View Full Version : Reakktor and the waste of time?
Maloch Octavia
29-06-04, 22:42
So I've dropped my SL by hosting the Hallway Challenge in my apartment, kudos to everyone that turned up and made it a great Event by the way. What a carnage!
I'm dithering about what to do, and I decide to do my one monthly visit to the Jailhouse to hack belts. I get there only to discover someone has obviously had the same idea, and cleared them out.
Then another idea struck me...
That people never really came to the Jailhouse anyway.
I remember talking to Snowcrash and Iorghe when it was being designed, they were so excited and happy, and chuffed with the work, and what it could signify, and what's happened....
It's been ignored.
Whos fault is this?
On one hand, we have Reakktor outlawing Drugs from Neocron, yet placing a Drug Dealer in Plaza Three..... Where is the Criminal element? We have people in Plaza shouting out that these Drugs are for sale on the cheap.. Where's the deception and caution? IF you're selling illegal drugs, make an effort, go stand in Pepper Park and shout it, or keep a nib Red SL handy to live in the Jail and sell them from there... Add a bit of RP aspect to it, it benefits everyone.
On the other hand, we have these 'l33t' Pk'ers that run around and kill people, only until a certain stage, before stopping, doing Missions, or going AFK and letting their SL climb. I've only seen a handful of people live as Criminals, and those were the people that started Nib characters and lived in the Wastelands.. What happened then? They got used as SL donkeys by aforementioned l33t pk'ers.
What we have is Reakktor creating a place to work with a change they make, making the change, then shooting themselves in the foot by making it possible to 'walkaround' the new fix.
I get sad when I walk through Neocron.
I get sad when I see all the amazing, beautiful zones, that are never used, totally neglected. That have only a handful of people pass through them in a month.
I get sad when I see that Reakktor have introduced the DoY Tunnels, yet placed some of these Tunnels in the most used Zones in the game, when there are pointless, empty Zones sitting there with nothing to do..
I get sad, really sad, when I know some poor soul has poured his life and soul into making a beautiful map, only for no-one to ever live it, or take advantage of it.
This game isn't all about killing, it's about creating your own entertainment, and we have a lot of sometimes imperfect means by which to do so.
If Reakktor would offer interesting apartments in the Jailhouse to buy, think of a large Jail Cell effect, give it an interesting design, design four levels, assign lots of Jail Cells to them, put two cabinets in each, and have the Player buy a Cell, which only they can open the door to, but the cabinets are theres to store as a normal Apartment. Think of a Lift Interfact, you type in Floor One, Two, etcetc, and it takes you to a new zone with a dozen cells... Brilliant eh?
Fix the Gamblers, add a GR for crying out loud, you get shot if you have 0+ SL anyway, and I will live there, I will act out the life of a Criminal, I will keep my SL constantly in the Red, and I will enjoy a new aspect of the game.
I wish other people would try and think outside of the circle, and stop living the life of a mass murdering criminal, whilst still doing their daily shopping in the main street.
Yes, some mass murderers do this too, but come on, make your game different, or if you don't, you can't complain there isn't anything to do.
I look forward to the day I'm a true criminal.
I look forward to the day that the map designers can sit back and finally feel the love their designs get.
Amen dude, Amen.
I was one of the nibs living in the wastelands as a criminal, sad what happened, but a little expected.
I agree with your words :(
Won't the jailhouse be used more in DoY with the removal of safe zones (safe hqs and clubs)? When you have low SL, you won't be able to go near copbots or anything, but you'll be able to safely hang out in the jail.. right?
Maloch Octavia
29-06-04, 22:51
When you have low SL, you won't be able to go near copbots or anything, but you'll be able to safely hang out in the jail.. right?
You need to have negative Soullight to hole up in the Jailhouse, and with nowhere to keep your kit, and no access to a Genrep, who's going to?
If they don't fully close down Neocron to anti-City come B:DoY, people will still GR straight to their apartments and let the SL climb back to normal.
You've given it a focus, and a setting, now give it purpose, and we will use it.
Silenteye, are you guys still doing that? I'm interested in joining.
I would like to make a dedicated evil little red char but don't want to deal with the catastropic item drop
I may just have to do it anyway to keep the game fresh
figure I'll have to give him a storage cell as that might be the only apartment he can take
my other chars will end up supporting him I think
should I go pistol PE or rifle spy -- or pistol spy ?
I should think stealthing will be key
oops - forgot my point ----> catastropic item drop
red just isn't that manageable
Lets take a look at wasted zones.
MB 2 and 3, Job Center, NCPD - when it was open it served no purpose at all except for leveling through exploits, all sectors of the main sewers, OZ-jail, most of the outzone since most people prefer aggy pits and the MB bunker, TG Canyon - because most people don't use it except to get inq4 and fusion stuff.
Hmmm... Where else. =/
Most Faction HQ's are wasted, but we know faction HQ's are getting revamped.
/edit - Pepper Park is wasted since everyone likes to fight on the border of PP1 and P3 - I say we should eliminate PP 2 and PP 3 and stick all the HQ's, clubs, and the like in PP 1. /sarcasm
Clubs are wasted - that will hopefully change.
BD shooting range - biggest waste in the world, at least you can buy stuff and enjoy the surroundings in OZ-jail.
The PP maze, lovely idea! However it needs more love.
Alot of wasteland zones are worthless too - nothing of interest, no spawns worth killing in alot of them, even to new players or midlevel players. Hell, below Tech Haven, most of those zones are barren. Stick in warbots or something to the far east or west.
Maloch Octavia
29-06-04, 23:55
I remember, when I first started, and I was hearing those announcements about NCPD having Weekly classes on being an upstanding citizen. I used to go to NCPD all the time to try and attend one.
Then someone told me they never actually happened.
I haven't been back since except for a few massive meetings.
Waste of space eh?
What they need is more content for these places.
Bounty Boards should only be accessible in NCPD, put in a few holding cells, have the Inmate NPC's give you different Missions for going to the Jail on Runner missions or something, anything, just give it purpose and point.
*Sighs*
Why is there such waste? It worries me, because even if the Player count suddenly jumped to 1,000, all you'd have is 1,000 people in Plaza Two.
So how can the interaction be increased? Unique missions, not Citycom Missions, which are a case of hitting 'Next' until you get your Aggressor or Launcher Missions, but interesting, unique Missions, which are only available at certain times, or appear at random. Like a list of one hundred different missions, with only five available per day, and they randomly rotate.
The NCPD could be worth a hell of a lot if it was given the right improvements. Why not have the ability to increase your SL by going to NCPD and paying a hefty fine, or doing NCPD Missions, like Community Service?
As for the Military Bunker, why not take the lowest locked off door, and add a new zone behind it. The military base is contained yes? So it's safe to say, the Mercs would have access, secure access, to an ASG.
Why not make an underground parking lot? A new style of ASG, whereby it looks just like a carpark, with the spaces marked out. The Spawn terminals on the wall, you select your vehicle, it spawns into the nearest empty parking slot. This means you also don't have to run around looking for it, adds a new zone, which can be set as an Anarchy zone, with a long tunnel leading from it, out into the zone where the old ASG used to be.
Don't put Guards in it, anyone can use it, by either accessing from the Base, or from the outside tunnel. That would be amazing, and relatively simple to design too, for the layout that is.
As for the other Military Base sections, either improve them for levelling in, adding new mobs along the way, or else split the shops and Runner housing between the two levels, don't have it all in one. Why not have the GR on the second level, somewhere near the back, with more shops and housing?
TechHaven is HUGE and confusingly empty. Why so much space and so little content? Why not simplify the layout, until the numbers improve? Why not put in an underground ASG there too? Although I'm actually quite happy with the TH layout, as it is well spaced, well designed, asides from the confusion (Signposts please!), it's just always empty. Maybe more focussed benefits for Traders, as that is what the Faction actually is, eh?
PepperPark.. Well, why not? Why not just take all the Pepperpark zones and transform them into two massive zones? Would City Admin really let so many unlawful zones exist? Not likely. So two is probably more plausible. I mean make them big though, massive, with plenty of indirect and sneaky routes from one end to the other.
*Sighs*
So many possibilities.. At the end of the day though, would we use them even with these changes?
Yes, get rid of the stupid item drop on low SL (but keep no safeslot), raise the tech drop, then make there be OTHER ways to lose SL than just killing allied factions:
- Holding Illegal drugs (accepting them in trade, or picking them up -1 per drug)
- Dealing Illegal drugs (giving them over trade or making them -2 per drug)
- Being an anticity faction (start off at -10)
- Make some weapons Illegal (building or accepting Illegal weapons -2 per weapon)
- Make the level 5 drugs unrecyclable
Those are just over the top of my head, I'm sure that you can think up some more. That would make an interesting game. Criminals gain the use of Illegal drugs often and certain weapons, but lose their safeslot. Respectable citizens gain the increased tech drop, but lose the ability to reguarly use illegal weapons or drugs.
So I've dropped my SL by hosting the Hallway Challenge in my apartment, kudos to everyone that turned up and made it a great Event by the way. What a carnage!
I'm dithering about what to do, and I decide to do my one monthly visit to the Jailhouse to hack belts. I get there only to discover someone has obviously had the same idea, and cleared them out.
Then another idea struck me...
That people never really came to the Jailhouse anyway.
I remember talking to Snowcrash and Iorghe when it was being designed, they were so excited and happy, and chuffed with the work, and what it could signify, and what's happened....
It's been ignored.
Whos fault is this?
Well for one u can go to jailhouse with little -sl enough not to drop a belt.
and camp for a red SL guy. so its not vary safe for them either way.
the elemnt was nice but nonone can enjoy it because u hav to hav -sl.
and to get -sl u hav to kill allies. nonone is whinning that theirs no spot for -sl peeps. everyone is whining that allies are pking allies and u cant defend ur self ith out losing something. then theirs accidental -sl such as yo's and such.
nonone wants -sl and to give a spot for -sl peeps that are able to be killed thats bad. maybe if thay make it into a safezone and u cant be killed their than yah. jailhouse would be used more. -sl would love a safespot to camp till their -sl goes.
peeps with -sl dont keep on pking thay camp till it has passed because of the lost. u can lose over 100 million nc worth of items if ur not careful.
and i repeat nonone wants -sl or someone that has somthing to lose.
-sl the penatie from -sl shouldnt happen at all. if u want to make jailhouse more productive. and i keep saying pvp should hav a reward. from the guys bank. as a faction reward. and if u kill a allie u lose money.
i said this money times and its a really good idea i belive that can probly solve many problems. when a pvp is out of cash wut is their for him to do but go and search for more. taking him to the wastelands and if hes a heavy pker he should be in ncpd and tracked downa nd kill for those bountys. and -sl should give triple the reward in cash. so if am rank /60 reg is 6000 nc and if am -sl its 18000 nc for the reward. and its from that players bank account so its no new cash forming. basically like mugging for cash.
Yes, get rid of the stupid item drop on low SL (but keep no safeslot), raise the tech drop, then make there be OTHER ways to lose SL than just killing allied factions:
- Holding Illegal drugs (accepting them in trade, or picking them up -1 per drug)
- Dealing Illegal drugs (giving them over trade or making them -2 per drug)
- Being an anticity faction (start off at -10)
- Make some weapons Illegal (building or accepting Illegal weapons -2 per weapon)
- Make the level 5 drugs unrecyclable
Those are just over the top of my head, I'm sure that you can think up some more. That would make an interesting game. Criminals gain the use of Illegal drugs often and certain weapons, but lose their safeslot. Respectable citizens gain the increased tech drop, but lose the ability to reguarly use illegal weapons or drugs.
Good Ideas
There are some great ideas here, and the game would be so much better than it would be now if KK just stopped, looked at the community and ideas that came out from it.
Sigh KK, do something, hire more people, i dunno how just fucking do something :|
There are some great ideas here, and the game would be so much better than it would be now if KK just stopped, looked at the community and ideas that came out from it.
Sigh KK, do something, hire more people, i dunno how just fucking do something :|
Well u hav to remember how stubburn thay are.
No matter how many times we might whine thay will see how the game will be run.
even is it doesnt make since and even during testing it was bad.
and we just whine somemore then its fixed. then thay think we forgot abotu it and its bak to the way it was.
dont say anything that well hav to spend mroe money. thay hav no money dont u get it
para was perfect one time then thay boost it agin and mroe complaints.
then we hav melee freezers we didnt ask for para boost on freezers we asked for melee to be boosted.
we might need to be more accurate to wut we want.
Maloch Octavia
30-06-04, 01:08
- Being an anticity faction (start off at -10)
Being Anti-City doesn't make you a bad person. Soullight is your character, not your political stance.
I like the Drugs idea, but make it that it only happens in Safezones, so you can Trade in PepperPark.
Being Anti-City doesn't make you a bad person. Soullight is your character, not your political stance.
I like the Drugs idea, but make it that it only happens in Safezones, so you can Trade in PepperPark.
actually it fits the story line. and their shouldnt be any safes zones. only safe zones their should be is Hq's and Appy's
and being neutral u shouldnt lose any sl it will make the mercs more to wut thay are
You've been playing how long and are only now realizing that Neocron is full of half-implemented ideas?
They'll all be fixed in BDOY. Promise!
You've been playing how long and are only now realizing that Neocron is full of half-implemented ideas?
They'll all be fixed in BDOY. Promise!
are u sure about that :)
so wut are u saying is BDoY is one giant HotFix.
Hmmm cant wait for more bugs :)
trigger hurt
30-06-04, 01:40
So I've dropped my SL by hosting the Hallway Challenge in my apartment, kudos to everyone that turned up and made it a great Event by the way. What a carnage!
I'm dithering about what to do, and I decide to do my one monthly visit to the Jailhouse to hack belts. I get there only to discover someone has obviously had the same idea, and cleared them out.
Then another idea struck me...
That people never really came to the Jailhouse anyway.
I remember talking to Snowcrash and Iorghe when it was being designed, they were so excited and happy, and chuffed with the work, and what it could signify, and what's happened....
It's been ignored.
Whos fault is this?
On one hand, we have Reakktor outlawing Drugs from Neocron, yet placing a Drug Dealer in Plaza Three..... Where is the Criminal element? We have people in Plaza shouting out that these Drugs are for sale on the cheap.. Where's the deception and caution? IF you're selling illegal drugs, make an effort, go stand in Pepper Park and shout it, or keep a nib Red SL handy to live in the Jail and sell them from there... Add a bit of RP aspect to it, it benefits everyone.
On the other hand, we have these 'l33t' Pk'ers that run around and kill people, only until a certain stage, before stopping, doing Missions, or going AFK and letting their SL climb. I've only seen a handful of people live as Criminals, and those were the people that started Nib characters and lived in the Wastelands.. What happened then? They got used as SL donkeys by aforementioned l33t pk'ers.
What we have is Reakktor creating a place to work with a change they make, making the change, then shooting themselves in the foot by making it possible to 'walkaround' the new fix.
I get sad when I walk through Neocron.
I get sad when I see all the amazing, beautiful zones, that are never used, totally neglected. That have only a handful of people pass through them in a month.
I get sad when I see that Reakktor have introduced the DoY Tunnels, yet placed some of these Tunnels in the most used Zones in the game, when there are pointless, empty Zones sitting there with nothing to do..
I get sad, really sad, when I know some poor soul has poured his life and soul into making a beautiful map, only for no-one to ever live it, or take advantage of it.
This game isn't all about killing, it's about creating your own entertainment, and we have a lot of sometimes imperfect means by which to do so.
If Reakktor would offer interesting apartments in the Jailhouse to buy, think of a large Jail Cell effect, give it an interesting design, design four levels, assign lots of Jail Cells to them, put two cabinets in each, and have the Player buy a Cell, which only they can open the door to, but the cabinets are theres to store as a normal Apartment. Think of a Lift Interfact, you type in Floor One, Two, etcetc, and it takes you to a new zone with a dozen cells... Brilliant eh?
Fix the Gamblers, add a GR for crying out loud, you get shot if you have 0+ SL anyway, and I will live there, I will act out the life of a Criminal, I will keep my SL constantly in the Red, and I will enjoy a new aspect of the game.
I wish other people would try and think outside of the circle, and stop living the life of a mass murdering criminal, whilst still doing their daily shopping in the main street.
Yes, some mass murderers do this too, but come on, make your game different, or if you don't, you can't complain there isn't anything to do.
I look forward to the day I'm a true criminal.
I look forward to the day that the map designers can sit back and finally feel the love their designs get.
The problem with 'living in the red' is that it's not viable. The game mechanics were installed to halt some of the senseless killing that was taking place in early retail. It worked for a while, but now you can do your 'mass murdering' and then run some missions.
KK really need to ask themselves a question about this...why is it that a person with -15 SL will only drop one thing and still have his safe slot...while the person with -17 will lost his safeslot and drop more stuff? There's no "rp" reason for it...it's to keep people from going over that limit and staying there.
Leave drops as they are now where anything in your inventory can drop, remove the quick belt, remove the safe slot and re-instate the one random item drop on death. You will see more people willing to "live in the red". Why would anyone want to go red and stay that way when they know they will be hunted by everyone and their mother and if they die, they are going to drop everything important to them.
The problem with 'living in the red' is that it's not viable. The game mechanics were installed to halt some of the senseless killing that was taking place in early retail. It worked for a while, but now you can do your 'mass murdering' and then run some missions.
KK really need to ask themselves a question about this...why is it that a person with -15 SL will only drop one thing and still have his safe slot...while the person with -17 will lost his safeslot and drop more stuff? There's no "rp" reason for it...it's to keep people from going over that limit and staying there.
Leave drops as they are now where anything in your inventory can drop, remove the quick belt, remove the safe slot and re-instate the one random item drop on death. You will see more people willing to "live in the red". Why would anyone want to go red and stay that way when they know they will be hunted by everyone and their mother and if they die, they are going to drop everything important to them.
am kinda withu their trigger do to the fact that weapons got their boost now.
even thou its no CS TPC hurts :)
this is the balance we need. we shouldnt relay on rares rares should just give u the edge.
I completely agree with you, but sometimes is not only KK, but also the community that does not seem to decide what they want.
Logically we could attribute the small ammount of places used to the low population of the game; however KK could have spiced these places instead leaving it up to our will. Then we have Twilight Guardian canyons, an area especially created with all the resources that players need, unused because the so-called rebels can roam around Neocron city at their pleasure. Part of Tech Haven being deserted is side effect of this, if Fallen Angels' main ally and customer of city goods can go by itself to the City, they don't have the need to stay at their base or go to the canyon.
Same can be said about illegal drugs, an awesome piece of content that adds deepness into the game, creates a dark atmosphere of illicit activities being done in the unused red light district controlled by Black Dragon, could add potential new player roles, like smugglers, drug dealers, drug factories, or expontaneus events like copbot raids into known drug-dealer player appartaments, firing upon runners that carry high ammount of drugs inside the inner city, etc... yet they are sold in PLAZA-3, and with 25 recycle anyone can make many more drugs than they need for self-subsistence.
Or leaving the OutZone empty, because they have placed aggy pits in the Central Business District of the City. Unfinished places like the main sewers, with nothing down there; or Peeper Park clubs with no utility at all besides maybe events, but tbh even a room full of trashcans could hold the uber-last trashcan standing event... People need REAL incentives to use places like pubs or faction HQs, RP is not enought; and if there are places that require less neurons to be used, or less stamina, players will use them (Aggy cellars vs OZ).
Not all is KKs problem however, as I have said the community sometimes does not have a clear thoguth of what they want, often whine about this to be changed today, and complain tomorrow because its obvious consequency.
Then players complain because their HQs are raided, KK adds overpowered 120/120 guards, and then complain because people raid their leveling spots or newb places like sewers. If a faction becomes very weak and it is easy raided, for all means limit the population of the most powerful factions, and add incentives to join the weakest ones. Be dinamic, farsighted, prudent in your actions, don't apply the sledgehammer to everything that the community asks.
Other thing, we have now the next generation of pk'ers. People complain that player killers never go to the status of criminal (aka red SL) thus avoiding the game default punishment and all its features, because they work around it with missions, standing in their apartment or using a red SL mule. But what can have caused this... the same people that asked for making criminals an unworthy status; belts that needed to be hacked, horrible losses in -SL dead and safeslots.
It is totally counter productive. Attempting to remove player killers from the game, is removing the viable rules that guide their behaviours to a situation accepted for all players. You cannot remove evil because you cannot remove humans, so your only hope is limiting them to an state were they are not only tolerated, but also have some use for the community. I mean, if there are bad guys, there have to be good guys, and there has to be a line separating both lifes so they don't collide with each other, like it's happening now.
So we have an excellent feature like it's the NCPD most wanted list, a dinamic bounty hunter role given by the game itself, that lacks of any sense and use, because people in an excess of worry about THEIR posssesions and THEIR gameplay, are hurting themselves and the whole community.
This thread brings a discussion (amongst other subjects) in what I have been participating since more than a year ago, but the minor problem here is KK... we, the community, have to learn to give before receiving, because that is human too.
They should just remove the safezones now then you might see neocron as it was meant to be
Agreed, it's both people's fault...
KK gave us the makings of an excellent framework... we have to use it!
You're dissapointed no one actually does the "NCPD informs: your rights and responsibilities as a Neocron citizen..." Then get permission and do them... get a player with a name like "Sargent McNeal" in CA PA and stand outside the NCPD in VR and talk about what it means to be a good citizen... maybe host an event to go along with it, like a bunch of ordinary citizens (read lowbies) get so worked into a patriotic furor that they decide to enlist in the NC army, which is of course, your CA clan name...
you can add RP and interaction to the game yourself, you just have to approach it right...
Agreed, it's both people's fault...
KK gave us the makings of an excellent framework... we have to use it!
You're dissapointed no one actually does the "NCPD informs: your rights and responsibilities as a Neocron citizen..." Then get permission and do them... get a player with a name like "Sargent McNeal" in CA PA and stand outside the NCPD in VR and talk about what it means to be a good citizen... maybe host an event to go along with it, like a bunch of ordinary citizens (read lowbies) get so worked into a patriotic furor that they decide to enlist in the NC army, which is of course, your CA clan name...
you can add RP and interaction to the game yourself, you just have to approach it right...
ill make a event the event starts now.
kill as much rats as u can the first person to kill the most rats keeps wut the rat drops.
I fully support spreading out resources more, it's ridiculous how much you can get in a single plaza zone. Nearly everything you need in the game is available there. .. But there is a problem, and this is why I was angry when they temporarily blocked Yakarmas for a neocronicle. Faction benefits, locations, resource availability are so stupidly lopsided that you can't do a half assed job in balancing. Some factions/areas have penalties, but no benefits really. Like Crahn, they have probably the crappiest apartments of any faction. They also live in Outzone, in the middle of mob spawns. What's the reward? What balances how awful living as a Crahn is? There's nothing, the only reason people play Crahn is either because they like the faction/rp or they like the faction allies/hostiles. That's just one example, there are tons of other imbalances between the factions. Another would be FA, who get special treatment with super guards protecting their entire home. Not just the faction hq, they have guards everywhere in TH. Why are FA's protected when other's have to fend for themselves? In regards to the Yakarmas closing, I was angry because suddenly Monks everywhere were punished regardless of faction. As a Tsunami Monk I have no love for Crahn, but because of Yak being closed, I had to kill a random npc and then go visit enemy territory (jailhouse/BD) to buy boosters.
When it comes down to it, I live in Plaza 3 for these reasons:
1) I desire more then just pvp from the game, I like to chat with other players and do some tradeskillin. I have tried doing this in pepper park and it simply does not work. I have to maintain my own buffs and the buffs of my friends nonstop. This is difficult enough at an op fight waiting for the enemy, it's ridiculous to expect of me 24/7. Especialy while chatting or tradeskilling. If I let my team's buffs go then my enemies will run through us like butter. You see my enemies need only buff once and run into the zone to attack us, wereas I need to constantly keep my buffs up incase they show up. When they move safezones to HQ/Clubs I will move with it, I'll relocate to Veronique. Now though my location is faction exclusive, there will be less people just randomly going by. Less interatction between players and we become more isolated. Chances are much higher I'll simply log off and play something else. It has nothing to do with population counts, I had the most fun as a tradeskiller back when Pluto had a pop of over 500. I could spend almost the entire day in Plaza 1 providing my services and chatting with people.
2) Plaza and Viarossa are the only zones in the game with Apartments that have 10 cabs. The closest is Pepper Park with an 8 cab Apartment. The DRE Epic doesn't count as it's a special prize apartment. As a collector, I need the largest apartments with most cab access.
3) Crytons, Biochem, HEWS, A&W, GR/GOGO are all in Plaza 3. Next door in Plaza 2 is a Yo's and also next door in Plaza 1 is a Yakarmas. In short, everything I need.
carinth why are u mad???
am just getting that u like the area u are hanging around.
KK gave us the makings of an excellent framework... we have to use it!Uh, KK finished half the framework and then stopped. We have no control over the framework.
If you're Pro-City, you're golden. Large apartments, easy-to-access resources, guards, transit system, etc.
If you're Anti-City or a Mercenary, you're screwed. 3 cab apartments, you have to climb ladders to get to resources, and GG/GR points aren't all that convenient relative to those resources.
If you're FA, you're a little better off than anti-city, but you're still limited to TINY APARTMENTS!
And there's the fact that NC's safezones prevent a lot of juvenile PKing while people have their tradeskill needs serviced. It's gonna really suck for those without LEs when the safezones are removed and the new influx of players arrives.
NC's framework isn't finished. You can't be a true outlaw because there are no unguarded apartment locations in the wastes (and I'm not sure but I don't think there are a whole lot of un-OPed resource vendors (parts/substances/tools)). You can't be a true anti-city because you've got no place to put your stuff!
NC's not finished. I was kidding when I said BDOY would fix it. I can hope, but I doubt it. It can't be that hard to add apartments to TG/Mil Base/TH, but they're not added and it's been over 18 months now. There aren't any lifts in the middle of nowhere, either. Everyone anti-city hangs out one zone away from PL1 - all the benefits of the city with none of the downsides of Pro-City faction neutralities and allies.
KK finished the city, finished part of the city enemies, botched the criminal element entirely (hello? The BIG apartments have less cabs than the SMALL apartments in PP), and then stopped. The game's not set up for criminals and only makes a passing attempt at being set up for anti-city. The Jail's a joke - yippie, a criminal hangout with no resources for the criminal element to stay supplied and active. What was the point? The DoY bots? Who cares? There's very little in those zones that make it worth being anti-city.
ice
i had u all wrong.
everything u said it true and its vary sad but i hav to say this. appys in pp are screwy like that because kk made it liek that if u read the key it will tell u. varyfunny wen u buy a large and was jipped :)
sad kk says theirs thousands of diffrent types of wepaons but in reality its so much less. all u do is upgrade from each one.
i really wish i had command over the pvp system i would change it so much. and add so much other benefits like increase loot drop to balance out econmy and other simular ideas
carinth why are u mad???
am just getting that u like the area u are hanging around.
I didn't mean to come off angry, I was just remembering the last time I had this discussion. It was with someone who believe I should stop staying in Plaza 3 and should go to Pepper Park just so he could fight me whenever he wanted too. I would like too move, really, but I'm not going too until KK balances the world better. For the reasons I mentioned and also the ones Ice posted it simply won't work now. There's limited hope they'll do it in BDOY, since they are "reworking factions", but I'll believe it when I see it.
I didn't mean to come off angry, I was just remembering the last time I had this discussion. It was with someone who believe I should stop staying in Plaza 3 and should go to Pepper Park just so he could fight me whenever he wanted too. I would like too move, really, but I'm not going too until KK balances the world better. For the reasons I mentioned and also the ones Ice posted it simply won't work now. There's limited hope they'll do it in BDOY, since they are "reworking factions", but I'll believe it when I see it.
yah am with u their
its the same dilly with parashock
i hear this from lots of ppus. parashock does ruin pvp but as long as its in game their goin to use it.
pvp does ruin it i belive y in hell does a tank hav it a melee tank thay had high damage now and shock u. may as well give a apu para shock.
KK IN ALL HONESTLY U REALLY NEED TO SCRAP THE PARASHOCK.
its never goin to end its only goin to get worst.
if its really a monk defence weapon y do thay shock u and stand around laughing when thay should be running. becuase their defence is strong enough on their own.
Birdman[H.E.]
30-06-04, 06:12
Man this post is amazing, even when i dont role a criminal, mostly im a friendly paladin of people :)
But you are right, hope KK listen to some of this IDEAS, they are great! :cool:
you could have bought the booster at wasteland merchants or mb or tg. You didnt have to go to the jail or crahn hq.
heres the shit that needs to be done
A. add gr to jail
and
B. Make SL permanent. You loose SL for killing allied/neutral faction with good sl. AND you only loose what they have hence if they have 20 and you have 40, you only loose 20 sl. If you go negative, you stay negative, you go red, you stay red. missions shouldnt give you SL anyways. they would have to think of another way to gain SL as a positive SL runner.
Agent FunHead
30-06-04, 06:29
The Red SL system started as a punishment to stop griefers from camping lvling areas like aggie dens and sewers.
Now (especially with the addition of the Jailhouse) people are seeing Red SL as a way to live 24/7 in neocron as RP.
I have no problem to this, the game was made for role playing and there isnt any current faction that hates everyone so it sounds fine.
except for the fact about your weapons lock slot, when RPing why should the criminal be forced to lose all his items when he dies.
Yet u cannot remove the belt system because of the griefers who brought the rule about in the first place.
I suggest there should be a faction for criminals (but wait there is, Anarchy Breed) this would allow for criminal RP without having to lose all your items and need to keep a stock of 40 TPCs ready so u can play
heres the shit that needs to be done
A. add gr to jail
and
B. Make SL permanent. You loose SL for killing allied/neutral faction with good sl. AND you only loose what they have hence if they have 20 and you have 40, you only loose 20 sl. If you go negative, you stay negative, you go red, you stay red. missions shouldnt give you SL anyways. they would have to think of another way to gain SL as a positive SL runner.
i would agree with that iof thay get rid of the item drop penalties. and just open up the first slot drop. and open up the belts to the PvP. if ur not the Pvper u should need a hacker.
heres the shit that needs to be done
A. add gr to jail
and
B. Make SL permanent. You loose SL for killing allied/neutral faction with good sl. AND you only loose what they have hence if they have 20 and you have 40, you only loose 20 sl. If you go negative, you stay negative, you go red, you stay red. missions shouldnt give you SL anyways. they would have to think of another way to gain SL as a positive SL runner.
The whole player concept of SL is wrong. Its there for a reason and this idea would just make killing that annoying asshole that just happens to be allied faction really hard.
SL is there to curve but not stop griefing type actions. It is not a reflection of your crimminal rank, or status in the family.
JackScratch
30-06-04, 06:46
I think what we are missing here, is not that red isnt manageable. The problem is that red is WAY WAY WAY too easily avoidable. Red SL to those who deserve red SL.
Being Anti-City doesn't make you a bad person. Soullight is your character, not your political stance.
I like the Drugs idea, but make it that it only happens in Safezones, so you can Trade in PepperPark.
Using drugs doesn't make you a bad person either. o_O
SL is there to curve but not stop griefing type actions. It is not a reflection of your crimminal rank, or status in the family.
Yes, it is. Low Soul Light means you have killed or helped to kill runners and NPCs with which you are allied or neutral towards. You are a criminal in that respect.
I don't see a problem with the drop rules for criminals. I do see a problem with criminals not having places to at least attempt to hole up and get services.
Whitestuff
30-06-04, 07:53
AMEN to you and your thread!! I can't really think of a time that many people RP'd in this game.... I have 2 or 3 times, but never really all the time. There is a lot to RP about, things to do, places to go, but everyone is too busy killing each other (or in my case, trying to stop those morons) to notice how cool the game really is.
I think I will start an OZ character, maybe with Crahn so my apt will be out there to start. It ought to be fun roleplaying a homeless monk, or an outlaw at that.
But then there is the item drop issue. What gives? Criminals can't hold onto their items when they are dead as well as law abiders? /sarcasim Oh I get it, criminals are always holding everything they own in their hands when they die.... duh?! /sarcasim
The Red SL system started as a punishment to stop griefers from camping lvling areas like aggie dens and sewers.
Now (especially with the addition of the Jailhouse) people are seeing Red SL as a way to live 24/7 in neocron as RP.
I have no problem to this, the game was made for role playing and there isnt any current faction that hates everyone so it sounds fine.
except for the fact about your weapons lock slot, when RPing why should the criminal be forced to lose all his items when he dies.
Yet u cannot remove the belt system because of the griefers who brought the rule about in the first place.
I suggest there should be a faction for criminals (but wait there is, Anarchy Breed) this would allow for criminal RP without having to lose all your items and need to keep a stock of 40 TPCs ready so u can play
man its really not that bad. wut ever happened to the days when their was no item slot and tech drops were like water almost it made me feel good finding a max of 6 techs from 1 mob and having a TPC when u go and kill a CS user and take his CS now those were the days when men were men.
Saying u drop a arare is just a word bak then everyone had like 2+ rares and gainin more each kill and no tech cost more then 200k nc Now man is crazy most techs nowadays are around 2mill and up. its getting expensive.
Now u see 2mill and fear of all that money.
But i see having a full rare at 1mill nc. Now those where the days
how about this, fuck the quickbelt shit. I'm a beta player and the whole belt shit is lame, get rid of it or make it so that rank 30 or under drops a belt. High lvl people who pvp mostly know what theyre doing and understand the consequences.
Jail house needs...
1. a GR that is locked to positive soul light players.
2. Reds drop nothing in the area.
3. Yellows drop as normal, greens drop 2 or more items.
4. Visual signs to stay the hell out of OZ8
5. Stop people levelling off the guards.
This will make the place more trader friendly to reds and increase the population. I frequent the jail house a lot but normally to loot belts, anytime I've bumped into someone it is generally a fight.
Great thread, i couldnt agree more with some of the statements, but anarchy breed are not criminals, Tsunami and BD are, AB are just poeple who do no want any form of structured control/government
the wasted areas need an incentive to get people in them. I had a conversation with some CMs on Uranus a coupla days ago about MB2, they wanted (me too) to clear it out and give CM and proper faction office down there, and mebbe a GR.
I think Red SL shouldnt be permanent, but it doesnt go up from doing simple missions, mebbe it only goes up from doing Epics and other large scale runs. What if htey removed changing factions, you choose oyur faction at the beginning, and the only way to change it is to perform very drastic actions.
That way if your join a specific faction your get a bonus, say FA get a bonus to Hacking and researching. and the criminal factions get a bonuses like say BD can buy drugs cheaper from specified dealers, then sell them off for profit...
why not just add a whole new faction, Criminal?
well Tsunami and BD ARE the criminal factions
Using drugs doesn't make you a bad person either. o_O
If you use drugs in a city where they're prohibited and the punishment for just about everything is death - yes it does... For propoganda purposes of course.
;)
Richard Slade
30-06-04, 12:47
One thing struck me...
What if you got something good out of red SL
(If this has been said, ignore me)
Like you're a criminal at red SL and the coppers really doesn't like you..
So why would you care about laws?
People at red SL should be able to draw weapon in ALL zones
of course this would be unfair when others can't.
But hey, they'll be shot by coppers anyways!
However the PPU... The disgrace of Neo is a problem..
So put up a defense removing shield
All buffs go bonkers when you draw a weapon in a protected zone.
Atleast you CAN draw the weapon and atleast you CAN try to kill something
before the coppers slap you up..
Just a thought out of the air..
Planting some seeds...
Richard Slade
30-06-04, 12:49
And yeah, add new faction-- Outlaws
Those who kill their own faction go here and won't get back until they prove themself..
Also thse with way to low SL
Agent FunHead
30-06-04, 12:54
man its really not that bad. wut ever happened to the days when their was no item slot and tech drops were like water almost it made me feel good finding a max of 6 techs from 1 mob and having a TPC when u go and kill a CS user and take his CS now those were the days when men were men.
Saying u drop a arare is just a word bak then everyone had like 2+ rares and gainin more each kill and no tech cost more then 200k nc Now man is crazy most techs nowadays are around 2mill and up. its getting expensive.
Now u see 2mill and fear of all that money.
But i see having a full rare at 1mill nc. Now those where the days
Eh i do remember those days well and it wasnt like that, the no safe slot sucked because it caused most players to move their rare from their quick belt right before death so they wouldnt drop it and we had to fill our quick belts with rubbish on the hope of dropping that.
as for parts being cheap thats all to do with the greater drop rate and less rares to collect for.
i think that the penatilties should be removed for low SL but make it that it DOSNT come back with out NCPD runs, which means if your too far gone, thats it your a crim. and the only way to get above that is to kill runners with even more -SL than you. but it does mean you wont be alowed into the city, like a real crim. also selling of ileagal drugs to other players, both sides will losse SL. and buying ilegal items off npcs will give you-SL
also will the DOY govenment want low SL runners in their city? cos they have been pking their own people or neturals.
so the crims of NC will live in the sewer system and the jail
I think that SL should not be "Karma" or whatever anymore.... its should be a meter to show the NCPS views you... so if you are criminal its red, if you are a good boy its green. The whole karma things makes it alot less easy to balance, like you say that you shouldn't lose SL for using Illegal drugs, because that doesn't make you a bad person, but it would be so much easier to say that it doesn't need to make you a 'bad' person, just a bad person in the eyes of the NCPD.
I don't think that missions should get your SL up.... but there should definitely be another way. Not something so easy, but not something that is entirely monotonous. Maybe have an NCPD faction counciller who you contact if you want to go back to the side of good, and they give you a long quest, or something like that.
The thing is right everytime some one posts remove the penatilties on SL we get the carebears who sit in there appys allday or whatever saying NO! They come up with the oh pkers will just gank all the noobs blah blah there is an LE chip in this game they should use it. I want to roleplay a real criminal but I can't cos I would drop all my shit and weapons when I get killed and after that I might as well quit. If I only dropped one item on the deck for having low soullight I would play a crim I would kill every runner I saw regaurdless of rank no point in calling your self a murder if you can't bare to kill you victims. I would live in the outzone where I would store the loot off my victims and do trades with other thugs and murders it would be so cool and add alot of fun to the game for everyone imo.
Maloch Octavia
30-06-04, 17:10
*Sighs*
We've diverted onto the subject of SL, which I wrote a huge, and detailed explanation on how to resolve this issue.
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=101127
Have a look, it's complex, it's detailed, and it works.
As you can see, no-one really cared.
They never do. :)
Which is a big issue with me, because here we see the Community is actively passionate about something, but whenever suggestions are offered, not just a paragraph, but full solutions are offered, they never seem to have the same gusto about them when it comes to one paragraph demands.
Can someone explain that to me?
Time and time again, the same threads reappear, when time and time again, some poor bastard spends hours working out a system, posts it, and gets it ignored by everyone.
Anyway, going to make a new thread about what you want in the zones, as this is what I was getting at originally.
Thanks for that idea of doing that Judge.
np dude.
I didn't even realise that you had posted that thread. :eek: I must have been asleep or something.
Just read the whole thread and theres some really nice ideas in here infact I like them all but griefing in the aggies would be a big problem. I know If I could I would go in there and kill alot of people on some days :lol: so I think aggies should at least be a no fire zone everyone would become LE'd when they enter a bit like when an LE'd runner enters neofrag they lose there protective LE
edit: besides killing people down there is pointless it sucks to get killed at such a low lvl over and over agian I only relised this when I tryed to lvl my noob down there. I was the first time I lvled a char in a long time I think I got pked like 20 times and I had to put the damn LE chip back in cos it was impossible to lvl. I don't pk noob down there that much anymore infact the last time I did was weeks ago and it was becuase they where in a clan I do not like
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