View Full Version : Spirit Mod 'Effect'
Ok, I know this will probably get a lot of flack but hey, it's my opinion and I think, after seeing the Spirit Mod in effect against our enemies, a little change should be made.
When you're getting Antibuffed/Antisheilded, you see the "HEY YOU! YEAH YOU IN THE BLUE! THIS IS FOR YOU!" lines of doom.
When an Antiheal drone hits you, you get this 3 second "PSI Effect" that counts down, then bam, heal is gone.
As I've experienced on my APU at point blank range, when a Spirt Modded SH bullet hits me, I just lose shelter and that's it. It reminds me of the frustration I had when Devs stacked your screen with 15 poisons and you were Antibuffed/Shielded and you had no ability to see your RPOS. Granted, this isn't the same because you do see the Shelter disappear (assuming you don't have 15 stacks ;)), but it's still somewhat vague. So, to get to my point, I kinda think that when you're tagged by a Spirit Modded SH bullet, you should get the same 3 second "PSI Effect" and bam, shelter should be gone.
I'm lovin our snipers getting this incredibly uber power that has allowed them to drop PPUs, even solo, but at the same time - it seems like the whole sledgehammer effect of changes. The Spirit Mod definitely needs to stay and there were even other mods that someone had suggested before on another thread (Saza's APWs (http://neocron.jafc.de/showthread.php?t=100765)). And fact is, this shouldn't change much of anything except for giving PPUs a little more of a chance, and from what I've witnessed the past few days - unless they're just not adapting yet, PPUs are *so* easy to drop with Spirit Spies on your side.
So yeah - rate the thread, vote in the poll, post your thoughts.
It's not a drastic change and shouldn't change all that much except for the frustration of being a PPU, which is already the most 'stressed out' class in Neocron :p
--Edit--
Ok, evidently putting a 3 option poll up isn't something the forum wants me to do because it posted it without taking me to the Poll screen o_O
Would a mod be so kind as to add a poll with:
- Good Idea, try it.
- Bad Idea, leave it as is.
- Another Idea, posted below.
Thanks... *grumbles at forum*
tomparadox
25-06-04, 00:35
3 seconds is to long... a good/somewhat good ppu can cast a holy heal in under 3 seconds.. theyll have it started before the coutdown is out and it will finish like like right after the coutdown is done, then bam, heal is back on...
Sounds good. Or give the muzzle flash when firing Spirit ammo a bright PSI effect to point it out.
EDIT: I think you can add a poll using the Thread tools at the top of the page.
i actually think its overpowered in certain senses, for example what really annoys me is spies using the silent hunter in PvP duels and in neofrag duels, as a spy i rely on my shelter a hell of a lot, and sheltering up then as soon as the duel starts he/she shooting me with a spirit modded SH and my shelter just dissapearing then pulling out hes/hers primary pvp weapon is annoying as hell.
tomparadox
25-06-04, 00:37
maby have the buffs start to blink when you get shot? for like 3 - 4 seconds? that way they have a chance to see it...
edit: id like to know this... how the hell dose everyone have so much of this ammo? i thought it was GM spawn only and that only a GM that you find and kill could give it out...
EDIT: I think you can add a poll using the Thread tools at the top of the page.
No, I can't. Tried.
Mods? Mods? Beuller? Beuller?
Not a bad idea, but I would like to actually see something even more visible. For instance, if you were to make the Spirit bullet impact have the same graphic as a Raygun Cannon blob impact (maybe on a smaller scale) I think that would a) look insanely cool, b) let whomever was hit know that they *definately* got smacked by something nasty and c) stop the complaints about having buffs simply go *poof* with no real effects.
--Stryfe
maby have the buffs start to blink when you get shot? for like 3 - 4 seconds? that way they have a chance to see it...
edit: id like to know this... how the hell dose everyone have so much of this ammo? i thought it was GM spawn only and that only a GM that you find and kill could give it out...
The ammo is clonable, people have been making stashes of it incase they ever get a hold of a mod.
Lucid Dream
25-06-04, 02:16
I dont necessarilly agree with a 3 second timer on it.. but there does need to be some warning.. I dont see why they cant have say, a big ass 'rez/antibuff' effect, but say.. make it green, right as its fired, and have it last a good second or so, so its still instant, but unless you are playing NC with your feet in your eyes, you would see it.
Eledhbrant
25-06-04, 03:21
rofl big glowing green projectiles all over an OP, beautiful :D
it should make a sound effect when you get debuffed.
I agree with FN, the timer would be the best option. With a sound or flash of light you're still getting instanly debuffed without warning, the idea is to let the ppu know before he is debuffed. 5 Stars.
Ozambabbaz
25-06-04, 04:33
i'd say no, and add that we need more stuff to combat buffs/PPUs
Shadow Dancer
25-06-04, 04:55
i'd say no, and add that we need more stuff to combat buffs/PPUs
hehe
I vote no(err, when the poll is up). The only way I would vote yes is if it removes heal, deflector, and shelter. Then a warning would be fine. But I don't think ppus deserve a warning. Why should they get one?
The only way I would vote yes is if it removes heal, deflector, and shelter. Then a warning would be fine. But I don't think ppus deserve a warning. Why should they get one?
agree completely
PPUs do make a sound effect when they get debuffed, at least if you're on Teamspeak... something along the lines or "son-of-a-bitch!"
Joking aside though (don't know why I feel so punchy today, oh well)
I agree they should get a warning, but no delay, if you put a 3 or even 2 second delay on it, the player sees it, pulls one out, pops a booster if he has to and has all the time in the world to put it back up. For a PPU with good skills, a nice PSI pool and a lot of psi use, you can cast a holy deflector in a few seconds.
maybe a sound effect is the way to go, or maybe a slight 'flash' onscreen (red, maybe, or green, like when poision hits?) and a chat message saying 'your deflector field has collapsed? or something like that?
When you hit a deflector shield it makes a white spinning lines. How about having that effect for 1-2 seconds except that the colour is red or black.
Clownst0pper
25-06-04, 09:23
Y should you be warned that the spirit bullet is having an effect?
A bullet travelling as fast as sniper rifles shoot, isnt going to stop as soon as it hits your deflector, wait afew seconds, and then hit you now is it?
Personally I dont see a problem with the spirit ammo, there just isnt the quantity of them to be worried about.
If a PPU cant deal with this, he's not much of a PPU, I don't want him with me in an OP or Chaos Cave...
i agree your deflector should wizz around all red like and go down in about 2 secs
I think you are all missing the point on the Spirit Mod. everyone says PPUs dont deserve this that etc. I have fought a number of times vs SXR in Op fights and it is not an anti PPU weapon it makes it easy to kill everyone. It is a major influence in the outcome of an Op fight. Everyone shot by this is desheltered and then vulnerable to every PvP weapon in the game (cept libby/PE/SH/Termi). So in effect the Spirit mod sniper is an extreme long range support class not a killer in their own right. Most if not all times i have died its to a CS/HL/Rhino main gun etc not a sniper finishing me.
Spirit mod shames APUs debuff as it is stealthy/hard to see (the point of this thread) yet it is also possible to "debuff" at max clipping range, it takes 2-3 seconds per shot. I have an APU and it takes me 3 seconds to cast holy debuff but due to psi pool constraints it takes maybe 3 seconds more to get the chance to fire again - total of 6 seconds. In addition i am vulnerable as i have to stand still for 3 seconds mid op surrounded by enemys with the "effect" saying Shoot me shoot me im a debuffing apu. :(
Spirit mod at worst should have stayed at removing Def as lets face it Snipers now use Spirit mod then a HLight so the sniper letahlity effect is unchanged except HLight is better DPS. In effect if anything Spirit mods should Ignore/Bypass Deflector and not remove buffs. Rationalisation arguments about warnings vs sniper/Shields dropping are irrelevant as in effect why should Snipers debuff - they should be snipers not "the" decisive support class. And remember this mod effects every class in the game not just the PPU so try to think balance for the game as a whole not just look at how to limit/kill 1 class (the PPU).
In additiion the Spirit mod should be like any other rare - a standard drop or you get the situation where the Items define your sucess not your skills (or worse an entire Op forces ability is decided by an item) . NC has always been great as winning is based on team work, tactics, game knwolege and skills not just what items you own. As it is we will learn to adapt but it still is a situation of overall balance - so no im not against change but i dont like snipers being debuffers like this they are killers in their own right not support)
Just my tuppence worth, please discuss and try not to flame. This is my opinion and im not saying i am right but it is what i THINK :)
Sako
aka Spirit
If you like how the spirit mod works now and/or want more debuffing tools then you fit into one or more of the following catagories:
A) You do not play a combat oriented ppu.
B) You have some personal vendetta against ppu's.
C) Your ideal balancing would involve the deletion of the class altogether.
D) You like to watch others suffer.
I really dislike debuff altogether, it's the wrong way to deal with ppu's. We're the defensive masters of this game, yet ways to circumvent our defense are popping up everywhere. Whats the point of super defense if everyone can knock it down without much effort? I would much rather have ppu's killable by normal weapons and some way for a team to protect the ppu put in. But since KK seems to prefer making ppu's suffer, we're going the debuff route. No change in importance or responsibility, while boosting risk/stress of doing the ppu job.
In regards to the SH specificly though, it should definitly have something to make it more comparible to apu's debuff. Even if you don't agree that ppu's should get a warning, you should recognize that the spirit mod put's apu's to shame. In the time it takes an apu to debuff me, a spy can do it several times. Plus the spy isn't doing anything conspicious, he just points a gun at you and shoots. Much the same as the Tank, PE, and other angry players are doing to the ppu. It just so happens that this spy is using a spirit modded SH and your shelter will vanish. Debuffing is the apu's most valuable asset to a team, making spies able to do it and better then an apu can will make apu's less worthwhile.
Right how can u say i love this weapon when its on my side lol. Hell and tank and a spy have downed some of the best ppu's on the server using this weapon. My personal vote is that i think its overpowered there u are looking after 6 people where the fuck has my shelt gone recast
*over comms* need shelt
*me* i just gave u fucking shelt
*over comms* i need it to me to me to me to me to
*me* shit
this is a overpowered weapon and to say there is only a few mods out there would be a joke and they are still dropping. which means there will be more and more happy go lucky snipers standing 2 foot away from u chasing u with constant de shelt. A warning or delay is the only way to balance this. But i don't want to see it removed as it adds a new challenge and i love challenges.
If you like how the spirit mod works now and/or want more debuffing tools then you fit into one or more of the following catagories:
A) You do not play a combat oriented ppu.
B) You have some personal vendetta against ppu's.
C) Your ideal balancing would involve the deletion of the class altogether.
D) You like to watch others suffer.
E) You know there isn't anything that the PPU community will accept, so it's KK's way or nothing.
The Spirit mod should have a warning of some kind. A bright raygun or psi spell flash would do it. The effect should not be delayed like the raptor antiheal though, as that would make it almost useless against PPUs.
I would much rather see something else done with PPUs other than making their lives hell, but I'm fresh out of ideas. Everything possible has been suggested and put down, so what's left to do?
Shadow Dancer
25-06-04, 19:24
In the time it takes an apu to debuff me, a spy can do it several times.
A spy can debuff you "several times" in 3 seconds? Wow, they must have quadrupled the rof of SH.
I don't see how this makes apus less worthwhile. Spies have a better ANTI-SHELTER! But apus have holy antibuff AND mega damage.
Where's the problem? To me they both seem equally powerful in terms of support.
E) You know there isn't anything that the PPU community will accept, so it's KK's way or nothing.
Exactly.
I don't think ppus should get a warning. If they do, it should be like a 1 second drug flash or something. Or half-second.
give SH a swirley so ppu's can see if they are likely to get hit buy it
Disturbed021
25-06-04, 21:10
I think that the spirit bullet should make an obvious loud noise when your shelter gets taken out by it. I'm not good with sound effects but I think ppl should know what I'm talking about. a big *POOF* to let you know you've been hit by a spirit bullet.
A ticker gives them waaaay too much time to recast imo. Might as well just have a voice saying "Your shelter is going to drop in 5 seconds, please prepare for shelter recast." "Your shelter is now going to drop in 2.5 seconds, please select shelter psi module from your quickbelt." "Your shelter is dropping, please recast shelter.....now." :rolleyes:
OK, a few points on the item itself
The SH is arguably the most rare rare weapon in the game... and spirit mods are rarer yet now you *can* use the Spirit mod on another sniper weapon (I've seen a B-2 with one on it!) but they can only be used on sniper weapons, which on the whole have horrible RoF, eat through ammo and encumber you pretty badly.
I don't have a vendetta against PPUs, but I've seen 4 or 5 capped and near-capped players fighting for 5 minutes without being able to drop a capped PPU, and none of these were bad players! PPUs are defensive masters, agreed, and I don't ever think that they should be easy to kill, but being easy to kill and not being impossible are different.
Besides, if you go down in a few hits as soon as your shelter goes away, your con setup sucks. My PPU with no buffs on (ambushed right out of GR) took 3 bursts from a CS to drop, and that's at rank 40. if I had blessed heal, a deflector, a haz 2 and a melee combatboost on It might have taken 5 or 6
Lucid Dream
25-06-04, 21:39
OK, a few points on the item itself
The SH is arguably the most rare rare weapon in the game... and spirit mods are rarer yet now you *can* use the Spirit mod on another sniper weapon (I've seen a B-2 with one on it!) but they can only be used on sniper weapons, which on the whole have horrible RoF, eat through ammo and encumber you pretty badly.
I don't have a vendetta against PPUs, but I've seen 4 or 5 capped and near-capped players fighting for 5 minutes without being able to drop a capped PPU, and none of these were bad players! PPUs are defensive masters, agreed, and I don't ever think that they should be easy to kill, but being easy to kill and not being impossible are different.
Besides, if you go down in a few hits as soon as your shelter goes away, your con setup sucks. My PPU with no buffs on (ambushed right out of GR) took 3 bursts from a CS to drop, and that's at rank 40. if I had blessed heal, a deflector, a haz 2 and a melee combatboost on It might have taken 5 or 6
You can mod a lower rifle with spirit, but the gun then ceases to fire at all.
did not know that, glad I didn't buy it
then again I'd never trust Moofausa (SP?) anyway
Where's the problem? To me they both seem equally powerful in terms of support.
I don't think ppus should get a warning. If they do, it should be like a 1 second drug flash or something. Or half-second.
Shadow i agree on most of this but since when has a spy been a debuffing/support class.
Spies do get awesome damage and at extremem range and stealth so they can act as socuts and assasins, unseen scouting and silent death this is their area of excellence.
APUs are close up damage and a true support class with debuff... as i said in my previous post SH Spirit shots should bypass Deflector not remove it and make vulnerable the target - be they PPU, APU Tank or PE or even a spy to everyone in the fight.
This makes SH Spirit mods should make snipers able to drop people solo - as is the snipers way. Not be support.
Spirit
(FYI i am an APU - ok)
Given the RoF on a SH, and based on a few observations of Spirit SHs in action I don't think that it's a massive problem, you simply can't keep a group of people debuffed at the same time, especially if a few of those are PEs self-casting. Not to mention that sniping in NC is currently fucked because of the clipping plane problem.
I think you said it perfectly, Snipers are supposed to be able to hunt solo very well, but given the proliferation of shelters and deflectors, it's hard for even a good sniper to do just that.
Clownst0pper
25-06-04, 22:29
[ edited ]
This makes SH Spirit mods should make snipers able to drop people solo - as is the snipers way. Not be support.
I agree the SH should be able to drop people in 2-3 hits max however it should not be allowed to be used in close range. So if your not fully zoomed in the rifle should do very little damage (at least to other runners).
Shadow Dancer
27-06-04, 00:06
did not know that, glad I didn't buy it
then again I'd never trust Moofausa (SP?) anyway
:lol:
A ticker gives them waaaay too much time to recast imo. Might as well just have a voice saying "Your shelter is going to drop in 5 seconds, please prepare for shelter recast." "Your shelter is now going to drop in 2.5 seconds, please select shelter psi module from your quickbelt." "Your shelter is dropping, please recast shelter.....now." :rolleyes:
hahaha
:lol:
Sad thing is, I get the impression some players DO want that. O_o
Spies do get awesome damage and at extremem range and stealth so they can act as socuts and assasins, unseen scouting and silent death this is their area of excellence.
They may get awesome damage, but apus do more. :p
"Extreme range" often isn't utilized to it's fullest due to clipping plane problems either.
Psycho Killa
27-06-04, 00:21
Please play a ppu for five minutes in a busy opfight before you tell me ppus dont need a warning at all.
Im not saying there should be a flashing disco ball with a warning sound that counts down or anything for crying outloud just a little something, even a sound affect that lets you know its come off.
I agree. They should either give one to me or nerf it.
You can sure split the people who've played a PPU in bigger op fights from the people who haven't.
They may get awesome damage, but apus do more. :p .
Agreed but this is close in damage(since the range nerf :) ) and so you are likely to take fire as you fire (i know i play APU as aprimary ok) Spies who do the job right dont.
"Extreme range" often isn't utilized to it's fullest due to clipping plane problems either.
We all know that but max clipping range is still better that 90% of the Op battle weaponry - Heavys, Pistols and PSi - only thing that usually has range to hit an intelligent sniper is another rifle user or sniper. Maybe the 1-2 droners you see on Pluto :/ So i meant extremme range in present NC conditions :P As such my point has validity.
More important who thinks spies should be a "support role" and not "ranged assasins" ??????? I dont care what spirit mod means to PPUs i care what they mean tio an entire 8-10 man OP team...... and also wwhy and how they change what snipers do!!
Spirit
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