View Full Version : Idea to stop trade skill scamming
sanityislost
25-06-04, 04:08
ok its short and simple
when you right click on anyone have a lil bit that says "Show Info", when you
click it a lil window pops up with the persons Cst,Ress,Bart..ect values. Most
tradeskillers who have worked hard to level there char wont scam people.
if you pick no or maybe plz post why n_n
SiL ..:..
tomparadox
25-06-04, 04:14
i pic yes, because i think its a good idea, i dont like people saying " I cst TL 240" then he steals your shit...
SmackDaddy
25-06-04, 04:52
It seems a little too Orwellian. I guess you could explain it with all the implants everone is packing, but the skill values seem to be a concrete representation of an abstract idea, so it's not clear how an implant could suck your barter skill level out of your nervous system. Plus, I kind of like the "roll your dice and take your chances" flavor of the current system. You prefer to deal with people you know and trust, and if you have to deal with someone else, you takes your chances...
I voted no. (Although I don't want you to quit!)
I think trust is a part of this game, because Neocron is a city filled with Criminals, Muggers and Pimps. Remove scamming and you remove this sexy element.
Shadow Dancer
25-06-04, 04:59
I vote yes, great idea.
But I would prefer some sort of new window sort of like trade, where you put your item in it and they put cash and you click "ok" or "yes", and then it starts being constructed or modded. When it's done it can be put back in your inventory.
But your idea is good too. :p
sanityislost
25-06-04, 05:13
Well i havent had much problems with stealing my stuff, the main prob ive
had is people saying "I Have 250 repair" and i think "Sweet, get my lil rare
thingy fixed" next thing u know its went from xxx/120 to xxx/107. it drives
me insane lol
@Benjie: lol okies wont quit
SiL ..:..
I think trust is a part of this game, because Neocron is a city filled with Criminals, Muggers and Pimps. Remove scamming and you remove this sexy element.
Exactly.
I voted no. (Although I don't want you to quit!)......
me, to. i hate the idea because to many numbers kill RP. one thing i can support is that there are some faction items that show that the guy is a "master constructor" or that. you can still abuse that by giving such a token to other players but thats the fun in RP
btw... you can fuck youself if you like.
@ Benji: Sexy element? good God, getting half a dozen unressed 'E' parts stolen was one of the unsexiest things that ever happened to me. On Pluto I cons well enough to make my own rares, but I got shafted on Saturn with a all-70ish %s on a libby because of soem scammer, not sexy, not sexy at all
I agree. I spent the time and leveled painstakingly to Cons 200 (well before I LoMmed half of it :( ) so why should some asshole with a cons barely high enough to make a rare get to take my business just because he lies through his teeth.
I agree. I spent the time and leveled painstakingly to Cons 200 (well before I LoMmed half of it :( ) so why should some asshole with a cons barely high enough to make a rare get to take my business just because he lies through his teeth.
Because that's life and how "CON" artist work. Which is part of the dark world of neocron.
One thing the COMMUNITY could try to do is actually require a weapon to be displayed (high level) that actualy has your name on it and high stats. You can use this as your trademark weapon so to speak. If I go to a master swordsman I'd like to see some of his work. This can be done with a constructor but sadly not with anything else :\ .
I'd like to see an epic sort of quest be able to be run when you've reached a certain level of "natural" tradeskill points. This can be displayed in citycom so if you've reached this level and run the quest and completed it people will know you have at least this skill or higher. It' wouldnt' be a requirment but people might doubt you if you don't have it :p
I voted no (I'm guessing u dont play pluto if ur getting scammed that much so .. quit *shrugs)
If you don't trust some1 don't give them your shit... simple as that lol.role a seperate character join a trusted clan.... get a new account. I've never scammed n e 1(i have a tradeskiller)
There areenough enemy ppl walking arounf with "made by .bob"on the end to see that im legit, ask around.... DM your friends b4 losing 50 un ID rares or a 6 CS parts to a tradeskiller b4 moaning on the forums. If someone doesn't trust me then dont give me your shit ffs i dont wonna work for you... go on... fuck off :P
Anything to stop scams is good because im normaly the on to get em :eek: but i dunno :rolleyes:
I'm usually the one who scams people.....
But I do it in within roleplay, and I always give people a second chance by roleplaying afterwards.
I really do not want this to be implamented, otherwise I will probabally leave Black Dragon. Whats the point of being a criminal when you can't roleplay as one?
Not voting as your vote list is biased and also public.
Clownst0pper
25-06-04, 09:24
Personally each character should have a record, which players can write about them, so if they are a scammer, it can be viewed by all.
Personally each character should have a record, which players can write about them, so if they are a scammer, it can be viewed by all.
I would prefere it if this was simple word of mouth.
Again; trust.
Psychoninja
25-06-04, 09:51
I'm really against anything that makes this "hardcore" cyber punk world friendly...so no.
Word of mouth works for me and thats how it should be imo.
If you get scammed, oh well.
A tradeskiller that gets his reputation burned might as wel lom it all out, or go in hiding as a clan only tradeskiller.
Plus if he repeatedly did it, he can't walk around much without being shot and hacked all the time.
.. actually require a weapon to be displayed (high level) that actualy has your name on it and high stats....
lol, so simple ;) that nobody think of it. same goes for "show me your TL150 research tool".
this isnt EBay with guns. its an rpg, if someone scams you ic then take it ic, if thet scam you ooc the find them ooc and shoot them ;)
Personally each character should have a record, which players can write about them, so if they are a scammer, it can be viewed by all.
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Repeat after me ...
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
........................ =.=
SmackDaddy
25-06-04, 15:45
lol, so simple ;) that nobody think of it. same goes for "show me your TL150 research tool".
You show me your tool :wtf: I'll show you my rares :lol:
They are both good ideas - all you have to do is keep that named 5-slotter for your skill token instead of giving it to your alt or customer (ouch!). Plus if someone scams you, throw up a post in the in-game forums. I learned my lesson early, with a mid-level weapon - I gave a batch of parts to some guy and he gave me back a bunch of 60% weapons. No rares involved but now I know better. If I have rares, I'm waiting until I can deal with the guy I trust.
Come to think of it, it's a lot like real life - make quick deals with people you don't know and you often get screwed.
the only thing needed to be done with scammers, is for people to be more careful.
we shouldnt have everything done for us, in the same way PvPers reps are built from killing tradeskillers reps come from making the weapons, go for poeple with known(good) reps and you cant go wrong.
Back a long time ago when Pluto had 500+ people on it, scamming was getting to be a problem, especialy for researchers. It was almost common practice for researchers to keep crappy rare parts on hand to swap with any good ones they happen to id for you. They give you the crappy ones and keep the good ones. About a half dozen of us researchers got together and formed an organization to do something about scamming. We created the Association of Certified Researchers, which members could display in their adds (TL 200 resser -ACR-). We agreed on common pricings and a system to verify new researchers actualy had the skill they reported. We kept a list of all current members, I believe it was in the forum here, so that customers could verify we really are in the ACR. It worked wonderfuly, business went up for us since customers knew they could trust us. They also knew how much it would cost for our services, so there was never any ugly suprises. Though most of the members have quit by now, I still have my tag in the Player/Info section of cityterm.
While creating an organization like this may be a bit extreme, this is a sample of how you play NC. Don't get KK to make some artificial imposed rule, have the players make it themselves. Just as how you can be ganked while hunting or in your own apartment, so too you can be scammed or ripped off. To combat it, make friends, find out who other's trust to do their valuables. Or make your own tradeskiller, noway safer then to do it yourself.
Clownst0pper
25-06-04, 17:45
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Repeat after me ...
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
Neocron, not eBay.
........................ =.=
Ive never used eBay once - and never would 8|
I'm usually the one who scams people.....
But I do it in within roleplay, and I always give people a second chance by roleplaying afterwards.
I really do not want this to be implamented, otherwise I will probabally leave Black Dragon. Whats the point of being a criminal when you can't roleplay as one?
Roleplay being a thief and criminal in pepper park or the wastelands, roleplaying being a thief blatently in front of a copbot is just being a hypocrite.
Anyway Black Dragon aren't thieves if you bothered to read the faction info for the faction your roleplaying you would know that it says this:
The Black Dragons control the illegal drug market in Neocron, dealing in anything from over the counter products to black market goods. They also control parts of the real estate market.
So being a thief isnt roleplaying your faction its just being a lamer.
There should be a blacklist of known thieves but it would probably abused by clans blacklisting people they dont like rather then thieves.
Shadow Dancer
25-06-04, 19:28
Yes it's a dark gritty futuristic world. So Dark and dangerous, even in the shadowy corners of neocron, copbots can somehow see you and won't let you pull out a weapon, but that Twilight Guardian "terrorist" CSTer can steal your stuff and be protected by the very same copbots who are present to prevent people from breaking the laws. :rolleyes:
Funny thing is, some of the very same people who vote against this also vote against safezones because they say it will be harder to tradeskill. :lol:
Or against removing safe slot and belts, because they might lose stuff
Scamming is part of the game. If you dont trust people, dont let them take your stuff. And i think bounty hunting should be a very lucrative job, once the safe zones are removed.
Promethius
26-06-04, 00:56
ok its short and simple
when you right click on anyone have a lil bit that says "Show Info", when you
click it a lil window pops up with the persons Cst,Ress,Bart..ect values. Most
tradeskillers who have worked hard to level there char wont scam people.
if you pick no or maybe plz post why n_n
SiL ..:..
Its a decent idea with a drawback. Wat if so and so works hard on making a CSter and wants to keep his CST value a secret. Maybe if you had the option to show ur CSt value and if a CSter didn't show u the value u can jsut go to another person. My 5 cents.
-Prom
sanityislost
26-06-04, 01:00
Its a decent idea with a drawback. Wat if so and so works hard on making a CSter and wants to keep his CST value a secret. Maybe if you had the option to show ur CSt value and if a CSter didn't show u the value u can jsut go to another person. My 5 cents.
-Prom
KK have already told us the higher the cst value the better, so it wouldnt really matter.
SiL ..:..
No. The saying "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is" applies here.
Avoiding scamming is simple. You just never give anything valuable to a complete stranger, especially if he is in a hostile clan/faction, advertises a higher skill than you might expect from his rank and class, or has a name like BLOWJOB or i_dont_steal_stuff_honest.
Promethius
26-06-04, 01:05
KK have already told us the higher the cst value the better, so it wouldnt really matter.
SiL ..:..
Well if you believe that, the best of luck to ya m8. Do some testing.
-Prom
To me the matter is not avoiding to be scammed. Of course it is easy, if we just keep our business for ourselves we will be safe, and if you have several accounts like me or many others, you can even keep it at home.
This is exactly what I did after my working break, I re-activated my tradeskillers account and I worked on my researcher and my constructor. Simple task. Is this productive? Sure, for KK's pocket, but our player interaction is being damaged IMO.
However this is not RP and does not add a cyberpunkish dangerous atmosphere at all. To me the dark and danger enviroment is finding outside a mofo like VetteroX, if you look him badly he will make you 300 new holes. In this world if I was scammed, I would point my gun to the bastard and blow his head, or he would give me back plasma and bullets instead my rare.
But this does not happen, scams happen in safezones, where they take advantage of game mechanics to cheat us without consequences. Yet we cannot have game mechanics against them because it would ruin the cyberpunk atmosphere. No sorry, some persons here are mistaken the dark enviroment with abuse.
Honestly, if scams and CON artists hide behind game mechanics (safezones, magic copbot rules) to avoid being retaliated, they have no right to complain about other game mechanics to stop them or make it harder for them.
Now if safezones were removed, this would change completely. But they are not and will not be removed, just 'moved' to faction HQs and suppossedly pubs, bars, etc...
If you ask me, I preffer the removal of safe zones rather than any game mechanic to prevent abuse.
Why?
Because THAT would truly create the cyberpunk atmosphere that you talk about, and no one could complain.
Until then, we make our own mules, work on clans, or elaborate lists with trusted traders. We ALL do this, altho sometimes scams happen because none of these are 24h services. However, even understanding and realizing of the situation, and knowing the personal fix, I cannot and will not support any kind of scam under the regular circunstances mentioned.
Richard Slade
26-06-04, 02:52
Make all tradeskilling into the poking version
just add a window when this occurs
"Do you want to allow [Insert player name] with a [Insert skill and value] to [Insert Assemble/Research] this for you for the cost of [Insert amount the dude wants]?
And of course add that the bank (game) takes a certain % to remove some bucks from the game
Well if you believe that, the best of luck to ya m8. Do some testing.
-Prom
it is true thanatos announced it himself on a thread.
yupper, I'm too lazy to dig out the link atm, but Thanatos himself discussed how slots and quality is determined.
Theoretically the % is capped when you can overcap all of the stats, so, again theoretically you should only need 175-200 in cons to cap all chances because the only rares over 115 are unslotable drones.
the real issue with tradeskill scamming often isn't in consing, but you see it a lot more in repping and ressing, where people with no actual skill in res just take your rares and give you crappy ones they have on hand, I would never trust anyone but a clannie or a close faction-mate to res for me, I usually do it myself.
I've mentioned it in my brainport post (please read and respond there, it's my take on the tradeskiller issue and a few compromise ideas) that the biggest thing is there is no way to realistically respond to a scammer because we cannot impose penalties harsh enough to really bother anyone without expending vast personal resources and shit-lots of time. IRL if you scam a gangster (IE BD or a Tsunami) you'd get your kneecaps broken, or you'd be found floating in a river. In game there's no way to do something like that, so there isn't enough fear to keep people honest :)
Anybody who constructed before they capped will tell you that theres a flip point, anything KK tell you has to be taken as a very rough guide as they dont want everyone being an amazing constructer that get good slots 90% of the time.
I leveled a constructer and she was better during her base 70s and 80s then in her base 90s.
Well if you believe that, the best of luck to ya m8. Do some testing.
-Prom
I'm 100% behind u there.
IF that was true drugging/const3 would help me. I've never built a rare 3+slot and drugged. Undugged and buffless is teh win for my bob
Sleaver, you don't understand how tradeskillers work. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if you removed all safezones, tradeskillers would move to their apartments and become even more isolated/exclusive. Tradeskillers will not stand around in non safe zones to perform their services. Unless of course its an area with guards protecting them, but even then the guards won't stop a neutral or allied faction member from running in and killing everyone.
The current system isn't so bad, it would work if people stuck to a single character most of the time. When you get scammed, write down the guy's name/faction/clan if he has a clan that is. Tradeskillers do have to go hunting sometime, if you find out were they normaly go hunting you can get your revenge there. If they are part of a clan, you can either inform their leader or just declare war on the entire clan. You can also be sure to tell everyone you know about the scammer. There are lots of ways to get back at asshole tradeskilers, though maybe its not as satisfying at shooting him when he did the scam, it's still something.
I also disagree about scamming ruining the social element of neocron. If anything, it forces you to get to know people. You hafta ask around about a tradeskiller, maybe a friend has used them before and they're trustworthy. As a tradeskiller myself, this is prolly the most enjoyable aspect of the game. You can build a positive reputation for yourself and people will recommend you to others because of it. When it comes down to it, tradeskilling is most often purely luck based. There's not much to distinguish one tradeskiller from another, so it's nice to have a reputation as an honest tradeskiller. Or a dishonest tradeskiller, some have fun with a negative reputation.
Not every tradeskiller demands a safezone to work in. As a TG I was happy to tradeskill in the Canyon even when it was being raided regularly. If I was Tsunami or BD I would happily tradeskill inside Pepper Park, aside from the fact I would get no trade. Ask Marx about what happens. It's not the tradeskillers, it;s also the customers.
I think there is more RP value in tradeskillers working from apartments (ever thought it odd about building possibly dodgy items right in front of CopBots?). If you watch a film like Blade Runner, when people go to talk to some knowledgable scientist or arms dealer, it's not in the middle of the street. It's in the guy's apartment.
Besides with DoY, Plaza will still technically be a safezone. There will still be CopBots on hand to keep out anti-city, and so anyone able to kill tradeskillers is going to lose SL, and therefore kill more than one or two and the CopBots will take them out. I'd happily accept a contract to protect a tradeskiller who felt threatened, in fact, as CA on Saturn I'd consider it my duty.
Yeah marx tried to tradeskill in the OZ jail and in pepperpark if i remember right but ended up having to tradeskill in the PP subway station because very few people were willing to go to a non-safezone for tradeskillers.
Yeah marx tried to tradeskill in the OZ jail and in pepperpark if i remember right but ended up having to tradeskill in the PP subway station because very few people were willing to go to a non-safezone for tradeskillers.
Yep. Though it's not just that, another part would be that a lot of people are simply too lazy to go all the way to Pepper for a tradeskiller.
Well back when we started the game we did all our trades and business in TG, in fact I did not step into Neocron after a couple of months of playing, and we never had a problem finding tradeskillers. Eventually I made my own traders, and I did not hesitate working in unsafe zones.
Where is the secret then? In the deal of trust.
It should affect both contracts, the trader and the customer, so when you start business with someone both sides have to trust the other. In a no safe zone this is possible. In safe zones only the customer is risking a cost, because the trader has a game mechanic at his favour, hence customers asking for another feature that balances the situation.
The purpose of this thread is to equalize the terms of the contract, in this case adding another game feature to prevent the abuse from scammers.
Inside this subject I say that without safe zones some arguments presented by the scammer-supporters would be perfectly feasible, but it is not the case.
Back then it was even harder, you knew the situation, our items dropped directly in the floor, our guards were complete wank, and especifically in Saturn we had a TG clan that raided us periodically. Yet trades happened, and we did our work and business in appts and shops alike.
You are right saying that I do not understand how tradeskillers work NOW. It is true, I am unable to accept that people would not be able to work 'perfectly' without safezones. That's my personal opinion, like your own which is the opposite. This opinion was created because, like many others, I had to do it. But not all of us experience the same, do we? ;)
You wisely mentioned that having scammers also enforce the honest traders, who build a reputation and therefore improve their status in the community. This is very correct.
I do not mean to condemn scammers however, but the abuse of the safezone feature to avoid the costs of their behaviours, in fact I am one of the most fervent defenders of the criminal behaviours in the game, because I believe that we NEED them. However these cannot happen at our pleasure and leisure, without a cost or reward, because then we are abusing the system. It is like the pk'er avoiding the SL hit by doing a couple of missions, I don't agree with this; but true is that I also disagree with the current SL negatives.
This is a matter of point of view, I don't disagree with your vision of the situation, but I'm looking at it from other side, and thus referring to another matter.
I think its more lazyness than anything else.
I've tried to tradeskill o pluto and on saturn with everytradeskill at the same time (2 characters usualy me and a m8) in plaza 4 and u get lik no customers. Maybe the odd 115 poke who tips u 2k but no real business in it.
Its a shame really plaza 4 rules.
Shadow Dancer
27-06-04, 06:18
I think plaza 4 is beautiful and well designed. Also Via rossa 1. The one with access to the subway.
Promethius
27-06-04, 07:25
it is true thanatos announced it himself on a thread.
If thanatos announces DoY is comming out tomorrow, you would believe him?
I didnīt bother with reading peoples comments...
Sorry to say, but... itīs part of the game...
Just donīt give your stuff to people you donīt trust...
EDIT : and I would have Voted no.. but since there is no actual no, Iīm not gonna vote.
Psycho Killa
27-06-04, 07:33
If thanatos announces DoY is comming out tomorrow, you would believe him?
Yes, yes I would actualy. He is a member of the kk staff.
sanityislost
27-06-04, 07:34
Ermmmmm the Nope = no, i talk/type weird....sowwy for the mix up n_n
SiL ..:..
I didnīt bother with reading peoples comments...
Sorry to say, but... itīs part of the game....
You should actually read other peoples views and points about something rather then presuming your right.
I voted no, don't quit. But i think that the possibility of theives is cool, albeit i'm pissed if it happens to me, i still like it. It's closer to being real, if you take you auto to a mechanic, you have nothing but his word and the info others give you to tell you he/she is any good. So yeah.
Bred
witchdoctor075
27-06-04, 22:17
At first I thought yes, but I say "NO" It takes the reality of that something could get stolen. You take your chances when you give something of your own and give it to another to repair, cst, etc... It takes all the (the "role-playing") out of it...So, I still say no!! Sooner or later, a new player will know who they can or can't trust.
You should actually read other peoples views and points about something rather then presuming your right.
Excuse me... ???
Sorry to say, but... itīs part of the game...
Just donīt give your stuff to people you donīt trust...
Where do I presume I am right ?
itīs my interpretation of the game that scamming was part of the game..
But actually now that you say it.... I am right...
If the post is still out there somewhere, you will find in an old thread, (think it was Odin or Niddy) saying that itīs part of the game...
Itīs the future.. the world is barely liveable... many people mutated, lots of people poor and starving.... and you still trust everyone ??
In that case you are far too naive in my opinion..
No your not right naimex, in neocron every crime has the penalty of death and stealing is a crime yet copbots dont kos thieves how is that right?
Any KK employee saying its a part of the game is like saying the sync bug is a feature its and easy way out for them so they dont have to do anything about it.
And the plaza and viarosso sectors of necron city look very habitable to me if thieving went on outside neocron I wouldnt have any problem with it but it happens in safezones where people hide behind copbots who should shoot them for stealing in the first place.
I said all this earlier but of course you were too presumptuous to read that.
I actually trust virtually no tradeskillers still active in this game thats why Ive had a broken SF on my spy on uranus for the last 3 months because I know nobody who can rep it for me and definitely get it back so Im not naive naimex and your opinion means nothing to me.
your opinion means nothing to me.
Then how dare you call me presumptious, and complain that I donīt read every post.. when anything anyone says means nothing to you ??
and the Copbots donīt kos, cuz itīs not possible for KK or anyone to make a script that works, if someone stole it..
Who is to say it was stolen rather than given ??
The script canīt see that..
and THAT is why copbots donīt KOS thieves.
Yet you think thieving should go unpunished in an area where a runner cant even dish out the punishment himself?
Psycho Killa
27-06-04, 23:03
Mr snow thats why law enforcers and safe zones must be completely removed.
Yet you think thieving should go unpunished in an area where a runner cant even dish out the punishment himself?
No, I donīt..
I have been a supporter of making every zone in the game Warzones... and all copbot inhabited cityzones into Anarchy zones..
A person should be punished, also by the law, in places where the law is present.. but in the zones where the law is not present, there should be no law...
But I am against people getting bum-rushed by copbots in a zone where they canīt fight back.
And I am still of the opinion that Law Enforcers go against any rule of Roleplay.
Mr snow thats why law enforcers and safe zones must be completely removed.
dont think so. one of them must stay. i dont want save zones like now but if you are remove LE there should be additional save rules for "noobs" because there is now way that they have a chance to even defend themselfs.
well with doy there are only a few save zones. you can easy control the exits of that save zone and watch the ppl that movin in and out.
if you get scammed by one of you faction with LE in.hmm, try to contact you faction oficials to get stuff back or kick him out of you faction.
after all its RPG and if something can be threaded that way thats the best you can do.
Psycho Killa
27-06-04, 23:34
You can't control the exits for shit because scammers will leave there character logged off in the safe zone and never leave.
Mc5 is more then enough to let noobs get acclimated to the game. After that its every man for himself.
I don't care if safezones are removed because I have my LE. I do care if the LE is removed because I flat-out cannot defend myself. My chars are not set up for PvP and never will be. They're set up for PvM and tradeskilling, which means they provide a service you can't get from a non-LE'd tradeskiller: service in all but NPC-hostile sectors (and even then I can stealth to a corner in TG if I have to).
LE's not hard to miss. Bright green in the people box, so it's not hard to note that someone has an LE before entering into a tradeskill deal with the person. If the deal goes bad, word of mouth should be enough to ruin someone's reputation.
And to whoever thinks higher CST == better construction, you really should read the skills guide. Only 60% of construction ability is determined by CST skill. The other 40% is INT/DEX. Mainstats matter.
As to having stats on display for all? No. If you make it so that those stats are visibile, then I want visibility on ALL stats. I want to see these magical resist settings people use.
I really don't get the scamming threads. Scamming is part of the game, unfortunately. Deal with it using in-game mechanics, not KK.
Psycho Killa
28-06-04, 04:48
Well the law enforcer hasn't much to do with the tradeskill scamming since like you said you can just not deal with le tradeskillers. Just my personal opinion creeping into the thread :)
I was pointing out that LEs are easy to spot. People tend to forget that. I'm usually shot at a few times before people look in the People box...
Psycho Killa
28-06-04, 04:52
Are you sure there not fooling around/ being stupid since you cant target an le person all you can do it shoot at the air infront of them. Anyone who pvps even a little bit would realize right away you have an le when they target you.
Usually it's at a GR and one of us has just come through. I get shot at point-blank most of the time.
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