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View Full Version : [brainport] Rares, Player Drop & The Economy



Neo LoneWolf
03-07-04, 22:16
[Badly written, sorry, but I just don't have the time to redraft stuff at the mo]

First things first, what are the problems right now?

1. Serious PvP pretty much demands rare weapon usage. True, you can get by without them, but with just a quick glance at the base damage each rare does compared to the shop-bought weapons of its class, the gap is overbearing (frex, plasma cannons: Unlabeled [4x133]; Standard [4x 180]; Tangent [4x 214]; Cursed Soul [4x324] - numbers may be OOD, sourced from neocron.ems.ru). On top of thatyou have the increased stats you get on rare weapons compared to the stat-cap you have on constructed shop-bought ones.

2. PvP lacks fear and reward. Since the safe slot and belt-drop were implemented, playing Neocron has lost the edge it once had. To a fair degree, you may as well be playing Neofrag - you don't stand to lose much, and you don't stand to gain much. On the flipside, of course, it also means that grief-killing no longer leaves a low-level runner crying over losing that first rare it took so long to complete & so on. A reasonable compromise has yet to be found.

What I propose:

1. Make the safe-slot volatile.

A simple enough idea, really - as the game tracks who did damage to what within a zone, as soon as a player inflicts damage on another runner, they lose their safeslot. This would mean that anyone who suddenly found themselves being attacked by a random griefer could keep their most valuable quick-belt item safe by simply not attacking back (and presumably running like hell). Anyone deciding to fight another player gives up the right to a protected quickbelt slot for the chance to a) kill the other runner and b) take something of theirs.

2. Reduce the hacking requirement for hacking belts to a lower level (somewhere around the 30-50 mark).

This would make it so that although an investment in hacking is required, you don't need to be a hardcore hacker. With the implementation of Hacknet, serious hackers shouldn't be too upset at losing their occasional windfall. Anyone deciding to PvP for gain would have to make an investment in terms of skill points to do so (given the limited amount required, teaming up with someone else just for their hacking ability would be a sub-optimal choice).

3. Create a new degree of weapon with the same reqs as rares, but a lower damage output, standard constructed weapon stats.

Make the uncopyable BPs of the weapons drop unidentified (so needs to be researched) from new cave mobs. Make the weapons un-BPable. Make them require a high number of high-end weaponparts. Call the weapons 'Experimental XXX'.
What effect would this have?
High end (PvP viable) weaponry becomes easier to come by, and hence easier to replace, removing the need for rares in the endgame. Given the lower damage and stats, rare weapons still remain simply better (that, and they have a /swirly/), and without a safeslot for PvPing characters, anyone using a rare will demand respect (and a lot of bullets) for risking losing a hard to come by item.
Rare weapons will become rarer as the need for them in the end game becomes lessened, the hunting of tech parts will be reduced also.

[[Ideally, techparts would seperated out into L, T & E for the loot tables too, so you could get a 70/70 mob dropping L techparts, and only 90/90 plus mobs dropping E parts, but hey - that's another thing.]]

Big clans will be able to farm the caves for large numbers of BPs to make huge numbers of these weapons. However, due to the large number of high-end weaponparts required, the cost of doing so (and the standard chance of slots making 4 & 5 slotters that much rarer) should provide a good money sink.

Clive tombstone
03-07-04, 22:59
Love all of it, Good balance. like it all man.

Crono
03-07-04, 23:08
I would agree with all of that if for the mostpart the game wasent occupied by asshats.

The safeslot on change in how implants drop (making them pop after reclaim as not to go into the belt) made PvP more fun. not everyone likes PvP for the Feer of loosing something or the wanting to gain a trophie from their enemie. I really dont like any game that makes you spend weeks (well, not :makes" but what point is playing a game if your gonna just settle for mediocracy) camping items and then have a good chance loosing it in a death. If this was the old neo where all weapons were just Blueprinted and constructed, then shure, awsome idea, just go have a constructor make a few more till u get a slotted one, or use a slot enhancer. But the introdustion of rares made that old system just a bit too hard to swollow for the avarage runner (not the "attackers" but the ones who just get attacked and shoot back, cause the attackers usually are in a group of 2 or more, its rare people are out there for acuall fair PvP, most are into gangbanging and once the odds even up they usually leave)


Maby make your first idea with the volitle locked slot, but make it that if your attacked first, then you can fight back without loosing it ;P Make it so the antagoniser is the only one who has to pay ;P


Hacking requirements on belts is made so u need a hacker spy to come in and hack the belts for you, not so you just kill and hack the belt with a skill of like 80 when the eprson had good SL :P most people have about 50hack for bots anyways :P


-Crono

Splaticus
03-07-04, 23:15
70/70 mobs drop rares? *kicks self if they do*

Crono
03-07-04, 23:18
Rember way way way back when small reaper spiders, big reaper spiders, hoppers, terrormaulers, and raptors also use to drop them? lol :D

-Crono

MkVenner
03-07-04, 23:19
warbots are 70/70 aint they? or mebbe 80/80...i've never really taken note

Crono
03-07-04, 23:22
I was pretty shure the big mecha spiders also droped them more recently, but their few and far between.

Neo LoneWolf
03-07-04, 23:34
Warbots are 80/80, WBTs 85/85. Perhaps I shouldn't have added that part into the original post.

However, the overall idea is thus:

With rares no longer necessary (only desirable), due to the introduction of a much more accessible equivalent, such a loss isn't as great. Throw in making the safeslot optional (by not actually fighting to keep it) , and you get the ability to win and lose stuff through PvP, without immense loss, and without victimising . . . er, victims.

Crono
03-07-04, 23:37
It will make ganking worse. Like i said its rare people truly come in a group to a place to look for fair fighting, its obvious when things liek that are done its to just kill lone runners, so now people can just attack people and the person has to now nopt even make a stand, but just run away or he also stands a good chance to lose his weapon, awsome.

Sorry man, but i love PvP but im not into the loss and gain ideas some people have. Just PvP for the fun of it, dont go trying to make people suffer or try to gain from it.

-Crono