zerging?

[eric-the-ded]

this is something that's been buggin me since i came back. so i guess this post will be a mini-rant of sorts. also i'm not sure if it's like this on all servers. i pretty much just stick to one server. anyway... i'm slightly oldschool so bear with me on this one.

before i left neocron, if large clan took an OP owned by a smaller clan, the smaller clan would call up their allies and organize a counter attack. this would usually lead to a gloriously fun OP war. very few complaints on either side win or lose. no whining. no finger pointing. in fact it was a somewhat common practice.

now days, by my observations, it seems that a large clan taking the OP of a small clan is just flat out criminal. there even seems to be a new word for it. (probably invented by the same jackass that thought "nib" was cooler than "noob") there was never a word for this stuff back then. what gives? are there no allies anymore? do clans not organize counter attacks?

if an army is invading your turf you form an army of your own and fight back. i've never been in any particularly large clans. i've always been in the smaller clans that form alliances with other smaller clans. i remember sitting in on several inter-clan meetings to form strategies. the meetings themselves were almost as fun as the large battles that followed. now it seems that these alliances are few and far between.

are there any of these oldschool alliances still active? what has become of OP warfare?

[JackScratch]

Not enough runners for allies. Not enough runners for multiple clans. This game belongs to the Power gamer alone. There is no room in it for anyone else. I for one find this very very sad. Course most PK happy 12 year olds would disagree with me.

[BombShell]

this is something that's been buggin me since i came back. so i guess this post will be a mini-rant of sorts. also i'm not sure if it's like this on all servers. i pretty much just stick to one server. anyway... i'm slightly oldschool so bear with me on this one.

before i left neocron, if large clan took an OP owned by a smaller clan, the smaller clan would call up their allies and organize a counter attack. this would usually lead to a gloriously fun OP war. very few complaints on either side win or lose. no whining. no finger pointing. in fact it was a somewhat common practice.

now days, by my observations, it seems that a large clan taking the OP of a small clan is just flat out criminal. there even seems to be a new word for it. (probably invented by the same jackass that thought "nib" was cooler than "noob") there was never a word for this stuff back then. what gives? are there no allies anymore? do clans not organize counter attacks?

if an army is invading your turf you form an army of your own and fight back. i've never been in any particularly large clans. i've always been in the smaller clans that form alliances with other smaller clans. i remember sitting in on several inter-clan meetings to form strategies. the meetings themselves were almost as fun as the large battles that followed. now it seems that these alliances are few and far between.

are there any of these oldschool alliances still active? what has become of OP warfare?

look at these large clans and look whos running them. OMG it is the old school small clans. belive it or not from wut i seen in 1 year theirs a clan that was formed by serval other clans and became freinds and stayed together and formed a bond kinda.

now the small clan is a big clan. and these are the peeps that stride to be better and did. and all the others are the peeps that just dont work for it.

[le noob]

yeah it usto be if it was uplink or whatever and you were a small clan one person even you had half a chance and could go off with turrets and stop the attack half the time but due to wahh wahha turrets

now your screwed unless you skill tons of construction

[Bozz-Von Mel]

Yes, this took place on Uranus today/yesterday. Several FA clans came together to attack TG Ops. These clans were accused of zerging because they brought multiple clans. According to the logic, or lack of logic that I have seen from the griefers, if multiple clans with 15 total people attack = zerg. If 1 clan with 50 total people attack its not a zerg. The loosing clan could not call on allies because, by their playing style, they have alienated themselves from almost everyone on the server. Seems to me they expect the game to be played their way and their way only.

[Magic Sausage]

Lol get this...

My Clan and about 5 other clans online gathered about 15 people total to take ops from probibly the largest clan in the game... We hacked clan X's ops and split them between us...

And what happens... no one shows up... and we ask over OOC why they aren't coming... and they say "You nibs!!! You need 3 factions to take us on..." And so on and so forth... Anyway... We take 6 ops and wait for some sort of resistance to come... nothin... So we call it a night and go to sleep...

Unfortunatley no one is on to defend and all our ops are taken overnight... but still I wish someone would have shown up to participate in the fun...

Edit: Looks like I posted the 15 Man = Zerg thing at the exact time mr man above me did... lol We both posted at the same minute to comment to the multi small clan alliances.

[hegemonic]

are there any of these oldschool alliances still active? what has become of OP warfare?

OP Warfare on the Uranus server is alive and well. FA is well organized and has become a conglomeration of 3 large clans working as a faction.
The OP war started as a launch on Crahn, then became retaliation against a TG clan, which then turned into a massive
non-FA Uranus Runners VS. United FA OP War.
FA had to fight runners of ALL factions to defend the OP. So many people were at the Fortress, my FPS dropped to -10 ;)

[Bozz-Von Mel]

heh, i asked your leader to hire a merc. but no dice :(

[eric-the-ded]

great to see some people still get it.
it's not about the victory. it's the fight that counts. even if you're horribly outnumbered.
if the small clans manage to form an alliance big enough to outnumber the large clan, the large clan can still call for backup and make the fight even bigger. there should be no such word as "zerging". there should be no complaining about being outnumbered or teaming up.

back in the day... the clan i was in teamed up with two others to take on a large clan. at the time they were the largest and most notorious clan on the server. we fought for at least an hour. probably more. it went back and forth with people dying, dropping stuff, not even bothering with pokes and rez. in the end the alliance won. and guess what.. they didn't complain. nobody cried fowl. they laughed. we laughed. we all had a blast.

the next day they returned and kicked our asses without the alliance to back us up.
and that was fun too.

[Bozz-Von Mel]

Thats the way it should be eric. Well put.

[Candaman]

that would work if server numbers were nice and balanced but unfortunately there not and there are not always allies u can call on

[Cyphor]

The other problem I’ve seen atm is with allegations of ninja hacking, yes I’m against purposely taking a clans ops when they have min people on, that just shows your clan is scared of a fight. However with populations as they are atm, what if a op holding clan never has enough on :confused: I've been watching the clan pops on Pluto over the past few days and even at peak times, US and European, some of the clans with the majority of the ops only have one or two runners on... Imo when it gets to this stage a clan who is more active, whether ally or enemy has a duty to take the ops to try and breathe some life back into the op system, eg there is also a clan on Pluto which most of the time im on has 10+ people on yet hold no ops, if an active clan like that hold ops then people will want to go to an op war as they know they'll get a fight. Although im just speculating, is there even any large op wars on Pluto anymore? In my experience you need a strong enemy to draw the clans together/get more people active as people will want to log on if they know they can get a fight.

As for zerging I never understood it either, yes its wrong if one clan of 8 attacks an op and you go call allies and bring 30, but if you attack a op with 20 and they bring 20 runners from 3 factions what’s wrong with that? The numbers are equal and they obviously didn’t have the numbers to fight alone...some people just like the easy win? The number of factions/clans at a fight shouldn't matter, just the number of runners and sadly in some cases number of ppu's. :(

Lastly when it comes to large clans imo people need to get a spy to go out to the op before they presume numbers, many just read off a city comm how many are online without realising many will be tradeskillers or noobs, based on assumptions they bring too many allies and again the "zerg" argument comes into play, what I don’t understand though is that if people play this game for fun and fun fights, when they get zerged by multiple clans why moan? Why not just get some allies together themselves?

[LiL T]

JackScratch said it all in a nutshell really theres not as many people at the min everybody knows everybody just about and people are just fighting everyone cos of the lack of big opwars. I think that if the player base got together and decided to have all pro city in CA and all anti city in BD or something similar then we might have huge op wars. We gonna have to choice what side we are on soon anyway cos in DOY thats pretty much what its going to be like I can't wait for mass raids on both citys ;)

[Biznatchy]

Ok the term Zerging is really used for times when they attack your OP you show up with 5 or so and defend it, and win. They know you only have 5 people on, the numbers were pretty even. They Call allies and come at you with 10. You win again due to the advantage of defending position. They call in more allies and come at you with 15-20.

Now that is zerging.

Due to faction politics some clans on saturn try to divide factions by making alliances with parts of a faction and then attacking the other clans in the faction. This prevents the calling in of faction allies.


The idea of just calling in more people from different groups doesnt work. The groups all from different clans factions cant be organized well enough to be a effictive combat unit and it winds up a garbled messy halfass attack.

[Clownst0pper]

Nothing wrong with a good zerg, everyone does it, and you can hardly say "no you cant come to this OP war, as we will have 2 many fighters"

[Sigma]

Nothing wrong with a good zerg, everyone does it, and you can hardly say "no you cant come to this OP war, as we will have 2 many fighters"
No, not everybody does it.

and i prefer Clan vs. Clan fights, IF they r possible.

[Birkoff]

one clan attacks a certain TG clan and kicks there ass they mona winge on tarde what ever then come back with the other 2 TG clans and about 25 ppl win and think there skillful... pluto n e way :)



NATO was hellova fun t o fight.... TG go back to living in your dark little corner and bring NATO back :)

[[F6]Knight]

try FA on uranus, there are about 3 bigger FA clans and the all stand united and work very nicely together concerning OP wars
other than that either one of them is nice to go hunting with if you should wanan join em.
look hard enough and u ll probably find something simular on the server you r on. altough you might wanna change faction if you really cant find something mentioned above in your current faction.

[Bozz-Von Mel]

It just seems if everyone sticks to the mentality of only fighting if the fight is "even", you will have about 0-1 OP fights per day. I have been trying to make this argument for nearly 2 years now. In this game and in RL an attacker either has to outnumber or outgun its enemy. Esp when the defender has a tactical advantage. This is a pure fact of life. I will never buy the "skill" argument cause there are too many factors out of our control. (ex. FPS) Use of turrets and the underground are a force multiplier for the defender. Therefore, even the average skilled clan needs to come with at the minimum a 2 to 1 advantage. I am sure plenty of you can point out rare cases when 2 or 3 people beat 10 defenders but this is an exception. OP defenders should quit crying when they show up to an OP outnumbered even when the attacker is brininging multiple clans. The attacker is simply being smart. If your gonna go to war, there is no point in going half cocked cause you have no idea what is gonna come out of that UG. I have seen plenty of clans go from 3 online to 10 or more online in a matter of minutes. With the exception of the very large clans, the days of 1 clan vs 1 clan at an OP fight are over. It leaves too many people out of the game

I also love the idea of use of vehicles at OPs. Sure there are some OPs they cant get into, but their are plenty that they can. If you lack PPU support or firepower the vehicles can give you the extra protection and firepower you need. Those that cry about their enemies bringing vehicles can either: 1. Show they have more than "keyboard" skill and use their OMG Brain. 2. Be hard headed, never adjust and continue to get killed while also griefing heavily on trade/ooc for no good reason.

[greendonkeyuk]

clan vs clan is sportmanship von, it makes the fight FUN, it doesnt matter whether you win or lose. Its the taking part that counts. Thats what the thread starter (i think) is trying to say. The problem is too many people will "zerg" at a moments notice and so making opfights last about 25 seconds and be no fun for either side. Ive just posted this in the top heavy uranus thread so at risk of repeating myself i will now shut up.

[Clownst0pper]

No, not everybody does it.

and i prefer Clan vs. Clan fights, IF they r possible.

Yup me 2, always a pleasure fighting FU (protectors) they know the rules of none zerg

[Bozz-Von Mel]

I have no problem with the sportsmanship at all. The reason I made the post is because of all the senseless crying that goes on after OP fights. If it is not one excuse its another and people seem angry that an enemy dare attack their OP at all. I prefer clan vs clan, but I am also a realist. The player base is just not there, you have to go grab what you can get to even get a fight going.

The "taking part" is all good, and I cant knock ya for it. My views are a little different. I like to win and I like to think of different ways to win. There is more to the game than how fast your fingers can peck keys on the keyboard (I think this is what people call "skill")or your FPS. Thats why I ride around in vehicles now, I don't have to have a PPU up my ass to take multiple people on and FPS and "finger speed" or "skill" are less of a factor.

[steweygrrr]

I have no problem with the sportsmanship at all. The reason I made the post is because of all the senseless crying that goes on after OP fights. If it is not one excuse its another and people seem angry that an enemy dare attack their OP at all. I prefer clan vs clan, but I am also a realist. The player base is just not there, you have to go grab what you can get to even get a fight going.

The "taking part" is all good, and I cant knock ya for it. My views are a little different. I like to win and I like to think of different ways to win. There is more to the game than how fast your fingers can peck keys on the keyboard (I think this is what people call "skill")or your FPS. Thats why I ride around in vehicles now, I don't have to have a PPU up my ass to take multiple people on and FPS and "finger speed" or "skill" are less of a factor.

You're welcome any time, I personally wouldn't mind patching relations with the Mercs atm, you all seem like a nice bunch of RP friendly people like us. What got me last night on OOC was the total hypocrisy of the clan you mentioned. They recently spoke out against a certain BD clan for being turret whores. When we took Jeri from them, what did they do? Spam turrets. They complained about fair fights.....they are the LAST people who have ANY right to moan and whinge about 'fair fights'. The second they do, is the second we give them a reprieve.

They complained that we fight as a faction and we always bring 12 to 15 to our op wars (we also learned that some people are INCREDIBLY delusional and need to learn how to count, if they have got that far in kindergarten/nursery/whatever.....to the APU who said you had one turret.....maybe in the hackroom, or where you not counting the other 12 littered around the op?). Lo and behold they finally get it and form an alliance of their own.

I personally find these large scale battles more interesting. Theres more to fight for, you fear for your virtual life a hundred fold more because it turns into one huge furball. People running in and out everywhere, hitting anything and everything they can. It's great fun, and also its in those situations that the truly skilled players/clans/factions shine through because even if they are outnumbered you can easily turn the fight around if you are fighting a numerically superior but poorly trained force.

[extract]

that FA alliance you speak of yesterday on uranus.....was compiled of some of the 3 biggest clans on that server.....against a whopping 3 TG people

it was 3 vs 20 granted it was 3 of TGs finest fighters its still sad to see some people need that many people to take an op from an inactive at that time clan....

excuses were made, such as "you guys should expect some form of payback of pking and shit"

but like someone said yesterday, noone deserves that kind of shit....its pointless to fight when its 3 vs 20

of course Im not really complaining.....they wanted an alliance to take us on.....we got RAF and illuminati

some FA yesterday said "dont be mad were the most organized faction on the server"

Im gonna say "dont be mad were the most powerful faction on the server and ended up victorious in the end"

hahaha

zerg and you shall be zerged

[Bozz-Von Mel]

According to the city com, those are the biggest clans, but you fail to take into consideration those clans are ancient and have an immense number of inactives. Fair play on TG going to get allies and coming back, that is what you are supposed to do. To avoid the zerg you speak of, try attacking on multiple OPs. It keeps the FPS up and make fights last longer.

[solling]

one clan attacks a certain crahn clan and kicks there ass they mona winge on tarde what ever then come back with the other a ca clan a TT clan and about 25 ppl win and think there skillful... pluto n e way

[steweygrrr]

that FA alliance you speak of yesterday on uranus.....was compiled of some of the 3 biggest clans on that server.....against a whopping 3 TG people

it was 3 vs 20 granted it was 3 of TGs finest fighters its still sad to see some people need that many people to take an op from an inactive at that time clan....

excuses were made, such as "you guys should expect some form of payback of pking and shit"

but like someone said yesterday, noone deserves that kind of shit....its pointless to fight when its 3 vs 20

of course Im not really complaining.....they wanted an alliance to take us on.....we got RAF and illuminati

some FA yesterday said "dont be mad were the most organized faction on the server"

Im gonna say "dont be mad were the most powerful faction on the server and ended up victorious in the end"

hahaha

zerg and you shall be zerged

I said it last night and I'll say it again.... LEARN TO COUNT! And that was me that said toe organised faction thing last night, along with the rest of FA who were on OOC. Please tell me why you are the most powerful faction on the server? Power requires some degree of organisation, something you are sadly lacking. I found last nights fight fun when you brought a larger force with you. But as I said before, congrats for actually having the balls to turn up the first time, I think you are the only clan who turn up no matter what.

[QuantumDelta]

Bozz makes sense o.O

Much sense.

--

Considering the dodgeyness surrounding that unnamed TG clan I don't need to say a lot to be honest, what's more is, in the end the fight ended up more or less the ENTIRE server vs FA alone.


---

Mercs/FA ---

I have felt SSC (for a long time SSC _WERE_ FA) always had a great relation to the mercs, DJs clan seems to not trust us too well, but generally speaking apart from the =WC= clan SSC have never had a problem with Mercs, and have always got on well with the mainstay of that group.
eg;
The clan that had a couple of Next United members in amongst it (don't remember it's name...)
The RN peeps were and always will have decent relations with us, Mr. Black is someone I do respect quite a bit even if he explodes on occasion :p
DJ I've always had a good relationship with, even if maybe the rest of his clan isn't that well off with us I hold nothing against anyone there.

I've never seen a problem between another FA clan and MB?
Though I maybe missing something.

The only problem with Mercs / FA is that blodge that was =WC= --- which doesn't mean anything anymore, so surely it could be patched up again?
FA could easily be a very close faction to the mercs, in terms of RP.

[Bozz-Von Mel]

Its too bad that most of CM is dead atm. DJ has a few people but not enough to get in the OP game atm. I came over to CM because it fits my mentality and allows me to play the way I feel. I have just a few members and all we do atm is role play a MB security force. My goal is to deploy vehicles en mass so that we are not so dependent on the dreaded APU/PPU combos. I am very much interested in supporting FA as they seem to be like minded. However, there are times I think I should sit on the sideline when FA fights a CM ally. Otherwise I am all about attacking any CM enemy or neutral.

[QuantumDelta]

The only people CM would not want to back vs FA would be TT.

But even then I expect FA could bribe'em into it :p

[Bozz-Von Mel]

It seems every time CM helps someone. The opposition likes to punish CM, by raiding MB. Which is fine, I find snipers die pretty easy to Rhino cannon. It just sucks when they are allies and we loose SL. That would be the only situation I would like to avoid.

[Mr_Snow]

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[Bozz-Von Mel]

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[Mr_Snow]

[ edited ]

[Nidhogg]

Keep the flames out of this thread or it will be closed.

N

[eric-the-ded]

last night i brought up the subject on trade channel. in return i was called a pussy that can't fight his own battles. yes i was a little insulted, but i was more disturbed that most people on the channel agreed with the person who said it. i dunno.. maybe i'm taking this too seriously, but it makes me sad to see how much things have changed in my absence.

it's bad enough that all the people i used to hang out with are now gone from the game, but there's not even any like-minded people for me to hang with anymore. it's like factions don't exist anymore. it's all about singular clans now. there's no good vs evil. it's just l33t vs l33t. i don't have anything against simple clan vs clan battles, but i can't grasp the concept of shunning clans that have allies entirely.

i'm going clanless till i can be converted to the new ways of fighting battles or i find a clan of like-minded people. whichever happens first.