of course are the type of situation that snow was talking about earlier (him arriving very late).
Back in the old days my PPU, whilst parad, crawled, out in the open, vs I think (someone'll correct me I'm sure) 30 people, APUs with HAB, Tanks with Dev, PPUs with Para, damage boost, etc, -- Crawled, from Shirkan Underground to the GenRep and Repped out because we'd been guarding the UG and no one thought to tell us there was a fight going on upstairs.
I also remember rezzing people whilst being chased around Chester by 12 or so skilled PvPers (including PPU/APUs and noob buffers), then keeping those rezzies alive for about 2 minutes.
Typically the same kinda things that you hear from Pete the PSI/Polarity/etc/etc -- Keeping Sam Osa (on his PE) alive long enough to kill a PPU, and 5 other PEs in the same room at the same time (well ok he died once :p).
PPUs are by no means that godly anymore, with anti heal drones, APUs that actually know how to use HAB/HAS, Silent Hunter, damage boost, parashock, and madly overpowered melee damage (providing that certain bugs can't be exploited to stop melee from doing much damage).
People take PPUs out of context when analyising them and these days spend a lot of their time not looking at the present.
A few of the lesser skilled PPUs I've met, have simply stood there at op wars watching, and when kicked/asked to do something they've said "What's the point? If I go to rezz someone I'll get meleepwned. If I go to heal someone they get anti healed, and if I go to para someone I run outta mana .. so uhh what am I here for?" << Admittedly, that's a bit of an overstatement, but to a degree it's true, if up against a good team, a ppu can litterally do nothing because all of his abilities have nullifiers -- unlike every other class, where the only 'ability nullifier' is para, which....wait....has more than two counters to it because it's a ppu spell....
--
Therefore I really don't see the problem with giving people to option to overbuff their spells.
It's not even like this ability harms anyone, simply that PPUs feel less abused by the system, like hybrids did.
Remove PPUs.
Problem solved.
QuantumDelta
11-07-04, 14:16
Remind me to start spanking you regularly sigma :p
Remind me to start spanking you regularly sigma :p
Remove QD, too.
Another Problem solve. :p
I think overriding noob buffs is a must. But it should only come along with major changes to the PPU. As QD and Car point out, if a PPU tries to do his job and help his team, he can quite easily end up dead. If he ignores his team and stays alive, he can do so for quite some time, if the opposition is lacking in APUs/Spirit mods/Mosquitoes then some time can become indefinitely.
IMO the PPU who helps his team should be rewarded for it, and the PPU who is on his own should be weak. The PPU is a pure team player, and provides a massive boost to a team. So I think it makes sense that the PPU should also draw his strength from his team. Something like a remote PSI shield - the PPU casts it on a team mate, and damage the PPU takes drains partially from the team mates PSI pool (Note: I mean additions along these lines, not this suggestion alone). At the same time reduce Holy S/D/H to the extent that a teamed up PPU is well protected, but a lone PPU is not.
Before you say it Carinth, I'm well aware that you don't feel PPUs can be protected effectively by their teams in this game. Well I reckon there is a way, and that way needs to be found, because it doesn't look like this is the end of antibuff weapons.
Regarding PPUs and ideas, yes, there are several PPUs who have made decent suggestions regarding changes that could be made. But Shadow is right - they are only really vocal in threads started by other people. They don't start their own threads about what they think could be done, and when someone suggests an idea to make PPUs even stronger they sit quietly and say nothing.
I agree that things should be changed about the ppu, i would also have no problem if para gets removed.
But something should be done about noob buffs.
@Bling dude sure i seen the anti buff but you have no chance of rebuffing.
Maybe KK could do a ppu work over, make noob buffs overcastable, remove para, lower foreign shields ? Theres been lots of good ideas
There are so many things I would want to change for the PPU, that I wouldn't know where to begin. From the ground up we'd need a rework, and beyond that many things about how Monks work would need to be changed. I don't start new threads or present my ideas that often because I can't come up with any simple way to fix the PPU. That's what KK wants, a simple fix. Some small modification/addition/subtraction/etc, that will make the ppu more balanced. I simply can't come up with something like that. So while I could go on and post some really good ideas, I have little doubt they'll just be ignored due to complexity.
When I first played a PPU in a pvp situation, I realized one major flaw in the concept. The PPU is obviously derived from a Cleric Type in other mmorpgs, setting aside the odd lack offense which other Clercs usualy have, there is another problem. These Clerics exist in turn based rpgs, Neocron is a fps based rpg. Introducing a class which relies on a half a dozen spells for himself and over a dozen other spells for other people into a fps combat system is a recipe for disaster. For PVM the combat is slowed down enough that a PPU can do his job very effectively, he has time to manage everything going on. For PVP there is noway a PPU can keep up with combat. Fights are over within minutes, it's simply inhuman to expect players to manage this. And ontop of keeping his team alive, the ppu has to keep himself alive too.
It's like you learn to cross the street inside some quiet suburb with slow drivers and plenty of time to notice cars are coming. That would be PVM, then here's PVP. You're suddenly dropped in the middle of a multilane Highway with cars flying by in both directions. A single step in the wrong direction and/or wrong time will get you killed. And ontop of that you have 6 school kids, takin a field trip, with you.
It is literaly impossible for a human to do this. What good PPU's learn is to be calm and to be able to pick from the bazillion things a PPU should be doing, what will help my team the most. PPU's are by far the most strategic of the classes, which makes sense if you believe they belong in a turn based combat game. In turn based combat it's all about picking what skill/ability to use at the right time. But again, Neocron isn't turn based.
The Cleric role can exist in FPS combat, there are examples in most team based multiplayer fps'. For example in my favorite (Wolf ET), this is the Medic. What's the difference? The Medic is specialized and focused on one or two of the Cleric roles. In WolfET the Medic heals and revives dead teamates, that's it. Of course WolfET is a bad example because the Medic is overpowered, but the idea is sound. If you focus the PPU and give him a specific purpose you'll find the class much easier to balance and much less prone to nervous breakdowns.
Lowering the PPU's defenses and making them dependant on a team to stay alive is a great idea, I've presented ways to do that myself before. A PPU is only dependant on others for killing people/things. Defensive matters are entirely in the hands of the PPU, both his own and his teams. To make the PPU dependant on his team for his own defense is perfect. This lessons the burden on a PPU's shoulder and at the same time makes non PPU's more important. A Team should be interdependant, not all depend on the PPU. Personaly I would like to see Tanks actualy take up the role of Tanking.
I'd like to have it be the Tank's job to protect the Team's PPU. Well I should say, one of the Tank's jobs. Obviously most Tanks will be combat specialists killing people, but some could become real Tanks and be able to protect a single person. By protect, I mean either all or most damage done to Target is deflected to the Tank instead. In this mode a Tank's defenses would need to be amplified to something like that of a Mob. He'd need thousands of hp. The balancing part is that he can't move, and the PPU can't support him. The PPU is supporting the rest of the team, if he could support the one protecting him we'd be back to square one. Also it could be done with a Timer and Drug Flash like for Stealth.
Thats an example of my ideas for PPU's, and I have no doubt that will never happen. So I don't particularly feel the need to start a new thread and discuss an idea that will go nowhere. I've done plenty enough of that in the past. It'll spend a few days here with pretty much the same people saying yes/no and then it'll fade away among all the other old threads.
Personally I'd rather see all antibuff resources removed, and higher TL buffs override lower ones, but not without some kind of compromise to balance the PPU role.
At my eyes PPUs have offence, and a very good one. They can vastly enhance their teams in any combat related situation, to the point that they have become essential for top level PvP and PvM. This role combined with the disproportionate defence available for the class, unbalanced the combat completely regardless of the situation. Hence KK introduced new antibuff weapons to make most annoying the PPU practice, which IMO solve very little in reality.
Of course I understand that a PPU, in other to fullfill his team supporting role, needs some sort of extra defence or otherwise they would be the first to die in battle. However this has been the excuse for people that cannot stand dying, who jumped in the class just for the wrong reasons, and these are pretty much the troublemakers when ideas to fix it are suggested.
From my point of view the PPU should be reliant on his team as much as they rely on him. This means that in order to survive the PPU has to perform his role with 100% devotion, should he fail, he loses the defence granted by his team.
Countless times we have pointed that PPUs are imbalanced, just to see it falling in the deaf ears of most PPUs. Well, people have worked their way around this, and now the complains arrive.
Is noob buffing a lame tactic then? I agree that it is
But it has been created out of a different problem, that should not be excluded from this discussion, just because "it is not the purpose of the thread".
ok, simply put...........if a ppu wants to run around and laugh at folks tryin to kill him till his buffs where off ,or try to get into the fight where apu's are present and using debuffer then the fuckers are putting them selves at risk that this will happen so my suggestion is buff up in a safe spot then join the battle if buffs run you better run to
if you dont like being noob buffed then dont fight.........
i hear it on trade all the time, like two little bitches trying to degrade each other in public when EVERYBODY does it ...if you get noob buffed its your own damn fault
people chose to go ppu for only 2 reasons: they are either doing it cause the want to be helpfull to their clan or because the think they are gonna be all uber and never die cause they died so much on their other chars.......or the lamest of all especially on pluto...... to double log and buff their fighting characters... cause nobody likes them enough to buff them..... :mad:
Its not really that hard to kill a ppu that ppl should use TL3 heal. And u can kill ppus without having apu to antibuff em. It might take time and the right timing, but it aint that hard.. having a ppu damage boosting and para spamming him should do the trick.
@tiikari right see ppl theres other ways then noobbuffs
@carinth got point and ideas
Like i say in th FR Forum (sorry i dont read here, maybe its already say) :
Drugs for remove heal or shelter or deflect or all the other buff
(also sorry for bad english)
Fuck me.... fucking good timing GG cannings
QuantumDelta
30-08-04, 03:24
Like i say in th FR Forum (sorry i dont read here, maybe its already say) :
Drugs for remove heal or shelter or deflect or all the other buff
(also sorry for bad english)
Pointless, ineffective.
Hell it's ineffective enough against para even now why would it be more effective against weapons with better frequency and more runcastability?
overriding is useless
noob buffing and healing is one of the many ways of killing PPUs
im a ppu on Saturn and i dont really mind, it took 1 tank, 1 PE, 2 apus, and 2 spies 40 minutes to kill me, using HL + HAB + CS + Slasher + Libby + Poisonbeams + FA. if you actually paid attention to how long it takes you to completely buff you might have a less chance of dying.. :p
It's a valid tactic, a ppu should keep his buffs up and time them constantly in a fight. And then keep track of his team's.
Which makes a ppu a damn hard class to play honestly.
You can't noob buff a good ppu....
Before anyone says anything, I have a PPU on Saturn.
Which makes a ppu a damn hard class to play honestly.
You can't noob buff a good ppu....
PPUs can be quite frustrating to play too, as you have to insure your team survives, and if you don't you feel responsible for it. Same as a tank may feel resposible for not killing the APU that just dropped the guy hacking the 3rd layer of an OP.
Even if you can noob buff a PPU, chances are they were expecting it and already have something to counter it ready for when they need it. On my PPU I have yet to die from noob buffing. But there is a reason to this. At the OP wars I turn up to the enemy only ever resort to noob buffing when everyone else is dead or buggered off except me. In this case I am trying to GR out, so I tend to have all buffs on, including Holy Carth Sanct and Holy Heal Sanct. Until multiple people try unbuffing me at once, I have no trouble.
HOWEVER this doesn't make it a valid tactic. I agree with Carinth, and the example given is a perfect example of why noob buffing is a piss-take.
Oh and...
In war you do what you have to win, this isnt an exploit, this is a tactic, and if it is used correctly and to an effect then yes, it is clever.
Ever heard of the Geneva Convention? It banned a lot of "tactics" that were used to win wars. So they won wars, but it didn't make them right. Punching guards will make you win a fight (as long as you aren't hostile to them :rolleyes: ) but it doesn't make it right. Noob buffing will could make you win a fight, but it doesn't make it right.
it may not be right.. but
whoever said fights were fair? :rolleyes:
/edit
damn right PPU is an agrivating job, if your the only PPU for a 5 man team, better have them slotted group buffs and regular buffs + heals ready o_O people are gonna be saying "GIMME A GOD DAMN SHELTER FFS"
Ever heard of the Geneva Convention? It banned a lot of "tactics" that were used to win wars. So they won wars, but it didn't make them right. Punching guards will make you win a fight (as long as you aren't hostile to them :rolleyes: ) but it doesn't make it right. Noob buffing will could make you win a fight, but it doesn't make it right.
C'mon let's be honest here.
There hasn't been a war since the convention where those rules weren't broken.
In every war, pow have been executed instead of taken to a camp. Mistreatment of prisoners during interrogation on both sides, "collateral dammage civilian casualties" , ......
Once a war starts and you are in the middle of "hell", meaning sleepless nights, being under fire, stressed up to your neck, constant fear, buddies being torn to a hump of bleeding flesh and guts...... people cange then.
One of the group starts doing bad stuff, and pretty soon it all seems "normal".
The only point then i to stay alive and kill as many "bad" guys as you can, no matter what.
My opinion: war is such a sick and fucked up thing in itself, that just speaking of "rules" for it is disgusting.
Best thing for wars is, to fight them out as quick as possible.
And hell yes, noob buffing is a valid tactic. Try taking out a ppu without it and don't have a spirit modded sh. Will take a looooong time and maaaaany people.
Try taking out a ppu without it and don't have a spirit modded sh. Will take a looooong time and maaaaany people.
Or it takes 1 APU with Anti-Shield and another damage dealer if you are fast enough.
Oh wait, wait, i got another one........
can't believe i forgot that :-)
It takes ONE RHINO to take a ppu down :-)
Oh wait, wait, i got another one........
can't believe i forgot that :-)
It takes ONE RHINO to take a ppu down :-)
One Rhino = $4death in a nutshell
(wow, what a bad pun, lol)
Darken,
From the very beginning of this thread you seem to paint a very nice picture of yourselfs never doing this or other 'lame' tactics.
Let us not forget for the most part it was TG and in particular your clan and another that killed pluto a few months back, due to 'lame' tactics such as zerging, turret drops, noob buffing and the list goes on.
The people that play have not changed and these tactics continue take a look at your own clan before you use ours as a example.
Back on topic, if you can't see a anti buff coming and prepare then you deserve to get a buff that may be foriegn.
Listen I took down 3 ppus with a damn spy you don't need to be noob buffed to be taken out either way cannings is damn good at what he does end of story.
If they change the way it works fine cannings will still be cannings and still be as skillful as before and we as a clan will still take ppl out, it won't change though because time and time again KK staff have said it's a valid tactic.
Get over it!
EVERY PPU CAN BE KILLED WITHOUT NOOB BUFFING
so true
One Rhino = $4death in a nutshell
(wow, what a bad pun, lol)
Hehehehe,
My clannies are comming back, basicaly just leveling up a bit, doing some preparations for the move.
In a couple of weeks, we'll be back, vehiclewhoring as usual :-)
Underground
30-08-04, 12:02
There is skill to it, working as a team, and knowing your partner etc. Cannings woulda seen the antibuff being casted then cast the nub shelt just at the right time to go on you prettymuch instantly, yea its lme, but ea we picked it up from your clan :) Remember when your clan used to have 2-3 PE's at OP fights that rarely even drew weapons ? Just turrets and TL3 heals ? Woopin in particular.
Hehehehe,
My clannies are comming back, basicaly just leveling up a bit, doing some preparations for the move.
In a couple of weeks, we'll be back, vehiclewhoring as usual :-)
Time to put our Anti-Vehicular rocket launchers to use then :p
Still got 16 rhino's in storage, lemme know when you need target practice :-)
PPUing for a random APU is harder than PPUing for an APU u always play with.
i know as PPU how long my friends antibuff takes, so i can cast the nib shelter soon as its over.
with other APUs which dont cap their antibuff its a bit harder to calculate the time (still hella easy tho)
its fun seeing a PPU take 145 dmg from holy lightning :D
how else would u kill a truely godlike PPU ?
only noobbuffing works for the real deals.
still noobbuffing doesnt mean a dead PPU tho, psi shield and get ur friend to antibuff u helps.
i dont get why people still argue about this...
anyways leave it in and give me a spell to change a tank`s cs to a tpc, judges to ryker pistols and sh`s to commando rifles.
thanks ;)
all you people who say you cant kill a ppu the normal way are either talking about a 1o1 or you just plain suck.
i dont get why people still argue about this...
anyways leave it in and give me a spell to change a tank`s cs to a tpc, judges to ryker pistols and sh`s to commando rifles.
thanks ;)
It should be that people automaticly switch to and equip any weapon thrown at them. So if a Tank is blastin you with his CS, you throw a Plasma Cannon at him he'll swap to it for a short amount of time. Spy annoying you with his uber Spirit Mod Silent Hunter? Just throw a street rifle at him!
Shadow Dancer
30-08-04, 18:48
It should be that people automaticly switch to and equip any weapon thrown at them. So if a Tank is blastin you with his CS, you throw a Plasma Cannon at him he'll swap to it for a short amount of time. Spy annoying you with his uber Spirit Mod Silent Hunter? Just throw a street rifle at him!
KK would have to implement a special attack for other classes to unequip the tank's weapon or the spy's rifle. THEN you can quickly throw a bad weapon at them before they equip their weapon.
Just trying to make your analogy more accurate. :)
overriding is useless
noob buffing and healing is one of the many ways of killing PPUs
im a ppu on Saturn and i dont really mind, it took 1 tank, 1 PE, 2 apus, and 2 spies 40 minutes to kill me, using HL + HAB + CS + Slasher + Libby + Poisonbeams + FA. if you actually paid attention to how long it takes you to completely buff you might have a less chance of dying..
BULLSHIT!!!
Zoning in and out of pepper park doesnt count... Either that, or the players
shooting you were nothing but pure shit.
Darken,
From the very beginning of this thread you seem to paint a very nice picture of yourselfs never doing this or other 'lame' tactics.
Let us not forget for the most part it was TG and in particular your clan and another that killed pluto a few months back, due to 'lame' tactics such as zerging, turret drops, noob buffing and the list goes on.
The people that play have not changed and these tactics continue take a look at your own clan before you use ours as a example.
Back on topic, if you can't see a anti buff coming and prepare then you deserve to get a buff that may be foriegn.
Listen I took down 3 ppus with a damn spy you don't need to be noob buffed to be taken out either way cannings is damn good at what he does end of story.
If they change the way it works fine cannings will still be cannings and still be as skillful as before and we as a clan will still take ppl out, it won't change though because time and time again KK staff have said it's a valid tactic.
Get over it!
I agree, everybody does it, and I do it, and our clan has done it, and every
other clan has done it, but, it's still lame and id rather see it removed then
everybody doing it.
Debuffing and rebuffing PPUs is a very clever method of taking them down. I honestly can't see the problem in it, at all.
I agree. Use the game mechanics to your advantage. Of course, it'll be taken out because those that perceive it to be unfair fail to realise its a tactic. Foreign cast psi shield was great as well ;)
well i got a ppu and i say no :lol:
it is the only way to take a ppu down, though i gotta admit it pisses me off when im in plaza rdy to gr and before i have chance to cast buffs some nib gives me basic resist 1 and drone buff 1 :lol:
JustIn_Case
30-08-04, 21:18
:( Movie link doesnt work anymore
It's the first one on nc.syn's video section (http://nc.synergyxr.net/files.php?cat=videos).
Jees, this thread is quite old.
#1: Stop the noob buffing exploit.
#2: Lower PPU Defences to compinsate.
#3: Do a little dance.
lowering ppus defenses with buffs might do the trick.. but that means melee will have more of an advantage of killing ppus
and making shields self cast wont help our ppu problem, just that APUs will then complain because theyre useless without buffs and tanks cant MC5 :p
lowering ppus defenses with buffs might do the trick.. but that means melee will have more of an advantage of killing ppus
and making shields self cast wont help our ppu problem, just that APUs will then complain because theyre useless without buffs and tanks cant MC5 :p
OK! :p
#1: Remove noob buffing.
#2: Balance PPU's perfectly to the harmonious nature to there new settings. (!)
#3: Do a little dance.
Jesterthegreat
30-08-04, 22:23
There have already been alot of Threads and also alot of good Ideas about how to solve the so called "noob buffing" that means prevent the ppu from casting his Holy Shelter by giving him and "normal" Shelter.
Is it fun ?
No it aint!
Give us your opinion if something should be done over it!
To make this all a bit more intresting i got a little Video for you guys ;)
http://foppa.cse.kau.se/mm12/nc/noobbuffs.mpg
please remove any way of killing PPU's. they dont do much damage and arent very important for PvP or OP wars... their defence needs to be improved!
:rolleyes:
KK would have to implement a special attack for other classes to unequip the tank's weapon or the spy's rifle. THEN you can quickly throw a bad weapon at them before they equip their weapon.
Just trying to make your analogy more accurate. :)
Ah yes, Holy Crahn Butterfingers. Your weapon falls back into inventory : D
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